In the past 4-5 years the bass fishing from the Cape beaches has gotten exponentially worse and worse each year. The numbers of fish that used to venture in close to shore at night has gone way downhill since 2001 or so. Every year less fishermen are fishing the outer beaches. Each year the bluefish take up the slack more and more.
Diehards walk the beaches at night even with eels with nothing to show for it all summer long. It has gotten pathetic.

Why?


Some say it's the bait staying offshore a mile or so, others state the more obvious = seals are the reason. Is it a combination of lots of things or a cycle?

I want to know when it will improve because I love the outer beaches but I also know when it is futile to pound sand for no return.
I am sick of losing plugs to seals when I do hook up with an occasional bass or a large blue at night.
I imagine that even the boat guys out by Race point have seen a decline as well over the past few years.
What can be done? and who is going to get the seals out of there?

:bsod::realmad:

Seals Bruce....plain and simple. Since their numbers have increased down the backside.......bait and more importantly stripers, are more reluctant to spend much time inshore. What can we do? Nothing.

While I’m certainly no expert, it seams to me that the presence of the seals and/or migration of baitfish to the offshore shoals due to other reasons has prevented large amounts of bait (sandeels and silverside) from populating the shorelines of the outer Cape. Without that, the whole food chain breaks down. Rather than roam the barren waters looking for whatever food they can find, the bass either stay off shore where the bait on the cape is or head to other areas – either wherever the bunker are or to rockier areas to the north and south where there is a more diverse food chain along the shoreline (crabs, pollack, lobster, tog, etc.). The lack of ecological diversity at the bottom of the food chain on the outer cape shoreline is part of the problem is I guess what I’m trying to say.

what can you do? probably nothing which sucks. They're never going to exterminate seals, and with them there there's really not much incentive for the baitfish to migrate back inshore. Maybe eventually things will get bad enough that the seals run out of food, then they'll probably show up other places and the cycle will start again.

The summer fishing declined before the seals became an issue. What I mean by this is the schools of fish that used to spend the summer in proximity to the shore out there seem to have relocated. From the early 80's through 2000, we had good catchable numbers of fish out there all summer. The summer fish would bunch up and begin to move from mid to late august through mid September. At times the summer fish would be joined by migrating schools. You could tell when the new schools of fish arrived as the sizes and numbers would be different. In 2000 there was a noticeable lack of resident summer fish out there and I subsequently gave up on commercial fishing out there shortly after. We did have some remarkable fall fishing out there up until 2004, but that has since died off too. I would attribute some of this to seals, but if you fished the cape long and hard as I did, its apparent there is something else at work in addition to the seals. With all that said, keep your eye on the place as its gone through slow periods in the past too. It wasn't all glory all the time as some of the "experts" would have you believe.

They heard I was coming and got scared.
Fo rizzy, do the math. Find out how many lbs of fish seals eat in a day. Then multiply that by the estimated number of seals. Then multiply that by 120. There is your answer.

Bruce, just the thought will make you sick again. Why drive past the canal?

If the seals are there then you can estimate that their is an abundant amount of food to sustain them or else they would move on.I'm no expert but i would venture to guess its a cycle as nature has a way of balancing things out in the end its just how long the cycle will last.

plus with the longshore currents of the cape, Moving sand has probably Moved traditionally productive spots

The summer fishing declined before the seals became an issue. What I mean by this is the schools of fish that used to spend the summer in proximity to the shore out there seem to have relocated. From the early 80's through 2000, we had good catchable numbers of fish out there all summer. The summer fish would bunch up and begin to move from mid to late august through mid September. At times the summer fish would be joined by migrating schools. You could tell when the new schools of fish arrived as the sizes and numbers would be different. In 2000 there was a noticeable lack of resident summer fish out there and I subsequently gave up on commercial fishing out there shortly after. We did have some remarkable fall fishing out there up until 2004, but that has since died off too. I would attribute some of this to seals, but if you fished the cape long and hard as I did, its apparent there is something else at work in addition to the seals. With all that said, keep your eye on the place as its gone through slow periods in the past too. It wasn't all glory all the time as some of the "experts" would have you believe.

Mike can you expand on that? Do you have any theories as to what else may be at work? Because I am reluctantly falling into the seal "pit of despair" with many others. Although I have gone over other ideas like bait migration patterns, water temp, structure change...:bsod: I miss the better days.

Unfortunately, there is another possibility to consider. The genetic trait for bass to feed inshore was punished severely by catch and kill fishing (be it recreational or commercial). The fish that feed offshore have been less pressured and lived to pass on their instincts. I have no proof that is what is happening, but would anyone be surprised if it is? Lu's point about there being enough bait for the seals to thrive on is a strong argument that the absence of bait is not the real issue.

thats a great theory Numbskull. something i've been wondering about myself....

Unfortunately, there is another possibility to consider. The genetic trait for bass to feed inshore was punished severely by catch and kill fishing (be it recreational or commercial). The fish that feed offshore have been less pressured and lived to pass on their instincts. I have no proof that is what is happening, but would anyone be surprised if it is? Lu's point about there being enough bait for the seals to thrive on is a strong argument that the absence of bait is not the real issue.


That really is a very interesting theory,I have always thought it was all the seals fault, and I still think part of it is, but that is definately something to think about.

As backup to what Numbskull put forth as theory, we often have spectacular wire line jigging upon return from chasing bluefin out east of Chatham just before we head for the barn maybe a 1/2 to 3/4's of a mile off of the beach just east of Chatham light.

Also, we have run in to herds of bass and bluefish 35 miles east of the inlet in past years that ate the spreader bars with abandon enough to be a pain in the ass.

There are plenty of bass just off of the beach all along the outer Cape. Plenty of bait too. They just won't come in to the beach. One thing we did notice is that just along shore the water temps were colder than they are just a mile or so east of the beach.

The beach will come back. When is anyones guess. It has never ever been consistent in reality. The 70's, the 90's and a ray of sunshine here and there. To believe that it and has been great year after year after year is naive, you have to beleive and hope that each year will be the one ( and then hope nobody else finds out).

Hardly anyone fishes beyond ten pm until the second rip crew shows at 4am at RP. I still do but I'm a holdout.

Seals do suck but I have seen a herd of 20 seals with an sctively feeding school of bass just inshore of them and they were not chasing the bass. I have lost hooked bass to them but have never seen them take wild fish other than in Scorton Creek in winter.

I think this is all an Internet rumour to keep the NY guys from going to the cape.

We all talk about the striped bass inshore to the cape because that's what we target. But I've been fishing the national seashore from the beach and by boat, and Cape Cod Bay by boat for many years and have seen other changes as well. Sand Dabs used to be an irritant in picking your bait, but I can't remember the last time I saw a Sand Dab. Sand Eels used to be abundant in the sand for raking on the Race and around Hatches Harbor, but few can be found now (although they're abundant in the water column). Skates used to be everywhere (I guess I shouldn't complain), but can't remember the last time I caught a skate while bait fishing. Fluke were plentiful in P-town harbor and the bay, but now are slim pickings. Fluke and skate seem to have been replaced by a HUGE population of spiny dogfish. Although peanut bunker are typically around, the large near shore shoals of baby bunker has been a rare sight. All of these changes seem to have coincided with the growing presence of seals. But correlation is NOT causality. I don't know if the seals are solely responsible for this change over the last 10 years (and especially the last 5 or so), but if I'm CSI Cape Cod, they're my #1 suspect.

I think this is all an Internet rumour to keep the NY guys from going to the cape.

aaahhahahah...someone finally figured it out :rotf3: :fishslap: :rotf3:
there are plenty of HUGE bass!!! come on up...the gig is up :heybaby:

I think this is all an Internet rumour to keep the NY guys from going to the cape.

The way its going on the Cape i'm just glad there are no fish in N.Y. also very few seals come to think of it.

i don't think there is a lack of fish off the cape beachs,maybe a lack of decent sized fish and shore caught fish,but the boats had tons of fish right off the beach.paddling the kayak just off the beach i saw fish all summer.i know guys that were getting 50 to 75 fish a day during com season but only a handful of keepers. i think something is happening to the water quality that is affecting the bottom close to the beachs. when snokeling the bottom is devoid of bottom life, something is keeping the sandeels from borrowing along the beachs, you see tons in the water just off the beach. i also think that the majority of bigger fish are staying south in LI and NJ or heading north were bigger bait is available.i think the seals just compound the problem and make things even worse.i do find it odd that the bluefishing hasn'tfrom the beach hasn't been affected

All that ky jelly in the water is attracting seals :lama:

Like Sweetwater i find the inshore and inside the bay void of life. sand eels. sand dabs(which my kids were raised on) black back flounder, skates ,sculpin. Do you think the poop from 6-9000 seals hauling out on the sandbars and beach would have anything to do with it?Think about it the next time your little kid plays in the sand. the seashore is a PARK. I think that means for humans

The seals are folllowing the fish into the canal also. Just a matter of time before they establish a community in Buzzards Bay and Sandwich. Last year they came in with the herring and hung around all season. It was common to compete with them at the west end.

It will never again happen - but!!! Bring back the bounty.:realmad:


Bruce, just the thought will make you sick again. Why drive past the canal?

Something is causing the seals to migrate from their old stomping grounds.Find out what.....

Cape guys need to start breeding great whites and Orcas to feed on the seals.Simple yet effective solution.

Sealz!:nailem:

Sense Ricky and Mikey started fishing there the fishing has declined


MUNG

You are all right! The moving sand, the enviorment, Dogfish, Seals, and you be surprised to see the birds eating small Flounder off the flats!

Its all a cycle! And I am sure at some point it will be great again! Just have to wait it out.

I moved to the Cape in 95 Just for the Chatam fishing!! As I was driving here 6 days a week to fish any way!!
I just moved off the Cape in November and I am buying a house right now near the canal. As I have not fished out of Chatam in like 4 years, just not worth it anymore. But I am still close enough if it ever changes!

I am a true believer in the cycle theory...to a point. I think the large presence of seals is certainly a factor too. Mung.....I havent seen a year in the past 25 years that I have been going there that mung hasnt been around. Its noting new and I dont think thats the reason for the lack of fish. I DO worry about why I have not caught a single skate or flatfish while baitfishing in the last several years though. Not that I LIKE skates but 10 years ago you could fill a pick up in a night if you wanted too and now not even a one? Digs sandeels? forget it...

Is this all part of the big cycle? I hope so....and I hope its about through!

Last year (and years past) I have seen Seals eat Skates, Dogfish, flounder, Striped bass, & Blue fish.

Jenn I just hate mung it always stays in the best structure

Did we also forget about the possible long term affects from the outfall pipe. people constantly talk about the affects of nitrogen from lawn fertilizer leaching into the ocean. how many millions of gallons of nitrogen come out of that pipe a year and are funneled down tward the cape by the labrador current.

I'm a believer in the cycle theory. Mike is right, it wasn't always glory times on The Back. We had down years and spectacular years. 94, 95 were banner years for big fish. 99, 2000 not so much. 2001 Fall was HUGE.
My old record books show that 96, 97 we "sucked wind" from mid-July thru the 1st of Sept. I think we tend to remember the good night and forget all the bad ones.

There is no question that the seals have effected the quality of the fishing. I still think the Bass will come back.

NIB has caught all the fish in NJ..

A combo of all of the above, I believe - schools of bass hang around an area because of food/bait. They used to hit the beach hard in the night and early morning, feed, retreat back to deeper water during the day/sun, and then head back for the bait the next night.

Sand dabs and skates gone - cause, seals.

Sand eels are another story - gone from the beach but not 1/2 mile from the beach, so LIFish has a point there. Why aren't the sand eels going in close - run-off messing with the sand quality? Density of the sand, has it changed in the past years and the sand eels are finding other spots to burrow? Has the bottom changed (probably) due to storms, currents etc and now the sand eels pass by their traditional burrowing spots - Pamet as well as Race Pt don't give up the #'s they used to have.

The fish are their, just offshore. The question is why aren't they been staying their for the season, but just pass through. We have maybe 2 to 3 big schools a year that bounce between Billingsgate/Long Point/Race Pt, and the rest are fish on a journey.

Alot of great thoughts, but really :huh:

fished it a few times last summer,youngest son fished it very hard with eels.he did the long walks and the all niters and got zip.seals are a big factor eating all bait close to shore.we used to fish the chatham inlet and the shifting sand there completly changed that fishery.guys in boats are getting the fish out in deeper off shore waters,surfcasters are having their problems.was up at the race fishing coast guard beach and was amazed by # of boats there on beach,years ago tin boats on beach ,now alot of big rigs on trailors waiting to go.

Mike can you expand on that? Do you have any theories as to what else may be at work? Because I am reluctantly falling into the seal "pit of despair" with many others. Although I have gone over other ideas like bait migration patterns, water temp, structure change...:bsod: I miss the better days.

Can't add much more than what I've already said. I would continue to keep an eye on things. The fish will show back up at some point. The cape is "yesterday" for me though. The drives are too long to justify and with the fishing what it is there's no incentive for me to return. I went through a new learning curve and had a couple slow years after leaving the cape. I returned to some old haunts, also found some new ones and can tell you there's just as many fish on this side of the bridges as there were on the cape if its fish you're after.
I can guarantee its not water quality, genetics (takes many generations to change this), or jack the ripper. The fish simply aren't using the place right now. It’s happened before.

While fly fishing Monomoy , I saw several different incidents of seals coming up right in front of me with big bass in their mouths. These were not bass i had hooked , they were free swimming bass and some were very good size.

to the main question , i think the idea that something more attractive to them is happening further out is probably the best answere I have heard.

All that ky jelly in the water is attracting seals :lama:

LMAO:rotf3::rotf3::rotf3:

Think about the Hudson River and how far north breeding/wintering stripers go in its upper reaches.
There is speculation that at one time that other rivers further north were natal rivers for striped bass, but those fish got over-harvested of dammed off.
If a large segment of the fish with a predisposition to a certain location are harvested, and if there is anything to a fishes' instinct to migrate to a certain place, then Numbskull's theory sounds pretty good. One thing's for sure - the Cape was a huge inshore fishery for a long time and now it is not.

While fly fishing Monomoy , I saw several different incidents of seals coming up right in front of me with big bass in their mouths. These were not bass i had hooked , they were free swimming bass and some were very good size.

to the main question , i think the idea that something more attractive to them is happening further out is probably the best answere I have heard.

This is disturbing. Saltheart is to be respected.

Unfortunately, there is another possibility to consider. The genetic trait for bass to feed inshore was punished severely by catch and kill fishing (be it recreational or commercial). The fish that feed offshore have been less pressured and lived to pass on their instincts. I have no proof that is what is happening, but would anyone be surprised if it is? Lu's point about there being enough bait for the seals to thrive on is a strong argument that the absence of bait is not the real issue.

Very possible
much as the seals have gone unchecked since there is no more bounty on them so now they have flourished since they have alot of food available(atleast it used to be till they ate all the flounder,sand dabs,skates,dogfish,bass, and so on) and there is no more bounty on them so they are free to shat all over our once pristine beaches.

Kinda ironic that Boston Harbor has fantastic fishing lately since they use the outflow pipe to take away the effluent and ruin the shoreline waters of the cape with all their polluted water :rtfm::conf::fishslap:

I think that has something to do with water quality close in at the beaches along with seal poop and one reason why sand eels are scarce from shoreline areas they once were abundant.


Seals
The outflow pipe
Mung
fishing pressure
lack of shoreline bait
fear of predation in close even at night
plenty of eats offshore so why would bass come in close

and the number one reason mentioned has been it's just a cycle
with seals being number 2.


I wish scientists would research this stuff
Don't the polititions know the economy is being effected out there by the overpopulation of seals?:fishslap:

I have also seen seals in the daytime eating bass that were not hooked by fishermen.
But most times at the rip it is a hooked bass that is easy prey for the fat seals. I usually got my blues in past them unless it was dark still.

were the cape beaches good during other perionds, like some of the 70s, when the fishing around the bunker schools was great? just curious.

also, do you guys think that large sandeel popluations are down in general or have just not been coming inshore as frequently in recent years? It seams like they've been missing or down in other areas too, not just the cape.

Think about the Hudson River and how far north breeding/wintering stripers go in its upper reaches.
There is speculation that at one time that other rivers further north were natal rivers for striped bass, but those fish got over-harvested of dammed off.
If a large segment of the fish with a predisposition to a certain location are harvested, and if there is anything to a fishes' instinct to migrate to a certain place, then Numbskull's theory sounds pretty good. One thing's for sure - the Cape was a huge inshore fishery for a long time and now it is not.

thats kind of like Ken Abrahm's theory on different populations of bass. same fish migrate to the same places each year. once they're gone, they're gone....

I love how people blame this on seals and think they should be killed. The seals NEED to eat those fish to survive. We go fishing because it's fun and we enjoy it, not because we have to or we will starve to death. If we humans hadn't raped the ocean of all the fish that used to be in it, we wouldn't see these seals showing up in these areas. They're a part of the food chain and natural cycle of the ocean, we are not.

I love how people blame this on seals and think they should be killed. The seals NEED to eat those fish to survive. We go fishing because it's fun and we enjoy it, not because we have to or we will starve to death. If we humans hadn't raped the ocean of all the fish that used to be in it, we wouldn't see these seals showing up in these areas. They're a part of the food chain and natural cycle of the ocean, we are not.

maybe so.....but don't forget who is at the top of the food chain of the entire planet....

WW, this is "Striped-Bass.com" not "Seals.com". Obviously you don't fish out there, and I guarantee you would be singing a different tune if your fishing grounds were almost renedered useless by a species of animal that's population has exploded and started to spread like a disease. I guess people who complain about zebra muscles are morons too. After all, they need to live in the water.

I never called anybody a moron. I just think the train of thought is funny. We overfished the places the seals would normaly eat, forcing them to find other habitats. Now they come to your neck of the woods, and ruin your fishing(which is debatable) so they should all be killed so you can catch more fish and have more fun.

bruce,

funny, i was talking to dave m not too long ago about this. he thinks it's largely cyclical too.

-b

Go gettem Mikey!
Still gotta nother 3 weeks till fishing gets good!
Later,
Rick
Vice President Sealz.com

What do you mean by "debatable" exactly? About the moron comment. I kind of picked up on some passive aggressive undertones in your first post and was just playing off of that. Honestly tell me you wouldn't get frustrated if a place you were fishing for years, all of a sudden became almost unfishable because of an animal that was never there before. If you can tell me that wouldn't bother you, I think you might be on the wrong site.

ooops, did I say that out loud

I'm just saying you don't know for a fact the reason that you've seen a decline in stripers is directly linked to seals. I agree with numbskulls theory, but none of us know for a fact. That makes it up for debate.

I would be upset if one of the spots I fished was being taken over by seals, but I realize that they need to eat those fish alot more than I do and instead of killing the seals, I'd try to find out why it was happening.

And I guess since I'm not down with the extinction of the seal species, I can't be a real striper fisherman according to you.

the fish are afraid of all the young plovers,terns,kites,oystercatchers,sanderlings lurking at the edge of the wash.:laugha:

the fish are afraid of all the young plovers,terns,kites,oystercatchers,sanderlings lurking at the edge of the wash.:laugha:


so am I .

Its a cycle ! notice there isnt much bait . was that scared off by the seals ? I doubt it . seals need to eat food that is going to be filling . and bait doesnt fit the bill even for my little frame .

I never once said I was down with the extinction of seals. Personally, I would like some type of hunting season like we have for deer in order to keep the population at a controlled level. I'm sure you are a fine fisherman Will. I'm just saying when you make statements like "I think the train of thought is funny" or "I love when people say......" which are definitely trying to imply something insultive, somebody's going to say something back at you. I guess we just have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm out. :deadhorse:

I'm out.

your out ?
playing baseball ?
out on limb ?
out of your mind ?
outside ?
your out of ? milk ? bread ? money ? beer ?
out of town ?
outsider ?
outrider ?
get out and stay out ?
out sourced ?
outhouse ?"
out of the house ?
in the outhouse ?
inside out ? outside in ?
are you outside looking in ? a TOM peeper ?
out take ?
take out ?
out there ? where ?
peace out
YOUR OUT
IM OUT
WE ARE ALL OUT
a babies arm holding an apple

Sense Ricky and Mikey started fishing there the fishing has declined


MUNG


Thats because they use all the new up to date gear they win at the TFCTFN and catch all the fish before you get the chance.:humpty:

maybe so.....but don't forget who is at the top of the food chain of the entire planet....

Mosquitos

thats kind of like Ken Abrahm's theory on different populations of bass. same fish migrate to the same places each year. once they're gone, they're gone....

That's a good theory and I buy into it. I don't think that's the case on the cape right now, but with some of the older classes of fish we caught, I believe that's exactly what happened.They either died of old age or were caught. I would call that scenario depletion/attrition, not genetics though. If it were genetic wouldn't the offspring of the missing fish return to take their place? It would be just like salmon. Who the %$%$%$%$ knows.:conf:

This used to be a decent day on the water. Pic is from 1990. My old 12' tin boat and 4 fish in the 40# class.The small one was in the low 20's just for scale. I took the fish right in front of highland light.

Mosquitos

silly me..I thought it was us humans...I'm just gonna stick to finding the perfect pair of loafers...

silly me..I thought it was us humans...I'm just gonna stick to finding the perfect pair of loafers...

I used to think that too....then it occurred to me, who's feeding off of us?

I used to think that too....then it occurred to me, who's feeding off of us?

That would be the oil companies but thats another thread!!

That old Wise great Striper in the sky :wiggle: finally got fed up with all the B.S. Cape beach closures for inane reasons... the jacked- up oversand Permit Fees with ever- decreasing legal territory to roam... and the petty exclusivity in who can & can't drive the beach S. of Nauset Inlet... etc., etc.

...Not to mention that Freak night- guard at the Nauset Lot having the nerve to bang on your windows if by some lunacy you decide you want to nap in your vehicle there between sessions at 3 AM in October! :smash: :bshake:

That Great one in the Sky finally answered & attacked these corrupt human forces ruining the unfettered & raw Striper paradise that the 90 miles of Outer Cape sand used to be for many thousands in love with the place...

BY sending a plague of Seals & barrenness under the surf- line besides... that would affect & punish those most that (ultimately) profited then the most $- wise by active beaches!

(i.e., the Politicos, & Townships & Feds & others that used to economically benefit most when beaches full of Stripers used to lure drooling Casters :drool: AND their families from far & away, ready to spend their hard- earned cash in pursuit! :fishin: )

These Politicos & Townies still have to live there, prosperous or not! We Casters have our mobility and can & will just chase Stripers & spend our cash in less restrictive & more productive spots/ Coasts elsewhere! :zup:

When all 90+ miles of Outer Cape are again legally drivable by Striper- hounds (in non- Summer bathing months at least...) THAT's when the "Great" Striper above will finally make the Seals disappear there, back to WAY North from whence they came... then the bait will return to the shallows... & the hungy Bass as they always did will again follow! :tooth: :uhuh:

The beach will come back. When is anyones guess. It has never ever been consistent in reality. The 70's, the 90's and a ray of sunshine here and there. To believe that it and has been great year after year after year is naive, you have to beleive and hope that each year will be the one

( and then hope nobody else finds out).

.

ya fat chance of that happening with the internet :tooth:

All that ky jelly in the water is attracting seals :lama:

HAHAHAHA----Vic, I just blew beer all over my mother computer!!!!hahahahahaaa


I grew up fishing the back side--Wellfellet to P-town--Its where I learned to fish from my father and the yokel locals----I lay in bed most nights and dream about how the fishin USED to be--how you could get out of the car and KNOW that you were gonna catch at least 1 fish over 30#'s and more often than not you would catch multiples-- This past year was THE first time in my life since I was born, that I did not make at least one trip down there---Over the years the fishing has steadily declined for all of these theories.
I personlly blame it mainly on the seal population that has grown out of control- I think a lot of it has to do with the Sh$t pipe too--more mung from it----I understand it is cyclical in ways, bait, natural migarting patters, but I will satnd by the theroy that it is mainly the seals, cause the problems really began with their resurgensce---Lets cut back on them some and see if it helps. I f it doesn't, no worry...they'll be back in short order....

Every night I am putting on my wetsuit and strapping on my corkers now, I tear up thinkin about the long lost memeories of waders, a t-shirt and a bucket of eels with the ability to walk MILES a night looking for fishin and not havin to worry about breakin off fish on rocks---or hopin one swims by---sorry...

http://www.retrojunk.com/details_commercial/499/
The world is changing and it effects every species

Something for the Truck.... :hihi:

TDF, where might one buy a sticker like that? It's the nutz!

I agree....NEED the sticker.

With the recent proliferation of bunker and other bait species further south, what would motivate a striper to leave that and continue to migrate north where bait fish might be harder to come by.
Might this trend have started with man's intervention in restricting limits on menhaden to commercial fisheries further south?

holy %$%$%$%$, a redlite sighting :tooth:

Its all back beach's fault :hihi:

TDF, where might one buy a sticker like that? It's the nutz!

New S-B.Com sticker I'll take a doz.

The seals make sense. Here is another theory that was pedestrian in 2006...
A surf-master mentioned that there is a line of lobster traps run the length of beach beyond casting distance. Cows come in from the deep, eat the lobsters, then go back and never make it into the surf zone. That was the theory, any way.

What I do know for certain is that fishing patterns are cyclical in nature. If they are not bitting on the outer cape...where are they biting?

-Fish360.

I think it is confluence of seals and cyclicality of bait patterns.

Most will tell you that the last few years has seen the pattern of the long ribbon of sand eels a few hundred yars offshore that happens for unexplained reasons, on and off, over time. Fish are out there on that bait....so why come in for less bait and potential of getting munched by a seal?

When that offshore sand eel pattern breaks, as it always has in the past, you'll see the bait back closer to the beach, and therefore more fish in the surf. But with so many seals, I'm not sure if can ever get all the way back to what it once was. :(

It may be due to the large amount of nutrient rich ground water now showing up in seepage due to old septic systems and large scale development
Approximately 80% of the nitrogen that enters the watershed comes from these private septic systems, and the remainder from other non-point sources. The effect is nutrient or nitrogen loading of the surrounding watershed above the critical load. Various species of plants and animals which inhabit estuaries cannot tolerate this level of nutrient loading, because it spawns a large amount of bottom algae, over-shading of eelgrass, and, ultimately, a depletion of oxygen in and an increase in the toxicity of the water. Each of these effects will send fish to other feeding grounds, while killing plants and animals that live on or in the ocean floor.
Could be the first signs.......

TDF, where might one buy a sticker like that? It's the nutz!

here ya go....all the seal clubbing paraphernalia you could want.......Just promise me you won't get the thong. :shocked:

http://www.cafepress.com/iclubseals

all good theories, but i'll go with the seals. their numbers have been steadily increasing, and i am one of those that was dedicated to the outer beaches. for now, it is not my first choice anymore. i find i'm looking to the inlets, or up inside more than i used to; but it's just not the same. people think i'm a savage when i tell them i hate seals, but.....bring along mr. whitey, and ring the dinner bell. i will never shed a tear when i come across a seal carcass with it's head missing, or a big chunk taken out of it.

Well 07 was the first year without a beach sticker(nauset) for me since the start of the seashore, since the town check in, since getting on the beach by going down Smith neck rd, since driving to nauset inlet by driving north by the nauset gatehouse insted of Callahan rd, sincehitch hicking with cans of gas , a battery,and a tool box as kids to unregistered junks left on smith neck rd. I wonder what theory the powers to be have on the missing fish. Oya i live just down the road a piece on the cape

I CAN'T IMAGINE A SEAL WOULD WASTE IT'S TIME AND ENERGY ON SMALL BAITFISH. I HAVE SEEN THEM POP UP IN 180 FEET OF WATER OFF THE RACE WITH GRILL SIZE FISH IN THEIR MOUTHS. PRAY FOR SHARKS,ORCAS,DISEASE WHATEVER. ITS A REAL SHAME WHAT HAS HAPPENED, I HAVE A FEELING THEY ARE JUST GOING TO KEEP SPREADING SOUTH AND WEST. SENDING A CASE OF LOUSISVILLE SLUGGERS UP NORTH TO OUR BLOOD SPLATTERED PALS ON THE ICE.

I think of it this way.....most of the fish on the outer beaches get there coming up the ocean side rather than through the canal.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I beleive that means they have to swim by 6,000 seals stacked up down around Monomoy & Chatham.

How surprising would it be that most of them turned around, or got eaten if they did't?

Opinions are like ass*oles, everyones got one but in reality the big picture here is a complex mix of alot of things I think.

I do know that a lot less people are fishing out there, especially after dark.

I do know if you work at it you will catch fish out there.

You can blame seals, waste water, the Great Striper in the sky, global warming etc but who really knows. Conjecture.

I believe that seals do eat more bait inshore than off and no bait means no fish but bait can still be found, especially at locations that hold large bodies of water behind bars at low tide. You have to adapt your methodology.

As long as the YOY indexes remain strong there will be no investigation by any scientific body.

I talk to a lot of charter guys and others who find fish all the time just off shore and have exeperienced it for myself.

I have also had a few nights in the last couple years where there were thirty guys on the beach plugging from dusk to 10pm and left and the fish showed heavy for several nights in a row at 2:30am til' dawn where I and a friend had them all to ourselves and would listen with sympathetic faces as truck after truck went by leaving the beach because "can you beleive how bad the fishing is here these days" to which we would reply "yeah it really sucks doesn't it?" knowning full well what was happening each night in the wee hours.

I beleive that most folks fishing the beach have really lost or maybe a lot of them never had the ability to read the signs or the the real desire to put in the effort and time that is required to learn the structure, get the rythym of the bass's use of the beaches. Some places they show for hours and some for as little as 20 minutes on a stage of the tide. You have to know this in order to capitilize.

It's a lot of work to read the structure, find the patterns of when they will come into a certain spot on what stage of what tide. Without this knowledge most beaches will always be looked upon as barren by those not willing to go the extra mile or sacrifice the warmth of the bed at home for wet sand.

And most importantly you have to believe that it will come back at some point. And believe me, they will but you won't hear it from me..

I do know that a lot less people are fishing out there, especially after dark.

I do know if you work at it you will catch fish out there.


Best responses yet. The best years I had out there were late 80's to about 1995. You remember those days don't you? There weren't any fish out there then either. Late 80's they were supposedly going extinct, and it took close to 10 years for all of the laymen to catch on. By the time all the "experts" emerged in the late 90's to early 2000's, it was almost over. For now.:angel:

Flaptail ,Slip and BM have fished them out.

Agreed for sure. Many don't know WTF they are doing, but aren't shy about complaining about the fishing. Even worse, the scarcity of fish has increased the liklihood that someone from the clueless crowd will arrive and cast right over your shoulder....'cause when you're catching and others aren't, naturally all the fish in the ocean are right in front of you and you alone. Frustrating. Has always happened, but happens even more nowadays up there. Folks who drove from far away to get there feels its their god given right to get a fish, no matter what.

For me, I'm still doing ok but size and numbers aren't what they were 5 years ago, and the constant battle to get the fish in before a seal crushes your fish five yards from the beach at High Head or Coast Guard is tough to take. All that said, they're there....it's just tougher, and not quite as much fun, as it once was.

A "good day" now is what a "average day" was back then.....at least for me and the guys I fish with.

Flap... points generally well- taken... (& agreed with to some extent...)


BUT: aren't you someone who has written tons in the last 2- 4 years lamenting that the Cape Backside Surf- fishing "isn't worth a damn anymore," or various variations of that theme? :rtfm:


Unless I'm wrong or misreading you... haven't you been as vocal (in print at least) as anybody, that indeed the Great Backside as a Striper surf haven, is but a shadow of it's past now? -- & hardly worth the effort to you personally anymore? (thus you've embraced skiff- fishing on the Bay- side, etc.?) :cputin: :huh:


Unless that was all a ruse then?... :scatter:


OR maybe this assessment here NOW is a ruse to get crowds away from your new pet Canal (& near-by) '07 & '08 surf- spots? :wave:


redlite... you & I dream the same memories, & dwell upon the same regrets about the Cape-- paradise in the mid- 90's for Striper surf- hounds indeed! (Slingah I know was there too!)

We need to share stories & memories & future Cape hopes over beers one day, my friend... & Cape brother- in- arms! I was there ... & did all the same things in waders & T- shirts you did... & yet still have more stories from then to make your arm- hairs stand on end even now during this long fishless Winter! :)

Item 1. I did, but not "tons" if you read them again I do say positive things now and again about the beach ( truro)

Item 2. Anyone who has ever fished a skiff on the north side knows that the beach is really a waste of time compared to what you can find there. But some of us still have that spark that makes us go back to the beach after a real fish fix in the skiff. It helps you get through.

Item#3. I only fish the canal 3 or 4 times a year now so that point is way, way off. ( The best thing that happened to the canal recently was the herring closure so I may plug it more this spring but really detest the crowds there and at night it isn't safe to leave your vehicle locked or not and being alone fishing is not advisable)

Hope that helps. BTW did they have the street fair on 56th this past Veterans day in November? I missed it this year.
Item#4 My new spots are good, real good but a pain in the ass to fish. I hate rocks.

Yep, no permits, just drive out on Nauset Beach, no four wheel drive unless you had a jeep and I didn't, have a camp fire, no problem. We had fish, fish and more fish and caught on with my Penns and my Utica Striper rods (you know the ones, they had wooden handles) but that was then and this is now and have things changed, with permits and fees up the whazo.

[QUOTE=WadingWill;572283]I never called anybody a moron. I just think the train of thought is funny. We overfished the places the seals would normaly eat, forcing them to find other habitats. Now they come to your neck of the woods, and ruin your fishing(which is debatable) so they should all be killed so you can catch more fish and have more fun.[/QUOTE

well i hunt for deer and i can tell you if theres too many deer it puts undo stress on the land and runins and desise runs ramped among deer. i would fully support a controled carfully reserched hunting season on seals with firearms only but we live in liberal lala land MA and uhaul deval and drunk ted kenndey wouldnt have it.... hell the liberals even runied trapping in this state.

point taken that we should conserve habitat, destroyed habitat is the main reason for species deciline but hunting,fishing and trapping licenses go to fund the purchase of wildlife managment areas where wildlife prosper.

seals and mung :(