First off.....I want to start out by saying I have great respect for Peyton Manning and believe him to be one of the most talented QB's I have ever seen......ever! That being said, I have been listening to many of the sports talk shows recently and hearing the talk about Tom Brady being the best Quarterback that has ever played the game! I could not agree more but I believe Peyton Manning to be right up there! My question is this.......how do you think Peyton Mannings game would change if he were wearing Patriots colors and throwing for this team??? Would he improve??? Or would he not improve???

that is very difficult to say. Peyton is definetly an elite QB, but he has also been a victim of some very unlucky plays at times.

As far as being on the patriots, I assume you mean the patriots this year with all the weapons. I am not sure that it would change his game much. He can make every throw in the book, and make it extremely well. The colts have a great offensive attack, not like the patriots attack that will probably go down as one of the best ever. The issue that I could see is with the coaches. the coaching styles of BB and Dungy are very different and I am not sure that Manning would blend with BB. There have been games were peyton would be calling the plays. I don't think BB would really accept that.

what makes this difficult is that Peyton had the 2nd best quarterback season ever a few years ago on the colts and he has won a championship. Some of his playoff losses were not on his shoulders.

I agree with most of what you say! I can't even wrap my head around my own question! To put it simply, as you say, with the weapons we have on the Pats right now......plug Manning into the Brady outlet.....what would happen....coaching aside?

I think first of all, of the time Manning might have in the pocket as Brady has had......what a benefit! Then I think of Randy Moss catching Manning, who I think is one of the best "long pass" tossers of all time! The guy can thread a needle from 60 yards away! Marvin Harrison is good but he is no Randy Moss! I think the thought of it is scary!

Two totally different QB's. Brady has everything Peyton has but Brady has greater vision, quicker release, ability to look off defenders better and is much more patient in the pocket. Did you ever see Peyton fight off defenders like Tom does? He's a special player for sure.

I agree with all of those Dave.......thats what makes Brady the best! He is cooooollll under pressure!

Both are great !
Not worth arguing.
Brady will never play for the Colts and Manning will never play for the Pats.

I will say,
Tom has had a bit easier rd traveled being able to sit behind Bledsoe and learn for a few years.
Manning had the weight of the team on his back from day 1, starting from his rookie season.

What the hell did Drew have to do with Tom? Drew proved several times that he sucked...:wall::wall::wall::wall:

What the hell did Drew have to do with Tom? Drew proved several times that he sucked...:wall::wall::wall::wall:


Tom had the chance to sit back and learn instead of being thrown into the fire right away!
I'm pretty sure the only guy i've ever seen start as a rookie and play great was Dan Marino!

What the hell did Drew have to do with Tom? Drew proved several times that he sucked...:wall::wall::wall::wall:


you think that bledsoe didn't teach brady somethings along the way? Brady is one of the 5 best qb's ever and may be the top one when its over, but to say he didn't learn under bledsoe is a niave statement.

I think this year was the perfect example..Manning w/o his binky/safety blanket in Harrison being out most of the year struggled. Also down the stretch,the Colt's running game wasn't as productive as earlier in the year (take note all the Maroney haters out there who wondered why Maroney wasn't seeing time all year). Another words, when Manning isn't surrounded by a productive running game and all world receiver,he struggled. Brady's won three Super Bowls with the same exact type of team Manning had this season. We saw it in plain view during the Colts/Pats game in November..All the mediots were using the "But the Colts were injured" excuse for their..BS. Unless Manning or Brady are injured and out,neither team can use injuries as an excuse for a loss..And the only thing Brady learned from Bledsoe,is HOW NOT to play QB in the NFL..

I agree with 90% of that, but some of the reasons that the colts lost that game were miscues on the teams part, not necessarily manning. You rarely see the pat's make a miscue at all.

In a really tight bigtime game the colts will usually loose them, while the pat's will usually win them. the difference is BB and his team discipline.

You guys must hate beldsoe, but he was a very good quarterback and brady said that he taught him alot. Bledsoe carried your franchise for a number of years. I also remember Bledsoe playing with a broken finger on his right hand for several games just to get into the playoffs. If you had an offensive line or a running game bledsoe would have been better, that is not his fault. I remember bledsoe on his back a ton during his career especially with the pats. Didn't he also have a huge drive against the steelers when you almight brady hurt his ankle.

You guys really have very selective memories and love to bash ex-players. I would love to read what you say about your current patriots in 5 years or if they left the patriots.:yak5:

You guys really have very selective memories and love to bash ex-players. I would love to read what you say about your current patriots in 5 years or if they left the patriots.:yak5:[/QUOTE]


Go into the archives and read some of their comments about Randy Moss when he played for the Raiders !:bl2:
Some of them have also put down Adam Vinatieri since he's been a Colt!

You mean like holding on to the ball too long? Or forcing a pass that shouldn't be thrown?Or taking a long sack instead of getting rid of the ball?Or forcing it into coverage and geting a pick?Or not being able to make the hot read quick,getting happy feet,pinching a loaf and throwing it up for grabs? Which of those Bledsoe traits did he learn?Thankfully none...

What i remember about beldsoe was how he was the face of your franchise and took them from a 2 win season to a superbowl. Many times with so many passing attempts that it was not funny. I can't remember a QB who had to throw more than bledsoe! did he do all of those things you talk about, yes. Look at favre, he did all those things for the past few years. Wow you get favre a running game and some receivers and its the same brett favre.

How was he in that drive against pittsburg?

Are you saying that Brady learned nothing from Bledsoe. And if he would have had xy or z teaching him he would have been as good as he was a quickly???

You guys really have very selective memories and love to bash ex-players. I would love to read what you say about your current patriots in 5 years or if they left the patriots.:yak5:


Go into the archives and read some of their comments about Randy Moss when he played for the Raiders !:bl2:
Some of them have also put down Adam Vinatieri since he's been a Colt![/QUOTE]

I can tell how the memories here are. It's more about praising the current players and bashing ex-players or great players who are not on New England teams.

I am waiting for a thread on how overrated Troy Brown was.:rotflmao:

without Vinatieri you don't even have a dynasty. I still think one day letting Vinatieri will cost you big time, although your kicker now is very good as well.

You must have missed the pass the Drew threw RIGHT AT THE PITT'S LB he didn't even see.It bounced right off his chest and would have been a pick six had he caught it. If it wasn't for Mo Lewis,the Pats would have never won that first Super Bowl. NO WAY IN HELL that Bledsoe marches the Pats down the field in that drive that Brady did for the field goal..

selective memory my friend. Where was his O'Line???:poke:

So how would Brady have done if he had to start his rookie season ???
John Elway was one of the greatest ever, but he started in his rookie season and was pretty bad !

I think under Bledsoe, as SK said, Brady learned more about what "NOT" to do....than what to do! And yes....he was better off for having that opportunity in my opinion! I agree Ronnie!

Did Romo start his career in Dallas under Bledsoe???

I remember your precious brady needing a touchdown drive last year in Indianapolis and what happened, oh yea he found marlin Jackson but marlon was colt. OOOPS!!!

I don't remember brady ever leading a playoff comeback drive FOR A TOUCHDOWN when his team needed it. UI could be wrong but I don't remember it.

I remember your dynasty giving up a 21-3 halftime lead. That's a large lead to let go for a dynasty with the greatest coach ever. I remember NE being up with like 3 or 4 minutes left in that game and Brady couldn't keep the ball and you gave it back to the colts.

Maybe you forgot about that or maybe it was selective memory. Bledsoe was a good quarterback, try to think really really hard it will come back to you. he was also an excellent team player who always helped Brady and Brady always mentioned it and gave him thanks. Too bad the NE fans don't remember that.

This is up there with comparing jim rice to mickey mantle.:chatter

I think under Bledsoe, as SK said, Brady learned more about what "NOT" to do....than what to do! And yes....he was better off for having that opportunity in my opinion! I agree Ronnie!

Did Romo start his career in Dallas under Bledsoe???

