I have been concentrating on fishing needles this past week almost exclusively...have hooked into many fish (nothing super large) but last night i had a hook-up with a fish that i could not stop...felt a couple of 'bumps' prior to the big strike...and some of the hook-ups were real subtle...typical? seems like the 'take' on needles is different than many of the other plugs i use...thoughts?

Most the hits on needlefish are weak or the fish is just"there". Lost fish and treble hooks go together unfortunatly!

have had all types of hits on needles from the subtle fish on out of nowhere to all out hammered...

was just amazed at how subtle some of these hit and bumps were...

Doc,
Takes on needles can vary depending on many circumstances. They can vary depending on whether you’re using braid or mono or whether your line is tight or has a belly. I’ve found that when the prevalent baitfish is sand eels the takes can be very subtle. When forage is larger bait the takes tend to be more aggressive. A good friend of mine was using a Gibbs needlefish and thought he was hung up in bubble weed – the bubble weed started to pull back and a short time later he landed a 49 lb bass. He never felt anything but slight pressure as that bass slurped down that wooden sand eel as gracefully as a trout sipping a midge. Expect all sorts of takes on needlefish.

DZ

great i cant even figure out how to work the damn things right. and now yer tellin me if i did i might never know? :confused:

Doc,
Takes on needles can vary depending on many circumstances. They can vary depending on whether you’re using braid or mono or whether your line is tight or has a belly. I’ve found that when the prevalent baitfish is sand eels the takes can be very subtle. When forage is larger bait the takes tend to be more aggressive. A good friend of mine was using a Gibbs needlefish and thought he was hung up in bubble weed – the bubble weed started to pull back and a short time later he landed a 49 lb bass. He never felt anything but slight pressure as that bass slurped down that wooden sand eel as gracefully as a trout sipping a midge. Expect all sorts of takes on needlefish.

DZ

That is the most perfect description of needlefish hit types. DZ is a needle master.

99% of my fishig after July 1st is needlefish at night, once you have mastered them, there is nothing like them after dark.

thanks DZ! that describes my experience perfectly..that was what that fish that i could not stop did..slow steady weight on the end of the line, thought it was weed at first, lifted the rod...and the drag started singing...

I've never had a subtle hit when fishing a needle. I use braid and never give too much slack but then again I only use them about 50% of the time.

great i cant even figure out how to work the damn things right. and now yer tellin me if i did i might never know? :confused:

You DON'T work a needle.:tooth:
Just drag it through the water as slow as you can and try to stay awake. Every now and then you can give a little twitch or pause, just don't fish it fast or active.
As Hab's says, "If you aren't bored fishing a needle, you are doing it wrong."

You DON'T work a needle.:tooth:
Just drag it through the water as slow as you can and try to stay awake. Every now and then you can give a little twitch or pause, just don't fish it fast or active.
As Hab's says, "If you aren't bored fishing a needle, you are doing it wrong."

Woody,
In all due respect I think Hab may have been talking about fishing with his own brand of needlefish. Conventional wisdom may say to fish needles slow (and I do most of the time) - but there are often times when an unconventional approach is the way to success. There are a few needles that actually shine when fished at a quick pace, most notably the Super Strike. Needles are a versatile plug - those using them should also be versatile.

DZ

Woody,
In all due respect I think Hab may have been talking about fishing with his own brand of needlefish. Conventional wisdom may say to fish needles slow (and I do most of the time) - but there are often times when an unconventional approach is the way to success. There are a few needles that actually shine when fished at a quick pace, most notably the Super Strike. Needles are a versatile plug - those using them should also be versatile.

DZ

oh so confusing.. i have limited access to needles. the only one i have in my arsenal is a super strike i found in some rocks. and of course (as woody stated) habs' statement is ringing in my head every time i use it. "if you think your goin too slow, go slower." "if you arent bored fishing a needle, you're doing it wrong.".

but now yer telling me the one i have is best suited for fast retrieves. uggg! while we are here. could some one please try to explain the most sought after presentation. and NOT how to reel and twitch ect. but more of what i should be looking for it to do. i can figure out how to make it do it easier that way. than trying to count so many spins of the reel or time between twitches.
i've heard top water leaving wakes, slow drags on the bottom. dead straight in. with a slight wobble. and i'm sure they all have their own moments on certain days. but what is the standard? the results the get speak for themselves. so i would really love to figure these things out.
(sorry for the hijack. but its still about how needles work right?)

If you fish my stuff in the 2.5 oz and below, I and many others been very successful slow reeling, pause, twitch, continue reeling. Mix it up. Walk it like a dog and create some commotion then sucker them in with the seductive twitch. The 3.5 is a fast sinker so it works better on the bottom.

DZ said it all in his post.

I've been messing with needles this year and what I've learned is...

Different needles have different sink rates from the fast sinkers (i.e. Superstrike) to Floaters (i.e. Gibbs)

You need to play with a few different ones to figure out how they sink. Now the depth of the water being fished will dictate the retrieve speed, Fast sinkers will need to be retrieved faster than slow sinkers to maintain the same depth. so If you are fishing in 10 feet of water and the heavy ones are hitting bottom try a slower sinker at the same speed or speed up the retrieve of the fast sinker.

Current/Waves will also affect how you work the water column. the stronger the current/bigger the waves the slower you can go with the heavier needles to work the same depth and the lighter needles may end up being floaters if the current is to fast as well as if the water is too big the lighter ones will just get tossed around like twigs......you will need heavy needles to keep them running "True".

again this is what I'm figuring out about them....my needle knowledge is in its infancy. Hope this helps. And as I'm learning when it come to fishing......there is no such thing as "The Only Way to do It"

oh so confusing.. i have limited access to needles. the only one i have in my arsenal is a super strike i found in some rocks. and of course (as woody stated) habs' statement is ringing in my head every time i use it. "if you think your goin too slow, go slower." "if you arent bored fishing a needle, you're doing it wrong.".

but now yer telling me the one i have is best suited for fast retrieves. uggg! while we are here. could some one please try to explain the most sought after presentation. and NOT how to reel and twitch ect. but more of what i should be looking for it to do. i can figure out how to make it do it easier that way. than trying to count so many spins of the reel or time between twitches.
i've heard top water leaving wakes, slow drags on the bottom. dead straight in. with a slight wobble. and i'm sure they all have their own moments on certain days. but what is the standard? the results the get speak for themselves. so i would really love to figure these things out.
(sorry for the hijack. but its still about how needles work right?)

Hit the net.
Salty's are GREAT and he sells direct. Ditto After Hours. Surfcasting RI, a site sponsor, has Super Strikes. Search around and you'll find everything except the boutique brands like Beachmaster or Hab's, but you don't need those to catch on needles. My personal best ate a Salty's blurple with glow eyes with a slight peck of a strike a couple seasons ago, so don't be scared off by affordably priced needles.

Some sage advice on this thread. Give it all at try and see what works best for you!:uhuh:

W

thanks tdf and salty. (i do have access to one of yer 2.5s)

i understand the weight to depth/current factors.. i just cant figure out exactly what the lure it self is supposed to be doing. i was always under the impression that it was supposed to come in straight with no action. which never made sense to me unless it was topwater. as i have heard that sometimes just the v-wake is enough. after about 4 casts of that though i start with the twitches. it just doesn't seem right that a fish would chase a stick that did nothing. until just now though i had no idea what kind of action i was lookin for. now that i think about it. i suppose its pretty versatile. they are pretty much hard sluggos. and could probably be fished in just as many ways. hopefully some more insight when i get back from the surf. i'll give it a whirl while i'm there. can't hurt.

i just cant figure out exactly what the lure it self is supposed to be doing.


Kinda like when a Smokin Babe comes walking by....she saunters by slowly and as she goes by, and you look, you notice the sexiest little wiggle. :hee:

Go to a place with current in the daytime and dangle it in different speeds of current. Watch what it does.

just the v-wake is enough. after about 4 casts of that though i start with the twitches. it just doesn't seem right that a fish would chase a stick that did nothing.

I've always wondered that as well but I suspect it does a little underneath w/ the treble hooks and tail wiggling from the current and you're dragging it.
Some needlefish do wiggle more...the ones w/ the flat faces.
The less wiggle probably makes it look more like a wounded fish gasping for air.

Here is a link to a Needle article I wrote awhile back – hopefully it should be OK to post as it’s from a sponsor of this site.
http://www.saltwateredge.com/info/ZAM.html

I’ve never met a needlefish plug I didn’t like. All mentioned in this thread have produced for me and many others. Salty handed me a “full moon special” this winter that has more than lived up to his description. Received a few homemades from Numbskull that are now a staple in my plug bag which only carries 8 plugs – for George’s plug to break into my rotation says it all.

So much to learn and I haven’t even mentioned “soft needlefish” imitations that have quietly racked up some incredible scores for me and others.

One more thing about lack of action – even though your needlefish may not have any discernable wiggling - it’s still the right “action” to the bass.

DZ

What's a "full moon special"?

Speaking of needlefish plugs, nobody has mentioned Rhody's Mark Ducharme. He makes a great plug which often times out fishes all others.

What's a "full moon special"?

Coming from Salty that could be pretty scary

never mind.. now i have no needles.. :wall:
went out tossed a couple plugs in the rocks.. nothing on top of nothing.. so ok.. winds in my face. needle will sail on out there, and well i need to practice. tried all the above with twitches and what not variable speeds. nothin. but i noticed i could reach over the rocks into a bit deeper sandy bottom.. so lets see what happens when i drag it through the sand kickin up a sand trail.. 3 cranks into my second attempt with that. the unmistakable double tugg of a fish that couldnt commit. so now im excited! next cast, great im stuck on the edge of the rocks.. boink. knot of the leader gives. (i tried a new type i just learned :cens:) and now the needle is back in the EXACT same spot i found it. (give or take 50ft)
guess ill actually hafta buy a few now that i figured out a use for them.

and my buddy has that midnight special salty. i think i like it more than he does.. i think i tried trading the swimmer of the same paint type with him right after we bought them.

oh and hey DZ just finished reading that write up. good stuff. it actually filled in all the blanks i had when it comes to needles. thank you! :btu:

Which needles are considered sub surface similar to Gibb's needlefish.
Last night I was using swimmers with success catching schoolies unfortunately but then I decided to switch over to Superstrike needlefish. This area appears to be on the shallow calm side.
It didn't take many cast to realize that I needed to retrieve fast to not snag the bottom. I realize they are fast sinkers therefore I like to ask what are the top slowest sinking needlefish similar to the Gibbs. I don't really want to upgrade this Gibbs if there are better plugs.
I already have Habs & #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&s that I'll use the deeper rough water.

Which needles are considered sub surface similar to Gibb's needlefish.
Last night I was using swimmers with success catching schoolies unfortunately but then I decided to switch over to Superstrike needlefish. This area appears to be on the shallow calm side.
It didn't take many cast to realize that I needed to retrieve fast to not snag the bottom. I realize they are fast sinkers therefore I like to ask what are the top slowest sinking needlefish similar to the Gibbs. I don't really want to upgrade this Gibbs if there are better plugs.
I already have Habs & #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&s that I'll use the deeper rough water.

as i was shoppin around on swe for some new needles about an hour ago, i noticed R.M. Smith has a line of floating needles. but i dunno what the odds of getting yer hands on one are. (at least for a reasonable price)

slow sinkers include the afterhours, choopy's, and small salty's...

I think Afterhours also makes a line of floaters...

and after all this needle talk I'm heading out tonight for a couple hours with nothing but needles in the bag......:huh: we'll have to see what happens

I think Afterhours also makes a line of floaters...

and after all this needle talk I'm heading out tonight for a couple hours with nothing but needles in the bag......:huh: we'll have to see what happens

sounds like a plan to me! i had about $200 worth of needles ready to check out. with exactly that plan in mind. didn't press the nuke launch button. not yet. trying to work out some logistics. want to get a set of like sized lengthwise. but not sure what weight sizes to get on the different brands. i want to build an arsenal of similar size and colors. then go figuring out which works best and when. maybe i can finally ween myself off jointed every things.

sounds like a plan to me! i had about $200 worth of needles ready to check out. with exactly that plan in mind. didn't press the nuke launch button. not yet. trying to work out some logistics. want to get a set of like sized lengthwise. but not sure what weight sizes to get on the different brands. i want to build an arsenal of similar size and colors. then go figuring out which works best and when. maybe i can finally ween myself off jointed every things.

You might want to take a different approach and start off by buying some needles of different sizes, sink rates, weights, etc... You don't need a bunch of all the same size.

I usually carry a stubby, a floater a moderate sinker and occasionally a fast sinker for the conditions I fish. That way, I have different profiles and different depths covered.

What's a "full moon special"?


Steve,

Salty Bugger gave me one that is very dark blue/purpleish with glow eyes and reflective tint in the finish. I don't normally use dark patterns during the bright moon but his needle has produced well. Not sure what pattern he calls it but the phrase "full moon special" is my description of it. Salty? Chime in.

As far as Ducharmes Needles - some good things are best left in my bag. Geez their good.

DZ

That was either a predator or a turquoise fire. I've not ever seen anyone use this stuff on wood before. It's very expensive but you've seen the results Dennis. I'll wait and ask for a report of how it worked for you at the next RISAA show. I figured you'd like that needle.

I kinda liked the full moon special aspect :)

Steve,
As far as Ducharmes Needles - some good things are best left in my bag. Geez their good.

DZ

Yes they are....

Here is a link to a Needle article I wrote awhile back – hopefully it should be OK to post as it’s from a sponsor of this site.
http://www.saltwateredge.com/info/ZAM.html

I’ve never met a needlefish
DZ

Thanks for the link and enjoyed the read.

You might want to take a different approach and start off by buying some needles of different sizes, sink rates, weights, etc... You don't need a bunch of all the same size.

I usually carry a stubby, a floater a moderate sinker and occasionally a fast sinker for the conditions I fish. That way, I have different profiles and different depths covered.

well thats my plan (minus the stubby) i want them all the same size length wise though. different sinks rates and actions. but all relatively the same size with some matching colors. (basically using the bottom of the DZ's article. as a base collection) then once i find something that produces something in a certain situation. i can start experimenting with sizes and such. instead of having one big floating green one or one small sinking black one. because then being new i cant really determine what cause the bite. was it the size? was it the color? was it the depth? i dont know cause each one was completely different.

where as if they are the same size. thats a factored out. then i would assume find the color that gets the most attention. then figure out depth. though i suppose that could be worked in reverse. and once i find out best combination of those two for a spot. i can get more of that color and depth in a different length and find the magic size.
its just how i gotta do it. cause i gotta start from scratch.

p.s. boy i'm gabby today. i havent talked much all season and now its all bursting out. getting excited for fall since things are finally starting to happen around here. :jump:

have had all types of hits on needles from the subtle fish on out of nowhere to all out hammered...

I agree 100 percent.

Think what you will but most of the needlefish in my bag are Gags. The earlier models with a slightly stubby nose have produced very well for me over the years, this year especially.

For the areas mostlyI fish they fit the bill nicely, I do carry an extensive assortment of others in my truck at all times though and for the outer Cape, at the tide I favor, Gibbs standard seven inch work very well. I will tell you this year white and yellow have been the top producers new moon or full.

Often times a quick snap of the rod tip during that oh so slow retrieve will get a following fish to take when you know fish are there but won't commit.

My personal favorite needle presentation is cutting a small vee wake across the surface.

I am a needle addict. Once you figured out the routine, it's just amazing how productive they can be.

Speaking of needlefish plugs, nobody has mentioned Rhody's Mark Ducharme. He makes a great plug which often times out fishes all others.

Steve, I'm a fan of Mark's needlefish, but the only place I've seen them retailed is at Twin Maples on BI. Does anyone on the mainland sell his lures?

#^&#^&#^&#^&- Sam's bait and tackle in middletown has them