Got to admit this was a stong move by the Obama campaign. Biden brings a lot to the team and Obama has a strong enough personality that he won't be dwarfed by Biden's own huge presence.

A challenge for me as a love Joe Biden but don't see myself voting for Obama.

So who does McCain pick? I'm thinking Romney...he needs someone that moderates can warm up to, has business experience and is known on the national stage.

-spence

I've always found Biden to be nothing but a loudmouth talking head.I would've liked Obama to pick Reed,his military experience and backround go a long way with me.

I can see McCain going with Lieberman.That would be a good balance I think.But you're right about Romney.

It just sucks that there's no real viable ticket as far as I'm concerned.I don't like the idea of abstaining,but if I were forced to choose I think it would have to be McCain(Lieberman).

The next 4 years are certainly going to be a trip regardless of who's in office.

Condi Rice would be the perfect choice although she probably isn't even a thought.

I've always found Biden to be nothing but a loudmouth talking head.
He certainly has a big mouth, but if you listen to what he says it's clear he's one of the brightest in Congress and has a very good grasp of our foreign challenges.

I'll take substance over personality here.

Besides, he's always very well dressed :smokin:

-spence

Bringing a very experienced person from an area where many say Obama is lacking is smart... Good move Obama..

Cheney is not relinquishing power.

Cheney is not relinquishing power.

I think the visceral reaction to Obama among some of the Right is so violent I could see people going to any means to keep him from office. This could get ugly...

-spence

Cheney is not relinquishing power.

Perhaps a few orange alerts followed by a state of emergency will help him stay in power longer....

We're about due for a not-so-smooth transition of power. What's one more flaunt of the Constitution anyway?

Plagiarist, bigot.

God I love Biden.. :buds:

http://www.youtube.com/swf/l.swf?video_id=v1op8vwF5UA&rel=1&eurl=http%3A//

I just can't get that Clarence Thomas hearing with Biden and Kennedy pissing at each other out of my head.
Biden is, well, not my choice for change.
I really wonder how many of Obama's ideas he is ready to champion thru the Senate and Congress

I agree I think Biden was the best choice out of the bunch..... God, that's pathetic.

Plagiarist, bigot.
You are a deep, deep thinker.

-spence

I agree Biden is the best choice, especially with the international experience. There is no way in hell McCain can choose Liberman, he is already someone that does not unify his base, choosing a Dem will have 50% of the repub party staying home on election day.

You are a deep, deep thinker.

-spence

Don't take it the wrong way Einstein, I'm very pleased with his VP choice.

I agree Biden is the best choice, especially with the international experience. There is no way in hell McCain can choose Liberman, he is already someone that does not unify his base, choosing a Dem will have 50% of the repub party staying home on election day.

I am thinking a Polaroid Moment with Mitt!!
Polaroid out of the film business, we'll have to miss that hopefully.

I got a feeling something is going to happen to prevent Obama from becoming president - and not losing the election. He's got that Bobby Kennedy/Benazir Bhutto thing going on where it looks a little too much like he might actually try and change things.

so your saying JB will eventually be promoted to President...:wall:

because of some KKK guy that was hidden behind a grassy knoll

that wouldn't be so hard to imagine..... i guess

but it would make the Rodney king riots in L.A. seem like
a game of Senoir Citizen BINGO ....gone spastic...

the best thing that could happen imho would be to see
Bill Richardson
appointed to secretary of State to handle foreign affairs

and if JM gets elected...

Mitt Romey would be the greatest financial politician ever appointed
to office ...if he were able to take control the USA Budget

I think he'll either get shot before he takes office or some national emergency will postpone the appointment of a new president. I got a bad feeling watching him yesterday at that outdoor rally with Biden - could have easily been shot. There's still a lot of hardcore racists.

I got a feeling something is going to happen to prevent Obama from becoming president - and not losing the election. He's got that Bobby Kennedy/Benazir Bhutto thing going on where it looks a little too much like he might actually try and change things.

:smash:
yeah, he'll change things all right.

High powered rifle sales are through the roof :hihi:

He gets my vote as the canidate most likely to get shot. He's an assassination out of central casting.

I got a feeling something is going to happen to prevent Obama from becoming president - and not losing the election. He's got that Bobby Kennedy/Benazir Bhutto thing going on where it looks a little too much like he might actually try and change things.

now he's laughin it up with teddy ....so it's a weird time is right on the money Joe.. that feeling you have.

I've always found Biden to be nothing but a loudmouth talking head.I would've liked Obama to pick Reed,his military experience and backround go a long way with me.

I can see McCain going with Lieberman.That would be a good balance I think.But you're right about Romney.

It just sucks that there's no real viable ticket as far as I'm concerned.I don't like the idea of abstaining,but if I were forced to choose I think it would have to be McCain(Lieberman).

The next 4 years are certainly going to be a trip regardless of who's in office.

Yeah, I love how Biden gets pegged as a hot head who speaks his mind good or bad... isn't that supposed to be one of McCain's selling points (speaking his mind)?

McCain Romney seems the most logical. If he picks Lieberman or Ridge (centrist R or independents) he'll lost his base on the far right.. he needs a 'true conservative'
regardless, we'll have 4 more years of what we have now if Bushcain gets elected...

As far as Biden being a bigot and a plagariest. Everyone has skeletons... Didn't McCain just use the term gook to reporters???

Joe;
It's a shame that is even a thought in this day and age, that we haven't moved beyond that kind of BS.

I hope you are wrong.

Yeah, I love how Biden gets pegged as a hot head who speaks his mind good or bad... isn't that supposed to be one of McCain's selling points (speaking his mind)?

McCain Romney seems the most logical. If he picks Lieberman or Ridge (centrist R or independents) he'll lost his base on the far right.. he needs a 'true conservative'
regardless, we'll have 4 more years of what we have now if Bushcain gets elected...

As far as Biden being a bigot and a plagariest. Everyone has skeletons... Didn't McCain just use the term gook to reporters???

Joe;
It's a shame that is even a thought in this day and age, that we haven't moved beyond that kind of BS.

I hope you are wrong.


Saying that we will have more of the same "Bushcain" is BS. It's like saying we will have another Kennedy/Pelousi if Obama gets in. I wish you Bush haters would grow the F up. Most of you do't even know why you hate him.You just think because this site seems to have a fair share of libs it's cool to say it. Not saying that's why you say it, just getting tired of the lack of respect. Most of us couldn't sit in the meetings and deal with the day to day stress and decisions that the President makes. Most of us don't work as hard as he does. Most of you intellects couldn't hold your own in a debate with the man. And non of you have the life accomplishments that he has. Don't say that he got it handed to him, that's BS too. Think Kennedy again.

Yeah, we are all mindless bush haters because it is cool.
Bush and McCain are very similar on most issues, so to think we won't have a very similar administration is silly. I respect McCain as a person and soldier. period. I happen to disagree with most of his policies, so I can't vote for him.

Do I respect the job? yes. Do I respect bush? Not nearly as much as most others who have held that post in my lifetime. I never have claimed to think I could do the job. period. I don't think anyone else here has.

I don't respect the policies, and position Bush has put the country in, and frankly I think that regardless of who is elected the Bush administration is leaving the next team a pretty big pile of problems.

one thing to add, Romney is an extremely succesful business man and strategist. As the economy is a top issue, he is really the only person that has an edge on this. Obama, McCain, Biden, are lawyers and career politicians. Romney was self made and is a squeaky clean family man. I think in the VP debates he would destoy Biden.

What experience does Romney bring to the Republican ticket? Other than using the Big Dig fiasco when the roof collapsed on that poor woman, has he any international/national security background? No. The only reason Lieberman is a consideration is that he favors strongly the war in Iraq and Afghanistan because of personal issues, he is jewish and Israel and it's security is more important a factor in his way of thinking than most will admit. Other than that what has he got to offer?

I think Biden was the only choice the DNC would agree too support for some of the reasons noted before in this thread, yeah he speaks his mind and sometimes puts his foot in it, tell me someone who hasn't done that before. I think his being the National Security chairman in the senate gives credibility to Obama's ticket and Obama will listen to advice Biden gives on issues of that nature, this naturally strengthens the party's chances. Don't forget Biden's Pennsylvania roots and Delaware residency, states Obama needs to win to win it all.

And lastly, sadly, the DNC knows that there is a very real possibility that some racist kook might just take a shot at Obama and may very well succeed. Obama is going to need an Obama Mobile like the Pope has, sad but true as it is. If that happens, and hopefully never will, the chaos created when an American President is cut down is looked on as a huge advantage for those willing to sieze the moment and further promote chaos, like say.....AlQaida, the Taliban, The Russians, the Chinese, Hugo Chaves in Venezuela and a bunch of other bananas in that bunch. If Biden were called upon to take the oath of office in a sad hour as that at least he would be ahead on the international learning curve.

Could you see Romney in a position such as that? Now that is a scary thought.

Flap, I couldnt disagree more. I beleieve that successful business people know way more about politics and diplomacy. Very few politicians have one on one negotiations and are held directly accountable for producing results.

I can take your argument and RIRock against you - What experience has Obama had in international? And,,if Biden is so experienced, why arent you holding him accountable for the current state? ( I know, I know, its all Bush's fault)

a little more on what Romney brings to the ticket, remember, teh economy is NUMBER 1 on the biggest issues right now for voters......
1.In 1975, Romney graduated from a joint Juris Doctor/Master of Business Administration program coordinated between Harvard Law School and Harvard Business School. He graduated cum laude from the law school and was named a Baker Scholar for graduating in the top five percent of his business school class
2. Romney left Bain & Company to co-found a spin-off private equity investment firm, Bain Capital.During the 14 years he headed the company, Bain Capital's average annual internal rate of return on realized investments was 113 percent, making money primarily through leveraged buyouts
3. In 1990, Romney was asked to return to Bain & Company, which was facing financial collapse. As CEO, Romney managed an effort to restructure the firm's employee stock-ownership plan, real-estate deals and bank loans, while increasing fiscal transparency. Within a year, he had led Bain & Company through a highly successful turnaround and returned the firm to profitability without layoffs or partner defections
4.Romney served as president and CEO of the 2002 Olympic Winter Games held in Salt Lake City. In 1999, before Romney was hired, the event was running $379 million short of its revenue benchmarks. Plans were being made to scale back the games in order to compensate for the fiscal crisis.[On February 11, 1999, Romney was hired as the new president and CEO of the Salt Lake Organizing Committee.Romney revamped the organization's leadership and policies, reduced budgets and boosted fundraising. He also worked to ensure the safety of the Games following the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 by coordinating a $300 million security budget. Despite the initial fiscal shortfall, the Games ended up clearing a profit of $100 million, not counting the $224.5 million in

Pretty impressive, and this has nothing to do with political crap, these are results delivered by Romney. Not sitting on committees. remember, Senators dont lead, they represent. Very different skill sets, you can't deny Romney is a great leader, he produces results.

I have no defense for the Obama comment Jim. I do believe he has the forethought to surround himself with intelligent people with experience. But I do not think 1 run on the foreign relations commitee counts either. I'm not a sheep, I do realize he has flaws as a candidate and as a president! My first choice was Richardson in the earliest campaigns.

I think GWB surrounded himself primarily with people who agreed with (and in some cases pushed) their interests and ideals. I don't see that happening with B.O.,

As far as holding Biden responsible, he did vote for the war. I'm not crazy about that. I like the fact that he is opinionated, experienced and has enough backbone to no just toe the company line.

Bidens background - He has been in the Senate since he was 30....career politician, sounds like the same old government Obama is running against?
In 1969, Biden began practicing law in Wilmington, Delaware, and was soon elected to the New Castle County, County Council, where he served from 1970 to 1972.

The 1972 U.S. Senate election presented Biden with a unique opportunity. Popular Republican incumbent Senator J. Caleb Boggs was considering retirement, which would likely have left U.S. Representative Pete du Pont and Wilmington Mayor Harry G. Haskell, Jr. in a divisive primary fight. To avoid that, U.S. President Richard M. Nixon was invited to a meeting to convince Boggs to run again with full Republican support. Boggs ran, but Biden eventually won


whats Bidens take on Iraq? nothing too radical here....sounds a little like McCain?
Following the September 11, 2001 attacks, Biden was supportive of the Bush administration's efforts, calling for additional ground troops in Afghanistan and agreeing that Saddam Hussein was a threat that needed to be dealt with.[22] The Bush administration rejected an effort Biden undertook with Senator Richard Lugar to pass a resolution authorizing military action only after the exhaustion of diplomatic efforts. In October 2002, Biden voted for the final resolution to support the War in Iraq. He has long supported the appropriations to pay for the occupation, but has argued repeatedly that more soldiers are needed, the war should be internationalized, and the Bush administration should "level with the American people" about the cost and length of the conflict.[23]

Biden is a leading advocate for partitioning Iraq.[24] In November 2006, Biden and Leslie Gelb, President Emeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, released a comprehensive strategy to end sectarian violence in Iraq. Rather than continuing the present approach or withdrawing, the plan calls for "a third way": federalizing Iraq and giving Kurds, Shiites, and Sunnis "breathing room" in their own regions.[25] Senior military planners cautioned that a partition policy would require American military presence of 75,000 to 100,000 troops for years to come.[24]

Flap, I couldnt disagree more. I beleieve that successful business people know way more about politics and diplomacy. Very few politicians have one on one negotiations and are held directly accountable for producing results.

I can take your argument and RIRock against you - What experience has Obama had in international? And,,if Biden is so experienced, why arent you holding him accountable for the current state? ( I know, I know, its all Bush's fault)

Jimmy, the difference is that in business a leader makes tough decisions where people may loose thier jobs to keep the bottom line from going to far south (where thier jobs will probably go to keep the company afloat as in south of the border) but no one dies as a result and that is a decision, no matter how much business acumen you may have acquired since you left Harvard, ran the Olympics or whatever, that requires a different kind of knowledge which is a true understanding of the threats to our national security.

I might trust Romney to make a business decision but not a national policy one and McCain was born into a warrior cult, his old man an Admiral and the Naval Academy etc, but that kind of mentality will only lead to further trouble for our already overstretched military and budget defict. Our international standing is in the dumpster and like it or not we have to face that fact. It is time, indeed it's overdue yime to become a partner, a respected partner in the world community, for our national security and our nations economy.

International diplomacy is the only way to regain our proper place as the free worlds leader.

It is time, indeed it's overdue yime to become a partner, a respected partner in the world community, for our national security and our nations economy.

International diplomacy is the only way to regain our proper place as the free worlds leader.


I appreciate and respect your thoughts on this, but I am of the mindset that this country has and will always be, disliked by other countries. We have been the envy of the world for generations and countries only "like" us when they need us.
Someone, maybe Churchill said it best and Im messing the quote up but -, Countries dont have friends, they have interests and they need to protect and further their interests.

I think the same applies in the business world and you cannot be succuesful, which Romney is, without diplomacy and relationship building.

i've said it before,

http://www.striped-bass.com/Stripertalk/showpost.php?p=112326&postcount=3

i'll say it again...

Mitt is an empty suit... if McCain picks romney... beware.. (and I doubt he will.. you can see the vibe is not good when they are near each other)...
The man should not be allowed anywhere near public office, or allowed to hold the public trust.... while we have not had any stellar leaders of late... Mitt is definately the dimmest bulb in the chandelier....

Im in an odd place defending Romney, but how can you call him an empty suit? The results of his work are obvious, I mean he didnt inherit the 300 mil worth. He knows what he is doing, no?

After the Past 8 years I'd vote for the Three Stooges. We need a change in the way this Country handles it's self and we need it now. We aren't the superpower we think we are and the whole worle knows it. If we keep up with the bluster and BS we're gonna get a smackdown royal. Russia just laughed in our faces this month. They know. New orleans sank like Atlantis, I think that was noticed aroud the globe. We have some serious work to do to regain our stature and trust on this planet. And that means a better way of doing business. I hear only one POSITIVE voice out there, saying YES we CAN.. My 2 cents..

After the Past 8 years I'd vote for the Three Stooges. We need a change in the way this Country handles it's self and we need it now. We aren't the superpower we think we are and the whole worle knows it. If we keep up with the bluster and BS we're gonna get a smackdown royal. Russia just laughed in our faces this month. They know. New orleans sank like Atlantis, I think that was noticed aroud the globe. We have some serious work to do to regain our stature and trust on this planet. And that means a better way of doing business. I hear only one POSITIVE voice out there, saying YES we CAN.. My 2 cents..
Amen to all of that :uhuh:

-spence

Yes! We can! :jump1: :bounce::yak6:

I appreciate and respect your thoughts on this, but I am of the mindset that this country has and will always be, disliked by other countries. We have been the envy of the world for generations and countries only "like" us when they need us.
Someone, maybe Churchill said it best and Im messing the quote up but -, Countries dont have friends, they have interests and they need to protect and further their interests.

I think the same applies in the business world and you cannot be succuesful, which Romney is, without diplomacy and relationship building.

Churchill was wise beyond his years and why he was put out of office as soon as the war was over I will never understand. I have several books in my modest library of his words, letters and writings, one of the most poignant was when he was told at just after 8 in the evening of December 7th, 1941 that the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor, he went to bed and slept peacefully the whole night through, which he had not done since September 1939, knowing that the United States was now going to be declaring war on Japan and thus through the axis, Germany and by doing so England would now never be invaded and ultimately, with the United States help, the Alllied Powers would win the war.

Problem is, most Americans view themselves as being potential victims of people like Mr. Romney rather than find him admirable. They are afraid some guy with nice hair will head up a consortium, buy the place they work, and sh-t can them.
It's a matter of food-chain perspective: If you get the Wall St Journal, you're a professional, and you're making big bucks, he's admirable. If you lost your manufacturing job in Ohio or Pennsylvania and you've been out of work ever since - you see him as a snake.
More people admire someone who would pass up a fast-track career in business and work in outreach programs.

After the Past 8 years I'd vote for the Three Stooges. We need a change in the way this Country handles it's self and we need it now. We aren't the superpower we think we are and the whole worle knows it. If we keep up with the bluster and BS we're gonna get a smackdown royal. Russia just laughed in our faces this month. They know. New orleans sank like Atlantis, I think that was noticed aroud the globe. We have some serious work to do to regain our stature and trust on this planet. And that means a better way of doing business. I hear only one POSITIVE voice out there, saying YES we CAN.. My 2 cents..

so tiring,,,,Katrina
Democratic Mayor, Democratic Governor........oh wait! Its a woman and a black man! Can't blame them.......Bush Sucks! Bush Sucks! Give it a rest and don't follow the media hype.

Churchill was wise beyond his years and why he was put out of office as soon as the war was over I will never understand. I have several books in my modest library of his words, letters and writings, one of the most poignant was when he was told at just after 8 in the evening of December 7th, 1941 that the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor, he went to bed and slept peacefully the whole night through, which he had not done since September 1939, knowing that the United States was now going to be declaring war on Japan and thus through the axis, Germany and by doing so England would now never be invaded and ultimately, with the United States help, the Alllied Powers would win the war.

The BS of history FLap! Germany had NO sizable Navy, no ports to launch a large scale invasion on England, no way to transport troops to England and NO plans to build any. England was never in danger of German invasion. the air battle of Britian was purely to break the spirits of the British people and get them out of the war. Germany did not want a war with Biritan or the US.There would never have been a world war if England had not guaranteed Poland, whihc empowered the Poles to not negotoate with Hitler over Danzig and the Polish Corridor. We are only taught in school one side of the story

Yes! We can! :jump1: :bounce::yak6:
Do you think change is necessary?

-spence

Der Fuher saw the English people as Aryans, it's all there in Mein Kampf, man.

Der Fuher saw the English people as Aryans, it's all there in Mein Kampf, man.

true. Hitler was after the Russians. How awesome would it have been for the "good" guys if Hitler and Stalin destroyed each other for a few years?

yeah.. that would have been awesome... Millions of more..... DEAD..

yeah.. that would have been awesome... Millions of more..... DEAD..

wrong.
Hitler did fight Stalin. Russia did 20X more to defeat Germany WHat it would have avoided is France, England, India, Australia,Canada and the US involvemnet in the War.
Nebe, everyone says the good guys won World War II. The reason is, no one asks Poland, The Balkans, Czeckoslavakia, etc. They were free countries prior to WWII, post WWII they were under the iron curtain where the horrors of Hitler were still practiced in secret. Stalin was just as bad as Hitler. Post WWII, Stalin gained more land than anyone. So who won?
The point is WWII costs the lives of 55 million people. Was it all just to defeat Hitler? Makes no sense. It was because of bad moves by England and France which created a path to a World War.
To Flap point above, Churchill could sleep easy once teh US joined teh War, same deal as WWI. Once we joined, Gremany knew there was NO way they could win, so what happened next. The Final Solution - extermination of teh Jews. Hitlers strategy was initially to drive the Jews out, but after the US joined, in desperation, we had the Holocasut. Its not to far fetched to say the Holocaust could have been avoided if England stayed out of the War. Food for thought

Do you think change is necessary?

-spence

Change to what, from what?

One thing I know for certain is I will never, ever seek "inspiration" from a politician.

Change to what, from what?

One thing I know for certain is I will never, ever seek "inspiration" from a politician.

They don't care. They just want change, be it blind, reckless, uniformed, experimental....

They don't care. They just want change, be it blind, reckless, uniformed, experimental....
I think that's exactly the point...

The leading conservative voices have become so focused on hating progressive policy that they have convinced themselves that the present trajectory of the USA is sound.

Any big picture problems that may ultimately require a Government backed long-term solution (and regulation) are instantly labeled "non-issues" because they can't reconcile reality with their idiology.

Instead, the "free market" is tasked with solving global challenges...and in return we get solutions to problems that are singularly focused on delivering short-term shareholder value.

This planet has big problems in terms of energy, climate and natural resources. Business as usual is very likely going to mean the death of the American dream this century, unless things change.

So before you identify the right change, you first must accept that things do indeed need to change.

Otherwise you're just going to spin your wheels.

-spence

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTxMsWa9nNQ

A Senate Bill to recognize that the Surge has "worked".

I know the Dems have done similarly dumb things, but this is really stupid.

-spence

I think its just a ploy to corner Obama.

I think its just a ploy to corner Obama.
Ummm, duh :huh:

-spence

just saying.....jeez

just saying.....jeez
You'll get no quarter from me bub :hihi:

Next we'll see a Senate resolution stating that "We have respect and honor for our fallen troops, and that the Iraq war was a brilliantly executed and fantastic idea and George Bush is wonderful".

-spence

now now, this ad was to benefit your guy.
Bush is past history