Romo was there a year before bledsoe, but he did learn a lot under bledsoe. somethings you learn from others and something you have to learn on your own. Romo still gives credit to Bledsoe and visits him in the offseason to go over football. Romo has called bledsoe a mentor at times and ocassionally you will see Bledsoe at Cowboy games.

Who knows.How did Jamarcus Russell do??

he really didn't play this year. But he really doesn't have a great mentor over there. Brooks is no Bledsoe

Well......for the record.....I hated Bledsoe from the day he was drafted! Just never liked him! Yeah he had the physical attributes.....a shotgun arm.......big tall frame.....but he lacked the subtle things needed to be a winner! Marino did too! You can have all the passing yards and all the touchdowns....but if they don't happen when you need them to win.....what good are they? I agree Bledsoe was a great leader, team mate and team player.....but I cringed everytime he ever was on the field!

What does his O line have to do with making stupid decisions my friend???Funny..Brady took the same exact team,AND O LINE,to a Lombardi...I know it sucks that the Yankees and Cowboys are both done for the year,but please...

How many championships your teams have. When you get to my level lets compare. I am happy you are seeing some success, I honestly am, but the patriots are no cowboys franchise and the red sox compared to the yankees. :rotflmao:

Who knows.How did Jamarcus Russell do??

The Raider spoon fed Russell the whole season and let him play a bit the last few games to get some experience.
Had he been thrown into the fire early on he would have most likely thrown 30-40 ints just like most every high draft pick quarterback who started his rookie season!

Bye the way, I NEVER wanted (still don't) Russell !!!
I wanted to draft Adrien Peterson !

Now if that's not a bitter,pissed off Jersey guy,I don't know what is. And you must have just seen Bledose in the post season.Guess what guy??I saw him in pre,regular AND post season..From his first flipping start...Was he good? Sure.But guess what GUY?There's a lot of good QB's in the league. Good quarterback's aren't going to win you a Super Bowl. My memory is fine guy,so do yourself a favor and drop the selective memory thingy you like to put into all your posts here.

So if bledsoe was good, put him in a class of other "good quarterbacks" mr selective memory.

The Cowboys.....at no time in their history....ever dominated a decade as the Patriots have under Bill Belichik and owner Bob Kraft! And......they are not close to done yet!

I agree with most of what you say! I can't even wrap my head around my own question! To put it simply, as you say, with the weapons we have on the Pats right now......plug Manning into the Brady outlet.....what would happen....coaching aside?

I think first of all, of the time Manning might have in the pocket as Brady has had......what a benefit! Then I think of Randy Moss catching Manning, who I think is one of the best "long pass" tossers of all time! The guy can thread a needle from 60 yards away! Marvin Harrison is good but he is no Randy Moss! I think the thought of it is scary!


Sorry, this thread got a little off the question. for that i apologize. I think that Manning may have had as good a year as Brady, but it is very difficult to say because Brady's numbers are unmatched and just flat out crazy. IMO Manning and Brady differences are so small because they both do everything incredibly well.

Will do chief...

waiting chief

The Cowboys.....at no time in their history....ever dominated a decade as the Patriots have under Bill Belichik and owner Bob Kraft! And......they are not close to done yet!



The Cowboys also NEVER had a 30 year loosing history like the Pats !!!

I just think Brady is cooler under pressure....and that might be his greatest attribute.....other than the quick read and the way he moves in the pocket! His peripheral vision is amazing as the pocket begins to collapse he just moves forward and finds his receivers! Manning, quite frequently, shows his fear with his "happy feet" as he did in the Giants game the other day! The opposition sees this and they smell blood in the water!

The Cowboys also NEVER had a 30 year loosing history like the Pats !!!

Regardless Ronnie.....that was then and....this is now! And we are loving it!:wave:

So does anyone agree with my original comment that Brady has had the easier rd to travel in his career than Manning ???

The Cowboys.....at no time in their history....ever dominated a decade as the Patriots have under Bill Belichik and owner Bob Kraft! And......they are not close to done yet!

92-95 were not to bad years. yes they were a dynasty. It is tough to compare dynasty's from different decades, because the game changes and so does the speed, but the Patriots dynasty is definetly better than the cowboys for a few reasons.

When you win 5 superbowls, are the wealthiest sport franchise in the world and generate the most money for any team in the nfl then come talk to me about ownership

The Cowboys also NEVER had a 30 year loosing history like the Pats !!!

Ronnie,

That is a problem with ownership sometimes. if you can't win for 30 years the problem is with ownership's commitment to winning.

Regardless Ronnie.....that was then and....this is now! And we are loving it!:wave:


It still factors into the big picture.
Like calling Belichick the greatest coach ever when he had a 36-44 record coaching the Browns !

So does anyone agree with my original comment that Brady has had the easier rd to travel in his career than Manning ???


Ronnie,

i don't think he had it easier. I would say its very difficult to be on a team that could win a superbowl while you are learning. Different paths, but both difficult. more pressure not to loose on brady and more pressure to carry the franchise on manning.

either way i couldn't handle either.

Billy

I think you are right Ronnie...but he has the weight of the world on his shoulders now!

Wrikerjr.....I mean no disrespect to the Cowboys! I am a football fan and enjoyed watching them and all their success through the years! They had plenty of success! I just think the Patriots are doing things right now that have never been done and this, I think, is going to go on for at least 3-4 more years....if we are lucky! If they cap this season with a Superbowl victory.......they will sit at the top of the all-time heap in my opinion!

WOW

I'd rather argue with #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& :D:jester:



:hidin:

I think you are right Ronnie...but he has the weight of the world on his shoulders now!

Wrikerjr.....I mean no disrespect to the Cowboys! I am a football fan and enjoyed watching them and all their success through the years! They had plenty of success! I just think the Patriots are doing things right now that have never been done and this, I think, is going to go on for at least 3-4 more years....if we are lucky! If they cap this season with a Superbowl victory.......they will sit at the top of the all-time heap in my opinion!

Agreed with that 99%, keeping this up 3-4 years i would like to see that. Its very tough to dynasties together, but i wish you luck.

Ronnie,

That is a problem with ownership sometimes. if you can't win for 30 years the problem is with ownership's commitment to winning.




This sounds like Al Davis NOW !

are the wealthiest sport franchise in the world


The Cowboys Are NOT the wealthiest sport franchise in the World....I think Manchester United might have something to say about that......as well as the Yankees

and as far as putting Bledsoe in the company of other similar QB's I'd Say he's comparable to

Warren Moon
Jim Kelly
Dan Fouts

Gunslingers that really couldn't put together the Big win when they needed it.

Don't get me wrong, I like Bledsoe, the Pats wouldn't be where they are now without him. He was one of the reasons they've built themselves to where we are now. he filled the seats and generated huge income for the team. I also don't fault him for the Superbowl Loss....that one was Parcell's Fault :hee:

and also as far as Brady not being able to get a touchdown when they need one to win a game because he FINALLY through an INT to the colts last year is crazy talk.

The Guy had a 16-0 season and during that season he had last minute scoring drives (all TD's) against the Eagles, Ravens, and Giants.

Tom had the chance to sit back and learn instead of being thrown into the fire right away!
I'm pretty sure the only guy i've ever seen start as a rookie and play great was Dan Marino!

Dingdingdingding, DING!

And we have a winner! This debate is a good one and should be over before it starts; however, here's my take on it fellas.................

Manning is this generation's Marino.

Brady is this generation's Montana.

The only difference between Dan and Peyton is that Peyton has the one SB win that simply would not have happened had the refs climbed out of Polian's pocket in last year's AFC Title Game. And they almost gave it to them this year!!! Marino never could win the big one because of his lack of leadership characteristics under adverse conditions. If he ever got sacked, threw a coupla INT's (which were never HIS fault), or just plain threw the ball to the wrong place because he didn't want to get sacked he would have a major melt down. 'Ole Fidgety Feets', as I like to call the elder Manning, has that same pedigree and will always be an also-ran as long as #12 keeps suiting up for our beloved Pats. He will continue to post big numbers and pad huge stats into the Record Books ~like Marino did; but, he is not made of the same mettle as Mr Brady, athletic ability unquestioned!

