I came across a bunch of white, yellow and black feathers, and started dressing the tail hook on my plugs... I also put a black feather on a needle fish... My thoughts would be that it always helps, but if that were the case, why do so many plugs come with a bare tail hook? I always second guess myself, assuming the person who designed it set it up to perform at its optimum... I also tried taking the back half of a 9" black sluggo and threaded it onto the tail hook of a black metal lip swimmer... what are your thoughts? Its just funny that seaweed on your hook = no hookup... black feather= enticing action... When to dress and when not to dress?

i dress everything but a spook

My thoughts would be that it always helps, but if that were the case, why do so many plugs come with a bare tail hook?

Because one dressed hook costs about as much as a six pack of singles, and it's too time-consuming for the plug builder to tie his own.

So a dressed hook, be it feathers or bucktail, is always preferred over a bare hook? i would think that a feather fluttering behind a swimmer or pencil would look much better than nothing... and that leads me to ask, why do so many plug builders put trebles as a tail hook? Bass usually hit the front, and that second set just gets their stomach... and if I get a blue, I want a quick release...

why do so many plug builders put trebles as a tail hook?

I've always wondered that myself and prefer plugs w/ dressed tail hooks like #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&'s.
I think the main reason is they probably add more action to the lure (heavier hook waving around from the currents)...e.g. some Al Gag's lures have trebles on the back, some have siwash hooks.

I've had this discussion many times. I know that cost is a factor for many plug builders. John (JNSki) told me that it is the reason his plugs do not have dressed siwash tail hooks. He also told me that he dresses the tails of the plugs he himself fishes. I have found some plugs are MUCH better producers with dressed tail hooks. SS sinking Little Neck Popper is top of that list for me. Yoziri Mag Darter is number two on that list. I have had people tell me that they feel the action is worse on a Mag Darter with a dressed tail. Might be the amount of current I'm used to fishing them in. The majority of people I asked seem to think that needlefish are better with dressed tails UNLESS the dressed tail makes the profile appear to big. Most agree that metal lips should have dressed tail hooks or dressed flags. Darters, on the other hand, seems to be a personal preference. By their very nature, they seem to get the most "Hook Tweaking" from people. IE: I like to dress SS Darters most of the time. Some like to swap the front hook for a 4/0 and leave a 3/0 on the back.
Bottom line. Some things work better for some people, so experiment!

Emgred - For the SS sinking Little Neck Popper, is that when swimming it or popping it or both?

i'm going to dress almost everything from now on. three cast in with a dressed gibbs, a fish exploded on it. jumped about 2ft in the air.(and took it due to a poorly tied knot :wall:) the other gibbs i had was an exact replica (i learned my lesson two nights before about only having one of each plug with you) that i didnt have a dressing for. and all i got in about 40 minutes was a small bump at it.

so from now on everything gets a dressing. until i find out otherwise theyd prefer it with out.

while on the topic though.. how big of a difference does the color make. ie: a white dressing on a black plug or vice versa? is it more effective to color code OR clash colors?

Emgred - For the SS sinking Little Neck Popper, is that when swimming it or popping it or both?

When I fish this plug, I use a combination of swimming and popping; slow pop pop, let it sink a little, swim it back to the surface and repeat or vary - you get the idea.
Just a note - I use a split ring with the dressed siwash so the hook folds closer to the plug when it is cast.

I always use a split ring on my hooks... i know there are VERY experienced guys that say crimp on Vmc hooks never open, but it just defies logic to me that a cut hook you have to bend on is stronger than one that is closed... I try to color code my feathers to my plugs, but then again, I started this thread to ask questions, so dont follow what I do... who knows... ask a fish, not me!

I always use a split ring on my hooks.

My comment on split rings was only in relation to the tail hook. (Will not open the belly hook can of worms). There are plugs that I will use an open eye siwash on, but on the SS Little I use closed eye & split ring.
As to color; white, yellow and black is all I use. Black with black or blurple plugs, yellow with yellow, white on most every thing else. I've done some red over white and some brown over white (sandeel color plugs), but I think that was more for me.

On big swimmers, no tail hook, a dressing alone is Ok but not mandatory

On pencils and spooks, tail dressings cause drag and deaden the action substantially (which some guys like/ not me)
On surface poppers, usually (though Pili poppers are very good without)

On darters, I never used dressing, but some LI guys apparently do and I wouldn't argue with anyone from LI about darters

On needles.....usually, but it does substantially lengthen the plug's profile and if fish are on small bait that isn't always good. You can fish needles with just a dressing and no tail hook if you want to avoid small fish. Does change the balance some which on needles will make the plug go deeper.

On jointed plugs, no hook but definitely a dressing.

Fish can be on anchovies which might be 1" long an they still hit 7" needles..
I think bass think For the most part bass think it is a pod of bait an not one individual piece of bait..Feathers help to give that impression especially when the plug is paused an the feathers will breathe..I like to use bucktails on my swimmers no hook most times..it really adds to the attraction for me anyways..
I never use em on pencils..
I just spent 5 nights out at Montauk.
The ss little neck popper with Feathers is one of my favorite nightime lures..
It has outfished the famous yellow darter at times for me out there..

My comment on split rings was only in relation to the tail hook. (Will not open the belly hook can of worms). There are plugs that I will use an open eye siwash on, but on the SS Little I use closed eye & split ring.
As to color; white, yellow and black is all I use. Black with black or blurple plugs, yellow with yellow, white on most every thing else. I've done some red over white and some brown over white (sandeel color plugs), but I think that was more for me.
I am in the process of making a couple of plugs. I did a search and found this thread.
Perhaps you can clarify something for me?
Some plugs , small metal lipped swimmers, can have just a feather
( dressed but with no hook). Since I accidentalal purchase several hookless feathered tail - dressings?
I tend to think why not a hook on everything, I know bass hit the front but whats your opinion?

I like to use dressed on swimmers because it gives you a sorta jointed. If you have a jointed and put a dressed hook on it, you have a double jointed. I think that the more joints (on a plug) the more sinewy ( is that a word?) or snake like the action.

yeah I get that, makes tons of sense but what I don't get is why whould it have only a feather and not a hook. will the addition of a hook cause too much weight in the back? drag?

I am in the process of making a couple of plugs. I did a search and found this thread.
Perhaps you can clarify something for me?
Some plugs , small metal lipped swimmers, can have just a feather
( dressed but with no hook). Since I accidentalal purchase several hookless feathered tail - dressings?
I tend to think why not a hook on everything, I know bass hit the front but whats your opinion?

I will use a flag (dressed tail, no hook) on plugs that came that way; IE Bob Hahn's.

From a very knowledgeable surfcaster: ""Flags" are best for light swimming plugs like Hahns or on any Surftster. Dannys and others are OK with just a dressed hook."
The reasoning is that the action will be effected by the "keel" of the rear siwash on some plugs. A Gary2 Slim is a perfect example of a plug that is adversely effected by putting a dressed siwash on the back as opposed to a flag.

I liked to build my Giant Pikes with a tied tail. I tie my own and make them longer then what you can buy. I like the way it waves behind the plug making it look more alive. If you are going to fool a big fish with a wooden plug you need to have everything working, color, smell ( I use a scented jell) shape, action and size ( I strongly believe big fish like big bait). I make my own lips to get a strong action at a slow retrieve so if I wanted to put a bare treble on the tail the weight would not affect the action ( and would be a lot quicker than tying tails), but it would not attract like the tied tail does. Ninety percent of the stripers I hook are on the front treble, a few fall of the front and are hooked by the second belly hook, a tail treble is not needed unless you are hunting bluefish. They call "tied tails" bluefish proofing the plug. Stripers are head hunters! Hope that helps. Gary

..........i like tails on my plugs because it makes them look per-ri-ty....some plugs cast better w/o tails....on distance casting plugs like the 5 and 7 inch loaded cordell poppers .

I'll use dressed single hooks on many. And the sluggo on the end of a plug, I've done that as well. I'll just try different idea's, and if they work, so be it. And if they don't, I try something else.

Gary - welcome to S-B - I believe we met briefly on Cutty at the club check-in / check-out handover

Soooo, as long as we are on the topic...how do you tie up your tails/flags/siwash??

Gary (Big Water) - Thanks for the input!
Have used your tip about Lunker Lotion. :thanks:
And just in case you have not been told this; your pikie's are SWEET!:btu:

welcome gary

:wavey:

Hi Guys! Its Nice to be here!! Hi Emgred, Hi Mike, I guess they let anybody on this site!:hs:
Hey John, I remember Cutty, I remember lounging on the porch after four hard days of fishing when a cry came through the Club to, "Hide your Plugs!". I looked across the lawn and it looked like a "Horde of Barbarians" coming from the boat. After I hid my plugs I helped get the women and children to safety. That's how I remember it.:o
I will miss the expo on Sunday, I am bringing my surf rods from the 80's to Julio in Waltham to have them refinished. The only thing I have done to them in the last 25 years is fish them. They will appreciate the attention. :spin: Gary

Soooo, as long as we are on the topic...how do you tie up your tails/flags/siwash??

To do flags I use a leftover piece of thru wire. Make a bunch of marks in it with dikes to hold the thread and bend a loop. Leave the other end long to hold it in the vise like a fly and then after it's dry trim it. Sort of looks like this
?
Except the dot is long
Close the flag loop around the tail loop

On Bombers, big Swimmers and some needles I add a dressed hook. I have a few of the 5" Choopy's needles that have the flag tails. On the North Shore of L.I. I have caught more fish on them last year than with anything else.

The only problem with the dressed hooks is the price. At a buck and a half and more it does get a bit expensive. I am currently looking for a cheap vice to try my hand at tying my own.

I guess they let anybody on this site!:hs:


:lama:


:hidin:

No, really, I'm serious. How do you tie these things? Feathers, bucktails, feathers and bucktails, sparse, heavy, long, short, colors.....I have tried some of each and seem to be more satisfied with feathers and tail hairs with the feathers curved out. Looks like a mess until it gets in the water though. Thinking of longer feathers and more sparse with the hair and adding red to the lighter colored tails. Maybe a small plasic spreader underneath. All input appreciated. Thanks Bob H.

FEATHERS ON TAILS---> it is to generate action to the tail section, giving it a LONGER profile an MORE movement. this WILL ALWAYS ATTRACT more attention to the PLUG, EXAMPLE--- a stick pulled across the water is just a stright line, attach a TAIL, an now you have MOVEMENT as in a fish SWIMMING;)

NOW for TURNING the FEATHERS OUTWARD--> that is the CURVE of the feather is tied (upside down) instead of (right side down) this is called SPLAYING the feather which is for giving more water movement an on NIGHT TIME FISHING it will give the fish a BIGGER SHAPE or (SILHOUETT) to key on, again it's up to you what ever you like:kewl:thats my 2 cents
GOOD LUCK GOOD PLUGGIN:lama:

I like to use white or black saddle hackles, red thread, clear nail polish and a little pearl flashabou.
You need some kind of vise, visegrips will work. A bobbin is also useful
Wrap some thread on the hook, put some nail polish on. Then I put two saddles against one side and wrap to hold, then same on other side. I put two strands of flashabou in and then tie it off.
If you search in flytying you can find some good visuals.
You can make it a lot more complicated if you want but I have found the fish don't care.

I'm in!

(bump)

Some more please sirs.

Good thread. Thanks to everyone. I'm learning alot from this discussion.
Picture shows a super strike "bullet"
I switched the rear treble it came with for a dressed siwash.

Emgred: Could you go into some more detail about using lunker lotion?
I have some but have only tried it once.
Maybe its time to give it another try.
Thanks Bob

Emgred: Could you go into some more detail about using lunker lotion?
I have some but have only tried it once.
Maybe its time to give it another try.
Thanks Bob

Bob
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I got the Lunker Lotion tip from something that Gary (Big Water) wrote. Hopefully he will chime in with more detail. I just squeeze some into the holes where the hook hangers are. Not only ups production, but it seems to retard hook rusting.
Ed

Rmarsh, I routinely spray menhaden oil or Sea Bait(any scent) on my artificials. I think it helps. It certainly can't hurt!

Thanks Steve: I guess my problem was that I was putting way too much, and didn't try it again. But since the topic came up I knew I should learn how it's used. The spray method sounds like it would apply a very light coating.

I use the Menhaden/Bunker Jell from Atlas Mikes. To give credit where credit is due, I got the tip by reading an article by Charlie Soares. I had trouble finding it so I e-mailed him and he sent me some. I had given him some plugs one time and he remembered me. Besides the hook holes I put some on the tied tail (another reason to have a tied tail). The jell seems to last longer than the oil. As I have said before it makes a difference. I caught a nice striper on Cutty this past fall and when my buddy came up to me the first thing he said was, "You still using that bunker jell?" I smiled and said, "Everytime". It can be a pain when you are out on a rock in the dark, in big waves and you are trying to squeeze a little gell into hook hole. Sometimes I go for awhile without a hit, put some gell on and get a hit the next cast. :huh:

Thanks Ed: I was coating the entire lure with it (probably too much)and it severely affected the lures swimming action. I will try it the way you have suggested.

Hello Big Water and thanks for your reply. Glad I asked the question and have guys like yourself to fill in the blanks for me.:think:

It can be a pain to apply in crappy conditions. The gel or stick probably stays on longer. I'll have to try it. Presently, I carry a small spray bottle in my bag. I , like Gary, have been fishing with no hits, then spray some stuff on and immediatley get hit. Like I said, it can't hurt. Fish have a good sense of smell and applying scent might trigger a strike. Who knows? Freshwater bass fishermen swear by it.

smelly jelly works pretty good.. I goop in up in the belly hole and smear it all over the nooks and crannies of the hardware- it will stay on there for a long time..

Eben, that's what the freshwater bass guys use.

smelly jelly works pretty good.. I goop in up in the belly hole and smear it all over the nooks and crannies of the hardware- it will stay on there for a long time..

Eben, that's what the freshwater bass guys use.

Easy Steve, Smelly Jelly works great on soft plastics in salt water.