View Full Version : How many more...


JoeP
10-28-2008, 10:11 PM
of these kinds of stories do Obama supporters and fence-sitters need to read (and blatantly ignore) before they realize what kind of man they are voluntarily putting into the role of leader of our great nation:

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/28/la-times-refuses-release-tape-obama-praising-controversial-activist/

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/28/obama-affinity-marxists-dates-college-days/

the other similar stories are well known.


Obama-defenders can put all the spin they want on these types of stories but they are simply downright scary. His beyond radical views are slowly but surely seeping out towards the end of this election campaign and people are being lulled to sleep by the feel-good "change" theme...

slapshot
10-29-2008, 06:42 AM
Why has Michelle Obamma been silenced?

PaulS
10-29-2008, 06:59 AM
Frankly I use to vote for the pubes most of the time until the classless postings, made up stories and lies about the dems got to be to much for me to take. I got tired of hearing more about how bad they thought the opponent was rather than what they actually planned to do if elected that was the final nail in the coffin for me.

The Dad Fisherman
10-29-2008, 07:20 AM
Why has Michelle Obamma been silenced?

I Know....she really needs to start chatting things up more....like Cindy does :rolleyes:

RIJIMMY
10-29-2008, 07:25 AM
it doesnt matter, the backlash of bush has blinded everyone. There is too much momentum behind obama now. Look on the bright side..
1. I never want to hear about racism again
2. All racial quotas SHOULD BE ended immediately, you have equal rights now
3. Silence the libs, you have your way, now lets see how you do?

Nebe
10-29-2008, 08:54 AM
sound bites are over rated.

EarnedStripes44
10-29-2008, 08:58 AM
it doesnt matter, the backlash of bush has blinded everyone. There is too much momentum behind obama now. Look on the bright side..
1. I never want to hear about racism again
2. All racial quotas SHOULD BE ended immediately, you have equal rights now
3. Silence the libs, you have your way, now lets see how you do?

Racism? Barack is half white.

RIJIMMY
10-29-2008, 09:00 AM
Racism? Barack is half white.

i dont ever want to hear that African Americans are not given equal opportunity in this country. I do not want to hear that we are a racist country and blacks are second class citizens. If Obama is elected, that is 100% proof that these issues are behind us. Agree?

EarnedStripes44
10-29-2008, 09:08 AM
I dont think this is a racist country; the days of racism as an government legitimized institution are over, but I do think that there are some racist people in this country and racism is far more subterranean now than it was and not just white against black but even light skin blacks on darker skinned blacks.

RIJIMMY
10-29-2008, 09:08 AM
sound bites are over rated.

Apparently not!
1. Change you can Believe in!
2. Another 4 years of Bush!

EarnedStripes44
10-29-2008, 09:11 AM
Look at those dissaffected youths who were plotting to take out Obama (which they probably would not have considering the security detail that surrounds him). Obviously some people cant put the racism issue behind us. It would help those kids however if they had jobs and education. They would spend less time worrying about the threat from blacks.

The Dad Fisherman
10-29-2008, 09:15 AM
If Obama is elected, that is 100% proof that these issues are behind us. Agree?

Only of he gets 100% of the Vote..... (You can help with this one) :hihi:



Oh....and we get rid of these 2 idiots....

Men charged with plotting to kill Obama

(CNN) -- Federal prosecutors charged two men with plotting a "killing spree" against African-Americans that would have been capped with an attempt to kill Sen. Barack Obama while they wore white tuxedos, federal officials said Monday.

Paul Schlesselman, left, and Daniel Cowart said they planned to kill more than 100 African-Americans.

1 of 2 The U.S. attorney's office in Jackson, Tennessee, said Daniel Cowart, 20, and Paul Schlesselman, 18, were self-described white supremacists who met online through a mutual friend.

Both men have been charged with illegal possession of a sawed-off shotgun, conspiracy to rob a federally licensed gun dealer and making threats against a presidential candidate.

The men planned to kill more than 100 African-Americans, including 14 who would be beheaded, according to the affidavit. But federal law enforcement sources said there was no evidence Cowart, of Bells, Tennessee, and Schlesselman, of West Helena, Arkansas, had any details of Obama's schedule.

"We take this very, very seriously but we see no evidence these guys have the ability or the wherewithal to pull off what they say they wanted to do," one law enforcement source said.

According to an affidavit from the federal agent who questioned them, Cowart and Schlesselman planned to charge at Obama with a car, firing from the windows as they went. They would be dressed in white tuxedos and top hats during the attempt, the affidavit states.

Cowart and Schlesselman were arrested outside Jackson, about 75 miles east of Memphis, Tennessee, after an aborted robbery attempt last week, according to court records.

Though they told investigators they would be willing to die in their mission, the men backed out of their October 21 attempt to rob the gun dealer after spotting two cars and a dog at the home, the affidavit states. The men also shot out the window of a church on their way back to Cowart's grandfather's home, where they were arrested the next day.

Cowart and Schlesselman made their initial appearances before a federal judge Monday and are scheduled for a bond hearing Thursday in Memphis.

Obama, an Illinois Democrat, is the first African-American nominee to lead a major-party ticket and was placed under Secret Service protection in May 2007, far earlier than other candidates.

Eric Zahren, a spokesman for the Secret Service, said it was unclear whether the suspects would have had the capability or means to carry out any sort of plot. But he said the matter was being taken seriously, and a joint investigation was under way.

There was no indication either had attended any Obama event or had drawn Secret Service attention in the past, Zahren said.

Campaign spokeswoman Linda Douglass said, "We never comment on security matters."

Threats against Obama have led to arrests in two previous cases. In one, federal prosecutors concluded that the three people arrested with drugs and weapons in a suburban Denver motel posed a "true threat" to the candidate.

In the second, a Florida man was charged with threatening bodily harm against the candidate in August. He has pleaded not guilty

The Dad Fisherman
10-29-2008, 09:16 AM
I guess i'm a little sloooowwww

RIJIMMY
10-29-2008, 09:24 AM
there will always be idiots, but you cannot base our opinion of society as a whole on that.
Louis Farrakan is still around too.

bssb
10-29-2008, 09:26 AM
Palin appointed friends and donors to key posts in Alaska, records show
100-plus jobs went to campaign donors or their relatives, sometimes without apparent regard to qualifications. Several donors got state-subsidized loans for business ventures of dubious public value.

William Timmons, the Washington lobbyist who John McCain has named to head his presidential transition team, aided an influence effort on behalf of Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein to ease international sanctions against his regime.

ANCHORAGE — Gov. Sarah Palin’s firing of former state Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan was proper, but she abused her power in attempting to have her former brother-in-law Alaska State Trooper Michael Wooten fired.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDofbll86dY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5mdIPNB8t8

bssb
10-29-2008, 09:37 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2OUJ8ZUTiI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xqNbZKIQUs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZfROQxXpMI

The Dad Fisherman
10-29-2008, 09:48 AM
there will always be idiots, but you cannot base our opinion of society as a whole on that.
Louis Farrakan is still around too.

I don't....Like I said before if we could use idiots for fuel there wouldn't be an energy crisis.

My point being is that even if obama gets elected racism is not dead....It just shows that there has been a shift in tolerance

RIJIMMY
10-29-2008, 10:08 AM
BTW, JoeP, for such a smart guy, I'm not sure why you hang around with that Rockhound nut.

bssb
10-29-2008, 10:26 AM
yeah there aren't any racist in america. if by america you mean canada. I would estimate that about half of the republicans in this counrty are racist.


proof---->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJghQMq49dw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHrExRHZnm0

RIJIMMY
10-29-2008, 11:53 AM
[QUOTE=bssb;633025]yeah there aren't any racist in america. if by america you mean canada. I would estimate that about half of the republicans in this counrty are racist.


[\QUOTE]

thats brilliant. Just curious why its the republicans that are racist?
You do realize under a republican President we had 2 African American Secrataries of State and a Latino Attorney General?

durrr..........

I never said there were no racists, but an Obama vicory should stop the freaking whining that race is "holding you back". Apparntly its not if an African American can be president. There is nothing holding anyone back, except Jesse and Al who would be out of business.

The Dad Fisherman
10-29-2008, 12:02 PM
but an Obama vicory should stop the freaking whining that race is "holding you back". Apparntly its not if an African American can be president. There is nothing holding anyone back, except Jesse and Al who would be out of business.


I can agree with that.......pretty sure that's what Bill Cosby Said :D

bssb
10-29-2008, 12:37 PM
I think they kinda have to have a few non-whites around so that your party can lie to itself and say "see! were not racist! oh yeah? watch your racist republican buddies!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY04gIruZ4E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPGu-7PjIp0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I47QGzQxUp0

RIJIMMY
10-29-2008, 12:41 PM
[QUOTE=bssb;633095]I think they kinda have to have a few non-whites around so that your party can lie to itself and say "see! were not racist! oh yeah? watch your racist republican buddies!
QUOTE]

I am an independent, with converservative/libertarian views..... but know many, many republicans who are far from racist. For every white republican racist, I'll give you 3 black democrat racists. Lets start with Reverend Wright, Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton.

EarnedStripes44
10-29-2008, 12:55 PM
Sen. Trent Lott- Republican racist, now give me 3 more black democrat racist. And then give me some more black democrat racist who have actually been elected to Senate in the history of the US.

bssb
10-29-2008, 12:58 PM
wow, you can name 3! I just gave examples of like 20. and there isn't enough time in the day to start listing them all. to say there are more racist democrats than there are republicans is so far from reality I now know that arguing with you about this. your head is so far in the sand that you might know where bin ladin is.

:wall:FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL:wall:

The Dad Fisherman
10-29-2008, 01:05 PM
Racists are Racists....they don't belong to a certain party :rolleyes:

fishbones
10-29-2008, 01:22 PM
yeah there aren't any racist in america. if by america you mean canada. I would estimate that about half of the republicans in this counrty are racist.

Wow, all that pot you're smoking must be doing a number on your brain cells. Saying that half the Republicans in this country are racist would be like me saying half the unemployed people in this country are lazy, worthless drains on society. Would you put yourself in that group?

And I always thought the liberal way of thinking was to be tolerant of others.:doh:

bssb
10-29-2008, 03:02 PM
you're right, we should tolerate racism in this counrty:wall: Only a true republican bigot would make that argument.

The Dad Fisherman
10-29-2008, 03:07 PM
Why Do all the kooks come from the North Shore :hihi:






(before you go all nuts....its a joke)

fishbones
10-29-2008, 03:12 PM
you're right, we should tolerate racism in this counrty:wall: Only a true republican bigot would make that argument.


Could you please explain how you interpreted my statement to mean that we should tolerate racism? But please leave out your little group of video montage's. That stuff is really hackneyed.

You painted with a broad brush by saying half of the Republicans in this country are racist and I did the same to you to make a point. You have no way to quantify what you said. You just post your uninformed rants and then stick your resin covered fingers in your ears and say nah nee nah nee nah nah like a child.

Before calling me bigot, you should get to know me. Then, if you still want to call me a bigot, or anything else for that matter, go ahead. I have thick skin and and a very liberal wife.

RIJIMMY
10-29-2008, 03:14 PM
you're right, we should tolerate racism in this counrty:wall: Only a true republican bigot would make that argument.

well buddy, maybe do a little digging and you'll find a very hard fact. Racism is not illegal. Thats right, there are no laws against it and in the country we are free to beleive what we want.

Its a unique facet in America that the KKK and American Nazis can practice and preach freely. Welcome to the USA.
If you think republicans are racists you're misinformed and quite honestly not very bright.

bssb
10-29-2008, 03:23 PM
all the proof I need are those videos. you see how many people are saying Muslum! Terrorist! you show me an obama rally where people are yelling NATZI! SKinhead! Fascist! go on... find proof of your racist democratic rallies. I'll be waiting, but not holding my breath.

fishbones
10-29-2008, 03:33 PM
all the proof I need are those videos. you see how many people are saying Muslum! Terrorist! you show me an obama rally where people are yelling NATZI! SKinhead! Fascist! go on... find proof of your racist democratic rallies. I'll be waiting, but not holding my breath.


Nothing like responding to a question by changing the argument. Who here mentioned anything about racist Democratic rallies? I did yell "fascist" last week, but it was at my mother when she tried to serve me green beans at a family dinner.

And by the way, your spelling stinks.

RIJIMMY
10-29-2008, 03:36 PM
do a little reading my friend....As Bob Marley siad, know your history, so you will know where you're coming from

On this day in 1869, the Republican-controlled 40th Congress passed the 15th Amendment, extending to African-Americans the right to vote. 98% of Republicans in Congress voted in favor (a few abstained because they thought the measure did not go far enough). 97% of Democrats voted against the 15th Amendment.

At a March 20, 1854 meeting convened by anti-slavery activist Alvan Bovay, fifty-five men and three women called for all opponents of slavery to unite in a new organization, to be called "the Republican Party."

