Looked at the OTW site today, says its comming soon. Now that im settled down here on the cape, this summer should be full of fishing. Probably be hitting the beaches on the way to work in the morning....Can't wait....getting itchy....at least there still is turkey season:nailem: So whats your plan for the 2009 Striper Cup

Hmm - dunno. Anyone think we should put a team together this year? :crying::hee:

Maybe we should have 2 teams.
S-B Liberals
S-B Conservatives

Hmm - dunno. Anyone think we should put a team together this year? :crying::hee:

I'm out

John, I'd be down if there was a team striped-bass.com again this year...but then again it all depends on how many people want to be on it i guess. :huh:

I'm in

Liberal or Conservative.

Liberal or Conservative.

Libertarian-Loose Conservative.

im in.

ya talk about yer premature announciation!!
i've yet to even flirt with my gear and tackle,
let alone commence to wetting sum line~~~
:heybaby: :heybaby: :bl: :bl: :heybaby: :heybaby:


but seriously, gents, since OTW will not give
us a surf and boat division,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,what say you
about encouraging the NPT Contingent to enter an
ALL SURF Team to level the playing field???

and, why stop there? perhaps, we could get others
RISAA, MSBA, NIB's Legions, DJ's Shorerats, Team Narragansett
to play nicey-nice and in this way create our own Surf Division Competition within the Striper Cup itself.

just an idea, me surfbruddahs, **it's not like The Cup needs any fixing or anything**
:uhuh: :uhuh: :uhuh:

i like the way you think

thanks, bro!

the feelings mutual, although~~~
if i had 1/2 yer photoshop SKILLS

i could get offa the iron and into a cubicle!!!

:hang: :cputin: :hang:



on second thought,,,,,,,,,,i'll keep me day job.

There is no surf division this year???

Haven't heard anything or any changes from OTW this year.

I know I would like to see a LOWER maximum amount of fish that can be entered (even though in reality most people re not entering anywhere near the max amount of fish) to reduce impact of the tourney.

Maybe we as a team should better track what our top 10 are so we know on a near daily basis what fish make no sense keeping in regards to the tournament. We did OK last year but can probably tweak a bit for the better.

There is a Surf Division....There just isn't a Surf TEAM Division.

Haven't heard anything or any changes from OTW this year.

I know I would like to see a LOWER maximum amount of fish that can be entered (even though in reality most people re not entering anywhere near the max amount of fish) to reduce impact of the tourney.

Maybe we as a team should better track what our top 10 are so we know on a near daily basis what fish make no sense keeping in regards to the tournament. We did OK last year but can probably tweak a bit for the better.

On that note I would love to see them bump up the minimum size of fish to 40" or more for the adult division. Fish smaller than this size have no impact on cup points or weekly winners. But for the kids the 36" size allows them a much better chance at weighing in a fish.

Haven't heard anything or any changes from OTW this year.

I know I would like to see a LOWER maximum amount of fish that can be entered (even though in reality most people re not entering anywhere near the max amount of fish) to reduce impact of the tourney.

Maybe we as a team should better track what our top 10 are so we know on a near daily basis what fish make no sense keeping in regards to the tournament. We did OK last year but can probably tweak a bit for the better.

Can you make a locked forum for team members to touch base??

There is a Surf Division....There just isn't a Surf TEAM Division.

absolutely RIGHT, TDF!

i think that you know what i meant.
and THANKS for your clarification,,,,,,,,,,,
:claps: :claps: :claps:

since OTW won't give us seperate TEAM divisions,
in my view, it would be cool if we would configure our TEAMS
so that we WOULD have teams that were ALL Surf.
:uhuh: :uhuh: :uhuh:

i also would like to see a minimum slot of 40"+,
to limit needless kills and to encourage C&R,,,,,,,

BD, just curious, why?
Im pretty sure all 10 of the SB fish last year where surf caught so its not like there was a big advantage to having boats involved. Since this site is made up of a mix of both, why not have a mixed team? Why does it matter?




absolutely RIGHT, TDF!

i think that you know what i meant.
and THANKS for your clarification,,,,,,,,,,,
:claps: :claps: :claps:

since OTW won't give us seperate TEAM divisions,
in my view, it would be cool if we would configure our TEAMS
so that we WOULD have teams that were ALL Surf.
:uhuh: :uhuh: :uhuh:

i also would like to see a minimum slot of 40"+,
to limit needless kills and to encourage C&R,,,,,,,

BD, just curious, why?
Im pretty sure all 10 of the SB fish last year where surf caught so its not like there was a big advantage to having boats involved. Since this site is made up of a mix of both, why not have a mixed team? Why does it matter?

I agree, why would you exclude the boaters? Maybe BD is predjudice and he thinks that boat fishermen aren't good enough to be in the same company as the surf guys.:huh:

it would be sad if you have 2 groups - boat and surf and separately you dont have enough for 1st place, but combined you would have won.

OTW has told me personally and via email that they will never have seperate divisions.Something about cameraderie yada yada.I can never envision a handicap system where boat and surf guys will be satisfied with the handicap.Even last year was waay too much as is indicated by our top fish all being surf fish in spite of a banner year from the boat guys.Chris Meaghan is a great guy and runs an awesome tournament but seems to be missing the point here.I'm sure he has sponsors to appease as well as other outside pressures to influence his decision making so like it or leave it. My impression is OTW doesn't show much love for the boat guys. If they ever did decide to make different divisions perhaps the accomplishments of many hardcore anglers would have more merit.Fortunately decisions and impressions aren't based on hypothetical scenarios such as the ones Bassdawg presents.

I can never envision a handicap system where boat and surf guys will be satisfied with the handicap.Even last year was waay too much as is indicated by our top fish all being surf fish in spite of a banner year from the boat guys.

Even with the above said, I still feel like the team portion is as fair as it can get. The distribution of big fish is different every year and last years big hitters may or may not repeat their successes in 2009. A big part of fishing success depends on what shows up in your local waters.
I wouldn't change anything about the tourney at this point, except they need a system that will update the standings more quickly and avoid unnecessary kills. I personally took two big fish last year that could have been released as they didn't factor into the tourney.

Agree with the above but I do like the 40 inch minimum for adults. That 36-39.9 range ain't gonna do anything and the rare 40" fish weighing 30 pounds is just that rare other than in claims on the Internet. To sweeten the anxiety :conf: how about making it so you can only weigh in two fish per calendar month. That'll add some sleepless nights :hihi:

The point ratio for the shore fish is probably about accurate as it will get.

Haven't heard anything or any changes from OTW this year.

I know I would like to see a LOWER maximum amount of fish that can be entered (even though in reality most people re not entering anywhere near the max amount of fish) to reduce impact of the tourney.

Maybe we as a team should better track what our top 10 are so we know on a near daily basis what fish make no sense keeping in regards to the tournament. We did OK last year but can probably tweak a bit for the better.

I'm with you john, and i agree with the forum for the team...it would provide for real time tracking...it wouldn't be worth keeping a questionable fish if you know that its obvious that the top 10 are grabbing ones that are bigger

J

BD, just curious, why?
Im pretty sure all 10 of the SB fish last year where surf caught so its not like there was a big advantage to having boats involved. Since this site is made up of a mix of both, why not have a mixed team? Why does it matter?

yes and the year before when we won it they were all surf fish

With a handicap like the one you enjoyed for that victory the tournament was over before it started.

Did not see a large fish from the boat last year at all. Last year was probably the slowest boat year I've seen in 15 years.
I am with the 40-45 inch minimum for entrance.
It's a shame we couldn't do a C&R tournament, but that is something that is too prone to 'influence' that I just don't see it happening.

With a handicap like the one you enjoyed for that victory the tournament was over before it started.

...for the sake of humility, perhaps the handicap should be abolished !
would the surf division be as dominant ?

BD, just curious, why?
Im pretty sure all 10 of the SB fish last year where surf caught so its not like there was a big advantage to having boats involved. Since this site is made up of a mix of both, why not have a mixed team? Why does it matter?

my point precisely,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

i'm not trying to be exclusionary, more along the lines
of leveling the playing field for ALL teams. the reason we entered 10 surf fish is because our TEAM's 10 largest bass were surf caught.

i mostly thought that it would be more interesting that way, and a way to divide the TEAM competition into two divisions~~~~

since apparently OTW will not and cannot according to ChrisDangles.
:bl: :bl: :bl:

...for the sake of humility, perhaps the handicap should be abolished !
would the surf division be as dominant ?


spoken like a true boatsman!!!
yeah 'cause boat fish and surf fish are the SAME!!!
:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

yer sheeetin' me, RIGHT? let's move forward
not backwards, bro. .02 seemed to work fine last year.
:kewl: :kewl: :kewl:

Here's a novel idea....Read ALL the rules...... if you agree to them then by all means enter the tourney and enjoy the hell out of it.........and don't biatch about how its run because by sending in your entry fee you agreed to abide by THEIR RULES.

