Chinese crap has got me grumpy, I am so sick of everything that used to be made here in THIS country now being manufactured overseas in China at a lesser cost AND much lower quality. Why buy something if it doesn't do the job or hold up?:wall: Has this country sold out? :uhuh: yep we have. Years ago woodworking machinery started being made in Taiwan and it was cheap, sure because they pay workers peanuts and the quality showed. They got better as the years went by and now all machinery that used to be made here is now made in China::lossinit: It really pisses me off. One example of a company fron Canada that made some competitive stuff has gone to china also, but they still make some machines in Canada but they cost twice as much. One American company = Oliver for years made great sturdy stuff, now made in China, sure they do the wiring and motors here in the states but you still get the rest made in freakin' China so why such a markup?they charge way more than other companies with similar crap from china:wall: I get so disgusted with everything. I bought a drill press last week thinking I was buying from an American company because that's what is leads you to believe on their website ( this is the only page left of their site :( http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:UtqunYLyn84J:fisch-woodworking.com/drillpresswtilttable.shtml+fisch+drill+press&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a ) the guy at Beaver said the company Fisch went out of business last week
I get it home and I see on the box = made in China :eek5::nailem:
Sure, just another kick in the ass :hs: It's a Fisch 17-1/2" drill press and it is NOT made in America. If I had known that I would have chosen to go with a Delta knowing they are made you know where also:hs:

What a bunch of :bs:

I don't have the answers but I can see the writing on the wall. I try to look for older American machinery but since they are wanted so much they go for premium dollars. I'm just a little guy and can't justify huge expenses for high dollar machines so I settle for crap sometimes. The smaller power tools I buy are not chinese, I spend the dough on stuff like Fesstool and Bosch.
Even every day stuff is made in China now, you can't get away from it from plumbing supplies to auto parts to knockdown cheap-ass chinese cabinetry :hs: sure put us out of business :deadhorse::behead::smash: These companies selling this chinese crap cabinets even solicit me asking if I will carry their line of stock cabinets some assembly required WTF, do you think I'm stupid, I refuse to give in and sell customers that junk, if people want cardboard cabinets, go to the depot and get it, they have it right on the shelves. It's hurting everyone in the country the more we import their crap.

Oh sure it saves you some bucks as the paying customer but in the long run we are only hurting ourselves and I don't see this country waking up to that fact any time soon.

Give me back the America I love and once knew :(

Well said Slip! Maybe some wealthy folks will start putting the pride back in America and start some companies where all the work is done here!

http://smileyonline.free.fr/images/gif/bravo/vignette/thumbnails/1036535672_gif.gifhttp://smileyonline.free.fr/images/gif/bravo/vignette/thumbnails/1036535672_gif.gif

ya right Larry :rollem: let's start with Walmart , they are rich:whackin:

I say the answer is fix the laws on trade and even things out for starters. Our own government only sees dollars signs for themselves and their friends :chatter:(
STOP IMPORTING CRAP

I'm gonna have a garden this year so I can grow my own food, who know where our food comes from.

i see it everyday in my business as well. toyota has ruined the car industry. all you have to do is go to mikes this weekend and you will see at least 3 tundras outside. it kills me that people buy this crap. bunch of hippocrates talking trash about foreign plugs when parked outside is thier toyota or other jap crap. makes me laugh.

NAFTA was a mistake! I knew it then and I know it now....so does everyone else!

NAFTA was a mistake! I knew it then and I know it now....so does everyone else!


not for the rich! You know.. the ones who run this country by paying off congressmen and senators..
they laughed themselves to the bank off of NAFTA.

I voted for Ross Perot
the man was a real businessman and knew what needed fixing, too bad he lost.
I hate made in Mexico junk also, one of their junk timing chain cover gaskets that Ford saved 20 cents probably, cost me an engine on my van 7 years ago :smash:

Ya Daryl, some of those jap cars are made here in this country and it's the kind of product that is just a combination type thing now I guess. It does hurt that the big 3 have hurt themselves falling behind the times.

not for the rich! You know.. the ones who run this country by paying off congressmen and senators..
they laughed themselves to the bank off of NAFTA.

And Ross Perot had the answer to that also, he was gonna get rid of all that, and go against nafta too.

i see it everyday in my business as well. toyota has ruined the car industry. all you have to do is go to mikes this weekend and you will see at least 3 tundras outside. it kills me that people buy this crap. bunch of hippocrates talking trash about foreign plugs when parked outside is thier toyota or other jap crap. makes me laugh.
You sound like the lard ass that cried that McDonalds made him fat. The truth is this- The American Car industry killed the American Car industry by producing crap for the past 20 years while the Japanese worked their asses off to produce a product that was reliable, good looking and was what the American consumer was looking for.

And was gas efficient!

i see it everyday in my business as well. toyota has ruined the car industry. all you have to do is go to mikes this weekend and you will see at least 3 tundras outside. it kills me that people buy this crap. bunch of hippocrates talking trash about foreign plugs when parked outside is thier toyota or other jap crap. makes me laugh.




"Toyota has ruined the car industry"
You must be joking !!!
The 3 big american car makers and the friggin greedy UAW hung themselves by putting out CRAP products for years and the UAW unions being so greedy !

Give me back the America I love and once knew

What happened to Made in America?

Has this country sold out? yep we have.

you still get the rest made in freakin' China so why such a markup?


Slip,
It is ridiculous how these companies are getting products and raw materials from overseas and still marking up so much! I have a small tackle company, some of the members here know me. ALL my raw materials are U.S. made and of U.S. origin. When I was starting up, I spent a lot of time tracking down suppliers and making sure all materials were US made. It costs me on the bottom line, because most consumers don't care about "Made in the USA", or highest quality, all they care about is here and now and lowest price. When they b*tch about cheap quality I ask where was it made? They get sarcasm and no sympathy from me.

And speaking of raw materials, it's because of corporate greed that the big 3 American auto makers have to buy much, if not most of the raw materials and sub-components to build American cars. They took full advantage of NAFTA and outsourced (as in outside of the US) so much and it's now biting them in the ass. Most of those suppliers locked themselves in with ironclad contracts so that if GM (just for example) decided to buy, say raw metal as another example, from a US supplier instead of the foreign supplier in the contract, they stand to get their asses sued big time.

i see it everyday in my business as well. toyota has ruined the car industry. all you have to do is go to mikes this weekend and you will see at least 3 tundras outside. it kills me that people buy this crap. bunch of hippocrates talking trash about foreign plugs when parked outside is thier toyota or other jap crap. makes me laugh.

When you're done laughing, answer these questions for me:
1. What country are Tundras (and Nissan Titans) made in?
2. What countries are Ford and Dodge trucks made in?

I think you'll be surprised...

the exact responses i expected. i need to stay off this subject, i hate discussing it. sorry i brought it up.

In fairness, its difficult to adhere to a strict "Buy American" attitude as everything that is available no longer is strict "American". You want the best for your hard earned dollar these days and unfortunately the quality of say a Sony is head and shoulders better than a Zenith for instance!! It is what it is and it may take decades to reverse the trend that corporate America and "world politics" has created.

I'd bet money plug parts aren't coming where you think they're coming from. :doh:

Good example Likwid......VMC hooks! Everyone uses them as they are considered the best but they are made in France!:hee:

about the richest countries pledging to help the world economy rebound
but at the same time their crying foul and protectionism is unfair :bc:

almost as if.... we'll help you out....but you can't touch the trade agreements... they're off limits..

and here we are on this thread all saying "hardly anything is being manufactured in America anymore" ... scratchin our heads


the bottom line was :

quote: The question is no more to convince the governments to move today, but for them to implement the policies they need to manage," Strauss-Kahn said. He also warned of the dangers of protectionism, which he said may still come "through the back door, especially in the financial sector."

thinking about all the trillions of dollars we've given to foreign countries over the last 50+ years
and then we have to take that crap...is so totally disgusting~ ! :yak4:

i see it everyday in my business as well. toyota has ruined the car industry. all you have to do is go to mikes this weekend and you will see at least 3 tundras outside. it kills me that people buy this crap. bunch of hippocrates talking trash about foreign plugs when parked outside is thier toyota or other jap crap. makes me laugh.


What are you talking about? You haven't heard of this thing called a global economy?

Most Toyotas sold here in the US are made here in the US. The Tundra is assembled in San Antonio, Texas; the engines are built in Huntsville, Alabama.

You might argue that the corporate headquarters are in Japan but Toyota employs over 30,000 auto workers in the US.

My Nissan Titan was built in Canton, Mississippi. My Subaru Outback was built in Lafayette, Indiana. My previous Chevrolet Silverado was built in Oshawa, Ontario, Canada.

They took full advantage of NAFTA and outsourced (as in outside of the US) so much and it's now biting them in the ass.
If it wasn't for NAFTA a lot of these automotive suppliers would move their engineernig entirely out of the country. It's precisely because they can manufacture in Mexico and contract engineering work to India that allows them to keep a US operation (which employees Americans) running.

NAFTA isn't perfect, but it's not evil.

-spence

Corporate profits are driven by lower cost production

In a global economy all parties get to play. If a company is able to get your job done by someone who is willing to do it more cheaply, what happens?

Your job goes to the lowest bidder and your lookin for other work, now they import those lower paid people into the US too.

Did they ever put those overseas operators in the Wendy's Drive thrus? No, hey imported the person to stand there and do it at the minimum wage.

quote: Paul Wood. "Global companies go to global solutions.''

Maybe we need a new philosophy towards companies that only want to do business with America and are not out to compete globally.

they are in Business to help America first and foremost.
Not the world.


if that's protectionism ---- then so be it. :)

If it wasn't for NAFTA a lot of these automotive suppliers would move their engineernig entirely out of the country. It's precisely because they can manufacture in Mexico and contract engineering work to India that allows them to keep a US operation (which employees Americans) running.

NAFTA isn't perfect, but it's not evil.

-spence
And that same logic is exactly why I may be loosing my job this year. Because corporate wants to increase profit margins, the decided to follow a path of planned demise of a product that still sells strong here in the US and move those production lines to factories in other countries. So twist that logic any way you want spence. 215 of us will be laid off in the next year or two. Oh, and they want us to volunteer to train the workers in the countries where the equipment is being shipped. Oh, and would you mind leaving your family for a month or two to travel and help start things up? Screw that. :af:

Spence....you are sometimes so insightful and other times blind! NAFTA opened the door to the situation we are in now. You really believe the things our politicians tell us don't you?:laughs:

And that same logic is exactly why I may be loosing my job this year. Because corporate wants to increase profit margins, the decided to follow a path of planned demise of a product that still sells strong here in the US and move those production lines to factories in other countries. So twist that logic any way you want spence. 215 of us will be laid off in the next year or two. Oh, and they want us to volunteer to train the workers in the countries where the equipment is being shipped. Oh, and would you mind leaving your family for a month or two to travel and help start things up? Screw that. :af:

Happened at several major financial institutions here in the BOS area, the long trip was nice, now the unemployment line is a littler longer here and the issue now takes 4 times as long to resolve.

"Toyota has ruined the car industry"
You must be joking !!!
The 3 big american car makers and the friggin greedy UAW hung themselves by putting out CRAP products for years and the UAW unions being so greedy !


How do you blame the union for bad engineering? Like the guy assembling headrests has a say in anything.I agree the unions are trying to get the workers more $$ and better benny's .They should be smart like all the rest of the big business in this country.Fire the Union and employ illegal immigrants for less than minimum wage.Then you'd be happy buying made in the USA products ?:conf:

I was talking to a guy at work who is now an American citizen and a big fan of Obama. He said that this Stimulus bill is great and Obama is doing a great thing like FDR did during the depression. I know this guy is proud to have become a citizen , but I had to point out that just about everything we could lay our eyes on in the store we work was made in America by American manufacturers with legal American workers. I also pointed out that the Depression had 15% unemployment for 7 years of FDRs administration and only a nutcase from Germany and a bunch of facists from Japan changed all that.

How do you blame the union for bad engineering? Like the guy assembling headrests has a say in anything.I agree the unions are trying to get the workers more $$ and better benny's .They should be smart like all the rest of the big business in this country.Fire the Union and employ illegal immigrants for less than minimum wage.Then you'd be happy buying made in the USA products ?:conf:

Its not the "bad engineering" so much as the overall costs. When a GM or Ford needs to keep a model for 7 years between redesigns to realize a profit on that model and a Toyota or Honda can go 4-5 years between major redesigns. If it costs 2 billion dollars to design a car - forget building it or the parts - and a Japanese manufacturer can get that back in 33% less time they can spend on more and faster engineering.

Americans, can build and engineer fine. They have also learned lots from their mistakes of the 70s and 80s, not foolproof but significantly better with a very tight quality gap, but from a labor costs they've been fighting with one hand behind their back for some time... (I still can't explain though why I hear Power Steering whine from a new Ford or GM, WTF? )

I've had 5 new American built vehicles (4 Fords + 1 Chevy) from the 90s and 2000s and 3 Toyotas in the late 80s and I have been extremely please will ALL of these vehicles. In the past 11 + years I've been putting my money where my mouth is and happily buying American.

I would suggest some of the people beyotchin about it buy a domestic vehicle or at least one that is build here (surprisingly high amount)....

One thought about the Global economy though, agree or not agree, it is believed that the integrated global economies have prevented regional or perhaps larger wars. For example, Pakistan -v- India, and China -v- Taiwan/US. Less likely to kick off war if it is bad for business (of course, if business is bad :eek5: )

Its not the "bad engineering" so much as the overall costs. When a GM or Ford needs to keep a model for 7 years between redesigns to realize a profit on that model and a Toyota or Honda can go 4-5 years between major redesigns. If it costs 2 billion dollars to design a car - forget building it or the parts - and a Japanese manufacturer can get that back in 33% less time they can spend on more and faster engineering.

Americans, can build and engineer fine. They have also learned lots from their mistakes of the 70s and 80s, not foolproof but significantly better with a very tight quality gap, but from a labor costs they've been fighting with one hand behind their back for some time... (I still can't explain though why I hear Power Steering whine from a new Ford or GM, WTF? )

I've had 5 new American built vehicles (4 Fords + 1 Chevy) from the 90s and 2000s and 3 Toyotas in the late 80s and I have been extremely please will ALL of these vehicles. In the past 11 + years I've been putting my money where my mouth is and happily buying American.

I would suggest some of the people beyotchin about it buy a domestic vehicle or at least one that is build here (surprisingly high amount)....

One thought about the Global economy though, agree or not agree, it is believed that the integrated global economies have prevented regional or perhaps larger wars. For example, Pakistan -v- India, and China -v- Taiwan/US. Less likely to kick off war if it is bad for business (of course, if business is bad :eek5: )


All good points.So the supposed high wages they pay the Union guys effects the overall price of the vehicle ,which effects the amount of profit the company makes ,which in turn effects how often new vehicles can be engineered and old redesigned.I guess it could be a legit excuse if the numbers added up on a much higher level.If not it would be just another ploy put out to try and fool the public into believing it's all the evil unions fault:af: .I may have to look deeper into this problem and see what I can dig up.

to build a new car.... that's CRAP!! not that your saying ADAM

but that it costs that much... i know, i know dies and molds
and all that....

but hey, many Americans are converting cars to all electric inside their own garages for $7000.00 bucks with readily available parts.

Fire the Union and employ illegal immigrants for less than minimum wage.Then you'd be happy buying made in the USA products ?:conf:

I doubt that.... because i don't believe the car companies would lower the price if it cost them less $$ cash per vehicle to assemble them .

I doubt that.... because i don't believe the car companies would lower the price if it cost them less $$ cash per vehicle to assemble them .

You know that for sure!They would pocket the profits just the same and complain they are paying them too much.Then say the price per vehicle,bla bla bla would end up burying the company in the long run and they would blame the workers.It's the blame game at it's best involving big $$.The truth is they make poor decisions when it comes to investing the $$ in the future of the company so they are looking for a scapegoat and in most cases they blame it on others instead of admitting they screwed up.When was the last time you heard a big company admit they screwed up ?They don't ever,it's easier to put the blame on someone else for the problems they've caused.:splat::cputin::wavey::bl:

How do you blame the union for bad engineering? Like the guy assembling headrests has a say in anything.I agree the unions are trying to get the workers more $$ and better benny's .They should be smart like all the rest of the big business in this country.Fire the Union and employ illegal immigrants for less than minimum wage.Then you'd be happy buying made in the USA products ?:conf:



Never said I blamed the UAW for bad engineering ! The engineers get that blame, I said they were "greedy"
On average they make $70 + and hr to work on an assembly line , I wouldn't call that even close to minimum wage, then there is all the retirees collecting ridiculous pensions !

Its not the "bad engineering" so much as the overall costs. When a GM or Ford needs to keep a model for 7 years between redesigns to realize a profit on that model and a Toyota or Honda can go 4-5 years between major redesigns. If it costs 2 billion dollars to design a car - forget building it or the parts - and a Japanese manufacturer can get that back in 33% less time they can spend on more and faster engineering.

Americans, can build and engineer fine. They have also learned lots from their mistakes of the 70s and 80s, not foolproof but significantly better with a very tight quality gap, but from a labor costs they've been fighting with one hand behind their back for some time... (I still can't explain though why I hear Power Steering whine from a new Ford or GM, WTF? )

I've had 5 new American built vehicles (4 Fords + 1 Chevy) from the 90s and 2000s and 3 Toyotas in the late 80s and I have been extremely please will ALL of these vehicles. In the past 11 + years I've been putting my money where my mouth is and happily buying American.

I would suggest some of the people beyotchin about it buy a domestic vehicle or at least one that is build here (surprisingly high amount)....

One thought about the Global economy though, agree or not agree, it is believed that the integrated global economies have prevented regional or perhaps larger wars. For example, Pakistan -v- India, and China -v- Taiwan/US. Less likely to kick off war if it is bad for business (of course, if business is bad :eek5: )




Gotta disagree on many points here John.

As the saying was for years in the industry with the big 3 american auto makers
"Make them last as long as the average auto loan" then they start falling apart and they keep you coming back!
That mentality worked with older generations (especially anyone alive during WW2) but those days are long gone.

You know there is a town in China named America, China. So some of the things that say made in America, well lets just say might not be.

You know there is a town in China named America, China. So some of the things that say made in America, well lets just say might not be.

That I can believe ! I hear they make wood plugs in that town.....

Give me back the America I love and once knew :(

Me too Slip, but we have a whole generation that doesn't know what America was really about. :wall:

When Moral Correctness was replaced by Political Correctness, that was the beginning of the end, imho.

There's plenty of that in the other generations also Dave, I'm afraid. :(
but you are right, the morals have dropped off quite a bit.
The me generation and I want it now people have no understanding.

When Moral Correctness was replaced by Political Correctness, that was the beginning of the end, imho.

an astute observation very adeptly put into words Dave

the only thing wrong with it....is

i wanted it ten seconds after Slipknot posted this thread :grins:

The me generation and I want it now people have no understanding.

"Give me back the America I love and once knew"

:angel:

Ain't nothin free. :hihi:

http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2009/02/17/does_the_united_states_make_anything_anymore/?page=1

The U.S. by far remains the world's leading manufacturer by value of goods produced. It hit a record $1.6 trillion in 2007 -- nearly double the $811 billion in 1987. For every $1 of value produced in China's factories, America generates $2.50.

"Give me back the America I love and once knew"

:angel:

Ain't nothin free. :hihi:

:agree: But,no amount of $$ could ever bring back the America i knew.

It was based, among other things, on a Man's word was as good as his bond.

On average they make $70 + and hr to work on an assembly line , I wouldn't call that even close to minimum wage, then there is all the retirees collecting ridiculous pensions !


Ron that is a misconception that the big three management uses to explain away why they are doing so bad. They are lumping in the cost of all benefits health insurance, disability, unemployment, retirement costs of current, and past employees. Those guys on the line might be making about 25- 40 and hour. Do you think that is unreasonable? I sure don't.

Why is it ok for some people to make craploads of money, and not ok for others. Why is it ok for a doctor to make a ton of dough? Because he know how to fix you. Why can't a guy who knows how to build a car be paid well?


Here is something to chew on. For years Ford has been using aluminum body parts on cars and trucks. Hoods, tailgates, liftgates etc. They have known that the process they use to paint them doesn't work. Why have they not fixed this problem. It starts out with the paint bubbling, then it oxidizes, and you think great my truck is rusting. Only problem is the truck is only 4-7 years old. The warranty only covers "rust through" , no hole no warranty covered repair. $800 to repair and repaint. Do you think that is a good product?

I have no problem with someone getting paid good money, enough to support themselves and their families, for what they do. I have a problem with people making millions off of the backs of the worker bees.

Those guys on the line might be making about 25- 40 and hour. Do you think that is unreasonable? I sure don't.

$52,000 - $83,000 a year to put the same fender on a car one after another on an assembly line......I do think that is a little unreasonable.

I have no problem with someone getting paid good money, enough to support themselves and their families, for what they do. I have a problem with people making millions off of the backs of the worker bees.

I also agree with that too.....that is why the auto industry is in need of a makeover