i dont understand why people are so against it

pogey is loaded with weights, spark plugs, wire, etc. fish goes to inhale said pogey. you set the hook. fish is hooked. pogey slides up the line. you battle cow bass. another cow bass comes in and swallows said pogey full of weights, spark plugs, wire, etc. and such is the controversy....

its not really the problem when the fish arrives at the boat and you land it.... its when you hook the fish, the pogie is swallowed and then the line snaps. then you have a fish with at least 5 oz. of lead in it along with a wire hanger ----> fish can't live that way.

how does everyone here feel about this?

i dont understand why people are so against it
I'd wager many if not most who are against it have never done it, myself included...

My take is that the perception is that it's:

1) very effective
2) used mostly by comms
3) has a high mortality

Now, knowing little about it, I have no data to say if there really is high mortality or not. For all I know break offs could be very rare and the method could simply be very effective at catching large bass.

But considering the poaching that many believe (or know) to be happening...the image of a person using a potentially high mortality technique to poach fish at the expense of the legal fisherpeople is easy to imagine for many, regardless if it's legitimate or not.

Thats at least why I think so many are against it.

-spence

i fish can't live that way.

yes it can. see results of this past season's MV derby...

yes it can. see results of this past season's MV derby...

ok yes that is tru and i know very well of those situations. however, i was not referring so much to the lead weight (as in the case of the MV example) as to the metal hangers that become lodged in the stomachs of the bass or fish that took it. as im sure you know, it can easily puncture the stomachs wall and release digestive enzymes into the abdomen of the fish killing it. if it somehow makes it way to the fishes exit, it usually becomes lodged there and the fish can no longer excrete its wastes.... thats all im saying. i have no actual scientific journal to back me up but just have picked this information up from local guys that have done it for a long time.

You can essentially use a yoyo technique in a modified better way as to get your weight back. That is not a problem for most people. It is just another way of presentling your bait.

You can essentially use a yoyo technique in a modified better way as to get your weight back. That is not a problem for most people. It is just another way of presentling your bait.

a great example had been published rather recently... november '07 OTW issue if my memory serves me right.

i don't have an opinion on yo-yoing one way or the other.. i'm sure in the hands of an expert its efficient and deadly. but the weekend warriors are the people that worry me.

i just find it fascinating how bass can survive with that much garbage in their gut. hearty critters for sure...

i'm sure in the hands of an expert its efficient and deadly. but the weekend warriors are the people that worry me.
i just find it fascinating how bass can survive with that much garbage in their gut. hearty critters for sure...

totally agree with you there. i can't believe that they can carry 10-15+oz of lead and still be "ok".... definitely very hearty animals for sure.

i can't believe that they can carry 10-15+oz of lead and still be "ok"....


Lead??? What are you guys talking about???

He was asking about Yo-=Yo-ing Pogies ///

The true skill of Yo-Yo-ing pogies has nothing to do with lead....


It's all about getting the Yo - Yo inside the pogy....the rest takes care of itself.....

I'd rather use the Duncan Imperial....rounder edge lets the pogie live a little longer

I really wish everyone everywhere would get the heck off this topic.

IMHO -- all that On the Water article and every post and letter complaining about the technique managed to accomplish was getting 3000 more people that had never heard of yo-yoing to go try it.

So now instead of a limited # of people that know the technique using it, you have every tom #^&#^&#^&#^& and harry that doesn't know what the hell they're doing stuffing crap in pogies trying to discover the "deadly technique" that they read about.

I'm sure intentions were sound, but the reality IMHO, is there is now more crap in the water than their ever was before -- you know, back when people knew how to keep their YAPS shut.

(and if this post is perpetuating the problem - I'll go look in the mirror and call myself an idiot too).

I have done it once, and know people that do it commercial, and for the life of me I can't understand why??

Get up 2am go find the bait, then spend the next couple of hours rigging the bait, Now head out for the bass, you catch a ton. go to the market and sell, now go wash the boat and get ready for the next day.

Lets see that was a 18 hour day not to mention the gas and stuff, what did you make today when it was all said and done?? $3 a hour

Nope not for me!! I rather use some ells and if I really needed to there is wire jigging, But I hate that to LOL

(and if this post is perpetuating the problem - I'll go look in the mirror and call myself an idiot too).

I wasn't sure if I wanted to respond to this post for the stated reason :) but I already know I am...

However, I am not sure that the negative publicity is going to greatly increase the occurance, but you might be right.

Seems like they could just be 3-wayed...

I really wish everyone everywhere would get the heck off this topic.



