what do you guys suggest for sealer and primer?

I'm still using Minwax woodhardner ( I'm looking for something less deadly) and BIN spray primer.

I like rustoilem painter's touch sandable primer.

I've tried red-label bin in both the spray can and the brush can. I found the spray can left a fussy texture on the wood and took awhile to sand clean. brush was much better-no fuzzy texture, but still took time to sand them down. The rust-oliem went on great and only needed a light sand.

For a sealer i do like Karl 60/40 BOILED linseed oil/mineral spirits.

60/40 to seal with and Benjamin Moore fresh start to prime,but after finishing Taggers homework :)i think i'll switch to the Bin spray,as it leaves a smoother finish imho.

How long in the linseed/min spirits soak?

Rocketman, i found after dipping one piece for 1 min and another overniht the penetration was the same in red cedar after cutting them in half. Clear through:D

Karl what wood to you use most?

Karl i'm sure the harder woods don't absorb the 60/40 as quickly as the red cedar. Sounds like the overnight would be the best.
Thanks for the tip about the room temp means their dry.:)

poplar makes good kindling :)

I use Alaskan Yellow cedar and don't bother to seal it, it works for me, they are just plugs afterall.

Originally posted by Slipknot


I use Alaskan Yellow cedar and don't bother to seal it, it works for me, they are just plugs afterall. [/B]

Slip,you can send me all the "just plugs"that you engineer anytime.:D

:D :D

poplar has worked for me in the past. Did some poppers and swimmers from it. Gotta seal it well. Have not used it in a while. AYC has a better action, paint holds better, and it is more resistant to rot and such. Depends on the action you want. If poplar works for you, go for it.

I still seal the AYC. 30 second bath in Boiled linseed/mineral spirits mix. I went back and forth on sealing the AYC for a while. Found that sealing it does help, more so with the smaller freshie stuff that I do. Unsealed, it will aborb some water. This will affect the plug's action and can compromise the paint/clear coat. Bear in mind that it takes a while for this to happen. However, in many cases I'll have the same plug on for 5-8 hours. I have had unsealed AYC plugs that swam on top just fine at the beginning of the night just fine. Towards the end of the night, had a hard time keeping them on top. Not a problem if they have been sealed.

My $0.02.

Jigman

Good idea Jigman
no wonder I use plastic plugs:eek: :smash: :smash:

Salty, so where does that leave us?:huh:I already stopped using Waterlox because of your odor post:D What do you reccomend?:)

THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP. :btu:

Slip, Plastic plugs :shocked: Heathen :smash:

Wood = :jump: Lead = :jump: :happy:

:D

Jigman

Jigster,wood is good,but plastic can be fantastic!:boots::as:

Originally posted by justplugit
Salty, so where does that leave us?:huh:I already stopped using Waterlox because of your odor post:D What do you reccomend?:)


I wouldn't stop using waterlox. I personally think it's a great product. I have had ZERO problems with it.

Also, there are several reputable builders in your neck of the woods that have been using it for years.

That's my $.02

Bernzy

I'd like to hear what Habs has to say about this topic.

Salty,are you saying that a full alkyd primer will seal and prime if you are willing to take the time for it to dry?
Thanks to all you guys for keepin me learnin:D

Makes sense.WE are always in such a hurry and the paint companies are trying to appease us.
We live in a Quick Dry society.:laughs:

Some seem to change their finishes and their waterproofing ways like I change underwear........ And some seem to be on the Quest in Search of the HOLY GRAIL of Finishes.....Which I'm not even sure is there. You are dealing with a piece of wood that is submerged in water. Some things work better than others, some finishes last longer than others. BUT no one is going to make a piece of wood that lasts for ETERNITY. First of all, all wood should be sealed, no matter what you're using. This will prolong the life of your plug by sealing properly with whatever you're using; OILS or etc. It's up to you.... It's all in the APPLICATION AND CHEMICAL WARFARE, WITH PROPER PAINTS AND PRIMERS. AND PROPER DRYING TIMES. I've been at this a long time. Take it for what it's worth: OILS DO PRESERVE your wood. It seems to me that alot of you guys when using cedars, when going over it with water based paints, the oils bleeds out. This is your problem. DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND EXPERIMENT. Water based in water is a no no. It does not LAST. Oil based in water, REPELS. Let's talk about tung oil. PURE TUNG OIL is a finishing product that provides a tough, flexible coating. Tung Oil had been know for centuries to the Chinese since the 13th century. Tung Oil received wide application in China in the building trades, as a treatment for both wood and stone structures; and in marine trades AS A PRESERVATIVE and WATER REPELLANT on wooden boats. Tung oil is favored over linseed oil because it is faster drying. PURE TUNG OIL is WATER and ALKALI RESISTANT. It resists marring and penatrates well. This is just one of many things I've found out through trial and error. Good luck. Don't be afraid to experiment. THIS CONCLUDES OUR LESSON FOR TODAY. :)

Originally posted by #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&
Bernzy you can use what you want, but I am telling you this..... BOTH linseed oil and waterlox/tung oil act as a release agent to the primer layer when a wood plug body is dipped in it. The engineer I have been PAYING predicted this and the others we have consulted with have advised the same thing. Adhesion tests have proved it on wood sealed for 1 week or 2 months. Not only with bin products but with many other primers on the market today. Am I an expert in it or know it all? Nope that's what I'm paying this guy for right now. To develop a completely bullet proof and consistent finish. And the only way you can do it with any of these products is to use a full alkyd primer, that is the only thing we've done so far that will give us a solid base to expand the paint layer on. Problem with oil primer is length of time to dry especially in the humid weather lately. 3-4 days is what we've found for proper dry and adhesion. Suxx to tie up paint racks for 4 days of dry time....

