Well, I think I figured out why almost no one makes Conrads or Slopeheads. I decided, after seeing all the heartache that people have gone through trying make Conrads without success that I would figure it out. So I did a lot of research and tweaking and after a short bout of the "WTF's" :huh: I got a Sr. Slopehead to swim beatifully, however the plug weighs a hair over 6-ounces and while it has a really nice wiggle to it, I can't think of too many places where I could effectively fish this plug! The thing swims down all of 20-plus feet on a normal length cast and if you bounch bottom, you can't stop and allow to float away from the bottom becasue the lure sinks. I have no pics right now, I will be making a short run of them and I will post pics when I get them painted.

I'm curious if anyone else has tried these lures and had the same findings.

-Dave

I built the sr with a a-40 lip, it sank, heavy plug 6 oz...it worked but I wasn't happy with the action...body was maple...what killed the project for me was ,I didn't think the a-40 was a good diveing lip, good at level swimming and I tryed to build a sinking plug that I could count down to the bottom and swim, but with out the conrad type lip the body was too heavy...it was fun trying:cheers: can't wait to see yours...ed

I'll take one. I have a place in mind for it. :p

I left you a present on Wednesday.

Yea Mike, I know where you mean... but I think it would just rake the bottom....

I found the present... :)

Built some large versions this summer that fished pretty well. Weighed @4oz. The best was heavy birch/unweighted. Sexy slow wobble. Didn't get anything worth bragging about, but it took enough fish that I'm confident using it. It turns out that Pichney made the Jr version out of weighted pine and unweighted maple. I suspect he did the same with the senior version as well, since the birch one I made weighed 4oz with no weight (but the pine one was too light even after weighting it identically to an xrayed pichney, so it got a chin and tail weight to float it lower). As long as you have the shape right and adjust the weight so they float level with the tail slightly under and water above the lip slot I think you will be OK. As I'm sure you are aware, however, the conrad and slope head were two different plugs. Putting a slope head over a conrad lip might be too much (though I'd have thought it would work), as perhaps over weighting a maple version is as well. The original I weighed was @4.2oz.

Thanks George,

I made mine out of AYC after trying some other woods, it took some serious lead, but it sinks slowly and the swimming action is actually really tight and rapid on a slow retrieve... I'll take a look at reducing the weight and redistributing it and see what happens. My big thing is that while I love the action, there aren't many places where one can toss a plug into water that's deep enough to handle that kind of diving without hanging. But if I can figure out how to get it to dive to around 10' then it just might be deadly. This is why I love to build plugs.

-Dave

How deep did yours dive George?

This is the year of the Conrad ,, I'm working on them too .. well not acually working .. Reading your misfortunes has spared me the agony ..tank u boys ..

I made a slopehead senior a couple of years ago.
Wood was southern yellow poplar, small centered weight and a #3 Pikie lip.
Would crawl right down with a nice wiggle but no fish. Only tried it once before the neighbors dog stole it off my picnic table late at night and chewed it, that was not pretty.
Just made a couple out of maple to try, now the rivers here are frozen.

How deep did yours dive George?

I'd say 8-10 feet. You pull it down then slow it and retrieve with your rod low. The Jr seems to run less deep (and with a less appealing action to my eye).

My feeble attempt swam more like an A-40 but cast really well. I need more belly weight, I think and a very closer tuned placement of lip and wire hole. Fractions are crucial with those things.

Don't give up the ship. Wish I had something to add but I don't. What size hooks you putting on the jr. and sr.'s. Conrads? Southern Yellow might be worth a try. Thanks for the idea. Dave are you using the same Conrad type, elongated front danny type, lip?

what's a conrad?
slopehead?

If you are serious, which i am not sure you are B., here are some pictures

why do they weigh so much?
and why are they so hard to make correctly?

look similar to the short captain bill but with 2 hooks and a bit longer

why do they weigh so much?
and why are they so hard to make correctly?

look similar to the short captain bill but with 2 hooks and a bit longer

They have to cast far ,,(a reacher) and swim deep .(not a surface lure).. From what I understand they were a favirote Race Point plug in thier day ..

Hey .. Paul .. are those slope heads considered Conrads also or are they a totally different plug .

They are originally Pichney plugs, Look at Bassdozers site and there is a good explanation of the differences, at least from the eye of a fisherman though not a plugbuilder.

I am no expert but the difference as far as I can see is the obvious slop on the head and the lie tie being lower on the face. Article I read said it gets almost as deep as the Conrad, I would have thought the opposite. I would imagine same lip used but put in middle or slightly lower on the face. Wish I had one to compare the two. Probably same lip. Line tie tuning is probably very important with these plugs. Plugs look to be same size and dimensions. I wish bassdozer site showed the plugs head on too. Anyone who can add to that don't be shy as I am no soothsayer.

I made a slopehead senior a couple of years ago.
Wood was southern yellow poplar, small centered weight and a #3 Pikie lip.
Would crawl right down with a nice wiggle but no fish. Only tried it once before the neighbors dog stole it off my picnic table late at night and chewed it, that was not pretty.
Just made a couple out of maple to try, now the rivers here are frozen.
I looked last night and the latest are made out of cherry. And the river thawed out:thanks:
I will soon know how they swim.

I always wondered why more weren't made. I love the ones I have, but it is scary fishing them at times. Got a couple Pichney conrads that swim WAY deeper than the BM ones. Dave, let me know when they might be available. :wave:

I looked last night and the latest are made out of cherry. And the river thawed out:thanks:
I will soon know how they swim.
Swam one, it's not heavy enough.
Now I need to decide how much weight to add.

Alitte history lesson here....MR.conrad was the first one to make "the conrad"out of an ax handle[ash] to beable to reach out beyond the second bar in PTown where it was very deep...either one was found on the beach or was bought an taken back to NY for copying by Danny pichney...where it was used off a bridge to reach the bottom where the bass lay in wait...no casting needed here because of it's weight..they dropped it straight down and just let it wiggle in the crurrent...I beleive the heavy ones were made just for this reason..then some were made to be lighter for skinny water as time went on as in the way bm made them.

Sounds like the heavy ones would be a good deep water slow boat trolling or boat casting plug maybe.

Sounds like the ones for the bridge were kinda like a "wigglin" jig.

I always wondered why more weren't made.

My understanding is that they were originally used specifically at sandy point. Once the cowboys came out the conrads fell by the wayside.


This seems like the winter of the conrad. Just got my hands on some beautiful maple :humpty:


*** This is specific to BeachMaster Conrads***

Conrad named after Conrad Malicoate who still, in advanced years, lives in P-Town. Made of an axe handle by him to swim deep and reach far into to rip at Race Point. One was lost then found on beach by Tony Chiarrapo and given to one Frank McHugh of New York who hung out in later years at MacReed's in Orleans, Via Frank McHugh to Danny Pichney. Pichney named it the Conrad after Malicoate though the two never met and Mailcoate did not fish that often and eventually just stopped altogether. Malicoates daughter is involved in local politics in P-Town.

Good info flap :kewl:

Thanks Flap ... Wish I could remember this stuff ... then again , its fun always learning new things ...

Conrad named after Conrad Malicoate who still, in advanced years, lives in P-Town. Made of an axe handle by him to swim deep and reach far into to rip at Race Point. One was lost then found on beach by Tony Chiarrapo and given to one Frank McHugh of New York who hung out in later years at MacReed's in Orleans, Via Frank McHugh to Danny Pichney. Pichney named it the Conrad after Malicoate though the two never met and Mailcoate did not fish that often and eventually just stopped altogether. Malicoates daughter is involved in local politics in P-Town.

Thought you would like to get it right before you start any more "stories".

That is all, you can all go back to plug fantasy land now.

and I thought they were named after Conrad Dobler.
http://www.esquire.com/features/what-ive-learned/ESQ1100-NOV_WIL

:thanks:

Look him up. What a savage. Make #^&#^&#^&#^& Butkas look like a girl scout.

Look him up. What a savage. Make #^&#^&#^&#^& Butkas look like a girl scout.

he was the guy who bit someone's ear off..right.

Just a finger that was jammed into his face mask:hee: Mike Tyson is th ear biter

Well, George I messed with the weighting and I was able to remove 2 ounces of lead and after some tweaking I have what I now believe may be a killer in deep water. Hard to tell how deep she goes but I'd venture to guess at least 10 feet. It's a real thumper, but the wiggle is relativley tight. I had to make special belly weights to get the right ammount of weight in the right places.

It now floats, but sits mostly submerged, :cheers:

130 days (or so) 'til I can try it! :yak4:

Still not quite right. Soft maple, no weight, 2.5oz unrigged (.3oz more than they should weigh) float deep, think they'll swim OK.

maybe just pic ... one I have looks longer and slimmer . Pichney

Are yours Jr.'s ?

Yup....Jr's. Hey, Eddy, your white one got a bigger chin hook? Interesting. Somebody who knew plugs owned that one (check out the eye). Is it weighted or not? (For Christ's sake don't cut it if you can't tell).

Yup....Jr's. Hey, Eddy, your white one got a bigger chin hook? Interesting. Somebody who knew plugs owned that one (check out the eye). Is it weighted or not?

weighs 2.6... weighted ? not sure there's only one way for me to find that out .. :eek5:

weighs 2.6... weighted ? not sure there's only one way for me to find that out .. :eek5:

On a Pichney you can see the belly weight hole if it is in there, if not yours is probably maple. 2.5 -2.6 rigged is what the pine ones weigh as well. Not sure why mine are too heavy. Too much sealer, epoxy, too thick a lip? To top it off, my weighted pine ones are too light (2oz unrigged)...go figure.

no visible belly weight .. yes its a Pichney .. Funny,, the hooks bouncing off the wood ,,the sound is very resonant.. sounds like hard wood . Maybe your picking up weight soaking in that crude oil .. My cpes is light and wispy ..

Can you ALWAYS see the weights in a Pichney (new to studying the master)... I borrowed some Pichney large Dannys from Charley Soares and you can't see a belly weight to save your life----I know they're in there though.... I just know it! :laughs:

-Dave

I'd say very visible, didn't try to hide them in the ones I have seen. I'd say it is a heavier wood if no visible signs of belly weight. Like to get the calipers on one of those danny's Dave:hee: George I bet those Jr's will be fine. Nice job.

Can you ALWAYS see the weights in a Pichney (new to studying the master)... I borrowed some Pichney large Dannys from Charley Soares and you can't see a belly weight to save your life----I know they're in there though.... I just know it! :laughs:

-Dave

I haven't seen enough unfished ones to be sure. In the few I have the weight hole is readily evident. If you are looking to know how much weight in a large Danny, I have one that I'll probably xray next week.

Yes I'd like to know that. One of them was still sealed in the original bag, I refused to open it but Charley insisted. Still had the masters thumb print on the lip!

I can't imagine a danny swimming properly w/o weight but my last name is Anderson not Pichney

I haven't seen enough unfished ones to be sure. In the few I have the weight hole is readily evident. If you are looking to know how much weight in a large Danny, I have one that I'll probably xray next week.

Buddy!

all conrads had lead in them 8 to 10 grams even the maples.a 40 lip just wont work maples were made for super fast tides and wont swim right just anywere .stick with pine or ayc .hope i was some help

all conrads had lead in them 8 to 10 grams even the maples.a 40 lip just wont work maples were made for super fast tides and wont swim right just anywere .stick with pine or ayc .hope i was some help

:btu: Thanks
Yes that was some help.

all conrads had lead in them 8 to 10 grams even the maples.a 40 lip just wont work maples were made for super fast tides and wont swim right just anywere .stick with pine or ayc .hope i was some help

wow .. tip of the day ..

Thank you mucho

Nice thread..

I'm gonna try toying with the body shape a little...

I have found with the conrads U have to make the lip.It has a pretty steep face..It's not hard to make a few.
I rough em out with snips an clean em up on the belt sander.
Play with the length of the lower portion of the lip.I made a jr that went 2.7 oz
The lower part of the lip was slightly longer.. I thru it out in a 1 kt current an I could barely bring it back.It had a real wide wobble bam bam bam back an forth.I couldn't even pop it out of the water.I thought about giving it a big shot of lead in the pooper but that would take away from the depth,I thought..
I took it home an ground down the lenght of the lip some an it works nice an tight...
Not sure about the depth.Maybe 5 ft.I think the depths obtained on some wooden lures is slightly over rated...

You mean like these.
http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/showthread.php?t=45686

I made the big ones too. Thanks for the info Tony. I will put it to good use. I am making some Bluestreak A-40 type lips tonite as they are different than the A-40 lips available right now, not a lot but different.

Question for you. How much lead did you put in the belly of the one you made? A big chunk up past the thru wire?

No, If I go thru the wire I pour it in little blasts so it don't go everywhere.
I don't remember how much lead.A good sized chunk.I use whats around an beat it to shape.I do remember it came out heavier than I originally wanted.I messed up the first coat of epoxy an had to go 2 coats which also made it heavier.But it was ok.
Nice lips..