View Full Version : Is Something Wrong?


BigFish
07-18-2007, 05:38 PM
I see it everywhere, people talking about how truely awful the fishing has been and it seems to get worse every year! I was talking with BasicPatrick earlier today and we were discussing how, over the last few seasons, the bait just seems to be staying offshore.....along with the bass! Not just at this time, when the so called "summer doldrums" are in full swing, but all season long! More and more surf fishermen are turning in their waders for boats because the fishing from the surf has been dismal and boats are the only way to get to the fish because, for some reason, they are not coming into the shore as in years past!! The backside of the Cape has been absolutely horrible the past 3 seasons and maybe we can attribute a good deal of that to the proliferation of the giant black rats...the seals! What about bait???? Is anyone seeing any? The fall run of the last 2 seasons has been the worst.....the last worst than the one before it! Is it a pattern? Is something wrong with the eco-system? Any thoughts or comments??? I for one believe something is wrong and I don't know what?!

nightfighter
07-18-2007, 05:48 PM
Boat fishing up this way hasn't been exactly stellar..... got skunked last night, eels and herring, 5 hours, not a hit. Talked with four other boats, total of two small fish between the lot of us. And this has been fishing lots of historically fishy spots. Might have to travel out even further. Looking at charts again tonight. Hell a 24# fish won the Maddies Tourney a few weeks ago, and I know he went pretty far east of Gloucester..... I suck.

pops
07-18-2007, 05:57 PM
seals

Slipknot
07-18-2007, 06:06 PM
Lots of factors in play here Larry
here's a list from my uninformed uneducated opinion

1 global warming
2 daylight is longest this time of year and there is less dark night hours (not that that explains the crappy fall runs but....)
3 the pattern fish have been leaning to is follow the bait offshore where the seals ain't, been moving that way for sometime now
4 sandeels have changed there positions away from the sandy shores of the outer beaches more and more each year, don't know why but it affects their predator the bass since the bait just is not in close so we don't catch as many
5 Jersey has most of the large down there and they kill lots of fish and lots of large just like we have up here, IMO the whole population of stripers can't maintain at the take rate that is happening. We need to slow it down before it's too late, go back to 1 fish per person coastwide, then if we need to go up to 34" to start with.
6 the bluefish are scaring all the bass away :tooth:
7 boats are an easy vehicle to get you to where the bass are, so of course they will catch more fish.

shore fishing has been dropping off for years now, maybe it's just a cycle, the canal sucks too, 4 years ago july was good, atleast the beginning of july, so I don't know :huh:

ridler72
07-18-2007, 06:23 PM
I can only talk about what I know and that is Boston Harbor. Every year, at least for me it's the same. A good push of big fish comes by Boston Harbor around June and does the drive by. This year there was biggies. Poagies have been in moderate, most that I have seen since the 80's and shore fishing was horrible back then but the boaters rejoiced. July for me has always been slow. The Poagies have kept it interesting but not a sure bet for big fish. August-September is prime time up here for big fish. I hope that trend continues. I can't speak for everyone on Boston Harbor but it's been the same thing every year, at least for me.

Tagger
07-18-2007, 06:28 PM
co-worker is a strickly off shore fisher.This past Memorial day he said they were 25 miles out when they noticed a disturbance on top of the water . On further investigation they saw they were small polluck being pushed up ,,by what they didn't know . They live lined one and hooked up a forty pound bass they released . He said they are out there..There's no bait close to shore. why would they be there ?.. They just follow thier nose . We really have to restore the bait situation ..Herring..Pogeys ,,Macks ,,Smelt "Restore it they will come " Smelt hasn't fully recovered from the industrial revolution ..lot of smelt runs never came back . You can't catch any Macks off the pier early spring last 8 yrs...When the levels are up ,,you don't need a boat ... catch 50 off the pier .

Slingah
07-18-2007, 06:29 PM
my guess would be the bait...or lack of it....

rizzo
07-18-2007, 07:27 PM
Large bodies of fish are staying in NJ and NY. Taking longer to get up to RI. When a population drops the fish don't spread out as much. Modern electronics and poachers are doing a number. North Carolina has no sense of conservation, large scale commercial outfits have bigtime kills, pounding away at fish all winter. You pound the same schools year after year you will deplete them. Theres only so much out there, it is not an endless resourse.

CANAL RAT
07-18-2007, 07:55 PM
the spring fishing was awsome and it seemed like everybody go in on the action but now the water is getting warmer ,the fish are going into there slow pattern of sulking in deep water and only feeding and coming inshore at night. during july you have to fish at night with bait inorder to catch the big bass.

BigFish
07-18-2007, 08:00 PM
Well aware of the doldrums as I mentioned in my initial thread......there are other factors at play! The night fishing has been horrible for a couple years now!

In The Surf
07-18-2007, 08:02 PM
Simply put it's the BAIT. They're finding it and staying on it.
With Jersey's big pogie rebound the shore and boat guys have been doing well the last 2-3 years. The fish that would have come up this way are staying there on the pogies. I heard the same thing last year about LI sound, the bait was there so were the big bass. It's the same thing here in the bay the last 2-3 years, large schools of large pogies and the bass thick on them. We all thought they would drop out when the water warmed but it didn't play out like that, they just stayed on the bait till it was time to head south. The shore fishing on the open surf has been getting a little tougher on us up here because of it. Find the bait, find the fish.
And oh yeah fish away from the seals.:grins:

Tagger
07-18-2007, 08:06 PM
If the bait is concentrated ,,the fish are concentrated .. Good for the fisher, not the fish .

Finaddict
07-18-2007, 08:18 PM
Larry - Bait is a huge factor, not just that they are offshore but their main breeding grounds in the estuaries are being compromised more and more by coastal development and run-off both along our coasts and down in the major estuary systems up and down the coasts ...

... in fact, I remember reading an article in the AFTMA newsletter (American Fishing Tackle Manufacturers Association - the predecessor to today's American Sportfishing Association) in which Norville Processor - spelling? - reported on a study conducted in Chesapeake Bay where the young of the year were netted in the estuaries feeding the bay ... only one river system had young, but they were so plentiful in that one location that the study reported that the bay as a whole had a healthy population ... Mr. Prosser was trying to refute that claiming it was bogus ...

... the run-off down there includes a lot of agricultural run-off that has pesticides, etc., but also every day run-off from society getting closer to the water and getting more pollutants including raw sewage into the water than ever before ... and I feel it is starting to have an impact ...

... and on top of the coastal estuary degredation, commercial fishing for bait fish from eel elvers to smelt to pogies, herring ... the list goes on, but what's happening is that bait is depleted and not coming back. We can't point all of the fingers at the commercial group, as we all play our part in it ...

... and of course the same estuaries that the bait breeds in are the estuaries that stripers breed in and those are not as favorable to striper reproduction ...

... then throw in the recreational limit ... there was mention above of the stripers being kept in New Jersey ... it's the same up here, no different, there's just more down there now and more visible ... during the blitz of 25 years, one shop had something like 66 fish weighed in during a four-hour span and all fish were above the 30-pound mark. But who are we to tell someone who fishes hard that they can't take their legal limit? It would be nice if everyone practiced catch-and-release to a degree, but if they are within their limit ... they are doing nothing wrong ... no add in New York and CT and RI, Mass., NH and ME, Del, MD, VA, NC ... that's a lot of recreational harvesting ... on top of a large commercial harvest as well.

There's no one reason and no one solution, but there are a lot of factors contributing to the demise of our fishing ... and if commercials are staying within their legal limits, let them have their day ... let's just hope that everyone is having equal success ... which none of us are whether we are commercials or recreational anglers.

Boy that was a mouthful.

Raider Ronnie
07-18-2007, 08:45 PM
For me,
Bass fishing has been so so, but i have not put much effort in the bass in a while.
But,
The Tuna fishing has been Red Hot for me for atleast 7 weeks !
And to be honest, the bass fishing has not been too appealing to me because of the tuna!

irlnd32
07-18-2007, 09:20 PM
I agree about the Menhaden. They are around even in the bays in NY NJ. Why leave, plus the water has cooled off with the S winds.

emgred
07-18-2007, 09:25 PM
I read this with great interest. As a Long Island surf caster a can attest to the change in the bait pattern. Over the last few years we have seen way more adult bunker that are holding in our area for the whole season. I have seen more and bigger Shad earlier this year then ever. As we all know, stripers are lazy. Large are lazier. Why should they leave where the food is. I don't know enough about the RI bunker/commercial fishing issues, but I do know that if they can't get to the bays and breed then you guys won't have the peanuts to hold the bass. Or even attract them in the first place.

Just my 2 cents

Karl F
07-18-2007, 10:03 PM
Yes.. there is something wrong, and we have touched base on this before, and here in this thread.

A local tackle shop owner in town and I talked of this the other day.
He told me there is all the bass you want, not that far off shore, just out of the seals cruising range.. plentiful squid, sand eels, and even some healthy bunker, and macks.. I have said this in years past.. Why would the bass leave an all you can eat buffet, to risk running past the sea rats, for slim pickings near shore?

Seals.. push the bait and fish off shore.. because the seals cruise along the beachfront, so they can haul out and rest.. they have wiped out the inshore bait, and flounder and dabs and the like.. they have adapted and become oppurtunistic.. they recognize the surfcasters shape, a human carrying a long stick, and follow him, for a free meal.. they even target our plugs now....

Lack of access.. I know..a dead horse.. but when we can only access a limited portion of the outer beach by vehicle.. it hinders our attempts.. YES,, we can walk... but can't cover the ground as quickly or with the ease of a buggy.. and cannot access the miles and miles that were once free range.. here on the cape.. but.. that time is gone

MUNG.. another thing that is tough to dodge without the access to cover a large area, to find open water..

Inshore Bait migration to off shore.. See Seals

Some say that a fish caught from a boat says something about the individuals surfcasting skills.. well.. it ain't the 70's anymore..

Fish can still be found inshore, but you have to think different places..
estuarys, harbors, rivers, etc... follow the winds and tides.. and the bait.

Slip.. you could be right.. everything goes in cycles.. I hope I am alive for the next cycle of what was here in 77-81 :)

Doldrums... I don't know... the daylight issue makes sense.. but... is it also a factor that a lot of folks just "quit fishing" for a few weeks in the summer?... take a break as it were?.. .. admitedly, I have not put in the time this year.. but.. my last two attempts.. not another soul (human, that is), could be found in the areas I fished....

Things to ponder....

BigFish
07-18-2007, 10:07 PM
We all know those issues with the Cape Karl.....I am speaking of the broader issues.....the total lack of bait primarily! This is a problem all over Mass. The biggest question is why all of a sudden, the last 2-3 years, is the bait remaining offshore????

Karl F
07-18-2007, 10:08 PM
We all know those issues with the Cape Karl.....I am speaking of the broader issues.....the total lack of bait primarily! This is a problem all over Mass. The biggest question is why all of a sudden, the last 2-3 years, is the bait remaining offshore????

See Seals..... :)

BigFish
07-18-2007, 10:10 PM
Seals are not yet that much of a presence here on the south shore....not like down the Cape. They are coming though!:hs:

redcrbbr
07-18-2007, 10:28 PM
Lots of factors in play here Larry
here's a list from my uninformed uneducated opinion

1 global warming
2 daylight is longest this time of year and there is less dark night hours (not that that explains the crappy fall runs but....)
3 the pattern fish have been leaning to is follow the bait offshore where the seals ain't, been moving that way for sometime now
4 sandeels have changed there positions away from the sandy shores of the outer beaches more and more each year, don't know why but it affects their predator the bass since the bait just is not in close so we don't catch as many
5 Jersey has most of the large down there and they kill lots of fish and lots of large just like we have up here, IMO the whole population of stripers can't maintain at the take rate that is happening. We need to slow it down before it's too late, go back to 1 fish per person coastwide, then if we need to go up to 34" to start with.
6 the bluefish are scaring all the bass away :tooth:
7 boats are an easy vehicle to get you to where the bass are, so of course they will catch more fish.

shore fishing has been dropping off for years now, maybe it's just a cycle, the canal sucks too, 4 years ago july was good, atleast the beginning of july, so I don't know :huh:


LETS NOT FORGET ABOUT THE ENDANGERED CORMMORANTS

keeperreaper
07-18-2007, 10:55 PM
This year is the same as every year. Bass follow the bait. PERIOD!! Where the bait goes or stays is anyone's guess but I have caught a few large bass this year and a ridiculous amount of tuna. Find the bait find the fish!

NIB
07-19-2007, 02:24 AM
The amount of fish I have seen the last few weeks it is amazing to me there might be fish anywhere's else..