The major similarity between Montana and Brady is, within the way that the student has become the master. Joe Montana himself admits that Tom Brady is better "in all facets of the game" than he was in his prime. Funny how the man that Brady patterned himself after, the QB that he wanted to most emulate, the reigning GOAT QB is all set to annoint his protege/his understudy/his shadow. Amazing how that transformation takes place, and that in so doing both men respect each other's place in history and both QB's remain humble and steadfast in placing their TEAM first.

And that is what separates Tom from Peyton.

Peyton gives lip service to the team concept and his insincerity is as blatant as his fake machinations at the line, the tossing up of his hands at blockers and receivers on and off the field, and his inability to get it done without Marvy and with various other injuries. I mean who does he really think he's foolin' with all that crap that he does at the line? Thank God he's come off of it a bit, recently.

Tom LIVES the team concept and this is realized in his winning of multiple Lombardi's with far less talent than the other guy, his inclusion of his O-Line in every single NFL Ad he's ever done, and by his coolness on the field. He knows that if he does his job to the best of his ability (which ain't too shabby by the way), and that if his teammates do thier jobs equally as well, then everybody's gonna be happy. This attitude also removes the weight of the whole team from off of his shoulders. He knows that the can count on his owner, his coach, his trainers, his line, his receiving corps, his own reads, his innate and learned abilities, but most of all he can count on his ability to lead under not so perfect conditions. When things go South, #12 is at his best and that type of intestinal fortitude translates to the whole team.

One more Lombardi ties him with Bradshaw.

The other #12,

the other TB, and

the other great QB of our time.

Although I gotta admit that Len Dawson was my first and longtime favorite QB, that is, until the next #16 showed in San Fran. Is there anyone else on this planet, besides The Blonde Bomber, that doubts Brady's greatness? Who among us thinks that Tom Brady is done after this season? Bradshaw is just waiting for Brady to equal his number of SB wins before he will agree with the rest of us. He is on record for saying that 19-0 will seal the deal from his viewpoint. The list of QB's that Brady has eclipsed is growing with each season and each successive Super Bowl Championship.

While both are very good and miles ahead of their closest competitors, it won't be long before Brady stands alone as the Greatest of All Time, and there are many fans/experts/former QB's who would say that that time is now!

I think under Bledsoe, as SK said, Brady learned more about what "NOT" to do....than what to do! And yes....he was better off for having that opportunity in my opinion! I agree Ronnie!

Did Romo start his career in Dallas under Bledsoe???
Great point Larry..:cheers:

This sounds like Al Davis NOW !

:usd::jester:

Kudos to you too, SK!
Well said, and quite true with the whole RCA Dome Bull Sheet!

Cain't WAIT for the Chahgahs to be exposed for the loud-mouthed,
trash talking, wannabe winners, left coast frauds that they are.

Perennial Pretenders, NOT
Real Contenders, iffin ya ask me.

The most fun this Sunday, for me, will be seeing the tick, tick, tick, tick.........BOOM :lossinit: :lossinit:!

That will be the certain implosion of Phillip Rivers and the explosion of San Diego's SB dreams. Sure hope Volek is taking tons of snaps, since Rivers has yet to take one this week. Likewise Turner better be just as ready to go, since Lilly Tuff is already thinking about saving his knee for next year :bc: :bc:.

You guys really have very selective memories and love to bash ex-players. I would love to read what you say about your current patriots in 5 years or if they left the patriots.:yak5:


Go into the archives and read some of their comments about Randy Moss when he played for the Raiders !:bl2:
Some of them have also put down Adam Vinatieri since he's been a Colt![/QUOTE]
Like this?
I think just having Moss on the field is huge, they will HAVE to cover even double cover him, frees up other options and the run game. I like it. You know if he starts his crap...Bill will bench him and I'm sure there will be a stipulation in his contract that he has to be a good boy.:usd:

Or this?
I'm hearing they want to deal him and a draft pick to the Pats. I wonder if Belichick can handle him, look what he did with Dillon.

Maybe you mean this one.
Donté Stallworth, Kelley Washington, Wes Welker and Randy Moss.
SuperBowl.:bounce: