I have read MANY striper books/publications over the past few years...
Everything I read says "dark/black" plugs at night except around the full moon... Every how to, article, opinion, always states dark at night... yet most Photos I see published, posted, circulated usually have a white plug/swimmer attached to the maw of a bass... I had much better luck this season on white at night, even around the new moon DARK nights... (esp. tattoo sea pup) it doesnt add up... intentional false-steering info? maybe many publications and opinions are rigid in their approach and still recite what killed 'em in 1983? Who knows... I know black works at night, but you'd think you'd hear more about light colors at night based on my success and others (many night shots with a light plug). I'm not really sure there's a question here... Chalk it up to cabin fever...

I always figured a tackle shop employee dreamed that one up as an easy answer for customers asking questions about what to use and when.

and see a silhouette,,,,
and some of those white plugs might be glow plugs
or maybe they are easier to see...

sometimes it's their color of the day that's preferred .....

I think the real issue is that not many people buy or fish black plugs. They work just fine, but building confidence to fish them is hard and white is probably a more versatile color. The "dogma" you cite comes from freshwater bass fishing I believe.....supposedly a black jitterbug on a dark night is hard to beat.

I have no problem buying black and have seen many bags filled with mostly black. That being said there is always some whit as well

I heard something and tried it, go in a pool at night in the pitch black dark with a mask on hold a black plug up over you while you are below it in the water, you will see the silhouette of the dark plug just fine compared to the surroundings.

I like blurple at night but have done fine with white or lighter colors also. Sometimes when some moon is showing,olive is the color the bass want, other times they only hit blackchrome.

I slayed all last season at night be it new moon, full moon and everything in between on my bunker pattern! On many of those nights when you would figure a black plug should have been working I would switch over and get nothing! Switch back to bunker and it was game on again! I have seen a few nights where the only color they would take was black or blurple....BBJ remembers one such night...right Fred?

I have read MANY striper books/publications over the past few years...
Everything I read says "dark/black" plugs at night except around the full moon... Every how to, article, opinion, always states dark at night... yet most Photos I see published, posted, circulated usually have a white plug/swimmer attached to the maw of a bass... I had much better luck this season on white at night, even around the new moon DARK nights... (esp. tattoo sea pup) it doesnt add up... intentional false-steering info? maybe many publications and opinions are rigid in their approach and still recite what killed 'em in 1983? Who knows... I know black works at night, but you'd think you'd hear more about light colors at night based on my success and others (many night shots with a light plug). I'm not really sure there's a question here... Chalk it up to cabin fever...

My friend, ya read what everyone says, than you use what works for ya. I go by what has worked for me over the years, it just seems to work, for me.
I think green.

that Nature uses to protect each species ... over time it adapts

the most dramatic examples are the octopus, the chameleon,
and flounder that can blend right in....to their surroundings...

Fish use starlight to get their bearings...too ...all animals do

and from being around horses for many years
i know that they absolutely freak out if put in complete blackness...
and they need a light bulb on or have to see the stars.

when the sky is over cast with clouds AT NIGHT
a dark plug whether its Dark GREEN , blurple, or Black
can been seen on the surface or just below the surface
against the grey background of the clouds from below
....or starlight too
with bait fish knowing they can leap to safety into the air and
sometimes escape....

I have always subscribed to the basic principle of white, black or yellow as a base/dominant color for striped bass plugs. That being said I have had experiences when chartruese, flo orange, chrome and other combos have been the ticket to success.

Back in the late 70's I was fishing with old Man Mac Reed on Nauset one night, I was driving his International Scout as he was then in his 70's and didn't see to well with the lights off on a dark night. I was 19 yrs. old. Anyway, we are going along the beach and not doing anything but he kept saying to me as he rubbed the side of his face with his weatherbeaten hand and said, "son,(he called evryone "son"), I believe there are fish here but we don't have what they want I suppose". He mentioned sand eels and that sand eels would surely take them (he always brought up sand eels as bait) but then he made me stop the truck and he got out and went to the back and rumaged around and took out a box with Rebel packaging and in it was a dozen pinl mackerel 6" wind cheater F-80 rebels.

He snapped one on and walked down to the foam and cast it into the dark surf. He was on instantly and called for me to drag his 30 pounder up to the truck ( when you fished with him you always dragged his fish up to his truck, he was too feeble to do it himself)

I snapped on a blue and silver one from my bucket of plugs but no takers while he was on again. I switched to a pink mackerel and almost as soon as it hit the water I was on. I couldn't beleive it, there was no moon, nothing to illuminate the color pattern but that plug caught all the fish that night no matter if we (I) switched. I still have a few from that night that I treasure and we caught with them several times after that night. I think TC had something to do with #^&#^&#^&#^& Pleska getting that color made up.

True story.

I would still like someone to explain that to me.

I think the basic colors work, white, black, blue, yellow and a combination of those. Other colors work well too. Parrot, radioactve, and black/orange do not really look like anything in nature but some nights and days they are tops. Also, pink is a great color. You should have seen the bass taken on pink Rebels, Gibbs and SS needles on the Cape and BI in the 70 and 80's on that shade. It is my all time favorite color in a needle fish plug. Finally, I catch alot of fish on very dark nights on light and white colored plugs. Look at the bone colored Redfin. It is the first plug I'll put on when it's pitch black. Black is super too on a black evening. I've also catch a sh*t load of bass on a black Slug-go on a bright full moon night. So a surfcaster has to expeirement and get confidence in plugs and colors. And don't believe that old axiom for one minute.

I would still like someone to explain that to me.

Bring that Pink plug to PLUGFEST flaptail....

i'm no expert... Steve but i think what your referring to and correct me if i'm wrong.... but the fish not having eyelids change which light receptors in their eyes they use involuntarily at night, then they are using a black and white color scheme to identify their prey... whereas the pink color resembles
bait more closely than any other color.... at that light level...

read here... about cone cells and rod cells in their eye

Quote:
There are two types of receptor cells in the retina that are used, depending on light levels: rod cells and cone cells. Each type sends signals to the brain describing any image that is flashed on the retina. The cone cells are the color receptors of the fish and are used in daytime or whenever the light source is brighter than one foot-candle. At night, or when the light level falls below one foot-candle, fish use the rod cells, which are ultra light sensitive receptors. Rod cells are about 30 times more sensitive than the cones but they detect and record only black and white.

maybe there's a camera device that measures in foot candles
the available light.........Crafty would know....

Has anyone tried same time-same place experiments with, say, a Danny in all white, all black, and black top white belly to approximate a "lateral line"?

And if you were going to try that, is there a concensus on where the black and white border (lateral line) should be? About 1/3 down from the top, maybe?

When you're new to something, you tend to try dumb things and ask dumb questions---oh, well, thanks for your patience!

Jay

I hate black.It's so simple.I like to give the fish a chance..You know why you don't see lots of custom plugs in Black.It's because it's boring to paint.Psst,psst,pssst and your done.Where's the fun in that..Try to get a black Danny from Ryan Smith.It took him years to paint a white plug..
Colors will take a different hue in the the black of night.Take a school bus bomber and hold it at a arms length on a dark moon. Tell me what color it looks like.I'll save ya the trouble.To me it looks olive..No I'm not color blind.
I have interesting take on color one I never see mentioned.With the talk of LMB fishing this is something I figured out while doing so.I used to throw dark lures in the daytime late in the season.With the abundance of the yoy bait the dark colors made a smaller profile.Which in turn matched the hatch better.IMO....I think at times when the bait is small perhaps a plug like a pearl bomber on a dark night makes a smaller profile..I have experienced some of the best fishing of my life.Blitz like, every cast with a pearl bomber.In the darkest of places on the darkest nights..
More micro details.It's all about the details.
With that said I have no idea why they hit Parrot..
Well l have a idea...For instance on BI it can get really dark and parrot is king. I think the parrot takes on the same olive appearance as school bus where there is more ambient light...
Now this of course is all based on fish that don't see colors the same way us humans do...It's just food for thought.
I think when it comes down to it.When you throw what you have confidence in.Your bound to score with it.In turn you gain more confidence..And so on, and so on..

It has been a few years since I read those fish sight books but I recall seeing in several places that the fact is that at night all bass cannot see color so it really shouldn't matter. They have both rods and cones that transition at dawn and dusk where they can see both. During the day they can see color, However, the sight of bass at night is much better (cells are something like 90X more sensitive to light) than during the day. As I said at dawn and dusk both rods and cones are both active and they can see very well then, one author believes that could be why the fish seem to be more active during those periods, (dawn and dusk) as he feels they have a real advantage then. He also said moonlight does not count as daylight.

Personally, I believe profile, action and contrast, in that order, are more important than blue red green or yellow . But if you find that they are only hitting your chartreuse and magenta with green eyes and a white bucktail with glow hooks...then I would fish that plug.:hee:
That said, bass eat just about anything and everything, I mean what haven't you seen in a bass' stomach? IMO if it looks like they can eat it and they are hungry they will.

You know it was only a matter of time before the whole cones of the eye,retina scientific stuff came into play.These are theories.Bass don't speak so we really have no idea what they can or cannot see.While I generally try to keep it simple when it comes to color.(Because there's only so many tubes in my bag)
Yes SM did mention it..And I will add...The fact of the matter is color can at times be very important.If you ask me this refutes all the scientific hypotheses on the subject..If you refuse to acknowledge this you could be the one not catching.

The definitive book on the subject is probably Through the Fish's Eye by Mark Sosin and John Clark, published in 1973 - that's probably the book Sandman is referring to, I guess -

As far as I know, it was the only printing but it's a worthwhile read if you can find it - try Ebay or a used book store, if you want a copy. I just pulled it off my bookshelf and haven't read it in years but I'm gonna add it to my list before the season starts again.

Interestingly enough, in the very first few pages they discuss genetic adaption - in other words, fish who are prone to fall for a certain plug or color get taken out of the gene pool. The smartest fish survive to spawn and give birth to smarter fish. The vulnerable are caught and the weak strains are reduced in numbers and eliminated.

In the short term, I also believe fish who are released are conditioned to reject a plug that looks a lot like that one that just gave them a face full of VMC's.

All that having been said, I fish either black, white or natural colors, pogie and eel then down the list from there in rotation. Habs himself liked any color as long as it was white - but then he really liked an all black Pt Jude butterfish, too - he used to bust me about being nuts about his eel pattern but it's always worked well for me...:huh:

For me, I guess, it's just a confidence thing - I always thought it was more a matter of profile, contrast and action for the most part like Jim said and I still subscribe to that.

And then, from my own experience, what works around Newport doesn't necessarily work in SoCo just a few miles away or on BI either - different local baits within the same time frame...so experiment.

Your mileage may vary - and when all else fails, use an eel. Snakes are always a fish-finder.

Hey, Ivan, I hope you didn't think this was going to produce an easy answer for ya....:hihi:

some fish need glasses... :jester:

Here ya go - 43 copies available, new and used:

http://www.amazon.com/Through-Fishs-Eye-Gamefish-Behavior/dp/0060139714

some fish need glasses... :jester:

Yeah, there's also a few who are hard of herring, too...:laughs:

I honestly think that 90% of the color thing its a overrated.
Give me a guy who has confidence in a plug when is using and I'll show you a fish on the end of the line. My biggest pet peeve is colors of surface swimmers like Danny plugs where most of the "color" is above water. Maybe seagulls are telling stripers what color does it look like ?
Plug colors make for a great conversation but I still think its the angler that catches fish and not plug.

...maybe there's a camera device that measures in foot candles
the available light.........Crafty would know....

Yup, Rav - you could use a light meter and take a reflective reading off the surface of the plug - if you're careful to avoid getting a false reading off a specular highlight (the reflective quality of the finish). That's an old school way.

New school would be to take a digital photo, carefully calibrate your monitor and use a Spider or a similar device to take a reading - same thing, newer version.

I'd probably use the old school method - fewer variables involved.

But then you're missing the point when you're actually using the plug in the water with those variables in the field like the ambient light at the time, the depth (as it affects the color spectrum) so forth and so on down the line...:spin:

For chrissakes, Rav, just put on an eel and get it over with...:hihi:

For chrissakes, Rav, just put on an eel and get it over with...:hihi:


AYE matey, burning all my plugs in the woodstove.... :laugha:

My biggest pet peeve is colors of surface swimmers like Danny plugs where most of the "color" is above water. Maybe seagulls are telling stripers what color does it look like ?
.

For what it is worth, Danny plugs roll quite a bit and fish get a good flash of color (or at night, shade) off them. You can see this very well on the video on Tattoo's site.

Not to mention the prism effect or whatever Fish-Eye calls it when the colors on top of the plug can be seen from below. Ask Mike Laptew about it Zeno if you see him.

you guys are giving fish way too much credit. What human can see in a video is not necessarily what fish sees. I'll stick with my belief that fish see motion and shadows with colors only sometimes being important.I am not saying that it doesn't matter but if I give you a guy with confidence in his lure a "wrong" color plug I still think he will out fish a guy with no confidence with a "right" color plug of the day. This topic has been debated for years and years and many feel very strongly about the colors while others just prefer to stick with lures they know well. Knowing your lure well is a lost art. Most guys who have a half a dozen Danny's in their bag don't pay no attention that they all might swim slightly different ,even if they were made by same builder
Man, I got to get rid of this cold and get my butt back on the job :-)

It's not "theory". The optics of the eye are very well known. In addition to the above book read: What fish see: Understanding optics and color shifts for designing lures and flies. by Colin J Kageyama O.D., F.C.O.V.D. This book is a little more technical than Sosins and concentrates more on steelhead than bass, and doesn't explore a lot of night vision, mostly daylight in which they did experiments on bass and they could see different colors, and even fishing line down to 4# test. I also came across a magazine article some time ago the said the same thing written by another Doctor of optometry and I recall he said daytime then can see colors well but nighttime is a different shades of gray world. The fact that fish can't speak has nothing to do with it.

That said, light (colors) and dark (colors) are perceived differently, they just can't differentiate between yellow and say green at night.


Now that I picked it up I am going to re-read this, I forgot how cool this is.

Hey, Putski!!!

For chrissakes, look what you started now, goddammit...

:cputin::rocketem: :fight::rumble::fight:


...:rotflmao:...

I would still like someone to explain that to me.

Steve,

Big Ed was kind enough to write a piece about that exact subject and preserve that piece of surfcasting history.

http://www.tattoostackle.com/yesteryear/thestoryofpinkplugs.php

TC has alot to say, the guy is a living historian of the golden age of surfcasting. I always pay close attention to what he has to say.

It's not "theory".


thank you very much MR Sandman for that clarification !


Right ON :claps:

It's not "theory". The optics of the eye are very well known. In addition to the above book read: What fish see: Understanding optics and color shifts for designing lures and flies. by Colin J Kageyama O.D., F.C.O.V.D. This book is a little more technical than Sosins and concentrates more on steelhead than bass, and doesn't explore a lot of night vision, mostly daylight in which they did experiments on bass and they could see different colors, and even fishing line down to 4# test. I also came across a magazine article some time ago the said the same thing written by another Doctor of optometry and I recall he said daytime then can see colors well but nighttime is a different shades of gray world. The fact that fish can't speak has nothing to do with it.

That said, light (colors) and dark (colors) are perceived differently, they just can't differentiate between yellow and say green at night.


Now that I picked it up I am going to re-read this, I forgot how cool this is.

Sandman,
Sorry if I come across in crass manner.I was just stating my opinion in a matter of fact manner..As I usually do.
I meant no disrespect..
While doctors who specialize in optometry will dissect a fish's eye to break down what makes it tick.They can also run all kinds experiments in controlled situations. The conclusions can not considered 100 percent fact.Them same doctors with the fancy Placards whose funding for these experiments come from grants.(This alone can lead to slanted results..)Will be the first to tell ya the same thing.. This makes their claims theoretical ..
I can tell ya a fact..There have been times like Flap noted.At night, when if you did not have a specific odd ball color (Like pink) you where not catching.So in usual fashion, I have question the results of these experts.
To me real life experience trumps doctors hypothesis..
Agian just my opinion.I in no means have any intention of slanting the experts.I just wanted to make a point..

Should you always assume its the color of the plug they like first. Maybe its the size,,the way the plug moves .. Who has a bag full of the same plug, just different colors ?. That being said I have witnessed about 50 guys throwing 3 ounce polarises one dawn and only one color catching ... So I know its true, color matters sometimes .. but we shouldn't always assume ,, Oh ,, they like this color ..

I was doing some research for an article recently and I found some fascinating information on the specifics of how stripers view their world.

Thanks to the work of Virginia Institute of Marine Science graduate student Andrij Horodysky and faculty adviser Dr. Rich Brill, we now know that the stripers has evolved to see swiftly moving prey in daylight while others, like weakfish, are adapted to see small, sluggish prey at night.

The striper’s color-sensitive cone cells move toward the surface of the retina during daylight hours, and retreat to make room for the contrast-sensitive rod cells at night. This “circadian rhythm” also changes with the seasons.

Horodysky’s research shows that striped bass are most sensitive during daylight hours to a wide range of colors from blue to red, with a peak at chartreuse. They have a flicker fusion frequency of around 50 (similar to the shutter speed in a camera), relatively fast for a fish, which allows them to track large, quick-moving prey like menhaden.

Compared to striped bass, weakfish have slow vision (around 25 cycles per second) and are more sensitive to contrast than color.

Horodysky states, “You’ve got two animals that are competing
for the same food. How do they do it? Stripers use color to see and feed during the day. Weakfish use contrast sensitivity to see at night.”

Another fascinating aspect of Horodysky’s research is that he and his colleagues hypothesize that striped bass are often living in a visual world very different from the one that evolution prepared them for. History indicates that bay systems that stripers thrive in have gradually gotten murkier due to the runoff and the demise of oysters, mussels and aquatic vegetation. This means that although they are adapted to see—large, fast-moving fish like menhaden—they’re actually feeding on crabs, lobsters, and shrimp because they can find them easily in turbid water. The fact that menhaden have been over fished must enter into this equation as well.

In dark or dirty water, I always go for a chartreuse colored offering, now I know it’s effective because it's a color that is right in the middle of a striper’s visual range and it can easily be seen.

Pass me the pearl bomber.

IMHO, I favor pearl over white (the subtle hint of other colors seems to trump straight white…perhaps because so many bait fish have a pearlescent sheen when light reflects off their scales) and black with a little glitter or flash seems to outperform straight black. When it comes to dawn and dusk I personally choose lures with a yellow body and a red head, especially if they are surface plugs or shallow running swimmers; I’ve observed many species of bait fish at this time of peak predation and the low angle of sun reflects off their side and produces a golden glow. I like a red head because I simply feel most lures and flies benefit from a touch of red. What fish, no matter what its coloration, doesn’t show a flash of red when it flairs its gill plates? It has been proven that stripers see a range of colors from red to blue…with chartreuse being right smack in the middle of their range…so when the visibility is horrible and the water is the color of coffee or chocolate I turn to chartreuse, it is the easiest to see color for both humans AND linesiders.

The one exception to my basic MO above occurs when my offering is suppose to mimic a squid, that’s when I turn to bright pink or hot orange. Stripers apparently don’t see ultra violet but weakfish do, therefore if I were targeting squeteague on a cloudy day or at night, I would definitely use lures or flies that had ultra violet highlights.

In fresh water I’ve found that a gold lure with a fluorescent orange stripe is the most effective color combo for every fish I’ve ever gone after…well, except for suckers, hornpout and carp.

I favor action over color any time of the day or night. But, when I need a solid excuse for why I’m not catching fish, it’s always easy to say, “I just didn’t have the right color lure with me.”

Baitfish such as herring, alewives and anchovies are considered “hearing specialists” because their swimbladder, lateral line, and inner ear are all connected and they also have a pair of prootic auditory bullae which acts as pressure-to-motion transducers. This helps explain why when one moves they all move simultaneously. Recently they proved that American Shad can hear ultrasound of 180 kHz and Gulf Menhaden also have ultrasonic hearing. What does this all mean? Don’t drop the tackle box in your tin boat when you’re trying to snag bait, or don’t crank up the Aerosmith tunes or you’ll drive away the fish.

Stripers have medium hearing yet their lateral line can determine the direction of the current and the presence of nearby objects, as well as sense vibration. Their lateral line functions best within the zone nearest the sound source, the inner ear performs best in the far edges of the near field and outward. Their lateral line does not respond directly to the acoustic-pressure component of sound fields. In the case of vibrating sources, the lateral line is only directly stimulated at very short distances from the source where the generated acoustic field behaves like an incompressible flow. Unless your lure or live bait offering is close to the striper it is likely to depend on its inner ear to detect and direct it to the source of the sound. Therefore, in dirty water a popper, spook, or lure that creates a lot of surface splashing and vibration will be first heard, and then “felt” as the striper locks in on it and then strikes.

Bait such as herring, alewives and anchovies have a distinct hearing advantage over stripers however, at periods of low light, and changing lighting conditions like dusk and dawn, the striper’s excellent vision gives them an upper hand (fin).

And yes, stripers spend lot of their time looking up for prey.

And let’s not forget Snell’s Law.

I also love the color of blooberry at night. :cheers2:

Should you always assume its the color of the plug they like first. Maybe its the size,,the way the plug moves .. Who has a bag full of the same plug, just different colors ?. That being said I have witnessed about 50 guys throwing 3 ounce polarises one dawn and only one color catching ... So I know its true, color matters sometimes .. but we shouldn't always assume ,, Oh ,, they like this color ..


Of course this is true..There are many variables.Sometimes I'm sure you know, the difference of only a few feet in presentation can make all the difference in the world.
To cut to the chase..
I have seen color matter enough times to know the difference.
With that said I hate buying into it.Like Zeno Noted I think skill should always trump color.but there are times it does matter.I have noticed it as many times in the dark as in the light.

I was once at the canal catching small fish on a 3 hook rebel type lure ,,Every cast ,, could barely retrieve and the fish would take the plug .. I took the middle treble off for quick and less messy hook ups and nobody was having it . Fish were clearly visible swimming with the lure ... not a sniff with that middle hook off ..

. When it comes to dawn and dusk I personally choose lures with a yellow body and a red head, especially if they are surface plugs or shallow running swimmers; I’ve observed many species of bait fish at this time of peak predation and the low angle of sun reflects off their side and produces a golden glow. I like a red head because I simply feel most lures and flies benefit from a touch of red. What fish, no matter what its coloration, doesn’t show a flash of red when it flairs its gill plates? :

I've been listening, thank you :read:

I have read MANY striper books/publications over the past few years...
Everything I read says "dark/black" plugs at night except around the full moon... Every how to, article, opinion, always states dark at night... yet most Photos I see published, posted, circulated usually have a white plug/swimmer attached to the maw of a bass... I had much better luck this season on white at night, even around the new moon DARK nights... (esp. tattoo sea pup) it doesnt add up... intentional false-steering info? maybe many publications and opinions are rigid in their approach and still recite what killed 'em in 1983? Who knows... I know black works at night, but you'd think you'd hear more about light colors at night based on my success and others (many night shots with a light plug). I'm not really sure there's a question here... Chalk it up to cabin fever...

I use light colored plugs to hang out of the Basses mouth after I remove the eel, how else would we all get free plugs?

I've been listening, thank you :read:


Now your punishing your NIB..

I use light colored plugs to hang out of the Basses mouth after I remove the eel, how else would we all get free plugs?

Good one Bob!

When it comes to color pattern - I just ask the bass when no one is looking - they let me know.

DZ

I use light colored plugs to hang out of the Basses mouth after I remove the eel, how else would we all get free plugs?
yes

...
I also love the color of blooberry at night. :cheers2:

Ahhh...the one thing that's no mystery...:hihi:

Thanks for taking the time to post that Mike...:kewl:

I was hoping you weren't off on safari somewhere and would see the thread and weigh in -