If you don't agree with them then fold up the bills, stuff them back in your wallet and don't enter........and don't biatch about how its run....because by Not sending in the entry fee it means absolutely nothing to you on how its run.

it really is that simple.....enter or don't....your choice. ....:wall:

i think the rules are fine, and i'm happy fishing anywhere i can.

With a handicap like the one you enjoyed for that victory the tournament was over before it started.

You're right Chris, but they did address the issue fairly, IMO.

If they lower the ratio to 1.15 its still fair. Any lower and the boaters have the advantage. Schaeffer was 1.15 and the contest went for many years and was always competitive.

[QUOTE=Sea Dangles;674203]With a handicap like the one you enjoyed for that victory the tournament was over before it started.[/QUOTE






.

With a handicap like the one you enjoyed for that victory the tournament was over before it started.


You're kidding, right chris.

we weren't the only team that year that was dominated by surf caught fish. every team in the top 5 I believe were surf oriented teams

I agree, boat dominated teams had no shot that year....but to say that WE won specifically because of the handicap rule is wrong.......If I remember correctly....NIB'S jersey suf team and us went down to the last week

Maybe we should have 2 teams.
S-B Liberals
S-B Conservatives

not fair!

-liberals are gonna get to add 1/3 of our weight to their fish (asset reallocation) and since they're all on welfare they can fish more while were funding them.

If you don't agree with them then fold up the bills, stuff them back in your wallet and don't enter........and don't biatch about how its run....because by Not sending in the entry fee it means absolutely nothing to you on how its run.

it really is that simple.....enter or don't....your choice. ....:wall:

Great point.
Thats why I keep my wallet shut. Not my cup of tea, but I won't gripe about it :tm:

Same here. I don't think that killing the stocks of a species that was almost wiped out once and may be on the brink agian is worth competing over.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

It will all come to an end soon anyway.....

Right now I'm not going to participate but I might change my mind . I would love to win a VanStaal because I don't know how long they will have those as a monthly surf prize but I think I'll just take pictures and release everything and be satisfied with the many VanStaals I already own.

I would like to join the team this year.
can you enter the striper cup solo?? Or do they only have team divisions?
I could use a new Van Staal.

Did not see a large fish from the boat last year at all. Last year was probably the slowest boat year I've seen in 15 years.


Bill are you talking about yourself or the Striper Cup? There were a bunch of really large fish, 50 plus lbs., caught in the boat division last year. Not by our group but by some of the others.

I would like to join the team this year.
can you enter the striper cup solo?? Or do they only have team divisions?

You do not have to be attached to a team to fish. you can go in as a solo angler if you want.

Right now I'm not going to participate but I might change my mind . I would love to win a VanStaal because I don't know how long they will have those as a monthly surf prize but I think I'll just take pictures and release everything and be satisfied with the many VanStaals I already own.

Steve,
Fishing with JoeP (who carries a camera and scale) is trending me in that direction... keep a few gut hooked etc.. for the table and release as many as possible....

Steve,
Fishing with JoeP (who carries a camera and scale) is trending me in that direction... keep a few gut hooked etc.. for the table and release as many as possible....

I'm with you on that! :love:

Bill are you talking about yourself or the Striper Cup? There were a bunch of really large fish, 50 plus lbs., caught in the boat division last year. Not by our group but by some of the others.
Me, I was following you around. Those large were early season fish right part of the same push that had the 75 and 70+ out of Jude?
Can't say that there were a lot of large during commercial, most of the Westport fleet struggled off of Nomans through the end of the season.

Me, I was following you around.

You didn't think I was going to show you my good spots did you? You would need night vision for that.

There is only one spot up there. doesn't matter light or dark.

There is only one spot up there. doesn't matter light or dark.


:smash: :bshake:

Thats a late season, fall time spot

Thats what MacoJoe told me

Steve,
Fishing with JoeP (who carries a camera and scale) is trending me in that direction... keep a few gut hooked etc.. for the table and release as many as possible....Bryan, I think that is the best way to do it. I'm getting to old to lug dead, big fish a mile just to get a little bit of glory which is fading at best. I'll never win the cup because I can't stay with it nightly anymore like I used to . So why kill 30 lb. fish?????? I'll bring my camara and a scale. I released a few good ones last season and it felt good.

Bryan, I think that is the best way to do it. I'm getting to old to lug dead, big fish a mile just to get a little bit of glory which is fading at best. I'll never win the cup because I can't stay with it nightly anymore like I used to . So why kill 30 lb. fish?????? I'll bring my camara and a scale. I released a few good ones last season and it felt good.

My sentiments exactly. Although I had fun competing for a few years, it really comes down to the guys that can stick with it daily/nightly who have the upper hand. It actually gets more stressful for me as I feel like there's a need to produce big every time out. Reality is I can't do it at that level for more than a few nights at a time, so its gonna be a fun thing this year. I'm planning on getting my oldest son into it this summer too.

Here's a novel idea....Read ALL the rules...... if you agree to them then by all means enter the tourney and enjoy the hell out of it.........and don't biatch about how its run because by sending in your entry fee you agreed to abide by THEIR RULES.

If you don't agree with them then fold up the bills, stuff them back in your wallet and don't enter........and don't biatch about how its run....because by Not sending in the entry fee it means absolutely nothing to you on how its run.

it really is that simple.....enter or don't....your choice. ....:wall:

oh really, it's about rules???
WOW, TDF, you are brilliant.

can't a guy talk about the esoterics of a question without
being accused of snivelling?? i have absolutely ZERO problems
with the RULES,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i compete each year, i killed only one striper
for the entire tourney, and i LOVE the challenge for The Cup.

my point was merely from an "it would be interesting if,,,,,,,,,,,",
and "since they do not why couldn't we, IFFF we wanted/agreed/thought it was necessary to
configure our TEAMS that weigh, SIMPLY for the chits and giggles of it. you know to add our own wrinkle to the contest~~~~~~IIIIFFFF, we so desired.

to each his own, and i will be IN!!
tons of fun and the party at the brewery ain't too bad either.
good luck to ALL ~teams, individuals, surf, boat~ it's ALL fishin'!
:wavey: :bl: :bl: :wavey:

Before I have a serenity now moment....do you happen to read your PM's???

Just curious pretty sure I sent you one last night saying that I wasn't aiming the response at you, it just happened to follow your last response.....it was just a general response because the striper cup gets beaten up every year.....like clockwork.

Serenity Friggin-Now :wall:

bluemars.org
cryosleep (http://www.bluemars.org)

Serenity.... how disappointing. It had all the makings of a good ol' fashioned mid-winter, shack nasties, dope slapping , verbal beatdown too.....

Taking the High Road.....

I think you are entitled to whine even if you enter. I also condone complaits of elected officials regardless of whether or not you vote.Cripes,you can even second guess Belichick.Just bring back the yoyo and we'll call it even.

funny SHEEET, as always, Chris!

and spot awn. although the chances of Duncan
making a return to The Cup are slim to NONE.
:bl: :bl: :bl: :bl:

pm read and sent! no blood no foul, bro.
celebrating the differences is what makes this place

SOOOOO SERENE! yer views are always welcomed,
whether we share them or not~~~it's all GOOOOD!!
:tooth: :deadhorse: :tooth:

I always thought that they(OTW) end the tourney way too early, especially for surf guys. Oct. 15 or 30th would be more like it. Mid sept is too early. Other than that the rules are OK

I agree, Steve, but isn't it designed not to interfere with the MV derby? Still, not everyone up and down the coast fishes the derby, so they could have some overlap.

I agree, Steve, but isn't it designed not to interfere with the MV derby? Still, not everyone up and down the coast fishes the derby, so they could have some overlap.

Nope, it's designed to keep Harpoon Brewery as a major sponsor.

They want the awards ceremony as close as possible to October 1 because they want it to kick off their month-long Octoberfest promotion.

And looking at this from another perspective--OTW already gets enough unjustified criticism--much of it coming from parts south of New England--for sponsoring a "kill" tournament. Keeping it going through the bulk of the fall run probably won't do much to appease these guys. :hs:

Makes sense to me Mike! that's what happens when you get into corporate sponsorship! although I like Harpoon beer A LOT

yeah OTW gets a lot of flack, but I think overall the striper cup has brought a lot of excitement into the sport and it certainly has started enought thread on boards like this!

In. I don't plan to fish as hard this year but I say it every year. I'm sure once the time starts rollin closer, the wife will be bootin me out the door to "defend the title". Just hope to catch one large for a monthly winner and a shot at the truck. Last year took too much of a toll on me mentally and physically to keep goin night after night for so long.
We better have a team. I am proud to fish for our "club" and this great fishing community. I've been asked to fish for a couple of other teams this year but take pride in what we have here.
Lets retake the cup.

If we can win it this year, would 2 firsts and a second in three years make team S-B a dynasty?

I'm sure gonna give it hell this year.

Makes sense to me Mike! that's what happens when you get into corporate sponsorship! although I like Harpoon beer A LOT



Yup--if you want to award the kinds of prizes that OTW does--you need to keep the major sponsors happy.

They give you about $400 worth of gear for a weekly. Quantum Cabo reel, Quantum rod, $100 gift card from Boaters' World and a RonZ kit. The reel was a little on the small side (I think it's a Cabo 40), but it holds 290 yards of 10# Fireline and goes nicely on my schoolie rod.

How about we stop beating the crap out of the spawning stock before it's too late?

I won't be registering again. Ever. I'm a soul plugger from here out. It's about the experience for me. Not the kill.

Jon

aGREED!

but they ARE gonna give the nifty schwag
to somebuddy, why not me? :laugha: :laugha: :laugha:

aGREED!
but they ARE gonna give the nifty schwag
to somebuddy, why not me? :laugha: :laugha: :laugha:

b/c my decision of what fish to kill and release is not dictated by a free reel...

If you ARE going to kill a fish on occasion it might as well be one that pays well.If you don't wish to play so be it, but this type of rhetoric has an elitist smell IMO. I am humbled by the integrity of such noble men.These seem like the words of folks who boast of their philanthropy.Perhaps we should have a front page of all the names who refuse to participate to give the heathens something or someone to aspire to.

WoooHooo...I'm a Heathen.

Heathens have more fun anyways....:humpty:

In. I don't plan to fish as hard this year but I say it every year. I'm sure once the time starts rollin closer, the wife will be bootin me out the door to "defend the title". Just hope to catch one large for a monthly winner and a shot at the truck. Last year took too much of a toll on me mentally and physically to keep goin night after night for so long.
We better have a team. I am proud to fish for our "club" and this great fishing community. I've been asked to fish for a couple of other teams this year but take pride in what we have here.
Lets retake the cup.
:btu:amen

I just did a quick count and there were 370 fish over 30lbs weighed in during the striper cup last year. I'm going to guess, for every fish over 30lbs weighed in there was 2 under thirty weighed in so we can estimate that there were about 1150 fish weighed in. Now I'm guessing at least half of those fish would have been killed regardless, so that puts it 575 fish weighed in just because of the Striper Cup. In my mind this is just a drop in the bucket in terms of the kill of large fish, particularly for something that takes place over 5 months. And, looking at this in a purely scientific perspective the number of fish killed for this tournament is insignificant. I think there are far greater problems facing stripers than this tournament.

I wish they could figure out a way to count c and r fish like they do in bonefish tournaments.

I just did a quick count and there were 370 fish over 30lbs weighed in during the striper cup last year. I'm going to guess, for every fish over 30lbs weighed in there was 2 under thirty weighed in so we can estimate that there were about 1150 fish weighed in. Now I'm guessing at least half of those fish would have been killed regardless, so that puts it 575 fish weighed in just because of the Striper Cup. In my mind this is just a drop in the bucket in terms of the kill of large fish, particularly for something that takes place over 5 months. And, looking at this in a purely scientific perspective the number of fish killed for this tournament is insignificant. I think there are far greater problems facing stripers than this tournament.

Actually, here is a reply from OTW to one of the teams involved when the to kill or not kill discussion was going on:
"As far as numbers of bass weighed in each year, in 2006 under 550 fish were weighed. In 2007 & 2008, under 650 fish were weighed in each year. Keep in mind that this is over the coarse of a 5 month tournament with upwards of 3000 anglers involved each year.

