Plugs or live bait? Explain why please and no pissing, moaning or derogatory and blatant inflamatory bs, just legitimate theory as to what and why a live bait would give you a better shot than a plug or vice versa. No luck, fate or otherwise either just answer the basic question.

We all know where I stand, let's hear your reasoning

:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:

Nope, no way...not even going to get into to this one..its a hornets nest if there ever was one...Just going to sit back and read the responces...Let me go get some popcorn first:bsod:

I’ll use statistics instead of theory.
First off, I used to fish plugs exclusively for quite a few years. The reason was when I started out fishing, I usually had just enough money in my pocket to gas up the truck and make it to and from the beach. I had two plugs I fished with, one was a green 7” super strike needlefish, and the other was a jointed 7” black bomber. To this day I feel as though you could get by with just those two plugs in your bag, save for a couple jigs. I’ve landed hundreds and hundreds of fish on those two plugs, but the largest fish I’ve taken is about 35# on the bomber. Not a bad fish, but no monster. The average plug size fish for me is probably about 8-12#.
Let’s consider eels and other free swimming baits from the standpoint of my own trend line. The average fish I typically catch on eels are about 16- 25#. This includes both the boat and surf fish I’ve caught. There should be no surprise at the divergence in sizes from bait caught to plug caught. Remember these are averages, but my eel caught fish average roughly twice the size of the plug fish I’ve taken. I would imagine it’s the same for most anyone who has done a lot of both. At times artificials will out do the baits, but look at your successes over the long term and it’s really an easy choice if you are looking to position yourself to catch the larger fish.
That’s why I rarely carry plugs, BECAUSE.....

they're for schoolies.....:fishin:

:deadhorse::deadhorse::deadhorse:

Nope, no way...not even going to get into to this one..its a hornets nest if there ever was one...Just going to sit back and read the responces...Let me go get some popcorn first:bsod:

I have your back....:lama:

At times artificials will out do the baits, but look at your successes over the long term and it’s really an easy choice if you are looking to position yourself to catch the larger fish. That’s why I rarely carry plugs.

My sentiments exactly.

I think if you know how to present live bait properly there is no comparison. Fish the same spot next to a lure guy and you will frustrate him very quickly.Try to make a lure swim,wiggle and smell like live bait without a retrieve and you run into problems.The number of fish I have caught over 35# with plugs is VERY small compared to fishing with the bass' natural prey.

Flap,we know where you stand, but according to the title of this thread you should explain why you think YOU stand a better chance at a fifty with plugs. Enlighten the masses.

Ask any scalper, plugs are much better for getting 50's than bait, which has no value on ebay as far as I can tell.

Mike; I'd agree with those stats as far as average sizes; I look at the number of decent (20+lb) fish caught vs. number of nights; way higher with eels.
As far as plugs; I agree w/ not carrying many that often, but mainly because I share your hatred (fear) of treble hooks at night!

My mindset is twofold Steve.

1. I think eels (or other live; scup, herring, pogies) are about as close to being 100% as you can be for getting a hit, if a hungry fish is in the area. Sometimes they don't work, but properly presented, they usually do BECAUSE they are live bait. Plugs need more presentation, finesse, and just general will of the fish to eat it than live bait...

2. I also fervently believe that live baits tend to cull out larger fish...
maybe because of size, or wariness of bigger fish, who knows, but many nights at outflows I have drifted eels among the crowd of pluggers and consistently pulled larger fish.

There are conditions I prefer wood/plastic. some outflows in a storm fish better with a darter or large swimmer. I think eels just can't be presented correctly in those conditions. but as someone who is after larger fish at the expense of numbers, I'll fish eels (live or rigged) 75% or more of the time..

Livelining pogies, preferably the same size, 8-10", as last year! Separates the nice fish from the cows.

Livelining pogies, preferably the same size, 8-10", as last year! Separates the nice fish from the cows.

that it does... though i can attest for catching my largest on a plastic, i know the truth that live fresh real bait will by far in the long run catch the larger cows. juveniles are kinda dumb when their young and will munch on anything that floats by them..... the 15 year-olds and up have a lotttttt more wisdom and it is much easier to entice them with a well presented bait than an artificial lure.

Live fish bait. I think a big live swimming fish gets the big gals even better than eels. Now since its hard to cast and retrieve a pogie , eels are a good live bait but good size live swimming fish is best for big fish IMO

If I was born first I would be 50 , alas I was second hence Im not 50 for 2 more years .

Mass state record--held 3 ways--73 pounds. At least two came on lures. What Church was using is unclear, but Cinto's was on a plug and Stetzko's was on a teaser. Stetzko's fish passed up a live eel to hit the teaser. Go figure :huh:

World record--Rebel Windcheater.

The you have Rochetta's 76 on an eel, and Franco's 75 on a pogie head.

Latest 70+ came on a trolled plug down in Virginia.

But if you put a gun to my head? Bait shades the odds in your favor.

I have to say live bait .. The goal of fishing a lure is to imitate live bait . I have seen some more skilled than me at getting certain lures to imitate live bait . The ultimate is to be so good with plugs you can skip all the hassle of live bait ,, transporting and keeping it alive . Not throwing logs on fires . I think there's a boat man, surf man point of view also .. Surfman is always thinking about being mobile ,,, travel lite as possible .. Some just take pride in there skills to catch on plugs .. good question.. raises another question ... The 3 record 73lb. fish in Mass .. caught on what ? 1. goo goo eyes 2. a teaser ,, forgot .. what was the 3 rd ? :pats:

I think if you know how to present live bait properly there is no comparison. Fish the same spot next to a lure guy and you will frustrate him very quickly.Try to make a lure swim,wiggle and smell like live bait without a retrieve and you run into problems.The number of fish I have caught over 35# with plugs is VERY small compared to fishing with the bass' natural prey.

Flap,we know where you stand, but according to the title of this thread you should explain why you think YOU stand a better chance at a fifty with plugs. Enlighten the masses.

SD, it's an easy answer. I don't think plugs give you a better shot and never will. Hands down live bait will take the bigger fish time after time. I have an addiction to plugs though ( you have all seen pics of my basement) But I believe in my heart of hearts (yes I do have one) that live bait is more of an insurance against failure. If you want to talk about staying positive throughout the fishing experience you better have it in multitudes when fishing plugs especially on the Cape these days.

I watched and listened to the live herring soakers in the canal proclaim themselves to be the sharpest of the sharpies when it came to catching bass there. While I cast away with my Polaris and Pencils. Legends were born and self promoted. Then came the herring ban. Where are most of them now? Relegated to obscurity and consoling each other on good they were while eating breakfast together at a Buzzards Bay eatery each weekend.

My personal preference is holding my chances back, way back. But it's a goal I continue to try to attain. I keep hoping to repeat the days of Monomoy when we landed there and cast rebels to fish breaking in the dark that sounded like someone ch#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g boulders. Where the magic happened. To watching the sun rise on the 14 fish I took that night laying on the sand next to the skiff with the smallest weighing 38 pounds and the largest in the high 40's. All on plugs.

Someday maybe just maybe it will happen again.

My preference would be to use plugs as my largest fish have all fallen to plugs. Using them is my favorite method by far.

As for the question of which method would give you a BETTER CHANCE at landing the 50?

Assuming everything is equal, you’re on a beach, and the bass in question are willingly taking both artificials and eels - I’d have to say eels and my reason is this – single hook versus treble. You have a much better shot at landing a huge fish with a single hook be it attached to an eel or plug. Big bass have the uncanny ability to play treble hooks against each other gain leverage and straighten them causing a lost hookup. Not many plugs come with a single hook (with the exception of the original stubby needles which was originally designed with a single hook for the exactly this reason – to land more bass). Large bass hookup-to-land ratio is much better with a single hook.

DZ

Choice was live bait or plugs ... My personal experience at one time ,would be a big bloody fresh chunk of bunker on the bottom . Key word "Bottom" .. Hooked up some I couldn't get in on heavy conventional gear .. Interest change over the years . I still wonder if sometimes the speedy smaller fish are quicker to raise than the beast laying on the bottom .. I catch fewer,,, but larger fish on a slow sink needle I can get down in thier face .

from my own personal stand point I would have to say live bait (eels)...even if just for the confidence factor ....

live bait is more of an insurance against failure..

I agree, but only in the case of large fish, say 20+ pounds. If I needed to catch a fish regardless of size, I would take some spinning gear with 12# or 14# mono tied direct to a 5 1/4" rebel and catch fish at will.
I watched and listened to the live herring soakers in the canal proclaim themselves to be the sharpest of the sharpies when it came to catching bass there. ..

Gotta agree there too, but when the herring usage stopped I was introduced to a better method utilizing artificials. Believe it or not my ratio of small to large is much more in favor of larger fish now without herring. Yes, I get many fewer fish now, but better quality. A herring did produce my best canal fish though.

Like DZ mentioned, the single hook thing makes utilizing bait very effective for landing large fish.

The reason most people fail to produce large fish on plugs is because they don't/can't get their offering close enough to the bottom or keep it there long enough to intercept a large fish. A cape legend once told me "targeting for the largest fish involves fishing the bottom." It doesn't matter if its a lure or bait.

Save the poppers for bluefish. :rude:

Best chance at a large bass is natural bait, be it live eels or a bloody bunker steak.

aaaahhh is this what winter is for.

1. Where do fifty's spend most of there time? Close to the bottom.
2. Why, that's where the food is and the water conditions suit them.
3. Fifty's don't eat appetizers all day they eat meals.
4. What do their meals consist of? Lobster, crab, fluke, tog, scup seabass, pogies, eels ect.. Whole or not they are piece of sea fresh meat.
5. Bait is whole or pieces of fresh sea meat

They've been caught on fly's lures probably appetizer size lures but doesn't change the fact bait is better, lures satisfy the angler and if thats what floats your boat then you never have to touch another peice of bait again.

Disclaimer: I own a ton of plugs, and I really do enjoy fishing with them at times.

Truth: 90% of the time I am slinging eels. I believe eels allow the presentation that I need to get to the bigger fish. Whether I am dropping them into a trough or a bowl on the outer beaches, lobbing them into a boulder field or letting them swing over a reef into a deep hole... I am throwing a creature that they naturally forage. It is a living, writhing creature with a heartbeat and a scent.

IMO...advantage EELS.:fishin:

big live bait= big fish:musc:

can you say"LIVE BUNKER"?

Disclaimer: I own a ton of plugs, and I really do enjoy fishing with them at times.

Truth: 90% of the time I am slinging eels. I believe eels allow the presentation that I need to get to the bigger fish. Whether I am dropping them into a trough or a bowl on the outer beaches, lobbing them into a boulder field or letting them swing over a reef into a deep hole... I am throwing a creature that they naturally forage. It is a living, writhing creature with a heartbeat and a scent.

IMO...advantage EELS.:fishin:

same here.
BAck Beach, you sound exactly like my old man. He told me you should use eels and onlyneed 1 plug, cordell redfin -silver scale finish, a bunch of jigs, and for schoolies, a fly with a wooden egg. All the rest is a waste. I dint listen and have a basement full of plugs and intending to buy more at the SWE show....

can you say"LIVE BUNKER"?
:agree:

Plugs or live bait? Explain why please and no pissing, moaning or derogatory and blatant inflamatory bs, just legitimate theory as to what and why a live bait would give you a better shot than a plug or vice versa. No luck, fate or otherwise either just answer the basic question.

We all know where I stand, let's hear your reasoning

Flap, I don't know why but I actually believed you were about to offer an answer to the basic question like you asked for.Instead you offerred inflammatory(insurance against failure) bs and reminisced about the old days again.Why establish guidelines and then ignore them? Now go ahead and take another shot at answering your own question.

Live bait, all day, everyday. Bunker = candy

can you say"LIVE BUNKER"?

bring your greasy bunker out to Block Island when the large are feasting on sand eels and see what happens. :D

the favored offering, be it live bait or plugs depends on the situations you are confronted with.

Bass are opertunistic feeders, but they are also selective when there is ample choices put in front of them.

if it were me and i went on a quest for a 5o this year, i would use cut bunker and chum like a mad man. I'd fish the same spot every night for days on end and in essense I would 'create' my own pogie bite in an area that i know holds big bass by simply having a chum pressense at some level every night.

if it were me and i went on a quest for a 5o this year, i would use cut bunker and chum like a mad man. I'd fish the same spot every night for days on end and in essense I would 'create' my own pogie bite in an area that i know holds big bass by simply having a chum pressense at some level every night.

That is just what we used to do for years at Keene street, in the canal. Tide after tide. Artificial chum slick. Had to coax the fish up over the edge to feed. Chum everything and drift the heads. Gave up doing that lots of years ago, got boring and pogies got scarce and expensive. I would vote for bait Steve.

Relegated to obscurity and consoling each other on good they were while eating breakfast together at a Buzzards Bay eatery each weekend.

.

wow, there's a shot :eek:


IMO what would give me a better chance at a fifty between the 2 choices you give would be live bait. But I would prefer dead bait presented to a big old cow bass over 50 pounds because they can be lazy and opportunistic. I prefer to fish for large with jigs, it's what works for me. I enjoy fishing with plugs and get alot of satisfaction when I succeed and actually catch bass with them.
Live bait is so much more realistic, it has scent,it moves on it's own, it reacts to attacks the bass doesn't have to be tricked into thinking this bait is actually a fish, because it is a fish(or eel).

Flap, I don't know why but I actually believed you were about to offer an answer to the basic question like you asked for.Instead you offerred inflammatory(insurance against failure) bs and reminisced about the old days again.Why establish guidelines and then ignore them? Now go ahead and take another shot at answering your own question.

Awesome

what would give me a BETTER shot

BIG EELS
BUNKER
LIVELINING SCUP/TINKER BLUES UNDER A BALLOON

will they go for a plug, if they were hungry and there was no bait in the area, probably, but why wold you be there in the first place with lack of bait?

Yeah those guys who enjoy their breakfast and friendship at the Chicken Ranch don`t catch fish :hihi: but who cares when you have friends.

Flap, I don't know why but I actually believed you were about to offer an answer to the basic question like you asked for.Instead you offerred inflammatory(insurance against failure) bs and reminisced about the old days again.Why establish guidelines and then ignore them? Now go ahead and take another shot at answering your own question.

First off, how is that inflamatory BS? Bait fishing, as most in this thread have expressed, is the best way to your goal over plug fishing, in that context then would it not be a better route to go than plugs if it has that inherrent edge? Would that not be a form of insurance against failure knowing that if you were going out to fish tonight and you know that bait produces more big fish percentage wise than plugs it would give you that edge over the plug guys. That is an insurance motive and that bit of insurance gives you the advantage.

I did answer the question. And my point about the old days, (which you yourself relished in telling me at Striperfest two years ago as you related the tale of past times that nothing could compete with yo yo ing bunker out of that Red Seacraft for big bass in big numbers), is that plugs once could compete and maybe will again.

Bait fishing makes it a bit easier to accomplish your goals as far as getting a fifty or better and live or dead bait in that case is added insurance that you will achieve what you seek. Is that inflammatory? No, it's a fact.

Awesome

I expected more out of you Bruce.

Thank You for providing a "legitimate theory" Flap.
Now go find where you put your medicine.

I expected more out of you Bruce.

It's funny Steve, gotta laugh with it
not about the imflammatory stuff

I will say that if there is a 50 in front of you....that is half the battle. Getting it to take your offering is the other half and at that point you have a better than even chance of getting it to take either offering! My 50, if I ever get one will be on a plug!

all pretty much agreed "live bait"wins the take large catergory .. That being said ,, taking large on a plug would be more of an achievement .. again if all agree using "live bait" the chances are better of taking large .. No ???

I agree that 8 out of 10 times a fifty will come on "Livies"!

Just found this Thread! :o

My contribution to this Thread/ question, was just now written (silly enough) on P. # 4 of that "Why haven't you landed a 50 yet?" Thread! :walk:

Thank You for providing a "legitimate theory" Flap.
Now go find where you put your medicine.

I gave up the meds that might be the problem. Going clean and sober is tough.

I gave up the meds that might be the problem. Going clean and sober is tough.


You did? I saw a picture of you somewhere and you look leaner and healthier.

C&S: I had to awhile back but they keep giving more meds now.

Referring to surf fishing, ./// Are you sure chunked bait is the way to go? :D

For the most part, you lose some things while bait fishing.....2 things that go hand in hand, Distance + you'll definately be covering less water, not that you always need distance, but depending on where you're fishing, it could mean the difference between catching something or nothing at all, nevermind a 50. Not to mention, crabs won't normally pull your plug under a rock :vamp:, skates and dogfish prefer bait over plastics 2 to 1 according to the last census,..// etc// ...you can fan while baitfishing, but it won't last as long with the continuous casting, the eel being the exception - but you'll still lose distance with eels. How many casts can you make and how much water can you cover with a plug versus 1 cast and turtle retrieving an eel???

Think about it.

I still think BAIT, alive or fresh would be my answer.

Bait.

An eel casts as well as most metal lip swimmers, Gil. And I don't retrieve a swimmer much faster than I retrieve an eel.

A rigged eel will outcast most swimmers--but is that a bait or a lure? ;)

And I won't mention dogfish and their preference for bait over jigs :D

Actually making it out on the water when conditions are most favorable with one of my two favorite plugs.

With those two things coming together I'd have all the confidence in the world.

Mike, when speaking of eels,,,

>> is that a bait or a lure?....

I hope you know what you started, that will be the Title to the next 4 new threads. :fishslap:,,,

Seriously though,, I don't consider eel fishing equal to bait-fishing. I do work chunked baits thru drifts...and I will also make occasional bounces with my chunks when bottom fishing, to rejuvenate the juices as well as move it away from a tugging crab or just to another spot,,, but eel fishing in an essence, is plugging ...with a "Living" plug. "Plugging" by definition, is to "keep at something" which to me means continuously casting and retrieving, that's what I do with eels, , thus plugging .
I have also chunked FAT river eels, but I consider that Bait Fishing, it's all in what you do with the eel that makes it a plug or a bait. :D Happy now??

In my analogy, I was comparing a 2 -3 oz. needle versus a bloody, fresh pogy chunk :drool:..............I should have been more specific.






but just like in my other post, I would still pick BAIT over PLUGS if there was money on the line

From a boat:
Live Bunker
Bunker spoons
Whole or the head of a Dead Bunker

From the shore:
Chunks
Eels
Mambo Minnow