I made my first trips to CCBay this year for BFT's, and (unbelievably) managed to catch a coupla fish each trip. since then, I've followed some of the sites that are active in that fishery, and have listened to complaints about the purse seiners over-working the giants inside CCB. I've heard there was always a quiet agreement amongst the rec/comm guys that the seiners wouldn't work inside the Bay too-

but I've heard reports of 75 Giant BFT's being captured by this boat since it started fishing the area.....seems like alot to me(?)
then I came across this at another site



Dir. Paul Diodati has put the topic of a ban on purse seiners on the agenda at a meeting this Thursday Oct. 11 at 11am at the Weston Public Library, 87 School St., Weston, MA. The Massachusetts Fisheries Advisory Council will likely vote on this issue depending on attendance. I urge everyone to be there who can. We need to fill the room. You won't have to speak just show support.
Directions: From Rte. 128, take Rte.20 west. Travel just over 1 mile to the first set of lights. Go Left on School St. The library is about 250 yards on the right.


again- I don't know much about this fishery, except I caught a few fish this summer, and wanna be able to continue to do so....
I can't make the meeting (Long drive from CT)- but thought others might like to know.
Bob

The bigger problem is the amount of rec guys fishing for the small fish and not reporting them to the quota. The big fish that the seiners targer have already spawned multiple times and are pretty much guranteed to be reported due to the size of the operation and amount of money involved. 200 boats a day out at the corner killing 2-3 small fish a day is much more of a problem.

I don't think that the purse seiner quota nor the general category quota will be met this year. I may be wrong on that. Many of the purse seiners have been tied to the dock for most of the year. They cannot make a set around a school, unless the school is composed of fish larger than 81 inches (?) I think that's about a 320-pound fish. The schools that have been sighted in the Gulf of Maine have been running smaller than that. There are a lot of small fish around but the giants have been scarce. Scarce and the ones that are caught tend to be lean, the oil and fat content much lower than what it should be for this time of the year. A bad year on the giant grounds. Few fish and if a giant is landed chances are real good the fish is going to stay domestic and fetch jack for a price. The whole situation is tricky--the stocks, the forage, the Gulf of Maine. Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island are not much better. Who knows what is really going on in the Mediterranean--other than a complete fiasco of multi-national mismanagement.

The problem with the tuna fishery is a bait problem!
When was the last time there was whiting or herring on stellwagen bank ???
They will never fatten up eating sand eels!
Mid water trawlers are the problem far more than the seiners!

Every fishery has it's own set of variables and factors, as well as different people fishing for them - recreational, small commercial (solo tuna boats) and large commercial (seiners).

Each one of these groups also get something out of fishing for the tuna - recreational get fun and some food, "small" get some money to supplement either a tradesman wage or the measely dollars they squeeze out of a few other fisheries, "large" get money money and support people working in their operation, job's, business, etc. That being said, all the groups have their own reasons and maybe "right" to fish their style.

Yet, as somewhat of an outsider, I look at the seiners making three sets, well over 100 large total, and I wonder what the impact of that is, and question whether it's almost as bad as what is going on over in the Mediteraean (spelling?). I know for sure that it is basically killing the "small" boats out of all the Mass Harbors - Green Harbor, Marshfield, Provincetown etc. for this fishery. Slowly these guys are getting their profession chipped away and each year more and more are dropping out.

On the recreational side fish are being taken every day, but I'm not sure it's two to three hundred a day (based upon what I've seen at the docks and on the radio, as most of the recreationals can't help but broadcast their success!).

I don't know the right answer, as Ronnie rightly points out it really goes back to the bait. But until that is solved maybe we try to slow-up the take of so many fish - large and small?

Learn from the striped bass fishery - step back and take a look. What would all the bassmasters say if a large commercial operation was permitted to go out and seine up about 1000 30 to 40 pounders in the deep water? Would we protest then?

A little factual information might help, from what I've heard there is only one baot working this year and that boat made one set in CCbay and landed 55 fish.

this discussion goes down the same road as the rec vs comm Striper debate. I spent tons of cash in my trips to the area this year..... probably $2k (or more). all to catch 6 fish, only 3 of wich were retained... it becomes part of the tourism industry, as much as the fishing industry for the area.
who provides/derives the most benefit? who deserves to have their quota/fishery protected???

My mistake if it's not 3 sets - but the tuna guys out of Ptown say the first set was 70 plus, the second 25 to 30, and not sure of the 3rd numbers.

I'm going on that data, but I am sure the right numbers will come out at the meeting.

this discussion goes down the same road as the rec vs comm Striper debate. I spent tons of cash in my trips to the area this year..... probably $2k (or more). all to catch 6 fish, only 3 of wich were retained... it becomes part of the tourism industry, as much as the fishing industry for the area.
who provides/derives the most benefit? who deserves to have their quota/fishery protected???

And of those six fish how many were giants (or over 70 inches)? Over 70 inch fish is what we are talking about here, not the school-sized fish most recreationals target. This is reallu an argument among commercial fishermen. Almost none of the recreational fleet actually targets these big fish.

again- please excuse my ignorance on this, but aren't the regs subject to change year to year?? couldn't the seiners be targeting small-mediums next year too??

The seiners want sushi grade giants to send to Japan, they don't give a hoot about smaller fish because there is no market for them. The seiners have an Gentlemans agreement not to set in CC bay unless they have to, to try to fill there quotas, which they haven't done in a few years. There are only five federal permits for seining giants on the eastern US., three are owned by the same family based in Fairhaven. I'm sure there just trying to catch enough fish so they don't lose there share of the quota. Twenty years ago those permits were worth millions now they aren't worth squat.The New Bedford based boats was sold last year, the New Jersey based boat is for sale now. Raider Ronnie is right without herring the giants will not stick around they swim north to Canada(check there landings). Last year when they threw the mid water boats out of the Gulf of Maine the regs did more harm than good because they pushed the midwater boats out to the banks and let the seiners stay, so more guys bought seiners. So it's gonna get worse for big fish.

Couple of quick clarifications on the seiner issue.

3 sets so far- over 100 fish total.
This is confirmed - one of the best harpooners in NE is 4 boats down from me. His airplane watched all 3 sets, and I also listened to them make the 3rd set on the VHF.

The "gentleman's agreement" someone referred to, was blown out of the water the first year it went into effect.

Mass Banned seining in Cape Cod Bay last season, then over the winter the seiners appealed, and Mass fisheries went back on their previous decision.

Paul Diodati will hear comments on the issue tomorrow, and depending on attendance, they may vote on the issue.

I am personnaly against the seiners taking entire schools of Giant Tuna from protected inshore waters like Cape Cod Bay. Not really looking to debate the topic, but I've been tuna fishing literally my entire life (I'm 35 - started going on the boat consistantly at age 5 and landed my first Giant r and r at age 13), and my family has been at it since the 1950's. I've seen firsthand how devastating this method is and the effect it has on the stocks. This is the only fishing method that removes the entire school from an area - and I do believe in the theories of "imprinting" and localized depletion.
I believe forage issues like herring and midwater trawling are also extremely important to ther health of the fishery.
I'm not an advocate of putting the seiners out of business completely - I just want to see them out of Mass State waters which will hopefully allow the once successful dayboat fishery to flourish again.

I will be at the meeting tomorrow and will hopefully get a chance to say my peace.

Hey big jay I've known the captain of the Diane Marie since I was 5.

I don't know the current captain, but I've known Leonard Ingrande since I was a little kid (I'm guessing he's not running the boat anymore). The man has forgotten more about tuna fishing than I will ever know.

Like I said, I don't want to see them out of business altoghter, just out of the inshore state waters.

the question came up (here, or elsewhere) as to why do the "need" to be able to fish inside the Bay?? why must they work an area thats already being fished by rod 'n reel and recreational boats daily?? if theres only 3 permit holders, why can't they catch their fish outside the Bay- its not like they're gonna be beaten to the fish by another boat? right?

. Last year when they threw the mid water boats out of the Gulf of Maine the regs did more harm than good because they pushed the midwater boats out to the banks and let the seiners stay, so more guys bought seiners. So it's gonna get worse for big fish.

Different seiners. The guys seining herring don't have the permits (and can't get them) to seine for GBFT.

again- please excuse my ignorance on this, but aren't the regs subject to change year to year?? couldn't the seiners be targeting small-mediums next year too??

Yes it is theoretically possible, but the regs haven't changed in years and years. These boats never targeted school or large school fish, only mediums and giants.

the question came up (here, or elsewhere) as to why do the "need" to be able to fish inside the Bay?? why must they work an area thats already being fished by rod 'n reel and recreational boats daily?? if theres only 3 permit holders, why can't they catch their fish outside the Bay- its not like they're gonna be beaten to the fish by another boat? right?

Because that's where the fish are! Every area that has BFT is being fished by R&R commercials and recreationals. Right now there is only one other place on the coast, which is right here off Rhode Island, that is holding any big fish.

First, I am not an expert in Bluefin tuna conservation matters.

But at face value, you have seemingly everyone saying BFT are in trouble, and at the same time, every sport fisherman with a boat targets the small BFT when they're close enough. Seems a little short sighted and illogical.

Makomike I was talking about midwater herring boats being replaced with herring seiners to fish in the Gulf of Maine during the months when the Gulf of Maine is closed to midwater herring boats.

Because that's where the fish are! Every area that has BFT is being fished by R&R commercials and recreationals. Right now there is only one other place on the coast, which is right here off Rhode Island, that is holding any big fish.


That's not entirely true. There are fish offshore right now - not to out anything specific online, but there are fish in other areas.

The main reason they want to fish in the bay is because their gear is extremely effective there. They can set on fish in shallow water and their gear hangs all the way to the bottom - the fish have very little chance to escape. And due to the nature of the seafloor in bay - predominantly sand or mud- they don't hang up the nets. There is also little current here (as opposeded to chatham or even P-Hill) so again, setting is easy.
Also, once the fish come into ther bay, they don't really move far - its a small place, and with a plane spotting, it becomes tiny.
Basically, Cape Cod Bay is a big fish bowl, and with airplanes and nets the size of a football field, they can get every fish they want with little downtime.

The meeting today was well attended, about 100 fisherman.

Mass fisheries has decided to close Cape Cod Bay to seining for 2008 they will have the rest of this year to fish.

It was a very controlled meeting - Leonard spoke for the seiners, Peter Weis for the GCTA/anti-seining contingent, and Rich Ruis answered questions about tuna fishing overall and ICCAT.

Now that this fight is done, I hope everyone can turn their collective attention to the bigger issues of the health of the stocks overall (or lackthereof) and the forage issues.

The problem with the tuna fishery is a bait problem!
When was the last time there was whiting or herring on stellwagen bank ???
They will never fatten up eating sand eels!
Mid water trawlers are the problem far more than the seiners!

No the big problem is the price of tuna. There should be a no sale for a few years; look what it did to the striper fishery.

The price is so high, and marine regulators, seemingly, are so cheap to buy, that bluefin tuna will go extinct unless it is taken off the market here and in Europe. I just do not see how tuna can survive.

No the big problem is the price of tuna. There should be a no sale for a few years; look what it did to the striper fishery.

The price is so high, and marine regulators, seemingly, are so cheap to buy, that bluefin tuna will go extinct unless it is taken off the market here and in Europe. I just do not see how tuna can survive.



No offense, but you are mistaken!
Today's price per pound is peanuts compared to the past!
-Average today is $6 - $12 per lb
Back in the late 80s- early 90s, 3-4 times that!
Also,
Asia is the major buyer for tuna, not Europe !
Our 85 inch fish this year was estimated to be about 5 years old, so I would say they can rejenerate stocks fairly quickly, compared to SLOW growing cod who in my opinion, are in much more trouble than the tuna !
-Get rid of the mid water trawlers
-fix the bait
-get rid of dog fish (who are eating all the bait)
- better regs on taking WAY TOO many small tuna (27 & 47 in fish)

Well said Ron.

I would add that we also need to control the gross overfishing and tuna ranching in the med.

Red Herring is right in one respect - if they shut down all fishing for tuna (Giants and smalls alike) - us and abroad, they would definately come back strong.

I think the goal is managing the fish so that they come back without the drastic step of a full moratorium.

The problem with this whole tuna thing is that you have tuna farms all over the place and as far as a the purse seining boats go half of them got sold and turned into herring boats I fished when all you saw was giants and you had harpoon boats killing the quota by the end of June do you remeber getting rid of the spotter plane's I do how the hell you think these guys find the fish with a temp chart no way it's the planes put some effort into fishing like I do and a lot of other guys out there do because in my opinion you want a giant or just to find fish get a plane but on the other hand get rid of the plane's and it starts a whole new playing field. To this day I know guys that get 40 to 70 giants for the year rod and reel as well as harpoon what do think they have hmm maybe a plane that spots for them don't get me wrong I hate the way these purse seining boats work in the bay killing a whole school of fish too.

Well said Ron.


I think the goal is managing the fish so that they come back without the drastic step of a full moratorium.

That's why tuna is headed for extinction. Everyone is concerned about the stocks, but no one wants to give up their slice of the pie. I am sure that the seiners want to stop the sportsfishing boats just as we want to stop the seiners.

As long as there is a price on their heard, Tuna are doomed. My comment on Europe was misinterpreted; the problem is that our tuna migrate over there so local controls in North America will only solve part of the problem. As far as the price, 6$-$12 pound is still a lot; can you imagine if stripers were that price? There would be gun fights at Block.

You guys are fishing a vestigial tuna population. A moratorium on the sale would be windfall to the charter industry.

-fix the bait

shut down the seiners.

-get rid of dog fish (who are eating all the bait)

they're eating all the bait?
and GREAT IDEA! kill something else to fix the problem!
as if the ecosystem isn't EFFED UP ENOUGH?

they're eating all the bait?
and GREAT IDEA! kill something else to fix the problem!
as if the ecosystem isn't EFFED UP ENOUGH?

The dogfish issue is one of perception; they are palatable. They are used for Fish & Chips in England; why couldn't they be used for, say, MacDonalds fish fillet sandwich (maybe they are!).