One of the other guys on here mentioned to me on the phone that he thinks its not as bad out there as folks are making it out to be?? (Which makes sense if all is good at home). I replied it is just as bad if not worse?? So I am curious.....how bad is it at your house?? Are you all working?? Are things tight?? Have you had to cut out alot of things to save money??? My feeling is its gonna get alot worse....before it gets any better!

Things are tight here! I am thankfully starting a new job working in the lumber dept. at Lowes the end of the month! That will help....plugs don't pay the bills here thats for sure! My wife has a great job and we are thankful for that! To help with the holidays she has taken a seasonal part time job at Crate and Barrel! (She loves that store) A mortgage, 2 car payments, my child support and all the other expenses......man its tight! We have cut cable somewhat! At the supermarket the other day I found a great way to save some money! They were selling cake/brownie mix for $1.00 each.....so I bought a bunch! Figure why buy all the pre-made crap that costs an arm and a leg when for $1.00, a couple eggs, some water and veg oil we can bake a cake that will last a few days or a bunch of brownies!!! Figure out how much a package of Chips Ahoy, Oreos, or Entenmans cake costs for a week???? Its silly when you think about it! Remember your Mom would always be baking when you were a kid?? Anyway.....its a killer out there so any way we can save a buck we are!

I think it depends on who you are. If I was 65 and relying on investmment return in the market I would say that it is pretty bad.

Our family is only buying gifts this Christmas for the children.

My fear is the credit card defaults next, as more people lose their jobs.

As Luds stated, if you are living off of your retirement savings, you are the ones most affected.
I remember a radio money show host saying that when you are young, you want to be investing for "growth", and when you are nearing retirement, you want your investments leaning towards "returns"
Growth = stock price goes up (or down, as it may be) so that your "shares" are worth more.
"Return" = your shares don't fluctuate much (or at all in mutual funds) so you are looking at dividends and cap gains.

everyone receiving a distribution from their retirement plan is getting whacked because they HAVE to take the money or pay a penalty.

I am not hurting right now, but fortunately I live at home with an elderly parent, and the house is paid off. We are not hurting, and are in the process of finishing the basement. It's amazing what a little insulation does to warm up a room.
What I believe will happen will be like Bigfish was saying.
More people will "make it at home" instead of just paying out of pocket. I prefer any "homemade" creation because it shows that the creator cared enough about the quality of the goods (as well as their skills) and it saves $$ in the long run.

Funny you mention that Dave! We got notification from Amex freezing our limit at $10,000.00 less than what we had approval for???? I am guessing they are either looking out for themselves....which is one theory.....or they were trying to screw us into a higher rate of interest because they froze it at $100.00 more than we owe them which means if we go over the limit our interest rate goes through the roof??? Think this was intentional??? I do!!!

Hey! If you build a better brownie.....sell it!:btu:

Larry, be very wary of the CC people - believe me they are not your friends and they'll put ya in a financial death spiral quicker than you know. If ya can't pay cash, ya can't afford it.

Just duck and cover - it's gonna wash over us but it's gonna take longer than everyone expects and the worst is yet to come.

Sounds like you and the Mrs are doing all the right things - extra jobs, cutting back on non-essentials, hopefully watching personal expenses etc.

Hey did I mention -

GET RID OF THE CREDIT CARD DEBT ASAP

:smash::smash::smash::smash::smash::smash::smash:

There isn't one single thing you can do that is more important to the financial future of you and your bride. Trust me, I'm an old fart and I've been there - if you can do that alone it's gonna make a big difference in what you'll be able to do once this crap is over...

Treat that AmEx card in your pocket like a rattler - don't touch it. If you can't pay cash, don't buy it. Period.

Sorry, Larr, and yeah, I am lecturing - but it's just tough love, brother :uhuh:

Good luck - you and your bride just keep doing the right thing - sounds like you guys are already on the right track :kewl:

Already working on it Chuck...thanks!:kewl: Paying it off with all my brownie money!;)

Im a self employed artist.... need I say more? :rollem:

Our family is only buying gifts this Christmas for the children.

My fear is the credit card defaults next, as more people lose their jobs.
same here. my entire family had a talk and everyone agreed- no presents for the adults just grandchildren. my aunts and uncles arent wealthy, but they certainly arent poor. things are tight and only going to get worse. how much worse is the question.

You don't look starving though:wavey::wavey:

I have to give credit to my wife; while I call her a money Nazi, her frugalness pays off... we live cheap most of the time, carry no credit card debt we do not pay off at the end of the month (Gas card w/ rebates is most of that expense)

Of course working 1/2 time in academia and going to grad school half time makes me semi-recession proof; although if you didn't make much money before the recession, you don't feel that much different!

I am sure here at my house we will weather the storm. We are frugal people and do not carry much debt. As far as my buisness, thing are not as busy as I'd like, but I have managed to squirrel away more nuts than previous winters. If things do get worse...then we will do what it takes to survive...I try not to listen to the media and work on looking at the glass as being half full...

Pretty steady here. Thank god for a workaholic wife. I am very frugal,cheap, as she would say but you need at least one of those in your household to keep on course. Luckily no credit card debt here. Like my mom always said there is always someone worse off than you so count your blessings.

Keep this in mind:
Credit card companies are ALLOWED to use ANY OTHER bill you pay late as a reason to up your interest rate. So if you are late on your electric, phone, car or insurance payment they equate that as to being late on your credit card payment regardless of whether you have ever had a late card payment or not!
With the de-regulation of the credit industry we are pretty much screwed. If the credit card industry ever jumps on the "government bail-out bus", I would tell them to go pound sand!

How do credit cards and utility bills/car payments have anything to do with one another??

one day at a time

How do credit cards and utility bills/car payments have anything to do with one another??

I any world EXCEPT the credit world, they don't, but the credit card industry created this rule that allows them to use ANY OTHER bill that is paid late as reason to jack up interest rates.
Their theory is that if you're late on a car payment, or gas bill, or phone bill then you'll be late on a credit card bill.

I believe it's something like "mutually assumed risk", so that there is the "likelihood" that you "might" be late on a credit card bill "at some point" and that (to them) means the same as "you are NOW late"!

It's assinine, but when they were de-regulated it basically gave them "carte blanche" to do whatever they wanted to us.

With all due respect I do not think that is the case. Can anyone else back that up??

Simply call your credit card company and ask them why your interest rate is what it is.
(As for the rates, this has been going on for a few years now, but they didn't announce it as a "breaking story", they sent out yet another insert with the monthly bill explaining (in legalise) the new process.)

I'll be forced to make my own copies of Salties kits.

the level of debt, is a factor, in your credit rating, and effects the interest rate as well.

Karl nailed it.
You can get a free credit check every year on the web where you are rated by points as to your credit worthiness. They take into account all your timely or untimely payments on debt.

The credit card companies have done everything possible to get younger people
into their grasp. The average credit card debt is something like $15,000-$20,000.

Even when you pay your card in full each month, which can be a good thing as some cards offer 5% on gas, groceries and drugstores, watch the due date as they will change it from time to time and unless you see it and pay it on time they love hitting you with the late fee.

Most important thing anyone who has credit debt is pay it down ASAP, the interest rates are outrageous. Then back to economics 101, don't buy anything unless you can pay for it in cash.

Last weekend we collected food donations for the Cub Scouts. Let me say between last year and this year it was a huge difference.
Not many people gave food this year. I was disappointed in my fellow townsfolk.

