Anybody watch? It was quite a let down really, and can't feel good to be upstaged by your VP pick :)

The Cindy McCain story was pretty amusing. I guess if we all grew up incredibly rich we could do more social work as well. Perhaps instead they should have talked about the blue collar slobs who drove her father's beer trucks.

John McCains speech seemed to be the same GOP rhetoric, but nothing really new. I want to know how the Republicans think they're better prepared to lead this nation given the BIG challenges we're going to face this decade. Didn't hear it.

Instead of his experience in the Senate, he focused mostly on his time as a POW. Great, we all know and respect that time. I think it also speaks volumes about McCains fortitude and spirit. But at the convention it was used as a crutch.

I'm also quite amused at McCain's calls to end divisive politics, after 4 days of nothing but, culminating with Lindsy Graham, someone who I actually like, remarking that Obama's policy requires falure. Sounds pretty constructive to me.

At the same time, Palin is making public remarks against dailykos, the ultra left wing blog that tried to break the babygate story resulting in Palin fessing up about her daugher's own pregnancy. I guess when you see windmills...

So John, I'm trying to like you again, but you just ain't doing it for me. Nobody seems to be actually...

What say you?

-spence

I was more amused at the crowd chanting USA every time he mentioned the problems we face right now (jobs foreclosures etc..).

I was more amused at the crowd chanting USA every time he mentioned the problems we face right now (jobs foreclosures etc..).
Actually, I believe they were trying to drown out the protesters who seemed to be cropping up now and then.

USA I like, the chanting of "drill baby drill" we heard during Palin's speech was downright creepy. Talk about a room full of addicts looking for a fix.

-spence

Spence, once again you amaze me. Same old GOP rheotric? He basically, said "Bush Sucks", said the republicans lost their way and they need to turn this thing around. Even the post speech critics said it sounded like a speech someone would make if they were not the incumbent party in the white house. He really threw Bush and Co under the bus. McCain has been a consistent critic of Bush's stategy in Iraq and has spoken out against it for years.

Okay, let's work this out logically without a lot of emotion.



If you vote for Obama....





You get this.....

Actually, I believe they were trying to drown out the protesters who seemed to be cropping up now and then.

USA I like, the chanting of "drill baby drill" we heard during Palin's speech was downright creepy. Talk about a room full of addicts looking for a fix.

-spence

I understand that Spence, but were they shouting USA because the protesters had free speech :jump:

He did sound more aggressive towards changing his party than I expected Jim.

Fight with me," McCain implored. "Fight for what's right for our country. Fight for the ideals and character of a free people. Fight for our children's future. Fight for justice and opportunity for all...Stand up, stand up, stand up, and fight! Nothing is inevitable. We're Americans, and we never give up! We never quit! We never hide from history! We make history!"

Pretty much sums up what I believe and the values I give my children. I guess the Obama/Biden equivalent would be "Blame with me!, We never give up, because you never tried!" Its not your fault, I repeat, its not your fault!"

The last 60 seconds was the best of his oratory. He is not a gifted public speaker and could certainly use some coaching.

Fight with me," McCain implored. "Fight for what's right for our country. Fight for the ideals and character of a free people. Fight for our children's future. Fight for justice and opportunity for all...Stand up, stand up, stand up, and fight! Nothing is inevitable. We're Americans, and we never give up! We never quit! We never hide from history! We make history!"
That's pretty much what Bush has said all along...

...then done the opposite.

-spence

Bush is certianly not a quitter spence... stubborn mule is more like it.. or perhaps a fearless lemming.

Mule, Jackass......You say Toe May Toe, I say Toe Mah Toe

lets call the whole thing off...... and impeach. :hihi:

still cant let go of Bush. Man, you guys will miss him.
You should be using Clinton's theme song from Fleetwood Mac, dont stop thinking about tomorrow.
A year ago, almost no one, in either party would say McCain and Bush are similar, suddenly he is Bush's clone.

BTW - did anyone watch after the speech, during all the balloon dropping crap? They played "Barracuda" by Heart, I laughed my ass off, that was brilliant. I wonder if Palin got it?

Speech was average to below average. Nothing great, nothing we haven't heard before. I think he looked stupid talking about all his crossing the aisle heroics when everybody that spoke prior to him disembowled the dems. (and rather well I may add).

This race will be won in the debates.

lets call the whole thing off...... and impeach. :hihi:

No need for that, if Obama gets elected it's rumored that he and Biden will investigate the Bush administration and prosecute any wrong doing.

only 1/3 of America is GOP
the rest is Dem or indifferent.

Will be interesting to see what additional groups the old man can win over, if at all.

This race will be won in the debates.

I agree, with the caveat that a lot will depend on what's happening

in the world's troubled spots between now and Nov. 4th.

No need for that, if Obama gets elected it's rumored that he and Biden will investigate the Bush administration and prosecute any wrong doing.

One can only hope. :lasso::lasso:

BTW - did anyone watch after the speech, during all the balloon dropping crap? They played "Barracuda" by Heart, I laughed my ass off, that was brilliant. I wonder if Palin got it?


I doubt it.. She was too busy autographing the chests of NRA members over at the beer tent at that point.

No need for that, if Obama gets elected it's rumored that he and Biden will investigate the Bush administration and prosecute any wrong doing.

thats a great example of hope and change, how will that help the economy, energy, security?
How will that unite the country. SAME OLD POLITICAL CRAP OBAMA IS RUNNING AGAINST.

The Bush Administarion was faced with new things NO other governement had to deal with before. So, what do you do with terrorists, sworn to destroy you? there is no power to surrender or sign a treaty with? I admit they f'de up a lot, but criminal? Give me a break. Looks like Michael Moore will be the new Attorney General

My problem with McCain is kind of like my problem with Bush 8 years ago. Personally I think the guy is alright but I really worry about who he has around him. It seems in the last months more and more of the hard core right are showing up on McCain's team. If he is going to run as being different from Bush, McCain (and for that matter Obama as well needs to provide more detail) needs to come out with some macro details about how it is going to change.

only 1/3 of America is GOP
the rest is Dem or indifferent.

Will be interesting to see what additional groups the old man can win over, if at all.

40 mil watched Palins speach, more that clinton and bidens
38 watched Obama

Havent been able to get the figure on McCain.

How many groups he can win over? Not Important, how many show up to vote is what counts. Have of Obamas supporters will wake and bake, sleep until the 3pm class, play hacky sack and forget to vote. I keep hoping that the 01-20-09 morons think that this is election day.

The Bush Administarion was faced with new things NO other governement had to deal with before.
You can't be serious :huh:

-spence

A year ago, almost no one, in either party would say McCain and Bush are similar, suddenly he is Bush's clone.
I think you need to go back two years to make that statement. And if McCain is regarded as Bush's clone it's because he signed a deal with the devil to get the Administration's backing for the nomination, which he nearly screwed up.

I loved John Kerry's convention speech where he detailed all the Bills that Senator McCain supported by Candidate McCain would oppose!

-spence

You can't be serious :huh:

-spence

the united states civilans have been attacked, killing thousands by terrorists who infiltrated the fabric of our society in order to carry out a catastophic act?
Did I not pay attention in history class? Werent all out other enemies wearing uniforms or carrying flags?

What puzzles the hell out of me was his many endorsements, "If you want change vote for McCain". Even Laura Bush:laughs:excuse the laugh but she kinda through W under the bus there. McCain =change? Isn't that the Democratic platform, change?

Isn't that the Democratic platform, change?
They're attempting to muddy the waters by taking Obama's mantra away from him. Smart move if you ask me...

-spence

t

The Bush Administarion was faced with new things NO other governement had to deal with before.


You can't be serious :huh:

-spence

Its true spence. This nation has never had such a blundering idiot behind the desk... never. :cool:

They're attempting to muddy the waters by taking Obama's mantra away from him. Smart move if you ask me...

-spence

brillaint move, and ....its working.

nothing says change like, Joe Biden!

Looks like Michael Moore will be the new Attorney General

Ya and with Bon jovi sponsoring a $31,000 a plate dinner tonight for Obama,
he may be vying for a Cabinet spot. :D

$31,000 a plate, poket money for the low and middle income folks. :rolleyes:

the united states civilans have been attacked, killing thousands by terrorists who infiltrated the fabric of our society in order to carry out a catastophic act?
Did I not pay attention in history class? Werent all out other enemies wearing uniforms or carrying flags?
Terrorisim has been around for a loooong time.

I seem to remember a dirty sneak attack that infiltrated the fabric of our society back in 1941 that killed nearly as many as 9/11. Granted most wore uniforms but I don't think to the dead that really means anything. Still scarred the heck out of our National psyche.

Heck, we killed over 200,000 civilians in Japan using a weapon that had never been used before. That's quite a catostrophic act that no government had ever had to deal with before.

We were on the brink of nuclear war during the Kennedy Administration. That had to be a little stressful for the Whitehouse considering it threatened to destroy the entire planet in an instant.

I think FDR was facing something like the Great Depression and total German domination of the world. That couldn't have been easy considering he was a Democrat :hee:

Hey, 9/11 was a big deal but ultimately it was 19 guys with box cutters who got lucky.

You know, the best way to deal with terrorism? Don't let yourself be terrorized. It drives them nuts.

-spence

John McCain and Barack Obama are now in a dead heat in the race for the White House, with each candidate garnering 42 percent of the vote, according to the latest CBS News poll.

That’s a significant change from a CBS poll last weekend, which showed the Obama-Biden ticket ahead of McCain-Palin by a margin of 48 percent to 40 percent.

Let them have a cage match

Its true spence. This nation has never had such a blundering idiot behind the desk... never. :cool:

I think Carter was by far the worst President in my life time. Nice guy and everything but made all the wrong moves. I think Bush has made some huge blunders but to blame him for everything like the left does is pathetic. What happened to Nancy Pelousy and her band that got voted in to change the direction of the war and the country, Nothing happened, things just got worse. They spend every media event taking cheap shots at Bush and pointing fingers while they go on vacation and do nothing, nada, zero to help anything.

I think Carter was by far the worst President in my life time. Nice guy and everything but made all the wrong moves. I think Bush has made some huge blunders but to blame him for everything like the left does is pathetic. What happened to Nancy Pelousy and her band that got voted in to change the direction of the war and the country, Nothing happened, things just got worse. They spend every media event taking cheap shots at Bush and pointing fingers while they go on vacation and do nothing, nada, zero to help anything.

hes got a point, nothing in two years. Unless of course you count the success of the surge in Iraq , we know how you feel about that:smash:

hes got a point, nothing in two years. Unless of course you count the success of the surge in Iraq , we know how you feel about that:smash:
I think you can give Bush some credit for finally finding his VETO pen in this regard. It's not like they have enough of a majority to push everything through.

But that being said there's been quite a lot of legislation signed into law under this Congress. Your assertion that there's been nothing in two years is simply not true.

And the Surge is working argument appears to be a combination of factors, a big one being that a lot of Iraqis have stopped fighting us for the moment. Let's hope it holds, but I noticed a new report saying that troops aren't going home anytime soon.

-spence

I agree with you Buckman..on all points. One thing about Carter though... I beleive he was Honest about everything he did and did not try to fool anyone by saying one thing and doing another(Saying Saddam was planning some horrible act agianst the US for example. Or saying he was not a nation builder and topple 2 governments.). Am I wrong about that?? I was a kid when he was in office.

A friend of mine posted this on another site.. I thought I would post it.. :D

I don't understand how people cannot see the Republicans for the transparent liars that they are. McCain states that he is a maverick and will cross the aisle to get things done, but when it came down to the selection of his VP he caved to the pressure exerted on him by the evangelical right (in my opinion the most dangerous force in American politics). They, in fact, now hold his leash and that needs to be remembered when comparing the two candidates. Obama will make decisions based on what he thinks is the best for the country, agree or disagree with him. McCain will be forced to consider what the evangelical right wants in every decision he makes or face the party consequences. Make no mistake... evangelicals want nothing less than a theocracy and they think Palin is their ticket. They are already talking about 2012. McCain is very likely to be a one-term president if he wins.

Hillary vs Palin in 2012.

I agree with you Buckman..on all points. One thing about Carter though... I beleive he was Honest about everything he did and did not try to fool anyone by saying one thing and doing another(Saying Saddam was planning some horrible act agianst the US for example. Or saying he was not a nation builder and topple 2 governments.). Am I wrong about that?? I was a kid when he was in office.

A very good point, Carter wasn't an effective leader but Bush has shown to be neither effective nor honest.

This Administration has done so much to sieze power from the American people and then pull a curtian around their activities. I'm a believer that a government for the people must fairly transparent to even have a chance at being effective.

-spence

Call me a fool, but I believe McCain and Palin will in fact try to do everything they can to change the way things are done. The way you and I want them done. However with the Dems in charge( and they will be out for blood if Obama looses) I think they will have a tough time accomplishing anything. I do feel they will be outspoken critics of busness as usual. If Obama gets in with party in charge and he is able to appoint any justice they want, unchallanged, we will be screwed. And that damage could last a generation or more and do more harm to this country then you can imagine. And that alone will prevent me from ever putting one party in charge of everything.

Your no fool Buckman. This country is so divided right now, no matter who wins, there is going to be a lot of pissed off people.

If Obama gets in with party in charge and he is able to appoint any justice they want, unchallanged, we will be screwed. And that damage could last a generation or more and do more harm to this country then you can imagine. And that alone will prevent me from ever putting one party in charge of everything.
Bush did everything he could to stack the courts to the Right, so I'd have no issue with some moderation on the bench. The courts above all should be as neutral as possible, and yes I understand that how I worded that is a loaded statement.

And I agree on your second point, even arguing to some friends that a vote for McCain might be prudent simply to keep balance with the most likely very Democratic US Congress. This assumes of course that we actually get the "old" McCain who's apt to bridge party lines in favor of pragmatism, vs the "new" McCain who would owe a might debt to the far Right for getting him elected.

-spence

Do you guys kbnow how many Justices will be apointed by the next President. I think it's 3 but I may be wrong. If it is three and Obama picks them then we are heading down a path of socialism. I trust McCain to pick more moderate justices and the Dems will not pass anyone who is too radical right.

Nebe. We're agreeing on way to much lately, knock it off

Do you guys kbnow how many Justices will be apointed by the next President. I think it's 3 but I may be wrong. If it is three and Obama picks them then we are heading down a path of socialism. I trust McCain to pick more moderate justices and the Dems will not pass anyone who is too radical right.
No, and that is probably a good thing. I liked Roberts as he looked like the real deal, but Alito was a bit of a sham.

Remember there are three branches of government for a reason, and it would take many, many consistent Adminstrations to really lead us very far down that path. Even Obama with a Dem Congress wouldn't lead to socialism. It may lead to some liberal legislation but this is a pretty tough country and some of it may actually be a good thing.

Nebe. We're agreeing on way to much lately, knock it off
It's like you have your hand on his thigh.

-spence

Do you guys kbnow how many Justices will be apointed by the next President. I think it's 3 but I may be wrong. If it is three and Obama picks them then we are heading down a path of socialism. I trust McCain to pick more moderate justices and the Dems will not pass anyone who is too radical right.

Nebe. We're agreeing on way to much lately, knock it off

well.. socialism is one thing, but it has seemed to me that after 9/11 this country has gone down the path to fascism.

In regards to agreeing with you, I tend to sound extremely liberal on here, but in reality I am not...i am just a person who pays very close attention to what is going on.... Also, I have a great distaste for Bush incase you havent noticed.. :hihi:

Let them have a cage match

That was the plan but they've had no luck finding a cage that can hold Sarah. :laugha:

That was the plan but they've had no luck finding a cage that can hold Sarah. :laugha:

:biglaugh: