This just in from Steve Medeiros -pres. RISAA~

BILL WOULD BAN COMMERCIAL TAKING OF MENHADEN IN NARRAGANSETT BAY

"Pogey Boats" would be prohibited from taking "the most important fish in the sea"

Bill H.5165 was introduced into the Rhode Island House of Representatives on
January 24, and would amend the R.I. General Law that designates Narragansett
Bay as a Menhaden Management Area.

In the past few years, evidence has been mounting that shows the beneficial
effects of menhaden to the marine environment. Each adult fish can filter about
four gallons of water per minute, removing large amounts of phytoplankton and
detritus from the water, leaving behind purer water that allows sunlight to
penetrate, encouraging the growth of aquatic plants, which in turn releases
oxygen into the Bay, encouraging the life of other fish and shellfish.

This bill was submitted at the request of the Rhode Island Saltwater Anglers
Association (RISAA), and was sponsored by Rep. Raymond Gallison, Rep. Peter
Kilmartin, Rep. Peter Palumbo, Rep. Peter Ginaitt, and Rep. Douglas Gablinski.
(A companion bill will also be introduced in the Senate, but because of printing
deadlines, it hadn't been done yet. We will acknowledge the sponsors next month)

Because of the importance of this bill, RISAA has partnered with Save The Bay, a
group which will provide support and assistance in passing this legislation.
"We know Menhaden are key to the ecosystem of Narragansett Bay, and deserve real
protection,” said John Torgan, Narragansett Baykeeper. “Save The Bay and RISAA
are joining forces to get better science and management for this most important
fish.”

Other groups which have heard about this legislation have contacted RISAA and
offered support. Scientists from the region, especially the Chesapeake Bay area
where much study has been done already, have offered to help.
Under the current law, Ark Bait, a company from Swansea, Massachusetts, is
allowed to seine millions of menhaden (called pogies locally) which they sell
mostly for lobster bait. The boat shows up each May at the same time menhaden
migrate into Narragansett Bay, and they stay for 4-6 weeks until most of these
fish have been harvested. When there aren't enough left to be financially
feasible to remain in Rhode Island, the boat moves on, spending the summer
fishing in New Jersey waters.

This law, if passed as written, would prohibit the taking of menhaden by purse
seine, which is the method currently used to harvest these fish. This would be
a strong addition to the current law which also bans taking menhaden for
reduction purposes (grinding them up for chicken feed, etc.).

The commercial seiners will still be able to take menhaden, but not in
Narragansett Bay where they are trapped in the Providence River, or along the
shoreline or harbors - easy targets for their spotter aircraft that directs the
boats to scoop up huge schools in a single day.

Beside protecting these fish for their water filtering qualities, an added bonus
is the possible increase in tourism and financial benefit to the state.
Menhaden are prized by recreational fishermen because they are the primary and
most desired food source for most local game fish such as striped bass, bluefish
squeteague, and summer flounder. When the menhaden are plentiful in
Narragansett Bay, so are the striped bass, drawing anglers from all over the region.

Lobstermen would also benefit from this bill. They often complain that striped
bass eat lobsters. That is because their primary food source, menhaden, has
been removed, so they eat to survive. By stopping the Ark Bait Company from
taking most of the menhaden, striped bass and other game fish will consume the
fish nature intended, and this will help the lobster industry.

So, it would seem that passage of this bill is a win-win for almost everyone
concerned. The fish provide a benefit to recreational anglers, lobstermen,
Rhode Island’s economy, and most of all, contributes to a healthy Narragansett Bay.

(The complete text of the bill follows)
------------------
2007 — H 5165
=======
LC00615
=======
S T A T E O F R H O D E I S L A N D
IN GENERAL ASSEMBLY
JANUARY SESSION, A.D. 2007
____________
A N A C T
RELATING TO FISH AND WILDLIFE — MENHADEN MANAGEMENT AREA

Introduced By: Representatives Gallison, Kilmartin, Palumbo, Ginaitt, and Gablinske
Date Introduced: January 24, 2007
Referred To: House Environment and Natural Resources

It is enacted by the General Assembly as follows:
SECTION 1. Sections 20-4.1-1 and 20-4.1-3 of the General Laws in Chapter 20-4.1
entitled “Menhaden Management Area” are hereby amended to read as follows:

20-4.1-1. Designation of menhaden management area. — Narragansett Bay in its
entirety is designated a menhaden management area. The area shall include the
east and west passages of Narragansett Bay, Mt. Hope Bay, and the Sakonnet
River, and be bordered on the
south by a line from Bonnet Point to Beavertail Point to Castle Hill Light. The
southern boundary will then extend from Land’s End to Sachuset Point and then to
Sakonnet Point.

20-4.1-3. Prohibition on the taking of menhaden. — (a) (1) The taking of
menhaden for reduction purposes (fish meal) is prohibited in Rhode Island and
all state waters. A vessel will be considered in the reduction (fish meal)
business if any portion of the vessel’s catch is sold for reduction purposes.
(2) The director of environmental management shall have the power to make
emergency rules regarding this prohibition to protect the public health and
safety from an unexpected hazard or risk. The marine fisheries council shall be
notified of all emergency rules on or before their effective date.
SECTION 2. Section 20-4.1-2 of the General Laws in Chapter 20-4.1 entitled
“Menhaden Management Area” is hereby repealed.
SECTION 3. Chapter 20-4.1 of the General Laws entitled “Menhaden Management
Area” is hereby amended by adding thereto the following section:

20-4.1-2.1. Purse seining prohibited. – It shall be illegal to harvest menhaden
by use of purse seine in the Menhaden Management Area.
SECTION 4. This act shall take effect upon passage.

EXPLANATION BY THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
OF A N A C T
RELATING TO FISH AND WILDLIFE — MENHADEN MANAGEMENT AREA
***
This act would prohibit the use of purse seining for the harvesting of menhaden.
This act would take effect upon passage.

joe this might be a dumb question but what can we do to help get this passed?

Beat me to the punch, that just came thru in a snesa email... I knew about it when it went in on the 24th, lets hope it passes but like anything else, it may take a few tries..its a huge step however!

Way to Go RISSA!!!!! Great organization!!!! WAY TO GO!!!!!!!!:claps: :claps: :claps: :claps:

bravo!!!! much needed!!!:D :claps:

surfcasting in South County was horrible this year because of an abundance of adult menhaden in the bay. be careful what you wish for.

surfcasting in South County was horrible this year because of an abundance of adult menhaden in the bay. be careful what you wish for.

you don't think it was because of a lack of OTHER baits in soco?

nope.

so, are you in favor of menhaden decemation in the bay?

This past spring/summer was one of the best years from the beach in a long time in NJ. The bunker were all over the place with LARGE on them. Almost every day you could find bass pinning bunker in on the beach and it was game on. The more bunker there are the more they will be spread out in the bay and surrounding areas. Big bait= bigger bass

surfcasting in South County was horrible this year because of an abundance of adult menhaden in the bay. be careful what you wish for.

:huh: :eek5:

Im excited to see this bill passed. I could only see the fishing improving.

Fishing would have likely sucked inside the bay AND sucked along SoCo had there been no pogies to keep some fish in the Bay. The reason SoCo sucked was probably not due to the Pogies...

Great job getting this up in front of the people. What WE'LL need to do is to turn the screws on the politicos that will need to vote on this and let them understand, firmly but respectfully, that this is a good thing, and that We Fish and We VOTE!

Kudos to RISAA and Kudos to the people in the legislature with a spring in the heir to push the tide on this :hee: ((last part is an inside joke))

:huh: :eek5:

Im excited to see this bill passed. I could only see the fishing improving.

It will only improve fishing where the menhaden chose to be, and in most cases those places are not your classic surf fishing spots.


you guys can call me a whacko if you like, during the elections you all called spence and i whackos when we voiced our concerns about Bush...

The only people that are truly going to benefit from more pogies are the people with boats, (99% of the commercial bass fishermen) or those shore fishermen who are lucky enough to know where the pogies are close to shore.

thats all i got to say :huh:

It will only improve fishing where the menhaden chose to be, and in most cases those places are not your classic surf fishing spots.


you guys can call me a whacko if you like, during the elections you all called spence and i whackos when we voiced our concerns about Bush...

The only people that are truly going to benefit from more pogies are the people with boats, (99% of the commercial bass fishermen) or those shore fishermen who are lucky enough to know where the pogies are close to shore.

thats all i got to say :huh:

well you are wrong about that.
All of us will benefit from protecting pogies
they keep the ocean alive and provide the high calorie meals large stripers need to grow large faster giving all of us a chance a fatter fish and a healthier ocean.

Good job RISSA I hope it passes.

maybe someday soon, they large schools that once made their way north will be even more abundant.

[QUOTE=Nebe;456051]


you guys can call me a whacko if you like, during the elections you all called spence and i whackos when we voiced our concerns about Bush...


methinks you've worn that soapbox out :bl:

more pogies= more and bigger fish, back in my pinhooking days schools of pogies were everywhere and BIG FAT stripers were abundant. last season 40' fish were going 20-25#..back then these fish were all over 30#. ....hey it's all bush's fault :laughs:

Hey, i hope i am wrong, and of course the abundance of pogies will benefit the fish thats a givin. what i am saying is that it will CHANGE the way we fish. spots that were good before pogies might not be good with pogies.

time will tell.

anyway to get the recreational fishing alliance on board i would think they would help ? i hope the bill passes and other states take notice and follow suit , i would like to see something similiar for boston haba and quincy bay , although it has been a lot of years since i have seen a pogy boat up here it would be nice to nip it the bud before it happens agian

Hey, i hope i am wrong, and of course the abundance of pogies will benefit the fish thats a givin. what i am saying is that it will CHANGE the way we fish. spots that were good before pogies might not be good with pogies.

time will tell.

Ya kind of like the Cape, spots that were once good for sandeels are now loaded with seals , they don't fish the same:hang: :whackin:

I get the picture

You gentlemen know more about this than I do, but let me ask a stupid question. Aren't these same fishing boats going catch the same numbers of menhaden BEFORE they enter the bay? This might make it more difficult but I'm sure they're still going get there fish.

more bait > bigger stripers
>more lobster better prices...

whats not to love... >cleaner water too
awesome bill

You gentlemen know more about this than I do, but let me ask a stupid question. Aren't these same fishing boats going catch the same numbers of menhaden BEFORE they enter the bay? This might make it more difficult but I'm sure they're still going get there fish.

Interesting point... Though I'm not sure Ark will have its spotter plane out hearding the school before it enters the bay... And while they might get some they would not be able to purse the menhaden up into the bay...

surfcasting in South County was horrible this year because of an abundance of adult menhaden in the bay. be careful what you wish for.


Ebeb, Dude you are without a doubt the most selfish person I know...


I hope this passes. Would be good to see some life back in the bay...

I know there were many schools of pogies in both Salt Pond and Charlestown Pond last season along with herring and hickory shad. Hopefully with greater numbers of menhaden not being sucked up in the Bay, their distribution will become more widespread. It was like that back in the eighties when schools of mehaden roamed the South Shore and the breachways. I remember the channel at Galille being;) so packed with pogies that the old paper machine would be black from top to bottom.
The corilation between this subject and Bush, however, somehow escapes me. But hey, I can't handle the hot sauce either!!!
Catch'em up,
ThomCat

Ebeb, Dude you are without a doubt the most selfish person I know...


I hope this passes. Would be good to see some life back in the bay...


On this TT I agree with you, all that aside, the bunker boat was in the bay last year and the fishing was still tremendous!There were still plenty of pogies, thats two years in a row now. If this passes it benifits everyone.

Trust me on this ..
It is good to protect the pogies..

Write ur local representatives in support of this bill.
A list should be compiled an listed..
Large fishing groups an organizations should be herd from..
They listen to the votes..make it known u fish an u vote..

This is a very goood thing. Now how bout down in Virginia........ya right

Now were talking . If you protect the bait the bass will survive. It's all about the habitat and the bait. FishHawk

I agree, the bait should be protected. I also agree w/Eben though. The Surfacster will see little short term benefit (most likely detriment) as the fish last year were on the pogies in the bay.

I agree, the bait should be protected. I also agree w/Eben though. The Surfacster will see little short term benefit (most likely detriment) as the fish last year were on the pogies in the bay.


I would think the overall good far outweighs a surfcaster not wanting the fish to follow the bait?? thats ridiculas, surfcasters will have to adapt and learn new places to fish, there is nothing wrong with fishing the bay and there are plenty of places to go, with a little effort and willingness to learn a new spots, the world does not revolve around gansett surf fisherman or from first rock to point judith...If this passes the bay will be like what it was a long time ago and, it was fantastic many many large bass were caught with regularity in the bay. This will change things no doubt but, for the good! From what I saw last year I wouldent move to South County now if I were paid to do so! It was that good, even with the bunker boat in the bay..Imagine without it!! everything has cycles and the pogies are back strong , with a little help they will thrive.

Bill;
I think the numbers of adult pogies are improving, but no where near where it was when I was a kid and you could walk across the harbors on Pogy schools.

I would think the overall good far outweighs a surfcaster not wanting the fish to follow the bait?? thats ridiculas, surfcasters will have to adapt and learn new places to fish, there is nothing wrong with fishing the bay and there are plenty of places to go, with a little effort and willingness to learn a new spots, the world does not revolve around gansett surf fisherman or from first rock to point judith...If this passes the bay will be like what it was a long time ago and, it was fantastic many many large bass were caught with regularity in the bay. This will change things no doubt but, for the good! From what I saw last year I wouldent move to South County now if I were paid to do so! It was that good, even with the bunker boat in the bay..Imagine without it!! everything has cycles and the pogies are back strong , with a little help they will thrive.

:claps:
I agree 100% w/ what #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& posted above. Although it may somewhat change the way everyone fishes, bringing bunker back in large #'s will outweigh (pun intended) any other effects.
In a few years you would also the see the effects on the ocean beaches

here we come.
#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& has a good point about getting this to become law. You never know whats going to happen in the legislative process. However, these gents in the House that signed the bill are serious about the issue. They are committeed to getting this done and on the books. How do I know this you ask? I am proud to say that my brother is the co-sponsor. Hold on, this is going to be a good one. Kudo's to RISAA.

I would think the overall good far outweighs a surfcaster not wanting the fish to follow the bait?? thats ridiculas, surfcasters will have to adapt and learn new places to fish, there is nothing wrong with fishing the bay and there are plenty of places to go, with a little effort and willingness to learn a new spots, the world does not revolve around gansett surf fisherman or from first rock to point judith...If this passes the bay will be like what it was a long time ago and, it was fantastic many many large bass were caught with regularity in the bay. This will change things no doubt but, for the good! From what I saw last year I wouldent move to South County now if I were paid to do so! It was that good, even with the bunker boat in the bay..Imagine without it!! everything has cycles and the pogies are back strong , with a little help they will thrive.

I definitely agree w/the good outweighing the bad. I think I said that, or meant to. It just makes things a little more challenging for the shore bound. I don't quite see how you can disagree with that. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of flat water fishing. I prefer the open ocean. Doesn't mean I won't adapt, just means it's not my preference.

I don`t very often get involved anymore, too many battles fought without a victory. But my wife fights on, heavily involved with local politics. I`ve allready phoned both my Rep and Senator and expressed my opinion and told them that I would be closely following this bill. A personal call is worth a hundred form letter E-mails.
Slinger

Ahhh.... Finally a winter flame war! :vamp:

I personally don't attribute the lackluster fishing in SoCo to the abundance of Bunker in the bay. When the guys were slaying fish in the Bay in boats... there were plenty of fish to be had from shore too... just had to look in different places sometimes... they're not always in the same places every year. The summer did SUCK but it has to be because of the outlandishly warm water.. no? The bay was no longer loaded with big fish in the summer or pogies... and then August... brought the fish back... although it seemed like almost no one knew it. The fall was excellent. I'll vote for this one twice if I can... :)

It just makes things a little more challenging for the shore bound. I don't quite see how you can disagree with that.

I do. Have you ever fished schools of bunker? Where theres bunker, theres fat hungry bass slamming just about anything you can put in front of them.
It makes pros out of goons, just look at me :D
Only in NE would guys complain about bunker coming back

House committee members:

http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/ComMembers/ComMemr.asp?ComChoiceR=HENR

Eben,
I really don't think you have to worry about your concerns. All the environmental benefits aside... If bunker were at historic levels, they would be all along the coast, in the salt ponds, etc. They would not be only in the bay. Maybe for the summer, but they would drop out in the fall and you would have blitzes all along the coast. The bunker are with out a doubt a GOOD thing. With the decline in herring, flounder etc. they are critical to sustaining the bass population.

Ebe- I think the idea of protecting bunker as being detrimental to South County fishing is preposterous(!) if you really think the only guys who are gonna benefit are th boaters in Gansett Bay, you're way off....... besides, who says that you aren't the guy whose fishing style has adapted to the "wrong way" of fishing without bunker??

Mike - thank you & your brother on this. Also, let us know what we can do to support this...

Thanks!

I have mixed feelings about this development. It will hurt the local bait shops big time and they’re already hurting enough. I think there will be opposition on the bait front – from bait shops and lobstermen. And, like has been said already, pogies make bass to easy to target and catch (which I admit is not always a bad thing). But think about this for a minute – the run of pogies in Narragansett Bay this year was great, and I bet lots of fishermen took more large bass than any time of their life. So you have lots of pogies AND lots of big bass harvested. Is that good? I’m not so sure.
Secondly, it’s one stinking company – and a company that has always shared its catch with sport fishermen. To me this is stabbing Ark bait in the back.

Just a few thoughts to ponder….

DZ

I don't fish the bay. Having said that, from what I read there were plenty of ogies left after Ark bait got done with them. The boat fishermen will still be able to catch pogies for their own bait, but 99.99% of the shore fishermen will be SOL when it comes to getting pogies for bait. The bait shops will also take a hit, from not hving them to sell. I just don't see this as a win-win for everyone.

I definitely agree w/the good outweighing the bad. I think I said that, or meant to. It just makes things a little more challenging for the shore bound. I don't quite see how you can disagree with that. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of flat water fishing. I prefer the open ocean. Doesn't mean I won't adapt, just means it's not my preference.


You must not have fished all that many years then, the presence of bunker make the shore fishing fantastic, in the 80s areas like fort Varnum were red hot due to all the bunker that were around, also you may want to take a closer look at the bay itself, there are plenty of places that have wave action, the bay goes all the way to its mouth at Beavertail light I would call that Surf in every sense of the word. The bay doesnt end at Conimicutt point...Anyway most of the 50lb fish landed in Rhode Island in the 70s and early 80s came from the bay and many of those came from shore fisherman..

This is a stupid argument and not on the right direction....The bottom line is that This bill is a great step forward and will benefit all fisherman.

I have mixed feelings about this development. It will hurt the local bait shops big time and they’re already hurting enough. I think there will be opposition on the bait front – from bait shops and lobstermen. And, like has been said already, pogies make bass to easy to target and catch (which I admit is not always a bad thing). But think about this for a minute – the run of pogies in Narragansett Bay this year was great, and I bet lots of fishermen took more large bass than any time of their life. So you have lots of pogies AND lots of big bass harvested. Is that good? I’m not so sure.
Secondly, it’s one stinking company – and a company that has always shared its catch with sport fishermen. To me this is stabbing Ark bait in the back.

Just a few thoughts to ponder….

DZ

Thank you. I was a little over caffinated last night and when i read this bill I posted my thoughts a little too quickly. Today i am a little more level headed and hopefully i can articulate my feelings better-

To clarify, I am 100% for the protection of pogies. Theres no argument that a bass who eats alot of them will grow to be fat and healthy. I really think they should be protected down in the chesapeake, but thats adifferent story.
Sure, if in a few years there are ample amounts of pogies distributed everywhere, then thats awesome.

NIB- how was the fishing along the NJ beaches where the pogies had left?? Any bass? Did NJ still have resident fish along jetties that had seen pogies a few days before?

Agian i am for this, i just want peope to know (especially the surfcasters) that having alot of pogies around will make things very intereresting..

I don't see how Ark Bait not spending its usual two weeks in the Bay before heading to greener (or Menhaden Browner) pastures is going to negatively impact local bait suppliers and shops as much as the positive impact of having menhaden feeding bass and having menhaden filtering the bay. Sure, Ark bait is able to supply fresh or near fresh pogies for shops and lobsterman while they're here for a shorter period of time and after that the local places and people get pogies from afar anyway.

I think the benefits to the bay and to the bass far outweigh fresh -v- frozen pogies. Or local supply to local shops.

This is a stupid argument and not on the right direction....The bottom line is that This bill is a great step forward and will benefit all fisherman.

well said :grins:

Bill;
I think the numbers of adult pogies are improving, but no where near where it was when I was a kid and you could walk across the harbors on Pogy schools.

I never said they were as good as then and , when I was a kid was about 15 years before you were..I have a good memory...anyway, its better than it has been in a long while, there were more than enough bunker around to fish with and it was awesome fishing, it has not been like this in years, I just hope the trend continues and it looks like the bunker are coming back strong! that ,I am happy about.

You must not have fished all that many years then, the presence of bunker make the shore fishing fantastic, in the 80s areas like fort Varnum were red hot due to all the bunker that were around, also you may want to take a closer look at the bay itself, there are plenty of places that have wave action, the bay goes all the way to its mouth at Beavertail light I would call that Surf in every sense of the word. The bay doesnt end at Conimicutt point...Anyway most of the 50lb fish landed in Rhode Island in the 70s and early 80s came from the bay and many of those came from shore fisherman..

This is a stupid argument and not on the right direction....The bottom line is that This bill is a great step forward and will benefit all fisherman.

Correct, I didn't start until the early 90's. Then I was in NC for 6 years, I've only been back for 6. I didn't think we we're arguing. I agree it will be good for the fishery. My opinion, (and that's all it is) is that the places i currently like to fish will not benefit in the SHORT term. I will adapt if i need to. I am no way opposed to the bill. I would , however, like to see menhaden fishing banned from ALL RI waters, not just the bay.

I have mixed feelings about this development. It will hurt the local bait shops big time and they’re already hurting enough. I think there will be opposition on the bait front – from bait shops and lobstermen. And, like has been said already, pogies make bass to easy to target and catch (which I admit is not always a bad thing). But think about this for a minute – the run of pogies in Narragansett Bay this year was great, and I bet lots of fishermen took more large bass than any time of their life. So you have lots of pogies AND lots of big bass harvested. Is that good? I’m not so sure.
Secondly, it’s one stinking company – and a company that has always shared its catch with sport fishermen. To me this is stabbing Ark bait in the back.

Just a few thoughts to ponder….

DZ

I am surprised dennis, do you really know how efficient and how many pounds that "one" company takes? Of course they give bait to fisherman, they want them to stay happy and quiet, its a small price for them to pay...I watched them up close many times this year from my boat and they take bunker in devestating numbers...I am all for more Bunker!

Has everyone gone nuts???? I cant beleive some of the posts I am reading?? Look back at all the crying threads of the past complaining of the lack of bait, here you guys have a bill that will do something about it and what do some people do?? They cry that they won't do as well because there is to much bait un-F@#$^&()in real..what f!@#$in Joke...Its hopeless and very weird.......

You guys want a bill that make fishing for bass a "Plug only" sport.....To many paint fumes

You cant have it both ways, you cant say one year that there are no fish because there is no bait and then say the next year that a poor season is due to TO much bait...doesnt work like that.......

Bill;
Just wanted to clarify. I know you knew what it was like.
It is nowhere near what it was. Hopefully the trend does continue.
More pogies = more fat bass!

Bill;
Just wanted to clarify. I know you knew what it was like.
It is nowhere near what it was. Hopefully the trend does continue.
More pogies = more fat bass!

No problem Hound ! Like I said however it was really good, I have no complaints, I had bunker just about anytime I wanted it.

I do. Have you ever fished schools of bunker? Where theres bunker, theres fat hungry bass slamming just about anything you can put in front of them.
It makes pros out of goons, just look at me :D
Only in NE would guys complain about bunker coming back

Have to agree, what a joke complaining about a bunker resurgence, makes me wonder who the heck is really a fisherman.......And your right only in NE....

I am surprised dennis, do you really know how efficient and how many pounds that "one" company takes? Of course they give bait to fisherman, they want them to stay happy and quiet, its a small price for them to pay...I watched them up close many times this year from my boat and they take bunker in devestating numbers...I am all for more Bunker!

Bill,
Please don't get me wrong Bill. I know where you're coming from on this.
More large bunker will mean more dead cows - plain and simple.
It's always been my priority to protect large bass. To put a hurting on a commercial guy by hiding behind an environmental smoke screen so that sport fishermen can have all the pogies is wrong. If RISAA really wanted to protect the pogies so they can protect the bay then they should try and ban the taking of pogies by anyone.
Just my opinion.
DZ

I have mixed feelings about this development. It will hurt the local bait shops big time and they’re already hurting enough. I think there will be opposition on the bait front – from bait shops and lobstermen. And, like has been said already, pogies make bass to easy to target and catch (which I admit is not always a bad thing). But think about this for a minute – the run of pogies in Narragansett Bay this year was great, and I bet lots of fishermen took more large bass than any time of their life. So you have lots of pogies AND lots of big bass harvested. Is that good? I’m not so sure.
Secondly, it’s one stinking company – and a company that has always shared its catch with sport fishermen. To me this is stabbing Ark bait in the back.

Just a few thoughts to ponder….

DZ

I have to agree with what Dennis has said . It's hard to see how this legislation can be interpreted as anything other than a "Fish Grab" by some recreational striper fisherman in the upper bay. If the menhaden is truly "the most important fish in the sea" should not everyone be banned from possessing it?

Bill if you didnt have a boat and you were standing next to steve mckenna who has said that last year was the worst surfcasting he has experienced in 30 years including the moratorium would you be singing the same tune?

Im for this bill, all im doing is playing the devils advocate and bringing to light the negative effects of an abundance of pogies.

Bill,
Please don't get me wrong Bill. I know where you're coming from on this.
More large bunker will mean more dead cows - plain and simple.
It's always been my priority to protect large bass. To put a hurting on a commercial guy by hiding behind an environmental smoke screen so that sport fishermen can have all the pogies is wrong. If RISAA really wanted to protect the pogies so they can protect the bay then they should try and ban the taking of pogies by anyone.
Just my opinion.
DZ

EXACTLY!

Bill,
Please don't get me wrong Bill. I know where you're coming from on this.
More large bunker will mean more dead cows - plain and simple.
It's always been my priority to protect large bass. To put a hurting on a commercial guy by hiding behind an environmental smoke screen so that sport fishermen can have all the pogies is wrong. If RISAA really wanted to protect the pogies so they can protect the bay then they should try and ban the taking of pogies by anyone.
Just my opinion.
DZ

That makes complete sense.

Bill if you didnt have a boat and you were standing next to steve mckenna who has said that last year was the worst surfcasting he has experienced in 30 years including the moratorium would you be singing the same tune?

Im for this bill, all im doing is playing the devils advocate and bringing to light the negative effects of an abundance of pogies.

Did you watch"Fishing the Ocean State" yesterday ? It was about fishing in review in 2006.
Steve M, Thomcat, RISAA member, fly fisherman and others were being interview in a open forum and chating at Quakerlane.
Steve did indicate that fishing was "great" before July 12 and once the pogie boats arrived thereafter it was the "worst" he has seen in 30 years. I don't think Steve fishes from the boat.

Bill if you didnt have a boat and you were standing next to steve mckenna who has said that last year was the worst surfcasting he has experienced in 30 years including the moratorium would you be singing the same tune?

Im for this bill, all im doing is playing the devils advocate and bringing to light the negative effects of an abundance of pogies.

Yes I would eben, I fished with steve for 15 years, It was bad last season and I did spend plenty of time in the surf , Steve is a close personal friend of mine(and its funny but I am on the phone with steve right now!) but that doesnt mean I agree with everything he says, I think to many people spent way to much time in one spot and saw things though tunnell vision. As he is telling me now as I relate the post, he said he should have branched North so, take that for what its worth..He says he got stuck in the rut of "this area is so good that it should always be" sometimes that thinking is wrong.But we did do "ok" we came in 4th and 5th for the OTW cup, and we each had several fish from the beach in the 30lb class..so it wasnt all gloom and doom.

In fact he just reminded me, we went to a mid bay Island by boat in june beached it and surf fished the place all night, we HONED The fish so he as I are willing to do different things or whatever it takes.......

And yes, Steve did Boat fish with me and with Jim White, we had a blast.......

redsox ticket- i didnt watch the progrm and out of respect for steve and #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, i wont say too much about where, but Steve's excellent surf fishing was done with the aid of #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&'s boat and going to areas as close to where the pogies were. He being the wise surfcaster quickly adapted.

too funny. I admit that I fished with tunnel vision as well.

Bill,
Please don't get me wrong Bill. I know where you're coming from on this.
More large bunker will mean more dead cows - plain and simple.
It's always been my priority to protect large bass. To put a hurting on a commercial guy by hiding behind an environmental smoke screen so that sport fishermen can have all the pogies is wrong. If RISAA really wanted to protect the pogies so they can protect the bay then they should try and ban the taking of pogies by anyone.
Just my opinion.
DZ
Works both ways. More bunker means more big fish.
Your also talking about 1 commercial venture reaping the reward$ at the expense of the entire fishing community. Comm. fishers and recs alike. Also, keep in mind alot of other species benefit from bunker other than SB

Hi Ed :wavey:

I think the shore anglers will benefit from this greatly as well. I think the Bay will benefit greatly - forget about the bass.

Will shore and boat recs snagging pogies amount to one day's haul from Ark? Probably not. It probably would equal how much Ark gives away in "PR" only...

Personally I think it's a good thing for just about everyone...

I don't think local tackle shops will suffer greatly due to the fact that the amount of profit on fresh bait is usually very small. I work at a tackle shop and although it is not in RI we do keep fresh pogies in the shop whenever possible. We would be making maybe around $.50 on each fresh pogie sold. I say maybe because the price of fresh bait is more than just how much you pay for each pogie but also the amount of hours that are spent finding them and picking them up. In the end the tackle shop is not making a killing on fresh pogies at all but rather supplies them simply to satisfy the customer. Also here in Mass we don't have any large commercial pogie fishery that I know of, and most tackle shops that get fresh pogies are getting them from a few local guys that get them with throw nets. Protecting the pogies will bring nothing but good things. I think the fact that people are complaing about more big fish being killed or less big fish in there local spots is absolutely ridiculous. If more Big Fish are being killed doesnt that equate to more big fish period?

"If RISAA really wanted to protect the pogies so they can protect the bay then they should try and ban the taking of pogies by anyone.
Just my opinion."
DZ

Sometimes these things get way out of control. It took years for Steve M. and the RISAA crew to get anyone to even address this situation at all. To read a quote like the one above illustrates how many people are not familiar with how the "system" works. When I was on the RISAA board of directors a few years back I too was rather hotheaded and wanted to take "big bites" like taking on the whole comm. pogy fishing industry.
To try something like this is an excersise in futility. To try to address it in small doses like the Bay for starts is the much more prudent and effective way to go. Naby steps, man, baby step....TC

Wow, I can't believe what I'm reading. Bill is right, Nuts! Infact, I'm going nuts reading this. How can anyone say protecting the Pogies is a bad thing?

OK, too many pogies=too many BIG bass for anglers to kill=No good?!!??

OK, so does this make sense- Less Pogies=Less BIG bass for anglers to kill=Good??!!??

Surfcasting will be horrible if there are too many Pogies??
Are you kidding me?

None of it makes sense to me.

Talk about being hypocritical...These are the same guys who have been complaining right along-on this very site-about the lack of Pogies/Bait.

Kind of a Catch22 if ya ask me. I say save the resource is the way to go.:kewl:

F-18 i am not saying its bad at all. What i am trying to say is that it will make the bass school up in small areas and in most cases it will be not accessable from shore. thats all.

F-18 i am not saying its bad at all. What i am trying to say is that it will make the bass school up in small areas and in most cases it will be not accessable from shore. thats all.

How's that Mako doing? Problem solved..:kewl:

How's that Mako doing? Problem solved..:kewl:

Mako=assesability=problem solved..

F-18 i am not saying its bad at all. What i am trying to say is that it will make the bass school up in small areas and in most cases it will be not accessable from shore. thats all.


Small areas?? the bay isnt that small and, when there were loads of pogies before, salt pond was full of them along with Ctown and quanny and strewn all along the shorelines...In the fall there was a place that Steve reffered to as the "world series hole" because it was always good around that time, it was good because of the hoards of bunker coming out of the bay in the fall...its a place you know...it has never been the same since...directly due to the bunker.