I'll be interested to see what happens in Mansfield on Saturday, Last year we prepared holiday meals, with turkeys for over 1500 familes. Filled almost 2/3 of the St Mary's gym floor with baskets of goods to be delivered the following Wednesday.

I'm stealing more stuff than normal.

...
Even when you pay your card in full each month, which can be a good thing as some cards offer 5% on gas, groceries and drugstores, watch the due date as they will change it from time to time and unless you see it and pay it on time they love hitting you with the late fee.

Most important thing anyone who has credit debt is pay it down ASAP, the interest rates are outrageous. Then back to economics 101, don't buy anything unless you can pay for it in cash.

They have a sneaky habit of ALWAYS making the due date on weekends. If you read their "fine print" regarding payment processing, you see that if your payment is received after a certain time of a Friday, they won't process it until Monday.
Note - that time is ususally in the early afternoon!

Also note that paying the balance down will decrease your monthly payment, but the ONLY way to have your rate decreased would be to threaten to close your account.
They will bump up your rate, even if it's their fault, but aren't as quick to drop the rate unless YOU take action.
Credit card companies, as a whole, SUCK!

With all due respect I do not think that is the case. Can anyone else back that up??

It depends on your user agreement. When they change it, they send you a notice of change, and most folks just throw it in the garbage without reading it.

It's also not every company that does it.

All of our credit cards are in my name, and all of the utilities are in the wife's name. The only other thing in my name is the mortgage, and that gets paid on time.

If you pay your credit card bill on time and haven't been late (I don't know how many months/years back they give you as a "grace period") and your credit card interest rate is 14% or higher, then they are either doing it or are a real lousy company.

Of course there's the option of transferring your balance to another card with a low transfer balance rate. If they check any other bill that you pay, and you are late, than your rate will typically jump to around 24%.

I've been OVERpaying my card bills (balances are $20-30 per month)
so that when I get my bill, I see "No payment required" AND they have to pay interest for any positive balance that they carry to next month.
(Keep in mind that I only overpay by paying $100.00, so I'm not giving them a lot to hold onto.)

Ijust left my barber in Hanson. He said his last four customers all got laid off today. One was a carpenter, and the others were in the trades but he didn't say where.

Already working on it Chuck...thanks!:kewl: Paying it off with all my brownie money!;)

Attaboy, BF - I knew you was a smart guy all along :)

Our business has still been decent, but the next few quarters will prove very interesting as more companies tighten the belt. As bad as the NE economy might be, it is worse in other areas.

Personally it hasn't hit us much and I'm hoping it stays that way.

-spence

The other shoe hasn't hit bottom yet.... Automakers are jumping on the bailout wagon, and could be followed by the airlines. If they're giving out money...what industry wouldn't get in line, besides they oil refiners...
Just need to refocus where your dollar are going to be spent.
And not to get political, but the impending employer/cardcheck/union legislation battle looming on the horizon will undoubtedly prolong any recovery.
I don't see getting a feel good scenario in place for 24 months.

Im a self employed artist.... need I say more? :rollem:
Now you understand when your folks said you should be a Doctor!
(sorry)

My Company is doing well, pretty busy, and though we might not hire someone like originally intended, we're doing OK. That said, one coworkers husband was given notice.

My wife's place :err::err:

Luckily my job is secure and allows my wife to stay home with our two boys. Although not recession proof, we are privately held and very careful with finances which is a good thing. Some existing and potential customers may be affected by a lack of credit but we feel these are delays vs outright denials.

On the home front, we usually live the same year in and year out. As someone else stated, gifts for children only this year for Christmas.

For those with existing CC debt/high interest rates, call the companies and insist on a lower rate. I did this a couple years ago and was granted a lower rate by 5%. Makes a huge difference when carrying a balance.

I know a few close friends very recently have done this and were granted lower rates also. If the front line operator denies, have them send you to where you can cancel the card outright (while mumbling to yourself holidays are approaching, etc.). They'll connect you to management and work out a lower rate as long as you keep the card active.

If you have credit cards you are not using, cancel them, as they also fall into play in your credit rating, seen as monies you could still tap.

It would be the best thing for everyone if we got back to the old adage-
-pay yourself first- by taking %10 out of your pay for saving,
wether it be 401-k, IRA or savings account before you get it in your hands.

I have heard setting your thermostat 1 or2 degrees lower can lower your heating bill upto 3%.

Akami - the edge of the internet and the information highway caching king laid of 7 pct of their workforce worldwide today.

It's like the entire world has hit a speed bump

The other shoe hasn't hit bottom yet.... Automakers are jumping on the bailout wagon, and could be followed by the airlines. If they're giving out money...what industry wouldn't get in line, besides they oil refiners...


Ya, if the so called highly educated Havad grad ,etc.,company managers and politicians are so smart ,how come this country is in the fix it's in?

IMHO, lack of common sense and greed.

Ya, if the so called highly educated Havad grad ,etc.,company managers and politicians are so smart ,how come this country is in the fix it's in?

IMHO, lack of common sense and greed.

Absolutely, add in all the feel good by "helping" other people out irresponsibly (of course, redistributing other people's dough to do it) and we have a perfect storm of crappola...

Plenty of blame to go around folks, from the greedy to politicians to the criminal to the people with their hands out all the time. It doesn't help either that we as a nation have became spend-happy.

We'll get through it because we are Americans and we always fight adversary and somehow prevail but how much will we learn from it?

Its not that bad if you can still afford $75 fishing lures

I am sorry to read about the issues everyone is having. I hope that we all walk away having learned a few lessons. First do not trust the government at any level to have the best interests of everyday Americans. All of them are in politics for financial gain and personal interests. Stay on top of what is happening at the national, state and local levels. Hold the politicians accountable and for God's sake vote, vote in every election. Second credit cards are evil. Make sure your kids know that, make sure you know that. They are the modern equalivant of the shylock or the loan shark. Stay away from easy credit at all levels. If you can't afford without the credit card, then you can't afford it period. Third, save some money. Open up a savings account and put a little in every week. You would be surprised how fast $200 a month can equal $20,000 in the bank. Fourth do not buy a bigger house than you can swing. Don't forget bigger house, bigger mortgage, higher taxes, higher upkeep, higher electric bill, higher heating bill. Fifth as Clammer use to say appreciate what you have. Are you healthy, is your wife, your kids. Yes, than you are doing fine. We will survive this downturn and come out of it a lot wiser, maybe more responsible with our money and community. Maybe the kids will learn something too. So let’s stay on the politicians at all levels, save our money, pay our credit cards off and never let this happen again. This is the greatest country in the world and we will bounce back, we always do. Let’s vow never to let the greedy bastards do this to us again.

We'll get through it because we are Americans and we always fight adversary and somehow prevail but how much will we learn from it?
a little off topic but....:read:

i just watched the hurricane of 1938 ....major destruction on the history channel, and was amazed watchin these two guys whacking a roof with a sledgehammer :whackin:...here in new england.... :bl:

but the narrator was saying essentially the same thing.... did we learn anything from that storm....?

Really what we needed to learn was how mother nature can just decide to whip the crap out of us all anytime she wants too... and we have forgotten.

all the construction on the shore line .......
....may be all swept away in one horrific storm...
the perfect storm... like you said..

it's from events that :point: huge that we tend to learn.:read:

my take
think things are bad? you aint seen nothing yet. SAve every dime you can, prepare for months out of work. Sure I sound like a nutso, but as part of my job, I get to hear really, really smart people talk about the economic prospects and I have not heard one single speck of good news. And thats over the next 2 years. Housing prices still need to go down at least another 15%, think of the impact that will have on foreclosures, unemplyment is growing at a monumental rate.
I am suprised at how many people I still see shopping or at restaurants. Thats going to end quickly. The holiday sales will be abysmal, the stock market is going to go even lower.
Can you imagine if there is an international incedent in the middle of all this?
Please, take my advice - BE PREPARED. This may be the great depression you tell your grandkids about some day, no kidding

I think it is pretty bad out there and I don't see it getting better anytime soon. We have too many problems right now. Housing crisis, banking crisis, auto crisis, rising employment rates. Where I work we are going to be about 600,000 short of budgeted sales for Nov and Dec bookings are way down also. Yes I am scared about the future!

my take
think things are bad? you aint seen nothing yet. SAve every dime you can, prepare for months out of work. Sure I sound like a nutso, but as part of my job, I get to hear really, really smart people talk about the economic prospects and I have not heard one single speck of good news. And thats over the next 2 years. Housing prices still need to go down at least another 15%, think of the impact that will have on foreclosures, unemplyment is growing at a monumental rate.
I am suprised at how many people I still see shopping or at restaurants. Thats going to end quickly. The holiday sales will be abysmal, the stock market is going to go even lower.
Can you imagine if there is an international incedent in the middle of all this?
Please, take my advice - BE PREPARED. This may be the great depression you tell your grandkids about some day, no kidding

That's a lot of doom and gloom. I think things will still get much worse but this isn't going to be the Great Depression II.

Besides, if we all stop shopping that will make things worse! :hihi:

Everybodies situation is different. People need to react as appropriate.

-spence

Spence,

housing prices fell 18% and you had a 700 billion bailout. Those housing prices adjusted for inflation are STILL 15-18% above the norm. Can you imagine what will happen when it finally corrects, never mind hits bottom?
Consumers are 72% of the economy, with this growing unemployment and uncertaintly (and my gloomy posts) think of how massive a hit the retail and service sector will take.
What if we get a bad winter, how will towns afford to plow the roads? many local towns are struggling due to decrease in tax and permits.
The list can go on and on, I dont think I am being overly pessimistic.

Jimmy,
Maybe we should just curl up and watch Mayberry RFD reruns on TVLAND

my take
think things are bad? you aint seen nothing yet. SAve every dime you can, prepare for months out of work. Sure I sound like a nutso, but as part of my job, I get to hear really, really smart people talk about the economic prospects and I have not heard one single speck of good news. And thats over the next 2 years. Housing prices still need to go down at least another 15%, think of the impact that will have on foreclosures, unemplyment is growing at a monumental rate.
I am suprised at how many people I still see shopping or at restaurants. Thats going to end quickly. The holiday sales will be abysmal, the stock market is going to go even lower.
Can you imagine if there is an international incedent in the middle of all this?
Please, take my advice - BE PREPARED. This may be the great depression you tell your grandkids about some day, no kidding

:agree:

Dude, I'm with you on this one -

If you do prepare yourself and it doesn't happen, then all you will have done is learn to live WITHIN your means and perhaps you'll also have a little stashed away.

If you don't prepare yourself, home and family for something that may happen down the road, you're not gonna be able to play catch-up on it once the mud has already hit the fan.

Kinda like the folks who refuse to evacuate and decide to stay on barrier islands during a hurricane to party it up. When you see 'em interviewed later, they seem somehow to have seen the light and swear they'll never do it again

Hey, it's up to you to decide - blow it off if you like. It's still a free country :rollem:

amex wants a bailout...citi bank too....:smash:...

fry them.....


citibank and amex can sit on it and rotate
wtf is with this country? we now entertain the thought of bailing out loansharks? wtf :whackin::whackin::doh::smash::fury:

I hope some smarter people get into politics soon and straighten these idiots out
if not, I'm outta here

Amex is now a bank holding company and eligible for bailout funds

ANY Credit Card company that "entertains" the thought of asking for bailout $$ can go straight to hell!
The credit card companies have financially raped the general public for way too long, and if they start crying "Oh,poor me!" to the government, then tough t*tties!

If they are soaking us with high interest rates, and they can't manage their finances, then they surely deserve to go belly up.

And I'll be there to :deadhorse:

I am sorry to read about the issues everyone is having. I hope that we all walk away having learned a few lessons. First do not trust the government at any level to have the best interests of everyday Americans. All of them are in politics for financial gain and personal interests. Stay on top of what is happening at the national, state and local levels. Hold the politicians accountable and for God's sake vote, vote in every election. Second credit cards are evil. Make sure your kids know that, make sure you know that. They are the modern equalivant of the shylock or the loan shark. Stay away from easy credit at all levels. If you can't afford without the credit card, then you can't afford it period. Third, save some money. Open up a savings account and put a little in every week. You would be surprised how fast $200 a month can equal $20,000 in the bank. Fourth do not buy a bigger house than you can swing. Don't forget bigger house, bigger mortgage, higher taxes, higher upkeep, higher electric bill, higher heating bill. Fifth as Clammer use to say appreciate what you have. Are you healthy, is your wife, your kids. Yes, than you are doing fine. We will survive this downturn and come out of it a lot wiser, maybe more responsible with our money and community. Maybe the kids will learn something too. So let’s stay on the politicians at all levels, save our money, pay our credit cards off and never let this happen again. This is the greatest country in the world and we will bounce back, we always do. Let’s vow never to let the greedy bastards do this to us again.

:agree: Problem is, this is the way people should have been living over the past 20 years.

The credit card companies have financially raped the general public for way too long, and if they start crying "Oh,poor me!" to the government, then tough t*tties!

If they are soaking us with high interest rates, and they can't manage their finances, then they surely deserve to go belly up.

And I'll be there to :deadhorse:

I have no sympathy for the credit card companies. They surely don't deserve any bailout, but no one is held at gun point and forced to get credit cards. Anyone who signs up should be aware that there are interest charges and they'll end up paying $12 for the $8 drive through meal that they put on their card. People have to be responsible for their own spending. As others have smartly put it "if you can't afford it, don't buy it." I was told never to use a credit card for things like restaurants, movies, groceries, etc... because you're still paying for it long after it's gone.

market plummets second day in a row.
I'll be out of a job soon.

The pullback for the second straight day Thursday sent the Standard & Poor's 500 index down 6.2 percent to 756.81, below the low of 768.63 seen on Oct. 10, 2002.

Man, if you had a lot of $ right now and can invest heavily, you'd be a rich man in 3-5 yrs.

Your right Jim, but we are at such a pivotal time in history, I am sure there are a lot of people who are not sure where to put their money...

Your right Jim, but we are at such a pivotal time in history, I am sure there are a lot of people who are not sure where to put their money...

According to Hannity and Limbaugh, it's Obama's fault that the rich are afraid to invest...they've already labeled this economic turmoil the "Obama Recession".

-spence

News Flash! This downward spiral was well entrenched before Obama came along!:rollem:

orig. question.....is it that bad? yes I think so and I dont think it will get better anytime soon.

I personally got three months of reduced hours at work (all 200 of us) and the hubby may or may not have a job three months down the road....but no one will say for sure. He did make it through the layoff...but I say there will be more to come. Are things tight....yeah they are! we have eliminated one $400 monthly payment a few months back (ooh that will help! yeah RIGHT...) dont even notice it because of the higher prices at the store. AND we cut a LOT of frills on top of that. SO what gives?

Friends out of jobs, local businesses closing their doors, big businesses closing their doors. Less and less to go around for everyone. the list goes on but Yeah I would say it IS as bad as they say.......

Your right Jim, but we are at such a pivotal time in history, I am sure there are a lot of people who are not sure where to put their money...

In a #10 tomato can in the yard.

orig. question.....is it that bad? yes I think so and I dont think it will get better anytime soon.

I personally got three months of reduced hours at work (all 200 of us) and the hubby may or may not have a job three months down the road....but no one will say for sure. He did make it through the layoff...but I say there will be more to come. Are things tight....yeah they are! we have eliminated one $400 monthly payment a few months back (ooh that will help! yeah RIGHT...) dont even notice it because of the higher prices at the store. AND we cut a LOT of frills on top of that. SO what gives?

Friends out of jobs, local businesses closing their doors, big businesses closing their doors. Less and less to go around for everyone. the list goes on but Yeah I would say it IS as bad as they say.......

Well, at least we can take some comfort in the fact that the top CEO's are still able to live like swine.

In fact, I think it was more than generous us as for working Americans - or those of us who still are employed, anyway - to give them a trillion dollars of our money to be sure that they could continue to do so at our expense.

However, it's not as if they have no compassion for the plight of the American worker. One CEO who asked not to be named has offered this solution to the woes of recently dismissed workers:

"Let them eat cake."

Amex is now a bank holding company and eligible for bailout funds

since when? :devil2: screw them
I guess they know how to work our F'd up system :rollem:
greed greed and more greed :hs:



Larry, I'm not sure how bad it is but I do not have a good feeling about it at all. Construction has dropped off so bad guys are hawking tools, that is the first sign :(
I just hope remodeling continues. Maybe I am lucky my hard work has paid off keeping me busy working for those who still have money to spend - the rich, I just hope it keeps up. I have been finally making some real money and now the economy goes in the crapper:smash:

If you have credit cards you are not using, cancel them, as they also fall into play in your credit rating, seen as monies you could still tap.



I've always read the opposite (on the Internet, so who knows) that closing credit card accounts is bad for your credit score.

Glad things are going good for you Bruce and I hope it continues! Layoff rumors swirling at my wifes place of work.....so we are keeping our fingers crossed here.:hs:

The US economy is 2/3 consumer spending, so every gloom and doom news story makes things a tiny fraction worse by causing people to spend less money. Less money spent hurts businesses, who need to lay people off, who spend less, and the cycle continues.

Just like how every media COMPANY this summer was parading faux experts predicting $7 gas by Christmas, they're now all throwing around the word "depression" when we're not yet even officially in a recession. Bad news sells. We were hearing how bad the economy was when the dow was at 14,000 for Christ's sake.

I'm not saying we're not in a slowdown, and I'm not even saying things aren't worse than they were earlier in the year.

My point is this - the worse you think the economy is, the worse it will get. If people start keeping money in their mattresses, we will be in a depression, and then at least CNN will be reporting the truth.

The US economy IS diverse and fundamentally sound. This is an over-correction and will pass.

The US economy is 2/3 consumer spending, so every gloom and doom news story makes things a tiny fraction worse by causing people to spend less money. Less money spent hurts businesses, who need to lay people off, who spend less, and the cycle continues.

Just like how every media COMPANY this summer was parading faux experts predicting $7 gas by Christmas, they're now all throwing around the word "depression" when we're not yet even officially in a recession. Bad news sells. We were hearing how bad the economy was when the dow was at 14,000 for Christ's sake.

I'm not saying we're not in a slowdown, and I'm not even saying things aren't worse than they were earlier in the year.

My point is this - the worse you think the economy is, the worse it will get. If people start keeping money in their mattresses, we will be in a depression, and then at least CNN will be reporting the truth.

The US economy IS diverse and fundamentally sound. This is an over-correction and will pass.

Bingo, duck falls out of the ceiling, politician sponsored, media-assisted, greed fueled, economic self-fulfilling prophecy...

We found out yesterday that miy wife will not be among the layoffs at her work that were announced yesterday (yet)

The US economy IS diverse and fundamentally sound. This is an over-correction and will pass.
Nothing to see here, move along...

Ok Senator McCain :yak5:

We've gone from a nation that primarily produces to one that primarily consumes and borrows to keep consuming. This isn't fundamentally sound.

-spence

The US economy is 2/3 consumer spending, so every gloom and doom news story makes things a tiny fraction worse by causing people to spend less money. Less money spent hurts businesses, who need to lay people off, who spend less, and the cycle continues.

Just like how every media COMPANY this summer was parading faux experts predicting $7 gas by Christmas, they're now all throwing around the word "depression" when we're not yet even officially in a recession. Bad news sells. We were hearing how bad the economy was when the dow was at 14,000 for Christ's sake.

I'm not saying we're not in a slowdown, and I'm not even saying things aren't worse than they were earlier in the year.

My point is this - the worse you think the economy is, the worse it will get. If people start keeping money in their mattresses, we will be in a depression, and then at least CNN will be reporting the truth.

The US economy IS diverse and fundamentally sound. This is an over-correction and will pass.

That is the most incorrect assesment I have seen on any topic in all my years on S-B. I work for one of the largest financial companies in the world and have seen presentations by the smartest investment people in the world, and they disagree with you.
Lets look at your points. The consumer is the heart of this economy - true. But the consumer is going to foot the bill for the billions in government bailout, the consumer is goign to foot the bill for the local municipalities that are having budget shortfalls, the consumer is impacted by rising unemployment.
So, your advice to the consumer is to keep spending? So who bails out the consumer?

And lets not forget that one of the big manufacturing industries that helped the country grow for decades....is about to fold like a house of cards.

http://www.boston.com/business/ticker/2008/11/ri_unemployment_1.html

Ouch.

thinking about all the places my dad and his generation worked at all mfg jobs gone.drive along 95 in ct and see all the old factory brick buildings closed for years.the gun that won the west winchesters and colt gone for years.wow free trade,all mfg jobs to china,usa a consumer nation in the toilet.thank our politicans and keep on thanking them.

I agree RIJimmy! Wheresmy50 things must be nice in the world you live in! Can I get a pair of those rose colored glasses? Recession has to be the stupidest word/term I have ever heard! I think it was made up by politicians so they can put a pair of those rose colored glasses on everyone when there is a brown pile of crap staring them in the face! Recession as it is known has come and passed in my eyes and we are staring depression in the eyes as we speak!! Not a depression as they knew the one in 1929 but a modern day depression! The mortgage companies get a bailout of 700 billion dollars from the government so they do not go tits up, the "Big Three" are seeking same as they are on the verge of collapse and unemployment is an out of control freight train that is gaining steam and headed for 10% nationally so you better get out of the way because if you do not think that train is coming down the tracks as sure as we speak here it is going to crush you! Might want to pick up a paper, watch the news or better still.......just talk to your neighbors on either side of you.....they may have a different story to tell about how bad it is!:doh:

I work for a medium size financial mgmt company. From 2002 to 2008 our assets under management went from 250 million to just about 8 billion dollars this past August. From August to yesterday? we are down to 4.4 billion. I know when I say billions you are thinking huge amounts, but the drop from August is truly frightening in such a short time. Just walking through South Station and on the train you can sense the mood and see the anxiety in people's faces. Obama has his work cut out for him but I think we all need to drop the crap about who's fault it is, he's a socialist, etc and pull together. After all, that spirit of community got the country through the 30's (and 25% unemployment - 1 out 4 workers!!!) even though there are still dip%$%$%$%$s to this day who poo poo Roosevelt and his programs as "socialist"..

what got America out of the depression was a World War, lets hope thats not whats needed.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081121/ap_on_go_ot/intel_trends

http://www.boston.com/business/ticker/2008/11/ri_unemployment_1.html

Ouch.

Last night they showed a chart on the news that put RI at 10.3%. MA & CT were a little better, but overall, New England is taking a pretty big hit.

SPOT ON and exactly what I have been saying for a while now.

The US economy is 2/3 consumer spending, so every gloom and doom news story makes things a tiny fraction worse by causing people to spend less money. Less money spent hurts businesses, who need to lay people off, who spend less, and the cycle continues.

Just like how every media COMPANY this summer was parading faux experts predicting $7 gas by Christmas, they're now all throwing around the word "depression" when we're not yet even officially in a recession. Bad news sells. We were hearing how bad the economy was when the dow was at 14,000 for Christ's sake.

I'm not saying we're not in a slowdown, and I'm not even saying things aren't worse than they were earlier in the year.

My point is this - the worse you think the economy is, the worse it will get. If people start keeping money in their mattresses, we will be in a depression, and then at least CNN will be reporting the truth.

The US economy IS diverse and fundamentally sound. This is an over-correction and will pass.

Scott your insane too?:conf: This is not a "the sky is falling" scenario......people are having problems and are being impacted even if the roses are still in bloom at your house...but they do not bloom forever.

I love when people call this situation a "Slowdown"...it tickles me!:doh:

salty, name one area of potential growth? Just one?
Name one industry that is doing well? One?

TO put it in perspective- thinking things were good, spending money you didnt have, borrowing on your house and other signs of "confidence" are what fu*ked us.

This is not a perception problem, this is reality.

People are calling it a slowdown because unfortunately, there is an actual definition for a "Recession", and that hasn't happened yet. It may happen, but guessing what may happen and declaring that something has happened are very different.

RI Jimmy - which part of what I said was incorrect?

The US economy is based on consumer spending. If people stop spending, it will ruin the economy. They were predicting riduculous gas prices - predictions that were wrong. Things will improve. If people actually do stop spending, it will get a lot worse before it gets better.

Do you think the economy will be slow forever? I don't. Did you think it would be good forever when your neighbor who makes $50k somehow bought a $400k house? Like magic, but with consequences.

The US may end up in a recession. It's happened before, it will happen again.

The difference is the coverage. This is the first one since the post-9/11 escallation in news coverage. The news media is not out to serve the public, they're companies that make money based on how many people watch. No different than any other advertising. Their product is the information. The more interesting the information, the more money they make.

RI JIM there's no perception problem. Medical stuff is through the roof still, values have held VERY well, Athena just announced yesterday they are hiring 400 new employees in the next year in Maine alone. Pharmaceuticals is still doing well. Wireless is still VERY much active and substantial buildouts continue. Solar power is growing every day. As is wind power.

WOOD LURES is a growing industry. I've not stopped building that's for sure. I fill the bins and they empty. It's at least putting food on the table right now.

That's more than one. I could go on and on. This problem has been here for almost 2 years. I know because with my businesses I see the up and downturns alot faster than most guys would. High and low end.

Just because some assclown says everything is bad doesn't mean it is. It's a slowdown. It's probably a recession based on my views of things in the last two years but LIFE GOES ON.

Sitting watching the stock market move 200 points in a minute doesn't mean the world is going to end. There's money to be made out there and businesses to grow. YOU JUST HAVE TO WORK FOR IT. Frig the stockmarket and what these pencil pushers say. I talk to many people every day and it's not all good and rosy but it's not all doom and gloom either.

The economy is what you make of it just like any other day you wake up.



salty, name one area of potential growth? Just one?
Name one industry that is doing well? One?

TO put it in perspective- thinking things were good, spending money you didnt have, borrowing on your house and other signs of "confidence" are what fu*ked us.

This is not a perception problem, this is reality.

Exactly.

People are calling it a slowdown because unfortunately, there is an actual definition for a "Recession", and that hasn't happened yet. It may happen, but guessing what may happen and declaring that something has happened are very different.

RI Jimmy - which part of what I said was incorrect?

The US economy is based on consumer spending. If people stop spending, it will ruin the economy. They were predicting riduculous gas prices - predictions that were wrong. Things will improve. If people actually do stop spending, it will get a lot worse before it gets better.

Do you think the economy will be slow forever? I don't. Did you think it would be good forever when your neighbor who makes $50k somehow bought a $400k house? Like magic, but with consequences.

The US may end up in a recession. It's happened before, it will happen again.

The difference is the coverage. This is the first one since the post-9/11 escallation in news coverage. The news media is not out to serve the public, they're companies that make money based on how many people watch. No different than any other advertising. Their product is the information. The more interesting the information, the more money they make.

Your assesment that the fundamentals of the economy are strong is incorrect.
Fact - Major financial corporations needed to be bailed out, there still not improving
Fact - the major automakers - employing millions are nearing backruptcy
Fact - unemplyment is rising at an insane rate
Fact - The GLOBAL economy is suffering
Fact - the US has ZERO growth opportunites. Are you expecting a tech boom?
Fact - housing prices still need to come down another 15%
Fact - most 401ks and 529 plans are down 40-60%

None of that is from the media. I dont watch the news. So please tell me why consumers should go out and spend? The definition of a recession is outdated and irrevellevant. Facts are facts.

salty, with all due respect you're clueless.
"the economy is what you make it" thats brilliant.
Its great medical is doing well, I wonder how many Cobra claims there were last month. I wonder how many will be going to the doctor once they have to PAY to go. Something tells me people will forgo their erections when they have to pay for their Viagra. Its all a cycle Salty, trust me, wait until you see what will fall next.

W50 - you missing on the most crucial component - consumers HAVE to stop spending, they're out of work, their kids college 529 plans are in the toilet, their savings has dried up and their houses are worth less than they borrowed!

OBAMA :faga:

We're being sent home early and there were about 4 adds for jobs under general in the paper this am. We're boned..

RI JIM whatever I'm not clueless no matter what you think. I own 2 businesses and had a 3rd previously. I'm not a dummy. Take care.

Fact - the US has ZERO growth opportunites. Are you expecting a tech boom?
What a lame thing to say :hs:

Look at the companies that produce oil and gas exploration equipment, they all have 10 year backlogs of orders.

The US has the best environment for innovation, investement and IP protection on the planet...the the world has big problems that need to be solved. Energy technology alone is perhaps a bigger growth industry that has been seen in many decades.

-spence

RI JIM whatever I'm not clueless no matter what you think. I own 2 businesses and had a 3rd previously. I'm not a dummy. Take care.

and the people I am getting my info from are heads of the Harvard Bus school and bank 10 mil a year and have been in the financial industry for 40+ years.

What a lame thing to say :hs:

Look at the companies that produce oil and gas exploration equipment, they all have 10 year backlogs of orders.

The US has the best environment for innovation, investement and IP protection on the planet...the the world has big problems that need to be solved. Energy technology alone is perhaps a bigger growth industry that has been seen in many decades.

-spence
yes, and with the drop in oil prices, companies will have less to invest, thus stopping research and exploration.
Energy technololgy as growth will no be viable for YEARS, at least 5-10. thats not growth. I stand by my statement.

"The combination of weaker real activity and slower inflation means that profits of U.S. companies will fall even more sharply than we had previously expected," Goldman said in a note to clients.

Goldman now sees economic profits falling 25 percent in 2009 on an annual average basis, the biggest drop since 1938. It had earlier expected a fall of 20 percent.

Goldman expects unemployment rates to further go up in 2010 as well, as there is little chance of the economy returning to trend growth by that year.

If I think its good, it will be good. If I think its good, it will be good. If I think its good, it will be good. If I think its good, it will be good. If I think its good, it will be good. If I think its good, it will be good.

Don't forget to click 3 times....

If I think its good, it will be good. If I think its good, it will be good. If I think its good, it will be good. If I think its good, it will be good. If I think its good, it will be good. If I think its good, it will be good.
So depressing...

I work with product development manufacturing companies. We sell them software to improve productivity and enable innovation to help them design products faster, better and more efficiently.

The companies I work with are not depressed. They're leaning their processes, cutting costs where necessary and looking for ways to maintain or increase their competitive positions and apply core competencies to new markets.

Certianly the drop in free cash is painful, and those with weak balance sheets might even fail.

But nobody has hung it up.

-spence

Ok I'm hanging it up now. RIJim said it's bad so I might as well just curl up in a shell and quit now.

FOR SALE: EVERYTHING. Come make me an offer there's no sense going to work every day now.

Folks it's as bad as YOU make it. I've not stopped pushing my company forward. We've had a good year this year and I expect 2009 not to be any different :huh:

I've talked to every other small business in my building and they're not slow either. Small machine shop jobshop, gas detection sales & repair, antique auto parts :huh:

If we use the medical field as a litinus test of how effective research and development will be utilized, keep in mind that during the strive to find a dure for cancer the researchers found that one of the treatments being tested had a unique and unusual side affect, that could be useful.

The result was the creation of pills like Viagra and Cialis.

So where are the earth-shattering, ground-breaking discoveries of cancer cures? They're still being "tested", where we now have who knows how many "treatments" for erectile disfunction?

Then there's the story of the electric car, but that's a (horror) story for another day.

The environment for ingenuity and innovation has been side-tracked by an environment of greed and self-gratitude. Oh, there are advances to me made, but like most things in our world, they come with a cost.

The pirates are doing well. The Saudis just paid 150 million for that tanker. Thats gonna build a lot of seaside villas along the somali coast.

never mind.... that was 150 million paid over the past year to the Pirates

yes, and with the drop in oil prices, companies will have less to invest, thus stopping research and exploration.
Energy technololgy as growth will no be viable for YEARS, at least 5-10. thats not growth. I stand by my statement.
There will be no shortage in research and exploration. Yes, areas that are thought to be less productive will be tapped into as late as possible, but the incredible demand for energy (even assuming declines in consumption from a global slowdown) will still mandate companies do everything to increase supply or innovate new technologies.

It simply has to happen or the human race with collapse. This on its own has an energizing affect on the economy.

-spence

FOR SALE: EVERYTHING. Come make me an offer there's no sense going to work every day now.

Baldie, I'll give you a case of water packed tuna and a carboy of Poland Springs for your current inventory. Trust me, at this rate you're going to need it.

-spence

RI JIM there's no perception problem. Medical stuff is through the roof still, values have held VERY well, Athena just announced yesterday they are hiring 400 new employees in the next year in Maine alone.

What a lame thing to say :hs:

Look at the companies that produce oil and gas exploration equipment, they all have 10 year backlogs of orders.-spence

As my earlier post stated, my job is safe and as a company we are still hiring. I actually work for a medical software company. Our customers (hospitals, home care agencies, long term care facilities, etc) have been somewhat affected by 'an available credit' crunch but we have a backlog of over 1+ years of signed business.

Don't get me wrong, folks should be prudent in these times but everything is cyclical and some companies will fare far better than others during these tough economic times.

I bet the licqour companies and beer distributors will still do well......people drink in good times and in bad.

Going out less to save money will translate into staying home and entertaining more.

I would bet that supermarkets will show an upswing for the same reason...you may even see a resurgence in home gardens.

if you're a glass half full kinda guy...you might see this situation actually bring America back to simpler times and re-prioritize what's important.

or we could be over-run with mutant zombies that leave mankind in a spiral towards extinction....either way we will soon see

So depressing...

I work with product development manufacturing companies. We sell them software to improve productivity and enable innovation to help them design products faster, better and more efficiently.

The companies I work with are not depressed. They're leaning their processes, cutting costs where necessary and looking for ways to maintain or increase their competitive positions and apply core competencies to new markets.

Certianly the drop in free cash is painful, and those with weak balance sheets might even fail.

But nobody has hung it up.

-spence

And I manage those projects, not in manufacturing though. and the first that will go is all projects, all research and all employees who dont get the donuts out the door.

Im trying to tell you guys that I am privy the analysis of some brilliant people and their forecast fro the next 2 years is grim. those that dont see the impact now, guess what - 1 months ago I opened 3 reqs for new employess, approved by the president of the company. last week we layed of over 50% of my team, all reqs frozen.
Im just saying BE PREPARED. The outlook financially is dismal. My debate is over. I will you all the best of prosperity

SHAVED Spence SHAVED. There is a big difference. Kinda like Brooks Brothers and Armani :hihi:

I don't drink much bottled water. Shop opens at 4 tomorrow and be there early for the firesale:fishslap: :hihi:

Baldie, I'll give you a case of water packed tuna and a carboy of Poland Springs for your current inventory. Trust me, at this rate you're going to need it.

-spence

I'll take all of your kits for half a tank of heating oil, Scott. I figure by the time I can finish them, the economy will be flourishing and the prices for wood lures will be astronomical. And with you out of business, the demand for vintage #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& stuff will be through the roof.

Interesting read....old article but interesting just the same

Can't Government Leave the Market Alone?
Forget Greedy Capitalism, the Real Problem Is Interference in Market Forces
Column By MICHAEL S. MALONE
Oct. 3, 2008 —


What if the current mortgage/credit crunch is not just an isolated financial crisis, but, in fact, the signal for the death of one era, and the (painful) birth of another?

If that is the case, it goes a long way towards explaining the bizarre nature of what we're seeing going on in Washington and on Wall Street & and suggests that we need a whole different set of solutions.

Living out here in Silicon Valley, the heartland of American innovation, it's hard not to be appalled by the events taking place 3,000 miles away in the seats of American finance and government -- and hard not to fall back on the 'pox on both their houses' attitude that polls say is increasingly common among American voters.

From where I sit, the United States government has embarked on two pieces of social engineering in the last few years. One was to make oil as expensive as possible to drive people to greater use of alternative energy sources -- because anything less would be irresponsible and destructive to the environment. The other was to enshrine home ownership (i.e., easy-to-obtain mortgages) as a new American right because anything less would be unequal and racist.

None of us voted on these decisions -- indeed, neither was even spoken about directly, much less debated. But nevertheless, both became national policy and both have sparked national, and now international, crises.

Once they became crises, both were blamed on "greedy capitalism," instead of what they really were: legislative interference into market forces.

Fine. We've been through this before, and no doubt we will see similar, government-induced crises again -- inevitably accompanied by administration officials and our elected representatives pointing at everyone but themselves.

But what makes this particular economic crisis so appalling, at least from this vantage point, is the sheer scumminess, corruption, short-sightedness and general incompetence of everyone involved. At least in the business world, especially in the take-no-prisoners world of high-tech, that kind of venality and ineptitude either gets you fired or kills the company; by comparison, in Washington, it puts you in charge of the recovery effort.

Nobody in this mess has covered himself or herself in glory.

President Bush seems to have had the right instincts on this, but as a lame duck who long ago burned up all of his public support, he mostly seems dithering and toothless. The Democrats declare that the nation is at risk, then go about as usual turning the bailout bill into another -- yet another -- partisan pay-off scheme to fund the next round of crisis-creating social engineering.

Corruption in Washington
It is a measure of just how corrupt the Dems have become that Sen. Chris Dodd and Rep. Barney Frank, who perhaps more than anyone in Washington, are responsible for this crisis -- not only are allowed to keep their committee seats, but run the press conference on the bailout.

The crowning moment, of course, comes just before the vote on the bailout package when Speaker Nancy Pelosi decided, putting the needs of her country first, to use the podium to attack the Bush administration and the GOP.

The Republicans, as we all heard, maturely responded to Pelosi by banging their little fists on the floor and refusing to play anymore. Wah-wah-wah. Remember when Republicans were the outsiders in D.C.? Now they are such corrupt Washington insiders that, like a group of palace courtiers, they are willing to put the entire U.S. economy at risk over protocol and etiquette.

As for the two presidential candidates, the less said the better. Sen. McCain, sensing a great PR opportunity to show that he is both a leader and a Beltway Pharisee, blasted into Washington, made a lot of noise, accomplished little, and was all but run back out of town. Sen. Obama, who appears to be up to his neck in Fannie Mae "contributions," did as he always does: said a few platitudes, (metaphorically) voted "Present" and took off as quickly as he could.

Meanwhile, while this absurdity is going on, the stock market tanks, and the U.S. economy loses $1 trillion.

It is impossible not to look upon all of this as kind of a vast, predictable pantomime. The same people who created the mess are honored for (sorta) getting us out of it, a few scapegoats go to jail, the real perpetrators not only escape punishment, but are often rewarded, a bunch of regular people get screwed (lose their jobs, go bankrupt), and a whole lot more end up paying the bill for 2 million failed mortgages that never should have been granted in the first place.

The American people know this, which is why:

1) They aren't taking this current crisis as seriously as pundits say they should -- after all, if our elected officials can play politics against their enemies, and take the time to lard the bailout bill with pork, why should they?

2) They have nominated for president two candidates who -- ostensibly -- represent "maverick" attitudes and "change."

The Economic Crisis
To my mind, what makes this economic crisis different from ones in even the recent past is that it has exposed the fact that there are, apparently, no real leaders left in Washington -- that the intellectual capital in the national capitol has fallen to a new low, if that's possible. Most of all, it shows that we can no longer look to D.C. for leadership into the rest of the 21st century.

Marxists and statists of all stripes are, as one might expect, rubbing their hands in glee and declaring this the final death crisis of capitalism. But I think just the opposite is occurring. What we are, in fact, seeing are the final death throes of governmental social engineering. As I noted two weeks ago, we are in a kind of Mentos-in-coke world right now -- where, thanks to tech, the sheer speed of transactions and the enormous breadth of response, almost any outside influence can quickly turn the whole economy (or culture) into an explosive brew.

As it happens, out here in Silicon Valley, we have been conducting our own social engineering experiments. Three, in fact, have been at least as sweeping as Freddie Mac's changing of mortgage eligibility rules. One of them has been to wire the entire world in a huge, high-speed global information grid (the Internet). Another has been to restructure the entire entertainment industry and its pricing model (the iPod). And the third has been to empower the citizenry to form groups based upon common interests, rather than the limitations of physical proximity (Web 2.0 -- social networks).

Here's the thing. All three of these multibillion-dollar projects have been pay-as-you-go, driven largely by individuals and companies that assume their own risk. They have instantly rewarded smart decisions and punished bad ones, they are tested every millisecond against human nature (i.e., the marketplace), they are biased towards efficiency over seniority, and most of all, they are voluntary.

And they are all succeeding.

We will get out of this current financial mess -- not by government fiat, but because entrepreneurs and smart corporate executives and hard-working everyday people will innovate us out of it. They will come up with the new financial instruments that restructure this debt, the new technologies that will generate the wealth to make up for this loss (as they did after 9/11) and ultimately create more jobs than are right now being lost.

And if Washington really wanted to help Americans (and there is no indication right now that it does) it would, the instant it passes the bailout bill, get to work -- not adding more regulations in response to this crisis, but stripping away the destructive ones we created after the last big one.

A good place to start would be Sarbanes-Oxley, which brilliantly keeps wealth out of the hands of regular workers (by keeping start-up companies from going public), all while costing, by my reckoning, $200 billion over the last six years.

Lessons for Washington
If the last two weeks have taught us anything, it is that Washington is not going to get fixed, no matter who is elected. The world is moving on. Seven-hundred-thousand people are joining, via the Web, the global economy each day. If the prognosticators are right, we are now only 1,000 days or so from crucial turning points in the world economy (the next billion consumers, universal wireless broadband, nanotech, thinking machines, etc.)

A new era -- with new rules, new winners and new losers -- is coming up on us fast, and we need to get ready for it right now. Our national leaders just had their chance to prove they were prepared for this new era -- and they have failed miserably. We now have to look elsewhere for leadership … and quickly.

when your out of food, have to watch non-cable TV, burning your dining room set for heat, wearing patched-up old clothes and your whole family is huddled up crying....then it's BAD!!!! until then I'll keep on living....peace...

And I manage those projects, not in manufacturing though. and the first that will go is all projects, all research and all employees who dont get the donuts out the door.

The first thing that will go is "all projects?"

I see why you're so depressed.

-spence

Im trying to tell you guys that I am privy the analysis of some brilliant people and their forecast fro the next 2 years is grim. those that dont see the impact now, guess what - 1 months ago I opened 3 reqs for new employess, approved by the president of the company. last week we layed of over 50% of my team, all reqs frozen.
Im just saying BE PREPARED. The outlook financially is dismal. My debate is over. I will you all the best of prosperity
I'm not sure anyone has a good read on how this is going to play out. For every optimist there's a pessimist to balance it out.

That being said, I do think things are going to get much worse...but how much remains to be seen.

and the people I am getting my info from are heads of the Harvard Bus school and bank 10 mil a year and have been in the financial industry for 40+ years.

But I bet they couldn't fix their broken garage door with a coat hanger..
I could..
Common sense..Good to have..Tough to teach....:lurk::lurk:

But I bet they couldn't fix their broken garage door with a coat hanger..
I could..
Common sense..Good to have..Tough to teach....:lurk::lurk:

And they work with YOU, JIM!! how lame can they be!!

You guys notice the trend in here? The guys with 2 incomes still coming in think everything is fine and the folks with 1 income and 1 layoff or impending layoff are feeling the pinch? Hmmmm.......its quite curious! I am gonna pay close attention the next few months and see where the ax falls and how the tune will change for some!:hee:

No sense worrying as there is nothing I can do. I have been part time for 8 years now so I am used to a reduced salary. Just have to live within your means. If a lay off happens it would most definitely hurt anyone but to sit around and wait for it to happen is not my cup of tea. I will cross that bridge if or when it comes. Going back to sticking my head in the sand.

Man, what is the world coming to when I actually agree with this guy!

Obama acknowledged Saturday that evidence is growing the country is "facing an economic crisis of historic proportions." He noted turmoil on Wall Street, a decrease in new home purchases, growing jobless claims and the menacing problem of deflation.

I guess Salty and WM50 still think this is just some wacky media over exageration.

That crazy, wHAcKy media!! They just announced it was all a joke....an elaborate rouse that has been perpetrated over the course of the last 5 years! A very well orchestrated and detailed charade in which through the use of media outlets such as television, radio, newspaper and foreign media markets as well.....they managed to pull the wool over our eyes!!!:jump:

The truth is we all have jobs, our houses are paid for, there is no war and we all have lots of money!!! Wow what fools are we!:tooth:

That crazy, wHAcKy media!! They just announced it was all a joke....an elaborate rouse that has been perpetrated over the course of the last 5 years! A very well orchestrated and detailed charade in which through the use of media outlets such as television, radio, newspaper and foreign media markets as well.....they managed to pull the wool over our eyes!!!:jump:

The truth is we all have jobs, our houses are paid for, there is no war and we all have lots of money!!! Wow what fools are we!:tooth:

Thats basically what I have been telling Nebe about Bush. :laugha:

RI JIMMY stop with the comments already. That's not what I said. I'm not going to sit and argue about this when I got work to do. Not worth getting worked up over this stuff.

I think alot of what is being said in the media is hype and exaggeration. I think for every guy that says it sucks right now there are others who don't see the same thing. I believe as do others that there are parts of the economy that are still growing. Not screaming fast but growing.

Sure the country might be in a recession. Sure unemployment may be high...it's been higher...The sky ISN'T falling and it's not worth getting all worked up about the stuff!

Besides Obama will take care of you and pay your mortgage after Jan 20 :hee:

Dude Im not picking on you but in your postyou say - thats not what I said and in the next line that this is a lot of hype and media exaggeration.
Salty - the big 3 automakers are on the verge of collapse - 5 million jobs impacted
- the finacial bailout is unprescedented in our history

I left out the 30 other things going down the tube that mentioned in previous posts. I cannot see how the media is "hyping" this? Its reality. Its data driven fact.
The sky is in fact falling - thats what historic proportions means.

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!:hihi:

The sky is falling,we're all gonna die.

If I think its good, it will be good. If I think its good, it will be good. If I think its good, it will be good. If I think its good, it will be good. If I think its good, it will be good. If I think its good, it will be good.
That a Boy Jimmy,just breath into the bag & you'll be fine:hee:

Don't forget to click 3 times....

Priceless

So depressing...

I work with product development manufacturing companies. We sell them software to improve productivity and enable innovation to help them design products faster, better and more efficiently.

The companies I work with are not depressed. They're leaning their processes, cutting costs where necessary and looking for ways to maintain or increase their competitive positions and apply core competencies to new markets.
\

Spence,
I invested 12 yrs. in a printing Co.right oughta college,I worked in electronic pre press we had 12 Guy's in our Dept as computer tech industry grew at such a rapid rate we advanced to stay w/ the Jones's (back in da day)we went from courier to T1 then T3 then email proofs to dirtect to Plate,I was flying to N.Y & PA. every year for soft ware upgrades just to keep up w/ the Jones's!Also not to mention we mostly printed for investors like Fidelity,Pioneer,Eaton Vance,Putnum,Sun Life ect......
We went from 12 to 3 of us we still outputed better quality,higher volume because we had more automation tighter tolorances & had less man power........
The enevidable fell apon us we closed:rtfm:

Thank God:hihi:
Im so glad it closed,I would not want to be there now(that is if it was still open)Im sure it would close along w/ other printing co.in this time of uncertainty and finacial squaler.
I'd be lost in the pool of un employment along with lost soles.

I will never forget the feeling of going into work day in and day out just watching my Buddys getting the ax and knowing it's comming my way:rtfm:It sucked & I'll pray for all of those who are going through the same.

On a different note,
My Wife and I keep things tight to the cuff,we watch our pennys food shop with coupoons ect.we have no car payments,(trailer only)absolutly no CC dept we try and sock away what ever we can just in case.We are very lucky to have jobs & that are in that are in no shot commings.



Bob

I'm checking out of this one.

If there was a 5 year war where one person was killed, the mother of that soldier would think it was a costly war. There would be no convincing her otherwise. Some people have it bad now, and in that situation it's hard to see anything positive.

The assertion that those who disagree are either ignorant of the situation or a stranger to financial harship is sadly typical and overused.

We as a country developed a lot of bad habbits economics-wise during the last 15 years. If this downturn stops some of those, we will be stronger for it.

WM50....your first statement confirms exactly my point......unless things are tough at home, which is the case in I would guess 80% of American homes right now, you would be ignorant to what is truly going on!

Spence,
I invested 12 yrs. in a printing Co.right oughta college,I worked in electronic pre press we had 12 Guy's in our Dept as computer tech industry grew at such a rapid rate we advanced to stay w/ the Jones's (back in da day)we went from courier to T1 then T3 then email proofs to dirtect to Plate,I was flying to N.Y & PA. every year for soft ware upgrades just to keep up w/ the Jones's!Also not to mention we mostly printed for investors like Fidelity,Pioneer,Eaton Vance,Putnum,Sun Life ect......
We went from 12 to 3 of us we still outputed better quality,higher volume because we had more automation tighter tolorances & had less man power........
The enevidable fell apon us we closed:rtfm:
A lot of this is just the natural cycle of globalization though. High-speed networks make it easy for this sort of work to be done anywhere and at a lower cost. The companies that stay alive are the ones that innovate to deliver new services at higher margins so they don't fold when the technology becomes common.

It obviously hurts when it happens to you, but without this cycle we'd see no new technology!

This is why our government needs to get into the game of incentives for new energy technology. We still have a lot of cheap energy on the planet and it's clear that industry will bleed it dry before we see a real sea change towards sustainable methods of living.

-spence

WM50....your first statement confirms exactly my point......unless things are tough at home, which is the case in I would guess 80% of American homes right now, you would be ignorant to what is truly going on!

BF - My wife and I are still employed and not in any financial hardhsip presently. My view of what is going on is based on observation. At no point in our history has the government taken such a role in the economic direction and structure of this country. Never. Very soon, the governement will be funding our banks, our credit our purchases. All the while, this false economy will continue to collapse.
Some go fishing in shorts and a t-shirt, I wear 3 layers, waders and korkers. Better to be prepared and I see a long windy rainy season, with 12 ft swells heading our way

Some go fishing in shorts and a t-shirt, I wear 3 layers, waders and korkers. Better to be prepared and I see a long windy rainy season, with 12 ft swells heading our way
Don't forget your boat w/all those fancy electronics :hihi:

-spence

RIJimmy...not sure if you misunderstood my last post? My point was that it seems many who have a stable 2 income situation are not seeing the big picture...obviously you are.

RIJimmy...not sure if you misunderstood my last post? My point was that it seems many who have a stable 2 income situation are not seeing the big picture...obviously you are.

I know, I just wanted you to acknowledge by brillaince.

Brilliance acknowledged Jimmy! You spelled brilliance wrong!!:smash:

hey Einstein couldnt tie his shoes, we all have our faults