http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/106532/Wall-St.,-a-Financial-Epithet,-Stirs-Outrage

http://emac.blogs.foxbusiness.com/2009/02/02/crackdown-on-wall-street-the-perp-walks-are-coming/

and they'll be for 30 people out of the 500,000 that work in the industry

and they'll be for 30 people out of the 500,000 that work in the industry

True, but those seemingly smallish numbers account for much of the mayhem that took place. The buck stops at the CEO's and they will hopefully be held accountable. The boards are equally to blame too, given the conflicts of interest that are/were in place. One person can sit on mulitiple boards and provided they reciprocate with other companies boards, they can set and approve the huge salaries/bonuses for poor performance, etc and receive the same. All the while Joe stockholder foots the bill.
Bbbbbutttttttt, these folks(fiancial companies) are not unlike drug dealers, meaning there's addiction/demand for what they are selling. Enter the irresponsible/unknowing consumers AKA "drug users" who are equally to blame for this mess.

and they'll be for 30 people out of the 500,000 that work in the industry

Are the 500,000 possibly guilty? No? Then your point is moot.

-spence

Are the 500,000 possibly guilty? No? Then your point is moot.

-spence

my point - stop the need to point fingers and criminalize without understanding. the country is running around decrying evil wall street, why? it was ignorant and stupid of Obama to point the finger at Wall St. Did you read that JP Morgan didnt want the baliout money, the government forced it on them!

I was hoping our new president was a bright guy, but then again he is a lawyer and using his rationale, all lawyers are scum, talk about shameful.

Heres my analogy whihc seldome works out here, but here goes.

99.9% of the people that see the movie Jaws, come away saying the movie is about an evil shark that terrorizes a beach community. As a fisherman, I know that shark is just doing what sharks do, hunting and eating. It is not bad. When people get in the water, they're in the sharks territory and are potenital victims. So who do you blame for the deaths? The shark? The people who were swimming? Or the the town officials that should have banned swimming?

Right now what you are seeing is equivalent in the movie to all the yahoos in the water going out to kill all the sharks. But now its Wall St. And like in the movie, there will be useless slaughter and will set us back even further while we pursue the perceived villians.
The guilty MUST be punished, but lets make it a smart process and not victimize the hundreds of thousands of innocent "sharks" that keep this countyr working , create creative retirement and educational savings products and provide a critical service for the world. Without them, all you have is the government and social security.

but then again he is a lawyer and using his rationale, all lawyers are scum, talk about shameful.[/QUOTE]

Stupid statement. Just a re-direction of anger from YOUR sector which is finally under much needed scrutiny. Nothing like a good cleansing of an industry that has it's own fair share of scumbags as well.

but then again he is a lawyer and using his rationale, all lawyers are scum, talk about shameful.

Stupid statement. Just a re-direction of anger from YOUR sector which is finally under much needed scrutiny. Nothing like a good cleansing of an industry that has it's own fair share of scumbags as well.[/QUOTE]

I was using his rationale of labeling an entire industry, based on some scumbags. I dont really think that.

Stupid statement. Just a re-direction of anger from YOUR sector which is finally under much needed scrutiny. Nothing like a good cleansing of an industry that has it's own fair share of scumbags as well.

I was using his rationale of labeling an entire industry, based on some scumbags. I dont really think that.[/QUOTE]


Did I just commit conservative on conservative crime?

I think that article is more about hurt feelings than destroying wall st.....

If I'm not mistaken the reason these people are being let go is because their companies...., after they cut out the soy milk budget, free office supplies, and Bonuses down to a meager $112,000 a year,..... do not have the money to retain them. NOT because we are Blaming them for the Crisis. Now if the Big shots in the Big office would like to maybe roll back some of their multi million dollar stock options and bonuses into the company to retain these people and grow their business then maybe some of them can stay.

Now isn't it up to the companies to retain the best and lose the rest.....and if the rest wants to continue working on Wall st. they need to re-assert themselves and rise to the top, through Training and self sacrifice.

I feel bad for anybody that gets laid off...but why is Wall St any different from Home Depot or any of the other companies that had to lay off thousands.

I'm pretty sure that is Capitalism at work....The Cream rises to the Top.

you just misinterpretted my statment. I guess without Rove or Limbaugh to tell us how to think, we're kind of lost.

I think that article is more about hurt feelings than destroying wall st.....

If I'm not mistaken the reason these people are being let go is because their companies...., after they cut out the soy milk budget, free office supplies, and Bonuses down to a meager $112,000 a year,..... do not have the money to retain them. NOT because we are Blaming them for the Crisis. Now if the Big shots in the Big office would like to maybe roll back some of their multi million dollar stock options and bonuses into the company to retain these people and grow their business then maybe some of them can stay.