I guarantee you I can find fish when the bass are pounding bunker... somewhere else, where the bunker are not. Maybe I won't find blitzes or all monsters... but I'll do fine and I'll still get my 30-40 pound fish... Every bass in the ocean will NOT be eating bunker in the middle of the bay where I cannot reach. :fishslap:

Hi Bill...:bshake: :bshake:

I guarantee you I can find fish when the bass are pounding bunker... somewhere else, where the bunker are not. Maybe I won't find blitzes or all monsters... but I'll do fine and I'll still get my requisite 30-40 pound fish... Every bass in the ocean will NOT be eating bunker in the middle of the bay where I cannot reach. :fishslap:

"Every bass in the ocean will NOT be eating bunker in the middle of the bay where I cannot reach"

Maybe not, but most will be especially the fat hungry ones:rotf2: ..And they dont tend to be in the "middle" exactly....in fact most were in 7 foot of water or less:smash:

In all honesty, this is good for everybody exept dave who will pursue his linesides very far away from any bunker and stalk the shorelines with cat-like swiftness pouncing on lean hungry malnutrishuned bass that were to dumb to follow the food sourse...and only in Raging heavy turbulant seas :rotf2:

Billy on the other hand will be content slipping along the calm shorelines tossing lively bunker along same and in between sips on the Budweiser can take just enough time to set the 3/0 trebble in the maw of a large fat well fed bass..and do all this between the hours of 10am to 1pm and get his sleep at night:jump1:

"Every bass in the ocean will NOT be eating bunker in the middle of the bay where I cannot reach"

Maybe not, but most will be especially the fat hungry ones:rotf2: ..And they dont tend to be in the "middle" exactly....in fact most were in 7 foot of water or less:smash:

In all honesty, this is good for everybody exept dave who will pursue his linesides very far away from any bunker and stalk the shorelines with cat-like swiftness pouncing on lean hungry malnutrishuned bass that were to dumb to follow the food sourse...and only in Raging heavy turbulant seas :rotf2:

Billy on the other hand will be content slipping along the calm shorelines tossing lively bunker along same and in between sips on the Budweiser can take just enough time to set the 3/0 trebble in the maw of a large fat well fed bass..and do all this between the hours of 10am to 1pm and get his sleep at night:jump1:

Oh Boy..Let me get the Hip Boots out..It's gettin' deep now..:laughs:

This is a very interesting & hot discussion, but bill #5165 just concerns itself with the menhedon once they get into the bay. Is that enough? A healthy bait population means a healthy preditor population [i.e. bass]. It's a nice start, what about the bait along the rest of the coast? What shape are they in? I love reading the everyones opinions. Thanks.

I'm still amazed that people can't see the overall good in this....... afraid of killing too many cows?? how about, now every fish can eat like a cow, and grow up fat and healthy!!?!!! and fluke and albies will have peanuts to eat, and the water quality can improve.............

last year in CT we saw bunker in places we never dreamedof catching them- and big bass were right in there with them. yeah, we had to adapt- we moved off the same ol' rock that gave up fish for the last 15 years- so what?? made it more exciting that way anyhow- and still didn't have to liveline a single bunker all season to catch a fish; they ate big wood just fine.

oh yeah- and the local shioops can still castnet all the fresh baits they want........ fresher and cheaper

Personally I feel this is a great chance to return things to the way they should be. More bunker means more food for bass- food that is rich in nutrients and fat needed for healthy fish.
Maybe the occurence of skin lesions and mal-nourished fish being greatly reduced will help offset the loss of cows caught on a live lined bunka.
We can protect the cows only so well- guys with other live baits, ie scup still kill plenty of big girls. So I feel if they are not eating bunker they are eating something else and just as likely to be caught.
At least the fish that feed on bunker will be healthier and fatter when we catch them. The trickle down effect from healthy bunker stocks will be felt through out the eco system.
I remember the mid to late 80s when the bunker were so thick you couldn't cast without snagging them. The blues with them were massive and healthy. The bass stocks were in the gutter, so we never caught many, but now give us good bass numbers with a superior supply of arguably the striped bass's most nutrious food and lets see what happens.

I DON<T BELIEVE THIS WHOLE F #$%^&*()_&^ THREAD ////


ya gotta be a complete moron not to realize that this will benefit everyone >>>>>>>>>>>>Most of you guys that are bitching are clueless to what a positive impact the pogies would have on the whole fishing community not just the bay // not just Rhode Island .................>>>>>>>>>>>> some of you really need to sit back & shut the f $^&*up because you don,t know #^&#^&#^&#^&-%$%$%$%$ what your talking about .......... assuming / this & assuming that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kiss my IRISH f $%^&*()ASS ________no need for me to go back to this thread ///it just confirmed what I had thought for quite a while >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alot of the know-it -all fisherman >>>>>> ARE F #$%^&*()(*& CLUELESS :eek5: :nailem:

I DON<T BELIEVE THIS WHOLE F #$%^&*()_&^ THREAD ////


ya gotta be a complete moron not to realize that this will benefit everyone >>>>>>>>>>>>Most of you guys that are bitching are clueless to what a positive impact the pogies would have on the whole fishing community not just the bay // not just Rhode Island .................>>>>>>>>>>>> some of you really need to sit back & shut the f $^&*up because you don,t know #^&#^&#^&#^&-%$%$%$%$ what your talking about .......... assuming / this & assuming that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kiss my IRISH f $%^&*()ASS ________no need for me to go back to this thread ///it just confirmed what I had thought for quite a while >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alot of the know-it -all fisherman >>>>>> ARE F #$%^&*()(*& CLUELESS :eek5: :nailem:

you are a boat fisherman with a comercial liscence. I bet you have a hard on the size of prudence island after hearing there are going to be more pogies for you to snag and drop.

for the 5th time i am agreeing this is a great thing and I know it will benifit everyone. Things are just going to change alot for the surfcaster thats all..
Bill i know that hole of which you speak:think:
I'll shut up now.

Kiss my IRISH f $%^&*()ASS
Uh, I think I'll say NO to that!!:bshake: :bshake:

I bet you have a hard on the size of prudence island
My answer is NO here also..:skulz: :laugha:

Reminder: Call your local representative. There are many representatives in Rhody and a majority of votes will be needed. Safe bet will be 3/5 votes in favor so that governor can't veto.

ARK bait has been doing this for years!! They wiped out Mt Hope bay a long time ago!
This Bill is a good thing!!

WANNA F #$%^&*( PLAY <><><><

THOSE IN GLASS HOUSES SHOULD<NT BE THROWIN STONES ><><<>
I<VE HAD A COMMERCIAL LICENSE FOR EXACTLY 45: YEARS >>>>>>>>> I BELIEVE YOU WEREN<T BORN YET ;;;;

I WONDER WHO ASKED ME >>> {{{ IF THEY GOT A MONEY FISH TONIGHT}} WOULD I SELL IT ON MY LICENSE FOR HIM ><><> :hang:

Gentlemen, please control yourself. This is too big a deal to let it break down into a flame war. When will you people realize that if we don`t all stand together we will all surly hang alone! If somthing isn`t done now to stop the further degradation of our forage supply very soon there won`t be anything left to argue about! It`s been years since I`ve felt so motivated, still carry too many scars from 30 yrs of beating my head against brick walls, but this is a battle that must be fought and won. I will do my utmost to see it happen.
Slinger

chill out

NIB- how was the fishing along the NJ beaches where the pogies had left?? Any bass? Did NJ still have resident fish along jetties that had seen pogies a few days before?


..

I had a 35 on a jig an a 34 lber on a MAC Pikie before the pogie madness started..Sure fishing was tough even with the live herring..
U gotta work ur but off in NJ..
After they left it was almost august..
We had good fish well into july.
in fact I went to BI on 7/16-7/21 an that saturday they while i was away they got some..
U will get the usuall cries from those who give half assed efforts.
Do they create a bass vacumm when the big pods arrive yes..
But the fishing to follow is something many have never ever seen.. Guys fishing 40 yrs..
Never seen the the likes of what we had since we kicked the reduction boats out..
When I say I had 30-40 fish over 30 lbs it's no lie..
Think about it...
Thats several lifetimes of fish that size for a good angler...
NJ still has the bait boats..
I wonder where them ARK boats will go if RI kicks em out..

but Steve's excellent surf fishing was done with the aid of #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&'s boat and going to areas as close to where the pogies were.

E - I think you are off the mark a bit and trading literally a handful of trips in Bill's boat for many trips in Bill's boat. As for the surfcasting from the island, I dropped them off so I know a bit about that trip. Bunker weren't involved, eeling & sluggos were the trick.

you are a boat fisherman with a comercial liscence. I bet you have a hard on the size of prudence island after hearing there are going to be more pogies for you to snag and drop.


E - I think you are off the mark a bit again as you don't understand Clammer when it comes to fish, commercial or otherwise. He'd rather catch that 6# bass from begin a rock on a little swimmer than chasing big fish all day long Yo-Yoing Pogies. Now if he happens to catch "money fish" in season he'll sell them but he also understands the bassonomics of RI isn't a very profitable gig unless they are close to you...

Not a big deal but I wanted to point out a couple things when concerning friends of mine.


I wonder where them ARK boats will go if RI kicks em out..

Nibtastic - I believe they go to NJ after they leave RI every year. They are typically in RI for a week to three weeks...

What I would like to see is less pi$$ing contest more debate (if needed) in ths thread. There are good arguments made here just a little less arguing please :tooth:

Thanks :btu:

Seems any discussions involving a few guys around here turn ugly..
It's unfortunate that it has to come to that..
I say we set up the octagon.
Lets Get It On...
...