Salty,

I am just saying what works for me. I have had ZERO problems with the primer I use, adhering to a Tung Oil sealed plug. I CANNOT scratch the primer off of a sealed plug. I let the tung oil dry for 12 hours then prime. No problems! You are correct however, with the humidity issue. It can affect the drying/curing time of many sealers, primers and finishes. My shop is in a controlled environment so I don't have to deal with humidity problems.

I'm not using what I want, but rather what I need to build plugs that are durable.

With the money I've spent trying various products, I may have been better off hiring someone to figure it out for me.

I've found the combo I've been looking for through testing and trial and error.

Bernzy

The info I gave is my opinion, BASED on my years of Trial and Error....................Someone asked What I think and Only answered the Question............................. :D

Habs, thanks for the reply. :)

HabHole:happy:

You guys are all plug sissys.

Got Tin !:D

JHabs;
Great write up. Just what a beginner needs to read!:claps:

I could use a Good Tin & Tonic later.......................

holeHab

YES Almighty P- TOWN GUIDE..........:bshake: :bshake: ....... :wave:

Good info guys. Thanks for sharing :kewl:

Oh, and I have found that lead does not need to be sealed :D

Jigman

great information thanks guys, very helpful topic.

Originally posted by JHABS
YES Almighty P- TOWN GUIDE..........:bshake: :bshake: ....... :wave:
Nice Bum Boy:laughs: back to work for You:smash:

tid bit more....urethane is a blend of different tung oils with a splash of hardner mixed in.

just make sure it's exterior/marine urethane.

don't use poly it's not the same.

soak for a half hour,,,,let drip for a few min's, then wipe the outside off an hang over nite.

lightly sand to get rid of any fuzzies,,blow the dust off, or wipe your plug down with wil-bond[has bonding agents to let the paint stick better] then prime with exterior OIL paint.

For those using Tung Oil,do you dilute,dip or brush on and how long do you dry? Thanks:)

Dip and dry overnight.

Bernzy

Bernzy thanks.How long do you keep them emersed?

salty,

you sure that your are letting that waterlox dry in heat WITH good air flow ?

that is the key to drying it. we paint floors over it but they ain't no plug :)

Originally posted by JHABS
Some seem to change their finishes and their waterproofing ways like I change underwear........ And some seem to be on the Quest in Search of the HOLY GRAIL of Finishes.....Which I'm not even sure is there. You are dealing with a piece of wood that is submerged in water. Some things work better than others, some finishes last longer than others. BUT no one is going to make a piece of wood that lasts for ETERNITY. First of all, all wood should be sealed, no matter what you're using. This will prolong the life of your plug by sealing properly with whatever you're using; OILS or etc. It's up to you.... It's all in the APPLICATION AND CHEMICAL WARFARE, WITH PROPER PAINTS AND PRIMERS. AND PROPER DRYING TIMES. I've been at this a long time. Take it for what it's worth: OILS DO PRESERVE your wood. It seems to me that alot of you guys when using cedars, when going over it with water based paints, the oils bleeds out. This is your problem. DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND EXPERIMENT. Water based in water is a no no. It does not LAST. Oil based in water, REPELS. Let's talk about tung oil. PURE TUNG OIL is a finishing product that provides a tough, flexible coating. Tung Oil had been know for centuries to the Chinese since the 13th century. Tung Oil received wide application in China in the building trades, as a treatment for both wood and stone structures; and in marine trades AS A PRESERVATIVE and WATER REPELLANT on wooden boats. Tung oil is favored over linseed oil because it is faster drying. PURE TUNG OIL is WATER and ALKALI RESISTANT. It resists marring and penatrates well. This is just one of many things I've found out through trial and error. Good luck. Don't be afraid to experiment. THIS CONCLUDES OUR LESSON FOR TODAY. :)

Very good info John, Thanks :D
I know how long it takes you to type, glad your puter didn't crash in the middle of that ;)

I've had problems with the waterlox, but good results with the boiled linseed oil. With the waterlox, the paint / primer did not adhere to the waterlox. After a few nights of fishing, the paint peeled off. The linseed oil sealed plugs have not had any problems. Even after the hook drags and bluefish have chewed the finish off on spots of the plug, I haven't seen any grain raising
or other problems associated with water absorption.
The first few I did with the boiled linseed, I used it straight, no mineral spirits. The linseed bled through the paint after a week of drying on some of them. It hasn't had any adverse effect on the plug other than it looks awful. I haven't had a problem with bleeding through since I've cut the linseed with mineral spirits.

AdamR, Your doing your HOMEWORK............... :btu:

I take the raw plug prime wait bout 47 seconds then paint wait one day then epoxy finish one more day an its catchin fish.i got no time to wait.an I don't care if it explodes i just make another one .thank U.

I bumped this up because there is a bunch of good info here.

Bernzy

Thanks John I needed that.

Working on Floaters NOW, No Really..................

I bumped this up because there is a bunch of good info here.

Bernzy

Thanks Bernzy - I used Waterlox for my first plugs - will get to my friend Baystalker's to paint in two weeks.