will stripers ever be listed as gamefish?if comm fishing for stripers stoped would it make a big diffrence in the population?

That's definitely a hard and loaded question ... what's your objective with this question?

Here's my answer - I think the bait stocks and quality of the estuaries makes a much bigger impact on fish stocks than the commercial fishery ...

... many bait stocks are impacted by commercial fishing and often not even U.S. based vessels ...

... but coastal development overall is causing the degradation of the estuaries and thus declines in certain bait stocks ... so it's much more complicated and involved in just the commercial fishery ...

... as for stocks of stripers ... even recreational harvest impacts stocks, but I'm not going to tell some guy fishing on the beach or in his boat that he shouldn't keep a fish or two, it's his/her right

if comm fishing for stripers stoped would it make a big diffrence in the population?

Commercials have a strict quota of somewhere around 6-7 million pounds a year, in the states that have a commercial fishery. It's pretty strictly monitored. That's the leagal harvest. Making bass a gamefish won't stop any illegal harvesting that's still going on.

The recreational harvest is estimated at somewhere around 28-30 million pounds a year. No one really knows for sure--it could be higher.

one cure to the unknown rec. fishing poundage would be to have a saltwater lisc[very low fee of course] and have rec's report their catches/landings as comm. do.And if you don't fill out the catch report, no lisc. for the next year... .It'd give everyone better idea of just what is taken every year in ALL states.

Making Striped Bass a gamefish will not benefit the bass as well as fixing the diseases that plague them and improving the forage that feeds them. If we reduced the fish "take" by 25% (comm) we may have more disease and more hungry fish. If we transfer quota we're just being a little greedy. Not saying that managing bass isn't a big issues, it is, and lots could be done to improve. But the main issues we seem to always skip by, forage & disease

(Except if their radioactive from the Hudson...)

John, your my hero. :cheers: If only everyone else got it. Too many fish without the proper nutritional resources to sustain it leads to too many deseased fish and a failing population no matter how well protected. Save the bait and you save the bass. We need massive schools of menhaden to return to past historical levels and the river herring to make a complete comeback.

and we need to kill a few seals too. hehehehehe

John and Flap are right on point. Get rid of the Pogy boats and you will not believe how many 40 pound bass there will be. It's all a function of forage. Give them more high protein food and they get bigger and there will be more of them.

Someone called me yesterday and said they think that Stripers are on the decline again. It's simply untrue. They location of the fish (at least in RI) has changed. We had more 30 pound fish in Upper Narr Bay last year than in the last 20 years. The reason? The Pogy boats didn't get all of the Bunker so the Bass stayed in the Upper Bay where the FOOD was!!
Real simple when you think about it. The Bass go where the best and most abundant food is....just like any other wild animal.

There are too many bass right now for the amount of baitfish available. The equation is out of balance.You want more bass to catch? There needs to be enough food to support the existing population first. ......but powerful people are making MONEY off of the menhaden. Maybe I am just getting old and cynical but I don't see them giving it up.

If you think that the Ark bait operation in the bay is impacting overall menhaden stocks, you need to look at the numbers. Ark bait's landings aren't a small fraction of what Omega Protein take out of the ecosystem.

Since we like to eat bass, I kept about 8 fish out of the Canal this year. Mostly teen fish in the 32-38" range, but also one 25# and one 33#.

All but two had nothing inside them, including both the 25 and 33. The 33 was almost 47" long, which not too long ago would have likely weighed in the high 30s or even low 40s.

One of the teen fish had 3 chicken lobsters.

One of the others was still catrrying her roe, but had nothing in her stomach.

There is definitely a shortage of forage.

Bunker are a high-lipid diet, which supplies bass with a lot of energy, fattens them up for migration, and keeps them healthy. Other forage such as shrimp, crabs, etc. are leaner, not the same. Reducing the menhaden fishery will benefit striper fishing as well as the health of Chesapeake bay. Menhaden are also filter feeders, keep population of algae (including bad ones- red tide,...) down, cleaner waters.

Alot of excellent points here,,I for one believe the biggest concern is in fact that lack of forage or menhaden along the entire east coast.
Although there have been some possitive signs just this past year here in NJ in regards to that fact... Conitinued efforts to protect the baitfish is key to the healthy growth of our current fish stocks...

I think we are on the right track here but there has to be more of a joint effort between both the RECS and COMMS to continue any population growth of the Striped Bass...
I am not calling for a complete Banning of Commercial Harvest along all of our shores but maybe some better regulations on the commercial groups to protect both the mature bass and the netting of the young bass in nursery areas...
And within the commercial sector we need better inforcement and a a increase off fines and penalties, to elimate any illegal activity that seems to happen year after year...

Alot of excellent points here,,I for one believe the biggest concern is in fact that lack of forage or menhaden along the entire east coast.
Although there have been some possitive signs just this past year here in NJ in regards to that fact... Conitinued efforts to protect the baitfish is key to the healthy growth of our current fish stocks...

I think we are on the right track here but there has to be more of a joint effort between both the RECS and COMMS to continue any population growth of the Striped Bass...
I am not calling for a complete Banning of Commercial Harvest along all of our shores but maybe some better regulations on the commercial groups to protect both the mature bass and the netting of the young bass in nursery areas...
And within the commercial sector we need better inforcement and a a increase off fines and penalties, to elimate any illegal activity that seems to happen year after year...


Personally, I agree with most of this, a reduction in commercial bass fishing, especially where it pertains to the size classes, large and small, and I also agree that a reduction in the recreational take would be good but neither is makes any sense when you break it down if we can't do a better job of feeding these fish.

We have all of these forage species crashing, look at Herring in the northeast for the past 5-8 years. Want to go a long way towards fixing bass? Make herring and pogies a gamefish.

great point John, but it will never happen. Not as long as Omega makes millions on harvesting Menhaden

Want to go a long way towards fixing bass? Make herring and pogies a gamefish.


I like that John :btu:

Taken from the Omega Protein web site:

"Accounting for over 70% of the menhaden caught in the United States and over 15% of the nation's total seafood landings. Omega Protein is one of the largest fishing companies in the United States in terms of tonnage, and one of the largest fish meal companies in the world."

Damn that's ridiculous, you gotta think they have a lot of influence in the legislatrue. So what do we do? We take the bastages down that's what we do!

"Salty Dogs Of War":nailem: :D

Damn that's ridiculous, you gotta think they have a lot of influence in the legislatrue. So what do we do? We take the bastages down that's what we do!

Once Dubya leaves office it might happen - remember Daddy is connected to Omega :rolleyes:

ps - no - I'm NOT a liberal - or a Repub for that matter :smokin:

Once Dubya leaves office it might happen - remember Daddy is connected to Omega :rolleyes:
IIRC there are some Kerry or Kenedy people on that board too :wall:

ps - no - I'm NOT a liberal - or a Repub for that matter :smokin:
Mee Tooo

If we would could mobilize those groups whose main focus is the passage of federal bill HR#2059 to exert that same degree of effort to design and write legislation aimed at the protection of the basic forage of Striped Bass it would be a huge step towards a solution. Undersized, starving Gamefish aren't much good to anyone.

interesting John never heard that - not that I doubt it.

Omega has to go - someone has to shut them down.

The fishing clubs from Maine to New Jersey must have tens of thousands of members.
The leaders of these clubs can come up with a mutual organized strategic plan that involves it members to rally to voice the issues that are important to the bass fishery. The media would more likely be there to create more exposure.

thanks for enlihtening me.i ges we need pogies forever not stripers forever.

I will say that in 2006 menhadden (@ least in CT) where everywhere. Hope 2007 has the same results. I for one forgot what they looked like....it was a great site seeing them thick in the rivers and inlets.

Ice

The Hudson and Chesappeake are toxic resulting in impaired breeding of bass and bait, and poor juvenile bass nutrition. (Someone posted a great article here last year that suggested the reason bass, historically finfish predators, have adapted to grubbing and bottom feeding is that they spend their first few years feeding in estuaries where you couldn't see a baitfish even if there was one left.)

You have commercial "protein" interests vacuuming the remaining bait up out of the oceans at obscene rates, just as the draggers are turning the bottoms into wastelands. Once the bait (including lobster, and crab) population is gone what hope is there up the food chain? Not likely that the bass will be the "last man standing" when everything else in the ocean is gone.

Can't put it on the commercial guys, we take a lot of fish ourselves. Can't put it on either political party as both have their hands out to the same commercial interests under our current system of "government for sale."

Don't have a solution. Though I'll tell you I think long and hard before keeping the few fish I do...

maybe iam wrong if so please correct me but i dont see how the hudson and chesappeake are more toxic today than they were 30 years ago when mills were dumping toxins in the water daily.

The fishing clubs from Maine to New Jersey must have tens of thousands of members.
The leaders of these clubs can come up with a mutual organized strategic plan that involves it members to rally to voice the issues that are important to the bass fishery. The media would more likely be there to create more exposure.


this is a good point and maybe that would have an effect, but everybody has their own interests and opinions, trying to get 10,000 fisherman to agree that the main threat to striped bass is the bait fish problem is a difficult enough task, let alone getting them to moblize on the issue. I mean, we can't all agree how to hook a damn eel!
The fact of the matter is that companies like Omega have such a vested interest in what they do that I'm sure they will fight to the death to protect it. I'm not saying there is not a way.
It's just when it comes down to it, I think we just don't "care" as much.

What about the hundreds of peope who work for them and their suppiers in VA where you either work for Omega or you don't work?

The state of VA was willing to take on the ASMFC this past season when they wanted to cut Omega's TAL back.

maybe iam wrong if so please correct me but i dont see how the hudson and chesappeake are more toxic today than they were 30 years ago when mills were dumping toxins in the water daily.

GE Plastics may not be dumping PCBs any more and many of the more visible manufacturing offenders have been shut down, but runoff of overused petroleum-based fertilizers remains a huge and growing problem. (If 100 gallons per acre is recommended 200 must be better, right?) Particularly in the Chesapeake. PCBs don't kill bass and bait (though they kill those of us who eat the bass) fertilizers do.

Industrial agriculture is a much more widespread and less visible problem than the manufacturers whose smokestacks and outflows make a killer photo op to rally public opposition. Corporate agriculture is heavily subsidized by us, is allowed to pretty much write public policy, and operates largely below the radar.

Sorry if I'm getting off-topic and political, but it's a huge threat to the fishery.

MakoMike is right they will just wrap them selves in the johnny apple image of, we are providing jobs. This is the same approch the New England fisherman has been using for years.

thanks gofish

MakoMike is right they will just wrap them selves in the johnny apple image of, we are providing jobs. This is the same approch the New England fisherman has been using for years.

Reminds me of a great cartoon years ago. (I think it had something to do with spotted owls, not bass.)

First frame: Uncle Sam stopping a logger from cutting down the last tree in the forest.

Second frame: Logger cries "jobs will be lost if you don't let me cut down the last tree!"

Third frame: Uncle Sam steps aside and logger cuts down last tree in forest.

Final frame: With no more trees, unemployed logger blames Uncle Sam and holds out hand for public assistance.

The Feds will step aside and let them rape the resource until it's gone. It's easier than doing what's right, and they'll be long gone (and in a lucrative lobbying career) before the fish are.

My brother lives by Chesapeake Bay and says the problem of pollution in the bay is from the fertilizers running iinto the bay. Everybody down there knows it, but nothing is done about it due to the "Political Climate". Also with Omega fishing 24/7 yerar round for the menhaden, the stripers are doomed from the beginning. Overfishing for stripers is only a small part of the problem.