Just a few questions

Gas prices are up close to 40 cents nationwide while oil prices continue to go down - Are we to blame Obama? Bush was always blamed

War in Iraq - bad, War in Afghanistan - good. Are there going to be massive peace protests now that Obama is escalating the war in Afghanistan? If not, why not?

Whats our plan for Iraq? The peace protests have stopped, yet the war lingers on?

Despite a message of Hope and an economy based on consumer sentiment, the stock market contiues to decline with every detail of Obama's plan. How come he is not infusing confidence in the economy despite the largest attempts by a government in history?

Can you answer any of the above without saying the following "last 8 years", "Bush", "conservative policies" etc?

these are the questions that go through my mind and I dont watch Fox news, dont listen to Rush Limbaugh, I was cursed with an curious mind, please help me see the light.

Gas prices are up close to 40 cents nationwide while oil prices continue to go down - Are we to blame Obama? Bush was always blamed.

Good Article on the Why's....
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/printedition/2009/02/16/gasb0216.html

War in Iraq - bad, War in Afghanistan - good. Are there going to be massive peace protests now that Obama is escalating the war in Afghanistan? If not, why not?

There are ALWAYs protests by Somebody...ALWAYS. Myself, I have always felt Afghanistan is where we SHOULD have been in the 1st place...So I won't be among the protesters.

Whats our plan for Iraq? The peace protests have stopped, yet the war lingers on?

Its been a month...lets see what happens shall we He said he wanted troops out in 16 months....15 to go.

Despite a message of Hope and an economy based on consumer sentiment, the stock market contiues to decline with every detail of Obama's plan. How come he is not infusing confidence in the economy despite the largest attempts by a government in history?

because Wall St. is Evil.....the Messiah said so.

and I didn't use any of the No-No words

your first question - I read something about this last week in a newspaper which I never knew. The problem is that what we hear for the average barrell of oil price is based on a type of oil that is not used in the production of gasoline. I believe the oil that we hear about might be Texas something or another while gasoline is made from foreign oil which is now more expensive.

2) Almost everyone realizes that the people responsible for 9/11 were in Afghanistan and not Iraq. Therefore there is support for war there and not Iraq.

I still see protestors every Sat. morning in front of New Haven city hall and on the bridge going over the Saugatuck river in Westport, Ct.

what are the goals of the war in Afghanistan? Do we plan on establishing a democracy there too? What does a victory look like?

and by protestors, I mean the MASSIVE demostrations at the Repub convention or anti-Bush in other countries. Do you think those will continue?
No people from Afghanistan ever attached America, did they? Isnt that war 2X as un-winnable as Iraq?

No people from Afghanistan ever attached America, did they??


WTF was 911???? Just because their citizenship was not from Afghanistan...they did train there....

WTF was 911???? Just because their citizenship was not from Afghanistan...they did train there....
Ok-
so whats the goal? defeat Al Queda in Afghanistan? The Taliban? who are we fighting there?

9/11 was 8 years ago, is this just late revenge?

Ok-
so whats the goal? defeat Al Queda in Afghanistan? The Taliban? who are we fighting there?

I would say defeat the Taliban, since they sponsored Al Queda and Osama. If I'm not mistaken there has been a resurgence by the taliban in the region.

9/11 was 8 years ago, is this just late revenge?

I guess we should just forget about it then :rolleyes:


and if you are trying to draw parrallels to Georgies "Late Revenge for Daddy" angle and the fact that these A-Holes slammed planes into buildings on our soil....thats a serious %$%$%$%$ing stretch.

WTF was 911???? Just because their citizenship was not from Afghanistan...they did train there....

If I'm not mistaken they were Saudis.
How do you know they weren't trained in Saudi Arabia?

If I'm not mistaken they were Saudis.
How do you know they weren't trained in Saudi Arabia?

They were....and I think a couple from yemen...which is why I said their citizenship wasn't from there.

and you are right about them training there...I made a fatal mistake and believed what the Bush....er.....I mean the last.....Administration told us. Silly me...

"Supposedly" trained there.....


....and the issue of Osama being there too...

Im not trying to start anything, just sincere questions.
Afghanistan seem like a larger quagmire than Iraq. Step one in Iraq was get rid of Saddam, ok we did that. Step - 2 set up a democracy and quell the insurgance. Thats a bigger problem.

So whats step 1 in Afghanistan? Defeat the Taliban? There a bunch of wandering tribesmen. How do you defeat them? Whats Step 2.
I think these are valid questions and I am wondering if Obama will get as much international outrage as Bush did.

remember the BIG criticism of Bush/Cheney- they had no plan once they got in there, so whats the plan for Afghanistan?

Sorry for asking questions Dad. I'll just play like a dumb Democrat and vote YES for war and then later say I was against it.

BTW - did Congress vote on this war? Why is the this war "legal" and Iraq was "illegal"?

Dad, looks like you'll have to go to war in PAkistan too. That is if your goal is to defeat the Taliban.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/02/17/asia/17pstan.php

I'm just letting him settle in, make his moves and look at results .. You were banging nails building the gallows day one .. give the guy a chance ..and yes .. we should still blame Bush for life in general .. He painted us in this corner ..

Just a few questions

Gas prices are up close to 40 cents nationwide while oil prices continue to go down - Are we to blame Obama? Bush was always blamed

War in Iraq - bad, War in Afghanistan - good. Are there going to be massive peace protests now that Obama is escalating the war in Afghanistan? If not, why not?

Whats our plan for Iraq? The peace protests have stopped, yet the war lingers on?

Despite a message of Hope and an economy based on consumer sentiment, the stock market contiues to decline with every detail of Obama's plan. How come he is not infusing confidence in the economy despite the largest attempts by a government in history?

Can you answer any of the above without saying the following "last 8 years", "Bush", "conservative policies" etc?

these are the questions that go through my mind and I dont watch Fox news, dont listen to Rush Limbaugh, I was cursed with an curious mind, please help me see the light.

So whats step 1 in Afghanistan?

#1 burn the poppy fields ,,have a real war on drugs , talk about a stimulus package .. Get our citizens/youth off Heroin,,increase productivity,,Stop cash flow to terrorist..Save health care treating addicts..no addict babys,, prostitution ,,guns,,murder.. We're rotting from the inside out . imho And who's making all the money on OXI in this country .. That drug shouldn't even exist . find Osama and Whitey

If I'm not mistaken they were Saudis.
How do you know they weren't trained in Saudi Arabia?

They were mostly Saudis ,,, they hate us too .

#1 burn the poppy fields ,,have a real war on drugs , talk about a stimulus package .. Get our citizens/youth off Heroin,,increase productivity,,Stop cash flow to terrorist..Save health care treating addicts..no addict babys,, prostitution ,,guns,,murder.. We're rotting from the inside out . imho And who's making all the money on OXI in this country .. That drug shouldn't even exist . find Osama and Whitey

Taliban kills people for growing poppies.
Next?

Taliban kills people for growing poppies.
Next?

i stand corrected ,,,

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jun/14/afghanistan.drugstrade

but who to believe ..
http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2008-10/2008-10-10-voa62.cfm?CFID=119189952&CFTOKEN=88777411&jsessionid=8830a3b9718e50fb128c527a4a572f531720

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2008/05/record-opium-crop-funding-resurgent-taliban

Alot more publications stating they are being financed by poppys ... Maybe they are shooting the farmers for not paying up .

google it .. there's alot more .

Taliban kills people for growing poppies.
Next?

This statement was correct Pre-War on Terror days. The Taliban was extremely effective at destroying poppy cultivation. However, the Taliban has changed their position on poppy cultivation because they see it as an exceptional resource to fund their resistance.

If you remember, after 9/11, and at the start of the Afghan war, Iran was actually helping the United States as they wanted to curb the flow of opium (ok, and perhaps punk Sunni Islam in the process).

Then they became a gold member in the new "Axis of Evil" and the moderate president was thrown out in favor of that wacko Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

This is perhaps one of the most important and underreported bylines of the WOT, and a strategic failure of the Bush Administration.

-spence

anyone remember the Surge? You know, it was debated endlessly by congress, on all the news, internet, and after weeks, or was it months. There were more protests? Bush came on the news and addressed the nation? Well that was for sending 20,000 additonal troops to Iraq. He layed out the reasons why we needed to do it.

Today Obama arranged to send 17,000 troops to afghanistan. No debate, no discussion, no agreement. And most importantly no reason WHY.

1. As Americans you should be questioning this.
2. As Obama supporters, you should be appalled at his lack of transparency and his total lack of objective in committing troops to war.

Am I the only one that sees this? Why am I the only one angry? How many promises has this guy broken in just a month?

If you remember, after 9/11, and at the start of the Afghan war, Iran was actually helping the United States as they wanted to curb the flow of opium (ok, and perhaps punk Sunni Islam in the process).

Then they became a gold member in the new "Axis of Evil" and the moderate president was thrown out in favor of that wacko Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

This is perhaps one of the most important and underreported bylines of the WOT, and a strategic failure of the Bush Administration.

-spence

Also Iran was pretty annoyed with the refugees pouring out of Afghanistan running away from both the Soviets before them then the Taliban. They had a dog in BOTH fights. Its just that most revisionists would rather the "axis of evil" not look like they were helping.

anyone remember the Surge? You know, it was debated endlessly by congress, on all the news, internet, and after weeks, or was it months. There were more protests? Bush came on the news and addressed the nation? Well that was for sending 20,000 additonal troops to Iraq. He layed out the reasons why we needed to do it.

Today Obama arranged to send 17,000 troops to afghanistan. No debate, no discussion, no agreement. And most importantly no reason WHY.

1. As Americans you should be questioning this.
2. As Obama supporters, you should be appalled at his lack of transparency and his total lack of objective in committing troops to war.

Am I the only one that sees this? Why am I the only one angry? How many promises has this guy broken in just a month?


I believe he said during the campaign he would be doing this, but only 7,000 during the transition the count went up to 30,000. And it was troops that had been previously positioned for Iraq.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/weekinreview/25cooper.html

anyone remember the Surge? You know, it was debated endlessly by congress, on all the news, internet, and after weeks, or was it months. There were more protests? Bush came on the news and addressed the nation? Well that was for sending 20,000 additonal troops to Iraq. He layed out the reasons why we needed to do it.

Today Obama arranged to send 17,000 troops to afghanistan. No debate, no discussion, no agreement. And most importantly no reason WHY.

1. As Americans you should be questioning this.
2. As Obama supporters, you should be appalled at his lack of transparency and his total lack of objective in committing troops to war.

Am I the only one that sees this? Why am I the only one angry? How many promises has this guy broken in just a month?

Actually, transparency and keeping a campaign promise is exactly what he's doing. That's why noone is questioning this and why us "Obama supporters" are not "appalled at his lack of transparency."

I know you conservatives are used to being told one thing and then nothing happening. Fortunately, action is something I can get used to.

I appreciate the re-evaluation of focus on the true reason we are in the Middle East. Afghanistan is where the War on Terror is. Iraq is where Bush's war on "the man who tried to kill my dad" is.
Cite for Bush's quote. http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/09/27/bush.war.talk/

Actually, transparency and keeping a campaign promise is exactly what he's doing. That's why noone is questioning this and why us "Obama supporters" are not "appalled at his lack of transparency."

I know you conservatives are used to being told one thing and then nothing happening. Fortunately, action is something I can get used to.

I appreciate the re-evaluation of focus on the true reason we are in the Middle East. Afghanistan is where the War on Terror is. Iraq is where Bush's war on "the man who tried to kill my dad" is.
Cite for Bush's quote. http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/09/27/bush.war.talk/

action is what you condemned Bush for and O gets a free pass. So Obama sends 17000 troops, no approval from Congress, no debate and most importantly no goal. He is sending them into a war 5X as win-less as Iraq and does not even address the country. I give up, you guys are seriously helpless and blind.

action is what you condemned Bush for and O gets a free pass.

Action yes.

IN THE WRONG EFFING COUNTRY.

action is what you condemned Bush for and O gets a free pass. So Obama sends 17000 troops, no approval from Congress, no debate and most importantly no goal. He is sending them into a war 5X as win-less as Iraq and does not even address the country. I give up, you guys are seriously helpless and blind.

Obama made this a campaign promise and was elected on it. Besides, these are troops that the Pentagon has requested.

If anything you could argue that there's not a clear endgame on the table that this action is in support of, but no, you have to make this about Bush.

Afghanistan isn't 5X win-less either, but the definition of success is much different from Iraq. We need to kill Bin Laden and let every tribal leader in Afghanistan know that if they support terrorism we'll fire bomb their villages.

-spence

Obama made this a campaign promise and was elected on it. Besides, these are troops that the Pentagon has requested.

If anything you could argue that there's not a clear endgame on the table that this action is in support of, but no, you have to make this about Bush.

Afghanistan isn't 5X win-less either, but the definition of success is much different from Iraq. We need to kill Bin Laden and let every tribal leader in Afghanistan know that if they support terrorism we'll fire bomb their villages.

-spence


If you'd care to read above, I asked a number of times what the goal is aka, the end game.
Fire bomb their villages? That will be the day.

Dad, looks like you'll have to go to war in PAkistan too. That is if your goal is to defeat the Taliban.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/02/17/asia/17pstan.php

That's what he promised to do also....

I'd better grab my hackeysack and make a sign. Obama the warmonger. Murderer!
End this(less) War!
How about the Obama bumper sticker with the peace sign as the "O"
freakin hippocrates

If you'd care to read above, I asked a number of times what the goal is aka, the end game.
Fire bomb their villages? That will be the day.


Fire bombing villages made of stone really doesn't help.
These people in Afghanistan have been oppressed for years, the Taliban is a bunch of terrorist extremists. Just much stronger then the rival warlords in that the control most of the opium production and export now.

Our puppet government in Afghanistan is corrupt and without power, unfortunately.

We do need an agenda and a clear end-game. I have friends who have been in there twice and the last tour found it much worse in regards to Taliban operations than it was the first time. The first time he was in an advisory mode with feuding warlords, the second he was operational deployed with US forces, much like what is going to happen now

At the moment it appears to be diplomacy by force, however every time we knock someone down, yet another faction or splintered factions surface in their place.

I'd better grab my hackeysack and make a sign. Obama the warmonger. Murderer!
End this(less) War!
How about the Obama bumper sticker with the peace sign as the "O"
freakin hippocrates

Hypocrite? How exactly is he a hypocrite? I'm talking about Obama, not the delusional people that put bumper stickers with big peace signs or any other crap on their cars?

He campaigned that he was going to get the troops out of Iraq and "refocus our attention on the the true War on Terror." Well, the Iraqis forced Bush's hand by stating the want US out of their by 2010 right before the actual election. Obama can't do anything about that.

He didn't campaign as a peace-loving hippie. He's always stated that Afghanistan is where the focus should be and Bush's decisions created a terrible over-extension of the military.

It would be quite ignorant to assume that Obama or his campaign were the ones who created those Obama peace sign stickers. And I think the people that put them on their cars are just as ignorant.

Again I ask, how is Obama a hypocrite with regards to the Middle East?

Fire bombing villages made of stone really doesn't help.
Not everything is made of stone.

But the point is, the warlords who really control Afghanistan are just looking out for their own interests and will never respect a central authority. Even the Taliban had only limited control over the country.

Afghanistan will never be a democracy or anything that resembles one. They like to fight as well, on a documentary once a proud Afghan remarked that to them war was like a habbit.

-spence

They like to fight as well, on a documentary once a proud Afghan remarked that to them war was like a habbit.

-spence

awesome! 17,000 more Americans for them to shoot at!

I'd better grab my hackeysack and make a sign. Obama the warmonger. Murderer!
End this(less) War!
How about the Obama bumper sticker with the peace sign as the "O"
freakin hippocrates

oh yeah, you're not trying to start something at all

I gotta admit, I respect your persistance on this one

Spence hit right on the head, he was elected on the basis of shifting the war to afganistan to go get Bin Laden. Show us some proof that al queda and bin laden have not and are not hiding out in afganistan and you may have a point. It's already been proven that Iraq did not have WMD's so those "hippocrates" have a pretty good leg to stand on, wouldn't you say?

Although I gotta admit that's a good one about the peace sign with the O, old O's no pacifist on afganistan

I wasnt initially but my motives evolved. It shocks me how we have different measures for Bush vs. Obama.
A large contingency that backed Obama are anti war, period. hence the peace sign bumper stickers. I want to see if they turn against him as he escalates this war. Remember the RNC convention? They were mauling people! Do you think that will repeat itself? I look at this stuff as a scientist. You see a situation and determine the response. My initial thought? Most of these protestors dont have a clue about Afhan vs Iraq and we all about repubs and Bush suck. And now that Os in office, they wont even care, since there guy is in. Hence - hippoctates.

Secondly, without a plan and clear objectives, I feel like we are repeating Iraq. Something you Obama supporters should be questioning. The summary of the responses above are " he said he would, so he did". That doenst cut it, at least not for me.

Good lord you're loosing it...

The Pentagon has asked for more troops to help keep violence down during the upcoming elections. Obama pledged to focus on Afghanistan so he's approved the request.

You make it sound like he's off warmongering or something. Obama isn't a pacifist either by the way.

-spence

Good lord you're loosing it...

The Pentagon has asked for more troops to help keep violence down during the upcoming elections. Obama pledged to focus on Afghanistan so he's approved the request.

You make it sound like he's off warmongering or something. Obama isn't a pacifist either by the way.

-spence

the troops are to be there for 5 years, do some research before you insult me.

Not everything is made of stone.

But the point is, the warlords who really control Afghanistan are just looking out for their own interests and will never respect a central authority. Even the Taliban had only limited control over the country.

Afghanistan will never be a democracy or anything that resembles one. They like to fight as well, on a documentary once a proud Afghan remarked that to them war was like a habbit.

-spence

So then why are we even there?
Protecting a populace for an election that won't even matter?
The Taliban will be at every voting place, if you vote your'e dead, someplace sometime, probably after they kill your family or make you watch them do it.