This question was prompted by an email I received, details to follow.

Thats a Big "NO!"

ILLEGAL means ILLEGAL !!! nothing,nada,nfw.

NO!!!!!!
I can't say "NO" loud enough. When they come into this country "illegally" they are a criminal and will stay that way until the person goes back to the country they came from. I will welcome anyone coming here legally that learns the language, melds into the populous and loves this land for what it is, lock, stock, and barrel.
GRRRRR. Out here this is a very sore subject.

NO!!!!!!
I can't say "NO" loud enough. When they come into this country "illegally" they are a criminal and will stay that way until the person goes back to the country they came from. I will welcome anyone coming here legally that learns the language, melds into the populous and loves this land for what it is, lock, stock, and barrel.
GRRRRR. Out here this is a very sore subject.

What he said,,, I see the bad part of it all the time when I am on the MX border..

NO

I would have been very dissapointed if even one person said yes.

Its bad enough that by the time I am old enough to recieve any of it, the funds will be exhausted but yet they still take it from my paycheck. What a load of $hit that is.

The following senators voted to give illegal aliens Social Security benefits. They are grouped by home state. If a state is not listed, there was no voting representative.
This gives us an idea who our elected officials truly represent.

Alaska : Stevens (R)
Arizona : McCain (R)
Arkansas : Lincoln (D) Pryor (D)
California : Boxer (D) Feinstein (D)
Colorado : Salazar (D)
Connecticut : Dodd (D) Lieberman (D) Delaware : Biden (D) Carper (D)
Florida : Martinez (R)
Hawaii : Akaka (D) Inouye (D)
Illinois : Durbin (D) Obama (D)
Indiana: Bayh (D) Lugar (R)
Iowa: Harkin (D)
Kansas: Brownback (R)
Louisiana: Landrieu (D)
Maryland: Mikulski (D) Sarbanes (D)
Massachusetts: Kennedy (D) Kerry (D)
Montana: Baucus (D)
Nebraska: Hagel (R)
Nevada: Reid (D)
New Jersey: Lautenberg (D) Menendez (D)
New Mexico: Bingaman (D)
New York: Clinton (D) Schumer (D)
North Dakota : Dorgan (D)
Ohio : DeWine (R) Voinovich(R)
Oregon : Wyden (D)
Pennsylvania : Specter (R)
Rhode Island : Chafee (R) Reed (D)
South Carolina : Graham (R)
South Dakota : Johnson (D)
Vermont : Jeffords (I) Leahy (D)
Washington : Cantwell (D) Murray (D)
West Virginia : Rockefeller (D), by Not Voting
Wisconsin : Feingold (D) Kohl (D)

All these goverment officials are ONLY thinking about their political agenda
not what the citizens they represent want.

Dodd doesn't surprise me. Lieberman raises an eyebrow. I thought he was supposed to be a Bush cronie? Kennedy, no surprise there. Clinton and Obama:hs:

This is the problem when people get all their political information from spam emails intending to manipulate reality, they fall far to fast into the partisan trappings spreading and repeating the misinformation...just as intended.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/socialsecurity.asp

-spence

There has never been a vote to allow illegals to get SS. You all has been duped.

Edit - or what spence said

So how much damage was done as a result of this thread, and what kind of penalty should Stripersnpr be required to pay?

-spence

So Snopes description of partially true totally discounts the entire premise?

So Snopes description of partially true totally discounts the entire premise?


well... partially true seems to be par for the course with you republican follks... :doh:

This is the problem when people get all their political information from spam emails intending to manipulate reality, they fall far to fast into the partisan trappings spreading and repeating the misinformation...just as intended.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/socialsecurity.asp

-spence


I totally Agree with Spence on this.

You should know your facts. I'll try and dumb it down some for you. If someone is an Illegal Alien.

They DO NOT have a valid SSI / TIN or ITIN (if you dont know what the second two are you shouldnt have bothered entering in this conversation).

Yes, that means IF they can find work they are TAXED, same as you and me...

But they CANNOT file taxes, because well their # is usually fake.... refund good.. Johnny law at your door bad...

Remember that next time youre doing your write offs and mostly just when you get your refund checks....yes these folks are actually paying into the gov't and are never getting a dime back....

The same way they are not entitled to a tax refund, they are not entitled to any other TAX benefits, besides BEING taxed same as anyone else...

This concludes todays common sense lesson.

So Snopes description of partially true totally discounts the entire premise?
Hmmmm...

Roses are red, violets are blue and the decline of river herring is caused by an excess of orange crayons in the 3 packs at Pub 99.

The above statement is also "partially true".

Do the math, or keep digging.

-spence

NFW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What part if "ILLEGAL" is confusing to some !!!

well... partially true seems to be par for the course with you republican follks... :doh:

Coming from the party that worships the parlayer of this truth: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman"......your opinion on truth is moot.

:beat:

Hmmmm...

Roses are red, violets are blue and the decline of river herring is caused by an excess of orange crayons in the 3 packs at Pub 99.

The above statement is also "partially true".

Do the math, or keep digging.

-spence

Come on Spence tell the truth, you didn't even register a vote on this poll because you didn't want to be the only one on with a yes vote. :chatter

Coming from the party that worships the parlayer of this truth: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman"......your opinion on truth is moot.

:beat:

imo, where biil stuck it was and still is his business.. not mine, not yours. oh.... and no one died when he lied

imo, where biil stuck it was and still is his business.. not mine, not yours. oh.... and no one died when he lied

I'm glad we agree he's a liar. :nailem:

But are you also refering to Bush lying about WMD in Iraq? Or was that Bill who lied about WMD in Iraq? The subject of truth vs, lies gets very cloudy and confusing when Slick enters the topic. But I think I understand where your coming from. When Bush claimed Iraq had WMD in 2001 it was a lie, but when Clinton claimed Iraq had WMD in Iraq in 2001 it wasn't a lie.......isn't that how you guys chant it? Blood for oil man.

OK, I have to pipe in here. Tell me what you think of this??? I am considered an illegal immagrant. Before you flip out, hear my story. I was born in 1961 in Canada, and adopted by my biological aunt & uncle when I was 3 weeks old. I have lived here my entire life, and have worked since I was 10 years old. I have paid my taxes and into Social Security my entire life. I have always been told that I had dual citizenship. Last May, I applied for a passport, and was denied. They now tell me that my parents did not file the proper paperwork when the brought me into the country 45 years ago, and because of that, I am here illegally, and am told, that I will not be eligible for Social Security benefits, even though I have paid them my entire life, until I get an Alien Residence Card, (green card). Now, my parents were unaware they did not file everything they should have, and I just found out about this a year ago at the age of 45. I did not sneak in to the country at 3 weeks old!! Yet, the government feels they should punish me? I speak perfect english, seeing I went to school, and college here, and now own my own business. I sound and look as American as the next guy. Do you feel I should be punished, and not allowed benefits, even though I paid into it my whole life, for something that was completely out of my control. I love this country, but the people in our government that say I am not a citizen, and am illegal, are idiots. I did nothing, but I am referred to as illegal. For the last year, great expense to me, and hundreds of hours of my time, have been spent proving how long I have lived here, and trying to obtain a "Green Card", so I can stay here, which is an insult to me, after living here for my entire live, with the exception of the first 3 weeks. I know my entire bioligical family, and my brother is in Canada, and dieing of cancer. I am not allowed to see him before he dies, or attend the funeral, or I will not be allowed to return to the United States. Now tell me this country is not over reacting. Sorry to vent, and be so long winded, but this is not fair.

Come on Spence tell the truth, you didn't even register a vote on this poll because you didn't want to be the only one on with a yes vote. :chatter

It's a stupid question.

Here, answer this.

I think:

1) Gay people should be banned from the United States

2) Gay people should stay and be forced to make wubba wubba love with the Stripersnpr

So which is it? Why can't you answer the question?

-spence

Frightnight - sorry to hear of your brother being so ill.

I still don't think "illegal aliens" should be able to receive benefits of most kind. Frightnight, in your case there is something just wrong about this. How early are you into trying to get your citizenship status fixed?

frightnite sorry about your brother. That sucks and is wrong.

Yea, what a story. That must be incredibly frustrating. Last year you would have been able to cross and return with just a drivers license and social security card.

Does the process allow you to legally fix the situation as you need to?

-spence

OK, I have to pipe in here. Tell me what you think of this??? I am considered an illegal immagrant. Before you flip out, hear my story. I was born in 1961 in Canada, and adopted by my biological aunt & uncle when I was 3 weeks old. I have lived here my entire life, and have worked since I was 10 years old. I have paid my taxes and into Social Security my entire life. I have always been told that I had dual citizenship. Last May, I applied for a passport, and was denied. They now tell me that my parents did not file the proper paperwork when the brought me into the country 45 years ago, and because of that, I am here illegally, and am told, that I will not be eligible for Social Security benefits, even though I have paid them my entire life, until I get an Alien Residence Card, (green card). Now, my parents were unaware they did not file everything they should have, and I just found out about this a year ago at the age of 45. I did not sneak in to the country at 3 weeks old!! Yet, the government feels they should punish me? I speak perfect english, seeing I went to school, and college here, and now own my own business. I sound and look as American as the next guy. Do you feel I should be punished, and not allowed benefits, even though I paid into it my whole life, for something that was completely out of my control. I love this country, but the people in our government that say I am not a citizen, and am illegal, are idiots. I did nothing, but I am referred to as illegal. For the last year, great expense to me, and hundreds of hours of my time, have been spent proving how long I have lived here, and trying to obtain a "Green Card", so I can stay here, which is an insult to me, after living here for my entire live, with the exception of the first 3 weeks. I know my entire bioligical family, and my brother is in Canada, and dieing of cancer. I am not allowed to see him before he dies, or attend the funeral, or I will not be allowed to return to the United States. Now tell me this country is not over reacting. Sorry to vent, and be so long winded, but this is not fair.


I'd read about this sometime last year the publication excapes me at the moment. Basically it dealt with a few folks who were under the impression that they were canadian, but were considered american because of a status declared on some form. I think they were then mailed something and given x amount of time to pick either us or canada. If they never responded whomever was processing the foms or lack there of made the decision.

is a CANADIAN spy....sent here as a BABY spy

to uncover all of our American top secret plug design's

sent here by the prime ministers grandaddy who was known
to be a plug collector... and striper fisherman

he's been living among us like a live ticking timebomb
waiting to strike under the PLUG jihad.... and we never even
saw him coming lol....

no really,
thats about as a rediculous story ...as what you just said
and that totally sucks that you have this crap riding over you....

on the other hand...
you are quite legal to buy Canadian property
as a citizen of Canada ...
think hunting lodge or
ocean view..... :kewl: just for FUN
https://www.dignam.com/free/

It is not fair but illegal immigrants should not receive and US goverment benefits. Your circumstances are unusual as compare to the scores of people who cross the border with intent to deceive. But illegal is illegal and the rule should apply until the circumstances can be proven otherwise or a reasonable documented explanation can be reviewed and a determination made as to what your status should be.


But a good immigration lawyer should be able to help.

It's a stupid question.

Here, answer this.

I think:

1) Gay people should be banned from the United States

2) Gay people should stay and be forced to make wubba wubba love with the Stripersnpr

So which is it? Why can't you answer the question?

-spence

Ummm.........because it's stupid and rhetorical?

I totally Agree with Spence on this.

You should know your facts. I'll try and dumb it down some for you. If someone is an Illegal Alien.

They DO NOT have a valid SSI / TIN or ITIN (if you dont know what the second two are you shouldnt have bothered entering in this conversation).

Yes, that means IF they can find work they are TAXED, same as you and me...

But they CANNOT file taxes, because well their # is usually fake.... refund good.. Johnny law at your door bad...

Remember that next time youre doing your write offs and mostly just when you get your refund checks....yes these folks are actually paying into the gov't and are never getting a dime back....

The same way they are not entitled to a tax refund, they are not entitled to any other TAX benefits, besides BEING taxed same as anyone else...

This concludes todays common sense lesson.
Not true,check the stats. H&R Block recently announced a huge increase in the number of illegals coming in to file returns using their newly aquired TIN.Illegals know that when the IRS issues them a TIN the information is protected under confidentiality laws.Thank Bank Of America,H&R Block and Jackson-Hewitt for letting illegals know that the IRS can't legally share that information with the INS.Bank of America issues credit cards and offers loans and mortgages to illegals using a TIN in place of a SS#.Do the research this is all absolutely true.It really is time to pack 'em up and ship 'em the hell out.

folks who've got a tin to begin with arent illegal aliens. These are folks with work visas etc. They're in the country legit. :eek:

folks who've got a tin to begin with arent illegal aliens. These are folks with work visas etc. They're in the country legit. :eek: Not true vic,please do the research.What is an ITIN?
An Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) is a tax processing number issued by the Internal Revenue Service. It is a nine-digit number that always begins with the number 9 and has a 7 or 8 in the fourth digit, example 9XX-7X-XXXX.
IRS issues ITINs to individuals who are required to have a U.S. taxpayer identification number but who do not have, and are not eligible to obtain a Social Security Number (SSN) from the Social Security Administration (SSA).
ITINs are issued regardless of immigration status because both resident and nonresident aliens may have U.S. tax return and payment responsibilities under the Internal Revenue Code.
Individuals must have a filing requirement and file a valid federal income tax return to receive an ITIN, unless they meet an exception.

This is a no brainer, whether a vote was taking or not. What part of illegal do you not understand. They sneak in to this country ahead of all the immigrants who, because of water boundaries or a respect for law, wait their turn. They are encouraged to do this by their national govenment as a way of alleiviating (sp) that countrie's social problems. Now they are telling us they are staying. NFW. End of rant!

the constitution of the united states gives us the right
to assemble as US Citizens but that doesn't apply
to non citizens in my opinion and we could actually take the opportunity
to card everyone and deport them in mass quantities if we wanted to.

As far as MOTHERS COMING HERE pregnant and having an American born baby
doesn't grant them citizenship .... nor should it ever !!
or the pregnant women from all country's would be arriving . :smokin:
they are anyways... but we can't encourage it

FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK NO.

I have been working for SS wages for 22 years.
From my first job in 1985 until now.
A chunk comes out for SS. Always.
That is supposed to be for ME.
As it stands.. I hear there will be nothing left by the time I retire.
Why the F would I want to give it to someone else?
No way. Mine mine mine.

Get in line.
Wait your turn.
Don't like it? Too Fn bad.

This is a no brainer, whether a vote was taking or not. What part of illegal do you not understand. They sneak in to this country ahead of all the immigrants who, because of water boundaries or a respect for law, wait their turn. They are encouraged to do this by their national govenment as a way of alleiviating (sp) that countrie's social problems. Now they are telling us they are staying. NFW. End of rant!


Ding!
Right answer
Illegal means illegal.

NO nunca :bl:

http://travel.state.gov/travel/tips/regional/regional_1170.html by car or train you only need a licence and birth certificate till 08 then you will need a passport We have a trip going up soon had to check all of this for the driver.

the constitution of the united states gives us the right
to assemble as US Citizens but that doesn't apply
to non citizens in my opinion and we could actually take the opportunity
to card everyone and deport them in mass quantities if we wanted to.

As far as MOTHERS COMING HERE pregnant and having an American born baby
doesn't grant them citizenship .... nor should it ever !!
or the pregnant women from all country's would be arriving . :smokin:
they are anyways... but we can't encourage it I found this info to counter the Gov't claim that rounding them up is too expensive. http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecentersf13 4

WHEN WHATS HER FACE BECOMES PRESIDENT iLLEGALS WILL HAVE MORE BENEFITS THAN ANYONE WHO WAS BORN HERE.:lossinit:

tHE ONLY THING ILLEGALS SHOULD GET IS A BUS TICKET TO THE BORDER.

cOME IN THE LEGAL WAY NO PROBLEM, ILLEGAL YOUR OUTA HERE.

As much as some people will fight and argue against the notion, illegal immigration is in my opinion, the single greatest economic threat this country faces. Today millions of criminal aliens are rallying for increased services and rights that they are not entitled to while waving the flag of a foreign country. Our Government on both sides has no intention of doing a damn thing about it for fear of offending a voting block and being labeled with the R word. Democrat or Republican, Americans need to unite on this issue before our votes are worthless.

As much as some people will fight and argue against the notion, illegal immigration is in my opinion, the single greatest economic threat this country faces.
This notion is absurd, and I'd argue not backed by any real facts. For all the drain on social services there's a huge offset in worker productivity and tax revenues.

The single greatest economic threat to this country is global disruption to energy.

-spence

actually the single greatest threat to our economy is george bush.

sorry had to throw that one out there :hihi:

This notion is absurd, and I'd argue not backed by any real facts. For all the drain on social services there's a huge offset in worker productivity and tax revenues.

The single greatest economic threat to this country is global disruption to energy.

-spence

LMAO....the only thing absurd is your dismissal of an opinion shared by many minds far greater than yours. Tell us exactly what that offset is or I'll just consider it more Moonbat drivel unsupported by fact.

It's all Bush's fault...:bl2:

LMAO....the only thing absurd is your dismissal of an opinion shared by many minds far greater than yours. Tell us exactly what that offset is or I'll just consider it more Moonbat drivel.

spence is right. Think about it. Our country can do something to solve imigration problems, but look what happened when a nation threatened to sell their oil on the euro and not the US dollar??

Is this that HUGE offset you're talking about?

spence is right. Think about it. Our country can do something to solve imigration problems, but look what happened when a nation threatened to sell their oil on the euro and not the US dollar??

I agree our country can do something about the illegal immigration issue and we can also do something about dependence on foreign energy. Both pose serious threats until something is actually done about them.

if you had a magic wand....

and with a wave of your hand you could
deport all illegal aliens out of this country
right back to brazil and mexico ect.

it would plunge us instantly into a recession
if not another depression.....

we are as dependent upon their labor as much
as we are dependent on foreign oil....

you have to physically see the many miles and
miles of orange groves,vineyards and other row crop
acreages in florida and california to realize the
enormous job it is to harvest food in the USA.

so until we robotize this nation with several million
illegal alien replacements we need them for the economy.

LMAO....the only thing absurd is your dismissal of an opinion shared by many minds far greater than yours. Tell us exactly what that offset is or I'll just consider it more Moonbat drivel unsupported by fact.

First you justify your argument that it's the largest threat.

You made the claim.

-spence

First you justify your argument that it's the largest threat.

You made the claim.

-spence
Global disruption of energy could happen and would be disasterous to our economy. A half mile wide comet could also strike New York causing an unprecedended economic meltdown. Illegal immigrants are now, today, draining our social economic systems, stealing jobs, overburdening our health care, educational, and penal systems, stealing more jobs, lowering wages of the working class, etc. etc. to the point of near disaster. Thats what makes illegal immigration a more real, present threat to our economy today than the myriad of things that could possibly happen.

That's not justification...it's a silly rant.

You think energy disruption is on par with interplanetary disruption? You do realize there's more to the paper than just the Lifestyle section, right? :hee:

Show me some quantification, what's the drain in real dollars...then you have something to compare.

-spence

That's not justification...it's a silly rant.

You think energy disruption is on par with interplanetary disruption? You do realize there's more to the paper than just the Lifestyle section, right? :hee:

Show me some quantification, what's the drain in real dollars...then you have something to compare.

-spence
Nice bob, but a crappy weave. Refer to the Center for Immigration studies table posted above and if thats not enough quantification for you extrapolate on it and consider those are 2002 numbers and the situation has clearly gotten worse. Now tell us how your "Huge Offset" theory nullifies those facts.

Your comparison of the possibilty of Global Energy Disruption to the current Illegal Immigration occurence is like saying the Great White shark that might come out of the depths and eat you is more of a threat than the Tiger Shark that already has you in its jaws becuase it's bigger and badder.

First your table is stoopid.

And I mean stoopid.

It's comparing illegal households which are going to be low to perhaps mid income earners, to a non weighted US average that includes the top wage earners who pay most of the taxes.

-spence

First your table is stoopid.

And I mean stoopid.

It's comparing illegal households which are going to be low to perhaps mid income earners, to a non weighted US average that includes the top wage earners who pay most of the taxes.

-spence

My table? You must mean the table compiled by a respected independent non-partisan organization. I knew you would hate those facts but....... who cares. You can downplay the impact illegal immigration has on our country all you want but at the end of the day fortunately, you are a member of a very small minority.

My table? You must mean the table compiled by a respected independent non-partisan organization. I knew you would hate those facts but....... who cares. You can downplay the impact illegal immigration has on our country all you want but at the end of the day fortunately, you are a member of a very small minority.
Whiff!

Read my post and actually respond...

-spence

Whiff!

Read my post and actually respond...

-spence

I was going to but the old adage of "Teaching a Pig to sing" came to mind.

you are a member of a very small minority.
yes and that minority is called 'intelectual free thinkers' :hihi: I claim membership as well.

yes and that minority is called 'intelectual free thinkers' :hihi: I claim membership as well.

I've heard it called other names too. :humpty:

genious comes to mind.

I was going to but the old adage of "Teaching a Pig to sing" came to mind.
No singing necessary, just admit you're wrong and all is right :hihi:

-spence

No singing necessary, just admit you're wrong and all is right :hihi:

-spence

Okay, I'm sure you already know the words but repeat after me: :wave:
Kumbaya, my Lord, Kumbaya,
Kumbaya, my Lord, Kumbaya,
Kumbaya, my Lord, Kumbaya, oh, Lord, Kumbaya.
Someone`s singing, Lord, Kumbaya,
someone`s singing, Lord, Kumbaja.
Someone`s singing, Lord, Kumbaya, oh Lord, Kumbaya.
Someone`s praying, Lord, Kumbaya,
Someone`s praying, Lord, Kumbaya.
Someone`s praying, Lord, Kumbaya, oh Lord, Kumbaya.
Someone`s crying, Lord, Kumbaya,
someone`s crying, Lord, Kumbaya.
Someone`s crying, Lord, Kumbaya, oh, Lord, Kumbaya.
Someone`s sleeping Lord, Kumbaya,
someone`s sleeping, Lord, Kumbaya.
Someone`s sleeping, Lord, Kumbaya, oh, Lord, Kumbaya.

Okay, I'm sure you already know the words but repeat after me: :wave:
voter fraud, my Lord, Kumbaya,
faouty intelegence, my Lord, Kumbaya,
corrupt senators, my Lord, Kumbaya, oh, Lord, Kumbaya.
I hope the next ones better, Lord, Kumbaya,
I hope he is smarter than a squirrell, Lord, Kumbaja.
I hope hes not another cowboy, Lord, Kumbaya, oh Lord, Kumbaya.
Someone`s and idiot, Lord, Kumbaya,
Someone`s inempt, Lord, Kumbaya.
Someone`s lieing, Lord, Kumbaya, oh Lord, Kumbaya.
Someone`s crying, Lord, Kumbaya,
someone`s crying, Lord, Kumbaya.
Someone`s crying, Lord, Kumbaya, oh, Lord, Kumbaya
:wavey:

Snipr is a very articulate and well reasoned debater. A master debater of sorts you could say :bshake:

It must be difficult when you post facts that refute your own argument :rotfl:

-spence

That was good but for the full effect it needs to be sung in a high pitched whiny voice. :grins:

I like the American version better though.

Kumbaya #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, Kumbaya
Kumbaya #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, Kumbaya
Moneys in the freezer #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, Kumbaya
But thats okay #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, Kumbaya
Documents in the sock #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, Kumbaya
But thats okay #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, Kumbaya
Vote for a war #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, Kumbaya
Then Run Away #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, Kumbaya
Your President was impeached #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, Kumbaya
Your President was disbarred #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, Kumbaya
He says there was WMD #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, Kumbaya
Was he lying #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&? Kumbaya
Oh #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& Kumbaya
Someones praying #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, Kumbaya
Sue their ass #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, Kumbaya
Hate the rich #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, Kumbaya
Unless it's you #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, Kumbaya
Blood for oil #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, Kumbaya
Dont drill here #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, Kumbaya
Move to France #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, Kumbaya
You'd like it better #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&, Kumbaya

Oh #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& Kumbaya :thanks:

*sigh*

i don't know about you guys, but most of the illegal aliens i see around me work their gazoongas off to send money back to their families. most of these are mexicans, etc.

they take jobs nobody wants. they do unsafe and dirty work nobody does. compared to the rest of us they are willing to work for peanuts. they do it without benefits (well, except in cali). they crib in groups and eat instant noodles 24/7 to save money. their work ethic put some of us to shame.

i can't help but have a sincere admiration for these people living on hardscrabble, regardless of how they got here.

did i mention many are serving in our armed forces, fighting and dying for the rest of us? and they're not citizens.

your perspective might depend on where you live. people who live in Cali and the southern border states (Texas for example) might be up their eyeballs in illegal-related crime. here on the east coast, i don't see it that much. maybe i am out of touch.

the reality is that they are here and more than a few of us find that for the most part they are wanted/needed.

we really should have some kind of guest worker program, to legitimize their presence here (take a headcount and collect tax revenue!).

i'm not saying we have to offer citizenship or even certain benefits (is it fair for them to take benefits once they start paying taxes?), but there ought to be a way to track 'em - allow the law-abiding productive ones to come and go and keep the bad apples out.

i feel bad for immigrants in a post-9/11 world. it really sucks for them now. i have a lot of co-workers here who are here on a work-visa. if they get laid off by their employer, they have no choice but to hunt for another sponsor (not easy!) or be deported. i don't know if i could live with that kind of nerve-wracking uncertainty.

NFW!

Snipr is a very articulate and well reasoned debater. A master debater of sorts you could say :bshake:

It must be difficult when you post facts that refute your own argument :rotfl:

-spence

Wow, you'll twist anything in defense of illegal immigration wont you?

Wow, you'll twist anything in defense of illegal immigration wont you?
Yes, I guess I did go a little overboard on your debating ability :humpty:

-spence

*sigh*

i feel bad for immigrants in a post-9/11 world. it really sucks for them now. i have a lot of co-workers here who are here on a work-visa. if they get laid off by their employer, they have no choice but to hunt for another sponsor (not easy!) or be deported. i don't know if i could live with that kind of nerve-wracking uncertainty.

Illegal aliens and immigrants here on a valid work visa are two completley different issues. While I sympatihize with the plight of those workers who are in danger of losing their sponsor I feel worse for the skilled trades workers who spent the winter on unemployment while illegal immigrants performed their jobs for a fraction of the money. Framing, roofing, sheet rocking, tiling etc. etc. are not jobs Americans dont want to do.

Yes, I guess I did go a little overboard on your debating ability :humpty:

-spence

I noticed you still haven't voted in the poll. :rotf2:

Snipr is a very articulate and well reasoned debater. A master debater of sorts you could say :bshake:

It must be difficult when you post facts that refute your own argument :rotfl:

-spence

The fact that the average illegal alien household (those that aren't working under the table) paid in 2002, $4,912in taxes and cost the government $6,949 in expenses supports my argument, not yours. Where is that huge offset you were refering to? And while you are at it, what exactly is your point? Are you trying to convince somebody that we should chill out about illegal immigration, its not that bad? When was the last time someone in your industry was under-bid by unlicensed, uninsured, unqualifed criminals? How many employees did you lay-off in the past year because their work was lost to illegal immigrants? But I guess if it doesn't effect you personally it's all good, right? Why don't you try supporting those who are trying to earn a living in their own country for a decent wage, it's the decent thing to do.

Read my own posts again you shrimp-less fool!

My response was in context of your absurd statement that...

As much as some people will fight and argue against the notion, illegal immigration is in my opinion, the single greatest economic threat this country faces.

Which you have yet to back up with a single fact!

The chart you keep citing as evidence is comparing a net loss per illegal with an average based on a progressive tax system. The legal tax payers only slightly break even because the rich pay most of the taxes.

You don't even know your own GOP talking points!

Keep digging :wave:

-spence

Read my own posts again you shrimp-less fool!

My response was in context of your absurd statement that...



Which you have yet to back up with a single fact!

The chart you keep citing as evidence is comparing a net loss per illegal with an average based on a progressive tax system. The legal tax payers only slightly break even because the rich pay most of the taxes.



You don't even know your own GOP talking points!

Keep digging :wave:

-spence

The rich pay most of the taxes? You don't even know your own Code-Pink Talking points!

Catch up with the real world and understand this isn't about politics it's about real people, real jobs, real facts and real dollars. Downplay it all you want..........where are those facts on the huge offset that you used as an unsupported argument again? And seeing how you avoided the questions I guess we can assume you weren't under-bid by unlicensed, uninsured, unqualifed criminals, or were forced to lay-off employees in the past year because their work was lost to illegal immigrants, so no problem. I can read off the top of my head dozens of guys who have lost jobs to illegals, but I can't think of a single one who has lost anything to the disruption of global energy supplies. Ask them what's the biggest threat. Thanks for validating the singing pig theory (again).

:lurk:

The rich pay most of the taxes? You don't even know your own Code-Pink Talking points!

Catch up with the real world and understand this isn't about politics it's about real people, real jobs, real facts and real dollars. Downplay it all you want..........where are those facts on the huge offset that you used as an unsupported argument again? And seeing how you avoided the questions I guess we can assume you weren't under-bid by unlicensed, uninsured, unqualifed criminals, or were forced to lay-off employees in the past year because their work was lost to illegal immigrants, so no problem. I can read off the top of my head dozens of guys who have lost jobs to illegals, but I can't think of a single one who has lost anything to the disruption of global energy supplies. Ask them what's the biggest threat. Thanks for validating the singing pig theory (again).

The real world? Are you 'effin kidding me???

In the real world US Corporations screw over millions of legal workers in the name of shareholder value on a continual basis.

You seem to have let your emotion override your judgement and reason.

-spence

Ok, after a good nights sleep I came to the realization you're just a flaming hypocrite and just don't know it :)

The illegal immigration from Mexico doesn't come from all over Mexico, it's really more from specific areas that are really economically depressed. The people of Mexico tend to be more socialist than in the USA ...where we put the emphasis on personal responsibility (i.e. pull yourself up by your own bootstraps).

Those crossing the border, and most other Mexicans see the illegal immigrants as victims of a system that's not protecting them by providing economic security.

Your complaint seems to either be directed as those doing what they have to to make a living and provide for their families, or a government who isn't enforcing the law.

Regardless, you're applying the same victim mentality on your own people that you can't protect.

You sound very much like the Mexican's I've spoken with about the subject.

Think about it.

-spence

the best way to curb illegal immigration is to build a thriving middle class in the countries of origin. like mexico. not necessarily in our hands, and it will take time.

in the meantime, with the housing slump we are in right now, wouldn't be surprised if a lot of guys are going back home ... because of layoffs. there are only so many guys who can mow lawns and prune trees, etc.

don't forget that illegals have to buy stuff. they pay sales/consumption tax like the rest of us do. not sure that is embedded in a lot of cost-benefit assumptions.

Your complaint seems to either be directed as those doing what they have to to make a living and provide for their families, or a government who isn't enforcing the law.

-spence

My complaint is directed at those who choose to break laws to make a living and the government that chooses not to enforce those laws, yep you got that right. In the world I come from making a living and providing for your family is not an excuse to break the law. The fact that they come from a more socialist society does not nullify the laws of our country.

My complaint is directed at those who choose to break laws to make a living and the government that chooses not to enforce those laws, yep you got that right. In the world I come from making a living and providing for your family is not an excuse to break the law. The fact that they come from a more socialist society does not nullify the laws of our country.

So you have a Mexican government not providing for some of it's people, and US corporations who are breaking the law by employing (hence attracting) these people.

And your anger is directed toward those trying to make a living?

Sounds like it's misplaced.

Oh, wait...I forgot.

This is the largest economic threat to our country! :rotflmao:

-spence

And your anger is directed toward those trying to make a living?

Sounds like it's misplaced.

Oh, wait...I forgot.

-spence

Oh yeah, I forgot you people aren't into blaming criminals. Why dont you just accept total responsibility, it'll make you feel all warm and fuzzy. :love:

Oh yeah, I forgot you people aren't into blaming criminals. Why dont you just accept total responsibility, it'll make you feel all warm and fuzzy. :love:
Not at all...

I'm simply doing a root cause analysis. You cite illegal immigration as, what was it?

As much as some people will fight and argue against the notion, illegal immigration is in my opinion, the single greatest economic threat this country faces.

When illegal immigration is not the real problem. The issue has to do with the Mexican government's inability to provide for its people and our consumer driven economy looking for the best bang for the buck.

This has more to do with physics than politics, it's a matter of ENTROPY :happy:

-spence

An observation-
Stripersniper proposed that illegal imigration is the greatest threat to our economy.

Spence said it wasnt.

Now stripersniper is accusing spence of SUPPORTING illegal imigration.


I doubt spence supports it.

carry on

*sigh*

i don't know about you guys, but most of the illegal aliens i see around me work their gazoongas off to send money back to their families. most of these are mexicans, etc.

they take jobs nobody wants. they do unsafe and dirty work nobody does. compared to the rest of us they are willing to work for peanuts. they do it without benefits (well, except in cali). they crib in groups and eat instant noodles 24/7 to save money. their work ethic put some of us to shame.

i can't help but have a sincere admiration for these people living on hardscrabble, regardless of how they got here.

did i mention many are serving in our armed forces, fighting and dying for the rest of us? and they're not citizens.

your perspective might depend on where you live. people who live in Cali and the southern border states (Texas for example) might be up their eyeballs in illegal-related crime. here on the east coast, i don't see it that much. maybe i am out of touch.

the reality is that they are here and more than a few of us find that for the most part they are wanted/needed.

we really should have some kind of guest worker program, to legitimize their presence here (take a headcount and collect tax revenue!).

i'm not saying we have to offer citizenship or even certain benefits (is it fair for them to take benefits once they start paying taxes?), but there ought to be a way to track 'em - allow the law-abiding productive ones to come and go and keep the bad apples out.

i feel bad for immigrants in a post-9/11 world. it really sucks for them now. i have a lot of co-workers here who are here on a work-visa. if they get laid off by their employer, they have no choice but to hunt for another sponsor (not easy!) or be deported. i don't know if i could live with that kind of nerve-wracking uncertainty.


Well said Ben

Coming from the party that worships the parlayer of this truth: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman"......your opinion on truth is moot.

:beat:



When near to totally wrong point out something a Democrat did wrong :fishslap:

Now stripersniper is accusing spence of SUPPORTING illegal imigration.


I doubt spence supports it.

carry on

Nope, I dont think he does. We just disagree on the severity of the problem.