I have noticed in the past few yrs that these southern bass seem to be morphing into a different strain.Their heads are more bullet shaped,more tuna like.A Off shore angler coming in from sharking came up on a huge pod of bunker 15 miles off.Is it possible with the increase of the bunker population these bass are becoming more of a off shore fisherey than many think.We get a shot at em when the planets line up other than that it's a desert.The bunker vacuum effect.
Another thing that concerns me is I don't see many 12-17 lb fish.This spring was poor.U really had to work for em.Plenty of ur smaller fish it's almost like a yr class is missing.
Karl if there are off shore bass like u mentioned I would think they would have had a shot at em thru the ditch...Was that short run in late May it??
Even though we have some amazing fishing days this yr. It was not as good as last yr.Tough to beat last yr.But this is the first year in these runs it was not better than the one prior.Many prognasticators where claiming spring run a bust as they where late this yr.Everthing was late this yr. I still had a monster day 5-23..The numbers are starting to wind down now.I still think we have a few good shots at em down here yet.If u want a shot at em make friends with someone in Conn. cause they are comin.
Krispy u out there....

Vogt
07-19-2007, 06:33 AM
Last fall in Connecticut, the bunker was absolutely everywhere. The result was an explosive fall run for large fish. There were sooo many slammer blues around my spots and some really really nice bass. We would have action all day and all night just by moving from spot to spot.

NIB
07-19-2007, 06:52 AM
Last fall in Connecticut, the bunker was absolutely everywhere. The result was an explosive fall run for large fish. There were sooo many slammer blues around my spots and some really really nice bass. We would have action all day and all night just by moving from spot to spot.

Hey Buddy....

luds
07-19-2007, 07:36 AM
Fishing has been pretty good North of the Cape as far as I can tell. It was just a little strange for me this year because July has been great after a dismal June. I also thought the fishing in May was pretty good.

Back Beach
07-19-2007, 07:46 AM
Surf fishing is, was, and will always be cyclical with regard to its productivity. I believe there are plenty of fish in the ocean right now. The boat catches prove it.There are lots of small fish. From shore its always a crap shoot as to where the schools of large fish will stage on a given year. Many great seasons on the cape are being succeeded by what seems to be a prolonged dry spell. When the cape was hot, a lot of the spots that are productive now were dry. If you put in enough years at this game, you will see ups and downs. A lot of you guys here started fishing in recent years and really don't know what slow is. The fishing now is so far from "bad" it's ridiculous. Most guys can't appreciate it, especially if you started fishng after 1990 when the stocks began to boom. The fish may not be in your favorite spot every time out hitting your favorite lure with abandon, but that isn't an indicator of the fishing quality. Move.

Pete_G
07-19-2007, 07:58 AM
Any other long term fisherman who have seen far more ups and downs then me want to add some thoughts?

This is a good topic and it could use some additional insight from those who have gone through lean times from shore in the past.

Are there any other factors that are currently in place, especially relating to baitfish that parallel slower stretches in years prior? I tend to agree there's a lot of fish out there, but clearly surf fisherman in many areas aren't or can't cast to them.

Flaptail
07-19-2007, 08:14 AM
Easy.

1.Bounty on seals
2.Immediate end to menhaden fishery by both commercial and bait for sport shops suppliers
3. End commercial fishing for bass except for real, year round commercial fishermen. (ie: no plumbers allowed)
4. 36 inches for everyone at one per day
5. Keep the river herring protected for ten years not three
6. Ban mid water trawling for herring
7. enforce stricter rules for groundwater discharge in coastal embayments, marshes and adjoining wetlands.
8. Open the backbeaches on CC from Eastham to Long Point to orv access.
9.Allow orv night fishing access only to South Beach in Chatham.
10. Buy a boat and learn how to access closed or unaccesible by land areas by the same to fish from shore.
11. Realize that striper fishing has more secrets than 7 volumes of Harry Potter adventures and that there are hundreds of ways to catch bass when they are "not" there. Experimentation is the key.
12. Positive attitude in the face of sure failure.

Some of the above will never come to pass, like #'s 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 and 9. But hey you can dream can't you?:uhuh:

JohnR
07-19-2007, 08:21 AM
I think the overall amount of bass is probably in fair to OK shape and not the reasons we are doing "poorly".

Let's look at what we know:


Bass fishing has been fantastic where there are bunker; 'Gansett Bay, large areas of Jersey, LI, parts of LI Sound/CT, and Boston Harbor had a nice run.
Some people are having great years, some people are having miserable years but this is usually the case. The fish move around a lot.
Because we stay (or are supposed to) in the close waters near shore, lots of offshore migrations of bass are go way underreported. In the fall, think about the Great South Channel Bass Slaughter :( that gets more reported every year.
Weak inshore bait populations - with the exception of the bunker - not bringin fish back as often.

Here is some guessing:

I've heard some interesting opinions from people that have seen some good tagging survey data. What happens if your NJ fish and your Cape Cod summer fish are from the Chesapeake and since they are spending so much quality time on bunker in NJ that a sizeable percentage never gets to the Cape? If you look over the past few years at the progressively improved NJ fishing, does it coincide with the falling Cape Cod fishing????
Are the RI inshore fish Hudson fish and less influenced by the NJ bunker?


This is very cyclical and varies from year to year, the past few years the Cape has had it pretty hard but the Jersey guys have been doing very well. Is there a connection? What about the other failing forage stocks in New England? Like the herring??

fishpoopoo
07-19-2007, 08:29 AM
too much gook poop in the water

Nebe
07-19-2007, 08:36 AM
I see it everywhere, people talking about how truely awful the fishing has been and it seems to get worse every year! I was talking with BasicPatrick earlier today and we were discussing how, over the last few seasons, the bait just seems to be staying offshore.....along with the bass! Not just at this time, when the so called "summer doldrums" are in full swing, but all season long! More and more surf fishermen are turning in their waders for boats because the fishing from the surf has been dismal and boats are the only way to get to the fish because, for some reason, they are not coming into the shore as in years past!! The backside of the Cape has been absolutely horrible the past 3 seasons and maybe we can attribute a good deal of that to the proliferation of the giant black rats...the seals! What about bait???? Is anyone seeing any? The fall run of the last 2 seasons has been the worst.....the last worst than the one before it! Is it a pattern? Is something wrong with the eco-system? Any thoughts or comments??? I for one believe something is wrong and I don't know what?!

does the lower catch rate coincide with when you started fishing your own plugs? :rotf3:

Im just kidding... in my case I am sure that where i fish the menhaden surge in the bay is killing my spots-

BigFish
07-19-2007, 09:00 AM
JohnR.....I was thinking the same thing about the fishing south and the coincidental drop of the fishing here...along with the bunker scenarios!:kewl:

NEBE......caught more fish last year than ever before.....just no size! The plugs work fantastic.....I am amazed that they really work about as good as any plugs I have ever fished if not better! They cast better, swim better, and they produce.....when there is fish about! I would highly recommend to anyone that if they do not yet have a BigFish Bait Co. custom made fishing lure in their bag, run right out and get one!:kewl:

:topic: Sorry....:bl2:...did I go off topic?!:bgi:



;)

Back Beach
07-19-2007, 09:06 AM
Any other long term fisherman who have seen far more ups and downs then me want to add some thoughts?



Surf fishing is like a pedulum. When it swings in your favor you rationalize why. When it swings out of your favor its the same way. I've been at it since 1982 and have seen real bad,good, great, and ridiculous. In that time frame I can readily admit that the slow nights in the surf outnumber the good 5 to 1, perhaps more. Anyone who has a lot of years at it and claims differently is full of crap IMO. In the last five years I would say the fishing(surf) has been good to great when compared to the long term average.

ThrowingTimber
07-19-2007, 09:12 AM
I'm sick of catching all these 20lb to 25lb fish from shore :wall: :wall:

piemma
07-19-2007, 10:07 AM
We all know those issues with the Cape Karl.....I am speaking of the broader issues.....the total lack of bait primarily! This is a problem all over Mass. The biggest question is why all of a sudden, the last 2-3 years, is the bait remaining offshore????

I don't think it's staying offshore, it's staying in Narragnsett Bay. I was out yesterday morning, found a school of pogies and there were 20# bass and 15# Blues all around the school. I caught fish till my arms were tired. And I was in 74 degree water, way up the river almost in Providence.
I know that the mung, seals, commerial guys in NC all are a contributiing factor to the poor Mass fishing. The fact of the matter is that the fish stay where the food is and right now RI has the bait.

ProfessorM
07-19-2007, 10:11 AM
Basicly sounds like fishing to me.

BigFish
07-19-2007, 10:24 AM
Yeah....Rhode Island does not seem to be experiencing the same drop off because you have alot of bait obviously! Why, however, is Mass. suffering so badly? That is the question....or is it just the down section of the cycle????

Back Beach
07-19-2007, 10:32 AM
Yeah....Rhode Island does not seem to be experiencing the same drop off because you have alot of bait obviously! Why, however, is Mass. suffering so badly? That is the question....or is it just the down section of the cycle????

BF,

Mass has been this way before. When the pendulum swings back for the cape guys, it will be good again. Can't say what factors are going to be involved or when it will happen, but the fish will come back, probably when people least expect it....:eyes:

piemma
07-19-2007, 10:35 AM
Any other long term fisherman who have seen far more ups and downs then me want to add some thoughts?

This is a good topic and it could use some additional insight from those who have gone through lean times from shore in the past.

Are there any other factors that are currently in place, especially relating to baitfish that parallel slower stretches in years prior? I tend to agree there's a lot of fish out there, but clearly surf fisherman in many areas aren't or can't cast to them.

Yeah Pete. Mike is right. Even at it's worse it doesn't compare to how bad it was in the mid to late 80s. I remember in 85 when I caught 3 schoolies at Deep Hole one morning and I told the guy who ran the old bait shop on Monahans in Narragansett. He told me I was lying. he hadn't seen any Bass for 3 weeks and this was in June.
When the moratorium was on and we went from 34" to 36". We would fish RI 5 out of 7 nights a week and get maybe 1 fish that was a "keeper". There were no peanut bunker and sand eels and silver sides were the bait to be found. We'd pray for the Mullet run around Sept 15th around Weakapaug because you had a shot at a decent fish...maybe one in a week worth of nights. And I'm talking fishing from 10 or 11 till dawn.
So around 87 or 88 we started to run back up to the Cape. We would run the Back all night and maybe find fish at the Mission Bell or laurias for an hour. If we found fish we'd drive home in the morning. Sleep maybe 3 hours, do stuff with the kids and head back up at 6 or 7. I put in tons of 600 mile weekends when the fish were on the upswing in the early 90s.

During this period of time RI surf sucked big time. Everyone would drive from Narrow River to the Sheep's pen to Poind Jude, Deep Hole, Green Hill, Charlestown, Quonnie, Weakapaug, and watch Hill in one night looking, looking and maybe you got a couple of schoolies.

I am firmly convinced that the huge amount of Bunker up in Narr Bay is having an effect on the fishing everywhere. I have never seen so many big fish concentrated in the Bay. I saw fish from the mid teens to the low 20s all morning yesterday in 74 degree water. You NEVER could find fish in water that warm before but there is so much adult Menhaden in the bay the bass are staying on them. The reason? They are easy pickings. I worked a school that was about 2 or 3 acres yesterday. There were probably several thousand bunker in that school all on top with bass and blues under them. High protein diet for the fish without expending a lot of energy.

Just my humble opinion.

Paul

JFigliuolo
07-19-2007, 10:57 AM
Yeah....Rhode Island does not seem to be experiencing the same drop off because you have alot of bait obviously! Why, however, is Mass. suffering so badly? That is the question....or is it just the down section of the cycle????

RI has quite a problem from shore...

ThrowingTimber
07-19-2007, 11:02 AM
I disagree with ri having a problem from shore. Just gotta be where the bait is, now if I could just crack the 30lb mark we'll be fine, sooooo many fish 15lbs to 25-26 lbs from shore its dumb this year.. Its easier to pick through the twinkies in a boat...

Clogston29
07-19-2007, 11:15 AM
Bait concentrates fish. I think that that is really the issue here. Those that have access (boat, skill, info, etc) to the bait are having a great year. Those that don't are just working for stray fish here and there that have broken off from the herd, so to speak. Lots of bunker in jersey and the bay = lots of fish in jersey and the bay = less fish other places. Lots of sandeels off shore on the cape = lots of fish off shore on the cape = less fish on shore on the cape (seals definately play a factor here - they're probably why the sandeels stay off shore now, or at least a factor).

I also think the fact that we've screwed up the ocean so much is a major factor here. Everything has been so overfished and thrown out of wack. The diversity of baitfish is way down. Its gotten to the point that when one species is protected (pogies), they flurish relative to other species (mackeral, scup, squid, whatever) and concentrate the bass on them. The number of seals on the cape is, partly, a result on overfishing of herring and cod in the gulf of maine where the seals should be - once again we've screwed up and there are consequences.

Up on the N. Shore of MA, with the exception of June's pogies in salem harbor and september's peanuts all over the place, I never really feel like there are a lot of inshore baitfish. As a result the fish are typically concentrated around the rocks eating crabs, lobster, pollack, sea robins, etc - more solitary prey. This makes them more attainable to surfcasters. If we had tons of herring within a mile or so of shore, those fish probably wouldn't bother coming in shallow and "scrounging" the rocks. I feel like that is why june usually isn't that great (at least at most of the spots I fish), july august and october are the best shots for larger fish, and september is big numbers but low quality usually.

Flaptail
07-19-2007, 11:46 AM
Surf fishing is like a pedulum. When it swings in your favor you rationalize why. When it swings out of your favor its the same way. I've been at it since 1982 and have seen real bad,good, great, and ridiculous. In that time frame I can readily admit that the slow nights in the surf outnumber the good 5 to 1, perhaps more. Anyone who has a lot of years at it and claims differently is full of crap IMO. In the last five years I would say the fishing(surf) has been good to great when compared to the long term average.

How about July 2004? 4 and a half weeks,three nights a week minimum on the backside. Three two pound bluefish and one 47 inch bass caught in the glare of headlights on a needlefish. I kept thinking why do I do this to myself?

EarnedStripes44
07-19-2007, 04:00 PM
I can only talk about what I know and that is Boston Harbor. Every year, at least for me it's the same. A good push of big fish comes by Boston Harbor around June and does the drive by. This year there was biggies. Poagies have been in moderate, most that I have seen since the 80's and shore fishing was horrible back then but the boaters rejoiced. July for me has always been slow. The Poagies have kept it interesting but not a sure bet for big fish. August-September is prime time up here for big fish. I hope that trend continues. I can't speak for everyone on Boston Harbor but it's been the same thing every year, at least for me.

I fish the Boston Harbor from the shore. June was terrible, but I haven't been out much in July, only a handful of times. However, I did real good those outings. In one case several fish 28' thru 36' landed on fishfinders rigged w/ squid and halved green crabs during a false dawn in less than a hour (I know you that's Junior Varsity for you boat guys) at Castle Island (I dont care about spot burning, my presentation is IMPECCABLE and far above REPROACH, I'm like the Batman of the Castle Island Swims. While you shore castle island guys get sunburned, sitting on your buckets, lamenting on how terrible "luck" you have, fishing the hottest hours of the day lobbing chunks to skates, I'm in the Batcave). Remarkable improvement in water quality year after year, and Although June has traditionally been the month where fishing slowly picks up momentum, my fellow collective of angler friends have informed me that the shore fishing jumpstarted after that first early July heatwave, even in the inner harbor. It also helps that there aren't too many seals along the urban waterfront. Lots of schoolies poached though,....

Skunkmaster
07-19-2007, 05:32 PM
Rhode Islanders are blind to let the pogie boats come in and net the bait from our waters.Thats why fishing is slow,that's the answer to all the problems.The schools get netted and taken,when the bait go's away the fish that eat the bait find elsewhere to eat.Sad day when the Ocean state doesn't want to improve ocean fishing.Makes me sick day after day.I feel for the guys on the cape with the nasty seals but you can bet I'd be hunting them in the cloak of night .1 less seal is a better chance for keeping a fish or being able to cast a once good beach.Good video with seal -----> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYbCMdR38us&mode=related&search=

NIB
07-19-2007, 08:26 PM
Been saying for yrs. that there is a direct corallation to the abundance of bait in Nj an the bad fishing in the cape...
There also seems to be poor amounts of other migratory baitfish like herring an Makeral.Last yrs mac run along with this springs was pretty dismal.These are the long haul migratory fish that lead the bass on their way north every spring...

Mike P
07-19-2007, 08:45 PM
Been saying for yrs. that there is a direct corallation to the abundance of bait in Nj an the bad fishing in the cape...
There also seems to be poor amounts of other migratory baitfish like herring an Makeral.Last yrs mac run along with this springs was pretty dismal.These are the long haul migratory fish that lead the bass on their way north every spring...


Ding, ding, ding---we have a winner :wavey:

I've said for years--if you don't have herring to get the bass into the Canal in May, and dropbacks to keep them around in June, the fishing will be hit or miss until the fall.

What keeps the Canal going these days is small bait--herring fry, peanuts, maybe some sand eels at the east end, silversides in the west end. All late summer baits.

Tagger
07-19-2007, 09:15 PM
I've said for years--if you don't have herring to get the bass into the Canal in May, and dropbacks to keep them around in June, the fishing will be hit or miss until the fall.



Mike ,,not sure but isn't the cycle when a herring is spawn , then later drops to the sea, its like 7 yrs. before that fish comes back to the run and spawns itself . Meaning next year the run could be good with a different yr. class herring,, but still not a healthy run over all with some really Bad (decimated)year classes . I always thought it was wack years back us getting pogeys from jersey .. Few bait shops had native ,but most were jersey pogeys .. No sense in going up on size limit of bass when we can't feed them,,, like last time ..

Pete_G
07-19-2007, 11:46 PM
Yeah Pete. Mike is right. Even at it's worse it doesn't compare to how bad it was in the mid to late 80s. I remember in 85 when I caught 3 schoolies at Deep Hole one morning and I told the guy who ran the old bait shop on Monahans in Narragansett. He told me I was lying. he hadn't seen any Bass for 3 weeks and this was in June.
When the moratorium was on and we went from 34" to 36". We would fish RI 5 out of 7 nights a week and get maybe 1 fish that was a "keeper". There were no peanut bunker and sand eels and silver sides were the bait to be found. We'd pray for the Mullet run around Sept 15th around Weakapaug because you had a shot at a decent fish...maybe one in a week worth of nights. And I'm talking fishing from 10 or 11 till dawn.
So around 87 or 88 we started to run back up to the Cape. We would run the Back all night and maybe find fish at the Mission Bell or laurias for an hour. If we found fish we'd drive home in the morning. Sleep maybe 3 hours, do stuff with the kids and head back up at 6 or 7. I put in tons of 600 mile weekends when the fish were on the upswing in the early 90s.

During this period of time RI surf sucked big time. Everyone would drive from Narrow River to the Sheep's pen to Poind Jude, Deep Hole, Green Hill, Charlestown, Quonnie, Weakapaug, and watch Hill in one night looking, looking and maybe you got a couple of schoolies.

I am firmly convinced that the huge amount of Bunker up in Narr Bay is having an effect on the fishing everywhere. I have never seen so many big fish concentrated in the Bay. I saw fish from the mid teens to the low 20s all morning yesterday in 74 degree water. You NEVER could find fish in water that warm before but there is so much adult Menhaden in the bay the bass are staying on them. The reason? They are easy pickings. I worked a school that was about 2 or 3 acres yesterday. There were probably several thousand bunker in that school all on top with bass and blues under them. High protein diet for the fish without expending a lot of energy.

Just my humble opinion.

Paul


Good stuff, thanks Paul.

I've only been at it in the salt since the early 90's, and only VERY seriously since the mid 90's. A little over a decade or so just doesn't give you that much perspective, overall.

Mike P
07-20-2007, 09:35 AM
Eddy, I think the cycle is a 3 year one, which is why they went with a 3 year moratorium--give the whole biomass from any single run a chance to spawn, and then re-assess the stocks.

I think Bournedale is in big trouble, and should stay closed until they hit the 250,000 fish count.

Of course, since the counter is broken, and the state seems unwilling to give Bourne DNR the money to repair/replace it, no one will really know how many went up this year :rollem: :wall:

NIB
07-20-2007, 02:37 PM
I am pretty sure it is three yrs also...
It doesn't matter between the seals an the trawlers they could give em 100 yrs..
I have seen a show on tv how seals have basically decimated herring stocks up north...

bill huki
07-20-2007, 03:09 PM
At least on the Capes beaches I don't think it is a matter of bait being pushed off shore. It the years when I was lucky enough to have had better fishing then I could have dreamed there was not a lot of bait along the beaches. At least not more or less then now.

The fish that I cleaned would sometimes have a few sand eels inside. Sometimes a squid. Some herring, small macks but it was not like the fish were stuffed, feeding like crazy. I would have nights where you would be catching large fish every cast but when you cleaned the fish they were empty. Every article you read said the fish were starving.

I came to the conclusion that the fish would be 0.50-2 miles out during the day and move inshore for safety at night. It took the fish a couple of years to figure it out but with the seals it was not safe inshore anymore. Unfortunately it is not going to change.

Shake N' Bake
07-20-2007, 07:18 PM
Some of you guys keep talking about no bait...true where you are, but where I am fishing the bait is thick.
I mentioned this 2 weeks ago. I was fishing in Wells Maine. The bait was so thick, it looked as though you were looking at pavement.
It lasted for hours. The waterfowl were having a feast!
2 small stripers!
2 cut lines due to Blues and then NOTHING...and I mean nothing.
6 hours on that bridge.
I would love to know where the Bass are.

RedHerring
07-20-2007, 09:04 PM
I have been fishing at Cuttyhunk and the Islands and it is the worst I have seen in a decade. No fish, not even bluefish.