the news announcers are saying that the stimulus package is going to be
some kind of rescue for all these Americans loosing their homes


they have to be on drugs to believe that ...let alone be saying it....

it's complete :bs: plain and simple :hs:

It might provide a teeny bit of help, but there's a lot of feel good in there as well.

I do agree that the problem is big enough that the Government needs to take some action, although I'm not smart enough on the subject to say exactly what that action shoud be.

I just home the aid goes to those who really need it. There was a lot of mortgage fraud in the past 6 years, and a lot of people borrowing in a very irresponsible manner who should have to own their own problems.

-spence

From what I saw on 60 minutes the other night it seems the "lenders" are more at fault than the borrowers! They were giving loans away and not checking financials......just making the deal, making the money and letting the chips fall where they may! Well fall they are!

The lenders are to blame,,, They were the predators who came up with the loans and sold people on them.... Most don't know much about a mortgages since they rarely go through the process and all they wanted was a big house they were TOLD they could afford.

Now,,, I won't feel bad if one of those Vacation homes on the water goes into foreclosure,,, So lets find one and do some fishing,,,,

Read an article in the paper about a company that investors use to check loans for fraud, etc. They normally reviewed about 20% of all loans. The company started reporting that the quality of the loans was starting to deteriorate about 2 years ago yet they were ignored.

its both the lenders and borrowers fault.

YES the lender should be more thorough in their approval processes but ultimately it falls on the borrower to know what your limits are. We just went through the process about 8 months ago. We were approved for probably 40% more than what we could afford. BUT being the responsible, and nervous first time home buyers, we said that was insane and borrowed what was managable.

I don't understand why people bite off more than they can chew in this situation. Sure there are the lost my job stories but that can't account for 97% of it. I blame uneducated people buying property.

MrHunters....obiously you did not see 60 Minutes? I agree that many times its a case of default on the borrowers part for one reason or another.......but if you saw this 60 Minutes episode you would see what I saw.

BF, I agree with you that the lenders are just throwing money at people, and if they are not checking financials then stupid them....BUT shouldnt you know as an individual or couple how much you make and what you can afford no matter what the bank says?

Too good to be true applies EVERY time in getting a home loan.

Again I refer you to the 60 Minutes episode....I do not have time to hit all the highlites but it was quite telling.

Lenders were simply approving mortgages for any and all comers without so much as checking social security numbers......most of the mortgages were varible rate mortgages and what happened was after a period of time the rates ballooned and many times the mortagages doubled and the borrowers were screwed! Yes the borrowers admitted their negligence but it was the lenders who were most careless in this scenario as they make their money on how many mortgages they sold......they would sell them and the bank that held them would in turn sell them to another mortgage house and so on and so on.....everyone was making money on it without regard for the consequences........so here we are!

It is the job of the lenders to check backgrounds and financials on the potential buyers and they were not doing it!

my mortgage has been sold 3 times in 8 months... pretty crazy.

I see your point Larry but I still say we are responsible for our own actions. Why can I, harry home buyer, find enough info around, talk to enough people, take a first time home buyers class, to feel ok about the loan I chose and the next guy blindly walks in and takes out 500K when they know they can't afford it?

Kind of makes you wonder....doesn't it????

maybe id feel different if i saw 60 minutes.

The lenders are to blame,,, They were the predators who came up with the loans and sold people on them.... Most don't know much about a mortgages since they rarely go through the process and all they wanted was a big house they were TOLD they could afford.

Now,,, I won't feel bad if one of those Vacation homes on the water goes into foreclosure,,, So lets find one and do some fishing,,,,


I believe a lot of people were convinced they could afford something more. I had several people try that when I was looking in the eighties with low rate with a balloon after 5 years. I didn't do it.

I did refinance in 91 to a 15 year 4.125 2 point mortgage. I am good.

Its very difficult blaming the borrower when they looked at it like it was thier only chance ever at having a home of thier own.

The frieking lenders are predators though. Borrowers were fish in a bathtub to them. Phonying up down payments, getting people to go to city hall and pay a fee to register a non-existent in-home business. Lenders will not end up in jail and I think they should.

When the lenders do something so egregious that it throws the whole country into a slide then they should PAY.

Its very difficult blaming the borrower when they looked at it like it was thier only chance ever at having a home of thier own.

when the lenders do something so egregious that it throws the whole country into a slide then they should PAY.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
if not pay they should have to offer refinancing thats within the borrower's budget...
.........
and in my case the mortgage broker said don't worry we'll get you refinanced in a few months :rolleyes: at a much more affordable rate...

yeah right....

then it got changed to five months, then 6 , and now there's talk of even another rate decrease besides the 3/4 that just got slashed and it still doesn't seem any easier to find refinancing as the economy
just gets worse and worse.... :realmad: by the day

i am so disgusted with this whole
friggan process...it's beyond words...

unfortunately, it became difficult for new borrowers to re-fi due to the falling real estate market. The bank will not finance 100% of the value of the home in a normal mortgage.

so when you financed $240 for your $300K home, which now assesses at $250, you are screwed and can't refinance if you owe a penny more than $200.

is this what is happening to you, Raven?

unfortunately, it became difficult for new borrowers to re-fi due to the falling real estate market. The bank will not finance 100% of the value of the home in a normal mortgage.

so when you financed $240 for your $300K home, which now assesses at $250, you are screwed and can't refinance if you owe a penny more than $200.

is this what is happening to you, Raven?


different numbers but essentially ........ yes

i'm sooooo close to making this farm run like a cheetah
and if things don't get better soon i'll loose my only opportunity.

if that were to happen.... my life would just end
because it'll surely kill me.....DEAD same as a bullet would. :hs:

I'd think you'd have some leverage if you were doing the re-fi with the same bank and you had a good payment history. It's in their interest to keep your interest payments going! Banks don't want to own houses...

-spence

different numbers but essentially ........ yes

i'm sooooo close to making this farm run like a cheetah
and if things don't get better soon i'll loose my only opportunity.

if that were to happen.... my life would just end
because it'll surely kill me.....DEAD same as a bullet would. :hs:

woh man... take it easy... nothing is that bad. just have a few:cheers2: :smokin::smokin::smokin: :wave:

problem with re fi is the closing costs again. 6 to 10K bleh

what i meant was loosing this place now
just before i got my chance to farm it after waiting my whole life

would rip my soul right out of me...

to the point i'd be so destroyed i'd be just a ghost

of my former self....and probably

turn white haired in a month

then i'd have a coronary.

and very true Spence ...................

since the nest EGG has already been spent
on the closing costs to get it.

re: the bank doesnt want to own it....
especially not this place! because of the condition it's in
which is gonna take this imaginative Scottish
ever so determined, bad ass carpenter 20 years
to whip it into shape....

Again I refer you to the 60 Minutes episode....I do not have time to hit all the highlites but it was quite telling.

Lenders were simply approving mortgages for any and all comers without so much as checking social security numbers......most of the mortgages were varible rate mortgages and what happened was after a period of time the rates ballooned and many times the mortagages doubled and the borrowers were screwed! Yes the borrowers admitted their negligence but it was the lenders who were most careless in this scenario as they make their money on how many mortgages they sold......they would sell them and the bank that held them would in turn sell them to another mortgage house and so on and so on.....everyone was making money on it without regard for the consequences........so here we are!

It is the job of the lenders to check backgrounds and financials on the potential buyers and they were not doing it!

And a huge percentage of the borrowers defaulting are in this country illegally. So if the lenders took the time to do a simple credit/background check, they never should have qualified for that mortgage to begin with. Never would have happened a few years ago, but as already stated, the lenders are such a greedy predator type, they'll let anyone borrow.

And a huge percentage of the borrowers defaulting are in this country illegally.
Really? Everything I've ever seen indicates just the opposite :huh:

-spence

:faga: If you say so.

All of what said is true ;;
lenders not paying attention // buyers / not knowing what they were getting into >>>>>>>>> but the fraud ..was/is the killer ..

they had/have >.mortgage brokers/ apprasiers & agents that were using different so.called buyers with 100% mortgages selling properties at 2 to 2.5 times what they were worth >>> money going back to the so called buyer .. thet never made a payment . just the 150000 K cash & screwed ;;

there are 966 multi families for sale in Providence right this minute / most are in the battle zone / majority are stripped / 95 % are fireclosures ... ya spend 1/2 ya day checking these properties for squatters ;;
Sell >> ya I,ve got a couple pending ;

2 family >. 56K
2 3 families 70K each

&&&& the list goes on ;;

but there are some deals & good ones mixed in ;;

Ocean front / the guy paid 1,200000 in june of 2006 >. stayed there without making a payment .. until the end of sept >.. then leased it >.
never made a payment / had a nice summer vacation & then was getting 2222 per month for a winter rental ;;

I have a nother .. nice /r/R / colonial .built in 2006 >> buyer paid 300k .. I,ve got it listed for 235K

I have a log house coming in >. no price yet >> house ,poo, cabana , two shed , 2/garage with a full game room on top >. pool table / bar/ etc .. plus acre,s ;;

had one poor kid that had a 1005 loan .. a 80 & a 20 >>> his girl left him & he couldn,t make the payments ..so he B/B,s to make the 80% payment & fell behind on the 20 % ;;
The 20% lender foreclosed on him >> F #$%^&* kid had no clue >::realmad:

&&&&&&&&&&& there is alot more ><><><:err:

those 80 20's are scary deals.

they had/have >.mortgage brokers/ apprasiers & agents that were using different so.called buyers with 100% mortgages selling properties at 2 to 2.5 times what they were worth >>> money going back to the so called buyer .. thet never made a payment . just the 150000 K cash & screwed
The owner of the house next to my mother in law (Ft. Lauderdale) was indicted for doing this. They had made 10+Million working a racket with some other people in the business.

-spence

it totally justifies what i said origionally

that these news people on TV thinking and or saying

that this refund is gonna bail everyone out is

pure bullsheet :shocked: it's outragious!!!!!

This is actually really interesting being able to view a cross section of people and see their comments and view their take on the current mortgage situation. It appears the general sentiment is that the fault lies with the mortgage companies, and the borrower gets a pass.

What do you guys think about this?

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/15140985/detail.html?subid=10101561

Who is to blame here?

Seems like an isolated case where the buyer was really stupid. Although, it may help to know how any state laws might apply in this situation as I believe they do vary...

But if the seller did knowingly lead them into believing they house was worth 5X what they paid, I'd think there could be room for some potential fraud, even if the buyer was a dope.

Difficult to tell not knowing the entire situation or being a legal expert :hee:

-spence

the news announcers are saying that the stimulus package is going to be
some kind of rescue for all these Americans loosing their homes


they have to be on drugs to believe that ...let alone be saying it....

it's complete :bs: plain and simple :hs:

Also, not that it will change the sentiment of the thread, but foreclosures are up 79% not 97%.:rollem:

I had a comptroller for a major string of auto dealerships tell me once that a salesman hasn't done his job if he didn't get every dime that a buyer had for an auto for the term of the payment. Sounds like the infection has spread to housing. Predatory lenders thinging everyone is a sucker to be played. There's a lot of hard working folks out there who have watched their "American Dream" die a horrible death. It'll never come true now. Because their lenders did not have the moral fiber to explain what a sub-prime was. Not to mention an economy tanking like Red October. Sure there's some money out there, They just printed us a tax refund. It's sad.

had one poor kid that had a 1005 loan .. a 80 & a 20 >>> his girl left him & he couldn't make the payments ..

In the 60's you could only get a mortgage based on 1 household member's salary. Protected the bank and the mortgagee.

Rule of thumb was you could only afford spending 25% of your salary on the mortgage.

Then when most women entered the workforce they opened it to 2 salaries, which is great, till times get tough and 1 looses a job or gets sick. (

Also, not that it will change the sentiment of the thread, but foreclosures are up 79% not 97%.:rollem:


they are up 97% since December 2006

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c66/ravenob1/forclosures.jpg

B/J

your right ;;
some buyers got f $%^&* but others were stupid >>>>>>>>>>>>> but it didn,t stop there // I heard the bankrupsy court is overflowing every single day >>. a descent amount of realtors /But a ton of mortgage originators / who also ready making a killing on the 80-30>. 70 -30 ,s had to know it wasn,t gonna last .. but they spent like it was >>>>>>> now SOL & out of work ;;
the buyers / on the subprime loans / mostly had fescent jobs / little money & fair credit at best >>>>> they were lead to believe that in a year to 18 months they would be able to refi >>>>>>>>>>>>> never happened ;
then ya got the buyers that had good credit & jobs & a little money >>. bUt with the market being hot &//& values increasing they didn,t want to settle [even }with the interest rate being approx 5.68 >.they took 3 & 5 years arms @ a 4= interest rate >>>>>>>>> now its time to lock in & they can,t make the lockin in payment // arms are great if you only plan on stayin a couple of years or your company will cover your ass when you relocate ;;
then you have the buyers that bought 2000 - 2003 .. that still wanted the house & all the toys >>>> so they just kepy refi ing ;;
Just this past year I had to turn down at least a dozen clients that asked me to sell their homes ;;
before I even did comps >.I,d check on what they paid .. see if they both had new SUv,s & I knew I couldn,t help them >>> they were upside down in the value of their homes >>> In otherwords ...they took the equity & didn,t put it back into their property // now its worth // alot less than what they owe // so they can,t refi ;;

it was/is a combination of many factors & people & it is truly a Cluster f #$%^&* &&&& its far from over ;;

If you have access hard cash >>. take it out of the stock market or notes & buy properties right >>> && when this does turn around / those that are doing that were wealthy before // will become alot more than wealthy :buds:

B/J

your right ;;
some buyers got f $%^&* but others were stupid >>>>>>>>>>>>> but it didn,t stop there // I heard the bankrupsy court is overflowing every single day >>. a descent amount of realtors /But a ton of mortgage originators / who also ready making a killing on the 80-30>. 70 -30 ,s had to know it wasn,t gonna last .. but they spent like it was >>>>>>> now SOL & out of work ;;
the buyers / on the subprime loans / mostly had fescent jobs / little money & fair credit at best >>>>> they were lead to believe that in a year to 18 months they would be able to refi >>>>>>>>>>>>> never happened ;
then ya got the buyers that had good credit & jobs & a little money >>. bUt with the market being hot &//& values increasing they didn,t want to settle [even }with the interest rate being approx 5.68 >.they took 3 & 5 years arms @ a 4= interest rate >>>>>>>>> now its time to lock in & they can,t make the lockin in payment // arms are great if you only plan on stayin a couple of years or your company will cover your ass when you relocate ;;
then you have the buyers that bought 2000 - 2003 .. that still wanted the house & all the toys >>>> so they just kepy refi ing ;;
Just this past year I had to turn down at least a dozen clients that asked me to sell their homes ;;
before I even did comps >.I,d check on what they paid .. see if they both had new SUv,s & I knew I couldn,t help them >>> they were upside down in the value of their homes >>> In otherwords ...they took the equity & didn,t put it back into their property // now its worth // alot less than what they owe // so they can,t refi ;;

it was/is a combination of many factors & people & it is truly a Cluster f #$%^&* &&&& its far from over ;;

If you have access hard cash >>. take it out of the stock market or notes & buy properties right >>> && when this does turn around / those that are doing that were wealthy before // will become alot more than wealthy :buds:


I agree clammer. Cash is king right now. There will be some incredible opportunities out there for level headed investors who have kept their powder dry. I work with a lot of investors who have been on the sidelines for 2 years and they are all warming up in the bull pen. :smokin:

Some of these buyers were in it for the quick buck!!!
Buy it now at an adjustible rate(4percent interest) for 5 years!!!
Sell out at end and make 200,000 grand due to rising real estate market!!!
When market burst, so did their investment bubble!!!

Well I agree with some and disagree with others.....I am not what you call "good with my money" by ANY means and have my fair share of debt but we bought a house 4 years ago and I have to say were were SHOCKED when we were told what we were approved for.....it was well over twice we we agreed we could afford. There are a lot of people out there trying to keep up with the Jones's that would have gone for it....and I am sure they did and are now being foreclosed on. I am glad we didnt fall for it because thats exactly where we would be right now if we bought all the house the bank said we could afford.......

Should the lenders be to blame or the individuals for not taking responsibility for their own spending?

I am a real estate broker and witnessed first hand how the mortgage crisis developed. The market price for housing was rising at a steady 20% clip from 2001-2005. The subprime lenders were coming up with programs to allow everyone and anyone to buy a home. There were two common scenarios first there were homebuyers with little or no down payment. They would typically get this 20/80 loans the idea there was to avoid PMI insurance, with a cheaper alternative and at the time PMI could not be deducted from you taxes as could the interest from each end of the 20/80 loan. The 80% loan was very close to the going rate at the time and the 20% loan was a few 3-5 points higher. The idea was to get into the home wait until the value rose enough for you to have 20% equity and then refi into a 30 yr fixed at a lower rate. There are two major flaws with this plan. First most of the 80% loans were variable rate locked for 3 years, second the home values did not increase as thought but actually decreased in value. So this has lead us to the current crisis were the loans have adjusted to higher rates and there is not enough equity in the home to refi out of the loan and into a better rate.

The other scenario was the folks were taking interest only loans so they could afford a larger or better house. The idea was to have low payments and then as you earned more money or got you financial house on order you could do a refi and be okay. Also folks brought property this way with the intent to flip the house after a year or two and make big bucks. Again the got caught in a declining market and can not refi into a better loan because they have no equity in their home.

I also heard about shady mortgage brokers and raw deals for uneducated buyers and in 2004 pulled my buyer out if a closing upon reviewing the HUD and noticing that the interest rate was 1 point higher and the closing costs were 50% higher than what was promised.

So where does this leave the folks in trouble. You have a few options. The first of which should be to call your bank and tell them you need to redo your loan. The banks will do, this I have helped folks so far with CITI Mortgage and Washington Mutual. The next choice would be a short sale.. that is a bank approved sale for less than whats owed the bank. I have done 6 of these since October. They are doable if your property and yourself hit the right criteria. Third you can let the place go into foreclosure, this is a tough decision as the banks will bury your credit rating. However if you were treated unfairly or there is any issue with your loan documents or with the HUD you have state agencies in MASS and RI that will get involved and help you get things straightened out.

If you or anyone you know needs some help with this PM me and I can point you in the right direction. Also Clammer is very experienced as well. Don't let the bastards get you down they act like they are holding all the cards.. trust me they aren't.

pm sent

Interesting thread... I work for the largest FCL law firm in CT. I have been here for just over 4 years now and have seen things from many different sides. Just after I started working , we had to cut back a LOT of employees because there just wasn't enough business. On a "good" week, we would get 50 referals (new foreclosure actions). Now, on a very slow day, we have over 100 referals. We cut back to about 50 employees and a handful of attorneys in the slow days, to now having over 150 employees, 20+ attorneys, and we are still growing. While the topic of the day is the rising foreclosure rate and shows like 20/20 and 60 minutes want to jump all over the lenders for screwing things up, they are not completely to blame. Lenders gave too much money to people that shouldn't get it AND people took advantage of this and took out loans that were too big AND the mortgage brokers taking advantage of this scenario. I had one FCL over this past summer. The debtor had an odd last name, so it stuck with me. On Saturday of his auction, I happened to be reading the local paper. There was a cover story about this guy and his situation. His mortgage broker fudged his loan applications to make it look like he was making more money than he was, deposited something like $10K of her own money into his account, then pulled it after the closing. He was making something like $1200 a month at the casino, and he had a $2500+ per month mortgage. Yeah, that didn't last long. Who is to blame there????

Then you have the dirtbags that took out these loans a couple years back on a bunch of multi-family homes, collected rent from the tenants, and never paid a dime back to the bank. There are ways to drag out a foreclosure action for years and years. All this time you keep collecting rent, not paying the mortgage, and getting rich. Sure, your credit is pretty much screwed for life, but you now have a giant pile of cash sitting in your bank account. I have seen this So many times that it is sickening. There is actually a guy in the SW part of Ct that has over 100 loans in FCL. He went around a few years back buying properties below value from mentally disabled people that were falling into financial trouble. He basically bought the property at a lowere than market price to bail them out, jacked up their rent which, evicted them, then brought in new tenants and kept all of their rent. He has a great scheme going because he is so experienced in what banks will take for a short sale just to recoup something. I Googled his name one day just to see what I could find. It was all I could do not to speak my mind to him when he and I spoke a short time later.

The stage of the FCL that I handle involves the actual auctioning off of your home. I deal with people at the end of the line and have heard and seen just about everything. We even had a guy compeltely level his home to stop the foreclosure. He took out demo permits with the town, hired a demo crew, and left a parking lot in place of the house. Funny thing, it worked for a while. The bank eventually settled with him by accepting a short sale just so they could recover something. Some days I think about writing a book on how to prolong the foreclosure process....

Tlapinske wrote: Some days I think about writing a book on how to prolong the foreclosure process....


talk about SCAMS !!x 10

if nothing else you should be interviewed on TV

PM sent