Some food for thought. Get over the initial anger and think.

I think we can all agree that mortgage companies and real estate brokers share responsibility for the current crisis. Part of Obama's plan is to pump $ (your money) into the housing market to reduce the inventory. Who do you think will be raking in the money from this? Mortgage brokers and real estate agents! So, if the AIG bonuses are so unfair, are the real estate commissions and mortgage commissions unfair too? Should the people who made tons of money causing the problem make tons of money on the solution too? Tons of YOUR money?

How about the construction industry? I dont think they were responsible for this mess at all, however, they will be receiving billions in money to "bail" them out, via the stimulus bill. Should they be paid overtime for their work? Or should they, as is being suggested of AIG employees, sacrifice for the common good? Do you think the unions would agree to that?

Food for thought. Like it or not, the only people who will save AIG, is the people working for AIG. These bonuses, just like mortgage commisions and union overtime is the cost of doing business.

I don't think anyone deserved being bailed out! If it weren't for the taxpayer money bailing them out were would they be ....NO BONUS!

I don't think anyone deserved being bailed out! If it weren't for the taxpayer money bailing them out were would they be ....NO BONUS!

Exactly! How is anything going to change if the governement just bails out everyone...no one will learn their lesson(big company bail outs and those defaulting on mortgages), fat cats will still run the show (big company bail outs), and NO ONE IS HELD ACCOUNTABLE!



RIJIMMY, you are comparing apples to oranges. I don't see how one is comparable to the other. AIG was bailed out from going bankrupt, not so they could still give bonuses to their employees. These bonuses are not the cost for doing business...a good employee would make sacrifices if he truly wanted to succeed or even have a job in this economy. Why is it that you think they are "owed" these bonuses? Bonuses are just that...they are given when a company is doing well and you have proven your worth. Well AIG needed to be bailed out, hence no bonus. I don't see what is confusing about any of this?

Exactly! How is anything going to change if the governement just bails out everyone...no one will learn their lesson(big company bail outs and those defaulting on mortgages), fat cats will still run the show (big company bail outs), and NO ONE IS HELD ACCOUNTABLE

No accountability because there were no stipulations on how the bail out $$ were to be used.

Everything has been-EMERGENCY_EMERGENCY.

No one in the Administration or Congress took the time to require a business plan
to be put forward before the $$ were released.

Poor planning, poor execution, poor follow up.

A bunch of dummies throwing our money at a fan. Idiots.

Some food for thought. Get over the initial anger and think.

I think we can all agree that mortgage companies and real estate brokers share responsibility for the current crisis. Part of Obama's plan is to pump $ (your money) into the housing market to reduce the inventory. Who do you think will be raking in the money from this? Mortgage brokers and real estate agents! So, if the AIG bonuses are so unfair, are the real estate commissions and mortgage commissions unfair too? Should the people who made tons of money causing the problem make tons of money on the solution too? Tons of YOUR money?

How about the construction industry? I dont think they were responsible for this mess at all, however, they will be receiving billions in money to "bail" them out, via the stimulus bill. Should they be paid overtime for their work? Or should they, as is being suggested of AIG employees, sacrifice for the common good? Do you think the unions would agree to that?

Food for thought. Like it or not, the only people who will save AIG, is the people working for AIG. These bonuses, just like mortgage commisions and union overtime is the cost of doing business.

I think the carpenters will be a tad upset at being comapared to AIG executives. AIG was thier own personal money pit to steal from and they did. 73 people received a million dollars or more. And those 73 people are complicit in running AIG into the ground. As long as we the public own the company, I say no bonus'. They can do whatever they want afterwards.

The difference is the bailout money for the banks was given to the banks to keep them from going under which, by rights....they should have let them! The stimulus money which will put people to work (supposedly....time will tell if this happens) will be used to pay for infrastructure so paying overtime is part of doing business! The AIG bonuses should not have been given because that money was intended to keep them afloat......not by them a friggin' yacht!!!! Bonuses are not afloat!! A company that would have gone under without that bailout money has no business what so ever giving bonuses!!!:realmad: We are supposed to be giving them another 30 billion dollars I heard????? I think that should not happen!!!:hs: Enough of this bull s-h-i-t!

The difference is the bailout money for the banks was given to the banks to keep them from going under which, by rights....they should have let them! The stimulus money which will put people to work (supposedly....time will tell if this happens) will be used to pay for infrastructure so paying overtime is part of doing business!

If the banks go under there's no credit to lend money to keep the other businesses running. Doesn't matter if you're big or small, unless you can run on cash you depend on a bank to keep things operating.

I'm all for bailing out the banks, within reason.

-spence

These guys deserve their cushy bonuses, but the poor schlubs who work their asses off for the state and make $60,000 a year don't deserve a pension. And yeah--as surprising as it may sound to you and others, there are people employed by the state who actually have to bust their asses every day.

You're a real pissah, Jimmy :doh:

I think the carpenters will be a tad upset at being comapared to AIG executives. AIG was thier own personal money pit to steal from and they did. 73 people received a million dollars or more. And those 73 people are complicit in running AIG into the ground. As long as we the public own the company, I say no bonus'. They can do whatever they want afterwards.

I saw that, not even worth the reply if you ask me, I've read enough rehtoric and nonsense.


JPI, our government went down the slippery slope a long time ago and by now it is so greased we will never get up the hill now. It really is depressing :hs: there wasn't any accountability for a long time and now they all have their hands out, it's disgusting and Americans should be fed up.

I'm just amazed that these friggin a$$holes fall all over themselfs giving away a trillion dollars and now they cry foul when their lack of oversight allows AIG to steal some of it. I guess they figure they have soul right to stealing from the American worker. Hypocracy at it's best.

Watch the pathetic grandstanding, as they show how much they care about your $$ today. I think I'll just puke now and get it over with.

Senator Chris Dodd (D-Conn.) on Monday night floated the idea of taxing American International Group (AIG: 0.9697, 0.1896, 24.3%) bonus recipients so the government could recoup the $450 million the company is paying to employees in its financial products unit. Within hours, the idea spread to both houses of Congress, with lawmakers proposing an AIG bonus tax.


While the Senate constructed the $787 billion stimulus last month, Dodd unexpectedly added an executive-compensation restriction to the bill. That amendment provides an "exception for contractually obligated bonuses agreed on before Feb. 11, 2009," which exempts the very AIG bonuses Dodd and others are seeking to tax. The amendment is in the final version and is law.


Also, Sen. Dodd was AIG's largest single recipient of campaign donations during the 2008 election cycle with $103,100, according to opensecrets.org. Obama was the second largest at $101,000.


Dodd's office did not immediately return a request for comment.


One of AIG Financial Products' largest offices is based in Connecticut.

Dod is now claiming that "someone" slipped this into the amendment.

Nearly every one of the democrat/stalinists that are outraged about this voted for it.

This is simply the right had distracting you while the left is doing something far more disturbing.


Hi Spence....:)

So maybe the Republicans who voted against this and all the bailouts had the right idea. Just a thought.
The Dems rushed through this, jambed it down the Americans throats, and now they don't want any responsability for the mistakes that were made. They can't do a f#$$ing thing right. Can we all agree on that?

swimmer, slip, big fish, mike P,

If you look at the tone of my posts, I am raising topics for consideration, not saying its how I feel. Think them through. I am not saying carpenters are the same as AIG. I am saying if you spend money to bailout, look at the consequences for your actions. I assume construction and others will get overtime as a result of the stimulus, no? So is that greed? Is that sacrifice? Thats what Obama is using against Wall St. For the record - I do not think the AIG bonuses were paid only to execs, they were across the board and that fact is being manilpulated for political purposes.
MikeP - I suggested looking at the state pensions and other state expenses as way to avoid the gas tax. In this economy we should look at saving and not taxing. State workers receive benefits that 99% of the population do not receive, and as state employees I and ever other taxpayer has a right to have an opinion. I have had a cut in my pay, my benefits due to the currect reccession, and if I now have to pay more money on gas, I think its a vialble option that the state reduce its expenses and that may mean impacting state workers. Sorry

If thegovernment takes the bonuses back, nothing will be sacred. That means they have set the precedent that they can and will sieze any and all assets.

We need to be ready when the O-bots come knocking on the door.

Jimmy, I know what you are saying but your comparison is all wrong, not even close. First of all, if and only if any large construction companies get any bailout money - that is a stretch to say that workers will be paid overtime with that money, even if they do spend some on overtime pay for one reason or another, so what? they worked hard for it and over 40 hours pr whatever, it's nothing at all like a bonus whatsoever. I thought a bonus was paid to you for excelling at your job so much that the company did well and prospered so they can afford to spread the wealth right? well the higher ups still getting bonuses in my opinion don't deserve that bonus at all since the company was tanking. You're not going to convince me otherwise.

I'm just pissed that my son turned 17 in 2008 and I am going to have to pay the federal government another 1000 bucks taxes this year :smash: I hate the thought of having to give them money to give away in a money grab, our government has failed us.

Slipknot, bonuses were originally for good performance, hence the term "bonus" because it wasn't something guaranteed. When the job market got crazy and people were jumping ship to go to other companies for more money, they started guaranteeing bonuses to retain "talent". The big bonuses at AIG are these retention bonuses, and as such are guaranteed as long as the person stays there until payment becomes due. There's probably something written into the contract that pays the person if they are terminated by the company before the bonus is due.

This will be a big wake up call to companies that pay these types of bonuses that aren't performance based. Especially in the job market that we are currently eperiencing, I doubt there are many companies offering huge retention bonuses.

just an fyi - I GUARRANTY that those same people have a non-compete clause too. That means that may be contractually bound to not work for any of AIGs competitors. Can we legally screw them out of their bonuses and then hold them to stay in their jobs?

thanks fishbones. then that is totally different then, it sounds like that is part of their pay. Semantics.it sounds like something like the nfl has as a signing bonus, guarrantied money. so nothing to complain about or compare to overtime then.

just an fyi - I GUARRANTY that those same people have a non-compete clause too. That means that may be contractually bound to not work for any of AIGs competitors. Can we legally screw them out of their bonuses and then hold them to stay in their jobs?

If that is true, then that is a very valid argument....but facts are facts and we don't have them. All of this is just personal opinions on everything anyhow...getting FACTUAL information seems to get more and more difficult.

just an fyi - I GUARRANTY that those same people have a non-compete clause too. That means that may be contractually bound to not work for any of AIGs competitors. Can we legally screw them out of their bonuses and then hold them to stay in their jobs?


What is discouraging is that everyone I know said that if we have to and in fact bail out these companies then until they pay the money back, we own them. And as such straight salaries only. I don't care if they get thier regular, regardless how high it may be. That being said thier is siomething to be said for giving them the bonus, which in fact they are do under thier contracts. A contract is a legally binding instrument and for our government to negate those instuments they are trampling on law established over time in hundreds, if not thousands of instances that we know as case law.
Paying those people should come out of the pockets of the U.S. Treasury department budget in whatever form it takes, because for Geithner to let this get by him, which I firmly believe is a lie to protect Dodds reputation, is just one more coverup of Geithners intimate knowledge of the entire debacle.

I know one thing. This is a hell of a smoke screen to take the pressure off the idiots that gave them the money to begin with.

Whoops there it is .. Taking these bonuses now is just the thieving, greedy attitude that got us here . These people have no clue ,, total disconnect with reality.. 1 million ,,4 million ,, 6 million dollar bonuses.. Smells of Enron,, when those greedy bastagdes took all the shareholders money in bonuses before tanking .. Only this time we're the major shareholder . USA tax payer .. These bums should be tried for treason of the USA and if guilty shot by firing squad . I bet you they were all Bush supporters .. Can't believe your defending them ..

ABC news this AM... stated 11 of the individuals who received a sizable "retention" bonus no longer work for AIG???

I heard a congressman reading the legislation that SPECIFIED that bailout monies could be used to pay any bonuses that were agreed to prior to February 11th. Congress on the ball once again, it was read before the full house and once again most of the elected officials complaining the loudest voted yes to the legislation.......
Will you people from MA please vote Barney out of office...

I was told the goverment now owns 80% of AIG
Is this true ?

I was told the goverment now owns 80% of AIG
Is this true ?

It's true. Do you think the government can be trusted to run the company? Talk about a no win solution.

The premise as posted to start this thread makes no sense. AIG gave bonuses to people who lost the company 100's of millions of dollars. This makes no sense..there's just no way. I always revert to what my granddaddy taught me...when all else fails use common sense.

I was told the goverment now owns 80% of AIG
Is this true ?

No ... you own 80% of AIG.

. Funny Stephen Lynch ripped Liddy a new hole .. I remember Stephen Lynch when he was a Local 7 Iron Worker .. " I'm a contract lawyer !!! Go try that on someone eles !!!

The political comedy is just too delicious. The very politicians who loaded the Stimulus with billions of pork, are now demanding that AIG return the Bonus money. Should Obama ask all the politicians to return the ear-marks?

Obama said it was his fault

and he's gonna fix it

Obama said it was his fault

and he's gonna fix it

Obama said it "wasn't" his fault, it was the former administations fault but the buck stops with him.

And the truth is.....http://www.cnbc.com/id/29763023

It was his fault

something is goign to surface that Geithner knew about these day 1. My bet, he is gone is 30days, Obama will say he is sorry, it was his fault. Everyone will forgive him.

New update. Dodd lies also. He helped write the amendment that allowed the bonus money. It's hard to follow because they are all dishonest.
It now appears that reading a trillion dollar bill may be important after all.

something is goign to surface that Geithner knew about these day 1. My bet, he is gone is 30days, Obama will say he is sorry, it was his fault. Everyone will forgive him.

Geithner's already admitted that he knew about the bonuses, but he wasn't aware of the size of them. WTF. Does he not ask questions when he's getting ready to approve giving billions of dollars to a company to help bail them out? Did he think there were just a few $50 bonus checks and some movie passes being thrown around? Now even the Dems are ripping him. He may be falling on his sword pretty soon.

Some food for thought. Get over the initial anger and think.

I think we can all agree that mortgage companies and real estate brokers share responsibility for the current crisis. Part of Obama's plan is to pump $ (your money) into the housing market to reduce the inventory. Who do you think will be raking in the money from this? Mortgage brokers and real estate agents! So, if the AIG bonuses are so unfair, are the real estate commissions and mortgage commissions unfair too? Should the people who made tons of money causing the problem make tons of money on the solution too? Tons of YOUR money?

How about the construction industry? I dont think they were responsible for this mess at all, however, they will be receiving billions in money to "bail" them out, via the stimulus bill. Should they be paid overtime for their work? Or should they, as is being suggested of AIG employees, sacrifice for the common good? Do you think the unions would agree to that?

Food for thought. Like it or not, the only people who will save AIG, is the people working for AIG. These bonuses, just like mortgage commisions and union overtime is the cost of doing business.

I want to work for jimmy. maybe I can get a $15,000 bonus for pissing on a client's head. :doh:

Geithner's already admitted that he knew about the bonuses, but he wasn't aware of the size of them. WTF. Does he not ask questions when he's getting ready to approve giving billions of dollars to a company to help bail them out? Did he think there were just a few $50 bonus checks and some movie passes being thrown around? Now even the Dems are ripping him. He may be falling on his sword pretty soon.
Considering the incredible amount of stuff on the man's plate, I can't imagine he has the ability to pay attention to every detail. As the exec trying to solve a strategic problem, the bonus issue is a smaller tangent that would be noise had it not erupted into a PR flap for Obama and the Senate.

A good leader doesn't let stuff like this be a distraction. It does appear that he needs more help though...

-spence

Considering the incredible amount of stuff on the man's plate, I can't imagine he has the ability to pay attention to every detail. As the exec trying to solve a strategic problem, the bonus issue is a smaller tangent that would be noise had it not erupted into a PR flap for Obama and the Senate.

A good leader doesn't let stuff like this be a distraction. It does appear that he needs more help though...

-spence

He's not supposed to pay attention to every detail, but he's supposed to be aware of them. Ultimately, it's his responsibility. I agree abou it being blown way out of proportion, but they all need to be extra careful about what is done from here on out regarding the economy. If Geithner hadn't already been under fire abou the tax issue, this would have been little more than a sidebar in the whole bonus flap.

that sounds like DeValle saying hack job hirings are trivial

Considering the incredible amount of stuff on the man's plate, I can't imagine he has the ability to pay attention to every detail. As the exec trying to solve a strategic problem, the bonus issue is a smaller tangent that would be noise had it not erupted into a PR flap for Obama and the Senate.

A good leader doesn't let stuff like this be a distraction. It does appear that he needs more help though...

-spence

He's got time to do Leno.

I don't want to hear it. If he doesn't want the job then leave!

Maybe he could get the Treasure some help. There's like 12 deputy positions with nobody nominated to fill them.

Obama is a real "the buck stops here" kind of guy.
I think that it's time that the working man (and woman) and taxpayer start informing themselves of the truth, rear up on their hind legs and bite some scums in the arses. Our labors and earnings are being stolen by self aggrandizing theives. I don't see them as failures at all but very successful thieves and con men. They have ruined countless lives with more in the hopper every day and demand a bonus that would equal the earnings of a lifetime for their victim. They claim that there is a contractual obligation due them. From who? Themselves of course. They wrote and agreed on this deal, made it legal, robbed their company blind, asked the UStaxpayer to cover thier losses. The Taxpayer is now a third party entity, who has no such obligation to pay bonuses as far as I'm concerned. Eff 'em.
We should have allowed AIG to collapse. Dozens of smaller companies would have filled the space left. The two trillion would have been enough to cover the funeral.

Considering the incredible amount of stuff on the man's plate, I can't imagine he has the ability to pay attention to every detail.

-spence



That's the problem he has waaay too much on his plate and
imho, the only thing he should have on it IS the economy.

If that is not solved none of his programs will be possible.

I seem to remember in the Clinton/Bush election the Dem slogan was,

"It's the economy stupid."

I think the American public is starting to wake up to that truth.