When fishing surface plugs (metal lips, finnish swimmers on top, floating needles, poppers, etc.) do you start your retrieve immediately upon the plug hitting the water or do you allow it to sit for awhile before beginning the retrieve? Or maybe even dead sticking with some twitches? Fast initial retrieve upon hitting the water? What works most oftentimes for you?

As far as floating needles, metal lips, swimmers...i am adament about letting them sit for about 10 seconds.....many times with reward. Poppers, I'll begin retrieve pretty quickly.

Cast to land in a splat

Rest easy 1000-1, 1000-2 to 10

Let her go.

See a disturbance in the force but no real aggression, ler her rest

Got a boil but no tension, sweep hard forward and let her sit

Start retreive but keep in water to rod tip.

Cast and repeat.

Zeno did an aticle for OTW which gave a good description of how to work the water with metal lips. I highly recommend that. I watched a friend out fish me while putting it into practice and have since adopted the same methods.

with poppers,pencils included start my retrive right away,metal lips I usually let sit a couple sec. not always depends on the water and spot I cast to.red fins I like dead sticking w/ some twitching easy easy easy meal for any striper hard for them to pass up.:uhuh:

I get really intimate about working my plugs so bear with me.

I used to spend alot of time fishing bridges. This gave me the opportunity to watch and see how baitfish get attacked while just swimming along the surface just outside that shadowline, OR a cloud-less summer day for that matter. What I learned I'm not sure I could possibly ever put down in words but what I can say, is that it helped me in being 1 with the plug, without being longwinded let me get back to your question :bl: ....

My initial retrieve will vary. It can be either nothing or a few quick turns of the handle or a 1/2 sweep of the tip. I look at it like this...

The second my plug hits the water, in my mind, it BECOMES a baitfish and I am it's puppateer:

Ok, SPLASH, it landed..... It either spooks or gets the attention of a nearby fish. (Spooking is good, they come back ;)) I'll sometimes let it sit. I've noticed that when single baitfish are being attacked there is a moment of assessment? (they'll freeze when seeing a predator), then they'll take off. A dead standstill shows a baitfish on guard and with just tightening your line, it can give it that very small movement almost preparing it to take off. Just reeling in your slack gives it that slightest action. Sometimes that alone can trigger a strike. A few small twitches against the current also works for me before the retrieve.
Times when the lure makes more of a splash than others, I will retrieve quickly for a few turns then stop. I feel it gives the impression that either this baitfish just jumped or a predator just attacked but the fleeing baitfish got away and it quickly moved out of the attack zone, hopefully a nearby striper attacks it before my imaginary predator returns :spin:
Sometimes I just slowly crank it in like a carefree baitfish just swimming along and sporadically make odd twitches and pauses trying to show some nervousness.
The current and wind factor also play a part in how I make my retrieve. I think the most important thing is having confidence in yourself that you are mimic'ing a baitfish to your best ability in the current environment as that also varies, strong currents versus bath-water situations etc.., the rest will take care of itself.
So to me, there is no right way...it all depends on how it lands, my mood, the conditions...how I caught the first one :hf1:

For poppers ... I use a method that Phil Schwinn wrote about in his book "Striped Bass and other Cape Cod Gamefish" ... cast it out, let the rings settle, pop it, let the rings settle, pot it, let the rings settle and continue to this practice ... it can be very effective.

However, fish will respond differently each time you fish, so you need to be flexible in your retrieves -- speed, etc. Don't be close minded to try different techniques if you're not catching anything on your old standby ...

... for pencils, I like to start working them as soon as possible ... my theory is they don't look natural and won't illicit a response from a bass unless they are thrashing about ... in fact, when pitching them from a boat, most of my hits come right when I am pulling it out of the rocks ... so I wouldn't recommend letting pencils sit ...

as for swimming plugs and metal lips ... the guys above have given good advice ... but just be ready to switch it up if your lures are not finding any takers ...

Generally... I start the retrieve right away. This past Nov 30, I was in SoCo and when my Danny landed... I had a loop sticking out of my reel... so I stripped line off until the loop came out, when I had re-gathered all my line I got ready to work my plug... well I though the heavy surf had rolled my plug into the boulders... that is until it took a hard left 26# fish took the plug down on a dead float. So I may experiment a little more with some dead sticking this season. On other occaisions I have dead sticked bombers at night when there was excessive fire in the water... this is a deadly method works well with floating needles too. Just let it sit there for like 1 minute... twitch reel... another minute.... Slam. Try it.

The other big question has to do with the chase... what do you do when that fish swells up on your plug and retreats... comes back again- big swirl and still won;t take? I have tried a million different things and they all work and they all fail! I'd like to hear some other angles on this.

In response to your question, check out this other recent thread.
http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/showthread.php?t=38026



The other big question has to do with the chase... what do you do when that fish swells up on your plug and retreats... comes back again- big swirl and still won;t take? I have tried a million different things and they all work and they all fail! I'd like to hear some other angles on this.

During one of my overhead experiences I witnessed 3 mid-teen sized bass raise my live-bait to the surface...they were circling it and each taking their turn at tail-whipping it. I cautiously and curiously watched as they just wouldn't swallow it. It was almost as if they were either playing with it, or it (the baitfish) just wasn't ready to be swallowed. When the baitfish had the chance it dove down, got nailed and quickly made it's way back to the surface...it looked a little beat up telling me that one of the stripers had it in her mouth. They rose again but never made an attempt to swallow it. A few more tail slaps and the baitfish started to sink...of course once out of sight, BANG!! Fish on -

Same day, same type of baitfish, same conditions - The baitfish got chased to the surface, slapped by one of the stripers and swallowed immediately by another (different) Striper -

:huh:

What that tells me, is that in the case of your lure being chased and "swirled" after....either a "dead sticking" method may work...hopefully showing that your imitation baitfish was stunned by the initial attack.....or a continuous steady retrieve showing the baitfish is still trying to escape. Unfortunately we don't always know when we've lost the attention of the following predator. I think if that particular Bass is in the "stun" mode and there isn't much competition around as far as other Bass, she may keep "slapping" it until she's satisfied that it won't give her any trouble when trying to swallow it. As far as it getting hit just as it's approaching the boat or shore tells me that the Bass knows it's entering safer waters and this is her last chance to swallow. I'm sure guys on here have had plenty of situations that went both ways...again, be confident in what your doing. It may work one day but not the next, doesn't mean you're doing someting wrong. Confidence is KEY!

Just my theory -

Unfortunately we don't always know when we've lost the attention of the following predator.
Free associating here, but I was once assigned to a country where it was difficult for me to fish, so I figured on practicing my fly casting on the lawn with just a piece of yarn tied to the end of the tippet.

Well, a few casts in I got surprised when a stray cat jumped out of the bushes to attack the yarn when I was retrieving it (lots of stray cats there). So it turned into a double game- cast the yarn, and then try to trigger the cat to "strike." Sounds awful, I'm sure PETA is coming after me as soon as I post this, but it gave me a chance to test different methods to get the cats to strike...sometimes they just wanted to watch it, sometimes they were hammering it as soon as it landed, and sometimes I would have them poised to strike the hole time and following it, but wouldn't strike it.

The takeaway? On different days, there were different retrieves, you just had to find out how the "Lawn Stripers" wanted it, and give it to them. But they liked the suspense when it wouldn't move...they would load up and often the longer one waited to move the yarn, the more explosive the hit...it was cool, you could watch their focus developing.

OK, now I'm going to get ready to be attacked by PETA...but this happened, it wasn't my plan, and none of the cats were hurt and all of them seemed to enjoy it more than a bit...

I wait til the rings in the water are gone. Twitch, wait not so long slowly bring it in. If that don't work then a faster jerkier retrieve.

before i used braid, i used to like to have the popper moving when it hit the water which was real productive for me...but with braid, there are too many chances of getting a little loop in my line so now i let the plug sit for a while...i still think having the popper moving when hitting the water produced more fish for me but braid offers other positive benefits...

cant wait for the winter to end!!!!!!!!!

There's a kabillion things you can do on impact.
Let it sit.
Twitch it.
Retreive it.
Rip it.

Mix it up, use them all, find what turns the fish on if they're hittin short on impact THAT time.

There is no 100% 'works every time' technique for every condition and every day.

There is no 100% 'works every time' technique for every condition and every day.[/quote]


THAT IS WHATKEEPS US COMING BACK, DAY IN, DAY OUT!

good thread

There is no 100% 'works every time' technique for every condition and every day.


THAT IS WHATKEEPS US COMING BACK, DAY IN, DAY OUT![/QUOTE]

Amen