Do you think fresh water fisherman are the inivators or always on the cutting edge of fishing. Most don't want nothing to do with bait and from what I see the best way take trophy fresh water fish is on artificals,,, unlike salt water. A good example being Gary Yamamoto baits or all these new swimmers plastic/rubber. Maybe its the big money in tournaments that has driven them or is it because most of the population of fisherman have more access to fresh water?
Will we ever catch up to them or is it a figure of my imagination?

Fresh water fish have smaller brains, they are easier to catch.

Fresh water fish have smaller brains, they are easier to catch.

thems fightin words...

tackle companys get most of there money from fresh water fishermen. theres a lot of money in the pro bass tours

Fresh water fish have smaller brains, they are easier to catch.

I don't know about that....I doubt there are any Rocket Scientists in the Bluefish Family Tree.

and on to the thread at hand......I think its mostly because their are SO many more freshwater fisherman than Saltwater guys. Only 19 states have saltwater access where all 50 have Freshwater access.

There's an awful lot of space, fishing space, once I turn and head west from Rhode Island. This is one big country we live in and it's full of dreaming largemouth fisherman. Some are inventors and some are, well.............no different than chew spitting guys like me.

Saltwater fishing has all but killed my desire to fish fresh water. When I do fish fresh, a shiner or native minnow is my go to bait (or bread balls for sunny fishing w/kids).

It's funny how much is pushed toward a stealth approach (low test/invisible line) for bass fishing. Then you see a an ice fishing trap with cloth line pulling fish from the ice.

IMHO most innovations catch the fisherman, but like others have said, all the ponds/lakes/rivers between the atlantic and pacific keep folks looking for the next helicopter lure.

90% of what we have in Saltwater for lures originated in freshwater.

It's historical fact. And as far as we in the northeast are concerned with Striper fishing, excepting rigged eels, tin squids and eel bobs and skin rigs, lure manufacturers such as Creek Chub and Heddon influenced the famous makers of Striper specifics baits such as Gibbs, Pond and Sylvester.

Jerry Sylvester of Rhode Island was making lures (Flaptails bases on Heddon) in the late 30's. There may have been a few others but they were not commercially produced as were Sylvesters designs.

The Cape, which still can be that way, was slow to adopt as the most often dictum followed was that of "that was the way my Father showed me" and a hard train of thought to derail.

Nowadays look at Sluggos, and rubber which by the way was popular in the late forties and early fifties but waned with the upsurge in wooden plug making. I have a book by Ollie Rodman called "Striped Bass" written in 1944 that shows a rubber eel rig. Ollie was the original publisher of Saltwater Sportsman, which he founded with H.G. "Tap" Tapply in Boston in 1937. Somewhere in my archives I have a copy of the first issue. It was a 3 page newsletter printed in May of that year.

My two cents...
I think lure manufacturers need to keep changing things with freshwater lures since freshwater fish often see much more fishing pressure than saltwater fish. A 6-year old largemouth in a popular lake has seen dozens of lures in it's lifetime. They are smarter than you think. Catch one once on a rubber worm, and chances are that it will never eat one again. Most freshwater fish are released (as opposed to saltwater fish) and over time they get pretty savy.
Because of this, top freshwater anglers are always looking for lures that the fish haven't seen yet.
Little known fact: Freshwater bass fishing is the #1 most participated in sport in the US. It's a multi-billion dollar industry.

The changes in plugs serve to sell more plugs to fishermen who, we all know, need the latest design: I've got a cellar full of them. I do, however, disagree with fish getting used to lures, otherwise you'd never catch any on the old standbys like hula poppers, torpedos, rubber, rapalas, etc., etc. They may be wary, but if they were so smart, you'd never catch any, no?

My own personal opinion is that is just pure economics, as much as I dislike how some of the products are marketed thru shows with guys full of stickers on their shirts/hats boats with glitter and such, there are a lot more LM bass fisherman in this country than folks like us. I personally rather go out on the Surf and catch nothing than go on some lake and catch LM's all day, but then again I may be a little bias :jump:

Tight Lines Folks

I have a book by Ollie Rodman called "Striped Bass" written in 1944 that shows a rubber eel rig. Ollie was the original publisher of Saltwater Sportsman, which he founded with H.G. "Tap" Tapply in Boston in 1937.
I have that book it was handed down from my great grand father to my grandfather and then down to me.. its definately my most prized fishing book.

getting back to fresh vs salt- theres no doubt that freshwater is where the innovation is.

I think freshwater is faster to innovate, but also faster to jump on every friggin trend that comes along. Flipping through a Bass Pro catalog is nothing but an education in the latest hot trend. Now it's superfast casting reels, drop shot rigs, etc. When I was in high school, there was a trend to use super long rods or evel poles (In Fisherman was crazy about it). I remember one issue of Bass Pro where they said bublegum was the new hot color - so every lure came in bublegum. There's a fine line between cutting edge and blindly chasing cool.

With that said, the law of averages dictates that some of these trends have legitimate fish catching potential, and a smaller sampling of those can be applied to saltwater.

Maybe I'm just cynical, but I think of the freshwater bass crowd in general as a bunch of yokels who long to wear shirts with decals. And yes, I do fish for largemouths occasionally.

Conversely, I agree that sometimes saltwater guys can be too stuck in their ways, which is probably just as bad as the other extreme.

My two cents...
I think lure manufacturers need to keep changing things with freshwater lures since freshwater fish often see much more fishing pressure than saltwater fish. A 6-year old largemouth in a popular lake has seen dozens of lures in it's lifetime. They are smarter than you think. Catch one once on a rubber worm, and chances are that it will never eat one again. Most freshwater fish are released (as opposed to saltwater fish) and over time they get pretty savy.
Because of this, top freshwater anglers are always looking for lures that the fish haven't seen yet.
Little known fact: Freshwater bass fishing is the #1 most participated in sport in the US. It's a multi-billion dollar industry.

I agree100%

My bother a fresh water guru has stressed this to me many times...fish do get educated and become more selective over time, like striped bass there are small widows of oppertunity to take cow bass but that window is even smaller when it comes to large mouth. One of the lastest craz's in fresh water is the big black "Rat'' why? Because its a big bait and bass haven't see it but you throw that rat enough in same big bass spots and they pay no attention to it. Since I've become aware of the plug building world I can't help but ask for the 3rd time(atleast) when are one of you guys going to make a wood plug that has interchangable rubber body?...its the hottest trophy big bass bait goin in california...breakin records.

I want to go fishing:)

Being completely spoiled living on the coast my entire life......it would take alot to get me into fresh/pond/lakes. That being said, here's my 2cents//+

Since most of the country is not bordered on the coastline, I would think there may be more fresh water fisher(people) than salt, therefore drawing much more attention to fresh-water tackle. Visit ANY nation-wide (chain) sporting goods store whether it be on the coast or not and you'll see Fresh water tackle out numbers Saltwater tackle almost 10 to 1. As far as new and "innovative" tackle, in the retail world, if you want to succeed, you must re-invent the wheel every few seasons. People like to buy and try different things. Let's face it, fish will hit just about anything. Now take that "anything" and make it appealing to the human eye...and you've made a sale.

Do I think fish are smart enough to get educated and become more selective over time,,,,personally, NO. (Sorry Tony). I just can't give them that much credit. It could have been a philosophy started by the retail world in keeping the fishing crowd believing they need new and different tackle.

If you were stranded on an island with a box of kastmasters, you would not die of starvation. You would catch more species of fish than you could ever imagine. You would learn to fish those lures in ways you'd never have thought of because you would have no other choice. In the real world, you have that choice, the retail world gives you that choice. Fish aren't that smart in my opinion, but then again....neither am I

go ice fishing

Do I think fish are smart enough to ,,,personally, NO. (Sorry Tony). I just can't give them that much credit. It could have been a philosophy started by the retail world in keeping the fishing crowd believing they need new and different tackle.

If you were stranded on an island with a box of kastmasters, you would not die of starvation. You would catch more species of fish than you could ever imagine. You would learn to fish those lures in ways you'd never have thought of because you would have no other choice. In the real world, you have that choice, the retail world gives you that choice. Fish aren't that smart in my opinion

Why do you have to be such a pork & cheese?
We're talkin about two completely different habbits. Most fresh water bass live farely long lives because the majority of the fish are released that being said why don't more guys catch large mouth over 8#? Most of those fish over 8# are caught in the spring on live bait (natives) biggest shiners. From about mid april through the spring just about everyone is throwing spinner baits, you can only imagine how many spinner baits a 6 pound bass has seen. Fresh water heads are throw baits with conv gear casting their arms off, some all day and some getting the skunk, you can imagine in the course of just one year how many lures them fish have seen. I personely know many hardcore fresh water heads that have driven this point to me on this subject, not that difficult I know.
I'm with you on the kast master theory but you know how I feel when it comes to big bass....I got Pork& Cheese in me too:)

I think the fresh water guys are way ahead of the salt water guys. As pointed out ,many of the lures/ rubber we use were originaly for fresh water use, only to be modified for salt water. Large mouth bass can be caught all over the country. With sponsors and fishing tournaments, the fresh water crowd has a huge following. Maybe the biggest number for people partcipating in recreation in the country.

Since I've become aware of the plug building world I can't help but ask for the 3rd time(atleast) when are one of you guys going to make a wood plug that has interchangable rubber body?...its the hottest trophy big bass bait goin in california...breakin records.

It's been here for 2 years. From what I hear there should some more around soon!

hoo boy! what a loaded question! I am further "inland" than most of you so I fish both fresh and salt with inthusiasm for both. Certainly I would rather fish the surf but I know I cant do that 5 times a week so if I need to fish I will gladly hit the freshwater instead. I think most "innovation" comes from fresh just because its far more mainstream and far more available to the majority. I bet if there were a way to compare the amount of fresh and salt water innovation to the amount of corresponding anglers in percentages, your numbers would be about the same!

....oh and for what its worth you can bet your tooshie I stock my F.W. box with the some smaller S.W. lures and the S.W. box with larger F.W. stuff because you just never know.....:bl: