To all you greenthumbs out there...I am looking for some advice on getting my lawn heathy with minimal work. It is not all that bad just needs a bit of help.
Should I check pH, then lime?? What about fertilizer and seeding bare spots?? Should I reseed?? ( I am ignorant to lawncare)
I do not want to dig up the lawn and start over...I'm just looking to make it a bit thicker and greener...
Thanks in advance

this year i am going back to Turfbuilder products by Scotts. there are cheaper alternatives but for years , 4 applications at $30 to $45 each 9depending on if there are weed controls added , etc) and the lawn looks great. i will also be liming my lawn this year as its been a while and soil in this artea tends to go acid with time.

scratching bare spots and reseeding speeds things up but if the lawn is healthy and the weeds controlled , the good grass will eventually fill in the bare spots. i think the only areas that really need scratching and seeding are the areas with moss growing.

Goose has a green thumb , maybe he can chime in .

Scotts does make the lawn look great quick, but my experience was the grass degraded at an accelerated rate when I stopped using their product.

I wonder if Scotts works faster because their fertilizer is 'finer' than the pebble sized fertilizer you find in other products like Lecso.

I lost the nice lawn battle, but have learned to love the color brown and aquired a taste for dust when I mow. :whackin:

I tried two different chemlawn type companies. They made a big improvement the first year , great lawn the second , on the wane the third and worse than when started the 4 th. I'm going back to Scotts. That worked great for about 30 years. I don't know why they work well. they just do.

I had same experience as Saltheart and went back to Scott's a couple years ago. Never looked back. Was told you should check Ph, but if you don't or can't, spreading lime will likely help and definitley won't hurt (i.e., remember-acid rain).

Before I got my ride around mower i considered blacktop. large upfront expense but the week to week maintenance goes way down! :)

i'd put some thought into the lasco (spelling?) products. they are cheaper than scott's and that's what all the golf courses are starting to use now. a relative used it last year with good results. i think scott's has a really big name and it's tough to get a lot of people to try new things.

as far as re-seeding or fixing bare spots, early spring or fall should be the go time for that. good soil is important. other than that i don't know how to test it or fix it. besides calling a company to dump 10-20 yard of fresh loom on your property.

You can get a cheap test for your soil to see if you need lime or take a sample to a county extension office. Get an organic fertilizer which releases nutrients over time as opposed to most chem types. (also causes less salt build up in the soil than the chem types ) Spread it as directed (usually spring and fall.) Get a bag of milky spore and spread it two years in a row for grubs (could be why you have bare spots). You also might try nematodes this season as they will immediately kill this years grubs. You might get 2 or 3 years where you don't have to do anything for grubs after you get those things established. Keep the grass about 3" long to out compete the weeds. If the bare spots are pretty big, you might till them and add a layer of compost and re-seed. Do these things and you will have a nice healthy lawn that is safe for you, pets, kids and anything else that goes in it. One of the main problems in our waterways and estuaries is lawn chemicals, so if you can live with a nice yard that has some clover and stuff mixed with the grass it is worth it. Also, if you have enough compost, you can spread a thin layer over the grass and not need any other fertilizer. Less fertilizers = more fluke :lama:

Matt, aside from agreeing with Karl, :D try the following. Rent an overseeder slicer. It will slice the soil and drop the seed so it comes in contact with the soil which is necessary for germination.

Only Scotts products i use are their seed as they have good mixes for sun or shade, have a high germination rate and very low weed content.

Find a %50 organic or %50 WIN fert a 2-1-1 ratio, it will tell you on the bag. example 16-8-8 or 20-10-10 or even 10-6-4 which is close. Agway has excellent ferts.

After you seed,apply #40 pelitized lime 2500 sg ft. and fertilize at full rate on bag.

If you don't like cutting use the same fert at 1/2 the rate Memorial Day - Fourth of July and Labor Day which will keep it green and thick. Next year around St Patricks day start your fertilizer program.

Fertilzing at any other time will just increase the growth of crabgrass and broadleaf weeds. Spot kill the weeds with a sprayer in mid June after your seed has had a chance to germinate and has been cut at least 3 times.

Get a broadcast fertilizer spreader it will make things real easy.


Don't overwater= fungus.

Scotts 4 step is the way to go. Supplement for problems as needed (grubs, insects fungus etc)Use their speedy green spreader too.

Organics are expensive, don't work most of the time and you have to put a TON of it on your lawn.


PS the 4 step is on sale now too..

i have never bought a Scott's lawn product ever! nor will i .

why ? because, yeah you can throw it in an easy spreader and roll that around your lawn.... but what your doing is encouraging shallow roots for your grass plants... and they're getting their intravenous fertilizer fix right on the surface plus that chemical fertilizer is screwing up the ecosystem big time with run off and killing off all the earthworms.

They are your natural composters that aerate (with their burrows) the lawn which allows for quick drainage when it pours cats and dogs getting that much needed rain water down to the deeper root zone and increasing organic matter in your lawn's soil.

~ (btw:wood ashes do the same thing as lime so use it instead of lime....) it's just not as strong....

what you want to do is to encourage root growth and your earthworm population simultaneously!

when your source of maple leaves
(never use oak as they have a root inhibitor (tanic acid) built right into them)
or any other non oak leaf pile that is fairly dry, you make long wind rows of them across your lawn and run them over with your lawn mower
shredding them into confetti or worm food. :btu:

[Rule of green thumb]:
feed your worms and let them feed your lawn]

the shredded leaves you spread around to bare spots (sprinkle with grass seed first) and this encourages worms to make a burrow nearby and then drag the leaf pieces each night directly into the ground increasing the organic matter into your lawn.

NOTE: organic matter or "humus" holds ten times it's weight in water...and Scott's fertilizer can't ever do that.

the other thing is to let your grass stay a little longer than usual by about an inch to help shade the ground thus conserving moisture and smothering out the weeds.

you can always cut it shorter when company is coming... but i never "ever" cut my grass "unless" it's just about to rain....and as your just finishing mowing..... it should be sprinkling rain already.

I almost sharpen my mower blade every other time i cut too , so each individual blade of grass is cut and not whacked which cuts down on grass mortality and dehydration.

lastly , if you print out my fishing calender and cut your lawn on the days marked just before it rains preferably before the full moon it will encourage growth big time...where as if your grass is growing like way to fast !!cut it on the days that are not marked to decrease growth ............so you'll have more time to fish.:musc:

btw: if you frequently see yellow shafted flickers on your lawn
probing it for bugs...you have grubs as its easier for them to get a meal there than banging on a tree... so , then you should first treat your lawn for grubs before starting your organic lawn care.

a truly healthy lawn should have night crawlers leaving earthworm casting piles of excreted organic matter on the lawn each evening.

they have the unique ability to alter the soils ph back to neutral 7.0
in this way. NATURE NEVER USES LIME :rtfm:

pour a 50/50 mix of bleach and gasoline on it, and then you will not have to touch it again all season, way more time to fish....

at least thats what bassmaster told me once... wish I could take his advise....

.

Or, tear it all up and put Astroturf down.

ibtw: if you frequently see yellow shafted flickers on your lawn
probing it for bugs...you have grubs as its easier for them to get a meal there than banging on a tree... so , then you should first treat your lawn for grubs before starting your organic lawn care.



So what is the best way to eradicate the grubs??? I have a flicker colony going on..

Matt, aside from agreeing with Karl, :D try the following. Rent an overseeder slicer. It will slice the soil and drop the seed so it comes in contact with the soil which is necessary for germination.

Only Scotts products i use are their seed as they have good mixes for sun or shade, have a high germination rate and very low weed content.



Get a broadcast fertilizer spreader it will make things real easy.


Don't overwater= fungus.
==========================================
In the old days ...everyone had a water filled or solid concrete
roller in their backyard or had a deal to work out a share program with a neighbor.... this was so they literally pressed the grass seed into the soil making sure it had firm contact with the soil which encourages germination... (extremely important)

now a days people spread it with a spreader and water it to death without hardly even scratching it in... or they cover it with hay...

and the hydroseed companies have a much higher germination rate because their grass seed is pre germinated in their tanks and its sprayed down with a green moisture holding substance too.

the coolest thing i ever saw while working on golf courses was the finger hole maker which had a bank of tubes jamming them into the turf then popping out the plugs which you had to rake up and deposit elsewhere. Then you had a grass surface with thousands of finger sized holes , so we'd spread compost on top and lightly rake that back into the holes to increase the organic matter instantly.

Exactly what worms do.......... :hs:

the funny thing or SAD thing was.... they had special chemicals to kill all the earth worms because a big old worm casting ball on the surface would stop or deflect a golf ball and that was a NO NO.

wow..alot of good stuff here..I am looking for the semi-easy way out....probaly go the Scotts route..
Squirrels have dug up the back yard pretty good the past couple of days??? are they eating grubs???

So what is the best way to eradicate the grubs??? I have a flicker colony going on..

other than rototilling to expose them to the birds you'll have to either use chemicals that target the grubs specifically or look for an organic grub killer...if there is such a thing. moles and shrews eat worms and grubs... typically keeping them in balance....

those grubs eat grass roots so they'll kill the lawn every time...
the grubs are there because Nature is out of balance in that lawn.

wow..alot of good stuff here..I am looking for the semi-easy way out....probaly go the Scotts route..
Squirrels have dug up the back yard pretty good the past couple of days??? are they eating grubs???

more than likely they're eating seeds or acorns buried by themselves
last fall or burried there by other squirrels who died or forgot where they burried them. If they are eating the grubs i'd be surprised.

Organic yards require much more in the way of materials (and work) and you will generally constantly be fighting weeds for the rest of your life. My good friend has a fully organic farm...talk about a weed (and bug) problem. Most "green" yards are loaded with weeds and when you ask the owners about them, they "just accept them". I have only seen a few really nice lawns that were organic and they were the exception, most look like %$%$%$%$.

As far as shallow root growth and run off these are the classic environmental excuses used to not fertilize your lawn. Grass is a rhizome...they HAVE SHALLOW ROOTS, its not a tree. Besides, the fertilizers today are a lot different then 20 years ago and they dissolve slowly over a period of weeks feeding the roots, the same way rainwater gets down there. I don't believe the shallow feed theory any more. And as far as run off and the eco damage it causes, I grant you if you dump a bag of scotts into a salt pond it is NOT good, but for most houses that don't have a run off issue directly into waterways, it is not a problem. It is spread out over such a large area and dissolves slowly. Most of the chemicals get fully absorbed by the foliage unless you have several inches of rain right after you put it down which would wash everything away, green or chem.

EVERY recent water test I have seen of salt ponds DIRECTLY points to Bird (and sometimes animal)Fecal Matter as the source for water nitrogen and not lawn firt. But try and have the birds removed from the ponds and you have the Feds on your back. the wackos come out and say it is the lawn fertilizers, sewers, housing to close to water...but when we have it fully tested and it is birds and you want the removed ASAP, they revolt! I know there are towns that had septic and run off issues but most of the major polluting problems are or have been resolved. In recent years the major nitrogen producer in ponds are geese and other waterfowl (IE cormorants)

I am using the chemicals...so I have time to fish.

Just cause it is "organic" doesn't necessarily means it any good.

How do you plan to get rid of insects? OK Milky Spore works well on grubs but it take several YEARS to get it going before it is effective. Put a bag of grub killer and and your done baby and your fishing that afternoon.


If you want to spend less, and have a much better looking lawn, go with the chemicals!! If you don't want to do it, have someone else do it.

Or, tear it all up and put Astroturf down.

Mike P :thats exactly what they are doing in California because of a lack of water... or they leave the turf and spray paint it green.

this is the first spring that i'll have the chance to work on it.

the first thing i'll do is to roto till it all in and start over because it's
half brown and half green...mostly dead...

then i'll rake it out ,seed it ,and roll it........

i don't believe in mono cultures and will have some clover seed
added in ..... as i like clover better than grass...

i don't spend much money on things other than compost or seed.

some area's i'll kill the grass and have just English IVY...instead
for extremely low maintenance.

Raven, you always amaze me with all that you know. Question: Have you ever paid for anything?lol
Slinga, tons of good advice. If you think you may have grubs you should treat them first or else all the time and $ will mean nothing. Go to where the brown(dead grass) meets the green grass, take a spade or shovel and lift the green grass, do this in 2-3 different spots....this is where you'll find'um, not in the dead spots.

Pick a day the ground is dry
cut the lawn a little lower
rake out all the dead grass/debree or rent a thatcher
add choice of lime & fertizer
(more fertizer is not good)

If you'd rather not fertize..you can spread compost by throwing it with a shovel in a wide motion.
If you don't have a compost pile you should start one. You can make it out of wood or buy a plastic one or just pile it.
Makes excellent soil for pots, planters, garden beds, spread on grass. Plus, no dump runs and a lot of kitchen scrap's get throw in too.

Raven, Question #2: do you have a job? You don't have to answer that.:)

I use cock a doodle doo. It is pelleted chicken manure. Works wonders. Just put it in the rotary spreader and spread it around. They also make a pre emergent weed treatment made from corn gluten. It greens up the lawn and inhibits seeds from sprouting. My grass is thicker and greener than my neighbors who use those lawn services. I can't beleive the guys I see working for those services, they pull out bags of fertilizer with no gloves, no eye protection, no mask, they tear open bags, make dust fly everywhere, spill it all over. Granted the stuff isn't nuclear waste, but I wouldn't want to be handling that everyday with out any skin protection.

I put the corn gluten down in late march, early april a couple times and then the chicken manure once a month If I can get to it.

Chicken manure works wonders on everything I have ever put it on. I get beautiful tomatoes, cukes, squash, berries etc and flowers. I got some compost made from a chicken farm once and put some on my veg beds. I had 14 ft tomato plants that year. I have a pic which I will try to find I took in mid july that year when they were about 8 feet tall. I had more tomatoes than I knew what to do with I gave shopping bags full to everyone I knew.

There is a company called gardens alive you can google. They make some great organic stuff. I have used thier veg foods and some mildew and insect control stuff. They sell lawn products too.

Happy gardening, I would love to look at my lawn ,but it is under a new 2" of snow here nw of boston. 2 years ago I was putting grass seed down the last weekend of march......

I got to thinking recently about that story about the drugs people are excreting out going through the sewer systems and back into the drinking water supply. If that tiny amount is showing up in water, how much chemical is getting in from the groundwater since people liberally spread all matter of chemicals by the bagful on lawns.

Hot top it, paint it green and go fishing ALL summer.

I am with Karl! I like my grass short, brown and burned by mid June......no mowing....its fishing I am going!:wave:

Just cause it is "organic" doesn't necessarily means it any good.


I agree, however when it comes to fertilizer an organic based N will be released slowly, especially in the spring when the soil temp is below 60deg as that is the temp needed for the microorganisms to break it down and make it available to the roots.

By using a %50 organic, the other %50 chemical will be released by water, not temp related, and green up your lawn early until the organic takes over.

Advantage, no quick lush growth from using a %25-%100 chemical fert that requires extra cutting and a faster growing grass which makes it more vulnerable to disease.

and chemical fertilizers are made from petroleum Chicken crap is great but its real high in nitrogen and tends to burn plants sometimes
where as rabbit is the coldest and won't burn anything.

goose i really try .....and have to be extremely careful now as to what i spend our money on.

today we paid for credit cards, excise taxes,car registration, dog license , food and more garden seeds that were 50% off... gasoline ...a new car jack so i can fix my car myself... and very little cash is left over for spending it on luxuries like chemical lawn fertilizer... thats easy to spread ....

i always go for fish emulsion anyway because it's organic... last time i checked it was $270 dollars for a 50 gallon drum.

So i have do everything the "do it your selfer way" with the least outlay of cash out of the "mortgage money" which usually involves heavy labor on my part rather than to pay someone else to do it for me.

As for a JOB i am still looking for my Niche Goose. Basically i am just a market gardener/farmer and jack of all trades but my farm just takes all of my time....So in the mean time i'm changing it back to the efficient way it used to be between 1850 and 1950 before they let it get all clogged up
with non productive ornamentals. i have ten years of work ahead of me at least. At that point i'll be 65....:cheers:

it's my Job to make this place PAY for itself essentially/Eventually.

The other thing i do is to find every way possible to save money by not having to spend it.... like cutting wood instead of buying heating oil i do on a daily basis rather than turn a thermostat dial.

Pave the whole thing.:eek5::eek5:

go to california

because over there they already did...

The simple way is usually the better way to live. You take all you can from your resources, after all thats what its there for. Work only makes you healthy and you save$ to boot.

Imo...everyone who has a yard should have a garden. Not only does it put fresh food on the table but the time spent working on it is carefree time that clear the head,, it like fishing in some ways. The more you partake in it the more you realize the earth doesn't need you....you need the earth. The more you realize this truth the more respect you have for life.

i am splurging today

bought $40.00 bucks of heating oil this morning...... wow!

and i get to turn the heat on....:happy: 28 degrees this mornin, chilly

after pancakes i'll build a fire

i enjoy fishing the most when i know that i'm harvesting
sunshine back home....

i couldn't live without a garden
anymore than i could live without ever fishing

I try to eliminate a few feet of lawn every year with more beds for shrubs and plants. I dig up grass and throw it in the compost pile, lay down wood chips and leaves and plant something. I am not a slave to a lawn and would rather have my acre planted with beds and only a small strip of grass to accent the beds. I don't want all the chemicals involved with having a nice lawn. Mine is mostly assorted grass and weeds but it is green and that is all I care about. No time for the lawn thing. Got to pick my battles.

I am with Goose. I enjoy diggin holes and picking weeds and planting things as much as fishing. Sick I know but I love it. Good clean exercise, and a feeling of accomplishment. Good hard physical labor never hurt anybody. In fact it would do most people in this country, especially young folks, a world of good. Get outdoors. P.

This thread inspired me to Lime today. Next is the Scotts and that's about it till it's time to cut. I keep it simple and I get a decent lawn. I have moss in spots but the spectic tank and leeching field do a great job keeping the majority of the back yard green! My Dad calls it Septi Lawn. :yak4:

I just signed up for tru-green chemlawn

I have a really tough time with crab grass the last 3 years and nothing I do is working it just gets worse.

They promised me it would go away or they would do it for free

the cost of them doing there service is less than I can buy the Scotts system 4

I have to buy System 4 twice because my yard is so big, that would be 300 bucks, plus all the time I spend spreading it, pulling up weeds, and crabgrass. it is 8 applications at 10 for the first and 35 each after that. comes to 255, next year it will be 280

I told him I will try it for a year if it doesn't improve I will try Lesco products, but I think thats what they use

There's been some discussion on using Milky Spore to control grubs, so here's WIKI:

After researching this on the web, the consensus of the extension programs is that Milky Spore controls Japanese Beetle grubs only. Various vendor websites claim that it controls the other grub species as well, but I have not found cooperative extension research that confirms this.

http://www.ladybug.uconn.edu/WhiteGrubs.htm

In my little corner of South County, RI, 90 % of the grubs are Oriental Beetle. Maybe 4 % are Asiatic Beetle, and 4 % are Japanese Beetle, and 2 % covers the rest.

I'd like to try Milky Spore to control the Oriental Beetles, but I can't find any scientific research to back it up. If someone knows of a scientific study of Milky Spore and Oriental Beetles, I would like to hear about it.

Yeah I would never pay that much, I don't even mulch every year, I just turn it over. if it wasn't under 300 I wouldn't even think of it.

I just signed up for tru-green chemlawn

I have a really tough time with crab grass the last 3 years and nothing I do is working it just gets worse.

They promised me it would go away or they would do it for free

the cost of them doing there service is less than I can buy the Scotts system 4

Do you have a dog or kids that use your yard or house? My wife is a vet and one thing they look at in veterinary medicine is something about \a significant correlation between the chemicals they use in chem lawn type companies and some sort of carcinoma or other cancer (not sure) in dogs. Also have read studies that the residues from chemlawn can be found in carpets for up to 6 years after use is stopped. They have also found substantial amounts on toys and other kids things inside homes.


...as far as organics don't work that is fundamentally not true. Yeah they don't work if you want your lawn to look like astroturf. You would have to allow for some dandelions and clover and other things that bees and stuff require. Once you do chemicals everything in the soil is dead and you only have non-native single species of grass. The thread started with advice for a "healthy lawn." Chemically induced grass only yard that dies as soon as the yearly chemical applications stop aren't really healthy by any definition in my very humble opinion :gu:

you are a very Wize man...

and that was very well spoken...


most chemicals used for fertilizers
are made from petroleum products

and all these chem lawn companies could give
a rats ass about the environment

i read not to many years ago about a guy that went walking barefoot
over his most gorgeous in the neighborhood lawn
and then became a total vegetable having to be spoon fed
in an institution like a baby....essentially...life over...

they are as bad as the tobacco industry if not worse

soil is not comprised of just this brown stuff thats dead
to begin with.... theres thousands of micro organisms
in there all working 24 hours a day...

just like drinking water....it's not pure H2o it's got
all kinds of life forms in it.... it's more alive than inert..

everyone is trying to make their yards into this
award winning homes and gardens magazine cover
and soon they are are addicted to using all this crap
and it smells and is all over the garage...bottles of this
boxes of that....gooey sticky..yucky...
it drives me insane...to see all that waste of money

when i walk thru home depot or lowes to get some hardware
or maybe a piece of plywood... i walk by all that crap...
always have and always will..

i used to buy bird seed for the outdoor birds at walmart
on occasion...then they relocated it all next to the malithion
and all these other NASTY chemicals and i said NO F-ing way
do i want to have to smell those fumes and breath it in.......

-just to go get birdseed :hs:

so i complained to management
they didnt give a damn so i no longer shop there except
for an occasional quart of oil or brake fluid maybe

we are all walking bags of chemicals...

especially those manufactured in our brains... which are electro-chemical in nature

each subsequent generation has become ever so much more
intolerant to the levels of pollution or sensative or allergic
to the over abundance of chemicals used for everything now

those all end up either in the atmosphere and then get rained back
down on us or the get into the soil or the water...

and eventually: will affect our lives one way or another

thanks Raven, that may be the first time someone has referred to me as wise without a 3 letter reference to a back side.

even though i am not a big fan of Seals

the thought of a newly born pure white seal
1 minute old.......
laying on the ice in the artic where every thing seems so clean
and abundant

already has pesticides in its system....

that has changed my thinking in a major way...

the Earth and it's inhabitants have reached the saturation level
for toxins and pollutants... so it's everyones responsibility

to figure just how they can personally make a difference

besides recycling newspaper or soda cans or plastic

it's about doing things the old fashioned way before
companies like Monsanto came about and made us addicts
that have to use their crap...just to grow grass...

when DDT was outlawed in America the company just sold it
to South America and south America sells produce to America

:hs:

and i understand the fishermans hatred of the animal
and it's perfectly justified

i'd go seal clubbing and splatter seal blood all over the ice any day
and leave them for the polar bears and artic fox to eat...

the point i was trying to make was about individual responsibility
when it comes to the obsession we americans have over the perfect lawn.

I used to watch this one idiot...walk out to his lawn every time a leaf
fell off his tree and pick that solitary leaf up over and over and over.

that's absolutely INSANE

not that i care really, but one of the reasons the Arabs hate us
is because of our insanity over growing grass..
and i can understand why......
i hate the stuff actually except for the fact it cools things down
and makes good compost.,& .mulch .........golf courses Suck!

i'd rather have IVY or clover or vegetables on my lawn instead.

but the fact remains using herbicides, insecticides, and other chemicals
is getting into everything even the nations children the same as anti depressents
are finding their way back into the drinking water in minute quantities
from flushing them down the magic toilet....bye bye pills...yeah right..
.like Arnold Swarzenager they are laughing at us saying "I'll be Back"

Now they are in the fish downstream ... too....

Arab's are jealous.
You make some very good points but its a little unrealistic. Some of the stuff you do is unconventional to say the least....cutting grass only before rain or wood ashes on grass etc. Don't get me wrong, just yesterday I spread ashes based on your advice only because I have it. I believe organic fertilizer cost 3 times more then the regular. There are lots of things people can do and should do to make this place better. IMO. Useing less would be fine, rather then going cold turkey.
I knooow I knooow ....you need every inch of your property to grow food because of the rising food costs.
How do you cut your grass...with a sickle?:D

Arab's are jealous.
You make some very good points but its a little unrealistic. Some of the stuff you do is unconventional to say the least....cutting grass only before rain or wood ashes on grass etc. Don't get me wrong, just yesterday I spread ashes based on your advice only because I have it. I believe organic fertilizer cost 3 times more then the regular. There are lots of things people can do and should do to make this place better. IMO. Useing less would be fine, rather then going cold turkey.
I knooow I knooow ....you need every inch of your property to grow food because of the rising food costs.
How do you cut your grass...with a sickle?:D

i have an acre of grass to mow at present ( the riding lawn mower cost 150 bucks used) and i hope to keep reducing it like what Paul said in an earlier post... actually , when i said use wood ashes i was referring to using them in the garden as opposed to using them on the lawn... Lime can burn if over applied but ashes are a little less corrosive to plants...

I don't need every inch of land to grow food....but i'm hoping to do it as a business after i have satisfied all of our food requirements....i'm still eating frozen veggies from my last garden at my former residence ....remember the comment you made ...i believe it was you... saying you've got enough food to feed an Army...

Perhaps what i do IS unconventional Goose but i am Scottish and thus ultra thrifty by necessity... some people will walk by a dropped penny and i do too. I won't walk by a good washer or a bolt....and it goes in the drawer of spare parts for that rainy day.

Do you have a dog or kids that use your yard or house? My wife is a vet and one thing they look at in veterinary medicine is something about \a significant correlation between the chemicals they use in chem lawn type companies and some sort of carcinoma or other cancer (not sure) in dogs. Also have read studies that the residues from chemlawn can be found in carpets for up to 6 years after use is stopped. They have also found substantial amounts on toys and other kids things inside homes.


No kids or Dogs, I have had second thoughts but I am going thru with it for this season anyways

you might think it is... :hs: nope

but they charge you an arm and leg for it
when all the materials are essentially free

you take one part ground up leaves
run them over with the lawn mower
(just dont use oak leaves)
one part grass clippings
one part soil to introduce soil bacteria
(you can buy activator in a can too)
and one part manure of choice
Horse manure is always free !!!


you start the pile on top of some sticks to
allow air into the pile

then you make a 6 inch layer of each material
in the same order over and over until you
have a pile thats about 4 feet square by four feet high

you keep it watered so it's damp
like a squeezed out sponge
you can also insert a short length of perforated
drainage pipe in the center to add extra O2
and this makes the pile heat up quick

within 2 to 3 days it should be steaming
after four - six days if you shoved your hand
into the center of the pile you'd get burned
it gets THAT hot ok 160 -180 degrees

in about ten days to 12 days
the pile will reduce in size due to decomposition
by about 1/3 .... and then start to cool off

this is where you pitch fork the pile into
a second pile next to it trying to put the
outside to the middle so it'll heat up a 2nd time


water lightly (squeezed out sponge remember)
then you watch for steam again
and at the end of two- three weeks the pile
should be about half the size now
(it might take a full month )

this is where you can sift out the finer stuff
through a 1/4 inch mesh screen and save the
the coarse materials for the next pile
if done right it should smell kinda sweet

you spread this on the lawn before a rain
or set up the sprinkler.....and then watch out
because your lawn will grow like magic beans

end of lesson :wavey:

We get our compost free from our sewage treatment plant in town

Back to Lawn Care -


I have a newly seeded lawn from late last season. I currently have A LOT of Holidays in my lawn...ie: bald spots.

What's the best way to get it to FILL back in?

Re-seed those areas?

Roll out those areas?

I imagine I'll have to drop some more Loom too....

any thoughts ?

What 'I' would do is have someone go there and check it out.
Ooor. If those spots have been washed out hit them with loam, plenty seed and starter fertilizer...don't forget to roll it. You don't need a spreader, throw the seed so it falls through your fingers while throwing, same with starter. Then keep moist. Home depot also sells easier products that are used to fill in spots,, just water. I have seen good results but never used it.

you have to scratch up those areas re seed and the roll it out again

another trick is to borrrow sod from the edges - you cut six inch strips with a very sharp edger and lay them across the bare spots
depending on how big they are of course , until they are filled in

and where you borrowed the grass it will fill itself back in fairly quick
if you keep that edge watered

but you always borrow from the areas where the grass seems to grow the easiest and lay it down where the grass seems difficult to grow.

......another trick is to borrrow sod from the edges - you cut six inch strips with a very sharp edger and lay them across the bare spots.......



That was my plan for the larger spots, I have areas that I'll be mulching, and from those areas is where I'll pull my carpet from to fill in the big spots....but with the mini-bald spots ALL OVER the place, I guess I'm sprinkling loom and seed.

The steps I ass/ume I'll be taking.

1. spread the loom/fertilizer
2. seed the fertilized loom
3. roll the seeded fertilized loom
4. water the seeded fertilized loom
5. shoot all birds that land on watered seeded fertilized loom


Am I even remotely close???

but depending on the depth of the loam your about to add.....
you could sprinkle some grass seed down first and cover it
lightly with the loam and then roll it and sprinkle a little grass seed on top too....

the main objective is to get the grass seed in firm contact with the soil
and not have the sprouting grass seed dry out

for best germination you want to replant grass seed like 7 days
before the full moon which forces the water into the grass seed
via hydroscopic pressure ( it's highest at the full moon)
to achieve the highest germination rate possible :btu:

Is it too early in the season to do it now, should I wait for the fullness of the moon or warmer temps, Or just get err' done ASAP?

Also, When should spead the Lye on the Lawn??


Thanks in advance ~

even though the last expected spring frost is approximately
on May 15th grass is very hardy and is turning green underneath wet spring snow showers and loving it....

Notice how its raining now......the moon just passed thru Pisces..

the best time to start anything new and have it last is always when the moon is in the sign of Taurus
which will be this Sunday starting at around 9:00 PM
and it'll go til monday until 9:00 PM .

So do it this sunday right after the rain clears out...then you'll have
6 days before the full moon which is just perfect...
Note: this is to ensure germination of the grass seed and not
expecting it to be an inch tall...

i have already planted peas outside and they'll push up through a inch of snow like nothing happy with the extra watering...

grass is kinda like peas....in that, you generally can't give them to much water....

the rule of thumb when planting seeds of any kind is...

have the soil depth
no more that twice the thickness of the seed when covering it...
which is why many lawn people sprinkle it on top and hope for the best...

but then your germination rate is cut in half "sometimes"
plus the sparrows have a field day

...so you can safely go with 1/8th to 1/4 inch depth
of top soil or loam on top of seed and it'll still sprout fine...

when its rolled with a roller
there's less tendency for it to dry out before the roots get a chance to make a foot hold,

because the firm contact with the soil on top of it is making contact "tightly" and prevents that.

they sell ph meters for like 10 bucks at most nursery outlets

you push it in and it reads the ph

determine the ph first...

Let it all die, more time for the new boat! Less care too! Saves water, no chemical applications, thats really being "green" in my book!

do it the BIGFISH way

and............. http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c66/ravenob1/sign-GUYS/KYL.jpg

this is a great thread...thanks all.
quick question....how do I seed bald spots I'll get some loam & seed)
AND prevent crabgrass???

this is a great thread...thanks all.
quick question....how do I seed bald spots I'll get some loam & seed)
AND prevent crabgrass???

Scotts 202932 Step 1 - Starter Fertilizer for Seeding (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=step+one+scotts+seeding+fert&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7GGLL_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=2035677228004533013&sa=X&ei=BcGfTdGkEITL0QHsw_j3Bw&ved=0CC4Q8gIwAw#)

step one for seeding and halts for crabgrass.
best job related seminar of my winter was with the folks from Scott/Ortho/Miraclegrow..they know green.

this is a great thread...thanks all.
quick question....how do I seed bald spots I'll get some loam & seed)
AND prevent crabgrass???

Loam and seed it when the grass grows you need to mow it at least 3 times before you put step 1 down. Step 1 is a pre immergent and will stop the growth of grass.

you grab the friggan shovel and with your right leg dig the crab grass out and throw it on the drive way to bake it dead.

the rest you stuff it back in the hole :rotf2:

Scotts 202932 Step 1 - Starter Fertilizer for Seeding (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=step+one+scotts+seeding+fert&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7GGLL_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=2035677228004533013&sa=X&ei=BcGfTdGkEITL0QHsw_j3Bw&ved=0CC4Q8gIwAw#)

step one for seeding and halts for crabgrass.
best job related seminar of my winter was with the folks from Scott/Ortho/Miraclegrow..they know green.
thanks Karl.....just what I was looking for....something for both

Don't put fertilizer with crabcrass preventer (Halts) down until 1st or 2nd week of May! I have done this for over 20 yrs and have no crabgrass in my lawn. Crabgrass doesn't sprout until ground temp reaches about 65dF plus the barrier only last 90 days, so if you put it too early you will have late season problems. Additionally the Halts chemical barrier should not be broken, i.e. by raking!

Put down a general fertilizer now to get lawn going and Halts in about 6 weeks. I buy 2 bags of Scotts Winterizer: one for Fall and one for Spring. Mine went down 3 weeks ago!

Don't put fertilizer with crabcrass preventer (Halts) down until 1st or 2nd week of May! I have done this for over 20 yrs and have no crabgrass in my lawn. Crabgrass doesn't sprout until ground temp reaches about 65dF plus the barrier only last 90 days, so if you put it too early you will have late season problems. Additionally the Halts chemical barrier should not be broken, i.e. by raking!

Put down a general fertilizer now to get lawn going and Halts in about 6 weeks. I buy 2 bags of Scotts Winterizer: one for Fall and one for Spring. Mine went down 3 weeks ago!

man this lawn chit is for the birds....I guess you can't have new seed without crabgrass????? what am I missing here...:jump1:

man this lawn chit is for the birds....I guess you can't have new seed without crabgrass????? what am I missing here...:jump1:

New seed is OK now as it will have more than enough time to germinate before crabgrass season in about 5 weeks.

New seed is OK now as it will have more than enough time to germinate before crabgrass season in about 5 weeks.

thanks Phil....I know what you mean about the crabgrass, late summer and it starts.....now I'm really pissed.. it looks like the 2 rhodys I planted are dying...ugggghhhh...those weren't cheap

Fools....all fools!!! They are weeds.....let the sun burn it brown and enjoy more fishing time!!:smash:

Fools....all fools!!! They are weeds.....let the sun burn it brown and enjoy more fishing time!!:smash:

lol....your funny :rotf2:

Fools....all fools!!! They are weeds.....let the sun burn it brown and enjoy more fishing time!!:smash:

I don't water and grass goes brown (I hope) July/August! Comes back in September.

Use Turf Builder 4 times a year of the 4 use the weed and feed varieties twice. Use grub control in the spring. cut it every week. water it every 2 days unless it rains. dethatch and aerate it every 4 to 5 years , overseed when you aerate it. Lime it as needed , determine that by soil tests.

If you do all this you will have a lawn so beautiful and healthy you will love the look of it but hate it when it grows so well you need to cut it every 4 days instead of once a week! :)

Fertilize, lime, water, primp, fuss and then (provided you do not own a well) your grass looks great for about 4 weeks then.......WATER RESTRICTIONS!!! So whats the point???? As brown as mine will be.....and I spent no time fussing over mine! All that money and time out the window!:wall:

I live in a designated lawn war zone.

If'n ya can't eat it
ferget about it :soon:

Don't know if it grows in New England but when I lived in VA I had a Zoysia lawn, turned brown in the winter and started to green when the dogwoods bloomed. Choked out absolutly everything else and the hotter and drier it got the better it looked. A little fertiliizer once a year and presto. Grows best in sandy soil...

zoysia comes in plugs and is popular out west

Fire Belly Organic Lawn Care | Natural Lawn Fertilizers | Organic Fertilizer (http://www.firebellylawncare.com/)

but here is an organic way to fertilize your lawn

notice the jugs of corn gluten

they rid your lawn of dandelion which is an indicator
that your soil ph is too high like 7.5 instead of 6.5

I live too close to the water to put stuff down on my lawn...which sucks because my lawn looks like crap until about mid june....

rosa ragosa (rose hips) will grow there

Won't be long before needs mowing!

Won't be long before needs mowing!

Rocky would be proud!!!

Won't be long before needs mowing!

set your mower height at 4 inches

set your mower height at 4 inches

Set high, no bagging, mulching to feed the earthworms are return nutrients to soil, cut about every 4 days once the ritual starts..

If the height gets away (miss a day or 2), better to cut 2X with an hour rest to let the 1st cut clippings partially dry in the sun before run 2. I find this is actually quicker/less energy than trying to bag the clippings.

whens the last time you sharpened that blade? eh watson?

longer grass out competes crabgrass. No need for those friggin chemicals. All yer doing is helping dupont and making the marshes less habitable for flounders and stuff.

Whatever I do - do the opposite.

whens the last time you sharpened that blade? eh watson?

2X per season!