Spent $75 to confirm this (it has been eating at me for over a year). Pictured are an exact copy of a Musso Pine Senior on the left.....which uses a Pikie 3 lip (exactly---I borrowed an original and traced it) , and an original Musso Senior Surface Swimmer on the right which uses a "large" Lefty mid-slot lip (exactly). Note that both lips are mounted above midline although I am not sure if this was always the case.
Unrigged the plug weighs 2.75 oz.
Now I am happy :D

Opps

Thanks George, thats a big help. Also it saves the PM you were going to get when I saw you bought it.

Sorry, my bad.
Could a Mod please move this to the plug building forum?

so what was your concern? You had the wrong lip?

looks like musso makes his metal lips like me, I drill a center hole on each end of my blanks to better fit on the lathe, and it leaves that half-circle above the lip slot like the one on the right.

so what was your concern? You had the wrong lip?

Yup. Everybody (including BM) were/are building their copies of the surface swimmer with Pikie 3 lips (often mounted at midline).....but this made no sense to me since that is the lip the Pine version used and that plug was deeper running. The bassdozer article mentioned the Sr SS had a smaller lip, but nobody ever could or would confirm this for me (most seemed to consider the Pine to be the same as the surface swimmer). The ones I built and fished with a smaller lip did well and the plug pictured from the side in the bassdozer article looked like a smaller lip, too......so I was pretty sure I had it "right". Now I'm 100% sure.

Jolly good show. I don't know why flap says your so dumb.

Jolly good show. I don't know why flap says your so dumb.

Maybe because I was 95% sure and catching fish but still spent
the $75 ?

Yup. Everybody (including BM) were/are building their copies of the surface swimmer with Pikie 3 lips (often mounted at midline).....but this made no sense to me since that is the lip the Pine version used and that plug was deeper running. The bassdozer article mentioned the Sr SS had a smaller lip, but nobody ever could or would confirm this for me (most seemed to consider the Pine to be the same as the surface swimmer). The ones I built and fished with a smaller lip did well and the plug pictured from the side in the bassdozer article looked like a smaller lip, too......so I was pretty sure I had it "right". Now I'm 100% sure.


You finally cracked the case George. :smokin:

Glad you took her before BJ answered by question. No doubt I would have snatched her had he confirmed its identity.

Jon

I had actually pm'd him the night before after I studied the picture and he confirmed it was the surface swimmer and then edited his listing.

You are welcome to borrow the thing after I xray it (or I'd be glad to send you any measurements you'd like). The one issue that remains is the lip slot height. This one is set up the same as the pine with a lip slot above centerline. The one in bassdozers article looks to have the lip at midline, as do some of the jr size surface swimmers posted on line. At some point I'll bet he switched how he did it. I'll probably build a few with the lower lip position and see what happens.

George,
Was this the 5 or 6" swimmer? I have some lefty 1 hi- slots... Wondering if these would work? I'm gonna go spin a few of the 5" ones now. I also have some danny 1 lo-slots...

George,
Was this the 5 or 6" swimmer? I have some lefty 1 hi- slots... Wondering if these would work? I'm gonna go spin a few of the 5" ones now. I also have some danny 1 lo-slots...

The senior, 7.5" surface swimmer. The high slot lefty 2 shape would be the lip he used in the 6" Pine. The slot is about 3/32" above midline. The surface swimmer would use a midslot lefty 2 lip, the same one used in the senior. The lefty 1's work fine on a 5" version (although Musso did not make one as far as I'm aware).

Gotcha... I built a little 4" that swims amazingly. No additional weight. plus I used a 1/2 pikie lip on it... swims much different then using a lefty slot. I'll have to do some experimenting with the 5" version.

I had actually pm'd him the night before after I studied the picture and he confirmed it was the surface swimmer and then edited his listing.

You are welcome to borrow the thing after I xray it (or I'd be glad to send you any measurements you'd like). The one issue that remains is the lip slot height. This one is set up the same as the pine with a lip slot above centerline. The one in bassdozers article looks to have the lip at midline, as do some of the jr size surface swimmers posted on line. At some point I'll bet he switched how he did it. I'll probably build a few with the lower lip position and see what happens.

George -- I would appreciate a copy of that X ray. please post it when done??

been thinking about trying to make one of the senior sized plugs as they look like they would work pretty good in the canal. I wonder how mahogany would work, in lieu of the "Maple swimmer"?

been thinking about trying to make one of the senior sized plugs as they look like they would work pretty good in the canal. I wonder how mahogany would work, in lieu of the "Maple swimmer"?
I have done some out of mahogany, in between the pine and maple as far as depth and speed of wiggle

HELP !! so the pine musso (copy) with the pikie 3 lip is sub surface ?

and the Orig midslot lefty (wood unknown)is the surface swimmer .
I don't know my Musso swimmers ,, I have the pikie lip one from you ... feel i should copy ..

Yo Eddy, this info from a pm I sent to g4b may help:



The body of this surface swimmer is identical to the pine swimmer. I've not xrayed it yet but I expect the weighting to be slightly less. I have never seen a Maple, though I did turn one out of Maple that I havent fished much. I did not weight it.

The plugs are 7.5" long and presumably made of pine.

1st hook is 1 7/8" from the nose
weight is 3 7/8" from nose
2nd hook is 4 7/8 " from nose

Diameter at nose is .86" (same as the lefty 2 lip)
Diameter at first hook is 1.2"
max diameter is 1.4" and located 3 5/8" from the nose
Diameter at second hook is 1.26"
Diameter at tail is .52"

The weight in the Pine version is 3/8 diameter x 3/4" height. I used a 14 gram weight but think this may be more than the original (my finished plugs come out at 3.4 oz). The SS weight is probably 1/4 oz less than the pine.

The SS without hooks weighs 2.75 oz, the pine 2.9 oz
Rigged with old 3/0 mustads they float level, with the water level even or slightly over the high lip slot and just over the tail wire

The lip on the Pine is a Pikie 3
The lip on the Surface Swimmer a midslot lefty 2
The bassdozer article suggests the lip on the Maple is similar to that on the pine.

Both lip slots on the plugs I have measured are located 5/32 (.31") below the top of the head which puts them about a 1/16" above mid line. (The SS pictured in the bassdozer article looks to have the lip mounted at midline and projecting further beneath the plug.......some of the Jr surface swimmers seem set up the same.....probably he made a change somewhere along the line, but when, which way, and why I have no idea).

The pine will swim subsurface a few feet (much like an Atom). It worked well in rough water and moderate current for me. Got me my best fish last year.
The surface swimmer I built (over weighted it seems) took a little more oomph to get it swimming than I like, but accounted for several 25-30# fish before a bluefish took it from me.
Both plugs cast well....probably because of the shape and behind center weight.

If I was building a plug for the canal, I'd consider trying a hybrid version using the pine setup but a high slot lefty lip instead of the standard pikie lip....I think it would swim well in fast current that way.

Yup, mid slot are surface and the high slot is subsurface.

HELP !! so the pine musso (copy) with the pikie 3 lip is sub surface ?

and the Orig midslot lefty (wood unknown)is the surface swimmer .
I don't know my Musso swimmers ,, I have the pikie lip one from you ... feel i should copy ..

Tagger,

according to bassdozer's article, theres 4 different plugs of the same shape.

Surface swimmer uses a lefty2 midslot, stays on top
"Pine" swims 3-6ft, uses a pikie3
"Maple" swims deeper, claims as deep as a conrad, also uses pikie3

not sure about the "troller" lip, its the same body shape just with a planed head, probably a pikie3 too.

Bassdozer said most people wrote a "P" or an "M" on the lips to distinguish between the Pine and the Maple, because they were exactly the same except for wood type (and weight).

Thanks guys ,,, next question .. I wonder wich maple he used ? hard ,, soft .. Hard maple is a beotch .. I can fart and split a hard maple plug ... Numby don't carry that quote pleeez.

Thanks Numby. Good stuff.:grins:
The plug stuff...not the farting.:smash:

Turns out the weight in the surface swimmer is the same as in the Pine.........3/8 x a shade under 3/4....drilled through. The difference in weight of the unrigged plugs must just be variation in the density of the wood.

I just turned 2 out of AYC, gonna weight them with a 1/2 x 1/2 weight, which is .098 sq in, slightly more than the 3/8 x 3/4 (.083 sq in)

Pikie3 lips so they go down

love it very informative!

Tagger,

according to bassdozer's article, theres 4 different plugs of the same shape.

Surface swimmer uses a lefty2 midslot, stays on top
"Pine" swims 3-6ft, uses a pikie3


It just seems odd to me that the 2 plugs above ,, The Sub-Surface wood choice is pine and the Surface lure is made of maple .. I know Numby is just copying Musso .. Unless I'm reading this all wrong .. Just questioning use of wood ?? If I was going for Sub surface I'd choose maple .. Or Surface I'd choose pine .. Less work for the lip and weighting considerations .. Doesn't seem backaswards to anyone eles ? I know this is blasfomy questioning Musso thought process .. Maybe he'll chime in .. :fury::bl:

It just seems odd to me that the 2 plugs above ,, The Sub-Surface wood choice is pine and the Surface lure is made of maple .. I know Numby is just copying Musso .. Unless I'm reading this all wrong .. Just questioning use of wood ?? If I was going for Sub surface I'd choose maple .. Or Surface I'd choose pine .. Less work for the lip and weighting considerations .. Doesn't seem backaswards to anyone eles ? I know this is blasfomy questioning Musso thought process .. Maybe he'll chime in .. :fury::bl:

The way I read it Bass Dozer never tells what woods are used other than pine and maple for the "Pine" and "Maple". I have some doubts that that is correct, the maple could have been birch.
I think the surface swimmer and the pine are both lighter wood, The maple and possibly the troller could be denser.
I made some maple trollers this winter that go pretty deep, I have a certain place in mind.:hee:

.. Unless I'm reading this all wrong .. Just questioning use of wood ?

Eddy

The Surface Swimmer and Pine are made from pine
The maple, presumably is maple (whether weighted or not I don't know).
The Pine and Maple use the same lip (Pikie 3)
The surface swimmer uses the Mid slot Lefty 2 lip

If the U.S government and NASA put as much thought and discussion into the space program as you guys have about building Musso swimmers we would be on Mars by now.

Some of us stand on ice and stare into holes, some build plugs.
Mars can wait, the fish are coming.

we did land on Mars you fool

Luv this flick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CvqXdWuK_U&feature=PlayList&p=72BF0CEE72F93306&index=0&playnext=1


This part of the flick was great

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_YrY4Cmw5Y&feature=PlayList&p=72BF0CEE72F93306&index=9

If the U.S government and NASA put as much thought and discussion into the space program as you guys have about building Musso swimmers we would be on Mars by now.

If Albert Einstien felt the same as you,, we'd never have the light bulb. Next discusion was on the small electrical charge that all living beings make ,setting up magnetic fields . Some of us have already discovered this can easily be duplicated by installing magnets in lures and these lures far outfish all others..Now , not going to tell you .. :bshake:

heres what I just finished up today, need to get some more 4/0's for the mack one though. Went with a 1/2" x 1/2" weight to offset the buoyancy of the AYC, can't wait to try em.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b393/go4broke44/DSCN1742.jpg

If Albert Einstien felt the same as you,, we'd never have the light bulb. Next discusion was on the small electrical charge that all living beings make ,setting up magnetic fields . Some of us have already discovered this can easily be duplicated by installing magnets in lures and these lures far outfish all others..Now , not going to tell you .. :bshake:
Have you been reading Striper:bshake:

Have you been reading Striper:bshake:

not sure .. may be .:alien:. Go4 those plugs look great .. were you inspired to build from musso thread ?

Great flick Paul if you need it i have it on dvd.

not sure .. may be .:alien:. Go4 those plugs look great .. were you inspired to build from musso thread ?
yeah, I asked numbskull about the dimensions for it, I dont think mine are spot on but they are close.

this winter I've been playing around with old designs for big swimmers, I would like to try throwing them this year at the canal instead of just pencils and polaris's.

Numby, You must have been pure HELL to be around when you were a golfer!

Numby, You must have been pure HELL to be around when you were a golfer!

Pleeeez say it isn't so ... Numby in nickers ? Why'd he stop playing ? couldn't get clubs 2' long ?

Yep he was quite the the little Jack Nicklaus but he saw the error of his ways. (Did Robert Redford ever make a golf oriented movie?)

:hs:

Haters. :rude:

You can be sure I only used persimmon woods, however. :angel: