What are your ideal surf conditions and time of day (dusk, dawn, night) for each of the following plugs. (Separate conditions for each please.)
I know some can be used in varying conditions and as for the needle various depths of the water column, but this is about that set of ideal conditions when you reach for this specific plug over all the others in your bag:

1) pencil popper
2) danny, pikie, surfster type
3) spook
4) subsurface (atom jr, bomber type)
5) surface redfin type
6) needle

1) pencil popper- Mid day, sun, moderate wind in your face. Water 2-15 ft
2) danny, pikie, surfster type - pikie doesn't belong in here, belongs with the subsurface plugs. Danny, calm night slight sweep, some moon, or cloudy day mild side or tail wind low surf. Rocks and water 4-18 ft deep
3) spook- Day, calm conditions (they don't work in a cross wind, use a pencil instead) Water 6-12ft
4) subsurface (atom jr, bomber type)- Night, current, moderate seas, water 5-8 deep. Note the real atom jr (styrofoam) is a surface plug more akin to a danny than a pikie (and best used with a skin), the BM atoms are subsurface plugs like a pikie.
5) surface redfin type- plastic is better used for dildos, which must be why Flap carries so many plastic swimmers. Sand, moderate surf, night.
6) needle-Dark night, some wind, minimal current
7) Bottle- Stormy seas, hard current, wind, night, cloudy moon
8) Darter- Night, side sweep, modest wind/wave, rocks

Plastic swimmers are excellent fish producers for me. Since Numbskull ( :hihi: ) can't fish them, I will tell you.

Night is usually the best time to fish them but overcast days or dusk/dawn they are also productive. Of course if you fish them enough during the day you are bound to hit something.

Not too much wind is ideal unless it is at your back, then you can sail them out there if need be. If you load them you can get away with a little more wind. Always fish them slower than you think you need to.

I live on the L.I. Sound and these swimmers occupy alot of space in my bag. The Mag Darter has become a go to if the bass are slurping baitfish off the surface, day or night.

During the spring these are a must in your bag for back bay fishing. Tie on a teaser and you have a deadly combination.

Of course, there is also this viewpoint held by many authorities

1) pencil popper- when there are no fish to eat your eels and you want to have fun casting
2) danny, pikie, surfster type-when you are out of eels and want to feel good about spending money over the winter
3) spook- when bluefish eat your eels and you want to get even
4) subsurface (atom jr, bomber type)- when you don't have time to buy eels
5) surface redfin type- when you are wasting time on schoolies waiting to fish eels after dark
6) needle- when your eels aren't working, there are no bunker to be had, so you go chase breaking tuna instead

5) surface redfin type- when you are wasting time on schoolies waiting to fish eels after dark - numbskull

If you are just catching schoolies then you might want to move out of that spot. Every plug has its time and place.

Oh yeah. Went out tonight for a little over two hours. Six bass. 4 were high teens into the twenties and 2 shorts. 3 blues. ALL on a Yo-zuri Mag Darter. Thats a plastic swim bait by the way.

This could be a great thread and very helpful to many .. Good topic . Please don't let this one go bad.. Any experience/opions welcome .

Pencil Popper: Daybreak on the canal when the tide has turned east at dawn Mackerel this year, low water incoming at dawn on the outer beach and the pencil should be white, high slack over grass beds in CC Bay May and June and should be yellow.
Danny, Surfster, Pikie: Anytime of year cast from shore or boat especially into the rocks along the Elizabeths, dawn/dusk along the back beach. With a skin at night just about anywhere.
Spook: See pencil popper cc bay and along the Elizabeths.
Atom Jr: Night time along the Elizabeths casting from boat, running tide in the dark last hour at the canal. Add skin for exra pleasure.
Surface Redfin type: Only use them loaded and only 7 inch.
Needlefish: 90% of the time at night anywhere after July 1st.

Hey Guys tell me more about the needle. I retrieve it very slow but the back end sinks down. is it supposed to look like it's slowly feeding at the surface? is it supposed to create a wake or is it just for white water?

Of course, there is also this viewpoint held by many authorities

1) pencil popper- when there are no fish to eat your eels and you want to have fun casting
2) danny, pikie, surfster type-when you are out of eels and want to feel good about spending money over the winter
3) spook- when bluefish eat your eels and you want to get even
4) subsurface (atom jr, bomber type)- when you don't have time to buy eels
5) surface redfin type- when you are wasting time on schoolies waiting to fish eels after dark
6) needle- when your eels aren't working, there are no bunker to be had, so you go chase breaking tuna instead


Your most informative post in a long time, perhaps ever. Even an old salty dog can learn new tricks.:think:

Admittedly, the bulk of my large fish have come on plugs this year. I guess I'm just misunderstood, meaning I'll employ whatever works best for the big ones at a given time. Most of the time its elvers though....

Blue white,White blue head pencil during the mullet run..
Yellow for peanuts...
First light,dusk..
It is a awesome big fish plug..

1) pencil popper- Mid day, sun, moderate wind in your face. Water 2-15 ft
2) danny, pikie, surfster type - pikie doesn't belong in here, belongs with the subsurface plugs. Danny, calm night slight sweep, some moon, or cloudy day mild side or tail wind low surf. Rocks and water 4-18 ft deep



The traditional CC pike was a subsurface swimmer.
Many of todays newer fatter designs coined after Mike Fixter's plug are topwater tail waggers..Best used when baitfish are present.Like herring in the spring or mullet or better yet peanuts in the fall.Don't let the larger sized models scare you either.The fish are attracted to the action.I often outsize my plugs to cull better fish..Most effective when the water is in a calmer state..
I made some dannys to fish with a good pull.Slight subsurface.Hold em in the wave.Have done very good with em.Lots of times this minor adjustment can be simply done by using heavier hooks..
Subsurface lures I like when the water gets up some.They hold better putting ur offering in the strike zone longer as they done get blasted out by a wave as much..There are times when a subsurface plug will outfish surface plugs in the flat stuff.Who knows why.Sometimes bass just look down..Like when they are on the crabs here in NJ..Let the fish tell ya..

Oh yeah. Went out tonight for a little over two hours. Six bass. 4 were high teens into the twenties and 2 shorts. 3 blues. ALL on a Yo-zuri Mag Darter. Thats a plastic swim bait by the way. Dumbass

How did you learn my middle name? You been talking to Flap?

Looks like I will forget about this site again, maybe you will go away. Probably not so most likely I will.


Do so until your capacity to detect sarcasm improves. We love that stuff here, BTW.:uhuh:
Come back in six months with a thicker dermal layer. Numbskull, dumbass, et al, and I will hold the fort until then.

Hey Guys tell me more about the needle. I retrieve it very slow but the back end sinks down. is it supposed to look like it's slowly feeding at the surface? is it supposed to create a wake or is it just for white water?

You're fishing it right (at least for at night). A slow retrieve so it makes a wake or comes along just subsurface with a slow wobble is the norm. Use an occassional hesitation/small twitch. You can count it down and retrieve it deeper if nothing is taking up top, but usually you will have to speed up your retrieve some 1/2 way in to get it up above the bottom. The tail weight on a needle lets you cast it farther but more importantly it gives you depth control. Even though the tail sinks fast, it does so at an angle so as you start to retrieve the body acts like a planer to bring it back up. Different brand needles do this do different degrees so it is best to fool with them in daylight to learn what they'll do before using them at night.

5) surface redfin type- when you are wasting time on schoolies waiting to fish eels after dark - numbskull

If you are just catching schoolies then you might want to move out of that spot. Every plug has its time and place. Just because you can't figure that out you shouldn't bash it. I could say bait is for morons who can't fish plugs but I know it has its spot in the rotation. After reading quite a few of your posts it seems you don't really care what the thread is about, you just want to increase your total post number.

Looks like I will forget about this site again, maybe you will go away. Probably not so most likely I will.


GO YANKEES!!!! F THE PATS


Oh yeah. Went out tonight for a little over two hours. Six bass. 4 were high teens into the twenties and 2 shorts. 3 blues. ALL on a Yo-zuri Mag Darter. Thats a plastic swim bait by the way. Dumbass


If you paid a little more attention to this site, instead of flying off the handle, you would know that George (numbskull) is an intelligent, insightful individual who often writes tongue in cheek.

Suit yourself on leaving/staying.

5) surface redfin type- when you are wasting time on schoolies waiting to fish eels after dark - numbskull

If you are just catching schoolies then you might want to move out of that spot. Every plug has its time and place. Just because you can't figure that out you shouldn't bash it. I could say bait is for morons who can't fish plugs but I know it has its spot in the rotation. After reading quite a few of your posts it seems you don't really care what the thread is about, you just want to increase your total post number.

Looks like I will forget about this site again, maybe you will go away. Probably not so most likely I will.



GO YANKEES!!!! F THE PATS


Oh yeah. Went out tonight for a little over two hours. Six bass. 4 were high teens into the twenties and 2 shorts. 3 blues. ALL on a Yo-zuri Mag Darter. Thats a plastic swim bait by the way. Dumbass



You need to take a breath guy and relax. Numbskull and Flap just gave you a tremendous schooling all for free.

If you paid a little more attention to this site, instead of flying off the handle, you would know that George (numbskull) is an intelligent, insightful individual who often writes tongue in cheek.

Suit yourself on leaving/staying.

I think George is probably a hyper-normal individual. Kindasorta the Ned Flanders of the Wire Trolling fishing world yet he allows his Alter-Ego to flourish in our little corner of the Internet. Secretly, he fishes Eels and does not consider the usability of plugs unless he's simply waiting for noontime to employ the effective live eel.

I know this because I have personally witnessed Nubskull retrieve live eels, XRay the little heathens to determine their spinal flexibility, and sort them according to this flexibility at which point he fishes them via lead core or wire line off the back of his Bayliner.

(EDIT - Sorry Tagger, after posting this I remembered you wanted to keep this topic on track :wall: - I'll give you an eel the next time I see you! )

For the record, the only reason I dump on plastic is because it works better than what I make. Makes me insecure. No doubt, however, you could become an excellent plugfisherman without ever swimming wood. Even I wouldn't think of going to the outer cape without it. Bombers (straight and jointed), Rebels, Redfins, Mambo minnows, GS Slammers, SS needle, SS darter, SS little necks (the 2.75oz in particular), Spofford needles, the whole Yozuri line, Rapala Xraps, Pili poppers, CCBC superstrikes, and Cordell BigO's all are great plugs and worth owning. Some of this new Seible (?sp) also looks intriguing.

I think the area wood has an advantage is primarily in larger plugs. Big needles (2.5-3oz), big swimmers, big jointed stuff, big bottles. You also get a much better selection of darters and needles once you include wood. When you get into chasing big fish in bad terrain, heavy tackle becomes important and heavy plugs are an advantage. Finally, there is no plastic plug of which I am aware that can match a Danny's ability to draw large bass off the bottom in deep water/good visability conditions (though pencils and spooks are decent at it).

All of it has it's place and only a dumbass would suggest otherwise (not that that would stop me) so Frankiesurf is right on that. He seems like a good fisherman, and I welcome his input.

"Ned Flanders" I hope that doesn't make the Homer Simpson of the same, I was kinda hoping I would be Krusty The Clown.

is it supposed to look like it's slowly feeding at the surface? is it supposed to create a wake or is it just for white water?

All of the above . hang in there Bill.. What Numby said .. I see needles in three catergories..
1. floaters/wakers . shallow boulder fields,, calm flat water nights..
2. slow sinkers,, i fish them in like 12-15 feet of water ..slow retieve ,, pause,, If you know your sink rate , you can put it in thier face. I tick the bottom with them sometimes . very retrieve sensitive.. most hits come stumbling around in the surf .
3. fast sinkers ..Heavy big surf..deep water..
All needles are not alike. Probably the most versatile lures ,,cast great ,, big fish love them ..

I recently watched Numby's boy do a job with that 1 3/4 ounce Gibbs from the floater/waker catergory... I make my own slow sinkers.. thing of beauty when they come out right ..

nothing from the rubber crowd ? anyone throw tin anymore .. I read somewhere before WWII tin ruled the surf ..

anyone throw tin anymore .. I read somewhere before WWII tin ruled the surf ..

They even had a special reel for that, The Penn Squidder:D

All right guys point taken. I will put on my neoprenes to thicken my skin if needed.

Great thread without my off topic interruption.

Anyway, back on topic. I love fishing tins as much as bucktails. If I know they are hanging low then I usually throw on a Blue Frog and have at it. If they are not hitting I will throw on a tin. This certainly works out best at dawn and dusk. There are new tins out that are black powder coated for use at night but I have yet to try them. Has anyone else?

I see guys put on a tin and crank it in at the speed of light (same with pencils). STOP THAT! Slow it down. It is slow and low just like a buck. Depending on what kind of tin you are using you don't even have to give it any action. The tins with the keels are my preference. Actually I prefer Charlie Graves "J" series .

Rarely do I use a diamond jig. Unless sand eels are around and the jig has a green tube trailer.

A last reminder. As Ralph Votta (maker of Charlie Graves Tins) told me "Fish 'em to yer feet"

pencils- at dawn and at dusk, casting way out past the rollers
Danny's- while I've used these in calmer waters, I've nailed big bass on 'em in a rip.
Pikie's and Surfsters- I will use these at night, casted over the rollers and retrieved slow.
Spooks- white water favorites, daybreak
Atom Jr's and Bombers, I'll include darters as well. Fast out flows, and a slow retrieve, with a stop and go, twitch retrieve. At night
Redfins- on the outflows, when the bass are still hitting, and I don't want to get hung up on the rocks, at night I do well with these.
Needle- well, I've been using these more this season, a slow retrieve. And at night, when I want distance and there is wind present.

All right guys point taken. I will put on my neoprenes to thicken my skin if needed.

Great thread without my off topic interruption.

. There are new tins out that are black powder coated for use at night but I have yet to try them. Has anyone else?



Pt.Jude Lures a sponser here.makes the Black Knight series.
A collection of black "tins" awesome stuff I did surprisingly well with the 1.5 "Pogee" last yr..
Check em out here
http://pointjudelures.com/tins/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=39&Itemid=57

I agree with tagger! This is a great topic..the name is the only reason i clicked it. I am new to the east coast style of fishing (left new england for the service over twenty years ago) I can cast wesst coast irons with conventionals with the best..Had to relearn spinning reels (i kow it sounds wierd) but now i've bought a VS and Lami wetsuit surf bag and i am learning to fish all the main plugs listed.
The needle (pencil popper?) is quickly becoming my favorite...I find it works best with a push/pull type of wiggle and a slow retrieve. Danny's are trying my patience...way to slow..i'm use to stinging an iron and frying it back as fast as possible (6:1 ration is hyper fast).
Joe from PT. Jude lures seems to make some of the sexiest swimming tins around...I've had moderate succes. The jetty caster bucktails with a 7' pork rind has been doing fairly well low and slow.
anyway this is a great topic for those of us willing to learn from the old salts...i hope to be salty one day! I like the sarcasm also...but if i wanted hear bitchin about fishing i would have stayed married!

I agree with tagger! This is a great topic..the name is the only reason i clicked it. I am new to the east coast style of fishing (left new england for the service over twenty years ago) And Thank You for that service :btu:

but if i wanted hear bitchin about fishing i would have stayed married! :tooth:

Hey thanks johnr! i really had a "blast" in the service so to speak..got to fish every ocean except antarctica..my best was a 7' blue shark in monterey from a battleship...exc. chef made some awesome steaks..that fish really proved the effects of "teamwork"! I've been out fished by more foriegn kids with tin cans and bummed hooks than i can count! I even noodled once in oklahoma! now the stripers have my full attention and cann't seem to break the 30# mark...so i have learned afew things from this post! Lets keep it up!

Hey thanks johnr! i really had a "blast" in the service so to speak..got to fish every ocean except antarctica..my best was a 7' blue shark in monterey from a battleship...exc. chef made some awesome steaks..that fish really proved the effects of "teamwork"! I've been out fished by more foriegn kids with tin cans and bummed hooks than i can count! I even noodled once in oklahoma! now the stripers have my full attention and cann't seem to break the 30# mark...so i have learned afew things from this post! Lets keep it up!


Good Stuff, Maybe you should try Noodlin for a 30..:eek:
Thanks for your time protecting are ass from the infidel.

woodghost, Thank You very much. :thanks:

Hey thanks johnr! i really had a "blast" in the service so to speak..got to fish every ocean except antarctica..my best was a 7' blue shark in monterey from a battleship...exc. chef made some awesome steaks..that fish really proved the effects of "teamwork"! I've been out fished by more foriegn kids with tin cans and bummed hooks than i can count! I even noodled once in oklahoma! now the stripers have my full attention and cann't seem to break the 30# mark...so i have learned afew things from this post! Lets keep it up!

You really have to chat with Angler #1 .. He fished the world off a Navy Destroyer WWII.. He was in charge of recreation, and by the time he got out he had 8 rods stowed on board and had the whole ship fishing .. He got in a jam for bending a small crane trying to haul a big fish on board .. If you two chat, I'd love to listen .. He's a forum leader in mass forum over there .

Thanks! I never used (or needed..if ihad i would have used) a crane. Used the b'osins skiff to land the shark...The XO told the deck crew to help me land the fish..a couple "well" placed shots from a m9 made the fish more "stable". I was merely a willing particpant i the melee. Tuna off hawai, unknown fish in the black sea, Unknown fish with grenades in the persian gulf with "indeginous" people. I should be thanking all you guys for paying your taxes on time to let my teammates and myself fish some of the best and worst waters of the world! TANK YOU! Back to the topic...is the white water the best place to fish the big metal lip danny?

Back to the topic...is the white water the best place to fish the big metal lip danny?

No, you want calmer water
they work well near the mouths of breachways, ina bowl on the beach at first light(white) sometimes when smaller fish are around eating stuff like small needles and sluggos, a better fish will come up for a danny and surprise you.

Dannys and whitewater have gotten a ton of press recently (and for good reason) but, in my experience, I think their biggest strength is in enticing reluctant fish to hit in conditions where they would ignore most plugs.....namely calm, good visability, deeper water, day or night. I think the surface wake they make is a big part of this. As it gets rougher this advantage is lost and a subsurface swimmer does better.

i would concur with George, wholeheartedly

and since this seems to be becoming a Danny thread;

something i stumbled on last year that offers a different "twist"
than has been mentioned thus far is to let the Danny hit, super crank it for four or five cranks so as to make the Danny pop-pop, then swim it steady and much slower than the pops.

pop-pop-pause-ssswwwwiiimmm. continue up unto yer feet, from false dawn right into an hour past first light.

~~olive green over creme, yellow over white, white/white ~~ has raised sum goodun's from Gansett to the NShore,,,,,,,,,,,,1'-4' seas gentle rollers, decent visibility, had more than a coupla nice twenties launch themselves at a "wounded" danny.

:claps: :claps: :claps:
And THANK YOU VERRRRY MUCH for your meritorious service to
Our God Blessed America. You Protect Her so that my Ironworking
Bretheren and i can Build Her. WELCOME HOME SOLDIER!!!
:claps: :claps: :claps:

shore hope you can stay awhile and Land sum LAHHHHGE!!!!
:bl: :bl: :bl: :bl:

Woodghost -

Thank U for your Service Sir....

Ice

woodghost - welcome back to the "right" coast! - have you checked out Zeno's book yet?

yes i have had Zenos book since the spring...it holds a prestigous spot on top of the porciline thrown!

I know it's a longshot but does anybody know where can I get Zenos book in europe? Been surfing the internet for a week now and still can't get it and none of the online sellers from america are shipping to old continent.

Zoran

I know it's a longshot but does anybody know where can I get Zenos book in europe? Been surfing the internet for a week now and still can't get it and none of the online sellers from america are shipping to old continent.

Zoran


Good question - maybe one of the resellers here would make an exception if it is legal to do so ;)

Good question - maybe one of the resellers here would make an exception if it is legal to do so ;)

I would really apreciate if someone is willing to make an extra effort. We don't have wooden plugs here. Never seen plugs like pencil popper, bottle plug or darter live in action. There are some videos on the net but I believe this book would really help with my building.

Sorry for offtopic.

Zoran

I would really apreciate if someone is willing to make an extra effort. We don't have wooden plugs here. Never seen plugs like pencil popper, bottle plug or darter live in action. There are some videos on the net but I believe this book would really help with my building.

Sorry for offtopic.

Zoran

Where do you live and fish, and for what?

Well I live in Slovenia (next to Italy and Austria) and I fish in Adriatic sea. We don't have striped bass where I fish, but we have what we call sea bass. A lot smaller (a 30lber is a catch of a lifetime). As far as I learned these last 6 months since I found couple of Striped Bass forums that their feeding habits are very much alike. I started lurking on these forums cause I wanted to make my own lures. Our bass is active when south wind is very strong and that means that you have to throw your plugs into/against the wind. With lures available in our tackle stores that is imposible. We have sufcast fishing but not surfcast fishing with plugs.
I would like to transfer and adapt the knowledge of surfcasting for striped bass to surfcasting for our sea bass. So I thought if I could learn how different types of plugs are supposted to be fished, when and why I could improve my plug building skills.
And we also have some large blue water fish that grow up to 80lb, and can be caught from shore during summer.

Zoran

I am now educated beyond my intelligence!

Zoja you forgot to mention the beaches are topless for the most part! I am willing to bet if you had room to spare you would have more than afew guys flying your way with a bag full of big wood..so to speak! And 80# fish from shore would only sweetin the deal...I'm thinking topless dark haired, blue eyed maidens asking what your doing is not a bad thing!:kewl:

Ha ha. Yes our beaches are top optional, as far as 80lb fish from shore, it's very rare but it can be done and it already has been done.
But topless beaches and fishing don't mix, I can only work with one stiff rod at a time...:lama:

Zoran