* If you're a minority and you're selected for a job over more qualified candidates you're a "token hire."
* If you're a conservative and you're selected for a job over more qualified candidates you're a "game changer."

* Black teen pregnancies? A "crisis" in black America .
* White teen pregnancies? A "blessed event."

* If you grow up in Hawaii you're "exotic."
* Grow up in Alaska eating mooseburgers, you're the quintessential "American story."

* Similarly, if you name you kid Barack you're "unpatriotic."
* Name your kid Track, you're "colorful."

* If you're a Democrat and you make a VP pick without fully vetting the individual you're "reckless."
* A Republican who doesn't fully vet is a "maverick."

* If you spend 3 years as a community organizer growing your organization from a staff of 1 to 13 and your budget from $70,000 to $400,000, then become the first black President of the Harvard Law Review, create a voter registration drive that registers 150,000 new African Amerian voters, spend 12 years as a Constitutional Law
professor, then spend nearly 8 more years as a State Senator representing a district with over 750,000 people, becoming chairman of the state Senate's Health and Human Services committee, then spend nearly 4 years in the United States Senate representing a state of nearly 13 million people, sponsoring 131 bills and serving on the Foreign Affairs, Environment and Public Works and Veteran's Affairs committees, you are woefully inexperienced.

* If you spend 4 years on the city council and 6 years as the mayor of a town with less than 7,000 people, then spend 20 months as the governor of a state with 650,000 people, then you've got the most executive experience of anyone on either ticket, are the Commander in Chief of the Alaska military and are well qualified to lead the nation should you be called upon to do so because your state is the closest state to Russia.

* If you are a Democratic male candidate who is popular with millions of people you are an "arrogant celebrity."
* If you are a popular Republican female candidate you are "energizing the base."

* If you are a younger male candidate who thinks for himself and makes his own decisions you are "presumptuous."
* If you are an older male candidate who makes last minute decisions you refuse to explain, you are a "shoot from the hip" maverick.

* If you are a candidate with a Harvard law degree you are "an elitist-out of touch" with the real America .
* if you are a legacy (dad and granddad were admirals) graduate of Annapolis , with multiple disciplinary infractions you are a hero.

* If you manage a multi-million dollar nationwide campaign, you are an "empty suit."
* If you are a part time mayor of a town of 7000 people, you are an "experienced executive."

* If you go to a south side Chicago church, your beliefs are "extremist."
* If you believe in creationism and don't believe global warming is man made, you are "strongly principled."

* If you cheated on your first wife with a rich heiress, and left your disfigured wife and married the heiress the next month, you're a Christian.
* If you have been married to the same woman with whom you've been wed to for 19 years and raising 2 beautiful daughters with, you're "risky."

* If you're a black single mother of 4 who waits for 22 hours after her water breaks to seek medical attention, you're an irresponsible parent, endangering the life of your unborn child.
* But if you're a white married mother who waits 22 hours, you're spunky.

* If you're a 13-year-old Chelsea Clinton, the right-wing press calls you "First dog."
* If you're a 17-year old pregnant unwed daughter of a Republican, the right-wing press calls you "beautiful" and "courageous."

* If you kill an endangered species, you're an excellent hunter.
* If you have an abortion, you're a murderer (forget about if it happened while being raped.)

* If you teach abstinence only in sex education, you get teen parents.
* If you teach responsible age appropriate sex education, including the proper use of birth control, you are eroding the fiber of society.

* If you're a Republican senator who solicits gay sex in an airport bathroom, you get to return to your job in the Senate and are encouraged to run for re-election.
* If you're a Democratic Senator who is out of public office and have an affair, your political career is over and your wife who has terminal cancer is to blame.

Wait....

Are you trying to say there are double standards in politics?


Interesting read. Thanks for posting it.

posted by Likwid last week. And as you may read this as clever, I read this as the total bs spewed by liberals to rationalize the world they live in. Nice try, it aint true and only appeals to the hapless victims that make up the majority of the party. Lets all chuckle at this, have a latte and the talk about how I'm going to write another book when my NEA grant comes through.

posted by Likwid last week. And as you may read this as clever, I read this as the total bs spewed by liberals to rationalize the world they live in. Nice try, it aint true and only appeals to the hapless victims that make up the majority of the party. Lets all chuckle at this, have a latte and the talk about how I'm going to write another book when my NEA grant comes through.

Why such venom?

The real irony is that this is EXACTLY the logic used by the GOP to construct their attack rhetoric, with a strong dose of LIE thrown in for spirit.

If you can't find humor in this, I worry for you.

-spence

I worry as well. Not just for Jim but for all the nation's sheeple.

* If you're a minority and you're "selected" for a job over more qualified candidates simply because of the color of your skin, that's wrong."
* If you're a conservative and you're selected for a VP job over more qualified candidates it was McCain's decision so shut up."

* 70% out of wedlock births in the black community? A "crisis" in black America .
* White teen pregnancies? same....Palin family story, at least they don't look at a baby as a PUNISHMENT...ever!

* If you grow up in Hawaii you're "exotic." is EXOTIC BAD? I ALWAYS THOUGHT EXOTIC WAS COOL?
* Grow up in Alaska eating mooseburgers, you're the quintessential "American story." UMMM, MOOSEBURGERS!

* Similarly, if you name you kid Barack you're "unpatriotic." I thought it was the "Hussein" that was the problem...
* Name your kid Track, you're "colorful
* Name your kid SPENCE and @#!%$#@

* If you're a Democrat and you make a VP pick without fully vetting the individual you're "reckless."
* The Republican who picked Palin is brilliant and a "SUPER Maverick."

* If you spend 8 working side by side with a notorious domestic terrorist who said on 9/11 that he wished he done more and you spend 49 million dollars on radical left wing causes under the guise of improving education and your home district is still the cesspool that it has always been and clearly has not benefited from the CHANGE that you claim to be able to provide with the wave of a wand, then become the first black President of the Harvard Law Review via affirmative action and the only article ever submitted to the review by you is an unsigned abortion article, create a voter registration drive working for ACORN, one of the most that corrupt left wing organizations in the country specializing in voter fraud...registers 150,000 new African Amerian voters alive, dead or non-existent, spend 12 years as a Constitutional Law
professor, then spend nearly 8 more years as a State Senator representing a district with over 750,000 people forcing them into slum housing and enriching Tony Retzko, becoming chairman of the state Senate's Health and Human Services committee, then spend nearly 4 years in the United States Senate representing a state of nearly 13 million people and campaigning for president before ever trying the whole SENATOR thing from day 1 chairing an senate sub committee and never, ever holding a meeting, sponsoring 131 bills and serving on the Foreign Affairs, Environment and Public Works and Veteran's Affairs committees, you are woefully inexperienced but good enough for the dems.

* If you spend 4 years on the city council and 6 years as the mayor of a town with less than 7,000 people, then spend 20 months as the governor of a state with 650,000 people, then you've got the most executive experience of anyone on either ticket, are the Commander in Chief of the Alaska military and are well qualified to lead the nation should you be called upon to do so because your state is the closest state to Russia. Sometimes you just have "IT".
* If you are a Democratic male candidate who is popular with millions of people you are an "extremely arrogant and condescending faux-celebrity who also has the capacity to be a whiny little bitch apparently."
* If you are a popular Republican female candidate you are "energizing the base." OH YEAH BABY!

* If you are a younger male candidate who thinks for himself and makes his own decisions only after days of advice from 300+ foreign policy advisors you are ...hahahahahahahha.
* If you are an older male candidate who makes last minute decisions you refuse to explain, you are a "shoot from the hip" maverick and a good shot.

* If you are a candidate with a Harvard law degree you are "an elitist-out of touch" with the real America . YOU SAID IT, NOT ME
* if you are a legacy (dad and granddad were admirals) graduate of Annapolis , with multiple disciplinary infractions you are a HERO.

* If you manage a multi-million dollar nationwide campaign, you are an "empty suit." I think he just reads the teleprompter, Axelrod runs the show...
* If you are a part time mayor of a town of 7000 people, you are an "experienced executive." AND VERY HOT!

* If you go to a south side Chicago church that spews radical America hating rhetoric on a weekly basis, supports Hamas and subscribes to Black Liberation Theology "Marxism", your beliefs are "extremist." NO KiDDIN'
* If you believe in creationism and don't believe global warming is man made, you are "strongly principled." Yeah,. because noone believes in Creation and damn it's hot lately...according to the instruments, the planet hasn't warmed since 1998 (coffee break) and we may be in a cycle of cooling, that's gonna piss AL Gore off..

* If you cheated on your first wife with a rich heiress, and left your disfigured wife and married the heiress the next month, you're a Christian. Who are you talking about Ted Kennedy?
* If you have been married to the same woman with whom you've been wed to for 19 years and raising 3 beautiful daughters with, you're "ME." hey, how about that?

* If you're a "black single mother of 4" who waits for 22 hours after her water breaks to seek medical attention, you're an irresponsible parent, endangering the life of your unborn child. And a dumbass for having a 5th kid when you can't support your first 4!!!
* But if you're a white married mother who waits 22 hours, you're spunky. AND VERY, VERY HOT, EVEN WHEN PREGNANT!

* If you're a 13-year-old Chelsea Clinton, the right-wing press calls you "First dog." because you are butt ugly
* If you're a 17-year old pregnant unwed daughter of a Republican, the right-wing press calls you "beautiful" and "courageous." and not so bright I guess...

* If you kill an endangered species, you're an excellent hunter.
* If you have an abortion, you're a murderer (forget about if it happened while being raped.)
*If you can't differentiate betwen an animal and a child, you're an A-HOLE.

* If you teach abstinence only in sex education, you get teen parents. not if they abstain, works everytime...
* If you teach responsible age appropriate sex education, including the proper use of birth control, you are eroding the fiber of society. it's the kindergarten thing that bugs me...

* If you're a Republican senator who solicits gay sex in an airport bathroom, you get to return to your job in the Senate and are encouraged to run for re-election. and if he switched to the democratic party he'd be elected over and over and when he died they'd name a grammar school after him
* If you're a Democratic Senator who is out of public office and have an affair, your political career is over and your wife who has terminal cancer is to blame. I don't get this one, he's out of office so how'd he lose his career???

How about this for the last one. If your a U.S. congressman in the Ma. and you have gay sex with a underage male intern, they name an elementry school after you. And don't forget Barney

Obama's a zero.
So if your kid gets into Harvard Law and becomes a senator, he's a zero too.

Underage..I thought Interns are from College, hence 18 or over.

Boy and they say the Liberals make up Chit :hihi:

the venom is this condescending crap that has become the hallmark of liberals. Lets see how clever we can be! I disagree Spence that any one entity has generated the logic used to create this. Its clever, but untrue.
Its called rationalization - morphing the truth to accomodate for your circumstances. Its what the entire Obama campaign is based on.

Quote: Yeah,. damn it's hot lately...according to the instruments, the planet hasn't warmed since 1998 (coffee break) and we may be in a cycle of cooling, that's gonna piss AL Gore off..Quote


If you are going to post cute edits to stuff, double-check some of it.
10 of the hottest years on records are in the last 15 years.

That Arctic sea ice must just need a coffee break, thats why it keeps disappearing....

damn this planet, get on board already.

Sorry;
Spence, Jim.
Carry on :D

Joe..
Pfft. Harvard.
Real leaders graduate Yale with a 2.35 GPA

the venom is this condescending crap that has become the hallmark of liberals. Lets see how clever we can be! I disagree Spence that any one entity has generated the logic used to create this. Its clever, but untrue.
Its called rationalization - morphing the truth to accomodate for your circumstances. Its what the entire Obama campaign is based on.
I've never said the Right invented nor has a monopoly on being mean spirited. Rather that they are a heck of a lot better at it.

How you see evil on the left and puppies and flowers on the Right astounds me though.

You don't think Rudy or Palin mocking (like snide third grade girls on the playground) Obama's community service isn't condascending?

Wake up man.

When we going fishing? :wave:

-spence

We'll go, got to get a handle on whats brewing this fall. I havent had a bass since mid-July. Lets look towards the next few weekends.

TO respond to your post, I truly cannot understand my hatred for the left. I do not disagree with them on all issues. I think they have created an environement where they tell everyone how bad things are just to create a need to themselves.

BTW -
I think Palin on Gibson was pretty lame, cant beleive you guys havent jumped all over that yet. My wife and I had a few beers and watched Obama and McCain on the Service forum. I tried to watch with an open mind, but we were both in awe of how Obama never answers a single question, he goes off on these rambles which arent even connected to the question. It was almost embarrasing to watch.McCain had straight answers to every question.

I think they have created an environement where they tell everyone how bad things are just to create a need to themselves.


I'm pretty sure BOTH sides do this.....If I'm not mistaken we are in Iraq under the same type of pretenses.

McCain has straight answers until that reporter in Maine asked him today 3 times about Sarry Palins foreign policy experience. He tried to talk about energy and laying pipe instead...

[QUOTE=RIJIMMY;619889]we were both in awe of how Obama never answers a single question, he goes off on these rambles which arent even connected to the question. It was almost embarrasing to watchQUOTE]

Funny, I thought the same thing when Palin was asked "Yes or No" if the US Military operating in Pakistan...

I think Palin on Gibson was pretty lame, cant beleive you guys havent jumped all over that yet. [/QUOTE]

I agree, he was quizzing and she was semi-answering...
Done with her for a while.
Waiting for a debate or for her to say something (other than name drop who she called in Georgia last week)) to talk about her again.

Done with you too.. :smash: :D
You asked me Bidens positions.
I took time out of MY busy day to answer and you never responded :buds:

GIBSON: You said recently, in your old church, "Our national leaders are sending U.S. soldiers on a task that is from God." Are we fighting a holy war?

PALIN: You know, I don't know if that was my exact quote.

GIBSON: Exact words.

PALIN: But the reference there is a repeat of Abraham Lincoln's words when he said -- first, he suggested never presume to know what God's will is, and I would never presume to know God's will or to speak God's words.

Maybe she should reference the fact that old Abe was an atheist.

"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."

...All in all, it was not a bad interview though. I guess this makes me sexist.

that quote about christian dogma by the way is to be attributed to Lincoln.

TO respond to your post, I truly cannot understand my hatred for the left. I do not disagree with them on all issues. I think they have created an environement where they tell everyone how bad things are just to create a need to themselves.



I can help you understand. You have allowed yourself to buy into the hype and propaganda. :gu:

[QUOTE=RIJIMMY;619889]we were both in awe of how Obama never answers a single question, he goes off on these rambles which arent even connected to the question. It was almost embarrasing to watchQUOTE]

Funny, I thought the same thing when Palin was asked "Yes or No" if the US Military operating in Pakistan...

except that obamas answers were 5 minutes long and hers was one sentence.

I would bet money that Palin was told to answer simple yes or no answers after she was givin a long list of possible questions with the answers yes and no attached to them..

No matter what happens, I hope and and am pretty sure that McCain and Palin will be better than Bush and Cheeny

TO respond to your post, I truly cannot understand my hatred for the left. I do not disagree with them on all issues. I think they have created an environement where they tell everyone how bad things are just to create a need to themselves.
At least you can admit you don't have all your marbles, this is a good first step.

But the Republicans do just the same using scare tactics so people don't think about the details. They completely pimped the WOT in 2002 and 2004 to win seats in Congress by making you think you were about to die.

Remember #^&#^&#^&#^& Cheney stating directly that a vote for Kerry could induce another terrorist attack?

I think Palin on Gibson was pretty lame, cant beleive you guys havent jumped all over that yet. My wife and I had a few beers and watched Obama and McCain on the Service forum. I tried to watch with an open mind, but we were both in awe of how Obama never answers a single question, he goes off on these rambles which arent even connected to the question. It was almost embarrasing to watch.McCain had straight answers to every question.

I watched some clips and I'm quite surprised she didn't have a clue on the Bush Doctrine question. I know her foreign policy is weak but the fight against Islamic terror is the defining issue of our generation according to her campaign.

She also looked very green with her remarks on Georgia and NATO. Just because you were given a talking point doesn't mean you have the credibility to be flippantly talking about World War III :cens:

-spence

[QUOTE=EarnedStripes44;619899]

except that obamas answers were 5 minutes long and hers was one sentence.

Well actually, Jim. I thought there were some questions that she entertained that she should not have answered. There were some hypothetical propositions in that interview she just should not have committed to, simply because they are hypothetical. Any veteran politician knows that. It was like she crammed for an essay exam; her responses were ambiguous, repetitive and she seemed nervous at times. On the other hand, if there is anything that I walked away, after watching that interview, it clear that Gibson is far more knowledgeable of foreign policy than McCains VP. On the other hand Palin (:humpty:) needs to buy a handbook on critical argumentation.

Underage..I thought Interns are from College, hence 18 or over.

Boy and they say the Liberals make up Chit :hihi:

I at the time the kid was 17. I'm not OK with it if the kid was 18 either. I think you fail to except the irony of what I said.
Liberal fact check.. click here

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1712889/posts

I guess we just except different levels of behavior

Never "Excepted" anything.....but Underage usually means illegal.

Was it Illegal or Immoral? That's the difference 1 word makes.

and for the record.....I don't condone it either....see We can agree on things.

Studds? Are you kidding me???

Talk about living in the past.

-spence

I was only stating something that I thought would be funny and ironic. It appears I touched on a nerve, Sorry

I was only stating something that I thought would be funny and ironic. It appears I touched on a nerve, Sorry
Not really funny or ironic. Desperate? Yes.

-spence

what is actually funny, ironic and desperate is the amount of time that is being spent on the anal exam of a woman who the left proclaimed completely inept, unqualified and unfit to be VP, clearly the worst VP pick in political history, right? If this is true shouldn't this guarantee an Obama victory and wouldn't you just sit back and watch the McCain campaign implode? This is not just a campaign against Palin but an attempt to destroy any political viability that she may have. Sooo, why the big hullabalooo. The Celebutards and Hag Skank Face Lift Queens on the View and in the media are completely off their rockers and the new chorus from the left compares O to Jesus and Palin to PP...gimme a break...Obama is on his heels having to defend his record against the record of the opponents VP...criticizing McCain for being internet illiterate is a great idea till you realize that he can't type because of the beating that he took...Bided sticks both feet in his mouth everytime he opens it....this is really becoming a lot of fun...Hillary presumed...picking out drapes and referring to Bills admin, as the "1ST CLINTON ADMIN." Obama has really presumed and now he's acting like a little girl that had her lollipop taken away. The more they go after Palin, the more they solidify the right base and make her an endearing figure to women in the middle that think Hill was a victim of the same crap. If you believe the mainstream media then this race shouldn't even be close. OBAMA IS THE ONE WE'VE BEEN WAITING FOR...isn't he??.but for some reason???..Obama is in trouble, he's never won a competitive race against a Republican, he's tried to keep his base a fever pitch for nearly 20 months and it's fizzling(most of it was hype anyway), his Prius is running out of gas....:crying:

this election is simple ...vote for the War Hero and his lovely, bright and talented VP or vote for the Communist and his diahrreah mouth sideick...at least that's how I see it:hee:

[QUOTE=RIROCKHOUND;619831]Quote: Yeah,. damn it's hot lately...according to the instruments, the planet hasn't warmed since 1998 (coffee break) and we may be in a cycle of cooling, that's gonna piss AL Gore off..Quote


If you are going to post cute edits to stuff, double-check some of it.
10 of the hottest years on records are in the last 15 years.

That Arctic sea ice must just need a coffee break, thats why it keeps disappearing....

damn this planet, get on board already.

I said the planet hasn't warmed since 1998, that's the baseline that the left uses to point to the begining of the end, there is some controversy over the "Hockeystick" but that might be too confusing for you...we have been cooler since 1998 despite an overall increase in CO2 since then, there are more than a few scientists that are now predicting an overall cooling of the planet, have you been outside??? Sunspot activity, or lack there of being one of the culprits for both the current cooling and the spike in 1998 but overall we're heading in the opposite direction from the alarmists claims which is why "climate change" is now replacing "global warming", that way they can get ya coming or going...are you sure your GPA was that high? :p

Not really funny or ironic. Desperate? Yes.

-spence

Your right it's a sad statement on the attitude of the left in this state.:agree: Thanks for bringing me to my senses.

Why would I be desperate? My guy's in the lead:grins:

Underage..I thought Interns are from College, hence 18 or over.

Boy and they say the Liberals make up Chit :hihi:


Some of the interns in Congress are underage, from various high schools all over the country. Boy some of them liberals sure make up chit.

McCain has straight answers until that reporter in Maine asked him today 3 times about Sarry Palins foreign policy experience. He tried to talk about energy and laying pipe instead...


Palin living closer to Russia qualifies as foreign policy experience:laughs:

Why would I be desperate? My guy's in the lead:grins:
Actually Obama is still ahead in the electoral college by most measures, and that's about all that matters. Obama has a lot of cash as well and could use this to his advantage to rebut GOP lies.

McCain will probably loose a few points as the Palin bubble starts to deflate, but it's way to close a race to say your guy is in the lead.

-spence

Your right it's a sad statement on the attitude of the left in this state.:agree: Thanks for bringing me to my senses.

Why would I be desperate? My guy's in the lead:grins:

correction. Your guy's VP is in the lead:rotf2:

McCain has straight answers until that reporter in Maine asked him today 3 times about Sarry Palins foreign policy experience. He tried to talk about energy and laying pipe instead...

Thanks ES44, I just couldn't help myself...

Global warming, the value of diplomacy, the age of the earth, carbon dating, evolution, the big bang, the value of sex education...all :bs:

To get on point here, let's start with History.

Unfortunately, many Americans are woefully ignorant of history - not only their own but that of the world around them - and they are therefore doomed to repeat it, just as we are now beginning to do.

Regardless of who is elected, neither outcome can fill you with a great deal of optimism about the future. Simply put, I believe that if McCain is elected we'll end up in a military conflict that will be staggering in terms of loss and it is not going to be in the Middle East.

And sadly, if Obama is elected, I'm afraid we'll suffer a loss to our country of an entirely different kind that will be just as difficult for us as a nation to recover from.

Electing the McCain/Palin ticket will just be a continuation of the Bush doctrine.

To give the devil his due, I do have to admit that Bush and Cheney - or more accurately, Cheney and Bush - have made great use of that terrible attack on our own soil during the first term of their administration.

They initially used our justifiable outrage and anger over the attack to pursue a military objective - bringing OBL to justice - and then used the fear of a repeat attack, using Al Queda as the boogieman under the bed, to keep the country hypnotized and hysterical.

And while they played us like the suckers in an enormous game of 3 Card Monty, they shoveled obscene amounts of money to their friends at KBR and Halliburton - and assorted other shell companies based offshore - outsourcing troop support. These contractors were protected by a well-armed private army of mercenaries (Blackwater) who are not answerable to anyone but the Executive Office and are fully funded by our tax dollars. This is the redistribution of both wealth and power, indeed.

They also used the fear of a repeat of a 9-11 style event to justify the passage of bills like the Patriot Act that are violations of our Constitutional rights as Americans. They later used that same unreasonable fear to make unsubstantiated claims about WMD's and Al Queda's supposed links to Iraq to depose and execute a former U.S. ally after abandoning the real mission in Afganistan.

That so many Americans are so easily led is nothing less than frightening to me.

Economically speaking, the GOP's main objective has always been a reverse Robin Hood. Steal from the poor and give to the rich to redistribute the wealth in this country thus widening the gap between the wealthy and the working poor.

It is a throwback to Reagan's success in breaking the back of the air traffic controllers that has led us to where we stand today, "we" being those of us who are ass over teakettle busy working trying to make ends meet, raise children, put food on the table and keep our homes while many slide further into debt. BUsh's economic plan is really the fulfillment of the Reagan theory of trickle down economics - which essentially means if you feed a horse enough oats, sooner or later enough may come out the back end to feed the sparrows. Picking through detritus to survive is not an easy or pleasant chore.

Finally, it should come as a surprise to absolutely no one - IF you know your history - that the Republicans now abrogating our rights and determining how we are able to live our lives are quite literally the great- and great-great grandchildren of the robber barons of a century ago who amassed the previously unheard of wealth they are now building upon. And the working middle class again has the same burden to bear that their great grandparents fought so hard to overcome. He who ignores history is doomed to repeat it.

In terms of national security, we are at a watershed moment for our country with this election and perhaps we are witnessing the last days of the empire. I would hope it's not so but the policy of military colonization that spread England's military resources too thin toppled their empire just as it had for the Romans centuries earlier. Pick an empire, any of them if you know your history, and you'll see a pattern.

Our military resources are stretched paper thin right now and the mud has yet to hit the fan. The real threat to global security is rapidly regaining strength and we can't do a damned thing about it.

Russia has invaded Georgia, a sovereign state on their border and by Russia's own admission, has designs on Poland. Okay, class, what happened in Poland not all that many years ago? And what did it lead to?

Bush has voiced his objection to the invasion of Georgia and can't do a damned thing about it other than try to place weapons in Poland that are just going to enrage the bear. Stay tuned, the best is yet to come if your know your history and understand current geo-politics. That is the genuine threat today in the world. And that is the next global security issue our next President will face.

So, who do you want to deal with it?

You know what McCain's response will be. If he becomes ill or dies, do you want to leave that decision to someone like Palin?

That's your decision in November.

Crafty, I can't even begin to respond but appreciate the well thought out posting. Its intersting that the "real" genuine threat in the world is Russia. Just curious, when has Russia attacked the US, when have Russian soliders fought US soliders? Try.....never. Thats our biggest threat? Are you afraid communism is coming back? Yet, you dismiss the events of 9/11 as pur republican fear mongering? As you state, not learning from history is a major problem. I'm afraid the history books you're learning from were copyrighted in 1985.

Jim When has Iraq attacked us? dah.....


Nice post crafty.. :D

Crafty, I can't even begin to respond but appreciate the well thought out posting. Its intersting that the "real" genuine threat in the world is Russia. Just curious, when has Russia attacked the US, when have Russian soliders fought US soliders? Try.....never. Thats our biggest threat? Are you afraid communism is coming back? Yet, you dismiss the events of 9/11 as pur republican fear mongering? As you state, not learning from history is a major problem. I'm afraid the history books you're learning from were copyrighted in 1985.
I find it more than ironic that Conservatives are the first to cheerlead the Bush Doctrine as necessary in the post 9/11 world, when it's built on a radically liberal idiology.

The real threat to the American people, today, is the growing position of non-democratic states who are s#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g the wealth of this country dry, and Russia is certianly among them.

Sometime in this century the %$%$%$%$ is going to hit the fan and we will simply lack the money and influence to do much about it.

-spence

I
The real threat to the American people, today, is the growing position of non-democratic states who are s#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&g the wealth of this country dry, and Russia is certianly among them.

-spence

Do you mean Kansas, Kent, Tenn, SC, Wy, ND, SD, etc.?

Do you mean Kansas, Kent, Tenn, SC, Wy, ND, SD, etc.?

Nation states :whackin:

-spence

OK, otherwise I was going to have to go back and throw Alaska in there.

[QUOTE=RIROCKHOUND;619831]
I said the planet hasn't warmed since 1998, that's the baseline that the left uses to point to the begining of the end, there is some controversy over the "Hockeystick" but that might be too confusing for you...we have been cooler since 1998 despite an overall increase in CO2 since then, there are more than a few scientists that are now predicting an overall cooling of the planet, have you been outside??? Sunspot activity, or lack there of being one of the culprits for both the current cooling and the spike in 1998 but overall we're heading in the opposite direction from the alarmists claims which is why "climate change" is now replacing "global warming", that way they can get ya coming or going...are you sure your GPA was that high? :p
This really should be another thread, buthere we go..

More than a few scientists is not the consensus.
Show me the science. I don't have the time or desire to dig through boks and references in scientific journals and post it. You would just accuse the authors of being communists anyways :fishslap:

Sunspot was in vouge to argue against climate change a few years ago. Pretty well proven it does not account for the changes measured in recent (century scale) changes. Prior to anthropogenic CO2 forcing solar may have had a measurable impact, but that is overwhelmed by the present CO2 effects.

Climate change has always been the term I've preferred BECAUSE global warming is too simple, the earth does not 'have a fever' but it will cause significant changes in temperature, precipitation and other climatatic events. It is larger and much more complex than that.

The 'Hockey-stick' was refuted (by a mathematician who worked for an oil consulting firm) and then further supported by the original Author (Mann) and other studies.

Go to URI 23 Sept. Mike Mann will be talking all about climate change.
Ask him about the hockey-stick then.

http://climateprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/nasa-2007.jpg

Where is the trend of global cooling??

Show me the science Scott.

getting back to Crafty's post, I wish there was an independent organization to analysis on all the "conclusions" noted by Crafty and other voices of the Democratic party. Is anyone familiar with Six Sigma techniques? Its data bases analysis and can be used to determine cause and effect. Its used in analzing business and engineering processes. I would love to see it applied to all the "symptoms" of Bush's policies to really determine what the true source of the problem is. There are no independent voices when it comes to the current economic situation. I think an un-biased, data driven cause and effect analysis would shed a lot of light on our situtaiton. As Crafty and many others feel strongly about their opinions, I wonder how much is based on fact and not perception. personally, I doubt the impact of Bush's policies on our current situation. for example, Obama is blaming the Lehman and Merrill issue on Bush. I doubt anything Bush said or did had any influence whatsoever on any decisiosn made by the management of those two companies. We need independent analysis.

The Bush administration housing policy promoted "homeownership" over affordable rental housing. While on it's face it appears to be a noble aim "the american dream" of everyone owning a home, the fact is that most major housing organizations felt that this was impractical. Many people are not ready or able to afford the responsibilities of homeownership. Low downpmt. requirements, reduced underwriting standards, failure to monitor lending practices, pushing Fannie & Freddie to purchase all these "questionable" loans. These were all driven by the administrations housing policies. While nobody was making some of these "fools" refinance their houses multiple times, policy makers and regulators should have realized that the "housing bubble" would self correct eventually and cause this mortgage mess that is in fact the major factor in the failure of the investment banks. Lots of blame to pass around...uninformed borrowers, predatory lenders, $ blind investors and the administration that let it happen without 1 effort to reign in the problem before it was too late.l

The Bush administration housing policy promoted "homeownership" over affordable rental housing. While on it's face it appears to be a noble aim "the american dream" of everyone owning a home, the fact is that most major housing organizations felt that this was impractical. Many people are not ready or able to afford the responsibilities of homeownership. Low downpmt. requirements, reduced underwriting standards, failure to monitor lending practices, pushing Fannie & Freddie to purchase all these "questionable" loans. These were all driven by the administrations housing policies. While nobody was making some of these "fools" refinance their houses multiple times, policy makers and regulators should have realized that the "housing bubble" would self correct eventually and cause this mortgage mess that is in fact the major factor in the failure of the investment banks. Lots of blame to pass around...uninformed borrowers, predatory lenders, $ blind investors and the administration that let it happen without 1 effort to reign in the problem before it was too late.l

But yet, many on this board were saying a few months ago that Bushs policy is what drive housing prices up and thus made it impossible for new homeowners to buy a house. So which is it? You cant have both.
BTW - if the administration tried to reign in the problem, it would have been to STOP loans to people less qualified for loans. Want to wager who that might be? You'd have the NAACP and La RAZA all over them. Next time you read " We're an equal opportunity lender". Think about what that means!

By comparing neighborhoods with similar median income levels in New York City, researchers discovered that homeowners in predominantly black or Hispanic neighborhoods were more likely than those in predominantly white neighborhoods to receive their mortgages from a subprime mortgage lender.

As many homeowners know, subprime mortgages are more difficult to maintain because of adjustable interest rates, and higher fees and penalties. Thus, they are more likely to lead to foreclosure. Additionally, credit card companies often target subprime borrowers because they often have poor credit histories that prevent them from qualifying for more desirable credit lines and interest rates.

OK, otherwise I was going to have to go back and throw Alaska in there.

toss in Alabama too

Intersting, yup...all Bush's fault

The government-sponsored company is reworking its accounting back to 2001 in the wake of the scandal that forced out Mr. Raines and the former finance chief J. Timothy Howard, and brought a record $400 million fine in a settlement with regulators.
Mr. Howard and Mr. Raines, who was a White House budget director under President Bill Clinton, were among some 30 current and former Fannie Mae executives and directors under review for possible disciplinary action or termination.

I don't blame Bush, I blame greedy banks, lenders and borrowers!

There's no such thing as independent analysis. The scientific community and the academic worlds are not populated by conservatives so any analysis or facts they offer can be refuted as "liberal" views.

There's no such thing as independent analysis. The scientific community and the academic worlds are not populated by conservatives so any analysis or facts they offer can be refuted as "liberal" views.


Stop stirring %$%$%$%$ :smash::jump1:

I know a lot of conservative scientists.
Hell,
I know a young earth creationist who is a paleontologist...
figure that one out....

People need to push climate change PAST politics.
It is a bigger, separate issues.

People need to push climate change PAST politics.
It is a bigger, separate issues.
Well, I guess that's exactly the problem. This entire debate is a political one, when it should be a scientific one.

The irony of it all, is that Conservatives typically see the climate debate as an inhibitor of business growth, while those on the Left (and us smarter than you Independents) see the response to climate change as a vehicle for business growth via new Energy Technologies.

But Conservatives have been in charge the past 8 years and have effectively killed the debate. Yes, Gore should have pushed for more when VP, but the country was fat dumb and happy and China wasn't consuming nearly as much coal and oil as they do today.

If this nation doesn't wake up and embrace energy tech as the next revolution...your children are not going to enjoy the same quality of life we have today. And the denials from the Right will be largely to blame.

-spence

Is anyone familiar with Six Sigma techniques? Its data bases analysis and can be used to determine cause and effect. Its used in analzing business and engineering processes. I would love to see it applied to all the "symptoms" of Bush's policies to really determine what the true source of the problem is.
The problem is, there's been no variation in Bush Policy. Incompetence, dishonesty, cronyisim, etc... have all been pretty consistent thoughout both terms :hihi:

More interesting would be to use QFD to choose the next President!

-spence

I know a lot of conservative scientists.
Oil company geologists don't count - neither do tobacco addiction tweakers. A stirring aside, I have a great deal of respect for scientists and academics.
You, know, there was a time when people were recruited from the academic community to work with the government to solve problems - when thier opinions held weight. There's this notion now that if you don't work in traditional business, or you don't come from the military, you really did not work for a living.
What separated this country from others - what made us great, was that in the 19th century, while european nations were investing in social welfare programs, the US was investing in education. Education brought about upward mobility and the rise of a middleclass.

"But yet, many on this board were saying a few months ago that Bushs policy is what drive housing prices up and thus made it impossible for new homeowners to buy a house. So which is it? You cant have both"
Jim - You need to read and understand the post before you respond. Housing prices are indeed driven "up" by easing credit standards....a simple function of the market that even a layman should understand. Fannie/Freddie and the entire secondary market are major factors in todays crisis. Purchase of risky mortgages by these institutions and investment banks is the reason were all in this mess today...and their policies have been driven by big money, hedge funds, unregulated investment firms....who until now have been making a killing....and who has been the champion of this hand off approach? I'll let you figure that out. Regarding your NY comment...yes..."lower income" neighborhoods are the hardest hit because of their inability to qualify by traditional morthgage standards. The fact that foreclosures are now striking hard at middle class America shows the extent of this problem. I won't even comment on your "veiled" racist comments.

Oil company geologists don't count - neither do tobacco addiction tweakers. A stirring aside, I have a great deal of respect for scientists and academics.

Figures you pink panty wearing liberal pussy.

Acedemics simply are the product of Liberal universities, they all have an agenda, and it's not to do God's work.

But the scientists who work for big business are another breed entirely. They get paid a hell of a lot of money. Logic would dictate that only the best and brightest would see such compensation.

And you DARE question their findings?

By that measure alone I have much more faith in the guy from those Exxon commercials working to save the world, than I would from a Rev. Wright humping libber like RIROCKHOUND.

-spence

Maybe, in light of the fact that we are now teetering on the brink of financial collaspe, in retrospect, more government regulation of the lending industry might have been a better course.
One good thing, most of the windows on Wall St don't open, so we don't have people jumping.

Crafty, I can't even begin to respond but appreciate the well thought out posting. Its intersting that the "real" genuine threat in the world is Russia. Just curious, when has Russia attacked the US, when have Russian soliders fought US soliders? Try.....never.

...the history books you're learning from were copyrighted in 1985.

Well, we actually fought against Russian pilots flying Red Chinese MIGs during the Korean War - that's been confirmed by Soviet pilots who defected. That's certainly more than never...

Actually, some of the history books I have are more than 100 years old and accurate as well - but I shudder to think of anyone viewing the '80's as "Yesteryear" - :hs:

Eeeeee cooodeesh.

" Just curious, when has Russia attacked the US, when have Russian soliders fought US soliders? Try.....never. "

Obviously.................. you have never seen a Rambo movie!! ;-)