OK.
I have some points to open discussion on, some issues I have w/ the light tackle BFT fishery. It isn't an attack at anyone, as what most people are doing is legal. Just some questions I have. Personally, I wouldnt chase these 50-60" bluefin with anything lighter than 50lb gear, with stout stand-up rods. I know spinning reels and heavy spin rods rods have plenty of backbone, but it just isn't the same, IMHO.

1. What do people think the survivability of 100+lb bluefin on spin gear? Has anyone seen numbers? Just curious. Something I've never seen.
Having caught my share, I know they pull almost to death.

2. Whats the hook-up bust off ratio of your average angler?

3. How many people are fishing trebles on the plugs. See #2, a fish busted off with a mouth full of trebles has a much lower survivability than one w/ single hooks (I feel the same w/ Bass FWIW)

4. How do people feel about this fishery?
It is bringing a lot of people in small boats to tuna fishing, which is cool, but bluefin are not doing well as a whole, so any added pressure probably isn't good, right?

Again, this isn't an attack, just trying to open some discussion on a fish other than bass!

In full disclosure, I have no problem with tuna fishing (and try and get out for yellowfin and albacore at the edge as often as I can), but it is pretty rare that we catch a legal limit and start releasing fish. We fish 50's spooled with 80lb braid and mono topshots, and troll gear with single hooks, which I think does less damage if you break off fish. I'm not some card carrying peta guy, as you know, but I am not a big fan of light tackle for most any fish. I believe in 'appropriate tackle'. Just some thoughts I have when I see the pictures of the bluefin being caught....

OK.
I have some points to open discussion on, some issues I have w/ the light tackle BFT fishery. It isn't an attack at anyone, as what most people are doing is legal. Just some questions I have. Personally, I wouldnt chase these 50-60" bluefin with anything lighter than 50lb gear, with stout stand-up rods. I know spinning reels and heavy spin rods rods have plenty of backbone, but it just isn't the same, IMHO.

1. What do people think the survivability of 100+lb bluefin on spin gear? Has anyone seen numbers? Just curious. Something I've never seen.
Having caught my share, I know they pull almost to death.

2. Whats the hook-up bust off ratio of your average angler?

3. How many people are fishing trebles on the plugs. See #2, a fish busted off with a mouth full of trebles has a much lower survivability than one w/ single hooks (I feel the same w/ Bass FWIW)

4. How do people feel about this fishery?
It is bringing a lot of people in small boats to tuna fishing, which is cool, but bluefin are not doing well as a whole, so any added pressure probably isn't good, right?

Again, this isn't an attack, just trying to open some discussion on a fish other than bass!

In full disclosure, I have no problem with tuna fishing (and try and get out for yellowfin and albacore at the edge as often as I can), but it is pretty rare that we catch a legal limit and start releasing fish. We fish 50's spooled with 80lb braid and mono topshots, and troll gear with single hooks, which I think does less damage if you break off fish. I'm not some card carrying peta guy, as you know, but I am not a big fan of light tackle for most any fish. I believe in 'appropriate tackle'. Just some thoughts I have when I see the pictures of the bluefin being caught....

Brian, I troll fish exclusively, on 50W's. One idea is with trolled baits, whether it's squid rigs, cedar plugs, whatever, reduce the size of the hooks on the hook baits. Large hooks will exit through the fish's eye and will most certainly cause him some trouble as tuna really rely on their vision to feed.

Good discussion.

I hope that unlike bass, we are not keeping every fish that we are legally allowed to keep. These fish are babies and beyond one or two a year for the grill, we have kicked back our fish. It seems that our fisheries managers have their collective heads up their behinds, so it seems that we as sportsman need to do the right thing and let our conscience guide us.

But, there are a lot of people in the game now, so I believe we as a group are killing way more BFT now than in the past, but that's only my opinion, not fact.

Light tackle might be more fun, but in the interest of releasing a healthy fish, 50 weight tackle seems smarter.

Light tackle might be more fun, but in the interest of releasing a healthy fish, 50 weight tackle seems smarter.

Exactly!

Trolling gear is 114H and a 50, 80# braid with topshot, always siwash on stinger, never used a treble.
But very interested in casting to them, and interested in what size spin reel you need to put the boot to the fish... Also interested in what spin rods will do the job. It's one thing to be undergunned on a striper, but a whole 'nother thing to get your ass kicked by a tuna on a 30 second run that leaves you with a smoked reel, spooled, or both. It is an exciting, albeit expensive 30 seconds, or less. And then there is the issue of the health of the fish after that.....

I'd say spinning gear IS appropriate, assuming it actually is. It CAN be light tackle, sure, but if you watch someone who'd good at fighting tuna on spin and is properly equipped, you'll see a 100# tuna boatside in short order.

But, fish fighting skills are lacking, ability to rig lines to put the maximum pull on the fish is lacking, ability to deal with a fish boatside is lacking, LOTS of things are lacking and I think a lot of it really it comes down to education and experience. These issues aren't exclusive to those using spin, either. I see plenty of vicious gaff and release tactics using conventional gear as well as excessively long battles.

As mentioned there's a lot of people out there that are new to the game because of the press it has received lately and that's where I think some of the issues lie. I think many spin guys wouldn't get locked in the battles they sometimes do if they knew what they were throwing at. They just haven't seen enough to gauge just what they're casting at. Unless you don't know what you're looking at you don't throw at 200 pound fish. Not only that but they just don't know what they're getting into. What felt like a heavy spin outfit just doesn't once they hook up to an actual 100# fish. People look at me like I have 3 heads sometimes when I recommend an appropriate spin outfit for this year's very common 100# bluefin. "REally?!! That big a spinning reel?$^!"

So that's my take on it. Gear up and turn that drag up. Get a hefty Calstar, St. Croix, whatever, something that means business. 20 to 40 pound rated minimum. Don't cast at giants. Use singles if you're planning to release. A gaff shot to the cheek or anywhere really isn't the best for a healthy release. Basic stuff and seemingly common sense maybe, but only if you've been doing it for a while.

This year especially a lot of guys are having a reality check, and if the fish are bigger next year this won't even be a discussion as they will have moved out of the realm of spin gear.

Light tackle might be more fun.

For tuna in the 100# range? I don't think so. After about 20 minutes it's miserable.

I think initially there's some "romance" (for lack of a better way to put it) in the concept of that hour long battle for some guys, but after a few rounds of that most snap out of it.

The fish have released on the troll and the little experience i have with spinning gear, both came boat side looking the same. They come up on their side, get the hook out, and they swim off.

People look at me like I have 3 heads sometimes when I recommend an appropriate spin outfit for this year's very common 100# bluefin.

Out of curiosity, but how much drag, line, and line capacity do you think is appropriate at a minimum? Minimal spin/conventional reels that aren't the heavy duty TLD, etc. conventional trolling reels w/ 600yd/30# capacity?

Here goes ...


1. What do people think the survivability of 100+lb bluefin on spin gear? Has anyone seen numbers? Just curious. Something I've never seen.
Having caught my share, I know they pull almost to death.

Their fate after release, my guess is if they swim away and out of site they're ok, if they're struggling, well that's more food for the f&%^*& bazillion dogfish, hopefully they feed a crab or lobster.

2. Whats the hook-up bust off ratio of your average angler?

I'm not really answering your question but, I think the hook up for all the boats out on stellwagen on a weekend is < 20%, lots of fishing but not much catching.

3. How many people are fishing trebles on the plugs. See #2, a fish busted off with a mouth full of trebles has a much lower survivability than one w/ single hooks (I feel the same w/ Bass FWIW).

Single hooks on my plugs and metals. I don't imagine they'll last long with a mouth full of hooks.

4. How do people feel about this fishery?
It is bringing a lot of people in small boats to tuna fishing, which is cool, but bluefin are not doing well as a whole, so any added pressure probably isn't good, right?

The fishery is not what is was (from what I've read and heard from old timers) but I don't think we rec's are putting much pressure on the fish, the seiners across the pond do more damage in one haul than the rec's do in one season. this won't come out right, but what the hell, .... why should they get the last fish.


Great post Riprockhound, attention is needed IMHO there is no need for more than 1 fish.
Not sure where this fits, but I hate dogfish, every drop of the jig gaffed one these nasty bastages. 600lb limit :whackin: make it 100000000000 lb limit.

30# seems to light for these fish, we use 80 pound mono on trolling outfits, nothing smaller than 50lb braid for casting...one of the fish i got saturday was on 80 pound braid.

Out of curiosity, but how much drag, line, and line capacity do you think is appropriate at a minimum? Minimal spin/conventional reels that aren't the heavy duty TLD, etc. conventional trolling reels w/ 600yd/30# capacity?

For spin gear 13 to 17#'s of drag for 50# braid. Much more and you'll bust 50# braid way too often. Much less and you'll be there for an hour unless you palm the spool (which I'm a big proponent of during the vertical fight). You can start carefully playing around 20#'s or so with 65# line.

Be aware that 20#'s of spin reel drag can take out a fish quickly but it also takes out a lot of anglers too (assuming it's a 100 pound tuna). It's SERIOUS drag pressure. Don't laugh at it until you try it. Come to the SWE parking lot and I'll hook you up to Phat Matt and let him run, you'll see.

For line, 400+ yards but you'll never want to see that much and usually won't. I chase long before that if I even remotely think there will be an issue, I hate long fights. I fished with 200 yards of braid last year just to see (the fish were smaller, 60 to 70 pounds mostly) if I'd ever have an issue and never saw backing.

Biggest reason not to let fights drag on is most of people tire a bit fairly quickly, proper fish fighting goes out the window, and it goes downhill for everyone from there. The fish, the fighter, and everyone else in the boat who wants to go catch one. Minutes tick by and before long you're the spin guy RIRockhound's talking about. :hee:

Do you really think Matt can run against 20#'s of drag for more than 50'?

I think you've got a u-tube video there.

buckmanjr: sorry, I meant 30# mono capacity (they always seem to list capacity in terms of mono), so that'd be probably 80# braid.

pete: LOL. You use one of your employees as a virtual tuna for testing? Sounds like my little Saltist 30H would survive a tuna fight w/ Phat Matt :-)

pete: LOL. You use one of your employees as a virtual tuna for testing? Sounds like my little Saltist 30H would survive a tuna fight w/ Phat Matt :-)

Back in June once we discovered the tuna roaming CCB this year were 90+ pounds, reels, drags, and rods got a thorough testing in the parking lot to make sure they were capable and being used to their limits. And yeah, that means the Phat Man racing across the parking lot.

I've got video of the Ironman racing into the distance with me in a bucket harness using a Penn Senator 114 some where...

Light tackle is absolutely bad for the survival of these fish !
Between all the babies being killed here , the yearly slaughters going on in the mediterranean with dozens of countries with sein boats and no other countries with any regulations other than the US and Canada, and japan's thirst for sushi, there isn't going to be tuna to be caught in our future !

Also on the topic of tuna,
With the explosion of rec boats fishing for footballs the last 4-5 years, I wonder how many recs call in with any catch info (as should be done) so they can collect the necessary data of how many of these fish are being caught and killed as to set future catch limits so this fishery can be sustainable in the future ! I would bet very few !!!
I get weekly to bi weekly calls for catch reports.

Pete, When you say 13# to 17# of drag for 50# braid, do you mean the weight that will pull line directly off the reel, or with the reel mounted on a rod and the rod bent? Do you think the very light jigging rods like the shimano Trevala series have enough backbone to fight these fish?

Pete.
I know you guys do your homework.
My concern is mostly geared to undergunned weekend warriors...
good posts guys. just wanted to open a discussion

[QUOTE=Pete_G;613079]For tuna in the 100# range? I don't think so. After about 20 minutes it's miserable.

Sign me up for the misery please and alot of it!

All in all it's pretty simple. Do your homework, and don't do things half a$$. If your goal is a 100+ lb on spinning gear, then be prepared. Don't plan on going out there with a Penn Slammer 560, 20lb braid, and a 7 foot light action rod. All your doing is wasting time and money, and resources ( fish ). Get the right tool for the job.

You wouldn't build a house with a toy hammer would you?

I just want one, 40-60lbs and I'll never fish for them again

Pete, When you say 13# to 17# of drag for 50# braid, do you mean the weight that will pull line directly off the reel, or with the reel mounted on a rod and the rod bent? Do you think the very light jigging rods like the shimano Trevala series have enough backbone to fight these fish?

Reel on the rod bent. I usually just use a Boga Grip for testing, otherwise it's more by feel then anything else. Great way to get a feel for various drag settings and finding out what your gear is really capable of before you go out. That that 17#'s is imho the upper limit for 50. Without perfect rigging and a perfect drag that number isn't really doable. I'd guess I'm usually around 14 pounds and palm the spool to put more pressure on boatside.

Haven't played with the Trevala series, but I know a few guys using them, just not sure which models.

My concern is mostly geared to undergunned weekend warriors...


Agreed, and they're out there but there's really not that many. Usually I just see the same boats all the time roaming around on the Cape looking for the topwater tuna and I know half of them.

I'm not saying it's not an issue, especially at times when word breaks that the fishing is really easy, but sometimes I think it's an overstated issue. I just don't see the number of boats needed to do relevent damage.

You also have to consider some of the weekend warriors do not exactly know what they are doing. I have seen many just fly past fish on top. The percentage of them hooking up could be very low, but some do get lucky.

I see a huge factor in taking fish on light tackle missing from this thread.

The person behind the wheel knowing wtf they're doing and knowing when to run down a fish, when to keep the boat moving, and when to hold the boat in position and how.

For spin gear 13 to 17#'s of drag for 50# braid. Much more and you'll bust 50# braid way too often.

Doesn't sound like 50# braid works that well for this year's bigger tuna if this is any indication:
http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/showthread.php?t=605838

ken

Doesn't sound like 50# braid works that well for this year's bigger tuna if this is any indication:
http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/showthread.php?t=605838

ken

It was fine for the "small" fish this year.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i113/lazergunpewpew/fishing/tuna08.jpg

Same boat.

That latest fish is pushing 200.

Doesn't sound like 50# braid works that well for this year's bigger tuna if this is any indication:
http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/showthread.php?t=605838

ken

That fish isn't exactly standard fare for spin rods, including that one I only know of four landed in that size class on spin this year. Not really the ideal tuna if you want to possibly release on spin gear, no mattter what the braid. You're pretty much keeping that fish if you catch it.

50 is just fine if rigged right for the far more common 90 to 100 pound fish most are encountering.

thanks Pete and likwid...I have no clue how inches translates to weight :-)
Sounds like 68" = 200lbs and 58" = 100lbs?

thanks Pete and likwid...I have no clue how inches translates to weight :-)
Sounds like 68" = 200lbs and 58" = 100lbs?

Ruge & Terry's fish ran 155 dressed.

There's a formula to guestimate weight out there somewhere for tuna.

fwiw, on the west coast they have been using spinning rods for tuna for a long time. i know they catch fish over 200 lbs. on custom spinning rods. whether the rod is built as a jigger or spinning has little to do w/ how the rod will land a fish. it's more about the power of the rods being built on and more importantly, the drag power and capacity of the reels being used. they use shimano stellas from 14000 to 20000, penn 9500's, accurate, diawa's, etc., on the west coast. some of the new daiwa's have drags that are pushing 65lbs of pressure! that's pretty insane. i think van staal 250s-300s are being used around here as that is what more people have available for a reel w/ some capacity and that can handle the strain of a long run that these bft's give. price out one of those high end spinning reels and you're pushing close to or over a grand. most people are not going put out that kind of money for a reel and then have a rod built too. and, you'd be surprised how much pressure you can put on some of the custom rods the swe guys have now for this application.

additionally, the subject of tuna breakoffs and harming the fish, sure, it happens and i'm sure the outcome is not good for the fish. i'm willing to bet though that the people targeting this fishery may be a little better equipped on average than some of the people that show up and striped bass fish. i can probably estimate that on some of the more popular spots fished in south county/ri that many are undergunned to handle a 20# bass, nevermind one larger. how many of those fish get away? how about the anglers fishing rigs in the gulf and losing fish that go into the gear? it sucks, but i think there are many fisheries where this same argument could be brought up.

i feel the fishery will be on the esa in the not to distant future. corruption is deep in this industry for tuna. there is a lot of money at stake, so i'd be surprised if there was ever a moratorium on the fishery.

Ruge & Terry's fish ran 155 dressed.

There's a formula to guestimate weight out there somewhere for tuna.



Lenght x width x girth divide by 800

got my first tuna today...~120lbs...all i can say is i am glad i had the proper gear..(my surf gear would have exploded) ...even with that it almost took me 2 hrs to bring in...foul hooked no less in the dorsal fin!

http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/2008/08/tuna-on-the-brink/

Interesting hour of radio.

I actually caught the end of that on the radio.Thanks for the link Pete.

spinning gear works if you have the right set-up. put a 56" fish in the boat in 25 - 30 min saturday on a 65 Fin Nor with 50 pp 80 fluro, NWC

foul hooked in the dorsal fin puts the kabosh on a good set up...took me almost 2hrs...59"...

i can def see that foul hooked. yikes. we had a 58" take about 2 hours on a 30w same day. not foul hooked!

0 for 1

Golden a man of your stature and prominence should beat a 400lber in minutes!!!:hidin::hidin:

Still looking for number 70 for '08. Swing by when you are in the barrio.

matt, you're an animal :cheers:

As mentioned, today's spinning reels can apply the same pressure as what your 50W's are set for now.

Frankly IMO tuna have a much bigger problem then the release mortality from spinning gear...overfishing overseas. This needs to be fixed before releasing a few fish with trebles on spinning rods is going to have any significant effect on the biomass of the species.

Golden a man of your stature and prominence should beat a 400lber in minutes!!!:hidin::hidin:

Still looking for number 70 for '08. Swing by when you are in the barrio.

LOL KR - yes, the game would've been a bit shorter if i was on the rod the whole time - got a week or so to go before my wrist is completely healed. But, i was on it for the end game. with the spinning gear, we circled the fish and gained line, got him to the boat quicker. we could've hooked up all day out there - i'll let you know when we're going next

As mentioned, today's spinning reels can apply the same pressure as what your 50W's are set for now.


50vsw's put down 30lbs max strike drag and the moon is limit for max drag.

Avet T-Rex 50's will go up to 50ish lbs strike and over 100 max.

I don't think even the Accurate twin spin can come up to those numbers at max... But I could be wrong.

I think the big stella and saltiga can put a max of 65# of drag, which is a lot for a stand up. But as I casually said..." apply the same pressure as what your 50W's are set for now" Most reels are not anywhere near set to apply the max. Bottom line, a friend took a 220# Bigeye on one in less than an hour and a half. Its do-able for anything short of a real big giant.
IMO, the problem is you need to use braid to get the capacity. Fishing big fish with braid and high drags...you tend to loose more fish. You really can't put enough top shot of mono on a spinner so you really are in a pickle about putting alot of drag on. (This is just from my experience) So most guys I know put plenty of drag (but not maxed out)and end up chasing the fish down.

(I want to catch a nice wahoo on one...have you ever seen those things swim? JeeezzzUS! talk about a burst of speed!)