This morning McCain stated with upmost conviction that our economy was sound, while throughout the day the DOW dropped over 500 points over the failure of two major financial institutions.

Now it looks like the biggest issue that could "potentially" smear Palin if true, and it does look somewhat credible, she's going to claim Liberal bias on and not cooperate.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26727937/

The Obama message is that McCain brings 4 more years of Bush policy. We're seeing the inability to recognize realty and the appearance of being above the law.

Sound familiar?

Will be interesting if this reflect in the polls the coming weeks.

-spence

Spence, the problem is that most americans dont understand how our economy works and are just going to vote on emotion.. who they 'like' better...as opposed to who will do a better job.

Spence, the problem is that most americans dont understand how our economy works and are just going to vote on emotion.. who they 'like' better...as opposed to who will do a better job.
Including the most coached candidates for the presidential position, the messiah an the pow

sad but true.

from the AP

What had happened?
Some seeds of the current crisis were planted in the late 1990s, when Congress and President Clinton reshaped the financial landscape. They removed Depression-era barriers between commercial banks and investment firms and allowed the creation of financial behemoths where, years later, the risks of underwriting risky subprime mortgages were somewhat hidden.

A chief author of that law was Phil Gramm, then a Republican senator from Texas and until recently one of McCain’s top economic advisers.
McCain voted for a Senate version of the bill but did not vote on the final package. Democratic vice presidential nominee Joe Biden voted against the Senate version but for the final compromise that was signed by Clinton.

Its pretty obvious that we are also paying the price for all of that 'free' money from Alan Greenspan.. cheap credit cards.. spend spend spend.. Buy tons of chinese crap.. create a huge trade deficit.. but what do I know.. i am just a lowly artist.

I blame it all on Clinton.. not bush... he was too busy trying to screw us in other ways :hihi:

from the AP

What had happened?
Some seeds of the current crisis were planted in the late 1990s, when Congress and President Clinton reshaped the financial landscape. They removed Depression-era barriers between commercial banks and investment firms and allowed the creation of financial behemoths where, years later, the risks of underwriting risky subprime mortgages were somewhat hidden.

A chief author of that law was Phil Gramm, then a Republican senator from Texas and until recently one of McCain’s top economic advisers.
McCain voted for a Senate version of the bill but did not vote on the final package. Democratic vice presidential nominee Joe Biden voted against the Senate version but for the final compromise that was signed by Clinton.
This is probably valid, although I'm sure there's more too it then that.

To be honest I don't hear much responsible economics coming from either side. As one newsmaker put it, it's just too complicated for most people to understand.

-spence

laissez faire economics

happened through out history

whats so complicated about it?

I'm gonna try that approach..
EPO: Sir...it appears that that striper measures 33 7/8"
SKW: I'm not going to cooperate in your investigation...I believe it's tainted by EPO bias!
Repub. Reality
EPO: OK sir...we'll let that slide this time (wink wink) I was being a little unfair in my investigation.
My Reality
EPO: Give me the keys to your boat and truck and put your hands behind your back.:cens:

whats so complicated about it?
1) Requires a nuanced understanding of how markets operate
2) Requires people comprehend and accept things they don't want to hear

Watch CNBC then listen to politicians. It's as if they're often living other realities.

-spence

1) Requires a nuanced understanding of how markets operate
2) Requires people comprehend and accept things they don't want to hear

Watch CNBC then listen to politicians. It's as if they're often living other realities.

-spence

Realities of the rich and pampered

The whole mortgage crisis is Enron on a national scale- People should see jail time for this mess..

The whole mortgage crisis is Enron on a national scale- People should see jail time for this mess..


I can see the congressional hearing now.

it will never happen

If there ever was a time to make the Dem argument for increased regulation...the time is now.

-spence

If there ever was a time to make the Dem argument for increased regulation...the time is now.

-spence

I dont' hear it.

I dont' hear it.

I'm hearing it a bit from Obama/Biden and indirectly from McCain, but McCain is in a real pickle here.

He's asserting he'll "clean up" Wall Street, but the only way to enforce the "clean up" is through new legislation. If he were to come right out and say "regulation" the base would shoot him on stage.

The funny thing is that I think the Street likes limited regulation. It adds an element of protection and predictability to the investment process.

It's the corporations and their lobby ranks that want less as it makes it easier to game the system.

The result is going to be headline news for the time to some. I'm for limited regulation personally, we can argue what "limited" really means.

-spence

I'm hearing it a bit from Obama/Biden and indirectly from McCain, but McCain is in a real pickle here.

He's asserting he'll "clean up" Wall Street, but the only way to enforce the "clean up" is through new legislation. If he were to come right out and say "regulation" the base would shoot him on stage.

The funny thing is that I think the Street likes limited regulation. It adds an element of protection and predictability to the investment process.

It's the corporations and their lobby ranks that want less as it makes it easier to game the system.

The result is going to be headline news for the time to some. I'm for limited regulation personally, we can argue what "limited" really means.

-spence

Then less lobbyists!!!!

I agree the two camps are in a real bind with this one.

from the AP

What had happened?
Some seeds of the current crisis were planted in the late 1990s, when Congress and President Clinton reshaped the financial landscape. They removed Depression-era barriers between commercial banks and investment firms and allowed the creation of financial behemoths where, years later, the risks of underwriting risky subprime mortgages were somewhat hidden.

A chief author of that law was Phil Gramm, then a Republican senator from Texas and until recently one of McCain’s top economic advisers.
McCain voted for a Senate version of the bill but did not vote on the final package. Democratic vice presidential nominee Joe Biden voted against the Senate version but for the final compromise that was signed by Clinton.

Throw Nafta in the mix. Clinton very well was one helluva of a Republican president.

If there ever was a time to make the Dem argument for increased regulation...the time is now.

-spence

Your absolutely right, Spence. The Dems could really nail the coffin shut on this one with some ambitious policy. Obama should not even have to criticize the otherside, or lay fault; but rather present some headline stealing comprehensive solutions.

Palin is on the campaign trail right, is she taking questions yet?

Then less lobbyists!!!!

I agree the two camps are in a real bind with this one.
Isn't the McCain campain staffed with a boatload of former lobbyists, including most of his closest advisors?

More fodder.

-spence

Palin is on the campaign trail right, is she taking questions yet?

yeah right.. I am convinced she is the female GWB in the making.. a perfet puppet to convey the party message.. :hs:

yeah right.. I am convinced she is the female GWB in the making.. a perfet puppet to convey the party message.. :hs:
Funny you should say that. There's already talk that the neocon crowd loves her for exactly that reason.

-spence

Looking backward, it's clear that the Bush administration needed a more comprehensive approach. The last time the financial system imploded, in the 1930s, the Franklin Roosevelt administration combined government recapitalization with tough regulation. But the government-loathing Bush administration has pumped in capital only in fits and starts, and remains allergic to regulation.
Looking forward, the next administration will need to do the job properly. If the next president is John McCain, one of his top financial advisers is former senator Phil Gramm of Texas, a key architect of the extreme financial deregulation that created this mess.
Barack Obama might be more like Roosevelt. Indeed, if Obama does a more effective job of connecting the dots between Republican ideology and the current financial crash, it might even save his faltering campaign.
Robert Kuttner's new book is "Obama's Challenge: America's Economic Crisis and the Power of a Transformative Presidency.

ahh good old Roosevelt..
screw the POW.. bring back the WPA.. :buds:

Looking backward, it's clear that the Bush administration needed a more comprehensive approach.
The problem is all these bow tie wearing young Republican Heritage foundation whack jobs that believe lower tax rates and less regulation is the freaking bible.

If taxes and regulation are so bad then let's eliminate them...ooops our Government just stopped working.

Same goes for the socialist freaks on the fringe left, but to be honest there are a lot fewer of them out there.

What's different this time around is that the Republican congress under Clinton used their power to change the rules so it was easier for them to get their way. Then they took K Street to new heights in an attempt to lock in their power eternally. Then Bush came along, made the lobbying issue even worse and expanded executive authority to get his way, because they're just smarter than everyone else.

It sure has made their friends really, really rich in the process. I wonder where all that money came from?

Oh yes, the burden falls on the taxpayer. And who can least afford it? Oh yes the middle class.

Obama, here's your message.

-spence

Obama is holding a $7000.00 a plate fundraiser with Barbara Striesand. Way to set the tone. Nothing like taking from the rich and giving to thyself. Once again, what's bad for America is good for the Dems. Ever wonder why that is?

well Buckman, usually the GOP screws everything up and the Dems have to come in and fix everything.. :hihi:

Obama is holding a $7000.00 a plate fundraiser with Barbara Striesand. Way to set the tone. Nothing like taking from the rich and giving to thyself. Once again, what's bad for America is good for the Dems. Ever wonder why that is?

Ummm, it's not going into his pocket. And it's a lot more than 7K :hee:

-spence

Ummm, it's not going into his pocket. And it's a lot more than 7K :hee:

-spence

yeah, about 20K more

just curious, wtf have the geniuses in the democratic congress been doing? Zip.

BTW - Ben aka fishweewee/poopoo predicted this all happening 9 months ago.

And Spence, you misquoted McCain, he said the fundamentals of the economy are still strong and he is correct.

I could of sworn he said "fundamentally sound". Funny how the true meaning can change when you leave one little word out of a sentence. I'm sure it was a simple oversight though.

I could of sworn he said "fundamentally sound". Funny how the true meaning can change when you leave one little word out of a sentence. I'm sure it was a simple oversight though.


Thats what I heard. Jimmy only hears what he wants to.

BUt I dont hear anything from washington at the moment, none of these richy, rich people want to stand up for the working stiffs like us.

I am so glad I have at least some my retirement in my mattress that's worth more than what I have left on paper at Ned's place at the moment.

And Spence, you misquoted McCain, he said the fundamentals of the economy are still strong and he is correct.

Saying the fundamentals, fundamentally or what I actually said that wasn't even a quote...that the economy is sound are all exactly the same thing in essence. Not sure if your statement was unintentional or just a lie, but if the latter I know where you can get a good job.

The significant point here is that McCain is seeking to distance himself from business as usual, but in reality he's just towing the party line.

Regardless of how bad things may be, to show any lack of optimism that they regard as uniquely American, is off the table. Same thing in Iraq, hell, even McCain is quoted in the Woodward book as remarking about Iraq that "they're spinning everything" and I'd wager a months pay the real McCain (not the phony McCain we see today) actually said it.

If they had real confidence in the American system they'd be preaching more of a pragmatic approach to solving our problems.

The American economy isn't fundamentally sound, and as such one might wish to question the very measurements that the fundamentals seek to measure.

It's a good thing we have cashflow or we'd already all be fishing for bass to feed our families.

-spence

BTW - Ben aka fishweewee/poopoo predicted this all happening 9 months ago.
So why the hell didn't they take steps then to help soften the landing?

Instead we had denial...everything is fine...just keep shopping (which I did :hihi:)

And now we have a knee-jerk reaction where the Fed thinks they have hundreds of billions in reserve to socialize our banking system!

REALITY CHECK: THIS COUNTRY IS BROKE!

-spence

Been broke for sometime, we just keep trying to pass it on to the next generation since 'The great Communicator' bombed Russia out of cash
file:///C:/WINNT/TEMP/moz-screenshot.jpgfile:///C:/WINNT/TEMP/moz-screenshot-1.jpg

http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm

Been broke for sometime, we just keep trying to pass it on to the next generation since 'The great Communicator' bombed Russia out of cash
Russia was failing before Reagan, he just helped kick them over the brink, as did Pope JP2 and a good portion of Eastern Europe.

Here's the rub. The spinsters will try to talk down our debt as a percentage of GDP, but when you look at the changes in the global economy in just the last 5 years (5 years mind you) there are so many more nations competing for the business that the US had a lock on in years past.

Granted, we have the innovative spirit and a legal system that protects IP better than any...

But there's a clear and present danger to our way of life if we can't get on the toe instead of the heels of our skates.

The looming (or already here) energy crisis is only going to exacerbate the issue.

Good thing we have a lot of nukes.

-spence

Interesting and reasonably true points

And here I was hoping high oil prices would help shift that global view.

Also interesting how auto manufacturers have no plans to important their highest mpg vehicles into the US as the emission standards in 1/3 of the country won't allow it to be operated legally.

We also innovated most of these derative vehicles that have caused this current financial crisis

Just some ways I can think of where we can't seem to help ourselves

A flip, flop, aflipiity floppity...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26749280/

On one hand I applaud this, as it will piss off the base given that it's a reasonable thing to say.

That being said, it sure does sound like he's just saying what he thinks people want to hear. I hope he can explain his reversal.

-spence

To change or regulate it you have to first understand it.
I don't think either camp has that insight.

I hear Barney Frank will be holding hearings. That should help Obama.

just curious, wtf have the geniuses in the democratic congress been doing? Zip.

BTW - Ben aka fishweewee/poopoo predicted this all happening 9 months ago.

And Spence, you misquoted McCain, he said the fundamentals of the economy are still strong and he is correct.

Jim.
Republicans had both houses of Congress & Presidency and the prosecutors for the better part of six years. Tell me exactly, with all that is going on now, what they have done?