Anyone you think gets too much credit?

I know this will raise an argument :rollem: but I think Jimmy Page is a little overrated... don't get me wrong, the guy can really write but he's sloppy as hell...

Eric Clapton comes to mind.

Eric Clapton comes to mind.

:claps:

Page too.. genious,, but.. he performed sloppy several times, as stated. Twas the era tho.. lot of them performed under the influence, and it shows, when ya watch the old films.

Joan Jett and Bassmaster:spin: and most of the guitarist's that hide behind the volume knob. Hard to say as I really don't listen to guys that are not good or appeal to my taste's. I figure if I can figure out what they are doing then they must not be too good:D

Clapton again. The older I get the less I care for the style.

Hard to say as I really don't listen to guys that are not good.

:laughs:

I hear you guys on Clapton too, another guy who can really write but for him it's not sloppiness it's just that he's just adequate, not impressive.

Slash and Kurt Cobain (I Know I mentioned this before) come to mind.

I'd have to say my brother in law ... he's a great guitarist and all, but no Jimmy Hendrix ... :laugha: ... sorry Bob, just kidding around ...:cheers:

You Clapton bashers are either A) Not a fan or B) You have never seen him play live! Sloppy......I don't think so! :doh:

Jimmy Page when he was not as polluted with drugs and burned out say....pre-1973.......was probably the best guitar player ever in my opinion!

To say these 2 are over rated???? Absurd!

Lets start the over rated list with someone whose overall body of work is narrow and "what has he done lately"!! Mr Edward Van Halen!

:nailem: You stole my thunder BF!! Saw Clapton on the From the Cradle tour in Worcester and the whole show was flawless. Both Clapton & Page were wacked just about all the time in the early days and they still could crank it out even when they didn't know where the fluck they were. Over rated, George Harrison comes to mind. Great musician, song writer. poet and humanitarian but just about an adequete rythmn guitarist never mind a lead.:confused::spin:

:nailem: You stole my thunder BF!! Saw Clapton on the From the Cradle tour in Worcester and the whole show was flawless. Both Clapton & Page were wacked just about all the time in the early days and they still could crank it out even when they didn't know where the fluck they were. Over rated, George Harrison comes to mind. Great musician, song writer. poet and humanitarian but just about an adequete rythmn guitarist never mind a lead.:confused::spin:

I've got to disagree on George Harrison being over rated!
The guy was all about tones and not about blistering speed like Eddie Van Halen, who in my opinion, is one of the most ever rated ever!
Carlos Santana is one guy who could do more with 1 single note than Van Halen did with 100 that he would play in 1 bar !

You Clapton bashers are either A) Not a fan or B) You have never seen him play live! Sloppy......I don't think so! :doh:
I knew that was coming:hee: Way too many variables to judge who is good and who sucks, although there are some really sucky players out there that make a lot of money. You like what you like. I really enjoy seeing the different tastes people have and have even checked out a few I never gave a shot to. I just like music and enjoy topics like this and of course the controversy involved:kewl:

Clapton S*CKS!!!!!!

No plugs for you Slingah!!:rolleyes:

Raider Ron.....I agree!!

Thomcat.....I am a huge Harrison fan and Raider Ron hit it right on the head....he was all about quality!! Not in the top 100 but definitely not over rated!

just kiddin' :tooth: :laugha:
it's all what chu like...

Clapton!!!!,

Blasphemy!
Just one example.....
Search for "clapton white room" on youtube. There is one on there from Birmingham NEC from 1986. The solo that starts at 4:05 in that song is one of the most spectacular things I have ever seen. He isn't just running his fingers up and down the neck of that guitar, that kind of stuff comes from deep within. I've had that vhs tape for 20 years (and now dvd) and could never get tired of watching it. That was during the Phil collins years and he did have some piped in backup vocals but it never detracted from his playing. I went to that line up in Providence in 1987 (and every show in the boston area since) and have never walked away less than amazed.

My .02.

As for overrated, I cant think of a guitarrist, but I will say that anything the record co's are putting out now as mainstream top 40 is pure crap! I don't actully listen much but just turing on the radio to look for something reveals a lot.

..i guess to each his own, imo clapton is top 5...... easy.

Neil Young is overrated if judge soley by chops...there's a million unknowns in LA alone who could blaze circles around Neil Technically.

But where it counts, conceptually and in his ability to communicate through his instrument, he's hardly limited at all, a B+ talent at worse who every once in a while hits an A+ stretch.

As Miles Davis said, the difference between a fair musician and a good musician is a good musician is a good musician can play anything he thinks. The difference between a good musician and a Great musician is what he thinks.

I'd call Neil Young a Fair musician who thinks like a great one. Or maybe, along with Ray Davies and a handful of others, the Best Bad Guitarist out there.

In the end, it's about communication and ideas, not pure musicianship, otherwise artists like Springsteen, REM, CCR, the Beatles, The Velvets and many others would never have attracted the broad fan bases that they have.

It's also why guys like Malmsteen and Joe Satriana and Eddie Van Halen will never be more than minor footnotes in rock and roll history. Great Talent, Pathetic Ideas.

I think the traditional 'guitar heroes' get too much bad press.

Steve Vai - a bad guitarist? Hardly! He's an incredible player with a varied and interesting career. He's played with everyone from Pil (with John Lydon) to Frank Zappa, to Nelly Furtado and David Lee Roth. I think people love supporting the underdog, which is why these guys get so muck. Some of Vai's music does not appeal to me, but if I said he couldn't play I'd be lying.

Tom Morello - His playing has to be put in context. When he did all those experimental solos at the beginning of the 90s, fret-widdling had been done to death. Morello pushed the boundaries on where a guitar solo could go. He is the guitar equivalent of a human beatbox. Clever stuff.

Neil Young - different category. Neil is an expressive player. I've heard him play solos that only use 2 notes - they fit the song perfectly. He doesn't use the guitar as a show-piece. It's a tool for song-writing.

Eddie Van Halen - Of course he played arena rock/hair metal! It was the 80s! Eddie Van Halen was a pioneer in a new form of guitar which has always been unfairly dismissed as 'irrelavent'. Is it possible that music journalists have convinced us that technical ability is a bad thing?

Which brings me to the point of this discussion...

The mid 90s and beyond, brought us some of the worst guitarists the world has ever seen as a backlash against 'fret widdlers'. Most Over-rated guitarist? That's easy -

Noel Gallagher (Oasis) - This guy is an absolute farce on guitar. He wires his pedals in the wrong way round on the first album. Not because it's 'inventive', because he's incompetent. Quote from Gallagher 'Scales are for f#&^ing fish!'. Noel only uses one scale (pentatonic), which goes backwards and forwards slowly on every song. Atrocious. He has no sense of feel, no music theory and no technical ability beyond 'bad busking'. It's not even 'punk'. He's redundant in every sense.

Oasis are one of the most successful bands in the UK. Media hype. You can convince people to buy anything these days.


just my 2 cents ;)

Katie:laugha: ....you are musically wise beyond your years!

Malmsteen......what a joke!!!

Katie:laugha: ....you are musically wise beyond your years!

Malmsteen......what a joke!!!


haha thanks, my fingers hurt after typing all that :spin: :hihi:

katie...you wrote that??? brilliant ....

well i had to get the subject off clapton, cause he's kinda underrated for me, although back when he was just coming out you could consider him overrated with all the media and whatnot, but not that he's not all out there like he was, i'd consider him right in between under and overrated.

if that makes any sense

I really try to stay away from these threads, music is too sensitive a subject for me.
SO I'll just hit one point.....Eric Clapton overrated? And thos ethat defended him. Lame responses.
If you think EC is overrated, you need to listen to John Mayall's bluesbreakers, post Yardbirds. pre-Cream Clapton. YOu will hear some of the BEST blues rock guitar ever, and he was lioke 18yrs old. He wrote the book for most of the rock guitar playing for the last 30yrs. Cream was one of the bet rock bands ever and Clapton's playing was fantastic. He, like most musicians has mellowed with age and he played some pretty lame opop crap too. But the man set the stage for rock guitar and its place in music, much like Elivs bridged the blues with black vocalists, EC bridged the playing of BB KIng, Buddy Guy, Otis Rush, etc and brought it to the mainstream.
OK, Im outta here,,,

Katie, that was a brilliant piece of writing! Nice work! A+++!

ya got to hear this record - its a piece of history

http://www.allmusicguide.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:vsjp7i3jg78r

you guys that are dissen clapton and page obviously need an education. I just can't belive you could say something like that when there are so many over rated flash in the pan one hit wonders out there.

Anyone you think gets too much credit?

I know this will raise an argument :rollem: but I think Jimmy Page is a little overrated... don't get me wrong, the guy can really write but he's sloppy as hell...

This is from someone who thought Billy Squire was the band that played "nobodys fault but mine" and lost a bet for coffee at Cumby's one night a few years ago. :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

Katie, that was a brilliant piece of writing! Nice work! A+++!



I agree, great Katie !!!
Both Pete Townsend & Neil are not very good players, but wrote some incredible music

:hihi:.. ah.. the "Clapton is God" crowd heard from..;)

Clapton is Good (very good), but not God.

Not Dissing him or Page.. just saying, they are over rated, put up too high on the pedestal.. Layla.. they had to bring in Duane Allman to save it, real bad time in EC's life, and it effected his playing.... just one example.. Jimmy, Jimi, and Eric, (and loads of others) when they had their *demons* all fell victom to sloppy play.. SRV in a documentry I saw years ago.. might have been channel 2.. went into great detail on all the legends & their "troubles"..
Seen Eric say similar in interviews.. the whole *God* thing makes him laugh.. he recommends a lot of guitar players over himself.. Albert Collins, BB King etc... heard Clapton say he (EC) is the most easiest to imitate.. just bend the strings on all the notes.. :hihi:

Yep. The whole "God" thing is what makes him overrated. That doesn't mean he's not good or even great, just not the guitar "God".

Eric Clapton is what he is. He is in a class by himself.
Over rated... depends on the type of music you like.
Estaban comes to mind.
Pete Townsend, great player
Actually, its very difficult for me to say who is over rated.
I enjoy Oasis' music.
I like Black Label Society and Megadeath. My father calls it "noise" (he is 84). He likes Tommy Dorsey and Glen Miller..so who is to say.
I've been a guitar hacker for 40 years. My kids say I'm "over rated".

I didn't say that EC or page are gods, but i do say that they do help set the bar when it comes to rating players. Granted there are single minded fans out there who will argue the god point. With me to this day alot of the gutairists made there impressions on me not just with there playing ability but with the atmosphere and emotions in which the music was played.

besides I saw God play back in the 70's he ain't all that:buds: :buds:

Hendrix, Clapton, Page......and then there is the rest! I am a huge SRV fan and I might even give him that lofty status....others might disagree! However I have seen SRV play live about 8 times and all 8 shows were the best concerts I have ever seen! Seen Clapton play live about as many times if not more......my opinion.....SRV would blow him away in a guitar duel!!!:rocketem:

Anyone here ever mentions Malmsteen in the same post with any of these guys.....your butt belongs to me!:bsod: :laugha:

Larry they are great players for sure but only 1 genre. There are so many other types of music out there with guitar involved with players that are equal to or miles ahead of those three., IMO. Which is only my opinion. It goes back to the you like what you like thing again. They are good though, I wouldn't say they stink that's for sure.

The E.C. defense:

Want proof Clapton was truly great?-- not "god"... (that was Jimi, even Eric admitted! Beck, Gilmour, Santana, & Lifeson were better too)... You must follow your ears to the right evidence! :grins:

You have to listen to the right/ best E.C. stuff! Yes, he was very inconsistent, & later commercial/ boring... but his best stuff is as good as anybody's except Jimi:

--"Layla (and other Love Songs)"... One of the 10- best studio albums ever-- simple! (& thankfully it's a double- album!). Amazing/ stupendous/ untouchable!! True, Duane Allman contributed equally as Eric... but whether he was "on the stuff" during the sessions or not, Eric's playing there was mind- blowing too! (never "sloppy!" Master blues- rock guitar, totally heartfelt & soulful... electric & acoustic). Very easy to pick out Erics' leads from Duanes' slide: please listen & judge for yourself. Huge credit too to Carl Radle, Jim Gordon & Bobby Whitlock-- all All- stars themselves!! (bass, drums & keyboards/ vocals, respectively)...

--"Disraeli Gears" and "Wheels of Fire"-- the Cream works most mean, when they say Cream was among the best bands ever! (IMHO they blew away the Beatles if what turns you on is instrumental brilliance, & poetic/ "psychedelic" themes/ lyrics... So many killer cuts/ Eric riffs just from these two records alone: "World of Pain," "Tales of Brave Ullysses," "Deserted Cities of the Heart," "Crossroads," & the solo esp. at the end of "Dance the Night Away!" :claps:

-- E.C. (double- live) "Just One Night"... One of the "top-3" Live guitar/ rock albums ever!! :boots: You won't get past the first cut ("Double Trouble") without agreeing E.C. is surely a "top- 5" rock- guitarist all- time! In fact, if you're like me you'll play that track 5 times before continuing on to the rest of the album! :faga:

Pretty much all E.C.'s other work, esp. solo albums were forgettable... except every now and then an awesome song or two would appear among 6-8 other weak/ filler ones... among these were: "Let it Grow" and "Mainline Florida" from "461 Ocean Bvld"... "Let it Rain" from "E.C."... and "See What Love Can Do" & "Just Like a Prisoner" from 1987's great "Behind the Sun" solo effort (w/ Phil Collins on 3 songs-- killer drums on "Just like a Prisoner")... :smokin:

"Just One Night" is a staple for me! Great Live album for sure!

You "non-Clapton fans" ever sit down and listen to the solo on Crossroads or White Room??? Sick, sick guitar work......almost sounds like 3 guitars are playing on Crossroads!!

Maybe not god but very, very good.
Overrated?
Pretty much anything that came out in the last ten years or so.
I was told by someone that everything that can be played already was.
All just variations on what already exists.
Yet to be proven wrong.

I was told by someone that everything that can be played already was.
All just variations on what already exists.

Kind of like building plugs. :kewl:


There are only a finite number of notes. It is pretty amazing how many different styles of music their are using the same ingredients.

Kind of like building plugs. :kewl:


There are only a finite number of notes. It is pretty amazing how many different styles of music their are using the same ingredients.

Any plugs I turn are only copies of something I saw HERE.
This site is the whole reason I got a lathe to begin with.
(Used poorly I might add)
I want tiger maple.

Finite number of notes.
Exactly.
Can you really think of anything that broke any kind of new ground?
Anything?

The "Edge"

Bernzy

The "Edge"

Bernzy

Absolutely.

New Ground. Sure there were people that did something first. There always is, but more in the way of combining different styles of music together rather than doing something completely different. The really great thing to see is that after someone becomes really good at something different, new, others take that technique and improve on it with there own interpretation, making it even better, but would have never gone that route until said person broke that new technique. Unfortunately the initiator doesn't always get the credit they deserve. Everyone uses the same notes from Beethoven to Sex Pistols and everything in between. Funny how one person hears one thing with the same notes that another doesn't. That is what makes it so great. It is an artistic endeavor something that you create, your signature. If people like it even better. If they don't, who cares, well if you are trying to make a living at it it matters. Problem is a lot of people consider a good player as someone who is a commercial success. Granted there are a lot of them but I don't. Matter of fact I look for music that flies under the radar a little, out of the radio realm, with exception to WGBH, because that is where I feel are the truly suburb musicians. Studio guys and people that play for the art of it. Try different things, experiment. Guess that is why I am a fan of Zappa. Don't get me wrong I have listened too all the commercial bands growing up but my tastes have changed so much in the last 25 years. I'm sure anyone would like something I listen too. I try to listen to everything. Something different every nite, but I still have my favorites. The way I look at it is it's all good, well most of it. :rollem: What a wind bag. :uhoh: P.

I disagree with the Edge being overrated.....his style is pretty unique, maybe not the most technical player...but when you hear him you know it's him....not said of alot of players

Steve Miller.:doh:

Regarding the Clapton debate (I happen to think Rhode Island's own Duke Robillaird is twice the blues guitarist as Clapton) this is a little off topic but check out "Tom Dowd and the Language of Music" available now on Comcast (free) on-demand. Dowd was an absolutely legendary recording engineer, and you will not believe the innovations he brought about in the recording industry from the late 50s right into the 90s. He was the engineer for the Layla album and you will have new respect for what those guys who work behind the scenes do. You can learn more at www.thelanguageofmusic.com