You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.

You cannot strengthen the weak by bringing down the strong.

You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.

You cannot further brotherhood of man by encouraging class hatred.

You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.

You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than you earn.

You cannot build character and courage by taking away man's initiative and independence.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.


Abraham Lincoln's creed
___________________

Lincoln was considered a radical liberal at the time and not too popular in what we now call the red states.

Joe, i can see how he would be called a radical liberal because of his stance at the time on the slave issue, but not on his stance on the other issues listed in his creed.

If the creed is radical liberal, i'm moving to the Left coast. :)

It reads better than the reality and the crushing poverty of the time. Pre-middle class, pre-minimum wage, pre-child labor laws. People at that time believed that there was an inverse relationship with respect to wealth between workers and employers. One person has to enslave another, or their own prosperity would falter - some people still believe it.

iffin' that's the liberal creed.......i'm a liberal!.....and so are a lot of others who don't it...yet.

Thanks for the history lesson guys. Ya keep me learnin. :hihi:

Gotta say though, liberal, moderate or conservative, i'll support anyone who runs on his creed as their platform any day.

Glad when tomrrow is over, though i'll miss this modern day jousting pit forum.:hihi:

Hope some of you guys got your tickets early for the Chicago million man Obama party.:D

If he loses there will be mass violence. Count on it.

If he loses there will be mass violence. Count on it.

Certainly the million disappointed party goers.

Lincoln wasn't the benevolent emancipator we honor him as today. His first and foremost goal was to preserve the Union, and one of his famous quotes went something like, "if I could preserve the Union without freeing a single slave, I would". The Emancipation Proclamation was issued more to punish the Confederacy than help the slaves.

Lincoln was also a bigot if not an outright racist privately. His hope was that most of the slaves would return to Africa after the war. He had very mixed feelings on whether blacks could ever assimilate into society, and together with General McClelland, was vehemently opposed to using black troops in combat. His opinion of their fighting attributes was not very high, to say the least.

abe also slept with men.

If he loses there will be mass violence. Count on it.

A workmate of mine said this very same thing yesterday, it was inbetween several other comments I found a bit racist.

-spence

A workmate of mine said this very same thing yesterday, it was inbetween several other comments I found a bit racist.

-spence

:rotf2::rotf2::rotf2::rotf2::rotf2::rotf2::rotf2:: rotf2:

If he loses there will be mass violence. Count on it.

Wanna bet on it?

that is a true prediction

just look at these Jokers that were saying "and this is for Obama" when they came across McCaine signs...
on the guys lawn....

A workmate of mine said this very same thing yesterday, it was inbetween several other comments I found a bit racist.

-spence

That's unfortunate. Did you let him know the other comments hurt your feelings?

And if McCain loses I'm sure it will be all Puppies and Daiseys....especially in those socially progressive states down south. :rolleyes:

Sad, but no matter who wins we will see racism rear its ugly head somewhere.

And if McCain loses I'm sure it will be all Puppies and Daiseys....especially in those socially progressive states down south. :rolleyes:

Sad, but no matter who wins we will see racism rear its ugly head somewhere.

So true TDF.

I hate to say this, but I have a feeling something nasty is going happen tonight, no matter who wins. Probably random events here and there and I would not be surprised if the media has been told to not report it until tomorrow, so that it does not fuel anything..

I hope i am wrong

I hate to say this, but I have a feeling something nasty is going happen tonight, no matter who wins. Probably random events here and there and I would not be surprised if the media has been told to not report it until tomorrow, so that it does not fuel anything..

I hope i am wrong


A workmate of mine said this very same thing yesterday, it was inbetween several other comments I found a bit racist.

-spence

:hihi:

Seriously, he was on a rant. I couldn't believe what he was saying!

-spence

NO MATTER WHO WINS Bronko....someone's gonna be pissed. :hs:

Those people exist. I was actually floored recently by the comments of a pretty prominent politician. At a political function, with the booze flowing freely.

NO MATTER WHO WINS Bronko....someone's gonna be pissed. :hs:

True. Anger on both sides.

I agree with everything Justplugit said. I happen to make $800,000 a year and Under the Obama tax the hell out of me (the rich) plan- when the tax rate of over $357,000 in income goes back up to the Clinton rates, I am going to have to pay $20, 378 more in taxes on my $800,000. I am going to be destroyed. I am upset to know that alot of my fellow surfcasters on this site also make hundreds of thousand dollars a year and are going to be destroyed by higher taxes.

I believe poor people should get off their asses and work. I can't believe that according to the census bureau in 2007 37,500,000 people in the US live in poverty. I think that we should just wait until they wake up and start working harder. Yeah- that theory has not worked for the last 40 years, but lets not try anything new. Lets air drop pamplets in bad neigborhoods that tell the lazy good for nothings to gets some skills and pull themselves up by their bootstraps. I don't think the poverty and hunger in the US is a national embarassment.

I am certainly not interested in any of my tax dollars going to pay hard working dedicated employees of social service non-profit agencies like Also-Cornerstone in New Haven that provides housing for persons suffering from mental illness and addictions of which I served on the Board of Directors for 20 years before I got rich and became a Republican. Those social service agencies don't do any good I understand. They don't help build character and courage by helping people help themselves. I don't want to strenghten the poor by making myself weak. That just a bunch of liberal junk.

I certainly want the US to remain the only industrialized country without formal national health care. I like the current national health care system which is called emergency rooms that I pay for in state and federal tax dollars.


I don't think Lincoln would try some things to help people help themslves.

Nice uninformed rant.
reminds me of the immigration debate. no matter how many times you say "illegal" immigrants its get thrown back to you that you're against immigrants.
NO ONE is against helping those in need. NO ONE, period.
There is no, none, zip, nada in the US Constitution that gives the government the right to redistribute the wealth. If you like the health care in other countries, help your self and go there. I'd take our current health system over any country, any day.

You guys are so brainwashed its funny. Did you see Obama's latest commerical wher ehe says all the things he will change? Did you hear the cash register ding after every item? He will spend, spend spend.
My wife and I are hard working and make decent money, what will I see from the government? NOTHING!

you guys should rent the movie - Idiocracy
Scary stuff and thats where we are headed thanks to many of the beliefs you have.

How does 1 rant turn into "You Guys"?

can you try and make a statement without lumping everybody together....

yuze guyz votin for de Bama

I suggest you read Mien Kamph jim.

I agree with everything Justplugit said. I happen to make $800,000 a year and Under the Obama tax the hell out of me (the rich) plan- when the tax rate of over $357,000 in income goes back up to the Clinton rates, I am going to have to pay $20, 378 more in taxes on my $800,000. I am going to be destroyed.

http://www.wikihow.com/Talk-to-Your-Children-About-a-Financial-Crisis

I agree with everything Justplugit said. I happen to make $800,000 a year and Under the Obama tax the hell out of me (the rich) plan- when the tax rate of over $357,000 in income goes back up to the Clinton rates, I am going to have to pay $20, 378 more in taxes on my $800,000. I am going to be destroyed. I am upset to know that alot of my fellow surfcasters on this site also make hundreds of thousand dollars a year and are going to be destroyed by higher taxes.

If you're really making that much and don't know how to duck the system then its your own fault.

And also, at that kind of income, if thats going to 'destroy' you, you're not living within your means.

Buck up little guy.

pretty sure he was trying to be sarcastic likwid

God I hope so because he owes me a new keyboard for that post.

http://www.wikihow.com/Talk-to-Your-Children-About-a-Financial-Crisis

Thanks for the article Nebe. I just wish I had seen it before I told my son that due to the current state of the economy, he would have to sell off all of his Thomas the Tank Engine toys and videos so I could buy vodka and lottery tickets. The poor kid is now stuck playing with rocks and cigarette butts.

Glad I could help. I wish you and your son the best of luck.

[QUOTE=RIJIMMY;
NO ONE is against helping those in need. NO ONE, period.
QUOTE]

This is it- Jim - This is the question that we all must face- Who is in need for help????

We both believe that if someone is disabled or mentally ill they should get some help.

I also believe that some people that have been screwed up by no family life should get services from social service organizations to teach them how to be parents and break the cycle. You and I and Bill Cosby would agree that only a solid family life and responsible influence will ever solve the problem.

In my view, the tax money I am talking about does not get redistributed to the "client". it goes to dedicated social workers who have masters degrees in social work and some of them are making $32,000 and in CT they have not had a raise in 24 months because the CT Department of mental health and addiction services had no money from the Legislature and could not provide a salary cost of living increase.

So I think some of these people in poverty need help- not money but services. I have seen it work.

.

Abe had a lot to say

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me, and causes me to tremble for the safety of our country. Corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people, until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the republic is destroyed. The Government should create, issue, and circulate all the currency, and credits needed to satisfy the spending power of the Government, and the buying power of consumers. By the adoption of these principals, the taxpayers will be saving immense sums of interest. Money will cease to be master, and become the servant of humanity." - Abraham Lincoln


also Jackson (who many hated)

"If Congress has the right under the Constitution to issue paper money, it was given them to use themselves, not to be delegated to individuals or corporations." - Andrew Jackson


whatever we do, be sure we stay informed and don't allow congress to take away any more liberties or rights like they have after 9/11

[QUOTE=RIJIMMY;
NO ONE is against helping those in need. NO ONE, period.
QUOTE]



So I think some of these people in poverty need help- not money but services. I have seen it work.

.

I agree 100%.

While no expert, the volunteer work i've done with the homeless, Habitat and mentoring, i have come to believe that while some people need temporary help when between jobs and hard times, there is a Hugh need for psych help for mental and drug problems for many.
Drugs have been the biggest plague on our society.

I have come to believe that if people would just take care of their own families , no matter what, we wouldn't have %80 of the problems we have thrust on us.
Just mho.