Of the Dynasty??? Anyone not a believer??? They are the greatest team ever put on the field (lets not subject that to the era they play in or the era other teams played in) they are simply the best team that I have ever seen!!!!:uhuh:

No question,
2007 team will go down as one of the greatest ever if they win the super bowl.
But impossible to say greatest ever with different eras, rules,talent levels, amount of money players are getting.

Not a Pats fan by any means but they are one of if not the best teams ever IMO . But as a football fan that was probably the best FOOTBALL game of the season. Congrats to the Pats. :kewl:

Karl I agree 100%....if they don't win it all......it will most definitely be a sidenote! Win the Superbowl and it will be the season that all others are measured by!:kewl:

I'm looking forward to watching a Pats - Colts rematch.

It won't be as close as the last game Ronnie! Pats will crush them!:btu:

If the Browns make the playoffs today, the Pats will have beaten every AFC playoff team, plus two from the NFC, during the season.

Going 16-0 against that kind of a schedule is a tremendous feat and probably won't ever be matched.

As compared to the 14-0 Dolphins who didn't face a winning team until the AFC playoffs? No comparison.

Bingo Mike! Agreed! Pats had the toughest schedule of any team in the league and beat them all!

It won't be as close as the last game Ronnie! Pats will crush them!:btu:



No, the Pats won't crush them.
It will be a great (close) game!

Pats will beat them by 3 touchdowns!

Yep, if they go all the way, with what they will have accomplished, anyone who doesn't think they are the greatest ever and thinks it's the Niners or Bears or God forbid the 72 Fins, they would need their head examined and take off the rose colored glasses because what the Pats faced this year will never be repeated again in our lifetimes.
Congrats Pats on the 16 and 0 now on to the post season, I can't wait and I will be one of the 69,000 12th players' in the house :btu:

If the Browns make the playoffs today, the Pats will have beaten every AFC playoff team, plus two from the NFC, during the season.

Going 16-0 against that kind of a schedule is a tremendous feat and probably won't ever be matched.

As compared to the 14-0 Dolphins who didn't face a winning team until the AFC playoffs? No comparison.

exactly!

The days of "running up the score" are over for this season. Belicheck did what he set out to do in the NFL this year. He fielded an exceptional team and most importantly he raised the level of play in the NFL. You have to admit that the Pats' opponents aren't bringing the sorry arsed style of play now that they were bringing earlier. They're playing all out, partially because the games actually mean something now (the sorry part is they didn't then) and partially because they don't want to get their noses rubbed in it. BB coached them all into playing with pride.

Pats will beat them by 3 touchdowns!


Larry,
The Pats defense had their hands full with a CRAPPY Giants offense,
The Colts are 10 time better.
Whats our wager ???:heybaby:

Larry,
The Pats defense had their hands full with a CRAPPY Giants offense,
The Colts are 10 time better.
Whats our wager ???:heybaby:

Win/Lose bet or points?:heybaby:

so, my point is, if you don't win all the marbles.. it's.. oh well, nice season, too bad you lost.


Congats Pats. :btu:
You nailed it Karl. Our group 4 football team,way back when, went undefeated for
3 years until our senior year when we lost the final state playoff.
That loss still sticks in my mind and nightmares 50 years later.
It's either all the marbles or, "you guys had a good team"

Have to agree with Raider Ron on this one Larry. I can't see that game as a 3 touchdown win. I have had a feeling all year that the Colts will beat the Pats when it counts the most. Hope I'm wrong.

Larry,
The Pats defense had their hands full with a CRAPPY Giants offense,
The Colts are 10 time better.
Whats our wager ???:heybaby:

Excuse me--that is not a crappy offense. It's an inconsistent offense, but there is talent there--much more so than the Ravens and the Eagles. As maligned as Manning is, he's a better QB than AJ Feeley and light years better than Kyle Boller. Jacobs missed 5 full games and still rushed for over 1000 yards. Burress on one leg is still better than 90% of the wideouts around the league.

Mike I thought you converted,,guess not.

[QUOTE=Mike P;550975]Excuse me--that is not a crappy offense. It's an inconsistent offense, but there is talent there--much more so than the Ravens and the Eagles. As maligned as Manning is, he's a better QB than AJ Feeley and light years better than Kyle Boller. Jacobs missed 5 full games and still rushed for over 1000 yards. Burress on one leg is still better than 90% of the wideouts around the league.[/QUOTE



BIG difference between the Colts and Giants offense !!!
Also, the colts have been the best in the league on defense against the pass! the Pats strength!

If the Browns make the playoffs today, the Pats will have beaten every AFC playoff team, plus two from the NFC, during the season.

Going 16-0 against that kind of a schedule is a tremendous feat and probably won't ever be matched.

As compared to the 14-0 Dolphins who didn't face a winning team until the AFC playoffs? No comparison.

If the Pats do not win the superbowl it will be less of a feat than the Dolphins.

The days of "running up the score" are over for this season. Belicheck did what he set out to do in the NFL this year. He fielded an exceptional team and most importantly he raised the level of play in the NFL. You have to admit that the Pats' opponents aren't bringing the sorry arsed style of play now that they were bringing earlier. They're playing all out, partially because the games actually mean something now (the sorry part is they didn't then) and partially because they don't want to get their noses rubbed in it. BB coached them all into playing with pride.

THIS IS SO TRUE.
Best coach ever.
Period.
You can argue about best qb, running back, linebacker, ect. [not many arguements about wr].
But Bill B. will go down in history as the greatest football coach to ever step on the field.

Add the Redskins to that list......

If the Browns make the playoffs today, the Pats will have beaten every AFC playoff team, plus two from the NFC, during the season.

Going 16-0 against that kind of a schedule is a tremendous feat and probably won't ever be matched.

As compared to the 14-0 Dolphins who didn't face a winning team until the AFC playoffs? No comparison.

THIS IS SO TRUE.

But Bill B. will go down in history as the greatest football coach to ever step on the field.

You guys are so caught up in the hype up there but he will be in the top 5 but the best ever please your arrogance stinks!!!

You guys are so caught up in the hype up there but he will be in the top 5 but the best ever please your arrogance stinks!!!

who was better & why?

Bills winning percentage is among the elite and might possibly be the best! His post season winning percentage is the best in NFL history! He has won 3 Superbowls and is not done yet! Who is better???Who??? Lombardi???? Sorry...no! Chuck Knoll??? Please!!! Schula??? No!!! Landry??? Uh-uh!! Parcells??? Not on your life!!! They win the Superbowl this year to crown the undefeated season and you can put Bills name on the top of the list for all time with no question!!! Right now I still think he is the best and smartest coach in history!

its very difficult to say but their are many that are up there, and it is very difficult to say that one coach is better comparing from various decades.

What makes you say 100% that it is BB is the better question?

Lombardi would get my vote, but you can make an argument for others. If BB and the patriots win the superbowl he would have catapulted up there and if he wins one or two more with this team then you would have to give it to him and alot of other patriots as best in their position (but that is always argumentative).

Definetly top 5 coach of all-time, but to say he is the best ever is arrogance at its best. with that said I would take him as coach of my team anyday.

I will take arrogance then I guess.....cause' he manages a team, its players and the entire way they function better than any other coach ever!

what makes bb better than lombardi or knoll or the big tuna???

The game changes decade to decade its not that easy to just say one is better than the other.

Winning percentage how many times a year does he play the bills, jets and miami??? every thing can be knocked for everyone.

Knoll's drafting ability was unprecedented and still to this day is unmatched, but with free-agency the game is different today.

One day the Patriots will not be the juggernaut that they were. for a dynasty team to not make the playoffs one year in their run doesn't help the coach. I know it seems very long ago but 9-7 in 2002 following the superbowl win was not a great season.

Oh yes, Spy gate does not help. :huh:

what makes bb better than lombardi or knoll or the big tuna???

You had a great argument going until you threw the Big Tuna in the Mix......Both his superbowls were won on Defense.....and who was his Defensive Coordinator???

I'm surprised nobody mentioned Joe Gibbs....I personally think he is one of the Best Coaches ever....top 3 for sure....right along with Belichek.

Gibbs one 3 superbowls with 3 different QB's...

Shula's a Hack....guy couldn't win a Superbowl with one of the Best QB's to ever play the game.

wrikerjr - What team do you root for?
Here at S-B most of us are life long Pats fans, and know exactly what the lean years were like. If any team was due for good fortune, it's the Patriots.

In Bill we trust, after all he is
The Greatest Coach Ever

Spygate?? Please....they all do it.....they have also proved they can outright win so lets put that to bed!

They play the Bills, Jets and Miami 2 times....whats your point there??? You do not agree they had the toughest schedule in all of football this season??

Are you saying they are not a Dynasty because the season after their first Superbowl win they went 9-7??? After they went 9-7 they won back to back Superbowls.......soooooo....whats your point?

You had a great argument going until you threw the Big Tuna in the Mix......Both his superbowls were one on Defense.....and who was his Defensive Coordinator???

Good coaches put the right people in the right places. I never said that BB was not a great coach I just said you guys get ought of shape sometimes throwing out the best ever! top 5 yes, but best ever many arguments against that!!!

[QUOTE=fishsmith;551140]wrikerjr - What team do you root for?
Here at S-B most of us are life long Pats fans, and know exactly what the lean years were like. If any team was due for good fortune, it's the Patriots.
QUOTE]

I am a life long cowboy fan, I am use to lean times, I am use to great dynasties as well. Who do I owe it to the best owner in football.

You could argue with many people that their team is due. I know a ton of Jets fans who would say that they are due for good fortune. You can't argue with that.

I do admit that you have a dynasty, yes, its true, but to say BB is the best coach ever you guys are getting a going a little far.

Who is the best receiver ever - Moss?
Best QB ever - Brady?
Best Linebacker ever - ?
They are not all patriots - ?

Spygate?? Please....they all do it.....they have also proved they can outright win so lets put that to bed!

They play the Bills, Jets and Miami 2 times....whats your point there??? You do not agree they had the toughest schedule in all of football this season??

Are you saying they are not a Dynasty because the season after their first Superbowl win they went 9-7??? After they went 9-7 they won back to back Superbowls.......soooooo....whats your point?

Big fish - when did I not say they were not a dynasty, don't say I said that, because i truly believe that you are but interestingly you bring that up, interesting. I think it is definetly a blemish on BB as a coach that he failed to bring his team to the playoffs in their dynasty run. Its a nock

They did not have the toughest schedule in football, yes, it is true. Published by the nfl 2007 strength of schedule new England .473

Colts.516
cowboys .496
Jaguars .516
Redskins .555
Eagles .563
etc.

Spygate, unfortunately you will have to live with that when you break the rules you have to live with the consequences.

I guess the consequences of spygate are a 16-0 regular season and whatever happens in the playoffs....I can live with that! I think that was blown way out of proportion.....teams steal signals all the time!

My definition of a dynasty is they compete at the highest level of the game over several seasons in a row and win at least 3 Superbowls in that run! The dynasty is established and is poised to be the greatest in history! Like it or not!

We both have opinions Wrikerjr, and I do respect yours. Its all good conversation and it really is opinion as I do agree there are many ways to argue the points.

I was a huge 49'er fan during their run and thought I would never see a team better than them......but here we are and I think this team is tons better than those 49'er teams.....I do wish there were a maching we could use to bring the 2 teams together and let them slug it out.....that would be fun!:jump:

They did not have the toughest schedule in football, yes, it is true. Published by the nfl 2007 strength of schedule new England .473

Colts.516
cowboys .496
Jaguars .516
Redskins .555
Eagles .563
etc.




I'm a Giants fan, but I have to give credit where it's due. If the Colts played a serious game last night, the Browns would be in the playoffs, not the Titans. Which would have meant that the Pats played all 5 of the other AFC playoff teams, and also beat 3 of the six NFC playoff teams, including the team with the best record in the NFC. The Pats schedule is skewed by having to play the dog-assed Jets and Dolphins twice. Philly on the other hand had to play 3 playoff teams in their division twice. That tough schedule might mean more if they managed to win more than 2 of those 6 games.

Strength of schedule is all well and good, but when the team with the strongest schedule goes 8-8, what's the significance of having a margainally better schedule that a team that won all 16?

[QUOTE=wrikerjr;551168][QUOTE=fishsmith;551140]wrikerjr - What team do you root for?
Here at S-B most of us are life long Pats fans, and know exactly what the lean years were like. If any team was due for good fortune, it's the Patriots.
QUOTE]

I am a life long cowboy fan, I am use to lean times, I am use to great dynasties as well. Who do I owe it to the best owner in football.

You could argue with many people that their team is due. I know a ton of Jets fans who would say that they are due for good fortune. You can't argue with that.

I do admit that you have a dynasty, yes, its true, but to say BB is the best coach ever you guys are getting a going a little far.

Who is the best receiver ever - Moss?



Jerry Rice is the best receiver ever!
Lots would say he's the best football player ever!

I'm a Giants fan, but I have to give credit where it's due. If the Colts played a serious game last night, the Browns would be in the playoffs, not the Titans. Which would have meant that the Pats played all 5 of the other AFC playoff teams, and also beat 3 of the six NFC playoff teams, including the team with the best record in the NFC. The Pats schedule is skewed by having to play the dog-assed Jets and Dolphins twice. Philly on the other hand had to play 3 playoff teams in their division twice. That tough schedule might mean more if they managed to win more than 2 of those 6 games.

Strength of schedule is all well and good, but when the team with the strongest schedule goes 8-8, what's the significance of having a margainally better schedule that a team that won all 16?

Your looking at 2006 sos not 2007.

Someone said they have the third highest which is not true look up 2007 sos.

[QUOTE=wrikerjr;551168][QUOTE=fishsmith;551140]wrikerjr - What team do you root for?
Here at S-B most of us are life long Pats fans, and know exactly what the lean years were like. If any team was due for good fortune, it's the Patriots.
QUOTE]

I am a life long cowboy fan, I am use to lean times, I am use to great dynasties as well. Who do I owe it to the best owner in football.

You could argue with many people that their team is due. I know a ton of Jets fans who would say that they are due for good fortune. You can't argue with that.

I do admit that you have a dynasty, yes, its true, but to say BB is the best coach ever you guys are getting a going a little far.

Who is the best receiver ever - Moss?



Jerry Rice is the best receiver ever!
Lots would say he's the best football player ever!

I bet you 90% of the people on here would say that Montana and Rice is not as good as Moss and Brady.

Jerry Rice is the best receiver ever!


I won't argue that....he was amazing. Set his record in a strike shortened season too....

Before we start arguing who the Greatest coach is should we define what make a Coach Great. Is it his Career Win/Loss totals? is it his Championships won? Once you define what it takes then you can say who is the Greatest

Dad fisherman,

I think it is a multiple of those that you suggested, but I like the way this thread is heading.

Some of those items will be uncalculated, like winning with less talent and various other things.

Motivation, Drafting ability, etc.

Many things that make a great coach come through all facets of the organization so it is difficult to say.

Obvious one's would inlude championships. To be a great coach you need to have won at least one championship and if you have multiple then you are doing something to be included with the greats.

Yeah,that was me..Obviously you didn't bother to read the article I linked. So I'll do it for you again (try reading it this time) and note that it is in regard to the
2007 Strength of Schedule
Pats have a .535 FYI
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2830466
Which is calculated based on the 2006 W/L records...

I read the article, and I really don't need you to tell me what to read again and again if you can't understand the concept that the 2007 sos is based on your opponents win/loss percentage in 2007 and not 2006. I can't help you The sos you are looking at is old and is used to create the schedule for 2007 and the draft for last year. when was that article April??? Enough said

if you still don't understand let me break it down. The problem is the sos for this year and this years draft is based on the winning percentage of your opponents in this year 2007, not the 2007 sos. The fact that a team plays Chicago was great last year and sucked this year will not help your SOS when its looked at after the season is over.

Pats do not have a .535 they have a .473. My friend that pat's did not have the 3rd hardest sos in 2008 its impossible in their divisions. I was correcting someone's comments, its qa mute point because they don't make there schedule. The major point is that it is well above Miami's sos when they were perfect.

The simple fact is that if the Patriots win the super bowl, they beat the best of the best, that is what the playoff does. That accomplishment will be up there with one of the greatest feats ever in sports, definetly the best football feat ever.

This thread has gotten way off line, people said that BB is the greatest and that is what I debated. people are saying i keep saying no dynasty and sos is weak. I didn't say that I am just correcting some of you.

Bottom line if you go undefeated in regular and post season no one can ever say a word, including myself and then I would have to give BB the nod over Knowles/Lombardi/Gibbs/Landry as the greatest greatest coaches ever.

[QUOTE=Raider Ronnie;551281][QUOTE=wrikerjr;551168]

I bet you 90% of the people on here would say that Montana and Rice is not as good as Moss and Brady.


I'll take that bet

Jerry Rice was the best reciever

Brady is making a great case for himself to pass Montana and I believe that he will soon enough.

There can be no denying that after this season once the Pats win their 4th superbowl, that it will be a fact that they are they greatest team ever :D

Can't argue that. No way no how

I will say Brady is better than Montana without hesitation! Give Moss a few more seasons catching Brady and they will be the best tandem ever...better than Montana and Rice!

Right now...not yet!

Rice was alot different receiver than Moss though......his yards after the catch were awesome! He was always on the fly when Montana hit him! Rice is one of my all-time favorites!

Wow..So now sos AND draft position are related?However you wanna spin it guy.One has NOTHING to do with the other..Going into the season,sos had Pats at third.. The Pats are picking seventh in April. You're probably going to tell me it has something to do with opponent's wins/losses from this year..Whatever you wanna make of it...The facts are the facts..The Pats have beaten many of the top ten teams in the league (Colts,Cowboys and Giants on the road)..Argue "your " sos all you want....


You lost your 1st rounder this year. Your 7th round pick is from San Francisco. I am not going to teach you about the draft, you will have to look it up but SOS weighs in when your tied and its the 2008 sos. The p[atriots did not have the 3rd toughest schedule in the nfl my friend is all i am saying.

Seeing as to how Brady and Moss have played one year together, I doubt it :rollem:
If you wanna debate Brady and Montana head to head,I'll take it.. Montana had the greatest WR to throw to most of his career. How many HOF's came out of those 49ers SB teams?And how many will come from the Pats?.Brady's had a bunch of journeymen WR's,until this year. Brady's won 3 SB's and got the Pats to within a first down of getting to last year's SB with nothing more than spare parts for a receiving corps. Trailing with two minutes left in the game,there's no QB in the history of the NFL I'd want under center going for the win....

I will have to admit that Brady is up there with Montana that is undeniable. with under two minutes to go in a superbowl I would take Montana if you needed a touchdown

Strike King, are you going to plugfest?

Thanks for the refresher on the pick situation..I had no idea we lost ours.You said the sos was posted by the NFL a few posts ago

..Where's a link to the story?

No problem on the refresher anytime. I don't know where the link is look it up or do a search on sos in nfl and don't look at last year. FYI if the article is from April it is old!!!

Actually, i did try looking it up and i couldn't find it either. All I could find is the 2007 from the start of the year.

A lot of the arguing would probaly stop if you posted where you got your info from...then everyone would read it and we could move on to something else in the debate.

No problem on the refresher anytime. I don't know where the link is look it up or do a search on sos in nfl and don't look at last year. FYI if the article is from April it is old!!!

Outside NE it seems like the more knowlegdable football fans are slowly giving the Pats their props, what choice do they have at this point. Belicheck has won with nobodies and stars, beside going 19-0 what more can he do. I can see why its tuff to measure greatness in the same way it hard to measure jealousy

That was said sarcastically,which doesn't translate well over the net..But thanks anyways ;)

If I can get out of working that day,I will be Slip....

wow explaining my tone, thanks i appreciate it!!!:hee:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_NFL_Draft

strength of schedule is included in here.

Your looking at 2006 sos not 2007.



No, I'm looking at the NFL playoff picture that starts this weekend.

6 teams from each conference qualify.

Of the 5 other AFC teams--the Pats beat 3--who just happen to be all 3 of the other divisional winners.

Of the NFC teams, the Pats also beat 3--including the team with the best record in the NFC, on their field, by 3 touchdowns.

Every NFC team on their schedule had at least a .500 record.

They also beat a 10-6 AFC team that didn't make the playoffs.

The NFL schedule requires you to play a home and home series against every other team in your division. It isn't the Pats' fault that the Bills had a mediocre year, and that the Jets and Dolphins were horrendous.

Playing and beating 6 of the other 11 playoff qualifiers--including two 13-3 teams on the road--kind of trumps playing 6 games against your own divisional cupcakes. And lest anyone forget, both of those 13-3 teams were undefeated when the Pats played them.

This isn't college ball where Ohio State can go out and schedule Bowling Green for 4 straight years. You get handed a schedule by the league, and you play it.

In 1972, Miami beat the teams the schedule makers put in front of them. They're knocked for it today, but it was what they had in front of them. They still beat two good teams in the AFC playoffs and the NFC champion in the Super Bowl.

I will take arrogance then I guess.....cause' he manages a team, its players and the entire way they function better than any other coach ever!


But Bill B. will go down in history as the greatest football coach to ever step on the field.


Bill Belichick = Greatest football coach ever! period :jump:

No, I'm looking at the NFL playoff picture that starts this weekend.

6 teams from each conference qualify.

Of the 5 other AFC teams--the Pats beat 3--who just happen to be all 3 of the other divisional winners.

Of the NFC teams, the Pats also beat 3--including the team with the best record in the NFC, on their field, by 3 touchdowns.

Every NFC team on their schedule had at least a .500 record.

They also beat a 10-6 AFC team that didn't make the playoffs.

The NFL schedule requires you to play a home and home series against every other team in your division. It isn't the Pats' fault that the Bills had a mediocre year, and that the Jets and Dolphins were horrendous.

Playing and beating 6 of the other 11 playoff qualifiers--including two 13-3 teams on the road--kind of trumps playing 6 games against your own divisional cupcakes. And lest anyone forget, both of those 13-3 teams were undefeated when the Pats played them.

This isn't college ball where Ohio State can go out and schedule Bowling Green for 4 straight years. You get handed a schedule by the league, and you play it.

In 1972, Miami beat the teams the schedule makers put in front of them. They're knocked for it today, but it was what they had in front of them. They still beat two good teams in the AFC playoffs and the NFC champion in the Super Bowl.

I agree 100% I agree that you beat the premier teams in the league, I have never agrued any of that or said anyhting about that. I have never said anythin against that, going back in the thread someone said they had the 3rd toughest sos and they were wrong they are looking at the old sos that the league uses to determine the schedules.

I agree 100% you don't make the schedule and you can't control who you play you just go out and win.

I am very willing to say that if NE wins the superbowl then they are the best team ever assembled but until then they will have to win the superbowl.

everyone seems to think I said that NE's accomplishment is diminished by their SOS. That is not true and I never said.:bsod:

I do think if NE does not win the superbowl the 16-0 season is heavily diminished :think:and I do not believe that BB is the greatest coach ever, i believe he is top 5 but not the greatest ever.:uhoh:

with that said it should be a great playoff and I fully expect after every NE win pm's from people telling me how wrong I am.

I do not believe that BB is the greatest coach ever, i believe he is top 5 but not the greatest ever.:uhoh:



Then who do you think IS the Greatest? How about you list your top 5? :hee:

Then who do you think IS the Greatest? How about you list your top 5? :hee:

I think you have to give serious consideration to Bill Walsh.

If you go back to the 60, and even into the mid 70s, head coaches didn't have the army of assistants that they do nowadays. Much of game planning, and especially the in-game adjustments, was the head coach's job. Guys like Hank Stram and Sid Gilman were tremendous at both jobs, and true innovators.

Bill Walsh would be in my top 5......Chuck Knoll, Lombardi, Landry, and.......Bill Belichik!

Then who do you think IS the Greatest? How about you list your top 5? :hee:

1. Paul Brown
2. Chuck Noll (tie with lombardi)
2. Vince Lombardi (tie with lombardi)
4. Bill Belichick
5. Tom Landry

I would love to put Madden on the list but I just can't do it.

Go ahead and pick it apart as I know everyone will!!!

lets hear everyone else's list

Bill Walsh would be in my top 5......Chuck Knoll, Lombardi, Landry, and.......Bill Belichik!

Can you please rank them, a lot of people here are saying that Bill Belichick is the best ever. do you agree???

Tough to pick a top 5 for sure....I was waffling over Joe Gibbs....could have easily put him in there!

Madden???? Not even on the radar! What are his credentials.....1 Superbowl and what else? Did he even coach that long??

Oh ok!

5. Bill Walsh
4. Chuck Knoll
3. Tom Landry
2. Lombardi
1. Bill Belichik

Tough to put them in order too.....Belichik is definitely my number 1!

madden coaches less than 10 years and had 1 superbowl and the greatest winning percentage of coaches ever and the greatest winning percentage for a decade period.

I can't get the image of Madden out of my head where in the Superbowl (forget which it was) the Pats could have sat on the ball and gone into overtime and taken their chances or played for the win, which they did and won and Madden thought their decision was a poor one.....until they won! Was it the St. Louis game?? I forget?

Oh ok!

5. Bill Walsh
4. Chuck Knoll
3. Tom Landry
2. Lombardi
1. Bill Belichik

Tough to put them in order too.....Belichik is definitely my number 1!

where is brown. that my friend is a travesty 7 championships, most of the people on your list got their start with brown and have aknowledged what he has done for the game and coaching. he changed the game as we know it today. Not having him on your list highly devalues your list. I don't even know why I have to defend him.

I can't get the image of Madden out of my head where in the Superbowl (forget which it was) the Pats could have sat on the ball and gone into overtime and taken their chances or played for the win, which they did and won and Madden thought their decision was a poor one.....until they won! Was it the St. Louis game?? I forget?

yes the rams game the 1st of their 3 titles.

madden coaches less than 10 years and had 1 superbowl and the greatest winning percentage of coaches ever and the greatest winning percentage for a decade period.


Quickest and youngest coach to get 100 wins also!

Tough to pick a top 5 for sure....I was waffling over Joe Gibbs....could have easily put him in there!

Madden???? Not even on the radar! What are his credentials.....1 Superbowl and what else? Did he even coach that long??


Gee Larry
How about giving some credit when it's due and not being such a homer!!!
Yes he only coached for 10 years but he stopped because of health reason and fear of flying !
10 years-7 trips to the afc championship game and either having to play the Steelers or Miami and yes 1 super bowl win.
Some experts even thought he was good enough to put him in the hall of fame !
And 90% of all other coaches would have played it safe and sat on it and played for overtime!

Yeah thats pretty good Ron! 7 AFC Championship games and only won what 2 of those and 1 Superbowl? I don't care who they were up against...he couldn't get it done! To be the best you have to beat the best! Marv Levy......great coach.....4 Superbowl births and couldn't win one......that hurts him on the top coaches list just as it hurts Madden. In my opinion! Same with Parcells......can't win the big ones!

Yeah thats pretty good Ron! 7 AFC Championship games and only won what 2 of those and 1 Superbowl? I don't care who they were up against...he couldn't get it done! To be the best you have to beat the best! Marv Levy......great coach.....4 Superbowl births and couldn't win one......that hurts him on the top coaches list just as it hurts Madden. In my opinion! Same with Parcells......can't win the big ones!


So how many wins would this Pats team have against that 70s Steelers team ???
Also, I don't think Knoll was that great of a coach to be on a list.
That defense made him look great !

Oh ok!

5. Bill Walsh
4. Chuck Knoll
3. Tom Landry
2. Lombardi
1. Bill Belichik

Tough to put them in order too.....Belichik is definitely my number 1!

I'd lose Landry and put Gibbs in...Guy won 3 SB with 3 different QB's....not to shabby

I don't buy into that "what if" line of argument! This team, in their time in their era are doing things that are unrivaled! Yes....thats right! UNRIVALED! That "GREAT" Pittsburg team did not have this long of a run and it shows no sign of ending! By the time the Pats are done re-writing the record books it might be 5 years from now or longer!

"What if the Pats played the dynasty 49'ers?".....:bc:....."What if the Pats played the Steeler dynasty?"....:bc:......I will take my chances with this Pats team against any team you want to name.......since it can't be done its kind of a stupid argument! Don't you think?? I do!

To clarify my feelings on the "What If" arguments......I think players from yesterday were alot tougher than any of todays players! Take the 2007 Red Sox......do I think they could beat the 1961 Yankees???!!!! Not in a million years!!! Those players from years ago ate nails and breathed fire......they were real, hard working, hard playing athletes who had to kill themselves to retain their jobs......not like todays whining, spoiled breed of athlete! Players today are what we have and what we have made them.....society has changed and so have the times!

To clarify my feelings on the "What If" arguments......I think players from yesterday were alot tougher than any of todays players! Take the 2007 Red Sox......do I think they could beat the 1961 Yankees???!!!! Not in a million years!!! Those players from years ago ate nails and breathed fire......they were real, hard working, hard playing athletes who had to kill themselves to retain their jobs......not like todays whining, spoiled breed of athlete! Players today are what we have and what we have made them.....society has changed and so have the times!



I will say this!
I didn't think Tom Brady was that talented or great early in his career,
But I love how he has made himself great through HARD WORK, and the fact that he takes less money for the good of the team so they can spend it on other players that he need so he can be great!
Is refreshing in this day of SPOILED MILLIONAIRES!

I agree Ron! Players like Brady are few and far between!

Yeah thats pretty good Ron! 7 AFC Championship games and only won what 2 of those and 1 Superbowl? I don't care who they were up against...he couldn't get it done! To be the best you have to beat the best! Marv Levy......great coach.....4 Superbowl births and couldn't win one......that hurts him on the top coaches list just as it hurts Madden. In my opinion! Same with Parcells......can't win the big ones!

Madden won one buddy so how does it hurt him. he is a great coach not on the top 5 but definetly top 10. he also happened to coach against a dynasty that many believe could beat your dynasty, the 70 steelers.

No one can say definetly who would win, because the game is much different now then just 10 years ago nevermind the 70s. 4 championships in 6 years my friend is something of a massive accomplishment. Your NE patriots would have to win back to back again to get 4 in 6. what do you think the odds of that are???

[QUOTE=wrikerjr;551659]Madden won one buddy so how does it hurt him. he is a great coach not on the top 5 but definetly top 10. he also happened to coach against a dynasty that many believe could beat your dynasty, the 70 steelers.

My point to larry, Madden was a great coach, certainly not the greatest
But to say he's not even on the radar is stupid !

[QUOTE=wrikerjr;551659]Madden won one buddy so how does it hurt him. he is a great coach not on the top 5 but definetly top 10. he also happened to coach against a dynasty that many believe could beat your dynasty, the 70 steelers.

My point to larry, Madden was a great coach, certainly not the greatest
But to say he's not even on the radar is stupid !

Smartest thing on this thread. Imagine if he would not have retired. He failed to mention Paul brown as well!!! No one is giving Paul brown any love, whats up with that???

In my opinion! Same with Parcells......can't win the big ones!

Parcells can't win the big ones--are you on drugs? :rollem:

Are you forgetting the two he won with the Giants, and the one he kept a close and competitive game for your guys, during a stretch when the AFC teams were getting their heads handed to them on a platter--by halftime?

He won his two with a better than average QB, but one who'll never be listed on anyone's top 10 list, in Simms, and a career journeyman named Hoestettler. In the second one, he went in as an underdog and came up with a game plan the controlled the clock and kept Kelly and company on the sideline.

I hate the guy but you have to give him credit where it's due. And don't feed me that crap about how it was really Belichick who was the genius pulling his strings on the sideline--hell, I could have been a defensive coordinator on a team that had LT, Harry Carson, Carl Banks, Jimmy Burt and Leonard Hamilton starting for me.

There have been a lot of great coaches who won Super Bowls with great QBs. Joe Gibbs won them with Doug Williams and Mark Rypien at QB.

And any list of great coaches without Hank Stram on it is an incomplete one.

Parcells can't win the big ones--are you on drugs? :rollem:

Are you forgetting the two he won with the Giants, and the one he kept a close and competitive game for your guys, during a stretch when the AFC teams were getting their heads handed to them on a platter--by halftime?

He won his two with a better than average QB, but one who'll never be listed on anyone's top 10 list, in Simms, and a career journeyman named Hoestettler. In the second one, he went in as an underdog and came up with a game plan the controlled the clock and kept Kelly and company on the sideline.

I hate the guy but you have to give him credit where it's due. And don't feed me that crap about how it was really Belichick who was the genius pulling his strings on the sideline--hell, I could have been a defensive coordinator on a team that had LT, Harry Carson, Carl Banks, Jimmy Burt and Leonard Hamilton starting for me.

There have been a lot of great coaches who won Super Bowls with great QBs. Joe Gibbs won them with Doug Williams and Mark Rypien at QB.

And any list of great coaches without Hank Stram on it is an incomplete one.



Hey Mike
If you ask me the 86 Giants team is one of the best i've ever seen !
I sat in the L A coliseum and watched them play the Raiders that year.
A close tough game!
I can still see Marc Bavaro carrying 1/2 the Raiders defence on his back and he wouldn't go down !
They the killed everyone in their way (including the 49ers) in the playoffs!

Hey Mike
If you ask me the 86 Giants team is one of the best i've ever seen !
I sat in the L A coliseum and watched them play the Raiders that year.
A close tough game!
I can still see Marc Bavaro carrying 1/2 the Raiders defence on his back and he wouldn't go down !
They the killed everyone in their way (including the 49ers) in the playoffs!


Best set of linebackers ever assembled. Carson finally got the recognition he deserved from Canton. If he played in a standard 4-3 instead of a 3-4 he would have made it years ago--but 3-4 inside backers don't get the same respect as a MLB in a 4-3. :(

I don't think Larry factors a five year 36-44 record with the Browns when determining the best coach ever !!!
Larry,
When are you going to listen.
IT'S A TEAM GAME !!!
LOTS of things have to fall into place for the team to win!
To me the greatest coach is one who changed the way the game is played!
Like Sid Gillman
Paul Brown
Lombardi
Bill Walsh
Also in this list I would include Buddy Ryan but as an assistant coach (defensive coordinator)

i enjoyed this thread very much. Thanks for the fresh perspective guys and happy new year.

I'm throwing Bill Parcells into this. I hate the guy for the way he left the Pats, and I love that "I just swallowed a turd" look he has when he loses, but think about his legacy. Besides the two Super Bowls, he has spawned the careers of many head coaches. Arguably, you could say that without Parcells there'd be no Bill Belichick, Charlie Weis, Tom Coughlin, Romeo Crennel, Dan Henning, Al Groh, Sean Payton, and I'm sure a few more that I've forgotten.

I'm throwing Bill Parcells into this. I hate the guy for the way he left the Pats, and I love that "I just swallowed a turd" look he has when he loses, but think about his legacy. Besides the two Super Bowls, he has spawned the careers of many head coaches. Arguably, you could say that without Parcells there'd be no Bill Belichick, Charlie Weis, Tom Coughlin, Romeo Crennel, Dan Henning, Al Groh, Sean Payton, and I'm sure a few more that I've forgotten.

He also did what no one else has done in the last 25 years---coached the Jets into the AFC championship game ;)