that should grab...

OK, so this gets thrown around a lot, many lefties whine that they're unfairly labled when they do stupid stuff that undermines their own country...go figure

I'll go first, but I should clarify the fact that I have no issue with anyone of any race, creed, color or belief or previous residence somewhere else in the solar system that comes to the good ole' USA through our generous "legal" channels and creates a life for themselves and their future generations abiding by our laws and traditions. I believe that while we are a society of vast differences individually, what binds us is and adherence and belief in the principles that were discussed in the Federalist papers, put down in our Constitution and reinforced in the Bill of Rights, these guiding principles establish rights and responsibilities of individuals and more importantly limit the role of government over individuals, I do not believe that these are living and breathing documents, they are the pillars of our society structure meant to stand the test of time and tinkering by those intending to erode their importance.


For me it's simple..black and white some would say, I consider anyone who demonstrates a political ideaology that more closely resembles Marx and Mao than that of Madison and Adams to be at their core Unpatriotic and Anti-American, might be a little controversial for some, but hey, we're just talkin', right? The two just simply just can't co-exist and the former has been an utter failure everywhere it's been tried and the latter has resulted in great progress and unparalleled advancement for the entire globe...I know that's fogotten a lot....but it's true...

one of our two predominant parties is run and funded by folks that would love to shove Marxism down our throats and fundamentally change this country, they'd prefer to rip up our founding documents and create their own new and improved version of the Communist Manifesto, this time it will work because it will be better funded and smarter, more "ENLIGHTENED" folks will be implementing it ..and I'm tired of the smug looks and arrogant comments from those that continually subvert this nation, from the politicians that swear to uphold the laws of their respective states and country and then attack those that operate in that capacity(Ted Kennedy, John Kerry), governors that refuse to obey federal laws and declare "sanctuary cities" and operate their cities like their own little social experiment, American citizens that trave abroad and use their status to trash their own country and prop up thugs that seek out demise...:realmad:


so where do you draw the line....it will be drawn in this election

one of our two predominant parties is run and funded by folks that would love to shove Marxism down our throats and fundamentally change this country, they'd prefer to rip up our founding documents and create their own new and improved version of the Communist Manifesto, this time it will work because it will be better funded and smarter, more "ENLIGHTENED" folks will be implementing it ..

um.. considering that the fascists in the white house now have already started tearing up the constitution and have taken alway a few of our rights that our founding fathers gave us, I doubt there will be much left in '09 for Obama to rip up....Remember what Ben Franklin said "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1EXKLVgEx0

have a nice day :spin:

I think you may have confused nationalism with patriotism.

In this country you have the right to question your government by utilizing your freedom of speech and freedom of press. I am pretty sure Madison and Unger, oops I mean Adams, would agree with that.

Blindly following a corrupt leader has alao proven to be an utter failure time and time again.

Signed,
An independent

So your argument is that we have been and are today standing on the principals that formed this nation, and that this election represents a potential move away from that position?

-spence

So your argument is that we have been and are today standing on the principals that formed this nation, and that this election represents a potential move away from that position?

-spence

bwaaa haaa haaaa.... :jester:

our pricipals went out the window the moment we went into Korea. For that was the first war that we fought that was based on 'ideals'

I'm sure that you were pretty upset and consider the current admin. un-American when Bush admitted recently that he lied previously when he had said that he thought the war was going fine even though he thought otherwise b/c he felt the American public couldn't take the truth.

In addition, his hiring actors to pose as reports in press confrences and lob questions at him, his producing fake news releases to promote his idea how the war was going, paying a conservative to go on tv and promote his educations initiatives, his having former military officers go on tv and act as analysts after receiving talking points from his lackeys must also make your blood boil that Bush did all he can to undermine many of the principals this country was founded on.

um.. considering that the fascists in the white house now have already started tearing up the constitution and have taken alway a few of our rights that our founding fathers gave us, I doubt there will be much left in '09 for Obama to rip up....Remember what Ben Franklin said "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.


I'd love to know which liberty you feel you have personally lost?? Hold on, you aren't one of those guys claiming to have seen Cheney behind the wheel of a utility truck outside your house with Bush hanging from a telephone pole listening in to your conversations with a 1-900 hottie are you??? These "facists" are constantly accused of trampling the rights of average americans and there's never any evidence...kinda like all of the disenfranchised voters that are claimed whenever the Repub.'s win an election and then never materialize... just talking points...looped over and over till it becomes part of the conversation...no basis in reality....real loss of liberty will result from government run everything, which is what both dem candidates are proposing and deeply hold as a belief system...don't fret Comrade...you have a 50/50 chance!!!:hidin:

For me it's simple..black and white some would say, I consider anyone who demonstrates a political ideaology that more closely resembles Marx and Mao than that of Madison and Adams to be at their core Unpatriotic and Anti-American,


I thought I was clear....maybe not....
I get the impression that there's a lot of support for Marx and his vision out there:jester:

For me it's simple..black and white some would say, I consider anyone who demonstrates a political ideaology that more closely resembles Marx and Mao than that of Madison and Adams to be at their core Unpatriotic and Anti-American
You're dodging my question.

By the way, I find your statment above to be quite anti American.

-spence

um.. considering that the fascists in the white house now have already started tearing up the constitution and have taken alway a few of our rights that our founding fathers gave us, I doubt there will be much left in '09 for Obama to rip up....Remember what Ben Franklin said "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.


I'd love to know which liberty you feel you have personally lost?? Hold on, you aren't one of those guys claiming to have seen Cheney behind the wheel of a utility truck outside your house with Bush hanging from a telephone pole listening in to your conversations with a 1-900 hottie are you??? These "facists" are constantly accused of trampling the rights of average americans and there's never any evidence...kinda like all of the disenfranchised voters that are claimed whenever the Repub.'s win an election and then never materialize... just talking points...looped over and over till it becomes part of the conversation...no basis in reality....real loss of liberty will result from government run everything, which is what both dem candidates are proposing and deeply hold as a belief system...don't fret Comrade...you have a 50/50 chance!!!:hidin:

The government if it sees so fit, can tap my phone, read my emails, intercept my mail at a drop of a hat if it wants to without approval from a court. If questioned, the goverment can simply say, "f-you.. its classified" and go on its merry way. That is a huge right to privacy violation. Whats next?? no more search warrents? I read that police in Mass have been going to peoples houses and 'asking' the owners if they can look around for guns.. soon they wont have to ask.
If you ask me, the goverment is so concerned about gun control because there could be a revolution in a few years if our current problems are not fixed.. on and most of our problems have not been created by our goverment, but they certianly have been fertilized and given good sunlight by them :D

For me it's simple..black and white some would say, I consider anyone who demonstrates a political ideaology that more closely resembles Marx and Mao than that of Madison and Adams to be at their core Unpatriotic and Anti-American,


I thought I was clear....maybe not....
I get the impression that there's a lot of support for Marx and his vision out there:jester:

So what you're saying is that you don't support any of the troops in Iraq or Afghanistan if they are registered Democrats, because they are supporting a Marxist Ideaology and therefore are Unpatriotic and Anti- American.

Its that Black and White for you huh?

Scottw - Marxism is pretty widespread. I majored in Econ at UMass and it was the pervasive (sic) thoery in the department. What I'm saying is that Marxism is pretty popular and state-sponsored. Don't worry about the elitism. While it makes you feel bad, it also makes it nearly impossible to win a national presidential election, so it all evens out in the end.

Ben Franklin was being short sighted, but considering the times in which he lived I think he can be forgiven. There is in inherent inverse relationship between safety and liberty. We would be more free without police, for instance. Maybe all that time in France clouded his judgement.

I agree, by the way, that we need to reduce the size of government in order to make us all more free. You think Hillary or B. Hussein Obama are going to do that?

Nebe - some people feel that the founding fathers put the Second Ammendment in the constitution as a "doomsday" clause. I hope those homeowners tell the police to go to hell.

I read that police in Mass have been going to peoples houses and 'asking' the owners if they can look around for guns.. soon they wont have to ask.
If you ask me, the goverment is so concerned about gun control because there could be a revolution in a few years if our current problems are not fixed.. on and most of our problems have not been created by our goverment, but they certianly have been fertilized and given good sunlight by them :D[/QUOTE]


and the "govenment" in the socialist republic of Massachusettes is run by......DEMOCRATS....Coupe de Ville Patrick, protege of Barak Obama...this is too easy!!!!!

[QUOTE=The Dad Fisherman;586391]So what you're saying is that you don't support any of the troops in Iraq or Afghanistan if they are registered Democrats, because they are supporting a Marxist Ideaology and therefore are Unpatriotic and Anti- American.

not as long as they follow orders....but I would say that if they are deeply steeped in Marxist theology, they might be fighting on the wrong side....I'm guessing there are very few...

not as long as they follow orders....but I would say that if they are deeply steeped in Marxist theology, they might be fighting on the wrong side....I'm guessing there are very few...

That sounds pretty "Gray" to me....I thought it was Black and White. If they support a Marxist Ideaology they are Unpatriotic and Un-American....Period.

ScottW, sounds like your views are in the minority of what most Americans believe and perhaps you should re-examine them as they infact, may be "Un-American".

HAPPY MAY DAY COMRADES!!! if i'm a minority then I'm gonna be looking for some bennies......I would never assume to know what "MOST AMERICANS" believe...that would involve a pretty extensive poll, I do laugh when I hear politicians and pundints suggest that they know what most of America thinks and believes...and I have seen the electoral maps post-election...pretty telling

That sounds pretty "Gray" to me....I thought it was Black and White. If they support a Marxist Ideaology they are Unpatriotic and Un-American....Period.

I'm trying to think of history's great Marxists and their lasting contributions to our planet? Can you name a few??

I'm trying to think of history's great Marxists and their lasting contributions to our planet? Can you name a few??


oh...oh. I know some contibutions!!!

Starvation.
Massive food lines.
Crumbling Infrastructure.
Economic Stagnation.
Lack of scientific and social growth.

Look at these bastions of political strength that adhered to a Marxist philosphy.:

"The following countries had governments at some point in the twentieth century who at least nominally adhered to Marxism: Albania, Afghanistan, Angola, Benin, Bulgaria, Chile, China, Republic of Congo, Cuba, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Ethiopia, Grenada, Hungary, Laos, Moldova, Mongolia, Mozambique, Nepal, Nicaragua, North Korea, Poland, Romania, Russia, the USSR and its republics, South Yemen, Yugoslavia, Venezuela, Vietnam. In addition, the Indian states of Kerala and West Bengal have had Marxist governments. Some of these governments such as in Venezuela, Nicaragua, Chile, Moldova and parts of India have been democratic in nature and maintained regular multiparty elections, while most governments claiming to be Marxist in nature have established one-party governments."

For me it's simple..black and white some would say, I consider anyone who demonstrates a political ideaology that more closely resembles Marx and Mao than that of Madison and Adams to be at their core Unpatriotic and Anti-American,


Black or White....Yes or No.......You made the statement, not me.

Are the troops that are registered Democrats UnPatriotic and Anti-American.......or is there a "Gray" Area?

I'm trying to think of history's great Marxists and their lasting contributions to our planet? Can you name a few??

Are you gonna answer the Question or are you going to start a new Thread

first there are a lot of dems that don't subscribe to Marxist theory, but I thought that on a day like today when there are a whole lot of marches and protests round the country with folks sporting Che Guevara tee shirts and bashing the country I thought it would be interesting to spark a little conversation on the subject, apparently there are many who either support or will not condemn...interesting...

any soldier in the US military, however they are affiliated or registered has the the right to their own beliefs, if said military member was to subscribe to Marxist theory and I found myself in a foxhole with him in say , Columbia helping our ally to beat back Marxist rebels funded by Hugo Chavez and I knew that he/she had their Che Guevara tee shirt under their fatigues and deep down actually sympathized with the dudes shooting at me.....well....do I have to answer that ?

would I consider a member of the military dedicated to Marxist views to be unpatriotic?...the answer is yes, can't see how the two jive, but that's just me

Somehow I think McCarthy would be smiling.

Really??? so if a member of the US military harbors radical islamic beliefs, that's ok too...where do YOU draw the line?? is this also tolerance for differing thought, should members of his unit have any concern, you guys are disappointing me...this country was founded on Liberty and Freedom, there's no freeodm associated with Marxism, how many failed examples do you need...Marxism demands slavery to the state, Europe is a mess, their little socialist democracies couldn't make it on their own so they've banded together so suck each others blood for a while, till that runs out, the healthcare model that Clinton and Obama propose is failing miserably in Canada, England and everywhere else, but that doesn't matter, just keep trashing the best healthcare in the world...make everyone dependent on government for everything, that's is the montra of the left...they make it sound real sweet, "don't cry for me America"...always results in great pain...but like I said...you've got a 50/50 shot at Marxist Eutopia....:rotflmao:

You made a direct correlation that being a democrat (unless of course you were talking republican below) also means you support Marxism. You made no mention or distinction that it had anything to do with supporting Marxist views, which is totally different. You said its Black and white. Obviously it isn't.




one of our two predominant parties is run and funded by folks that would love to shove Marxism down our throats and fundamentally change this country, they'd prefer to rip up our founding documents and create their own new and improved version of the Communist Manifesto,

Now you say that there are a lot of Dems that don't......again I thought it was Black and White. Can you make up your mind please

first there are a lot of dems that don't subscribe to Marxist theory,

See, now your fine tuning....we went from an entire politcal party to 1 member of the military. and in that situation, whether Radical Islam or Commie Sympathiser....its NOT OK....but that is an isolated case......Not one big Stereotype that you were aiming at before

Really??? so if a member of the US military harbors radical islamic beliefs, that's ok too...where do YOU draw the line?? is this also tolerance for differing thought, should members of his unit have any concern, you guys are disappointing me...this country was founded on Liberty and Freedom, there's no freeodm associated with Marxism, how many failed examples do you need...Marxism demands slavery to the state, Europe is a mess, their little socialist democracies couldn't make it on their own so they've banded together so suck each others blood for a while, till that runs out, the healthcare model that Clinton and Obama propose is failing miserably in Canada, England and everywhere else, but that doesn't matter, just keep trashing the best healthcare in the world...make everyone dependent on government for everything, that's is the montra of the left...they make it sound real sweet, "don't cry for me America"...always results in great pain...but like I said...you've got a 50/50 shot at Marxist Eutopia....:rotflmao:

Somehow I think McCarthy would be smiling.

Could not have said it better. :cheers:

This type of branding of alternate frames of reference and differing points of view as somtething un-american are the same as they have always been. Same turd different toilet. It is a personal attack, inciting distastes for things perceived to be disloyal :bsod: thereby prematurely cutting off further dialogue and any reconciliation. As it applies here in this thread it is a very weak argument technique.

Every once in a while something draws me out of my Lurkdom

that should grab...

OK, so this gets thrown around a lot, many lefties whine that they're unfairly labled when they do stupid stuff that undermines their own country...go figure

I'll go first, but I should clarify the fact that I have no issue with anyone of any race, creed, color or belief or previous residence somewhere else in the solar system that comes to the good ole' USA through our generous "legal" channels and creates a life for themselves and their future generations abiding by our laws and traditions. I believe that while we are a society of vast differences individually, what binds us is and adherence and belief in the principles that were discussed in the Federalist papers, put down in our Constitution and reinforced in the Bill of Rights, these guiding principles establish rights and responsibilities of individuals and more importantly limit the role of government over individuals, I do not believe that these are living and breathing documents, they are the pillars of our society structure meant to stand the test of time and tinkering by those intending to erode their importance.


For me it's simple..black and white some would say, I consider anyone who demonstrates a political ideaology that more closely resembles Marx and Mao than that of Madison and Adams to be at their core Unpatriotic and Anti-American, might be a little controversial for some, but hey, we're just talkin', right? The two just simply just can't co-exist and the former has been an utter failure everywhere it's been tried and the latter has resulted in great progress and unparalleled advancement for the entire globe...I know that's fogotten a lot....but it's true...

one of our two predominant parties is run and funded by folks that would love to shove Marxism down our throats and fundamentally change this country, they'd prefer to rip up our founding documents and create their own new and improved version of the Communist Manifesto, this time it will work because it will be better funded and smarter, more "ENLIGHTENED" folks will be implementing it ..and I'm tired of the smug looks and arrogant comments from those that continually subvert this nation, from the politicians that swear to uphold the laws of their respective states and country and then attack those that operate in that capacity(Ted Kennedy, John Kerry), governors that refuse to obey federal laws and declare "sanctuary cities" and operate their cities like their own little social experiment, American citizens that trave abroad and use their status to trash their own country and prop up thugs that seek out demise...:realmad:


so where do you draw the line....it will be drawn in this election

Everything he said is :bs:



You post reads an awful lot like a manifesto. But it lacks any facts, substantiated claims, real ideas or solutions.

that should grab...

what binds us is and adherence and belief in the principles that were discussed in the Federalist papers, put down in our Constitution and reinforced in the Bill of Rights, these guiding principles establish rights and responsibilities of individuals and more importantly limit the role of government over individuals, I do not believe that these are living and breathing documents, they are the pillars of our society structure meant to stand the test of time and tinkering by those intending to erode their importance.

So the Constitution should never be changed? Then you would have opposed Amendment XIII Ending Slavery? Amendment XIX Womens’ Suffrage? Amendment XXI Ending Prohibition? Do you consider these amendments mere “tinkering”?




I consider anyone who demonstrates a political ideaology that more closely resembles Marx and Mao than that of Madison and Adams to be at their core Unpatriotic and Anti-American

To what political ideology which is espoused by whom are you referring? I’m not aware of any candidate that wants to abolish capitalism as Marx would have. Can you show me where you read that? Can you show me some evidence? A quote? Even a misquote?


one of our two predominant parties is run and funded by folks that would love to shove Marxism down our throats and fundamentally change this country, they'd prefer to rip up our founding documents and create their own new and improved version

Surely you would not approve of a government that would establish secret prisons where they engage in torture and then lie that they even exist. That sounds like Stalin. Are you a fan of Stalin? Last I checked there was something in the Constitution about the right to a trial….and a ban on cruel and unusual punishment? Are those human rights or just American rights?

I'm tired of the smug looks and arrogant comments from those that continually subvert this nation, from the politicians that swear to uphold the laws of their respective states and country and then attack those that operate in that capacity(Ted Kennedy, John Kerry),

When have Kennedy and Kerry attacked those who defend us? Again, cite some evidence please. I thought you were referring to the Bush Administration which exposed a CIA operative (defender of the U.S.), risking her life for their own political gain.

…governors that refuse to obey federal laws and declare "sanctuary cities" and operate their cities like their own little social experiment,

I agree. Immigration policy and enforcement is a function of the federal government. So I’m sure you opposed the Gov. of RI who asked State and local police departments to investigate matters involving immigration. (The Prov. Police chief refused). Or do you agree with Gov. Carcieri’s “own little social experiment” which circumvents the federal government's authority set forth the Constitution?



OK, so this gets thrown around a lot, many lefties whine that they're unfairly labled when they do stupid stuff that undermines their own country...

You haven’t listed any specific “stupid stuff” or who has done it and when. Yet somehow it is a mystery to you that people would “whine” that they are unfairly labeled. Should we enjoy being unfairly labeled? Your entire post was all label and no fact!


For me it's simple..black and white ...

I agree. Your unsubstantiated opinions are indeed simple-minded.

The current administration is corrupt, morally and politically though I don't have any idea how a politician these days can get to the office of commander in chief or vice c.i.c. without being a touch so.

You have lost personal freedoms,the "Patriot Act" has accomplished this in the very function that Ol Ben Franklin warned about.

Government for the People and by the People is no longer a reality on the federal scale and is rapidly being lost on the state scale and in some town meetings.

Our President is a liar and unworthy of the office he holds and his Vice President is even worse. Turns out that Rumsfeld was actually the only one who wanted to get out of Iraq when it was realized that they, after going in on false pretenses and not fully prepared ( exit strategy), had screwed the pooch.

Can you be of differing political and social values and be an American and Patriotic? YOU BET YOUR ASS YOU CAN! And that is what makes this country great. One idealogical path for all citizens is no different than a view of communism or Marxism in it's intolerance of other types if it allows no dissention or differing thought and squashes those views from being heard by the act of Freedom of Speech.

Soldiers can harbor differing views as well and though some be be radical as long as they do not promote harm or injustice to others they are free to harbor those ideologies. It's guaranteed by our Constitution. Soldiers and sailors and airmen will all tell you that after thier tours are over and after they have been through war or posted in less fortubnate countries that they feel more patriotic because of what we have here and what we have here is because of our constitution. The patriotism is not based on support of the administration but of the people and the freedoms we have to think differently, worship or not worship as we see fit, go where we want ,wear what we want, listen to whom and what we want say what we want to say and so on.

Soldiers do thier duty, they have sworn to it and most don't like most of the situations they are in and all in all when put in a bad situation they fight not for the administration's ideals ( or lies as in our current Iraq involvement) but for the support of each other in that situation once there, for survival of each other. The current Iraq mess is not a patriotic war where we were attacked and our way of life threatened. The war on terror may be but Iraq was not part of that war. The guy who we needed to go after who actually does threaten us still lives in a cave in Afghanistan/Pakistan. He probably laughs his way to and from daily prayers about Iraq.

Patriotism and being a true American means following the ideals of the constitution and the core values that it speciffically states. Free speech, right to assemble, pursuit of happiness and equality and that being the case, in a true constitutional America anyone is free to say and believe what he wants when he wants and where he wants no matter how radical.

The constitution is under attack today by a manipulating adminstration who seeks to change the basic core values to suit thier agenda. In that case our current administration is actually totally un-patriotic and un-american don't you think?

talk about waking a sleeping Giant... :jester:

nice goin BTW


i just wanted to interject a comment about adopting our traditions

not all of them are so well accepted in other cultures that they are to be so readily
adopted by a new American.

thats it,
Carry on....

talk about waking a sleeping Giant... :jester:

nice goin BTW


Ha ha...sleeping yes....giant no. I hope your dog's feeling better, Raven.

sounds like a lot of guys are wearing their Che Guevara tees today:btu::btu:

Dad, I felt that I answered your question, you wanted to know if I felt that a military member holding marxist views and I said yes, after a lifetime spent in a military town and still surround by neighbors and friends, family both former and current military I can tell you that the next military member that I meet will a marxist belief system will be the first
The comment about the party and financial backers forcing Marxism on us was based on two candidates promising huge expansions of government and backers like George Soros who are happily admited enemies of the capitalist system and himself an unabashed Marxist, read one of his books ...

the Democrat candidates have left little doubt that they intend to bring about "change" in the form of a huge central government, their words, not mine....

if we are to descend into a nation of wholesale government dependence ...I consider that very un-American...but hey, that's a Marxist's dream...forgive me for my critical thinking...and once again, Happy May Day:wavey:

See, I don't feel you answered the question I asked....you answered the spin you put on the Question I asked.

Dad, I felt that I answered your question, you wanted to know if I felt that a military member holding marxist views and I said yes,

This was the question I asked....and all it needs is a one word answer Yes OR No.....you know Black OR White


So what you're saying is that you don't support any of the troops in Iraq or Afghanistan if they are registered Democrats, because they are supporting a Marxist Ideaology and therefore are Unpatriotic and Anti- American.

sounds like a lot of guys are wearing their Che Guevara tees today:btu::btu:
....The comment about the party and financial backers forcing Marxism on us was based on two candidates promising huge expansions of government and backers like George Soros who are happily admited enemies of the capitalist system and himself an unabashed Marxist, read one of his books ...


I don't know mujhviuefi....oops my Che Guevara beret fell onto the keyboard. :) I don't know much about George Soros, so I did a Wikipedia search (Not a definitive source, but it's a start).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros

No mention of communism, socialism or Marxism. It does say that he supported the Solidarity movement in Poland, which defeated the socialist government there. It also says he made his fortune trading in capital markets, stocks etc. He hardly sounds like one of the "happily admited enemies of the capitalist system and himself an unabashed Marxist," Again...you're long on labels and short on facts.

Robert, I did the same thing a long time ago, big philanthropist right? just check out one of his books and the organizations that he funds and his convictions

posted previously:
hey Spence, just so we're straight, I love talking politics because it one of the very few things that get people worked into a lather over things that they can do absolutely nothing about, my best customers are big libs and I have a ball making their eyes turn red because they really know, deep down that they are wrong...the leftys have very little sense of humor and an even shorter fuse...probably a result of knowing that they are way overmatched intellectually which is why they target the lowest common denominator....so please never get upset over things that I say, you'd like me, you really would...I'm really a fun guy and I hope that you can get out and find some fish this weekend, Scott



I'll consider this a raging success :jester::jester::jester:

Now where's that Donkey Smiley again?

hey Spence, just so we're straight, I love talking politics because it one of the very few things that get people worked into a lather over things that they can do absolutely nothing about, my best customers are big libs and I have a ball making their eyes turn red because they really know, deep down that they are wrong...the leftys have very little sense of humor and an even shorter fuse...probably a result of knowing that they are way overmatched intellectually which is why they target the lowest common denominator....so please never get upset over things that I say, you'd like me, you really would...I'm really a fun guy and I hope that you can get out and find some fish this weekend, Scott
Sorry, I've been out working to keep that GDP up.

The notion that you get excited making your customers squirm seems like a very odd comment to make.

I don't think you ever answered my question by the way.

-spence

... my best customers are big libs and I have a ball making their eyes turn red because they really know, deep down that they are wrong...the leftys have very little sense of humor and an even shorter fuse...probably a result of knowing that they are way overmatched intellectually... :

I do so have a sense of humor....This made me laugh!:hihi:

I do so have a sense of humor....This made me laugh!:hihi:
Yea, have you noticed how the very same people who insist Liberals are elitist snobs are so quick to regard Liberals as stupid?

Like, I thought the Liberals ran all the universities? I could go ask the folks at Bob Jones University as it's not far from where I am today, although as I'm wearing a pink shirt I probably should avoid that part of town.

-spence

feelin' the love now! Dad, not avoiding you, you just seem determined to have me tell you that any servivce member that's registered democrat is unpatriotic and that's not what I've suggested, this is about ideaology, not affiliation, some of you only pick out the parts that you want, then attack with , McCain is going to enjoy huge support from dems that realize that their party is swung so far to the left that they hardly recognize it, there are 20% of the voters for hill and o that claim they'll vote for him if their guy gets the boot and then there's the the freakshow that will be the Democratic Convention

I really don' know how to respond to all of this fan mail except to say this...it's real simple

one party stands for, is currently guided by Marxist principles of massive dependence on government, they've never made it as clear as they do now, I believe that this is in direct opposition with the prnciples that this country was founded on and that it is UN-AMERICAN...even prior to the slow down of the economy local, state and the federal government are struggling to deal with obligations, both current and unfunded future obligations, I believe the estimate for unfunded federal obligations over the next 25 years is 54trillion, think about that, if you are a Marxist your solution is to soil and trash American industry, corprations and current systems in place to the degree that you create enough outrage, real or whipped up to gain approval for more and bigger government solutions... sound familiar??? election of either of these two democrat candidates will result in massive expansion of government in the lives of every American whether that means providing you services whether you like it or not or taking more of the money that you work to earn in order to pay for their bloated socialits dream.."YEAH, BUT SCOTT...BUSH LIED PEOPLE DIED, PATRIOT ACT TOOK AWAY MY FREEDOM"....shut the f#%$ up...name one liberty or freedom that any one of you has actually lost under the partiot act....

didn't think so..
still waiting for anyone to name one or two of histories great Marxists and their benevolent contributions to our world

I do so have a sense of humor....This made me laugh!:hihi:

I'm glad ya liked it Robert, it was meant to be funny, Spence is my buddy...pointless to have these discussions then be angry since none of us have any actual ability to do much about it, my customers and I will yell at each other regarding politics and then they'll cut me a check and give me a hug, you realize that the pundints and pols that scream at each other on tv are clinking beer bottles back stage afterward....then it's very interesting to me to see how folks feel, so much can shape a world view, I really believe that if folks can get together like this with clearly differing views and let it all out without actually slugging it out it can be very productive, I've learned a lot just in this small exchange but I really hope we're not cutting into anyone's fishing...PEACE

I've suggested, this is about ideaology, not affiliation, some of you only pick out the parts that you want, then attack with , McCain is going to enjoy huge support from dems that realize that their party is swung so far to the left that they hardly recognize it,
The Dem party is no further to the left than it was under Clinton. You're just regurgitating talking points meant to associate anti-Bush rhetoric with the mainstream. Rhetoric that's shared in a less virul way by many if not most independent voters as it's rooted in very real incompetent and corrupt policy decisions.

one party stands for, is currently guided by Marxist principles of massive dependence on government, they've never made it as clear as they do now, I believe that this is in direct opposition with the prnciples that this country was founded on and that it is UN-AMERICAN...
"One party" huh?

This assertion, which I might add seems to be the bedrock of your entire argument is simply just wrong.

Both parties behave in a manner that inflates the size of government, but only one party is honest about it. The Republicans who have controled the House and Executive Office for the good part of the last 14 years have done little to seek guidance from the founding fathers and instead have made corporations dependent on the teets government, all in the name of shareholder value. The net is a middle class subsidizing 100 Million dollar paydays for the priveleged few.


YQUOTEEAH, BUT SCOTT...BUSH LIED PEOPLE DIED, PATRIOT ACT TOOK AWAY MY FREEDOM"....shut the f#%$ up...name one liberty or freedom that any one of you has actually lost under the partiot act....
What a hypocritical thing to say. Go read your own posts and reevaulate this statement.


still waiting for anyone to name one or two of histories great Marxists and their benevolent contributions to our world
By your definition I'd thankfully add FDR to the list.

-spence

I'm glad ya liked it Robert, it was meant to be funny, Spence is my buddy...pointless to have these discussions then be angry ......I've learned a lot just in this small exchange but I really hope we're not cutting into anyone's fishing...PEACE

I enjoyed it too.....but I'm done. I'm going back to my lurkdom. :wave:

this is about ideaology, not affiliation,

Then why did YOU bring up party affiliation....that is where I've been going with this. You made a statement that, in your own words was "Black and White" Democrats Support Marxist ideas.

I'm just looking to see if there is any "Gray Area" here....obviously there is

I'm just looking to see if there is any "Gray Area" here....obviously there is
There certianly is gray, ScottW just has a massive rounding error in his math.

Take for example Tammy Duckworth, a major in the National Guard who left both her legs in Iraq only to return home and run as a Democrat for the US House.

What was she fighting for?

-spence

You just have to love freedom of speech and freedom of press. It's as American as you can get.

It allows a windbag to denounce anyone who does not share the same point of view as dumber, a marxist, a fascist, whatever you want to categorize people as.

Even moreso, it allows he who shouts loudest, more often, or uses bigger vocabulary to proclaim himself the victor. Hip-hip-huzzah!

Political debates are similar to religious debates. No matter what is said or done, there is ZERO chance that the opposing party will change their point of view.

Who am I? Why am I here? I guess I was somewhat offended by being called UnAmerican and Unpatriotic. Being called dumber, never bothered me. i'm used to it.

I'm going back to looking for tips and amusement.

I disagree, thoughful debate will always get me to re-think my stance on any issue.

"For me it's simple..black and white some would say, I consider anyone who demonstrates a political ideaology that more closely resembles Marx and Mao than that of Madison and Adams to be at their core Unpatriotic and Anti-American

one of our two predominant parties is run and funded by folks that would love to shove Marxism down our throats and fundamentally change this country, they'd prefer to rip up our founding documents and create their own new and improved version of the Communist Manifesto, this time it will work because it will be better funded and smarter, more "ENLIGHTENED" folks will be implementing it .."

OK Dad, there they are, I was pretty clear in the first paragraph...Marx/Mao

second...party run and funded(I'm adding this because I clarified later- George Soros et.al) by folks who would love to shove Marxism...

never said all dem's are Marxists...got it? still love ya...

Spence, I think Joe Lienerman might strongly disagree that the party has now swerved way left...

look, this is a political forum right? it would be kinda boring if we all agreed on everyhting and the Enlightened among us wouldn't get to excercise the muscle of their giant brains by pummeling a know- nothing like me into submission right? think of me as your personal trainer for your brain...I feel bad for some of you with all of that anger and frustration built up inside, didn't take much to poke the volcano..

I've stated that I believe that Marxism and the slavery to a government that it requires is baaaaaaad....

I believe that the massive expansion of the government nanny state being promised by both dem candidates has it's roots in Marxist theory...

I believe that this is in direct opposition to the principles that this country was founded on and by that standard unpatriotic and un-American..

call me what you will, does that really sound that radical?

call me what you will, does that really sound that radical?
Considering your inability to regard the middle, where most Americans would position themselves, as having a legitimate claim to the substance of America...

Yes.

-spence

"We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing. With some the word liberty may mean for each man to do as he pleases with himself, and the product of his labor; while with others, the same word may mean for some men to do as they please with other men, and the product of other men's labor. Here are two, not only different, but incompatible things, called by the same name - liberty. And it follows that each of the things is, by the respective parties, called by two different and incompatible names - liberty and tyranny." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume VII, "Address at Sanitary Fair, Baltimore, Maryland" (April 18, 1864), p. 301-302.

Considering your inability to regard the middle, where most Americans would position themselves, as having a legitimate claim to the substance of America...

Yes.

-spence

Spence, are you claiming the middle?