so the evil repunlicans are questioning the LARGEST spending bill in history and Moveon.org is running adds to target them? Its wrong for people to questions this? Realize there is no proof or even academic support for the provisions of this bill, its just a try it and see effort.
Libs are nuts.



House Republicans have proposed an alternative that leaders say would create 6.2 million jobs for only $478 billion.

"What Member can't go back his or her District and explain: Rather than voting for a bloated bill, ... I voted for an alternative that would create twice the jobs at half the cost, and faster?" a House Republican leadership aide said. "That's why we didn't lose a single Republican and picked up 11 Democrats."

Pushing back against the unanimous House Republican vote against President Obama’s stimulus plan, the White House plans to release state-by-state job figures “so we can put a number on what folks voted for an against,” an administration aide said.

“It’s clear the Republicans who voted against the stimulus represent constituents who will be stunned to learn their member of Congress voted against [saving or] creating 4 million jobs,” the aide said.

White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said the lawmakers will have to answer to their constituents.

“I do believe that there will be people in districts all over the country that will wonder why, when there’s a good bill to get the economy moving again, why we still seem to be playing political gotcha," Gibbs said.

And later today, MoveOn, Americans United for Change, AFSCME and SEIU will be announcing a new ad campaign targeting moderate Republican senators who might support the stimulus — Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe of Maine, Judd Gregg of New Hampshire, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska and Charles Grassley of Iowa.

The ad, which will run in the Washington market and in those states, consists of clips of the president talking about the stimulus, followed by the male voiceover, “Tell Congress to support the Obama plan for jobs, not the failed policies of the past.”

Letters on the screen say: “Tell Congress to support the Obama Plan.” The president met privately with House Republicans at the Capitol, Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel had a private White House dinner for House GOP moderates, and the President had members of both parties and both chambers over for cocktails last night.

But they did not peel off a single Republican.

The tally took reporters by surprise: Aides had said the party’s votes for the package might be in the single digits. So “zero” was a feat for House Minority Leader John Boehner of Ohio, who said on “Meet the Press” that he would oppose the package, and the next day asked members to follow him; House Minority Whip Eric Cantor of Virginia, who nailed down the votes; and House Republican Conference Chairman Mike Pence of Indiana. Pence sensed his members falling under Obama’s spell during their meeting Monday and brought them back by telling the President: “Know that we’re praying for you. … But know that there has been no negotiation [with us] on this bill – we had absolutely no say.”

Although a tactical triumph, the vote poses a risk to Republicans in the long run, with Democrats able to portray them as the party of "no" at a time when voters are hurting. Some House Republicans are likely to try to dilute the political risk by voting for the final version of the stimulus package after it passes the Senate.






http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090129/pl_politico/18160

I agree. This bill is not what they are saying it is... :huh:

I agree. This bill is not what they are saying it is... :huh:


I think double digit inflation is right around the corner.

Unless someone votes for/against a bill b/c they are trying to make the sponsor or other party fail (and I'm sure we have read how the repub. want Obama to fail), I sometimes disagree with going after a member b/c of his vote.

What I was not suprised to see was confirmation how the repubs. vote in lock step.

"Left, right, you got your marching orders, left, right, we don't want any disention, left right, don't fall out of step, left right, we told you how to vote, left, right, if you don't like it, no pages for you, left, right,..."

Democrat Action Plan:

1) Spend money to correct problem

2) Tax the $hit out of the people who are productive to fund it.

3) When it fails "It would have worked but we didn't have enough money."

4) Repeat as many times as necessary to buy re-election votes from special interests.

When you hear how this "stimulus" money is being dispensed, you have to wonder: How do these items/projects promote job growth or stimulate anything other than some "special-interest groups" wallets?
Over $300 million for "sexually transmitted diseases? (I won't even start on this one)

4 billion to ACORN? Talk about your "special interest groups"!

Exactly how does giving money to help build a new sports facility in Florida help the nations economy? Exactly how many NEW jobs will that create?

Giving money to build a duck pond in California is surely going to turn that state's economy around, RIGHT!

This stimulus package, as presented is like any other apporpriations bill in Washington..... full of Sh*t!!!!
It looks more and more like a "this is in appreciation for helping me get elected" gift to plenty of people that definitely don't deserve anything other than a one-way ride out of town.

This is like the obligatory office gift you HAVE to contribute to, for a coworker that you can't stand.

We (those who actually work for a living) are getting the royal screw job once again.

I agree. This bill is not what they are saying it is... :huh:

:love:

I dont know what the solution is but lets get it right.

I know I'll get the wacko label again, but anyone notice the headlines the last two days have been all doom and gloom at the individual levels? Guy murdering his family becasue they lost their jobs, increased suicide calls. CNN now has the headline @ the "Devils Cave" for homeless people. Its like these guys sole purpose it to further the democrat agenda.

Obama is "disappointed" but "knows it's going to take longer than a few days to change the way Washington works," spokesman Robert Gibbs said in a round of US television network interviews. "His hand will continue to be extended."

Ahh " Its the way Washinton works" thats stalling the process! Oh, hell is that whats stopping us from spending 820 BBBBBBBBBBBillion! That right, its those evil republicans!
Wouldnt it have been great if the Dems had balls, errr, I mean political foresight to NOT vote for the evil Bush war in Iraq? Can you imagine what MIGHT have happened if they listened to Barry and rallied around his opposition?

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Smoking cessation programs make up $75 million of the economic stimulus bill making its way through the Senate, according to Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa, who sponsored the funding.
Sen. Tom Harkin's office says smoking causes $110 billion in health costs each year.

Harkin said the programs were an attempt to bolster the economy by lowering the soaring health-care costs smoking causes each year.

The money will be used to bolster existing anti-smoking campaigns run by the Department of Health and Human Services and to buy new equipment at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which tests the contents of cigarettes.

What about all the southern states that produce tobacco? What about the medical professionals that recieve the money for care, what about undertakers? Wont this HURT them? We need new machines to tell us that cigarettes are bad??????? How is this economic stimulus????

Democrat Action Plan:

1) Spend money to correct problem

2) Tax the $hit out of the people who are productive to fund it.

3) When it fails "It would have worked but we didn't have enough money."

4) Repeat as many times as necessary to buy re-election votes from special interests.

That's it in a nutshell! Only this time we are throwing the country's future away. This makes the money spent on the war on terror look like peanuts. Remember the deficit......our childrens future... this money will be pissed away and we will have nothing to show for it. How come the Dow has dropped every day since "He" became President?

Funny how RIJIMMY is sent off the deep end by Moveon.org...yea, the pulse of the Democratic party :jester:

I'm sure there's plenty in this bill that I wouldn't agree with, but anyone who thinks spending to stimulate is an oxymoron doesn't have their head screwed on straight.

That's not to say that rampant or unecessary spending is wise, but most finance experts I've read seem to go along with the idea of government spending as a way to get the market moving again.

I like the fact that the GOP stood together, it must not have been easy to do. Quite likely that this bill won't make it through in the current form.

-spence

That's it in a nutshell! Only this time we are throwing the country's future away. This makes the money spent on the war on terror look like peanuts. Remember the deficit......our childrens future... this money will be pissed away and we will have nothing to show for it. How come the Dow has dropped every day since "He" became President?

The current price tag, just on Iraq is a little shy of 600Bil, so really, stimulating the economy and pissing away money and lives in Iraq is in the same ballpark :hidin:

That's it in a nutshell! Only this time we are throwing the country's future away. This makes the money spent on the war on terror look like peanuts. Remember the deficit......our childrens future... this money will be pissed away and we will have nothing to show for it. How come the Dow has dropped every day since "He" became President?

Actually, the Dow is up. Jan 20 closed at 7,949.09. And is over 8,000. With all due respect, do you do any research before making comments?

Also with regards to the country's deficit, Bush was handed a $128 billion Surplus and 8 years of Bush plus 6 years of a Republican congress turned it into an almost $400 billion deficit.

I remember the deficit, because we're still dealing with it and will be dealing with for years to come. The deficit is money that Bush and Co. pissed away.

As of October 2008, $864 billion had been spent on the War on Terror. The Iraq war has a projected, long-term cost of almost $3 trillion when long term care of veterans and other obligations are considered.

How exactly does the stimulus plan make these numbers look like peanuts??

Libs are nuts.


Just saw this, been busy and preoccupied lately...

Jim, this is NO different than Rush's Sheep.
Move-on does not speak for all libs. Like Eben I have questions, but still think a stimulus is needed....

The current price tag, just on Iraq is a little shy of 600Bil, so really, stimulating the economy and pissing away money and lives in Iraq is in the same ballpark :hidin:

You have to understand that the defence department does not just shut down if we are not at war. We spend Billions anyway. So the figure is skewed. And my family memers and the majority of servicemen and women over there, for you, might be offended by your comment.

Actually, the Dow is up. Jan 20 closed at 7,949.09. And is over 8,000. With all due respect, do you do any research before making comments?

Also with regards to the country's deficit, Bush was handed a $128 billion Surplus and 8 years of Bush plus 6 years of a Republican congress turned it into an almost $400 billion deficit.

I remember the deficit, because we're still dealing with it and will be dealing with for years to come. The deficit is money that Bush and Co. pissed away.

As of October 2008, $864 billion had been spent on the War on Terror. The Iraq war has a projected, long-term cost of almost $3 trillion when long term care of veterans and other obligations are considered.

How exactly does the stimulus plan make these numbers look like peanuts??


Seems to be down again! Even with the Savior getting his trillion dollars. Maybe we need to print more $$$$, That will fix it.

Mass in line for 6.5 billion. I'm sure the Dems are licking there chops and stuffing there pockets. What a country:claps:

How come the Dow has dropped every day since "He" became President?


Really???

You have to understand that the defense department does not just shut down if we are not at war. We spend Billions anyway. So the figure is skewed. And my family members and the majority of servicemen and women over there, for you, might be offended by your comment.

You are right.
I shouldn't have said pissed away when referring to lives being lost. My bad on that. They have a job to do. I too have friends and family members who had served over there. I don't envy them, but what they have told me does not change my perspective on it being a lost cause and waste of time, money and lives.

Really???

It's been on a steady decline since a small bumb. Dropped like a rock on the day he took office. Dropped yesterday and the more we see of this package they just passed the more it will drop. We approved 1.6 trillion dollars + or - in the last few months and I don't hear a peep about the deficit from the left. Why? because they get to spend that $$$ on votes. The war $$$ they can't

Just saw this, been busy and preoccupied lately...

Jim, this is NO different than Rush's Sheep.
Move-on does not speak for all libs. Like Eben I have questions, but still think a stimulus is needed....

The libs are nuts comment is directed towards suddenly it "bad" to question the admistration in charge. As much as you guys slammed bush on Iraq, this Bill by Obama is using all the same political tactics and fear mongering that you fault Bush with.

I'm glad Spence acknowledges the the Repubs stood against it. Its not a "sheep" movement, its showing unity against something they have issues with. As I stated earlier, imagine if the Dems had the balls to do that with the Iraq war?

As I stated earlier, imagine if the Dems had the balls to do that with the Iraq war?

Fortunately, some did.
Unfortunately, it was far too few!

It's been on a steady decline since a small bumb. Dropped like a rock on the day he took office. Dropped yesterday and the more we see of this package they just passed the more it will drop.

Thats not what you said....if I'm not mistaken isn't there an issue where the biased media distorts facts to further the Liberal Agenda....

Did you not just distort the Facts to Further the Right Wing agenda...

How come the Dow has dropped every day since "He" became President?

Looks like the EXACT same thing....I thought the "Right Don't Play Dat"

The Graph I posted clearly shows that the Dow is up from 5 days ago.

Fortunately, some did.
Unfortunately, it was far too few!

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Secretary of State............ Cheney must have had his hand up her rear like a puppet. Yup, the evil Bush admin.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkS9y5t0tR0

Fortunately, some did.
Unfortunately, it was far too few!

So True...

So True...

The fortunately is that IF she had, then she would have won :eek:
the unfortunately component is obvious...

and TDF, your comeback to buckman... :uhuh::uhuh:

the bottom line is that this bailout is bad news and filled with unnececsary charity. If the libs beleive group think and faulty intelligence got us into Iraq, why is the bailout any different. My friend Michael Moore will tell you how much Halliburton benefitted from the war, tell me, how much will Obama's buddy Warren Buffet gain from this bailout. THE MEDIA SHOULD BE ASKING THESE QUESTIONS NOT SOME MORON (me) ON A FIHSING WEBSITE !!!!

Oh well, so much for change

The Stimulus Shopping List: $1.17 Trillion in Pork Goodies

Thursday, January 29, 2009 4:00 PM

By: David A. Patten Article Font Size




Having trouble putting down that cigarette? The stimulus bill has $75 million for programs to help people quit smoking.

The $1.17 trillion stimulus bill passed by House Democrats on Wednesday bears little resemblance to the bill originally proposed by President Obama, with less than 5 percent of the funds now going to repair America’s deteriorating infrastructure.

GOP critics point out the bill is loaded with tens of billions for items ranging from Amtrak subsidies to sexually transmitted diseases to the National Endowment for the Arts -- much of which won’t actually flow into the economy until long after economists expect the current economic crisis to subside.

In late November, Obama promised: “It will be a two-year, nationwide effort to jumpstart job creation in America, and lay the foundation for a strong and growing economy. We’ll put people back to work rebuilding our crumbling roads and bridges,” modernizing schools and stimulating development of alternative forms of energy.

Even some Democrats are now objecting that the measure contains too few highway and mass transit projects. Moreover Mark Zandi, chief economist for Moody’s Economy.com, says most of the infrastructure spending in the plan won’t occur until 2010 or later.

Provisions of the bill that many legislators are questioning:


$1 billion for Amtrak, which hasn’t earned a profit in four decades.


$2 billion to help subsidize child care.


$400 million for research into global warming.


$2.4 billion for projects to demonstrate how carbon greenhouse gas can be safely removed from the atmosphere.


$650 million for coupons to help consumers convert their TV sets from analog to digital, part of the digital TV conversion.


$600 million to buy a new fleet of cars for federal employees and government departments.


$75 million to fund programs to help people quit smoking.


$21 million to re-sod the National Mall, which suffered heavy use during the Inauguration.


$2.25 billion for national parks. This item has sparked calls for an investigation, because the chief lobbyist of the National Parks Association is the son of Rep. David R. Obey, D-Wisc. The $2,25 billion is about equal to the National Park Service’s entire annual budget. The Washington Times reports it is a threefold increase over what was originally proposed for parks in the stimulus bill. Obey is chairman of the House Appropriations Committee.


$335 million for treatment and prevention of sexually transmitted diseases.


$50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts. $4.19 billion to stave off foreclosures via the Neighborhood Stabilization Program. The bill allows nonprofits to compete with cities and states for $3.44 billion of the money, which means a substantial amount of it will be captured by ACORN, the controversial activist group currently under federal investigation for vote fraud. Another $750 million would be exclusively reserved for nonprofits such as ACORN – meaning cities and states are barred from receiving that money. Sen. David Vitter, R-La., charges the money could appear to be a “payoff” for the partisan political activities community groups in the last election cycle.


$44 million to renovate the headquarters building of the Agriculture Department.


$32 billion for a “smart electricity grid to minimize waste.


$87 billion of Medicaid funds, to aid states.


$53.4 billion for science facilities, high speed Internet, and miscellaneous energy and environmental programs.


$13 billion to repair and weatherize public housing, help the homeless, repair foreclosed homes.


$20 billion for quicker depreciation and write-offs for equipment.


$10.3 billion for tax credits to help families defray the cost of college tuition.


$20 billion over five years for an expanded food stamp program.

Republican leaders say the stimulus package will add 32 new government programs at a cost of $136 billion. They object that many of the programs, once established, are likely to continue indefinitely.

Most media outlets are reporting the cost of the package at $819 billion. As Newsmax revealed yesterday, however, the Congressional Budget Office calculates that the interest on the debt generated by the bill’s spending will cost another $347.1 billion, making the total cost approximately $1.17 trillion.

Of course, the measure contains hundreds of billions in tax cuts and infrastructure projects that conservatives will find palatable. But as House Minority whip Eric Cantor, R-Va., told the media Wednesday, “This was not a stimulus bill. It was a spending bill.”

$2 billion to help subsidize child care.


I'd add the stipulation that you only get the subsidy if you are actually going to work.

Whole lot of crap there :doh:

Thats not what you said....if I'm not mistaken isn't there an issue where the biased media distorts facts to further the Liberal Agenda....

Did you not just distort the Facts to Further the Right Wing agenda...



Looks like the EXACT same thing....I thought the "Right Don't Play Dat"

The Graph I posted clearly shows that the Dow is up from 5 days ago.


TDF, There's no point in even discussing with him. This is how the extremists on the far right work. Make some outlandish unresearched statement, get proven your 100% wrong, then attempt to amend what you said or completely ignore what you said and try to change history.

Buckman won't even respond to me anymore when I correct him. Probably because a point presented with hard facts and figures is tough to argue with, as opposed to his Bill O'Reilly-pulled out of thin air with no support comments.

If the libs beleive group think and faulty intelligence got us into Iraq, why is the bailout any different[QUOTE]

I think your right. In the case of the Iraq war there were the known unknown's and the unknown unkown's as the loquacious Rummy articulated. I think this stimulus bill could also have unintended consequences as well, bad and good, and sure enough there is plenty of swine in between the lines. But swine is swine, and both Republicans and democrats play the merchant depending on whose managing the butcher shop. Is the pork what this is really over. PORK....its what's for dinner!

However, I do think greater care and preparation is going to those elements of bill that are intended to jumpstart things economically. I think this administration is going to execute with a surgical precision that was absent in Bush's administration when confronting challenges. Add to that, the way the Iraq war has been funded is unlike any war that has been funded in the past. Bush would ask congress for the money and they just forked it over albeit with concessions; swine anyone? Ordinarily, wars have been budgeted for, as opposed to the Executive back and forth with Congress saying " i need a XX billion?"....9 months later "i need another XX billion" and so on. That is what has lead to waste of millions maybe a few billion in war funding.

The point i'm trying to make here is that blanket statements affirming/predicting the uselessness of social planning is what is useless. That may seem naive but for what I've been told its more important to focus on motives behind what is trying to be achieved and then critically approach the choices and alternatives. Partisanship does none of this any good.

[QUOTE=RIJIMMY;660014]unnececsary charity

Charity is one of the supreme virtues. I am an atheist, but I did believe the pastors word when he said charity is the avenue that the mercy of god passes down to us mortals. So maybe this should be refraised as "unnecessary subsidies".

TDF, There's no point in even discussing with him. This is how the extremists on the far right work. Make some outlandish unresearched statement, get proven your 100% wrong, then attempt to amend what you said or completely ignore what you said and try to change history.

Buckman won't even respond to me anymore when I correct him. Probably because a point presented with hard facts and figures is tough to argue with, as opposed to his Bill O'Reilly-pulled out of thin air with no support comments.

I don't have a degree in finance like you guys but near as I can tell the only time the Dow has been this low, this month, was the day he took office, and it's still dropping.

The left never let the facts get in the way before.
I may be off on the details but I won't be far off on the effects of this huge waste of money, that we don't have.

The market will be below the point where Obama took office soon enough. The hypocacy of the left and the way you let Pelousi and the like, lead you around by the short hairs is scary. Welcome to Jones Town.

Charity is one of the supreme virtues. I am an atheist, but I did believe the pastors word when he said charity is the avenue that the mercy of god passes down to us mortals. So maybe this should be refraised as "unnecessary subsidies".

Good, then introduce a bill with the proposals for charity. BUT this charity crap is getting bundled in with a stimulus package being marketed with the fear of the current economy.

I find it hard to swallow that you believe this Administraion will execute this so smoothly when the facts of how inflated this bill are presented before you. If they cant even focus now, how do you think the will later. :whackin:

I find it hard to swallow that you believe this Administraion will execute this so smoothly when the facts of how inflated this bill are presented before you. If they cant even focus now, how do you think the will later. :whackin:

I get what your saying. This bill has lots of pork.

But you've got to keep in mind that this is congress were talking here and its dependent multi million dollar lobbying industry that goes on with it. Its not exactly a Republican or Democrat, Right or wrong type of thing, both parties push pork and the recipients are scattered throughout the political spectrum. Its Lobbying. The number of registered lobbyist in DC doubled to well over 30,000 from 2000 to2007. Lobbyist registered damn near 2 billion in fees last year. Its washington's legislative culture. Its a big game of give and take.

I think we all understand Obama is a politician, but I do believe that he has a better handle and understanding of the scope of his job than the previous administration. He has far more intellectual muscle behind him. Thats what I mean when I say his approach will be measured. After all, if this goes to S...., it will be his fault.

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I'm pumped. More government spending please.

If you want to read the bill go tohttp://heritage.org and read a little of it or the entire bill.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Secretary of State............ Cheney must have had his hand up her rear like a puppet. Yup, the evil Bush admin.....
Pretty much. Clinton was basing her position on the new "intel" that was tainted. The Senate might have failed their job of oversight, but that doesn't mean they weren't the victims of good marketing like the rest of us.

Also, Clinton was consistent in her remarks on the issue that something had to be done, but that unilateral action was not feasable option.

This part seems to get cut from all the quotes and videos. I wonder why?

-spence

If the libs beleive group think and faulty intelligence got us into Iraq, why is the bailout any different.
Apples and oranges. Sure there are hypothetical parallels, but at the end of the day the money, unecessary or necessary, is going to be spent on domestic projects with (promised) transparency to the people.

Also the size of the investment has been stated up front. The Bush Admin claimed Iraq would cost under 200M and be over in a flash...then SCOPE CREEP set in :doh:

-spence

but at the end of the day the money, unecessary or necessary, is going to be spent on domestic projects .


-spence

untrue

02/02/09 8000.62 8000.62 7867.37 293,885,384 7936.83 -64.03 -0.80%

Oh snap! How could this be. Don't they believe

January was the worst month in Dow history. I believe Buckman was redeemed.

January was the worst month in Dow history. I believe Buckman was redeemed.

In October of '08 the DOW on Oct 1 was at 10,831 and closed on Oct 30 at 9336 for a loss of 1,495 or 13.8%

In January of '09 the Dow on January 2 was at 9034 and closed on January 30 at 8000 for a loss of 1,034 or 11.4%

On January 16 (The Last Close before the Inauguration) the DOW closed at 8281 and closed yesterday at 7936 for aloss of 345 or 4.1%.

Just what was redeemed???

In October of '08 the DOW on Oct 1 was at 10,831 and closed on Oct 30 at 9336 for a loss of 1,495 or 13.8%

In January of '09 the Dow on January 2 was at 9034 and closed on January 30 at 8000 for a loss of 1,034 or 11.4%

On January 16 (The Last Close before the Inauguration) the DOW closed at 8281 and closed yesterday at 7936 for aloss of 345 or 4.1%.

Just what was redeemed???

Your'e right, I feel much better now. Thanks for the optimism.:smokin:

Hey, I didn't say things don't suck and probably will continue to suck for a while....I just stated the facts.

me too!

I know, I Didn't question your last post....can't argue numbers

untrue

You might not like how it would be spent, but please tell me how I'm wrong?

-spence

I think part of what you said will be true Spence. It's the money that will spent on programs(i.e. stop smoking campaigns, Acorn and the like) that will not stimulate anything but my anger, that I'm opposed to.

it will stimulate more votes for dems from urban population, unions and other victims the dems need in order to get elected