Now isn't it up to the companies to retain the best and lose the rest.....and if the rest wants to continue working on Wall st. they need to re-assert themselves and rise to the top, through Training and self sacrifice.

I feel bad for anybody that gets laid off...but why is Wall St any different from Home Depot or any of the other companies that had to lay off thousands.

I'm pretty sure that is Capitalism at work....The Cream rises to the Top.

agreed, but now the cream will leave because the government will limit how high they can rise to and how much they'll be paid.
I posted the article to demonstrate the stigma assoicated with an industry that very few did anything wrong and are being incorrectly blamed by the need for a convenient scapegoat.

Scapegoat is a very good term for what has been going on.

Where's the Cream going to Go?

It's just a "bottom up" crisis, right? Stupid people took out more than they could pay back and that's all there is to it.

I'm quite sure that after they have thier day in court, fiduciary trust - that cornerstone of the investing relationship - will be restored.

It's just a "bottom up" crisis, right? Stupid people took out more than they could pay back and that's all there is to it.

I'm quite sure that after they have thier day in court, fiduciary trust - that cornerstone of the investing relationship - will be restored.
Ouch...

I may have to compile the "best of Joe Lyons" soon. Of couse I'll add my own value so it won't be your property anymore, but you may be able to make some spare change at the book signings.

-spence

I haven't got much understanding of the wall street issues, but I do know this - It's a very difficult time to be self-employed right now with people having no confidence and not spending money. Money makes the world go around , but the merry-go-round stopped:( and it sucks.

All the chitbums who were greedy either in the banking,wall street,real estate or mortgage loan industries can all go to hell for all I care, screw em all.
When will this country ever learn?

I never did or never want my 401K or retirement to grow too rapidly, I'd rather see it grow steady, I can live without the huge up and down swings.

You know whats fiunny in this, Fox reported today that DOJ, justice dept. was going to start coming down hard on all the lawbreakers in the Wall Street mess. Then a couple of hours later a talking head from Obama's admin said he didn't think the current admin was going to push that issue to hard. So where does Obama get off saying who gets punished in anything or doesn't get punished. I guess it matters if you donate to someones campaign, maybe. I think its all:bs:

I haven't got much understanding of the wall street issues, but I do know this - It's a very difficult time to be self-employed right now with people having no confidence and not spending money. Money makes the world go around , but the merry-go-round stopped:( and it sucks.

All the chitbums who were greedy either in the banking,wall street,real estate or mortgage loan industries can all go to hell for all I care, screw em all.
When will this country ever learn?

I never did or never want my 401K or retirement to grow too rapidly, I'd rather see it grow steady, I can live without the huge up and down swings.

Slip, you sure have my sympathy - my wife and I say every day how happy we are that we finally had to euthanize our small business - even though it hurt - a couple of years ago - and we had done well with it.

I look at small businesses now and given the state of the economy, it's gotta be a real tough row to hoe - :hs:

For a guy to work hard and have to struggle is a bitter pill when you hear how those slime-balls took the money and ran like thieves in the night without any remorse.

It's small consolation but I've got a feeling they're eventually gonna get theirs the way things are looking.

In the meanwhile try to duck and cover as best you can til this bull**** rolls over us - sooner or later we'll pop back out the other side - hopefully it'll be sooner.

For a guy to work hard and have to struggle is a bitter pill when you hear how those slime-balls took the money and ran like thieves in the night without any remorse.

.

Thanks Crafty, I'll get thru somehow.
Maybe it's time for a career change, I sure hope not, I love what I do.

What I'd like to know is where is all the money and where did it go? or are they hording it and not spending it:huh: Not all wealthy people are thieves or scum but the ones that are sure do make it difficult on the rest of the world.

It's just a "bottom up" crisis, right? Stupid people took out more than they could pay back and that's all there is to it.

I'm quite sure that after they have thier day in court, fiduciary trust - that cornerstone of the investing relationship - will be restored.

you havent read a single word I've posted. Many, many factors contributed to the mess and CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS in VERY LARGE COMPANIES that have MAN, MANY, MANY business lines may have committed some type of fraud. You prosecute the individuals, not the industry. If you want to but into Wall St as scapegoats, go ahead. But realize you will miss some of the key lessons and ones that are not learned are doomed to be repeated. And it appears the savior Obama is buying into it too. By the way, may want to check the resume of the secretary of the treasury, I bet you'll find most of the names you are blaming on it.

I agree there is excess, but the Democrats are the root cause of the problem by hauling the bank execs in and forcing them to lend money to people who couldn't pay it back and in the process everone else piled on. Then they said (either Frank or Dodd who both sit ont he Senate Banking Comittee) "Don't worry you don't need the same level of equity because this is backed up by Fannie and Freddie" mean while Wall Streeters created a new security backed up by the US Gvt based on the previous statement and low and behold as people start to default there is a crisis.

We wouldn't be in this situation if the Government didn't mess with the free market.

Where's the Cream going to Go?

Example -

Bill is a Harvard Grad and works in sales for JP Morgan, his base salary is 100K, he travels 4 days a week, works weekends smoozing clients. He is an excellent salesmen and usually takes home an additional 500K in "bonus" money for the commissions on his sales. He couldnt tell you what a mortgage backed securty is becasue he sells bank custody services and nothing to do with the current crisis.
Take away Bills bonus and he makes 100K per year, factor in all the travel and weekends, and stress, Bill might make $25 an hour.

For 100k a year, Bill can go work for Brigham and Williams hospital as an adminsitrator for drug companies. His education more that qualifies him for the job, his salary will be 100K, but he leaves work at 5, is home every weekend and the stress is much less.

Bill took the job from Lenny, who graduated from UVM, as was not as polished as Bill. Lenny is now unemplyed. All the "good" jobs are now filled by people with ivy league degrees. Also unemploed is Bill's nanny, Bill's landscaper. Bill quit his golf club, quit his health club, sold his boat, etc.

But since Bill's wife does not work, he is now eligble for Obama's stimulus plan! He will receive a check for $1000 ! All is good in America!

"stupid people that borrowed more than they could pay back"...well yes Joe...but...dammit...STUPID lenders that lent it to them as well, just as guilty, in my book...whatever happened to banks that actually looked at the property, verified peoples income and debts, and based the desicion to lend on that!!....the greed of getting the "commsion on the loan"...the interest flowing....crippled the people that borrowed..and ultimitly the sham institutions that wrote the notes...and the high limit high interest credit cards..the EZ money, spend it mentality...dug us the huge hole, and it will take a long time to dig out of it...prolly longer than i have left on this planet....



gonna get worse, before it starts to get better, i think....

Right on Big K, I think De-Regulation began this whole mess, those who passed that bill and allowed it to happen are the culprits, all they saw was dollar signs for themselves = GREED!
It makes me sick.

There was verification and scrutinization back in December of 1988 when I bought my house, they looked at 2 years income, I had to show my savings of how I came up with the down payment(which was from hard work ,sacrificing and the tailend of a good economy) I didn't buy a house I couldn't afford,most people are responsible like that, but the past years some allow others to sway them and they end up with a mortgage they can't pay. I didn't trade up to some house I would have liked, I'd rather live within my means than be in debt. I'll probably live in this house all my life now. There was no first time homebuyer programs when I bought, but soon after there were plenty.
De-regulation was a huge mistake, it's time to fix the mess not form big government to spend more and more money we don't have. I thought the bailout was supposed to be for the housing crisis:huh: why are the polititions tacking on all sorts of programs to how the money is doled out? This country is whacked! We elect these nitwits and they get away without accountability. Maybe I'll move to Canada:fury::smash::wall:

Maybe Bill only gets $250k a year bonus and instead of $500k and sticks it out with JP Morgan....things turn around and Bill goes back to normalcy after a few years. Your article just said the Bonuses went down....not that they were eliminated.

Let's look at another Scenario...We'll take an IT guy and will Call him "Kevin". Kevin works for a company where he is the Only server/network guy there.

Kevin works until 3 am some nights fixing the servers and databases of people like Bill who don't know how to play well with their equipment. Some mornings Kevin's home phone rings from the Office in the UK and wakes his wife...he goes in at 4 AM to fix problems for these people. Kevin Works Weekends. Kevin does not make close to $100k a year and he does not recieve a Bonus, to help with the added stress of Weekends, late nights and early morning hours as well as the responsibility of all of the Corporate data.

Kevin keeps network running at over 99% availability for 7 years....only misses 1 day of work in said 7 years. Kevin then gets laid off so Company doesn't have to spend $40k on new server room, Bill continues to make his $500k Bonus.

Kevin has NO sympathy for Bill, Lenny, Bill's nanny, Bill's landscaper...or the employees at the Marina, Health or Golf Clubs. Kevin worries about his wife and kids....period

if Bill decides to Go to Brigham and Womens to be an administrator then So be It.....he can also go to any number of Companies, Even other Investment firms that will appreciate his Cream of the Crop Status, and do Sales and work hard to keep his lifestyle.....Once Again Capitalism at Work.

all good points, but my response is based on limiting bonuses and salaries for Wall St. It has downstream implications and punishes those that had nothing to with the downturn. All though you have no sympathy for Bill's nanny, etc, you WILL be paying for them via the bailout. I think its better to have them work vs have them receive $.

My advice for Kevin is to get out of IT. Its a thankless job. :wall:

Kevin is too old and been doing it to long to get out of IT....

Will the Stimulus package pay to retrain him?

Kevin is too old and been doing it to long to get out of IT....

Will the Stimulus package pay to retrain him?

Not if you're white..............:jester::jester::jester:

Obama just announced salary and bonus restrictions for employees of companies taking TARP money. I guess he did not read anything RIJimmy wrote either.

Obama just announced salary and bonus restrictions for employees of companies taking TARP money. I guess he did not read anything RIJimmy wrote either.


Maybe next, he'll seize their property? I wonder what part of the constitution gives him the right to do that? Lets feed the fervor of the masses, it worked for Stalin.

Let the government take all the money, and redistribute it as it sees fit. Wall St is evil, you dont need their 401ks, you dont need their investments. The government will help you, the government will help you, the government will help you......... pretty soon it will be one shop town, the US of Obama will be the only source......

My advice for Kevin is to get out of IT. Its a thankless job. :wall:

In my opinion, its the best move Kevin could make if the job isn't a good fit for him. Obviously there are drawbacks, but Kevin may want to consider something with a lower starting comp, but with a greater fit for his lifestyle. Is it difficult to do? YES. Impossible to do? NO.
I just attended a great leadership workshop where the presenter emphasized "getting out of your comfort zone" in order to realize your maximum potential. In other words, don't look for excuses not to do something, find a way to make the changes you need. Don't let age,routine, or the old "I've always done it this way" mentality stand in your way.

President Obama - Last year's "shameful" handout of $18 billion in Wall Street bonuses "is exactly the kind of disregard for the costs and consequences of their actions that brought about this crisis: a culture of narrow self-interest and short-term gain at the expense of everything else," Obama said to reporters at the White House.

This is a MORONIC and IGNORANT statement and backs up all my banter on a scapegoat and blaming wall st.

President OBAMA - We're going to be taking a look at broader reforms so that executives are compensated for sound risk management and rewarded for growth measured over years, not just days or weeks," Obama said.

Looks like he is reaching past TARP? So the President is goign to be decinding how executives get compensated? C-O-M-M-U-N-I-S-M

If I'm not mistaken both of those statements pertain to companies that took our Tax Dollars to bail them out.....not businesses that are doing things on there own

Damn Skippy there needs to be some regulations put in when they are dealing with our tax dollars.....

I see it as welfare reform.

You take Government money you get Government pay End of Story... You can't be a capitalist only when you are profitable..

I dont think you guys undertsand what "take government money" meant. This money was not meant to "keep the lights on".

Is the Big O also imposing the same on the big 3 automakres?

rememember, Im in the camp of let them fail and against the bailout.

rememember, Im in the camp of let them fail and against the bailout.

I'm in the same camp as you.......

step one - the banks getting bailout

step two -
"Possible steps for the future include requiring compensation committees on all public financial institutions to review and disclose strategies for aligning compensation with sound risk-management."

Scary stuff.

As I understand it the comp restrictions would apply to the auto companies that took federal funds. The concern about government getting out of their jurisdiction is understandable but they are acting no differently than a bank would if it was making a loan to a distressed entity. No bank would make such a loan to a company that was bankrupt without imposing stringent conditions and covenants on the company going forward until the debt was paid off.
I do however disagree with the admin on the restrictions they are placing on the banks because they are meaningless and do not address the underlying problem. The problem has two aspects. The first is that compensation at investment banks is too big a percentage of earnings. Currently I believe most of the banks pay over 40% of their earnings as comp (base and bonus). This was fine when they were private partnerships and it was their own money at risk. In a corporation their liability is limited. The second point is that the boards of these companies have no adequate way to supervise either their activities or their comp numbers since they are picked by management and they are solely dependent on management for information. This has resulted in the management of these entities having all the benefits of the upside and the downside has been sold to the shareholders. This is not a model that rewards prudent risk taking. What the president should do is to set a sliding scale to bring pay down by having a requirement that any entity licensed by the Feds as a B/D, CPO, IA or CTA etc., and any affiliated entities of their corporate family can not pay more than 40% (currently around 46-48%) of earnings as compensation. This would go down by 1.5% a year until it was at 35%. Shares received as comp would be held for a period of time say 3 years and then paid in tranches thereafter. There should also be a limitation on the top 25 people in any organization that their pay could not go above 20% over the previous year's comp. The money not paid out in comp could go back to the shareholders as dividends which would make the banks a more attractive investment while keeping the value of the workers deferred comp high.
Different point but I do not hear much about it is the number of jobs the banks sent overseas to be outsourced during the 15 years. These bankers were paid a bonus of component of which was based on the saving (earnings) of moving jobs from Americans and sending them overseas. At the very least as part of this bailout this practice should stop.