Where are we today as Americans? Are we better off? Are we respected in the world? Are we moral or immoral as a nation? The anniversary of this nation's founding brings cause to reflect and think of these things. I believe we as a nation must take a collective breath and step back from the world stage and look to heal ourselves before we go forth back into the world to be the leaders we once were.

This country needs to heal the family wounds before we can offer assistance to any other. Unfortunately there are people in the world who will suffer intolerable tragedy but in order to properly help them we must help ourselves first. Isolationist as this may seem, at this point in time, it is the only course America can take before we drop further into the abyss of our spiraling problems.

20% percent of Americans hold 50% of the countries wealth. The cost of living outpaces the average workers paycheck by a ever widening percentage. No country can survive if the population's income continues to lose ground with the cost of surviving. Dual income families are a must, Living paycheck to paycheck is a common thing and savings accounts continue to become less common. Debt ratios climb as corporate greed runs rampant and unwilling legislators continue to look the other way. Paying for gas, groceries with a credit card, unless you are among the fortunate few who can pay the monthly balance in full, is insane at 18 to 22%.

Our policy of forced democratizion on countries whose existence has been and will be for centuries governed by tribal and other less than democratic principles must cease. Conversion by force is not the answer.

Lastly our own government has become one of an imperial nature where civil liberties have been tossed out in the name of Homeland defense. A situation created by failed policy and inept leadership both at home and across the global front by the current and recent past administrations. We bring to bear on places we have no business interfering our will without a clear understanding of another's culture and history. There are just causes and unjust causes. Iraq was an unjust cause in my opinion for military intervention. Bin Laden and Al-Qaida was and is a true just cause for intervention as was Hiltler and Japan in the 40's. Our most valuable resources of young American lives, as in Vietnam, are being wasted when the true perpertrator's of the problems in the world continue to raise arms in hate in the name of radical religious extremism(s).

It's time for the people of this nation to take back the government, to seek the healing within our nation, to bring prosperity back to the general population and to elect leaders who will seek to re-establish our place in the world as partners and leaders, a place where the American flag is again respected as a symbol of the people and values of a nation who can be looked upon as an example of what being a world leader should be. It's time to close our doors and fix our own house before we can fix another.

That's one hell of a big foot stuck in that door.Getting it closed is gonna be a bitch.

Agreed...how the hell can we go about the world telling others to live a certain way when we seem to have lost our own way?

As far as respect for the US.....little to none these days.Mostly because of a moronic war that should have ended the day that soldier found Saddam Hussein in a hole.At that moment there should have been a single gunshot to his head immediately followed by our president saying "C'mon home boys!Great job!"

As far as Bin Laden goes we have the resources to quietly hunt his ass down behind the scenes so as not to piss off the rest of the world.But since we have pissed off the rest of the world ain't no one going to give him up.I know this:if the US had withdrawn from Iraq immediately following Hussein's capture the likelyhood of us finding Bin Laden by now would be very good and our relationship with the rest of the world would be a lot better.

It's time for the people of this nation to take back the government, to seek the healing within our nation, to bring prosperity back to the general population and to elect leaders who will seek to re-establish our place in the world as partners and leaders, a place where the American flag is again respected as a symbol of the people and values of a nation who can be looked upon as an example of what being a world leader should be. It's time to close our doors and fix our own house before we can fix another.

Steve, i agree wholeheartedly, but who and where are these men of character and integrity,

similar to our founding fathers, that will lead us to this end?

well then
in response to this thread...

who out of the candidates for president that are running

will be the best president to turn things around for the better

certainly not hillary :hs: guilianni nope
bill richardson... good internationally... a great thinker
mit romney... maybe a change but many say he's a phony...

fred thompson...i kinda like how he talks ...scary and truthful like IKE
or the old time presidents... with style and conviction and credibility
obama... your mama

Yet there are still people who come here with very little and within one generation their sons and daughters enter the professional class and they themselves become successful business people.

20% percent of Americans hold 50% of the countries wealth.

Most likely these people EARNED it. So you are going to hold it against them?

The cost of living outpaces the average workers paycheck by a ever widening percentage. No country can survive if the population's income continues to lose ground with the cost of surviving. Dual income families are a must, Living paycheck to paycheck is a common thing and savings accounts continue to become less common.

Blame Alan Greenspan. Blame the Chinese. Blame the Indians.

Debt ratios climb as corporate greed runs rampant and unwilling legislators continue to look the other way.

Non-sequiter. Gov't deficit spending is only part of the problem. We also have huge imbalances in the trade deficit and nobody is saving money. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? Nobody pointed a gun at Joe America's head and said "hey, lever up with a sub-prime negative amortization mortage, and hey, we got zero percent auto loans for you and hey, here's a credit card, go buy some cheap Chinese flat-screen TV on it and pay for it thirty years later."

It's the other way around - eventually corporate America is gonna get HURT because stupid Americans can't control themselves while spending themselves silly into an AVERAGE NEGATIVE SAVINGS RATE nationwide.

Paying for gas, groceries with a credit card, unless you are among the fortunate few who can pay the monthly balance in full, is insane at 18 to 22%.

Then don't do it. Cut back on other things and pay for stuff with cash. If your rate is too high, then you can always shop around. If you shop around (rates are still at historical lows for preferred credit), and your rate is still too high, then you probably have $hitty credit (irresponsible or have too much outstanding) and SHOULDN'T have access to any more borrowing capacity.

"Whatever happened to personal responsbility".

Yeah but Joe American down the street has a flat screen tv, aren't i entitled to have it too, right now? Geez, i only have a 27inch color i really need the 52inch, it's going to make me much happier. NOT.

I also need this new $500 phone, mine will only take pics and allow txt messsaging, i need more than that in my phone. NOT.



Wouldn't be bad if 90% of the stuff people bought was fueling our own American companies, who as bad as they're suppose to be, keep people employed, offer benefits and who's stock fuels retirement plans.

We are living in the ME generation, which in mho is driving itself crazy buying stuff, and working all kind of hours to support the habit.


All the freedoms you could ask for, without the responsibility. Can't last. :( We don't need anymore stuff, we need the wisdom to get THINGS under control.

technological advances are changing our society... in many ways...

like the merging of the tv and telephone and or the computer....
it seems like soon they are going to be all one gadget...
yet the simple act of communicating...
has become more strained an endeavor when it should've become
that much easier. it sure bugs me sometimes that we are all players..
it's an avoidance game of text messaging , voice mails, e- mails , faxes , snail mail and memo's. human interaction is becoming less and less.

People advert their eyes and pretend to be looking elsewhere at something holding their interest that isn't even there... afraid to lock eyes
and make contact...
yeah right... it's as transparent as celephane...
like i'm fooled by your little ploy...lady, as i stared at her venomously for almost running her BJ's shopping cart into my wife...tonight...uncaring.. beotch... as she tries to fake out no one. :af:

we might all ask ourselves where has all the courtesy gone....

as i make my way in Society sometimes i go way out of my way to be extra kind or courteous just to get another human beings reaction to this special treatment that at one time was concidered normal yet now it is the exception.... or percieved as a deliverance of insanity spam.:spin:

then there's the perception of reality that in essence everyone is basically sane... as you all hurry on by when in the true reality everyone is only acting rational and coherent
....an act they have mastered...
when in reality they are mostly borderline neurotic or have some deep seated emotional issues that are just a scratch below the public facade waiting to bubble up to the surface.

Bassturbeb, I love you. But, when American companies Like say, Levi's Jeans for example, give thier CEO's a 22 million dollar bonus for shutting down and moving them to China/Singapore/Mexico and VietNam, don't you find that disturbing.

BTW, I have several credit cards and no balance on any one of them. I pay cash for big ticket items like cars, which on the whole are a really poor investment wouldn't you agree? Especially expensive American ones?

You see things from the invetor/business side but I see things from the introspective side, what you say is true but my point is we need to fix the way most americans do business in thier daily lives so they stop the reckless behavior when it comes to personal finance. Most people, if not the majority of our population are fiscally inept and generally uneducated in the art of money. Typical example would be the fool who waits for his big refund check each year from Uncle Sam. Nothing like giving the Goverment a free loan that makes them interest and you nothing. But Ahh that check!

Teaching personal responsibility is what is needed. If not most will never naturally be able to acquire it. We need to fix a lot of things in this country. Believing that it will fix itself and doing nothing but casting the critical eye will only makes you more blind to the reality.

The government of this country and the administration there of has veered way off the course of it's original intent. More a kingdom than a free democracy each day.:tooth:

It wouldn't hurt this Country to take a long, honest look in the mirror anymore than it would hurt an individual to. And not in the typical narcissic way that's become derigor these days. Personal assessment and personal responsibility for the individual and the nation would be a great step in the right direction. That and stop electing crooks and cheats.

You nailed it Rav, and it always comes down to individual choices, responsibility, and character,
wehther it be how we treat others, or what is best for our country.


We can choose to hold the door open, or show some kindness to another, or just walk on by.


A politican can choose wether to become a true statesman, make the hard decesions for the good of the country,
or do whatever he needs to do to get re-elected and line his own pockets.


Our pool of people with integrity and character is dwindling,
and along with it the chances of finding the kind of people needed to make this country great again.

We should just take a public sector job and be done with it.
For life, the DPS jobs unless you are in a sales role, are leaving town.

...when American companies Like say, Levi's Jeans for example, give thier CEO's a 22 million dollar bonus for shutting down and moving them to China/Singapore/Mexico and VietNam, don't you find that disturbing.

That's capitalism. CEO's have no duty to society at large. CEO's are beholden to the company's shareholders and the duty of the CEO is to maximize profits.

BTW, I have several credit cards and no balance on any one of them. I pay cash for big ticket items like cars, which on the whole are a really poor investment wouldn't you agree? Especially expensive American ones?

Most cars are not "investments." They are rapidly depreciating assets and cash flow liabilities. At some point, it makes more sense to lease them than own them (maybe less the case nowadays with overall quality and reliability improving). To me, cars are nothing more than tools to get you and your stuff from point A to point B. But then, I am not a "car" guy.

...we need to fix the way most americans do business in thier daily lives so they stop the reckless behavior when it comes to personal finance. Most people, if not the majority of our population are fiscally inept and generally uneducated in the art of money.

We teach all this useless crap in high school and college. Financial literacy is something that really needs to be mainstreamed into our educational system.

The government of this country and the administration there of has veered way off the course of it's original intent. More a kingdom than a free democracy each day.:tooth:

Well, I don't think I disagree with you in substance on this point. Every new law that gets passed by the fed.gov means that there will be more criminals created at the drop of the hat.

I am not happy with the burgeoning size of the fed.gov, whose growth just feeds on its own existence. I don't like that we are fighting wars or funding social programs that will be paid for out of our children's pockets. I don't like one bit that our civil liberties are being steadily eroded. But to blame it ALL on President Bush (Patriot Act excepted) is neither accurate nor fair.

We get the government we deserve.

You nailed it Rav, and it always comes down to individual choices, responsibility, and character,
wehther it be how we treat others, or what is best for our country.

Yep, Maybe we should quit blaming other entities like "America" and "Politicians" and put the responsibility where it truly belongs which is on our own shoulders. The mere fact that we can't wait to blame someone or something for our shortcomings tells the true story. We've grown up in a time where we witnessed the rewards prior generations achieved through hard work, courageous fighting, personal responsibility and integrity.
We've now produced a couple of generations who feel entitled to the same rewards those prior generations won but don't possess (or choose not to use) those same qualities that can make it a reality. Instead they choose handouts and / or easy credit to reward themselves with their perceived entitlements and then whine that they were forced to go into debt.

Lots of great points here. In my opinion, we need to keep illegals out of the country, as they are a drain on our economic system, we need to put criminals in jail and keep them there, and we need to use our social service programs for what they were originally developed and intended for. Welfare is supposed to help people who are having a tough time get back on their feet. It's not a lifestyle meant to keep people from having to work and contribute to society by paying taxes. People should be forced to at least work part-time if they want to live off of everybody elses money. There are plenty of jobs available out there and most people who are on welfare could qualify for one. One of the great things about about this country is that you have an opportunity to better yourself. If you have to take a crappy job, you can work hard and move up to something better. Also, people have to be smart about their own finances. DON'T SPEND WHAT YOU DON'T HAVE AND DON'T BUY WHAT YOU CANNOT AFFORD. While I'm at it, parents should not let their children leave the house dressed as hoodlums (sorry, but that just drives me nuts). And I think Raven put it best... a little civility and manners would go a long way in making this country a better place to live. All that being said, I would not want to live anywhere else. The U.S.A is still the best country in the world. And there is some pretty good fishing, to boot.

It's time for the people of this nation to take back the government, to seek the healing within our nation, to bring prosperity back to the general population and to elect leaders who will seek to re-establish our place in the world as partners and leaders, a place where the American flag is again respected as a symbol of the people and values of a nation who can be looked upon as an example of what being a world leader should be. It's time to close our doors and fix our own house before we can fix another.

We need to stop voting for the same buffoons every time they come up for re-election, no question about it. But what really decent person runs for office nowadays. You could be lily-white, perfect, but to make the monthly Neilson rating, some news stations would try to make being nice a crime.

The politicians as well as many of us have become greedy, self-absorbed, get out of my way persons. Working for and toward a positive outcome/solution to any worthwhile endeavour has taken a backseat to the scratch card mentality that prevails in todays society.

It is what it is and it "is" our fault.

entitled


That is the key word right there. me and my wife have been discussing this lately. Everyone seems to think they are "Entitled" to everything. The rules were made for other people.....not them.

What do you want from life
Someone to love
and somebody that you can trust
What do you want from life
To try and be happy
while you do the nasty things you must

Well, you can't have that, but if you're an American citizen you are entitled to:
a heated kidney shaped pool,
a microwave oven--don't watch the food cook,
a Dyna-Gym--I'll personally demonstrate it in the privacy of your own home,
a king-size Titanic unsinkable Molly Brown waterbed with polybendum,
a foolproof plan and an airtight alibi,
real simulated Indian jewelry,
a Gucci shoetree,
a year's supply of antibiotics,
a personally autographed picture of Randy Mantooth
and Bob Dylan's new unlisted phone number,
a beautifully restored 3rd Reich swizzle stick,
Rosemary's baby,
a dream date in kneepads with Paul Williams,
a new Matador, a new mastodon,
a Maverick, a Mustang, a Montego,
a Merc Montclair, a Mark IV, a meteor,
a Mercedes, an MG, or a Malibu,
a Mort Moriarty, a Maserati, a Mac truck,
a Mazda, a new Monza, or a moped,
a Winnebago--Hell, a herd of Winnebago's we're giving 'em away,
or how about a McCulloch chainsaw,
a Las Vegas wedding,
a Mexican divorce,
a solid gold Kama Sutra coffee pot,
or a baby's arm holding an apple?


but you are entitled to nothing else .

Entitlement. Sure we witnessed our Parents working hard and steadily getting somewhere. Having a nice house and car on one income and when the time came they could count on their Social Security check and a pension check as well. Do we, their children have that deal? No. Two incomes, working hard to maintain the status quo, Social Security is about to go the way of the Do-Do, and what the hell is a pension? I don't feel entitled, I feel robbed of the American dream. The only jobs staying in this Country are service jobs, and if you're in IT Services, your job may still fly away to India. The only reason my job is still here is the fact that sending your car overseas to be repaired is too expensive, but I'm sure someone is working on it.
The kids aren't displaying Entitlement, they're displaying the white flag, they surrender because they know how hopeless it will be for them when they are 50, so eff it ...

Entitlement. Sure we witnessed our Parents working hard and steadily getting somewhere. Having a nice house and car on one income and when the time came they could count on their Social Security check and a pension check as well. Do we, their children have that deal? No. Two incomes, working hard to maintain the status quo, Social Security is about to go the way of the Do-Do, and what the hell is a pension? I don't feel entitled, I feel robbed of the American dream. The only jobs staying in this Country are service jobs, and if you're in IT Services, your job may still fly away to India. The only reason my job is still here is the fact that sending your car overseas to be repaired is too expensive, but I'm sure someone is working on it.
The kids aren't displaying Entitlement, they're displaying the white flag, they surrender because they know how hopeless it will be for them when they are 50, so eff it ...


I see people everywhere, everyday realizing the "American Dream". Those are the people who understand that they are not entitled to it and instead have plotted a course in their lives that allows them to earn it.
Waving a white flag isn't part of their plan.

Yes there are those....as well as the folks who are working 3 jobs and getting nowhere. It's all about the end of the month. I've worked for companies that won't write a work order the last week of the month, they're too busy fudging the figures.

when my parents married they were able to build a decent home that cost one and a half times my fathers yearly salary. (remember only one income). Lets say you took that same percentage to modern day. You would have to make $100K a year to get $150,000 house.


.....just some food for thought....go ahead and think about that one for a few

Politics is just another vehicle for fame and money....and power...

when my parents married they were able to build a decent home that cost one and a half times my fathers yearly salary. (remember only one income). Lets say you took that same percentage to modern day. You would have to make $100K a year to get $150,000 house.


.....just some food for thought....go ahead and think about that one for a few

that was back in the day when mortgages were interest only and you had to pay a bullet payment at the end.

the introduction of the amortized loan, which forces people to pay down principal over time, and heretofore ridiculously low rates (as well as creative financing schemes), lenders now use three times cash flow (annual salary, as adjusted) as a rule of thumb.

I have no idea what kind of loan they had but my point was more that people are spending WAY more than they should for their homes. Granted I have my share of money issues..I will always have bills.But I also didnt buy a house for what we were approved for. We bought what we knew we could afford. Unfortunately that was HALF of the approved amount. I know there are a lot of people that would say "if the bank says I can afford it I must be able to".......a direct downfall of what Bassturbed described as "creative financing scheme".

Wow! I think I'll go fishing.

:claps: :claps: :btu: Well said!

That's one hell of a big foot stuck in that door.Getting it closed is gonna be a bitch.

Agreed...how the hell can we go about the world telling others to live a certain way when we seem to have lost our own way?

As far as respect for the US.....little to none these days.Mostly because of a moronic war that should have ended the day that soldier found Saddam Hussein in a hole.At that moment there should have been a single gunshot to his head immediately followed by our president saying "C'mon home boys!Great job!"

As far as Bin Laden goes we have the resources to quietly hunt his ass down behind the scenes so as not to piss off the rest of the world.But since we have pissed off the rest of the world ain't no one going to give him up.I know this:if the US had withdrawn from Iraq immediately following Hussein's capture the likelyhood of us finding Bin Laden by now would be very good and our relationship with the rest of the world would be a lot better.


BassWipe in 2008!
You could go Republican, Visit Walker's Point, Fish on OUR Boats and have the SS bait your line.
Putin did OK.

well then
in response to this thread...

who out of the candidates for president that are running

will be the best president to turn things around for the better

certainly not hillary :hs: guilianni nope
bill richardson... good internationally... a great thinker
mit romney... maybe a change but many say he's a phony...

fred thompson...i kinda like how he talks ...scary and truthful like IKE
or the old time presidents... with style and conviction and credibility
obama... your mama

If I had to Vote tomorrow...Bill Richardson

BassWipe in 2008!
You could go Republican, Visit Walker's Point, Fish on OUR Boats and have the SS bait your line.
Putin did OK.

These are statements made in reality.Most politicians are aware of reality they just refuse to accept as it could jeopardize their "careers"(re-election).

IMO there have only been two presidents in the past 100yrs who accepted reality and then confronted it:FDR and Reagan.Our current and past one simply appear to not even have been aware of reality.