Gentlemen, please control yourself. This is too big a deal to let it break down into a flame war. When will you people realize that if we don`t all stand together we will all surly hang alone! If somthing isn`t done now to stop the further degradation of our forage supply very soon there won`t be anything left to argue about! It`s been years since I`ve felt so motivated, still carry too many scars from 30 yrs of beating my head against brick walls, but this is a battle that must be fought and won. I will do my utmost to see it happen.
Slinger


Good points!

I can't really see why everyone's wigging out here. The ONLY negative thing in this entire thread (besides the flames and pissing). Is that pogies in the bay will CHANGE surf fishing. NO ONE (except as far as I can tell DZ for what seems like a well thought out OPINION)
says it will be a bad thing, EVEN THE GUYS WHO THINK IT MIGHT, I STRESS MIGHT, hurt a few surfside spots, agrees this is a GOOD THING. If you think otherwise, go back and re-read the thread.

Holy mossbunker! Forage is key. Look what's happening up North, epic arguing, with the lobsterman and the herring boats and the tuna boats and the groundfish boats. Resources should be managed not individually but ecologically. It is the future to a sustainable planet. The relationship of one thing to another. Whatever we can do to improve the productivity of our estuaries is, I think, a good thing. Oysters and pogies and eel grass. The Trinity. Pass the hot sauce, please.

I go on a business trip for a week and all hell breaks loose.

OK, my 2 cents.

Banning the taking of Pogies by ARK bait is a GOOD thing. It will benefit everyone. To say that the rec guys should also be prohibited from taking Pogies is ridiculous. It's like saying that all deer hunters should be banned because one nitwit goes out and slaughters 10 deer.

There is a big difference between a rec guy in a boat like me snagging a half dozen pogies to live line and Ark bait netting 50, 000 pogies on one drag.

If they do ban Ark bait from netting Pogies there will be a lot more Pogies...EVERYWHERE!!! The upper Bay will not support a huge biomass for an entire season. Sooner or later many of the Pogies will filter down the Bay and end up around Narragansett. Do you think there will be a line of demarcation where the pogies will stop?

And what about fishing the bay from shore. Last I hear Jamestown was in the Bay. Casey, Point, Sally Rock, Goddard Park, Barrington Beach, Colt State Park, Rome Point, Sabin Point. Pojac Point, Warren River, etc, etc.
Everyone will benefit from the commercial ban.

This thread is indicative on a small scale of the biggest problem we as recreational fisherman suffer in regards to protecting our small piece of the pie. The commercial industry presents a united front with concise goals and a strong clear effort. It seems we instead opt to engage in civil wars with no resolution ultimately leading to few positive results.

Paul I think they count their drag by the metric ton. I dont think they count individual pogies like say 50, 000 per say.

I'm just going to ignore eben on this...... obvious signs of rectal cranium insertion.... basically he cant catch fish when there pogies around soooo.... advocate for the surfcaster... *insert laugh*

Paul I think they count their drag by the metric ton. I dont think they count individual pogies like say 50, 000 per say.

I'm just going to ignore eben on this...... obvious signs of rectal cranium insertion.... basically he cant catch fish when there pogies around soooo.... advocate for the surfcaster... *insert laugh*

Thanks Vic. My mistake, but eveyone gets my point.

yeah those dudes clean up something fierce if they set their minds to it.

Holy mossbunker!

Resources should be managed not individually but ecologically. It is the future to a sustainable planet. The relationship of one thing to another. Whatever we can do to improve the productivity of our estuaries is, I think, a good thing. Oysters and pogies and eel grass. The Trinity. Pass the hot sauce, please.

Amen brother goosefish!
Ecosystem based management is the key.
It does start from the ground up.

Damn this thread exploded!!!
Everybody take a DEEP breath, relax and realzie that ultimatly we are all on the same side (the bass) ...

As the great philosofer Bob Dylan said
"We always did feel the same,
We just saw it from a different point of view,
Clammer's Tangled up in blues." (OK. added a bit :D)"


What I would like to see:
Numbers (#pounds Ark takes/yr) vs. the total catch coastwide
Would they still be scarfing them up outside the bay, before they get to RI? Probably unless more wide reaching legislation is passed. This would be a good step though.

Everyone is probably right to some extent:
The structure of fish would change in the surf and in the bay. They'd be around but maybe have different patterns, maybe not.
large schools of pogies in the bay would make bass an easier target for commercial and recreational fisherman no doubt..



When I was a kid it was the moratorium, but I remember Newport harbor LOADED with adult pogies and monster bluefish all summer. Was it a good thing? Of course. With the population of bass back up it should be a benefit, especially in the bay.

Lets be honest; in the context of Narragansett bay pogies would be a good thing, but what I'm curious is how much of a drop in the bucket is it coastwide. (Ark is potatoes next to Omega protein). we need healthy stocks of bait fish throughout the range of the bass. With out that any benefit will probably be localized in my opinion.

I've heard rumblings from biologists who would never want to be quoted, that the bay may not handle the large population of pogies from decades ago because improved water quality has decreased some of the nutrients (algae) in the bay.. go figure...

[QUOTE=piemma;456808]

There is a big difference between a rec guy in a boat like me snagging a half dozen pogies to live line and Ark bait netting 50, 000 pogies on one drag.

QUOTE]

You are probably right... but how can you be sure there is a big difference in the overall impact between comms and recs? There are alot of boats out there snagging a couple dozen at a time several times a week for months. I hear the same argument about the rec vs comm. striper catch. The data indicates that recs dramatically out-harvest the comms. with bass.

RIrockhound,
In my unscientific opinion, the bunker reaching RI and MA now, are a direct result of NJ's reduction boat bill 4 years ago. Thats a pretty short period to realize such great results so far north. I think maintaining strong abundance of bunker in the bay will be a huge stepping stone for expanding populations of the bunkers northern territory. Its not just about us in RI, the bay or Striped Bass or surfcasters
What Narragansett and Buzzards Bay is seeing is just the tail end of the bunker biomass. What we are seeing now is not close to what we remember, at least when I was young.

Thats along my points. Pogies grow fast, results should be quick (I think)
I remain unclear whether it is the NJ bill or whether the upswing is some kind of natural anomaly. I'm for it. I just don't know the coastwide impact yet. Thats all.. WTF! I'm a geologist anyways :D not a biologist!

[QUOTE=piemma;456808]

There is a big difference between a rec guy in a boat like me snagging a half dozen pogies to live line and Ark bait netting 50, 000 pogies on one drag.

QUOTE]

You are probably right... but how can you be sure there is a big difference in the overall impact between comms and recs? There are alot of boats out there snagging a couple dozen at a time several times a week for months. I hear the same argument about the rec vs comm. striper catch. The data indicates that recs dramatically out-harvest the comms. with bass.

Zimmy:
Point well taken. But, I still don't think the rec bass guys or the comm bass guys will make a dent in the Pogie population compared to what the ARK bait boats and their spotter planes do. We are talking tons as opposed to pounds of pogies harvested.

It is an eastern seaboard species. However the pogies that make it up this way tend to spawn up this way. Maybe the Bay has seen an increase in the numbers of diatoms the past couple of years. Increase the food supple, reduce the harvest, hope for a strong year class and what do you have---snag hooks, burned drags, bunker oil on the hands.

Wow! I guess it really is winter. Lots of pent up energy being vented. I hope everyone feels better. Anyway, seems I’m definitely in the minority here (as I thought I would be). But it’s not very often that I back a commercial fishing entity so I kind of expected disagreement. I try and think of both sides of an issue even if it is mostly beneficial to me, I always want to see if there are any “hidden consequences” that might not be desirable. If my opinion got your noggins to thinking - it worked.

So here is how I figure this will pan out: Comment on this bill will include those from all sides. Bait Shops, RISAA, Save the Bay, Arc Bait, and Commercial Fishermen. The wild card will be comments from representatives from the RI Division of Fish and Wildlife and maybe the commercial fishing industry groups. Division Biologists are routinely called on to give a scientific view of whether a bill has legitimate basis for concern. In other words, do RI fisheries biologists believe that Arc Baits take of Narragansett Bay menhaden is detrimental to the health of the bay, etc? I think this will be the key. Commercial fishing organizations may also weigh in as they normally back each other. Commercial fishermen don’t want to see a “precedent” setting action go against them. I’m sure the draggers will be watching closely as they’ve been the target of talks like this before. Normally I don’t think the legislature would pass a bill that would put someone out of business, especially in the hard hit commercial fishing industry, BUT in this case it is a Massachusetts company, not from RI, so maybe they would.

Another scenario will be the legislature telling the RIMFC to broker some sort of “agreement” with Arc Bait about placing certain areas off limits or placing a quota on their take from Narragansett Bay. It will also be interesting to see if the RIMFC takes up discussion of this bill at a future hearing – and will they have to endorse it?

What would happen if this bill passes? Not really sure on this one. Arc Bait may just fold but I don’t think that will happen, especially if large menhaden are making a comeback. They’ll probably just go to other areas where it is legal to take pogies.

DZ

I hope all you guys who lined up to take free bait from the big red boat smiled pretty when they took your picture, your about to become stars at the state house, one of the lynchpins of Arks defense. See at least they were thinking ahead!
Slinger

Ark Bait Co Inc - Detailed Company Profile

Year Started: 1978
State of Incorporation: N/A
URL: N/A
Location type: Single Location
Stock Symbol: N/A
Stock Exchange: N/A
Also Does Business As: N/A
NAICS: Sporting and Recreational Goods and Supplies Merchant Wholesalers; Sporting Goods Stores
Est. Annual Sales: $3,600,000
Est. Employees: 17
Est. Employees at Location: 2
Contact Name: Gerald Souza
Contact Title: President

wow destroying a bay costs roughly 3.6 mil a year

Just two observations. 1) Ark bait will, probably, continue to take the same amount of pogies every year, they'll just change locations. So for the east coast biomass of menhaden there will be no change. 2) the lobstermen will fight this tooth and nail, since if it succeeds it will drive up the cost of bait. Lost of lobstermen out there and they have recently taken several hits, with pot limits, size increases and mandatory v-notching.

1. they'll have to move, away from us, then away from someone else, eventually they'll have no place. Its a start, giving up isnt going to change anything.

2. it'll balance out for all the years they were at the herring runs taking every herring they could to use as lobster bait. :jump:

Vic,
They need go no further than the entrance to the bay. How do the pogies get up there, fly?

The problem is that the lobstermen have a lot of poltical clout and sympathy for the hits they've taken lately. If they oppose it'll be a rock road to get it passed.

keep them out of anything possible mike.


sounds like you're on the other side of the fence on this one :whackin: thats a shame..

Not really on the other side of the fence. I'm just wondering if we have the ability to win this fight and if its worth the political capital we will spend on it. Lots of more contentious things in play right now, like the coming salt water license. The coming crisis with scup and sea bass. And several other things that strike me as much more importent to the average RI angler.

license cant pass.... that was tough...

scup and seabass are for comms and charters..

not really that big of an agenda for me personally (neither a comm or a charter)...... So scup and seabass limits go down.... it'd be all the same to me:cheers: Doubt I'm the only person in the state that feels this way :tooth:

hahaha you said scup and seabass were more important...:jester:

I'll have two of what you're havin'

Vic,
A license is coming, if not state, then federal, it was contained in the Magnesson-Stevens reauthorization that passed in December and was signed into law in January. Its a done deal, now we get to argue about the details.

Scup and sea bass may not be important to you, but they are certainly important to all the tackle shops. They sell a lot more scup and sea bass bait than eels for stripers.

State is being forced to do the lic!! if they don't do it the feds will, this means the state will lose the money, so if its going to happen the state will do so as not to lose the cash!

I for one will never pay for a Saltwater lic!! Not until they move all the dragger's out to 3 mile limit!
What are we going to get for are money?? Nothing!!

I am not against dragger's, they do what they allow them to do, but they have ruined the inshore fishery! There is no place for them inshore!

When the DMF and others start protecting the inshore fishery so that those of us that fish it can, and catch fish, then and only then will I pay for a lic.

Ark is usually only getting pogies locally for a short time.They will just move the boats to New Jersey earlier than usual and the bait shops and lobstermen will get their bait the same way they do all summer.

MM;
Totally agree. and it is limit driven.
You drop bass down to 1 fish the bait guys care less. People still fish.
You drop scup, seabass, Blackfish (look at the flap this year) and the squid/worms/crabs sales go way down.

Vic it isn't a shame. Mike is pointing out some very obvious and very real truths. I have spent my share of time at fisheries meeting for non-bass species. I guess lump me in on 'that side' of the fence. I'm not anti-commercial, especially if it is done the right way.

Bryan,
And I just heard that the ASMFC wants to cut tog by another 28%. If anyone is iterested I'll post the press release in a separate thread.

New thread!

we're getting off track here. more bunker please :btu:

Yup we need more bunker :cheers:

I DON<T BELIEVE THIS WHOLE F #$%^&*()_&^ THREAD ////


ya gotta be a complete moron not to realize that this will benefit everyone >>>>>>>>>>>>Most of you guys that are bitching are clueless to what a positive impact the pogies would have on the whole fishing community not just the bay // not just Rhode Island .................>>>>>>>>>>>> some of you really need to sit back & shut the f $^&*up because you don,t know #^&#^&#^&#^&-%$%$%$%$ what your talking about .......... assuming / this & assuming that ///it just confirmed what I had thought for quite a while >>>>>> Alot of the know-it -all fisherman >>>>>> ARE F #$%^&*()(*& CLUELESS :eek5: :nailem:

:claps: :claps: :claps: :claps: :claps: :claps:

ANY relief given to schools of menhaden is GREAT. How could that be any more obvious?

Like da Clam-man, I can't believe some of the posts...and to think, 20 years ago I would think nothing of driving my pedal-bike down to the river with a rod duct-taped to it....a couple of snaggers in my pocket and a big ASSS smile on my face because I knew I'd find a school somewhere. Somtimes I'd have to wait for them to get close enough....other times I'd watch and watch...and go home eager to get back the next day because they never came close enough.......yeah, I'd hate to go back to those days :whackin: "CLUELESS"...

When the bunker schools show up in the Weweantic/Wareham rivers again (bringing the bass, blues and squeateague with them), I'll be able to take my grandson fishing like the "old days".

Buzzards Bay isn't that far from RI

I think the long term effect is what will be the clincher in getting this passed. I think it is good for all areas. The bunker schools are not like they used to be 30 years ago. But than what is. I hope this goes through.

:claps: :claps: :claps: :claps: :claps: :claps:

ANY relief given to schools of menhaden is GREAT. How could that be any more obvious?

Like da Clam-man, I can't believe some of the posts...and to think, 20 years ago I would think nothing of driving my pedal-bike down to the river with a rod duct-taped to it....a couple of snaggers in my pocket and a big ASSS smile on my face because I knew I'd find a school somewhere. Somtimes I'd have to wait for them to get close enough....other times I'd watch and watch...and go home eager to get back the next day because they never came close enough.......yeah, I'd hate to go back to those days :whackin: "CLUELESS"...

I rest my case- all of you guys who are saying this is great for fishing are proving my point while saying i am wrong. large bass school up under pogies- its an easy slaughter.

Actually, if as many guys practice catch and release as is indicated on this board, it seems that talk of a mass slaughter is rather premature will likely be averted. ........Catch'em up, ThomCat

http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/showthread.php?t=37928

What slaughter? According to the thread above, most people C & R, and for the rest of us (comm. included), there are laws protecting qty. I'm so tired of seeing skinny bass, fish that should be well into the poundage but are not, 48" fish that struggle to reach 30#s, that is NOT good for the bass. I think the biggest point being missed here is....THE BASS NEED THE BUNKER MORE THAN WE NEED THE BASS, BUNKER, AND ANYTHING ELSE YOUR AFRAID THAT WILL CHANGE. Is it fear of losing big fish to comm. guys due to them schooling under the bunker? Sure the big fish will take a hit at first, but if the bunker continue to prosper...the Striper will catch up or never miss a beat.

MORE BUNKER MEANS MORE BIGGER-HEALTHIER BASS...period.

http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/showthread.php?t=37928

What slaughter? According to the thread above, most people C & R, and for the rest of us (comm. included), there are laws protecting qty. I'm so tired of seeing skinny bass, fish that should be well into the poundage but are not, 48" fish that struggle to reach 30#s, that is NOT good for the bass. I think the biggest point being missed here is....THE BASS NEED THE BUNKER MORE THAN WE NEED THE BASS, BUNKER, AND ANYTHING ELSE YOUR AFRAID THAT WILL CHANGE. Is it fear of losing big fish to comm. guys due to them schooling under the bunker? Sure the big fish will take a hit at first, but if the bunker continue to prosper...the Striper will catch up or never miss a beat.

MORE BUNKER MEANS MORE BIGGER-HEALTHIER BASS...period.

I hope so. and as Thomcat has mentioned, hopefully there will be alot or catch and release. I hope the bill passes, and hopefully the majority of RI's fishermen know that this is a gift not to be exploited.

Don't kid yourself, people will ALWAYS try to take advantage, but don't they do that already - to the fullest extent possible? So theoretically speaking, what's the difference?...More bunker is better no matter how you look at it. It HAS to be -

I look at it like this, if there's a school of 20 large bass in a given area being worked by a few comm. guys..let's just say 15 get caught leaving 5 undernourished fish to go on about their business scrounging for some more food.

On the flipside, we have MORE bunker and.....let's say there's a school of 100 large and 90 get landed. That leaves 10 large, fat, healthy bass to go and have sex rather than scrounge for food because there's plenty of it. yeah, I know, it's a comical analogy, but give it a little thought, deep thought



.....and yes, I'm sure people will still buy surfhogs :hihi:

:claps: :claps: :claps: :claps: :claps: :claps:

ANY relief given to schools of menhaden is GREAT. How could that be any more obvious?

Like da Clam-man, I can't believe some of the posts...and to think, 20 years ago I would think nothing of driving my pedal-bike down to the river with a rod duct-taped to it....a couple of snaggers in my pocket and a big ASSS smile on my face because I knew I'd find a school somewhere. Somtimes I'd have to wait for them to get close enough....other times I'd watch and watch...and go home eager to get back the next day because they never came close enough.......yeah, I'd hate to go back to those days :whackin: "CLUELESS"...


Could'nt have said it better :bl: Clam man I owe you a diet coke, bloo I owe ya a beer!!


Gotta love the I been fishing 3 yrs, and I read everyone of the dog killers books, I know everything guys... *insert laugh*

Gotta love the I been fishing 3 yrs, and I read everyone of the dog killers books, I know everything guys... *insert laugh*

ive been serioulsly surfcasting since '92. I started fishing the bay off and on with my gramps since i wa 8. In the 80's me and the boys used to snag and drop pogies for bloofish in newport all the time. As for the dog killer reference, ive read a few Frank d's books. theyre pretty good.

Got any more snide remarks??? This is a discussion nothing more and i really dont see the need for you to call me selfish in one post and then say that i have zero experience on the water..

You're right. I was just stunned over that intial remark. Sorry, wanna hold hands? I had too much coffee??...

just bustin' you nuts basspro cheer up :lm:

:buds:

:gu:

:gu:

:cheers: :gu: :gu: :bshake:

This is a letter I composed and sent(75times)to all the state reps.Anyone who wishes(not just R.I residents)can feel free to edit in their own name,and send it in.Thanx. Dear Sir or Madam,as I'm sure you're aware,bill H.5165 would designate Narragansett bay a Menhaden Management Area.Passage of this bill would outlaw the use of commercial purse seines(nets)within the bay.If you aren't aware,the menhaden is a baitfish which is essential to all of our gamefish.Pure protien,the menhaden keep our gamefish fat and healthy.They have been called "the most important fish in the ocean".They serve another important function as well.Filter-feeders,they clean the water in the bay.An adult menhaden(bunker)cleans four gallons of seawater a minute.They swim along with open mouths taking in seawater,and filter out nutrients.These nutrients are the cause of our yearly algae blooms,and the massive fish and shellfish kills that stem from them.This has earned bunker the nick-name"the liver of the bay".
As you are probably aware,there is only one company(Ark Bait),an out of state company at that(Swansea,Mass.),who purse-seine inside Narragansett bay.They use spotter planes to find the schools of menhaden,then encircle them with their nets.Basically,they decimate the schools of bunker,along with Striped Bass(our most valuable gamefish)who are feeding on them.It is IMPOSSIBLE to net bunker,without netting bass as well.It is already illegal to net bass,so BY LAW,they must be thrown back dead,into the water.This is a terrible waste.It's usually the larger breeding stock bass that are killed needlessly.
Striped bass are beginning to really feel the heat.Without menhaden,most are skinny and weak,making them highly suseptible to MYCOBACTERIOSIS.A disease that many bass are dieing from.
The economic value of our Striped Bass is HUGE.Countless thousands of sportsmen and women come to R.I.(The Ocean State)to pursue Striped bass,along with our residents.We spend HUGE amounts of money in R.I.on everything from bait and tackle,gas,boats,fuel,gear,food,lodging,and a variety of other essentials.Sportsmen and women contribute in a major way,to every aspect of our states economy.
Passage of this bill is VERY important.Thousands and thousands of Sportsmen and women (and voters) will be closely watching the outcome.Thank you very much for taking the time to read this,and thank you in advance for your consideration.If need be,I can provide you with corroborating evidence for the claims I've made.Again thank you.
Robert McManus
Johnston,R.I.

i thought we were the only state still allowing "purse seining " menhaden. Omega Protein sucks! Hopefully they will not be around too much longer at least on the east coast. There were quite a few confrontations with these clowns down here this fall with them trying to bully around smaller boats. They (Omega protein) have the cheap labor market cornered for the company to work their boats. They were circling large schools and s#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g up everything, rockfish included. Congrats on y'alls bill!!

I received 5 return e-mails so far from the 75 state reps.Everyone who replied is in favor of the bill. Dear Mr. McManus:
I have not been asked to co-sign this bill, but it sounds like an initiative I could support given the information I have. Thank you for contacting me.

Sincerely,
Rep. Patricia A. Serpa
District 27 (West Warwick, Warwick, Coventry)
Dear Robert, In my 15 years in the General Assembly, this is one of the most helpful and informative letters I have ever received. I will certainly support this bill. You make perfect sense. Thank you for writing. Sincerely, Robert Jacquard, Representative-District 17 --- On Thu 02/01, <

Mr. McManus:
Thank you for the e-mial. I encourage you to spread the word. In fact, if you and others would also write letters to the editor, that would help also. By the way, I am a co-sponsor of the bill.
Rep.Peter Kilmarten

Dear Mr. McManus:
Thank you for your email.
Please know that I am the primary sponsor of this bill, and appreciate your comments. Respectfully, I ask you to please contact your Representative and Senator and urge him/her to support this legislation, as the opponents, mostly lobsterman, are already attacking the position of trying to save this species.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Raymond E. Gallison, Jr.
Representative- District 69

Robert,


I can remember during the 1980's when there was a moratorium on netting of menhaden, finding schools of menhaden in the bay, and by treble hooking the bait fish, allowing it to sink to below the school, and then hooking bluefish or stripers. This was some of the most exciting fishing I have ever experienced. I also remember going out early one summer morning, and seeing the 'pogey' boats netting everything they could get, and the demise of these schools. I agree that protecting the menhaden in this way is vital to improving and supporting our sport fishing industry.
The only objection I anticipate is from lobster fisherman in my district who use the menhaden for bait.


Thanks for you note,
Rep John J. Loughlin
These are all the replies I've gotten so far,and it seems that everyone is on board right?Problem is,I sent out 75 e-mails and so far only received 5 replies.That leaves 70 state reps unheard from.Again I urge everyone to do their part in this.Thanx!

Bump.Anybody remember this thread?

Just holding on till Steve says to go.The bill has just been assigned to commitees and will take some time to make it to the hearing stage in both the house and senate. The best time to bombard these pols is just before they come up for a vote to be sent to the floor. We want them thinking about the thousand calls and letters they got in the last two weeks and not trying to remember what was said two months ago. The biggest thing we can do now is try to get this hurried along so it can get to the floor before the pogies are all netted for another season. As soon as Steve says the time is right I`ll be all over the net harrassing people to get out the support.
Slinger

surfcasting in South County was horrible this year because of an abundance of adult menhaden in the bay. be careful what you wish for.

that makes alot of sense :spidey:

Senate Bill No.311
BY Lenihan, Sheehan
ENTITLED, AN ACT RELATING TO FISH AND WILDLIFE -- MENHADEN MANAGEMENT AREA
{LC1357/1}
02/07/2007 Introduced, referred to Senate Environment and Agriculture
----------------------

Members...

Please send a "thank you" to Senators Lenihan and Sheehan for co-sponsoring the
menhaden bill for us. Tell them you appreciate their efforts on the part of
everyone who cares about Narragansett Bay and our marine environment.

Suggest message...

Subject: Bill S.0311 on Menhaden - Thank you!

Their addresses:

sen-sheehan@rilin.state.ri.us
sen-lenihan@rilin.state.ri.us

The following was printed today in East Bay Newspapers.

Note that John Torgan was misquoted and he has called the newspaper to state that fact.

The paper says from John Torgan (of Save the Bay) "However, while he calls Rep. Gallison's legislation "brave" and "courageous,"
he doesn't believe there is enough scientific evidence out there to come up with an all-encompassing strategy for managing menhaden effectively — yet."

John states that he told the reporter that he believes THERE IS ENOUGH SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE OUT THERE.....