Well if we all kept out YAPS shut and never gave our opinions (almost all seem to be negative) then perhaps he would have taken that for maybe everyone is doing it. Then all you have is one more person giving it a try that knows relatively little about the "proper" way of doing it. Sometimes you have to sacrifice talking about something you don't want to talk about in order to share all the negative side affects about it. People are quick to assume, but if they hear 20 board members saying it can be a detrimental act, then perhaps they will not try it themselves. But you at least have to talk about it......

You must have a higher opinion of the general population's nature than I do.

I've become pretty darn jaded by some of the things I see out there.

You must have a higher opinion of the general population's nature than I do.

I've become pretty darn jaded by some of the things I see out there.

I can totally understand your point... I'm still pretty young and maybe give to many people the benefit of the doubt. I guess only age would be able to help me on that one :bl:

Yo-Yo

I'd wager many if not most who are against it have never done it, myself included...

My take is that the perception is that it's:

1) very effective
2) used mostly by comms
3) has a high mortality

Now, knowing little about it, I have no data to say if there really is high mortality or not. For all I know break offs could be very rare and the method could simply be very effective at catching large bass.

But considering the poaching that many believe (or know) to be happening...the image of a person using a potentially high mortality technique to poach fish at the expense of the legal fisherpeople is easy to imagine for many, regardless if it's legitimate or not.

Thats at least why I think so many are against it.
-spence

1. Yes it is.
2. Yes it is.
3. Yes it does, but in my case it is because I don't think I have lost a fish after hooking up when I go comm fishing with my buddy.

Further though, I find it difficult to imagine using coat hanger under the dorsal fin, but some probably do, most comm people use the same type of wood skewers that teriaki are grilled on and I find it even more difficult/repugnant that a sparkplug or other such items are used. We used a custom pored weight in the fishes mouth. This last winter/fall a doctor wrote to the Vineyard Gazette and at some length took exception to the opinon the lead weight swallowed by a striped caused harm to the fish or anyone who ate the fish even after the weight entered the body of the fish through the stomach wall and became permantly stuck there because obviously it can't exit the fishes body. The doctor wrote that the harm to the fish would occurr to the bone structure and scales, not the meat. One of the derby participants caught a fifty something pound bass that had I think five weights inside the fish. The took the weights out after weighing the fish and then counted the fishes weight for the derby less the lead weights. I think the biggest problem lies with the people that use this method to catch fish and dont know how to put the fish in the boat. They pull the hook out, the knots they use are not tied up well-enough, and son on. If you've fish in amongst a drift with a group of twenty or thirty comm guys over a large pod of stripers with just a few feet between boatrs like I have I don't see any of them dropping bass. They land thier fish. The only people I see dropping fish are the ones who yank the hook out of the fishes gut and are rec. fisherman. That 50 plus pound fish the guy on the Vineyard weighted in couldn't have been harmed to much to have grown to the size it did.

And I didn't start this thread this time.

B/J

your 100% right >>>>>>>Amen ;;:wid:

test test test

one more time . I hate old librarians that dont trust young guys that do their jobs correctly

Was on charter where Captain used this method using wood skewers with custom weights like mentioned earlier. I didn't see a problem with it as we took some big fish with this method. We were keeping all fish. My only issue is if an undersized fish took the bunker, I wouldn't give it much of a chance of survival. With having said that, it's a proven method and to each their own!

Ice

Was on charter where Captain used this method using wood skewers with custom weights like mentioned earlier. I didn't see a problem with it as we took some big fish with this method. We were keeping all fish. My only issue is if an undersized fish took the bunker, I wouldn't give it much of a chance of survival. With having said that, it's a proven method and to each their own!

Ice

I'll bet there are many more lures/and bait type tackle of all types get lodged in the mouths and gullets of stripedbass that cause as much if not more harm. I only used this method when I am with my buddy on his boat. Never used it recreationally. I don't ever see it being banned. It is very effective. It is a dead certainty that the fish will ingest pieces of metal and that is something we all have to be concerned with. If its banned so be it.

I am curious how the boat/captain was keeping all the fish?

I wrote the OTW Article and to be honest, I did it so people could read both sides of the story and make up their own minds. In my opinion, left out of the article, if done with some common sense, small adjustments to the traditional mehtods reduce serious risk and int eh end, way way way more bass are killed by wire line jiggin then yo yo. Education and teaching people how to use a more responsible variation of yoyo fishing is what will bring change. We didn;t have to force the use of circle hooks, but the education surrounding circle hooks has me using them 100% of the time with eels. Same for YOYO...discussion is good.

I wrote the OTW Article and to be honest, I did it so people could read both sides of the story and make up their own minds. In my opinion, left out of the article, if done with some common sense, small adjustments to the traditional mehtods reduce serious risk and int eh end, way way way more bass are killed by wire line jiggin then yo yo. Education and teaching people how to use a more responsible variation of yoyo fishing is what will bring change. We didn;t have to force the use of circle hooks, but the education surrounding circle hooks has me using them 100% of the time with eels. Same for YOYO...discussion is good.

Couldn't agree more.....

you catch a striper and decide to keep it, you bring it home and filet it , during the cleaning you find lead weights and rebar in its stomach :yak: , i don't know how you would feel but i am tossing that fish right in the trash , such a waste .

Blue Oyster, don't eat at restaurants, don't buy fish at fish markets. I M unprofessional O,, eating lead paint chips and eating bass at have lead in them at one point does not have the same effect on us,, if it did they would have traced the harms years and years ago.

despite the reputation alot of people have pointed out yoyoing is very effective, especially in those dogs days of august when you need to be deep

despite the reputation alot of people have pointed out yoyoing is very effective, especially in those dogs days of august when you need to be deep

Yes it is..I haven't done it yet but have seen guys taking good bass on it when nothing else would work..Very effective,,,,I have no problem doing it..

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because, BD its for when the bass are deep and you need to get the bait down to them.

If the goal of fishing is to catch fish, how in the world can it be cheating? A dead bunker has NO action, so, a live eel must be cheating too?
This is a silly debate, as with any technique due diligence should be done to ensure the fisherman is not unneccesarily harming the fish. the reality of fishing is that you, all of you, put a hook through the mouth of a living thing, make it fight for its life just so you can have some fun, period. If you have a prblem with an effective way to do that, take up golf.

because, BD its for when the bass are deep and you need to get the bait down to them.


Since i am neither a BOAT guy nor a commercial fisherman, i'll still ask the same questions. if Mr Nolan can be so effective live-lining adult bunker ~unless he has a corner on the technique market~ then why risk more led for the mighty Atlantic and morone saxitilis? Fogeddah 'bout the increased striper mortalities when done improperly, though that is a by product of this method, no?

Additionally, won't chunking send your offering to the appropiate depths?

the redneck conversation was ticheek, of course. i am quite sure it's effective or so many people wouldn't be doing it. just seems above and beyond natural, a little bit smarmy, and do you reely believe that it is not some sort of performance enhancement that would similarily relate to ped's? umbrella rigs and wahoo rigging notwithstanding, since that is mostly just that, RIGGING ~without the added led.

another consideration for the mix is the MV Derby banning it for thier competitive purposes. why so if it is such an acceptable way to present one's offering? could it be that is unfair, unreasonable, or unsafe?

just curious, RIJIMMY, and i'm most interested in your responses.

don't see the resemblance to rigging eels or live-lining them as that is one of thier purposes in life, the purpose of forage and being on the lower end of the "Circle Hook of Oceanic Life". Cow kukunnah matattah, bw :kewl: :kewl:!

Im FAR from informed on yo yo or chunkingm, but, I would ask Bill to chime in on how succesful he was livelining bunker from mid-July until Septemer. My guess in not very. Bass are deep in the day.
As far as the advantage of chunk vs, yo - perhaps a complete fish bouncing up and down is more appealing than a hunk of meat? No clue.

Never did it so don't know but, When you live-line a bunker don't they pretty much stay in the top few feet of the water column.

I can see where if your Yo-Yoing your getting it down 50-60 feet or more

....the reality of fishing is that you, all of you, put a hook through the mouth of a living thing, make it fight for its life just so you can have some fun, period....


The absolute TRUE-est statement I've seen on these boards in a LONG time. :claps::claps:

Everytime you make a cast you risk the life of a fish in one way or another - There's No arguing that. At least with bait, albeit an eel, chunk or dead baitfish, you're leaving a possible prize for the fish if you don't land it. With plugs, the most the fish can get away with is it's life. There's another way to look at :hee:............:rude:

W O W ><><><>;)

The absolute TRUE-est statement I've seen on these boards in a LONG time. :claps::claps:

Everytime you make a cast you risk the life of a fish in one way or another - There's No arguing that. At least with bait, albeit an eel, chunk or dead baitfish, you're leaving a possible prize for the fish if you don't land it. With plugs, the most the fish can get away with is it's life. There's another way to look at :hee:............:rude:

Yeah unless the treble hook hooks the fishes mouth shut and then they can't eat till it rusts out, or the fish dies

A lot of people don't seem to get this part.After you set the hook,the yo-yo breaks free from the hook.The fish then either spits out the pogie,or expels it from its gills.The loaded pogie is then picked up by a SECOND bass.Whether you suffer a break-off or hook pull,has nothing to do with anything.You can land and keep every bass you ever hook.The problem is the 2nd fish,she gets to live with the lead and skewer.

[QUOTE=BassDawg;=/QUOTE]
BD, I KNOW you mean well, but "Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"?

Why why why do you chime in if you have never chunked or yo yo-ed or wire-lined or any other deep water boat technique for 'the great morone saxitilis'. You just absolutely showed that you have never live lined pogies for bass. How do you get the bait down to bass and past your 'boos'? Some guys 3-way, some guys add an egg sinker, some yo-yo. All add lead to the 'great Atlantic'

Yo-yoing just puts the lead inside the bait, thats the difference. It was banned at the MV tournament (they can say it is health reasons), but solid lead cannot, at a molecular level get into the meat and poison people, and yes there is some collateral damage as animal mentioned, I am certain, but wire line, and every other fishery has collateral damage. They banned it because, what is to stop someone from stuffing 3 of 4 yo-yo rigged pogies @2lbs each down the gullet of a bass; 42lbs becomes 48 or 50. '

Oops; I wasn't yo-yoing, must have already been inside that fish' thus it opens the door for cheating.

I chose not to rig them this way for bass (tuna yes) and do I know how, but truth be told I prefer to catch bass from shore, and save the boat for bottom fish, tuna and sharks.

What RIJim said a few replies below are true, even for a republican.

one important thing to remember is that while fishing in over 50ft of water with a bunker about 12in long it is highly unlikely you will hook up with a 20in schoolie, the fish you get yo yoing are not babies

one important thing to remember is that while fishing in over 50ft of water with a bunker about 12in long it is highly unlikely you will hook up with a 20in schoolie, the fish you get yo yoing are not babies

Again, see Animals post; MOST of the guys fishing yo-yo's are on HEAVY tackle, they arent hooking and releasing fish, they want to get 5 and get home. the problem is the busted off, non-caught fish.

Pat, you wrote a great article, but I'm worried you'll turn some of the light-tackle crowd into pin-hookers, and THEN these techniques will become a problem...

i see the argument, however, just think of how many of the weighted pogies dont get eaten (sure some do). but i'm prob not the only one whose lost a fish because the fish felt the hook. now imagine a fish mouthing 8oz of lead plus a skewer

i see the argument, however, just think of how many of the weighted pogies dont get eaten (sure some do). but i'm prob not the only one whose lost a fish because the fish felt the hook. now imagine a fish mouthing 8oz of lead plus a skewer

INSIDE a pogy; less likely to me than the fish feeling lead on a 3-way or egg-sinker.

fair enough, however i appreciate yoyoing in the dog days of august

I fish the yo-yo,so I'm not condemning it's use,however,the bass you land,does not contain a loaded pogie.The fish you see following it to the boat does.

Why why why do you chime in if you have never chunked or yo yo-ed or wire-lined or any other deep water boat technique for 'the great morone saxitilis'.

Bryan, my question was because of my ignorance in this particular method of "getting deep". i don't believe that you have to have done all the ways of deep water fishing for striped bass to formulate an opinion/theory, albeit informed or not. that is the purpose of asking questions isn't it? to become better informed about a certain subject, right?

Very good response, most educational, and if you reread the part about the MV Derby i think you'll find that i suggested that this method left room for unethical competition. that is all :wave:!

nice comments about my ineptitude, though.
whatever floats yer boat, trips your trigger,
or helps ya to sleep at night :faga:.

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WOW, Jenn!

What have ya got against Rednecks?
They're people, too ya know...............:heybaby:
At least i didn't slam the caveman :tooth: :tooth:

WOW, Jenn!


Is there a post missing or sometin?? She don't normally slam somebody -

:wave:WOW, Jenn!

What have ya got against Rednecks?
They're people, too ya know...............:heybaby:
At least i didn't slam the caveman :tooth: :tooth:

Nothing against them....I are one!:humpty:

Most days I may have found it funny but with the recent rash of temper flair ups around here leaving the post was tempting fate:huh:.....like I said tongue in cheek or not it had potential to provoke.....

That's COOL!
Just trying to add a little levity :kewl:.