Fishing saltwater in Massachusetts for free that is. Got the word today from a friend on the Envirinmental Police. Feds pushed hard and the desision has been made.

Another f#cking fee so you can enjpy nature...a saltwater fishing license will be in effect by this time next year for the 2009 season.:lossinit:

Bend over here it comes.

What's next? Bird watching licenses?:spin:

this sucks the big wazoo.

Good luck to the environmental police enforcing it !

There is strength in numbers.....protest?

Why would the feds be pushing state lic/fee anyway ?

But WHERE does the fee go? Does it go back to the states like the sportfishing excise tax or is it something that pays these bloated cows salaries in government?

i'd be interested in knowing how the $ will be used. what percentege to enforcement, actual science, admin costs etc... how much is it in other states. 40 or so for in-state, or is it going to be a federal liscence

This is old news guys.With the reauthorization of Magnuson-Stevens last year the feds stated that any coastal state without an angler registry in effect by 2009,would be forced to abide by a federal registry.There is no mandatory fee,but it's going to cost money to run it.We can gripe about it,but,it's being implemented to give us we wanted.Better numbers.We don't know how many recreational guys are fishing,or how many fish they catch.Therefore management has been based on estimates.We asked for this.

Yup old news...

NJ north to ME by 2009....

Read it here (http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:poj6jDZnMuwJ:www.onthewater.com/RegWatchArc/regwatch_4_07.doc+&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us)

" In Massachusetts, Division of Marine Fisheries director Paul Diodati is taking a wait-and-see approach. “Right now we have no plans to pursue a license or registry on our own,” said Diodati. “Our plan is to monitor what goes on with the federal government as far as implementing the registry.” Diodati expects more information on the national registry and requirements for state exemption will be defined at the State Directors Meeting, an annual meeting between state marine fishery directors and NOAA Fisheries officials to be held May 1-3 in San Diego, California. "

So the interesting thing here is what if Mass doesn't implement a state license but you fish RI or NH also....and the feds want the names etc for MASS. YOU'LL HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE FEDS ON ONE HAND AND THE OTHER STATES ALSO!

I can see alot of guys not fishing out of state anymore if the license doesn't cover different states. I fish Maine too and this means I got to buy THREE licenses now? RI, MA, Maine?

another way for the states to waste money.

More money for the hacks to line their pockets.

The license is coming and there is nothing going to stop it this time. I would think that the best thing to focus on is pushing for a reciprocal agreement between the Northeast states where they accept each others license. If not that than don't make non-residents pay more.

Where will all the money go, more than likely to hire more field officer to check licenses.

Idea: $1.25 for MA residents. $125 for Jersey, NY, and CT! :jump:

JK outastaters.... I love you too.

But this is total :bs: !

What are they going to do for us with that big cash windfall ?
Oh yeah hire more political hacks:mad:

:doh:,,,,,,,,,,,:rude:

Hope the money can go to our resources. Hopefully build better boat ramps and get more public access. Look at Florida, there boat ramps are beautiful. There license money goes to there resources.

Hope the money can go to our resources. Hopefully build better boat ramps and get more public access. Look at Florida, there boat ramps are beautiful. There license money goes to there resources.


And signs as well as pictures posted at them explaining how to properly use them. Way too many people are power loading and what have you. The best boat ramp I think I have ever been to is the canal one. Yes it cost money to use but at least you know your rear wheel tire isn't going to get stuck in a hole under water. Unfortunately..... I find it hard to believe that this money will stay in the department we want it to stay in. :wall:

how will this afect the commercial guys,we already have to buy a license.Now will need to buy another one?

God I sure hope not.... its already at like 90 bucks for a commercial bass license along with the rod and reel license. They just keep adding it all on there :( ...... and really, someone please tell me how they are going to enforce this one when they cant even enforce the 10.5" scup limit.... I wish the enviro police were able to but lets be realistic.

Anyone that was at the MSBA meeting this past Wednesday heard the position of the Ma DMF first hand....

See all you guys in Jail!! I will not pay!!

I will be in jail and sell all my stuff before I give thess F*&# people one more F%&$ penny!! I and all you already pay 1/3 rd your yearly income to taxes!

Taxes go up, fuel does up, Food Goes up, Oil gone up, the list keeps going!
The F(&%^ State has already took every penny from every fund to try to pay for the F%^&* Big Dig and other Shi*!!
Everything goes UPUPUPUPUPUP!!!!!!!!

NOT my Pay!!!!!!!!

See you in jail

if you cant beat em join em!

Got to find out about becoming a EPO...will make 200K per year with all of the OT and new budget money...have to become the EPO for the Vineyard or Nantucket :)

What about fishing in Fed waters?

if you cant beat em join em!

Got to find out about becoming a EPO...will make 200K per year with all of the OT and new budget money...have to become the EPO for the Vineyard or Nantucket :)

GOOD PLAN !!-

and you get to beat the $h&& out of boats and motor, start em up and drop the hammer, if you blow the motor, it's just filling out form to get a new one. (gov't funding is based on use it or lose it)

:wall: This really blows, more bacon for the gov't. :fury: Oh well, I agree with the f-em dept. :bs:

Im all for it. :huh:

Does that mean you will have to buy two licenses. One for salt, one for fresh?? That's BS!

nc has one and it is cheaper than buying bait or a plug. I understand some of the feelings about this, but maybe it will get used for the intended purpose?

but maybe it will get used for the intended purpose?

I think thats what is the main concern and the real reason why most are again'st this fee/charge etc., if everything went back into the fishery and or enforcement of the laws I believe most would be onboard here...

thats my position - if you can show me how it is gonna help the rec angler by putting the money into the fishery and not the politicians pockets than I am all for it

otherwise I will fish without a license and pay the fine if I get caught

How many of you guys would buy a Beachmaster on eBay for $50? ;)

Bet the license will cost less, and it'll last longer than the first bluefish that swims along.

Listening to you people complain about a lousy fee that'll run less than the cost of an inflated plug is almost comical.

I don't like it any more than you do, but it's inevitable. Big Brother calls the shots. The days when states could thumb their nose at Washington are over, and have been for 40 years. You either toe the line or lose billions in funding (remember how DC shoved the .08 OUI limit down the throat of every state, and the 55 mph speed limit back in the 70s). Suck it up. What most of you spend on fishing in a year could buy licenses for a whole Boy Scout troop.

I think it depends on where the money goes. If it goes back to marine recreational fishing needs and SUPPLEMENTS existing funds AND their is a local recreational body with guidance and oversight for spending the money, I'm for it. If the funds are just to pad the coffers I'm against...

Patrick, for those of use without the luxury of making the last meeting, how about an update.

Thanks,

John

What i learned about where the money goes when I read the freaking thing!!!
" The purpose of a national registry of saltwater anglers, according to Forbes Darby, National Recreational Fisheries Coordinator at NOAA, is not to create a new tax to squeeze money out of anglers. “The goal is to make it possible to collect the best data to best manage the fishery,” said Darby. Currently, NOAA’s Marine Recreational Fishery Statistics Survey (MRFSS) is the primary way scientists and managers count how many fish recreational fishermen are catching and keeping each year. The survey relies on randomly dialing households in coastal counties to track recreational fishermen, a highly inefficient process in which many anglers are missed and many non-angler households are phoned. By building a virtual phonebook of anglers, the registry would make counting fishermen and conducting a survey substantially more accurate and efficient."

Every other state that has this in effect has no problems with it... other then the occasional fine and confiscation of gear from those that choose to violate the rule in effect...

This doesn't mean that every area will require people to have a license...

I know from what i have read on-line that you don't need to buy a license when fishing on a head/charter boat... Also some piers have a "pier license" that allow you to fish off the pier without having a license...

Rates range from $12.50 to $21.00 for residents and $30.00-$90.00 for non-residents depending on the State...

From what i read the rates would change to $15/$30 once we reach 2009 when we go federal.. I believe Rhode Island will be the only state exempt from participating in the license on a Federal Level.

I fished VA last summer and needed a saltwater license. I was the only guy at the inlet with one. Everyone else chose to ignore it. The fishing was bad as well.

like everyone has said - where will the money go. Obviously 100% of the money wont go to fishing but what type of % are we talking about.

Also how will this be enforced. The freshwater license thing is a joke for the most part as I think i am the only person who ever has one.

what happens to the raised funds and who will enforce the rules???

What i learned about where the money goes when I read the freaking thing!!!

Every other state that has this in effect has no problems with it... other then the occasional fine and confiscation of gear from those that choose to violate the rule in effect...

That's right. People don't read the fine print or take the time to understand that this is a good opportunity, not a tax as the sensationalists claim.
Perhaps I'm too optimistic, but having the opportunity to implement a data gathering mechanism aids in formulating informed opinions and potentially objective management decisions. Right now that kind of stuff doesn't exist.
This thing isn't about enforcement; it’s about positioning for the future. No doubt there will be some fallout from this thing and some feathers will be ruffled, but my feeling is that it’s a good first step. Those that think the funding is going to put more green police on the beat so as to catch and prosecute the choggie poachers are missing the point. It’s a lot bigger than that.

Rates range from $30.00-$90.00 for non-residents depending on the State...

SUCKS big time. I have a Arizona fishing license and because i don't live next to the ocean and fish ONE week a year i pay more to do so? I don't believe in "nonresident" fees. I AM A CITIZEN AND RESIDENT OF THE USA. Just another "TAX" to line their coffers with. If any of it gets back to the fisheries after management / enforcement costs it wont be enough to do squat. What I pay in travel costs is bad enough. This doesn't sit well with me.:realmad::deadhorse:
ps where does it cost more to check which state you live in to implement a data gathering?

IMO if the gov. needs us to have a saltwater lic. , then it should be valid in all states just like a drivers license .

If they just need my name and phone number, then a simple stamp is all it should cost me.

the upshot of a recreational saltwater license is that we will be able to be identified and quantified as a political group.

by state.

the upshot of a recreational saltwater license is that we will be able to be identified and quantified as a political group.

by state.
and i am not particularly in favor of it...myself
===========================================
but when an EPO is called because you spot some people
filling buckets with undersized schoolies
their license (if they even have one )can be YANKED
and the fines should be increased....dramatically
not to mention their cars taken as well as all their gear

Ok, Here are some facts and opinions of the situation...

Fact...When the Magnuson Stevens Fisheries Reform Act was re-authorized by congress in '07 there was a great deal of discussion and even congressional hearings around the horrible data on all things related to Recreational Fishing. Included in the bill was a clause that requires all coastal states to have a "registry" of recreational anglers by 2009. The Feds will institute a "registry" for any state that does not do so on thier own.

Fact...The wording in the bill is not well written because politics is politics but "something" must be done to comply by 2009.

Fact...This afternoon "Monday 1/28 I spoke with a "senior official" with /MA DMF and there is currently no proposal on the table.

Opinion...The EPO referred to in the beginning of this thread was probably stating what has been running around for rumor and inuendo for over a year.

Fact...All East Coast States currently either have a Recreational Salt Water Liscense or a Bill filed to create one, except MA & Rhode Island.

Fact...All New England Coastal States have been meeting on this issue.

Opinon or Confirmed Unofficial Information...From all info I have gathered, the feeling amongst the New England States except Maine is that Salt Water Licenses should/will be reciprocal.

Fact...Besides Florida, Salt Water Anglers in States with a License are NOT RECEIVING THE POLITICAL BENEFITS/ATTENTION/CLOUT THAT SOME ARGUE WILL COME WHEN A STATE GETS A LICENSE. In a few States the license is still too new to tell.

that is all for now...

Listening to you people complain about a lousy fee that'll run less than the cost of an inflated plug is almost comical.



Last frontier Mike ... The foot is in the door ... Its not the money . Its the End of the World as we know it .. I hope the "fee" stops global warming .. I personaly don't care .. was quitting fishing and joining a bowling team anyway .. cool shirts ..

what if you fish multiple states?

in one season I fished NH, MA, RI, CT, NY, NJ (okay it was a party boat), DE, MD, VA, and NC.

not that would happen every year, but you can imagine the non-resident license fees piling up!

quote: Listening to you people complain about a lousy fee
that'll run less than the cost of an inflated plug is almost comical.

in essence i agree


on the other hand :

its a matter of principle....

and it's the same old story occurring
just in a different century

taxation without representation...

meaning a fee without guarantee of access to fish
or any other improvement to the fishery...

as all the richies don't want to see a fishermen

when they sip wine in the evening....:mad:

This may be our saving grace right here, a FISHING license! Since the guys who check up on you in the sweet water would be the same guys checking up on you in the salt (I am assuming?), make a dual license that covers both.

Does that mean you will have to buy two licenses. One for salt, one for fresh?? That's BS!

what if you fish multiple states?

in one season I fished NH, MA, RI, CT, NY, NJ (okay it was a party boat), DE, MD, VA, and NC.

not that would happen every year, but you can imagine the non-resident license fees piling up!
Last year I fished in Maine, NH, Mass, and RI
The year before I also fished in NY
I guess I will just pick some, NH will be the first to go.

Let's mot forget the incident a few years ago when the state tried to take the federal funds earmarked for the Mass Wildlife Dept.
I wouldn't be so skeptical if I knew that the lazy SOB's on capital hill wouldn't be trying to stick their filthy hands into those funds obtained from a saltwater license.

Let's face it, if the state EVER gets ahold of these funds, then I will stop buying ANY fishing license in this state. I didn't buy them to give to some no good worthless politician, who's only goal is to take your money and line his/her own pockets.
Remember, they closed how many of the state's fisheries(?), and lost how many game wardens(?) in the past 5-10 years.
Don't they now buy their stocking fish out of state?

Just so I'm clear, I would not be against a saltwater license, but I want to know EXACTLY where it goes and what it's for.

My first reaction is : i do not want or need no stinking license !
i do not wish to see any gov't agency be empowered to
confiscate a fishermans equipment . But reading that this is
a done deal, we should demand better access (open state parks to overnite fishing ) improve or build boat ramps and
piers etc.
If the state controls the license our state reps and senators should be targeted to hear an earful !

IMHO, there is NOOOOOO way there will be one federal license for multiple states. You think the southern states are going to give up the money they already get from state licenses? Forget that, you think the northeast states are going to pass up on all that money into the general fund?

It would suck for the shops (and the fishermen), but if fishermen really wanted to protest this, they'd get together and stay home for a year. The states would have to take notice.

I like your idea Bedford, but we have no leverage to demand anything. You have to be in a position of some kind of power to negotiate, and we aren't short of doing something extreme and unpleasant. Write your congressman all you want, but there's money involved here.

Basic Patrick wrote:

Fact...Besides Florida, Salt Water Anglers in States with a License are NOT RECEIVING THE POLITICAL BENEFITS/ATTENTION/CLOUT THAT SOME ARGUE WILL COME WHEN A STATE GETS A LICENSE.


Licensing recreational anglers will give us about as much clout with fishery management, as licensed drivers have with auto insurance management.

Licensing changes nothing in that regard.

Holy Sheet Batman....Mike....did we just agree....Oh my GOd :huh:Armegheddon must be at hand:bshake: :wave:


:pats:


Licensing recreational anglers will give us about as much clout with fishery management, as licensed drivers have with auto insurance management.

Licensing changes nothing in that regard.

Last frontier Mike ... The foot is in the door ... Its not the money . Its the End of the World as we know it .. I hope the "fee" stops global warming .. I personaly don't care .. was quitting fishing and joining a bowling team anyway .. cool shirts ..


M.M.M.M.M , Let's see, would the team be called "The Ditch Trolls Bowling League"?

Just found out too that I have to obtain a $135 Transportation Workers Identification Card, TWIC, (or something like that) because I hold a captains license and run charters in the summer.

Guess they want to make sure terrorists are not going undercover as charterboat captains, while they plot the demise of the US.....

A Tax by any other name is still the same:bs:

I keep going back and forth on this issue,
today I'm anti.
I can think of no instance where paying the government for permission to do something has gotten me more permission. Quite the contrary. Oversand Permits are my glaring example. The more we've paid over the years, the less access we've gotten. Before Race Point had permits we had total access 365 days a year. Dunes,shore and trails. Now what do we have? 4/15-11/15 minus part of June, all of July, and part of August. For 150 bucks. A license or a permit is used soley to raise the funds to deny you access to what you have already. Without the fees from permits, the government doesn't have the funds to remove the users. In short, by paying, we fund our own demise as sportsmen.
When the government does something for your own good, you can bet the farm that it ain't going to be good.

[QUOTE=Hooper;560145]Just found out too that I have to obtain a $135 Transportation Workers Identification Card, TWIC, (or something like that) because I hold a captains license and run charters in the summer.

Hooper,
You got some more info on that and where you found out?

your not running a ferry service from shore to shore....

what's next.... a plug license ??

because your transporting plugs
across the water back and forth

and they may have been built by
terrorist plug builder's :rotf3:

:think: come to think of it
there are some nefarious lookin plug guys
on this site.... hmmmm

i better call the homeland security office...
just in case...

as a few said, "Can't beat them join them"

Yep so with everything the gov says we should just lay down and take it in the A**

And that is just why we are getting all these rules!!

Everyone complains but no one does anything about it!

I use to go to all the meetings and you know how many people be there for rec. fishing??
A handful thats it!! we have 1 million fisherman and 25 show at a meeting?

And thats why we will be taxed to do something we love!! And this is the beginning!!
Because if you don't get up and fight now, you will contunie to get taxed more, less access, less fish, ect ect...
There are more complaining here on this board, then what show up at meetings!!

We ALL need to take a stand!!! ALL!! Don't leave it to the few!
If you just showed up at the meetings and not said anything would be better then doing nothing!!

So how do we organize to make sure the funds are directed in each state to the fishers and the fisheries?
FL has done a phenomenal job. The whole process of getting out and back in Sebastian Inlet is a breeze. I even have filet stations and wash downs hoses right there.

I'm starting to hear rumors that the states are talking to each other about this and, with big push from the feds, they are talking about making all of the licenses reciprocal for all of the states. Keep you fingers crossed!

Ok, Here are some facts and opinions of the situation...

Fact...When the Magnuson Stevens Fisheries Reform Act was re-authorized by congress in '07 there was a great deal of discussion and even congressional hearings around the horrible data on all things related to Recreational Fishing. Included in the bill was a clause that requires all coastal states to have a "registry" of recreational anglers by 2009. The Feds will institute a "registry" for any state that does not do so on thier own.

Fact...The wording in the bill is not well written because politics is politics but "something" must be done to comply by 2009.

Fact...This afternoon "Monday 1/28 I spoke with a "senior official" with /MA DMF and there is currently no proposal on the table.

Opinion...The EPO referred to in the beginning of this thread was probably stating what has been running around for rumor and inuendo for over a year.

Fact...All East Coast States currently either have a Recreational Salt Water Liscense or a Bill filed to create one, except MA & Rhode Island.

Fact...All New England Coastal States have been meeting on this issue.

Opinon or Confirmed Unofficial Information...From all info I have gathered, the feeling amongst the New England States except Maine is that Salt Water Licenses should/will be reciprocal.

Fact...Besides Florida, Salt Water Anglers in States with a License are NOT RECEIVING THE POLITICAL BENEFITS/ATTENTION/CLOUT THAT SOME ARGUE WILL COME WHEN A STATE GETS A LICENSE. In a few States the license is still too new to tell.

that is all for now...

Well we will see this guy is higher up than most. Justb remember this post come January 2009.

I keep going back and forth on this issue,
today I'm anti.
I can think of no instance where paying the government for permission to do something has gotten me more permission. Quite the contrary. Oversand Permits are my glaring example. The more we've paid over the years, the less access we've gotten. Before Race Point had permits we had total access 365 days a year. Dunes,shore and trails. Now what do we have? 4/15-11/15 minus part of June, all of July, and part of August. For 150 bucks. A license or a permit is used soley to raise the funds to deny you access to what you have already. Without the fees from permits, the government doesn't have the funds to remove the users. In short, by paying, we fund our own demise as sportsmen.
When the government does something for your own good, you can bet the farm that it ain't going to be good.

This has got to be the best thing I have read in a long time
Fred you hit the nail square on the head

Sad but true

Alot of States already have fees(license) for saltwater fishing!!!
$15 to $20 would be ok to me!!!
Money could be used to repair jetties along the coast!!!
Look at Plum Island and the mouth of the Merrimac River!!!

Here's a tidbit for you: Wanna know how the State F&W spends your inflated freshy license money? The change their pickup colors by a shade of green. That's right, the factory hunter green wasn't close enough so they get a complete repaint. Base coat /Clear coat.
This is a stone fact, I painted them myself. I expect them to be no more frugal with my salty license money. The number of trucks that I painted could have been equiptment, or officers, instead it was a shade of green.

Holy Sheet Batman....Mike....did we just agree....Oh my GOd :huh:Armegheddon must be at hand:bshake: :wave:


:pats:


Yup! :spin:

I think you and I often agree on the "what", where we often disagree is on the "how".

Here's a tidbit for you: Wanna know how the State F&W spends your inflated freshy license money? The change their pickup colors by a shade of green. That's right, the factory hunter green wasn't close enough so they get a complete repaint. Base coat /Clear coat.
This is a stone fact, I painted them myself. I expect them to be no more frugal with my salty license money. The number of trucks that I painted could have been equiptment, or officers, instead it was a shade of green.

thats totaly retarded

MPA's will be next. If you ask me though, and i know this will piss everyone off, MPA's are the only way to fix so many of our overfishing problems without favoring on euser group over another... the way the current system works of managing one link in a giant food chain is a joke.. They protect the dogfish which eats everything in site and then cant figure out why some stocks struggle to rebound.. close it all and let it fix its self. Its kind of like when 2 kids cant agree to share a toy. you simply take away the toy.

slightly off topic, but its coming.

Nebe what are MPA's?

Marine Protected Areas:
Generally closed to anything other than passive (swimming, bird/whale watching etc) activities. No fishing (Rec or Comm.) no hunting, etc...

This is the response from my representative to my concerns regarding saltwater fishing licenses. It seems quite different from the talk on the street. I guess I don't have to sell my stuff for a few years.:eyes:

"Thank you for contacting me with your concerns about saltwater fishing licenses under the Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Reauthorization Act of 2006. I appreciate your feedback on this issue.



The Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Reauthorization Act was passed in 2006 by the previous Congress and signed into law by President Bush on January 12, 2007. It seeks to curb overfishing through annual catch limits and other improved accountability measures. It also establishes a "federal angler registry," essentially creating a national license for saltwater fishing that will take effect in January of 2009. The legislation prohibits charging anglers a fee for such a license until 2011. I will certainly keep your thoughts in mind regarding the affordability of such permits after 2011 and will carefully consider any actions Congress can take to ensure Vermonters' access to saltwater fishing."

How many of you guys would buy a Beachmaster on eBay for $50? ;)

Bet the license will cost less, and it'll last longer than the first bluefish that swims along.

Listening to you people complain about a lousy fee that'll run less than the cost of an inflated plug is almost comical.

I don't like it any more than you do, but it's inevitable. Big Brother calls the shots. The days when states could thumb their nose at Washington are over, and have been for 40 years. You either toe the line or lose billions in funding (remember how DC shoved the .08 OUI limit down the throat of every state, and the 55 mph speed limit back in the 70s). Suck it up. What most of you spend on fishing in a year could buy licenses for a whole Boy Scout troop.

Very well said :claps:

-spence