On this day in 1877, Republican President Rutherford Hayes appointed Frederick Douglass the U.S. Marshall for the District of Colombia. His chief duty was enforcing federal court orders within the nation's capital. Another of his duties was introducing the President at official functions. Democrats expressed their outrage at an African-American being in such a high-visibility government post.

Robert DeLarge, an African-American congressman and Republican, who was born on this day in 1842. He helped write the South Carolina state constitution of 1868 and then won election to the state legislature.

Henry Blair, the Republican who led the GOP's final attempt to defend African-Americans from their Democrat oppressors in the post-Civil War South. After rising to the rank of Lt. Colonel of the 15th New Hampshire Volunteers, Blair entered politics, winning a seat in the state legislature in 1866. He then won the first of two terms in the U.S. House of Representatives before being elected to the U.S. Senate in 1874.

On this day in 1956, nineteen Democrat U.S. Senators and seventy-five Democrat U.S. Representatives signed the Southern Manifesto, criticizing the Supreme Court's Brown v. Board of Education decision that struck down racial segregation in public schools.

On this day in 1965, police under the command of Democrat Governor George Wallace attacked African-Americans demonstrating for voting rights in Selma, Alabama. Democrats used bull whips, attack dogs, billy clubs, and tear gas in their "Bloody Sunday" assault

On this day in 1954, Republican President Dwight Eisenhower appointed Ernest Wilkins, an African-American lawyer, as his Asst. Secretary of Labor. Among the responsibilities of his high-profile position was representing the U.S. at international labor conferences

On this day in 1976, Republican President Gerald Ford signed a proclamation formally rescinding Democrat President Franklin Roosevelt's notorious Executive Order 9066, which authorized the internment of 120,000 Japanese-Americans during WWII

Senator Lyman Trumbull (R-IL), the person who wrote the 13th Amendment abolishing slavery. On this day in 1865, the 13th Amendment was passed in the U.S. House of Representatives with unanimous Republican support and against intense Democrat opposition. The measure had already passed in the Republican-dominated U.S. Senate.

On May 2, 1963, police in Birmingham, Alabama -- under the command of the Democrat sheriff, Eugene "Bull" Connor -- attacked several thousand African-American schoolchildren who were demonstrating peacefully for their civil rights. Connor's men used high-pressure hoses, clubs and police dogs in their assault, and then jailed nearly a thousand children.

EarnedStripes44
10-29-2008, 03:54 PM
well buddy, maybe do a little digging and you'll find a very hard fact. Racism is not illegal. Thats right, there are no laws against it and in the country we are free to beleive what we want.

Its a unique facet in America that the KKK and American Nazis can practice and preach freely. Welcome to the USA.
If you think republicans are racists you're misinformed and quite honestly not very bright.

...we are free to believe what we want, but the KKK and American Nazis engage in terrorist activity and incite violence. That is where the line is crossed, and although I do believe a racist is a racist irrespective of political affiliation, forgive the generalization, but liberals dont keep well in the company of Nazi's and the KKK. Just ask Sean Hannity and Pat Buchanan.

JoeP
10-29-2008, 04:01 PM
BTW, JoeP, for such a smart guy, I'm not sure why you hang around with that Rockhound nut.


Fishing crosses all political borders...:hihi: We both know where we stand & don't take these debates too seriously - it's all in fun. Anyways, he'll come around to the light someday...:hihi:


On another note Jim - don't bother trying to argue logic and reason with the illogical and ignorant ... like on this thread. Facts speak for themselves and if some choose to ignore facts and completely make up other facts in ranting & raving fashion I just laugh and move on.

bssb
10-29-2008, 04:01 PM
too bad all your examples are 30-100 years old. and you're right, 30-100 years ago the democratic party was much more racist than the republicans. but things change. the republican party has been taken over by the ultra-conservitive, evangelical far right wing of the party. The Sarah Palins of the world. wanting prayer in schools, creationism and abstinence only. global warming is a hoax, and everyone should own an uzi. If this group had their way we would be living in a theocracy, governed by the rules of the bible. I bet RIJIMMY would vote for Bush again if he could.

RIROCKHOUND
10-29-2008, 04:03 PM
Fishing crosses all political borders...:hihi: We both know where we stand & don't take these debates too seriously - it's all in fun. Anyways, he'll come around to the light someday...:hihi:
.

I keep saying the same thing about him Jim, especially regarding climate change!!!

You should see the email debates we have! Lots of :bs:from both sides, sans the BSSB BS :nailem::scream:

BSSB,
I'm a very liberal guy, but you are making the rest of us 'moonbats' look bad!
Give it a rest dude! You are obviously new to these discussions. Jim is actually a sane, level-headed guy, and posting the same Bill Maher videos won't get you instant credit here. at the end of the day, no one takes it personal, I'd still fish with RIJ if he ever gets back in the water and off his fiberglass jetty!

Nebe
10-29-2008, 04:20 PM
the end is near.

bssb
10-29-2008, 04:24 PM
you can all say what you want, fact of the matter is in less than one week we will have a democraticly controled white house and congress and the republican party will be irrelevant. that being said, I like ranting to all you republicans. this counrty was founded on our ability to non-violently argue our opposing views. I believe everyone has a right to their opinion( no matter how flawed I believe that opinion to be). I encourage everyone to go out and vote for the canidate of thier choice. and yes I do dislike most republicans.

JoeP
10-29-2008, 08:28 PM
you can all say what you want, fact of the matter is in less than one week we will have a democraticly controled white house and congress and the republican party will be irrelevant. that being said, I like ranting to all you republicans. this counrty was founded on our ability to non-violently argue our opposing views. I believe everyone has a right to their opinion( no matter how flawed I believe that opinion to be). I encourage everyone to go out and vote for the canidate of thier choice. and yes I do dislike most republicans.


Wow am I glad you are a spokesman for the far left that has taken over control of the Democratic Party - your "points" say it all and validate many of us Republicans' points...

Oh no, a prayer in school, how horrible :crying:, the insanity of it all.

And by the way you may think you are getting a democratically controlled Obama Whitehouse but you'll soon realize (but I'm sure will never admit) that you just bought socialism!

JohnnyD
10-29-2008, 09:37 PM
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/28/la-times-refuses-release-tape-obama-praising-controversial-activist/

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/28/obama-affinity-marxists-dates-college-days/

Wait, when did Faux News become a reputable source for any kind of bipartisan information.

Nebe
10-30-2008, 07:30 AM
Wow am I glad you are a spokesman for the far left that has taken over control of the Democratic Party - your "points" say it all and validate many of us Republicans' points...

Oh no, a prayer in school, how horrible :crying:, the insanity of it all.

And by the way you may think you are getting a democratically controlled Obama Whitehouse but you'll soon realize (but I'm sure will never admit) that you just bought socialism!

so what is the boy in the class that is muslim supposed to do when the whole class is supposed to prey??

Bush's wallstreet bailout plan was as socialized as they come, so it seems that the republicans were the first to buy it.

RIJIMMY
10-30-2008, 08:37 AM
You guys are like the disfunctional family I never had.



Hmm, would I have voted for Bush again? I think the answer is No. I dont know if Kerry would have been better or worse, but I would be willing to gamble he might be better.

EarnedStripes44
10-30-2008, 08:41 AM
so what is the boy in the class that is muslim supposed to do when the whole class is supposed to prey??

Bush's wallstreet bailout plan was as socialized as they come, so it seems that the republicans were the first to buy it.

As socialized as they come........

+ he helps secure those multi-million dollar bonuses for the corporate masters of the universe

EarnedStripes44
10-30-2008, 08:41 AM
happy devils night everybody

RIJIMMY
10-30-2008, 08:48 AM
As socialized as they come........

+ he helps secure those multi-million dollar bonuses for the corporate masters of the universe

I struggle with the rationalization of this one,,,,I mean it was supported by both house and senate and by both candidates.
Why does it get labeled the "Bush" bailout?

fishbones
10-30-2008, 09:23 AM
I struggle with the rationalization of this one,,,,I mean it was supported by both house and senate and by both candidates.
Why does it get labeled the "Bush" bailout?

It's the "Bush" bailout because he sat down and wrote up the entire proposal himself, without any help. He's also responsible for the suspension of game 5 of the World Series and the extinction of the Dodo bird.

I understand Bush being blamed for a lot of what has gone wrong in this country over the last 4 years because he has been a failure as a President and a leader. But to blame him for the economy or the bailout package shows how little people know about what's going on in government.

The economy was largely good while the Republicans controlled Congress (look at consecutive quarters of economic growth) and it has really suffered in the last 1 1/2 years since Congress has been Democrat controlled. Coincidence? Maybe. But, the horrible bills that made it possible for people who in no way could afford home ownership to get mortgages, were Democrat written and approved by Democrat votes in Congress.

The Dad Fisherman
10-30-2008, 09:39 AM
Why does it get labeled the "Bush" bailout?

Because his Friggin Signature is on it....


I know its probably in Crayon.....but its there

EarnedStripes44
10-30-2008, 10:21 AM
I struggle with the rationalization of this one,,,,I mean it was supported by both house and senate and by both candidates.
Why does it get labeled the "Bush" bailout?

because Wolfson, Bush's treasury secretary, is the architect all of this and he is "doling out the bread" to banks that got so big that when they fail, they bring securities industry with them.

The fed, with Bernanke at the helm, who is sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place but is probably the smartest bureaucrat in washington, does not need congress to act and he is has been pumping billions of capital into AIG, Bear Stearns and others. Hopefully that clears things up for you.

EarnedStripes44
10-30-2008, 10:41 AM
It's the "Bush" bailout because he sat down and wrote up the entire proposal himself, without any help. He's also responsible for the suspension of game 5 of the World Series and the extinction of the Dodo bird.

I understand Bush being blamed for a lot of what has gone wrong in this country over the last 4 years because he has been a failure as a President and a leader. But to blame him for the economy or the bailout package shows how little people know about what's going on in government.

The economy was largely good while the Republicans controlled Congress (look at consecutive quarters of economic growth) and it has really suffered in the last 1 1/2 years since Congress has been Democrat controlled. Coincidence? Maybe. But, the horrible bills that made it possible for people who in no way could afford home ownership to get mortgages, were Democrat written and approved by Democrat votes in Congress.

The republicans pushed for the deregulation of it all and democrats wanted to help there constituents. Almost a perfect storm of party interests. After decades of deregulartion debt became an asset and under the new rules of doing things the economy grew like a house of cards. What would you expect when you can forecast profit. But to lay blame on the shoulders of democrats does not do the argument much justice. Both parties are complicit; end of story. And sure lets blame the little people who could not afford this or that because when the octopus pulling the strings tries to escape it pisses ink. Anyway, if anything is clear, surveillance in the interest of protecting investors from surging losses should not be left to the will of financial institutions. Its called a mixed economy for a reason. So lets come full circle: deregulation, deregulation, deregulation...

EarnedStripes44
10-30-2008, 10:54 AM
By the way, Republicans controlled both Controlled both houses of congress from 1995 to 2006. In the 107th session there were 50 (d) senators and 50 (r) senators. Guess who was the tie breaking vote, none other than the great #^&#^&#^&#^& Cheney.

Oftentimes kinks in the economy take years to iron out, I see no reason to believe socio-economic ramifacations from republican-controlled congressional legislation are any different. I could be wrong though it could just be a coincidence.

EarnedStripes44
10-30-2008, 10:55 AM
sorry about the grammatical errors, this political stuff really rocks my socks.

RIJIMMY
10-30-2008, 11:20 AM
But EVERYONE supported it, why isnt it everyone's plan?

Im not trying to be funny here, isnt that the Obama way? Arent we supposed to be about uniting? It should be OUR plan, right? Dems AND Repubs passed it. Or, are you expect Obama to change everything?

The Dad Fisherman
10-30-2008, 11:41 AM
If the Ship Sinks its the Captains Fault.....Thats the way it is in the military, and he IS the commander in Chief.

EarnedStripes44
10-30-2008, 11:52 AM
Jim if it makes you feel better we can just call it the Wolfson Bailout. He's crafted it and brought the plane in for a landing. Elected officials are just that, the vast majority senators and congressmen/women probably know as much about the economy as you and I. Wolfson and Bernanke are the guys in charge here. They are shepharding a socialist policy of unprecendented proportion.

fishbones
10-30-2008, 11:57 AM
By the way, Republicans controlled both Controlled both houses of congress from 1995 to 2006. In the 107th session there were 50 (d) senators and 50 (r) senators. Guess who was the tie breaking vote, none other than the great #^&#^&#^&#^& Cheney.

Oftentimes kinks in the economy take years to iron out, I see no reason to believe socio-economic ramifacations from republican-controlled congressional legislation are any different. I could be wrong though it could just be a coincidence.

You make a great point ES44. The economy was pretty darn good from 95 to 06'. Anyone who wants to do a little digging can find facts to support their argument as to whether it's the Dems or Repubs fault for the economy tanking. The economy got better under Clinton and continued to get better under Bush (with a Republican Congress). Now, it's in the hopper and will be for the foreseeable future. If Obama's elected and the economy isn't out of the crapper while he's in office, is it his fault? Not unless it get's worse due to poor fiscal planning or passing of legislation like some of the recent bills.

The point that I've made previously is that some of the worst damage to this countries economy is a direct result of the mortgage industry being strong-armed into giving mortgages out to people who they knew couldn't afford them. Then, follows the chain reaction as people start defaulting on loans, losing jobs, etc... Christopher Dodd and Barney Frank can be blamed for this. Is this the sole reason for the sucky economy? Not at all, but a lot of people would be in better shape financially if these loans weren't given out in the first place.

EarnedStripes44
10-30-2008, 01:21 PM
My whole point about congressional control from 1995-2006 is that we reeling in the effects of deregulation from the those years now. Actually from the last 25 years. Clinton was the greatest republican president in the last 100 years and Greenspans served as the chairman of the fed under his administration but I dont blame either party, I blame deregulation, it just so happens that this school of thought has been embraced by most in the republican party and some in democratic party. But special emphasis is necessary on those years 2001 thru 2006, oil companies and war profiteers not withstanding, our economy turned to paper. Now its wet and red.

Now indulge me for a moment, for the sake of argument, lets just say s**** rolls down hill. Maybe you dont agree, and prefer highlighting irresponsible borrowers as a significant contributing cause to this mess, you'd be right I suppose, but we do lock up drug dealers for years on end, not the users. So what about the irresponsible lenders, they made a lot of money, lots of bonuses off incredible bubbles in home prices. "Speculative" bubbles in homeprices that outstripped the pace of real purchasing power for working people who secured inflated loans.

So what about Greenspan, are his inherent philosophical flaws about corporate self-regulation of derivatives backseated by some green sign in South Atlanta that says WE FINANCE.....BAD CREDIT, NO CEDIT, 0 DOWN. So lets continue to blame the folks waiting in line to get their fix of the china bubbling in the dealers spoon.

Who put the rules in place Bones?

Now I'll give you this, Liberals can think up some brilliant headf****. However, let us not neglect the parisitic self interest and greed that hitchiked its way onto well intentioned policy that often happens as a result of a collision of interests. This is what has turned a good policy proposal bad. Self interest is, to varying extents, an essential part of the human condition and it should be held in check where necessary. Is that not a cornerstone of conservatism, keeping self interest in check and under control. The irony for me here, is that conservatism, dating back to Thomas Hobbes, insists on checking people with prisons, police, illegal wiretaps, etc, etc but they dont want to check corporations which enjoy the same citizenship rights as the people they pursue to control. I don't know dude, I just don't know...

Bones, you should include Phil Gram in that sentence with Barney Frank.

fishbones
10-30-2008, 02:39 PM
Now indulge me for a moment, for the sake of argument, lets just say s**** rolls down hill. Maybe you dont agree, and prefer highlighting irresponsible borrowers as a significant contributing cause to this mess, you'd be right I suppose, but we do lock up drug dealers for years on end, not the users. So what about the irresponsible lenders, they made a lot of money, lots of bonuses off incredible bubbles in home prices. "Speculative" bubbles in homeprices that outstripped the pace of real purchasing power for working people who secured inflated loans.


I like your analogy of the drug dealers/users. It does fit this discussion to a point. Would you rather see drug users put behind bars and then the dealers would have noone to sell to? Or do you try to put the dealers away so the users can't get their drugs? Realistically, you can't do either to the point that it's going to end the drug problem in this country.

Same goes for loan companies. Blame the loan companies or blame the borrowers. It doesn't matter because in the long run they both are screwed. People lose their homes and companies go bankrupt. I do blame the big mortgage companies for preying on uneducated or unqualified loan applicants. Now, they are reaping what they sow. But, just like drug dealers, when one goes away, another will pop up to take it's place sooner oor later. Hopefully this crisis has at least made people more aware of their own financial state.

My point earlier was just that as much as everyone would like to blame the Republicans for everything that ails this country, the Democrats are equally to blame.

JohnnyD
10-30-2008, 04:26 PM
The economy was largely good while the Republicans controlled Congress (look at consecutive quarters of economic growth) and it has really suffered in the last 1 1/2 years since Congress has been Democrat controlled. Coincidence? Maybe. But, the horrible bills that made it possible for people who in no way could afford home ownership to get mortgages, were Democrat written and approved by Democrat votes in Congress.

1 1/2 years is not nearly enough time for the effects of a Democratically controlled congress to come to light. Our current situation has largely been developed through policies enacted 6-8 years ago. Many economists expect any policy changes to take at least 4 years before being able to make an educated judgment on the performance effects of those policies.

Actually, "the horrible bills that made it possible for people who in no way could afford home ownership" were written and approved by the Republican Congress 4 years ago. The Republicans pushed forth massive de-regulation bills that sowed *some* of the seeds of the crisis we face today. On the other hand, the Democrats didn't do anything to rectify the bad policy as was promised.

JoeP
10-30-2008, 06:55 PM
The issue isn't and should never be forcing kids in public schools to pray, the issue is banning some kids' ability to pray if they want. That is crazy. It should be and is voluntary so why should it be banned altogether. What's next, banning the Pledge of Allegiance because some kids are offended by our Nation (although some moonbats are trying)...

And, as said above, it was not the "Bush Plan" - it was Bush's and the Congress' plan. However I am not happy with it but it was obviously an extreme situation...

That one-time emergency bailout is a far cry from Obama's wideranging socialistic approach to running our democracy. He is Marxist. :heybaby:


so what is the boy in the class that is muslim supposed to do when the whole class is supposed to prey??

Bush's wallstreet bailout plan was as socialized as they come, so it seems that the republicans were the first to buy it.

Joe
10-30-2008, 08:38 PM
Pray for people who are sick and can't buy healthcare with pre-existing conditions and are losing everything they've worked for.
We should all pray, because we're all just a layoff and a sick kid or wife from being one of them.

slapshot
10-31-2008, 06:33 AM
so what is the boy in the class that is muslim supposed to do when the whole class is supposed to prey??


Prey? Prey on who? The muslim boy? democrats can't even spell pray, or is this supposed to be a joke?

Nebe
10-31-2008, 07:38 AM
That my friend is what you call a play on words. Something a republican may have trouble finding humor in :hihi:

RIROCKHOUND
10-31-2008, 07:40 AM
The issue isn't and should never be forcing kids in public schools to pray, the issue is banning some kids' ability to pray if they want.

Joe;

You and I can agree here.
However, it should be the kid praying alone on his time, not in a mandated moment of silence or something where the 'non-believers' :rolleyes: have to stand there awkwardly.... If the allow that, would they allow a Muslim child to kneel and pray to mecca? or a member of the church of Satan (They just had a reverend from there on HJY, so it is fresh in my head) a chance to pray as well?

A kid who wants to say Grace to himself or with his friends at lunch? I could care less and the school shouldn't. But A school should also not mandate a 'prayer time' otherwise, send em to catholic school:wave: (You have boys, nothing to worry about sending them to school in that uniform :D:D:D)

JH Beers
10-31-2008, 07:52 AM
Muslims, if devout, are asked to pray 5 times a day and the process takes 5-10 minutes each time.

Before school, during lunch break, mid-afternoon, evening, night.

So, if requested, let the kid take 5 minutes mid-afternoon for the sake of satisfying his religious beliefs. I see no problem with Muslim prayer being allowed in schools any more than any other sort of prayer, and, personally? I'm agnostic/secular if not atheistic.

RIROCKHOUND
10-31-2008, 07:57 AM
I'm agnostic/secular if not atheistic.

As am I JHB.
The problem is schools are not logical.
they tend to be reactionary...

RIJIMMY
10-31-2008, 07:59 AM
Most of my praying in school was that I would pass a test I didnt study for or that I'd get lucky after school with my girlfriend, or that I could bum a ride to the Judas Priest concert or that my parents wouldnt find the seeds I left on the dashboard of my car, or that the condom wouldnt break......and I went to Catholic school....

The Dad Fisherman
10-31-2008, 08:04 AM
Anybody else singing the Zappa song Catholic Girls in their head right now....:hee:

Nebe
10-31-2008, 08:16 AM
hey she gave me VD!:conf::rotf3::rotf3::rotf3:

JH Beers
10-31-2008, 08:36 AM
I'd send my kids to a catholic school if it was taught by Judas Priest.