Looking for some input, Not a flame war...

Anyway, recently it has been mentioned to me that less and less people attending seminars enjoy just looking at photos of dead fish. I have in the past used more photos of friends than of myself and I may eliminate dead fish pics all together..So, does it get old to you seeing the same guy just flash fish after fish in a program? or do you want to see that? Or would you rather leave the seminar with solid information you can put to use. Do you need to see the pics of the fish to trust the guy? when you see a show where the speaker just shows shot after shot of dead fish does it bug you? One other Question, as long as the info is solid , do you care if the guy is really entertaining or injects humor? or is the solid info all you care about! How many times do you want to hear about so and so's 30 or 40lber thats yesterdays news??

I have a few shows this year and I am looking to simply give the best info I can, I am fairly new at it still and just trying to put the best foot forward.

Any and all thoughts on this are apreciated...Thanks..Bill

Bill....I like to see the pics! We are after all fishermen and a big part of it is results! Pics of nice size slobs also drive home the point of the technique you may be talking about.....and the results!:btu:

I think you need a mix of fish pics and other stuff that is informative. A few pictures of 30 and 40 lbers surely will not hurt your presentation, especially for the new fishermen who have never caught large.

solid info with a little humor injected and pics of hotties with big fish, i don't mean larry.

I would assume the speaker has credibility in the surf fishing community if he is hired to give the seminar. I don't think showing a lot of pics will matter. I like speakers who are not afraid to go against the grain. Different techniques, new ideas and so on. I think one of your articles last year was like that. Catching when common belief says you shouldn't.

I like to have my picture taken with hotties!:heybaby:

I would assume the speaker has credibility in the surf fishing community if he is hired to give the seminar. I don't think showing a lot of pics will matter. I like speakers who are not afraid to go against the grain. Different techniques, new ideas and so on. I think one of your articles last year was like that. Catching when common belief says you shouldn't.

Thanks, I acually enjoy using pics of friends in the shows more than of myself, I think it shows some humility and that its not all about the speaker. In my case I figure people have had there full of seeing me with fish..anyway its interesting to see what the general thoughts are. I would assume and hope I have a bit of credability.

I think you need a mix of fish pics and other stuff that is informative. A few pictures of 30 and 40 lbers surely will not hurt your presentation, especially for the new fishermen who have never caught large.

Your picture is in all my shows!:btu:

Did somebody say hotties or is this post being hijacked? :bgi:

Bill I missed your m.s.b.a. talk, but i heard you did a great job. I think you should chat about your slow conversion to a bunker fisherman.:walk:

One of the best seminars I ever attended had very few pictures of dead fish or any fish for that matter. A lot of it had to do with reading the water, choosing and working the fly and moon phase. I like more discussion of technique and getting information to make me a better fisherman, I don't need or want 15 out of 30 pictures to be of a fish lying on the beach or on the rocks. Those do have their place, particularly as backup evidence that the presenters methods work, but pictures/videos clips (!) illustrating the topic I feel are more effective. That way people can see exactly what it is that is being discussed.
That said, I think a striking picture would be of a schoolie or just keeper sized fish right next to a slob. This could really bring home to people the difference between what most people catch on regular basis vs. a 40/50 pounder.
Good luck with all your presentatiosn this winter. I know you will do well!

Bill I sat in on a few of your presentations and the solid info seemed balanced with the amount of pictures shown. :kewl:

Bill, Haven't seen yours, my comments of seminars in general....Mix of good technique info and pics is nice in a seminar. I think pics of releasing fish as opposed to dead fish pleases more people. Seeing pics of different folks pics is also better instead of the same guy.

For the most part guys that know what they are doing might be bored by fish pics..
U seen one u seen em all..
That said..
I don't think they are the targeted audience..
Fish pics get the point across to many beginers..
They are also the ones whothat tend to gain the most from these seminars..
I attended one of ur seminars at the mass show..
I thought did a great job.
U an Steve where a good tandem//
A perfect blend of spoken info with the slide show..
It was a well thought out production..
The slides also help tremndously, people need pics..
Plus u came across as a much nicer person than the guy on the net..
:D
Only a smidge as pompus..
Thats a joke..

[QUOTE=tynan19;448963]I would assume the speaker has credibility in the surf fishing community if he is hired to give the seminar. QUOTE]
You know what they say about assuming.
I need LOTS of fish pics to give credibility, stories about 20yrs ago at so and so spot are what gets old. Pertinent info that can be put to use today, clear and consise.
I dont care about humour either way, its good if it comes naturally

I like Good Humor..

I would rather see clips on different water and how to properly fish it . How to fish a certain plug or bait . Reading the water and how to properly fish it , is paramount to catching big fish . More people need to learn properly the way to fish than to see more pictures . let em catch their own after learning from a seminar on how to catch . Its more rewarding to know you learned something from the presenter . It may be even more rewarding for the presenter to have someone who sat through one of their seminars to come back with a photo of a large fish they caught with the knowledge shared . I know I get bored of pictures of fish after fish after fish . they all begin to look the same .
pictures are nice of scantly clad woman holding fishing rods or anything for that matter !

humor has to be part of it or I wont even attend .

I remember a seminar from Melnyk a few yrs ago..
I was really interested to see what info this guy could pass along..
I was greatly dissapointed when it was a pic parade..

I have been to many excellent seminars that did not include 1 picture. It's not about visuals it's about the info. I could read playboy all day and night and it wont put a bunny in my bed when I get home.

Bill,
I like Chris's point, I find pictures of structure, points, rocks, bars which I can apply the knowledge to wrking an area. While I think this is very helpful, if you show pics of these "areas", people are going to cry spot burning. Whihc is missing the whole point

I personally don't see much value to a presentation of posed picks of guys holding dead fish. Doesn't really teach anything and does relatively little to grab the viewer. However, a presentation needs graphics to keep the attention of the audience.

Pics that include the fish and the habitat, like someone sliding a bass up to a rock, or dragging a fish out of the white water of the wash, can really enhance a presentation. Also, if the talk is on technique fishing eels, bunker, plugs, etc. it is cool to see the fish getting landed with the bait in its jaw.

Overall, I think like any photo, the more depth there is in the pic, the more value it has to the talk and the more compelling it can be to the audience.

A pic of a guy in a parking lot holding a fish has little artistic value to begin with and has less inherent value to the overall visual quality of the presentation. Each pic during the presentation should have a particular purpose. As an aside, I think if there is a slide show at the end of the presentation or something it doesn't matter so much.

Bill, when I do a seminar I do what the word means. I talk to and inform the people attending. I do not do slide shows or power points for the most part. I have at a few where the crowds were large like at the Mass Maritime for example but it is the spoken word mostly.
I do bring a few props. I find people really like to see what I use for gear and lures and I show them. I go to seminars to learmn something not view pics or here how many we caught this night or that. I want to know the reason you caught this many or that many that's where the real value of the talk is.

One thing I have learned is that there are so many ways to trick a bass and so many things to learn that to make the bulk of your talk a picture show is really not fair to the crowd. People want to learn how to be better fishermen and fisherwomen. Tell them how to do it, not where and when but how and they can do the rest.

Put up a picture/story board with photos as a backdrop/display and invite the crowd to come up to introduce themselves after and ask a few more questions and take a close look at your stuff. They love that and so do I. And lastly don't let a single criticism detract you from realizing that the majority of folks enjoyed your talk.

Hope this helps:cheers:

I'll be at your presentation tonight and consider myself to be past the beginner status but nowhere near good/great. I have only been to a few seminars. Why not some pics of LIVE fish, just before they are released? I don't mind seeing dead fish just as long as you tell me they fed your family and friends. As a plug-ho in training I also want to see pics or video (Laptew?) of lures in action and if possible fish hitting lures. That would be most valuable. And yes, I do want to be entertained so if you can make me laugh then all the better the evening. Looking forward to this evening.

spin

pictures and well-thought out diagrams are extremely helpful.

people have a natural tendency to tune out a monologue.

each picture/diagram should have a point, so i would use them sparingly.

solid info with a little humor injected and pics of hotties with big fish, i don't mean larry. A little humor is always good:cheers:

unfortunatly with a time limit of 15-20 minutes apiece tonight, I dont think there will be any humor at least on my part

photos that aid in explaining techniques, tackle, structure, how to's

entertaining stories that drive home a particular point or situation

show & tell of actual gear that you bring to the seminar

humorous photos, like the one of you hugging those two fish on the couch

humorous photos, like the one of you hugging those two fish on the couch Ok if this pic exists it's a definite show opener..:biglaugh:

Eel Man in a Thong Fishing for Schoolies..........

john
I knew there was sumptin rong wit ya . a man in a thong is just wrong !

except maybe clam man . he looks good no matter what he is or isnt wearing . hey buddy you working this end of the bar "hikup" I need a refill .

I'ld like to see graphs of oods and percentages. These graph's could be based on tides, time of year, lure color ect. ect. Personely I like seeing pics heavy rods laid over and how you got them that way. I also like seeing pics of mintues old bass especialy dureing daylight hours.
Humor thing...I sat in on Al Gags one time and he had the dryest sense of humor. I asure you I wasn't the only one saying this and if I hadn't drove 45min I woulda walked out, no bs. You wanna throw in a joke or two thats one thing but if you wanna do comedy theres a time and place for that.

[QUOTE=tynan19;448963]I would assume the speaker has credibility in the surf fishing community if he is hired to give the seminar. QUOTE]
You know what they say about assuming.
I need LOTS of fish pics to give credibility, stories about 20yrs ago at so and so spot are what gets old. Pertinent info that can be put to use today, clear and consise.
I dont care about humour either way, its good if it comes naturally

I agree with the old, old pictures. I'm 25 and when I see all these shots of guys with 15 30-40lb laided out on the beach from 1978. I don't know if I should shake there hand or walk away for obvious reasons. I think that a semiar like any type of information or entertainment has to draw people in and payoff with good visuals so you explain a techinque for a few minutes and then show a nice bass you pulled out using this techinque with in the past 5 years that says to me wow this guy knows what hes talking about (and not reliving the glory days).

i like to see pics of big fish but there should be pics of a stretch of water and explaine where and why you should present eel or lure.you can take a pic of a spot and not burn it.

Thanks for asking what might be interesting to see... IMHO diagrams of structure- not necessarily specific structure, but maybe idealized structure in such a way that it provides a good indicator of how an expert visualizes the underwater topography and where fish would be holding in relationship to current, etc.

The dead fish photo is the end of the road, but doesn't help the person sitting in the seminar to understand how you, the expert presenter, went through your thought process to catch that fish. If you have a limited amt. of time and visuals that you can show, then it would be great if each one counted in terms of illustrating your thought process. And then, at the end of the show...show the picture of the result of that thought process...

If you look across the room at a seminar, figure about half the people have been fishing for five years or less. The other half are very experienced and would be happy learning just one or two things - or maybe they have come specifically to ask a speaker a couple of questions.
This experience disparity among the audience means it's going to be very hard to do a presentation that is all things to all people. A picture of a dead fish does lend credibility to some, while others find it boastful.
As anyone who has ever looked out over a room full of surly fisherman knows - it's tough crowd - and a lot of work for very little money. My hat's off to you for doing it.

all knowledge that we have in our brains.....even words are stored as pictures that we associate with that definition. The word apple, we see as a picture of the word apple...but also we see a 3 dimensional apple in our minds eye.

So pictures are very important in any presentation
on the one hand.... but with the forementioned said....a still picture must be worth a thousand words and be informative like how things are rigged..(done) and then left there to burn that image (technique) into our brain.

With the popularity of youtube....short video's (ie moving pictures)
are becoming more of the standard method of demonstration of something that cannot be demonstrated very well in a room via words or it would leave to much to the imagination.

the verification pictures of the Big Bass being caught should be
less during the presentation and more around the question and answer period following. People also want to imagine themselves
catching 30-40lb fish so some pictures are required to fuel their
imagination without the viewer being over saturated.:btu:

Bill,

I want a map on that screen showing all your fishing spots, all mine, all Ebens, Piemma's etc. :hihi:

No, really no,

I think looking at things from a "fishing sense" angle is the way to go. Teach how instead of where. Talk about learning the wind and tide, how they work together with bait patterns. How to stay with a school of fish from night to night. Stuff like that.

I want maps and spots. I also want to know where to park.

Other than that , I guess babes in bikini's bending over to lip a bass is next most importatnt on my list. :) :devil:

Continuing on the discussion, the real challenge is to try to appeal to audiences with mixed experience levels.

I do remember, however, a terrific podcast I heard- it was an interview with Norm Albiston, who is a professor of fly fishing at a university out west (the name escapes me), that did an excellent job of delivering something for everyone. The podcast laid out his basic approach to teaching fishing, which was to break down fishing into what he called "The Five Things You Can Change" when fishing, which were: 1) the depth you fish at; 2) the movement or lack thereof that you impart to the lure or bait; 3) the kind of lure you choose; 4) the location you have selected to fish at; and 5) the time that you choose to fish at, whether that be time of year or time of day or night.

In addition, he broke down his discussion of "location" into what he called "The Three C's" those being: a) current; b) cover; and c) cusine.

It was an excellent example of how to deliver a lecture that was both sophisticated and simple at the same time- and it provides a good insight into how one particular expert angler approaches the water.

Looking for some input, Not a flame war...

Anyway, recently it has been mentioned to me that less and less people attending seminars enjoy just looking at photos of dead fish. I have in the past used more photos of friends than of myself and I may eliminate dead fish pics all together..
So, does it get old to you seeing the same guy just flash fish after fish in a program? yes
or
do you want to see that? no
Or
would you rather leave the seminar with solid information you can put to use. yes
Do you need to see the pics of the fish to trust the guy? no
when you see a show where the speaker just shows shot after shot of dead fish does it bug you? yes in excess
One other Question, as long as the info is solid , do you care if the guy is really entertaining or injects humor? no, at the beginning to break ice or end
or
is the solid info all you care about! yes
How many times do you want to hear about so and so's 30 or 40lber thats yesterdays news?? yesterday yes, 30 years ago no.

I have a few shows this year and I am looking to simply give the best info I can, I am fairly new at it still and just trying to put the best foot forward. I'm sure you will.

Any and all thoughts on this are apreciated...Thanks..Bill


Place the audience like there in your shoes and say what you know best.

[QUOTE=Krispy;448978]

I agree with the old, old pictures. I'm 25 and when I see all these shots of guys with 15 30-40lb laided out on the beach from 1978. I don't know if I should shake there hand or walk away for obvious reasons. I think that a semiar like any type of information or entertainment has to draw people in and payoff with good visuals so you explain a techinque for a few minutes and then show a nice bass you pulled out using this techinque with in the past 5 years that says to me wow this guy knows what hes talking about (and not reliving the glory days).


First of all, thanks for the insult, it wasn't appreciated by any of us here who lived the "glory days" of which I was and still are, proud to have been a part of. Your statement in this above quote shows more ignorance than knowledge, it's obvious your still a kid who knows all in your humble opinion. Saying things like "shake your hand or walk away for obvious reasons" is another slap in the face to those of us "old guys" who at the time, legally and through hard work put fish on the beach to sell. Science, which we rely on these days for things like input and direction on quotas and sustainable yield, was relied on by us just as much back then. There was no hard data that the end was near, some, like Bob Pond, had theories based on annecdotal eveidence, but no hard scientific fact to tell us that even though we were up to our ass in big bass the shoe was about to drop. Do you think putting 600 pounds or a 1000 pounds on the beach in one night was done by guys who did not know how to fish or if put in that situation again in the present days if the opportunity arose, wouldn't have the know how because that was then and this is now? What was looked on then as an admirable way to make a living or to supplement a challenging income should now be looked upon with scorn? How dare you! What makes you so holy? Do you think we would have done what we did if we knew then what we know now?

What is so different now than what we faced in 1978? Has the bass changed genetically to be more wary or intelligent than they were then? Someday my young friend you might see a change in your opinion but for now, as one who has been catching bass for 40 years plus and know and have known many of the greats of the old guard,the only thing shown by your post here is the vast amount of ignorance you have of your sport, it's history and the relevance of past days to where we are right now.:rtfm:

You have a lot of growing up to do, get on with it before you post such ridiculous, insulting and ignorant statements again.

Steve Shiraka
Cape Cod Ma
Striper Fisherman

Tactics and technique, structure, bait patterns and how to recognize them, how to find fish. Things to make the listener think, sennse of humor, yeah, like had been said, as long as it's not forced. keep it to the point, and interesting... fish pics, and the past.. ya gotta have history.. here is a little from fall of 78 ;).. (BTW Flap, I think you know this guy.. 34 fish from the beach, 1000 pounds.. he has the slip. :D)
Not a fan of pictures and cameras,now, but, dig history.. love pics from the good old days.. but not today.. if that makes sense.

From the questions I see on the websites.I think alot of seminarian anglers could benitfit from a seminar on the rudimenatry things..
Gear,rods reels,line,(mono, braid,why they are diff.) leaders..Bait fishing bait selection,,lure selection as pertaining to prevelant forage,an migratory baitfish an thier patterns...
KNOTS
I think u could do a half hr on knots..
Seems simple to most but u would be surprised how many can't snell, palomar,uni to uni,clinch loop knot,albright..the list is endless.where an when to apply each..
I think most beginners lose quality fish beacuse they have Less than zero chance to begin with..
Surfcasting 101..
Be ginners would be glued to ur every word..'
Great for kids..
There's a market there..say 8-13 yr olds..
U know thats how the target sales in many other forms of entertainment..I know u know this if u have kids..

I want chix in bikinis.
Ask Dadbomba about his '78&'79 pix, crazy.
Later,
Rick

Bill, pic & humor are very good to have. EBA presentation while excellent was way tooooooo short.

I'd like to see your normal 45-60 presentation next time your doing one.

Or I'd like to just see you catchin'

pic or any kind are good motivation for those still lookin to catch one of those 50's.

Bill,

I want a map on that screen showing all your fishing spots, all mine, all Ebens, Piemma's etc. :hihi:





:skulz: :skulz: :skulz:

I'd use some dramatic shore photos and be very specific on where the fish will be. Use it as a teaching opportunity so people learn rather than are just given some splash.

A few big fish pics are great, but be sure to tell a story. Use drama...etc...

Bill, I'm a professional presenter. If you want I'd be happy to help.

-spence

Bill, I'm a professional presenter. If you want I'd be happy to help.

-spence

I`ll take some presents :)

Old Chinese proverb says it all:

Tell me, I will forget

Show me, I may remember

Involve me, and I will understand.

Bill, pic & humor are very good to have. EBA presentation while excellent was way tooooooo short.

I'd like to see your normal 45-60 presentation next time your doing one.

Or I'd like to just see you catchin'

pic or any kind are good motivation for those still lookin to catch one of those 50's.

I know it was short however, we were under strict time restraints and I acually went OVER my time a bit so, it was not of my choice.

And soon I am off to the boat show to watch Jim Whites show!

Do you think we would have done what we did if we knew then what we know now?
Steve Shiraka
Cape Cod Ma
Striper Fisherman

I started fishing down the cape with my dad in 78. I was very young but do recall the fish we would catch stripers, blues & flounder.. Do I regret the fish we kept? no I dont. Even though we were "having fun catching" we filleted and ate the fish we kept and yes we even sold some one year. It was a different time and place. Gone too are the days when you could drive RP and every one of the entire twenty people you saw out there waved and said hello. Anyway keeping those fish fed the family all year. It is no worse than the person that buys their fish in the store which is in fact worse if you want to add up the pounds of "bycatch" it took to put one pound of fish in the display case!!!! In fact if you fish at all you have NO RIGHT to judge someone for keeping legal fish.




Anyway #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& I am sorry I hijacked your thread.

#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&,,, i think you need some pics,,, however the way you used them to show the result of your style of fishing is needed,,, fishermen do need to see the result pics,,, that is the nature of our sport,,, we all need to practice conservation but we all need to see results at any seminar,,,

One of the best seminars I ever attended had very few pictures of dead fish or any fish for that matter. A lot of it had to do with reading the water, choosing and working the fly and moon phase. I like more discussion of technique and getting information to make me a better fisherman, I don't need or want 15 out of 30 pictures to be of a fish lying on the beach or on the rocks. Those do have their place, particularly as backup evidence that the presenters methods work, but pictures/videos clips (!) illustrating the topic I feel are more effective. That way people can see exactly what it is that is being discussed.
That said, I think a striking picture would be of a schoolie or just keeper sized fish right next to a slob. This could really bring home to people the difference between what most people catch on regular basis vs. a 40/50 pounder.
Good luck with all your presentatiosn this winter. I know you will do well!

This is exactly what I would say. I do not need to see repetitive pictures of fish - the best seminars I have been to lead you to be a better fisherman, not reinforce that the speaker can catch fish.

Steve Mckenna gives a good one.. maybe you could learn something from him :hihi:
just kidding, just make it fun, keep the crowds attention and give out what you know best... EEEEELS and how to fish them.

I agree with TT. I have seen a few different versions of your show and have found them all, humble, VERY informative and well done. Honestly, I wouldn't really change anything. Nice work. So....uh....when are you going to work at the Edge? LOL.