Hope this helps clarify some things."

Don't you think more than 90% of those fish were going to die anyway. Art

Actually, here is a reply from OTW to one of the teams involved when the to kill or not kill discussion was going on:
"As far as numbers of bass weighed in each year, in 2006 under 550 fish were weighed. In 2007 & 2008, under 650 fish were weighed in each year. Keep in mind that this is over the coarse of a 5 month tournament with upwards of 3000 anglers involved each year.

Hope this helps clarify some things."

Don't you think more than 90% of those fish were going to die anyway. Art

Art thanks for the clarification, my numbers were just guesses assuming the worst scenarios. The actual actual numbers you provided, just further prove what I'm trying to say - That this tournament is just a drop in a bucket compared to the problems facing striped bass.

IM IN! :buds:

I just did a quick count and there were 370 fish over 30lbs weighed in during the striper cup last year. I'm going to guess, for every fish over 30lbs weighed in there was 2 under thirty weighed in so we can estimate that there were about 1150 fish weighed in. Now I'm guessing at least half of those fish would have been killed regardless, so that puts it 575 fish weighed in just because of the Striper Cup. In my mind this is just a drop in the bucket in terms of the kill of large fish, particularly for something that takes place over 5 months. And, looking at this in a purely scientific perspective the number of fish killed for this tournament is insignificant. I think there are far greater problems facing stripers than this tournament.

There were more 30+ fish killed the last several years in one of those day-long pogie blitzes in NJ, the Great Gamefish State, then in all 3 Striper Cups combined. By far. Most of the guys fishing for the top clubs won't weigh in a fish under 30. No one with any savvy is going to think that they will win a weekly prize with a fish under 25 lbs so I think that your guesstimate of total fish weighed in is on the high side.

And many of the guys fishing for the top clubs are Mass pinhookers, so those fish are dead anyway.

There were more 30+ fish killed the last several years in one of those day-long pogie blitzes in NJ, the Great Gamefish State, then in all 3 Striper Cups combined. By far. Most of the guys fishing for the top clubs won't weigh in a fish under 30. No one with any savvy is going to think that they will win a weekly prize with a fish under 25 lbs so I think that your guesstimate of total fish weighed in is on the high side.

And many of the guys fishing for the top clubs are Mass pinhookers, so those fish are dead anyway.

BINGO

Disturbing how folks use the behavior of other's to justify their own.

The NJ bunker dunkers and Mass pinhookers may kill far more bass than the Striper Cup does, but will that offer any solace when the stocks are pushed too far and collapse?

It won't matter who killed the most when we can't fish for them anymore.

Jon

Disturbing how folks use the behavior of other's to justify their own.

The NJ bunker dunkers and Mass pinhookers may kill far more bass than the Striper Cup does, but will that offer any solace when the stocks are pushed too far and collapse?

It won't matter who killed the most when we can't fish for them anymore.

Jon

I have seen no evidence that the sky is falling. Just MHO.

Above average spawns in 2001, 2003, 2005 and 2007, and bear in mind that the record spawns of the 90s raised what was considered an average spawn from 8.0 to 12.0.

http://dnr.maryland.gov/dnrnews/pressrelease2007/100407c.html

My own fishing experience also tells me that the stocks are a long way from crashing.

IMy own fishing experience also tells me that the stocks are a long way from crashing.

No doubt.

What sometimes affects one's perception is the distribution of fish on any given year. If they don't show heavily in one's local area, one may(erroneously) assume the stocks are in trouble.
I've said this before, but if you didn't experience the mid to late 80's fishery, you may have a clouded perception of how good the fishing really is right now. There's a bigger number and size distribution of fish right now than we've had in 20 years. I feel the next world record will be taken within three years.
Individual success in great part comes down to where they actually set up shop each year and nobody can predict that. Case in point=CC Canal last year.

i dunno,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

i gotts this ONE or THREE li'l UDL's

that haven't failed me for 3 straight years,
prolly be just my luck this year, the Striper Highway

takes a detour away from me little slice of Nirvana Morone

only time and the feesh will TELL,,,,,,,,
:uhuh: :uhuh: :uhuh: :uhuh: