Just got this email from Save the Bay. Not an expert by any means, but I disagree with their assesment. Bunker are not the smartest creatures in the world and faced with hungry bluefish or boat traffic, they moved into areas of low oxygen. I dont think this reflects the health of the bay at all, its normal for low water, in tidal areas far from the open water to be low in oxygen. I grew up in CT and it was routine to see hundreds of bunker dead at low tide due. Just my 2 cents but I think save the bay is making an issue out of something that is normal.

email:
On the 5th anniversary of the horrific 2003 Greenwich Bay fish and clam kill, more bad news surfaced today as Save The Bay responded to a fish kill in Wickford Cove. We found approximately 1,000 dead adult menhaden in what appears to be another clear sign that Bay conditions continue to deteriorate. John Torgan has a video report from the scene.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGIuUz4Z8-g

Jim--
Been seeing dead and dying pogies each time out for the past few time I've been...Not huge numbers, but enough. It may be because pogies aren't very smart, but I still don't like to see it.

It is not that uncommon or unnatural. Especially with lots of freshwater and heat.

FWIW if the bay isn't deteriorating, STB is out of a job...

Wickford Cove isn't exactly a bastion of water circulation...

They are as bad as the PETA morons! If the wind blows it must be a hurricane!

Larry,
STB isn't all bad..
just misguided on some issues.
they do a lot for education, and habitat restoration in the Bay.....

But instead of understanding that this more than likely is a natural manifestation, they automatically attribute it to pollution! Very ill informed folks!

Truthfully,
it is probably a combination.
Heavy rain and hot weather + run off from fertilizer and other chemicals = possible algal bloom = possible low/no oxygen = fish kill.
at least thats the way I understand it.

So pollution could have contributed. I just think they are making abigger deal out of one little cove/fish kill

Truthfully,
it is probably a combination.
Heavy rain and hot weather + run off from fertilizer and other chemicals = possible algal bloom = possible low/no oxygen = fish kill.
at least thats the way I understand it.

So pollution could have contributed. I just think they are making abigger deal out of one little cove/fish kill

Heck, it could also be the result of stress casued by blues and bass attacking the school, causing the fish to exhaust themselves. THEN the water quality / low O2 factor might be more plausible.

But instead of understanding that this more than likely is a natural manifestation, they automatically attribute it to pollution! Very ill informed folks!

How many times this year have beaches had to be closed in RI due to "High bacteria levels" in the water. You do realize that those closures are due to high levels of human waste in the water???

I personally feel that you're are not giving STB enough credit for what they have done in the last 20-30 years. The bay would be a very different place without them.

I have heard John Torgan speak, he sees both sides of the situation and is very well informed. I understand it's a hot political issue, but please don't jump down their throats unless you know for a fact that pollution had nothing to do with the kill.

They seem to think pollution had everything to do with the kill? Seems we have a bit of a conundrum? :huh:

Wow look at all those pretty homes up that area with the pretty lawns.
I wonder how they keep them so green. :cens:

They fertilize with dead pogies!:smash:

How many times this year have beaches had to be closed in RI due to "High bacteria levels" in the water. You do realize that those closures are due to high levels of human waste in the water???

I personally feel that you're are not giving STB enough credit for what they have done in the last 20-30 years. The bay would be a very different place without them.

I have heard John Torgan speak, he sees both sides of the situation and is very well informed. I understand it's a hot political issue, but please don't jump down their throats unless you know for a fact that pollution had nothing to do with the kill.

There are a couple of factors that add way more to the BOD than human waste (mostly eliminated from flowing directly into bodies of water in the United States) One of them is excess fertilizer and the other is your pet dog or cat. Both are carried thru stormwater drains directly into the water.

SPOT on for sure. Not just related to Wickford it's worldwide.

I got a Scott's CRABGRASS lawn. No more 5 times a year fertilizer and haven't since I move out of Hudson.

Truthfully,
it is probably a combination.
Heavy rain and hot weather + run off from fertilizer and other chemicals = possible algal bloom = possible low/no oxygen = fish kill.
at least thats the way I understand it.

So pollution could have contributed. I just think they are making abigger deal out of one little cove/fish kill

There are a couple of factors that add way more to the BOD than human waste (mostly eliminated from flowing directly into bodies of water in the United States) One of them is excess fertilizer and the other is your pet dog or cat. Both are carried thru stormwater drains directly into the water.

Agreed... but it is my understanding, and I could be wrong, that strong storms in the Providence area cause the waste water treatment facility to be maxed out allowing raw sewage to leak into the bay. I'm pretty sure they're working on fixing the problem, but it is a major undertaking and not done yet.

Those fish have been in brackish water deep inside tha harbor for at least a month. The water is pee warm and has very little oxygen.
Stuff happens. I am no expert, just an observer.

The wastewater overflow is a problem in many communities. i would think that most major bays that have a city or 2 on em have problems when there is a lot of rain. I know in my quaint NE town of sturbridge when we get a ton of rain the quinneboug river gets the runs.

Its kind of ironic to see someone who's livelihood is based on fisheries slagging on fish kills and groups that are trying to make the bay better for everyone, including fishermen.

Probably #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& emptying his live well. ;)

DZ

I didnt mean to start a slam the save the bay discusson. The reality in my mind and Jonas can relate is that in Wickford, come July, I can't keep bunker in my pen in my slip overnight becasue they will all die. Yet I can do that from May - June. Does the water suddenly become polluted in July? Wickford has a lot of back water coves and does not see a lot of fresh (oxygenated ) water coming in to these coves. I think thats the main reason for the fishkill. To offset the bunker issue, in the EXACT same areas, there are and will continue to be billions of snapper blues around. Wouldnt they, and the shiners they feed on, also die or leave the coves?
Just my uninformed 2 cents, as P23 says, I am an observer and have little scientific backing, but sometimes you CAN see the forest for the trees.

Bunker Like doody..U wanna find em look for effluent outflows..
They are stupid, they do the same thing down here..

Agreed... but it is my understanding, and I could be wrong, that strong storms in the Providence area cause the waste water treatment facility to be maxed out allowing raw sewage to leak into the bay. I'm pretty sure they're working on fixing the problem, but it is a major undertaking and not done yet.

This is the same problem we have in Boston, despite the "state of the art" wastewater treatment plant on Deer Island. You should see some of the culverts along the lower Charles and the Mystic spewing generous mixtures of gutter wash, litter, oils and untreated sewage. The system gets overloaded and the wastewater ends up in the Harbor. You can see it yourself, the Harbor is green on better days. On those wetter days, water at Wollaston beach looks like water breaking over a sandbar on the mississippi. The difference is even more stark after a trip a few miles off shore and you return to the inner harbor. Its amazing how much cleaner the water is on the other side of Islands.

there is going to be another 10,000 dead any day now. Today, the bunker were in way up in my slip, circling around, another 50,000 (guess) were in a shallow cove being creamed by bluefish, the poor bastards could not even get out if they tried. Some were in inches of water. Many swimming around with chunks taken out of them. Dead ones floating everywhere. The gulls were so stuffed, they werent even eating the bunker. Such a waste of good bait!

i live close enough to the part of the cove where they filmed that video to smell the dead fish. i definetly agree that the kill is more due to the fact that the blues are chasing them into skinny brackish water and they are trying to stay in these back coves instead of moving with the tides. i fish down in the harbor almost every night and the blues have been absolutely masacreing them for almost a month now. i was at town beach one morning and they were being chased onto the sand at my feet. i didnt have to snag any of them i just picked them up off the beach and kicked the rest back into the water. there is so much pressure put on these fish that they are ending up in nearly uninhabitable conditions.

Fishkills happen. The school gets ino a confined area and there are so many they deplete the oxygen themselves. could happen even if the waterhad plenty of oxygen when the schhol came in.

I once saw one where so many bunker came in and oxygendropped so low that the crabs climbed out of the water to get some air. of course the fish all died.

anyway , i think a fishkill like this is normal and not at all related to water pollution