Every year, my wife and I toy around with the idea of getting the beach driving permit at Burlingame in RI. This year, my SUV kicked the bucket, may she rest in peace...

With a toddler and one on the way, my wife wanted a minivan. We got a Toyota Sienna AWD. It doesn't have much ground clearance though. I don't know squat about cars. Can I take this minivan on the beach? It seems to me I've never seen a minivan out there, just SUV's and pickups.

Thanks.

I am by no means an expert, but I believe the answer is no. the funny thing is, most places won't allow AWD's like subarus and such on the beach, but some subarus have more ground clearance and a more robust AWD system then a lot of the SUV's out there today

If you install a winch on it..

Seriously, I would not consider it especially with a pregnant wife and a lil one, doing so, would almost guarantee getting stuck, damaging the van and ending up with the wife mad at you and the lil one crying 'cause Mommy is kicking the crap out of Daddy.

If you damage the van, you'll never hear the end of it..

The tracks get so deep that you wouldn't clear many areas even if you could get traction.

just looked it up, the Sienna has 6.9 inches ground clearance and the Ford Explorer at 8.3 So that's kind of significant...

now the funny thing is subaru's aren't allowed but the forester's ground clearance? 8.9 inches the outback? 8.4 inches

so maybe the real issue is that they don't have real 4WD, although the new AWD systems are pretty damn close

I'm not a car expert by any means but if I'm not mistaken........AWD the wheels spin in unison where in 4WD they spin independently.

I assume you want to head into ninigret park? That sand is pretty tricky (very fine and softly packed) and in some places you might have two way trffic where you need to ride very close to the edge. You'll get stuck there and anywhere where the ruts are deep. I don't think youre van wil cut it.

If you plan to use it on the beach I can guarantee you will not successfully make the turn to get from the back to the front of the dunes from Ninigret. That gets so torn up that even people with 4WD get stuck there is they don't air down or drive stupidly? You will also have to airdown and that means even less ground clearance.

Interestingly there are places down the cape where you probably could successfully go on the beach with the van.

Better to stay off the sand if you have any doubts.

I have seen AWD vans (one maybe two) on the beach on the Vineyard. They had larger tires, which made them quite a bit higher than what they would be normally. I would listen to the above folks and err on the side of caution.

I'm not a car expert by any means but if I'm not mistaken........AWD the wheels spin in unison where in 4WD they spin independently.

I'm not a car expert either, but I believe these days, AWD is superior to 4WD. The way I understand it, AWD automatically adjusts power to each individual wheel depending on the conditions. 4WD simply puts 25% of the power to each wheel and doesn't adjust it at all, so if your rear left wheel is stuck, your only pushing 75% of the power to your other three wheels where as with AWD, 100% of the power would then be pushed to the remaining wheels to get you out! I think 4WD is generally perferred though, because the gearing is usually lower and the systems are just more rugged.


These days though, I think most 4WD cars have the option to add the "slip control" which essentially turns it into a AWD system, but you disengage that to turn it into straight 4WD for offroad situations.

Thanks guys!

Too bad, I never got my trusty ol' Pathfinder on the beach. She would have loved it. I have a tear in my eye...

No, you'll get stuck. I've seen three stuck and one of them was charged $450 to get pulled out on a Sunday.

No, you'll get stuck. I've seen three stuck and one of them was charged $450 to get pulled out on a Sunday.

And I'll bet you all 3 had at least 32 psi of air in the tires ;)

There were still a number of guys running 2wd RVs on Nauset, the last time I got a sticker. I don't know the current regs, but they allowed 2wd up until the mid 1990s and perhaps still do. If guys are getting out there in 2wd Winnebagos, you'll be able to handle the sand in an AWD vehicle if you air down properly.

AWD systems vary greatly. Some have different useful or not so useful functions. Things like no AWD in reverse or only engaging when slippage is detected can spell disaster in soft sand. My girlfriend has a Honda CRV AWD and we never felt confident enough in the drivetrain to take it on the beach and I consider a CRV/SUV more off road worthy than a mini van style platform.

You can drive anything on the beach, you may not get far. You need the 4 wheel drive system to be full time. The AWD will only kick in when your slipping. Therefore you risk the chance of getting stuck, and before you know it your all f&^%% up. I drove a GMC Envoy all over Long Island's beaches last fall. I also got really stuck a few times. Its no fun. 4 low is the only way to go. You also have to be aired out. I own a Sieana and I think it is a great vechicle. I would never trust it on the beach. :sled:

I dive my Explorer most of the time out of 4 wheel drive, like Mike said if you tires are properly aired down and you do the right thing like drive slow you should be fine.

NO - most beaches will state that all wheel drives are not allowed in their requirements. The clearance is critical on all beaches.

Tattoo is correct in stating that you can easily drive a beach with two wheel drive. We have been doing for toooo many years to mention. Low and slow will get you there. BUT it sure is easier with 4 wheel drive.

The dis advantage of all wheel drive is that it swaps the power from one wheel to another indiscriminately. You get buried one wheel at a time:tm:

I have been fishing the Westerly area for 35 years have seen some AWD on the beach by the pink house as at times that beach you can use 2wd down to the 2nd entrance but beyond that to the light house it gets pretty soft.East beach to Charlestown breach way forget it we run 18 to 20 lbs of air and you will need the clearance as the ruts can be really deep getting on the beach cant be a chore at times as it is always soft there.

that's made for it and have some fun

I would say no. In the unlikely event you don't get stuck (I think you will) you would probably wreck your AWD system. Many car "AWD" systems are not up t the same strength and punishment standards as a 4WD truck.

While I think a Subaru wouldn't get stuck (certainly as much as a Sienna) I do think you'd tear up her driveline (or at least wipe out CV Joints, blow headgaskets, front pipes, and every orifice a Subaru can and will leak through (I drove a Subaru & Toyota Service Desk for a while)

Does the surfcaster catalog still have the AWD Astro van in it? I was considering one a while back when i first got into fishing because i thought it would be a good vehicle. Then after driving beaches the past couple years, even without ever driving a AWD vehicle i wouldnt do it without 4WD.

Most of the early "AWD" vehicles--like Priestberger's Astro mini-van and my wife's Exploder--were actually full time 4wd, with power permanently distributed in the ratio of 60% to the rear wheels and 40% to the front. Same with Jeep's old Quadra-Trac full time 4wd. None of them had low ranges. The original Quadra-Trac Jeeps had a switch inside the glove compartment whereby you could lock the transfer case so that the front and rear axles would turn at the same ratio, but that was about it for tough going. I've run a Grand Cherokee, a small Cherokee, an old Wagoneer and a K-5 Blazer on beaches all over the Northeast and I've never had to drop any of them into low range. My current vehicle has never been in low range, ever. When I had a old box on wheels Trooper with an anemic 4 banger under the hood, I ran that in low range, but not because I had to to avoid getting stuck--I did it so I wouldn't be constantly driving in first gear.

Of course, I air down and I've been driving on beaches for almost 30 years, so YMMV ;)

I used low range because I wanted to put less stress on the engine pushing through the sand.

The original Quadra-Trac Jeeps had a switch inside the glove compartment whereby you could lock the transfer case so that the front and rear axles would turn at the same ratio, but that was about it for tough going.

I had a 78, the switch said only if all 4 wheels were spinning, I used it as a sank in a muddle puddle above the bumper in North West NJ. Left the muffler there, the only time I ever got mud in the middle of the roof of that thing it was the most powerful vehicle I ever had

I used low range because I wanted to put less stress on the engine pushing through the sand.

You shouldn't be "pushing" through the sand if you've aired down to the right pressure.

If you take your foot off the gas and your truck doesn't coast for more than a few inches, you haven't aired down enough.

I like my ranger but I miss my F-250. That being said the only time I ever had the 250 in low low was to tow some fool out that did not lower his tires to the prescribed amount.

Saw a big foot wanna be trying to get off the beach at high head. After a dozen tries, ripping the dune up and smelling some God awful metal burning. I ask him how low his air is ? He says 20 pounds and I'm not going any lower. I say you are gonna have a long nite, drive around him over the dune and leave him there.:doh:

Back a few years (ahem) ,I used to run Sandy Neck in Sandwich. It was great fun:hf1: To watch the AWD's entering the beach from the dunes, right at the corner. They would bury themselves up to their rocker panels and would probably still be spinnin their tires if someone didn't tell them to stop. I ran a Plymouth Trailduster With a 365 hog that couldn't keep gas in the tank and I always aired down to 14 psi. I would say 50% of the AWDer's didn't air down but , I never did see an AWD that could run the beach properly. On the other hand , I also saw a brand new Explorer get toasted by not airring down. Very important, get the air down so you're skimming over the top, not plowing thru it.:ss:

When I ran the Back we would air down to between 8 and 12PSI. 8PSI if it hadn't rained in awhile and the sand was real "sugary". 12 if it had rained and firmed up the sand. Always ran in low range in a 4WD and never got stuck but I sure saw a lot of guys get stuck because they didn't air down. This was before the rangers put in the airdown parking lot and there were no air pumps at the ranger station. We always carried a portable air tank just to add a few pounds to each tire so we could run to Nelsons and air up.
Mike P is exactly right. If you are aired down properly you can get in the track, put the truck in 4WD low and walk beside the truck. It will just creep along.

There always was a washout near Peaked Hill Bar that you would have to cross to get to High Head or the Clay banks. Timing was everything. We would time the waves and the surge and scoot across just at the right time if the tide had dropped enough.

One night we are all parked at Peaked Hill waiting for the tide to drop and this kid comes down the beach towing a boat. We told him to wait as the tide was too high and the surge was going all the way to the base of the dunes. Stupid doesn't listen and off he goes. Sticks the truck and the boat trailer. The boat slides off the trailer and the last we saw of the boat it was it was headed down tide to LeCount. We left stupid right where he was and told the rangers later that night to go winch him out.

One time we were at Smith Point on Nantucket when a kid came on the beach in his father's brand new explorer. It still had the sticker on the window and plastic on the seats. He had no permit , did not air down , had no equipment , etc. He got stuck at low tide in a spot that would have 3 feet of water at high tide. he wouldn't do anything we told him to to get unstuck. Eventually we just left him and went back to fishing. Finally as the water started creeping in , he all but got on his knees and begged for help. We deflated his tires , had him dig some , jacked up a wheel onto our boards and got him out in about 10 minutes.

When he broke free he made the mad dash off the beach without even a thankyou or good bye. That SUV came close to being totalled with less than 100 miles on it! :)

I used to run a cherokee with 31 inch tires on Nauset which was pretty unbeatable. I've been thinking about taking my 97 suburban out. It's got tons of power but I'm worried about ground clearance especially after airing down. Has anyone taken a 90's suburban on the beach? I've taken her on sand "roads" and dirt trails without a problem but I'm worried about the beach.

you should have no problem

what about air shocks for lift.... :huh:

you should have no problem

Thanks! Does anyone know what the current regs are for Nauset? Do we have to buy a Orleans permit and a National Seashore one in P-town? I know it's like $180 and they close the season all the time but it could still be fun.

I used to run a cherokee with 31 inch tires on Nauset which was pretty unbeatable. I've been thinking about taking my 97 suburban out. It's got tons of power but I'm worried about ground clearance especially after airing down. Has anyone taken a 90's suburban on the beach? I've taken her on sand "roads" and dirt trails without a problem but I'm worried about the beach.

That's cool, I'm driving a '97 Suburban myself.
http://www.mathewyoung.com/TRUCK.jpg

what about air shocks for lift.... :huh:

They don't left the chassis, only the body.

Thanks! Does anyone know what the current regs are for Nauset? Do we have to buy a Orleans permit and a National Seashore one in P-town? I know it's like $180 and they close the season all the time but it could still be fun.

Edited for stupidity.

2 Dozen people tell you it's a bad idea with explanations as to why. One person says "you shouldn't have a problem" and you're ready to go?

Good luck. Make sure to bring a tow company's number with you for when you get buried.

There are 2 separate people asking, one, in a minivan, that everyone said no way to, and CaptMike in a suburban. Suburban is 4wd and probably fine, like he was told by someone else, while the minivan........ is a definate no-no.

That's cool, I'm driving a '97 Suburban myself.
http://www.mathewyoung.com/TRUCK.jpg

Wow that looks just like mine except the color. Mine's black. I dubbed it the "quahog cruiser" in honor of Jimmy Buffett's "conch cruiser". How have you made out on the beach? Gotta love that chevy small block power!

2 Dozen people tell you it's a bad idea with explanations as to why. One person says "you shouldn't have a problem" and you're ready to go?

Good luck. Make sure to bring a tow company's number with you for when you get buried.

Yeah I have a much different vehicle than a mini van

Yeah I have a much different vehicle than a mini van

Oh crap. I'm sorry. I didn't look at the name, just the response.

no problem

Wow that looks just like mine except the color. Mine's black. I dubbed it the "quahog cruiser" in honor of Jimmy Buffett's "conch cruiser". How have you made out on the beach? Gotta love that chevy small block power!

Haven't tried yet either.. Usually carry all my crap, or take the boat. I think 1/2 the fun is walking back past everyone else with a nice keeper on your back.

Haven't tried yet either.. Usually carry all my crap, or take the boat. I think 1/2 the fun is walking back past everyone else with a nice keeper on your back.

I love the times I had this past season at the canal, carrying a good-sized keeper over the shoulder. The looks you get from some people when you walk out with one rod a small surf bag and a big fish are priceless. Especially when they have 3 rods, their canal cruiser and a whole box of gear with them.

There have been plenty of times I was in their shoes though with people hauling out huge fish and not a nibble for me.

RI CRMC has no regulations in their documentation of requirements for vehicles driving on the beaches as far as needing 4wd or not. they require that you have proof of insurance, you are the registered driver, and the vehicle is registered. you pick up a piece of paper and sign a piece of paper that says i know what the rules are and will follow them. those rules include equipment required to drive on RI beaches and the beaches that are allowed to be driven on.

with that being said, common sense tells you, as others have mentioned, that some sand trails and beaches have deep ruts. some of the turn arounds on the back tracks are quite deep and would have you on the chassis quickly. ground clearance is very important. air pressure is very important as well. i used to drive around a lot in 2wd, but my tires were well aired down. most of the people stuck get stuck due to not deflating their tires due to being lazy. one last note, a van or car w/ AWD were not built for that type of wear and tear. you will find problems quite quickly after driving on the beaches.

i woul double check burlingame as last i had heard they were not handling the barrier beach permits any longer. you would have had to go to wakefield or pvd.

Edited for stupidity.

what did i miss

I love the times I had this past season at the canal, carrying a good-sized keeper over the shoulder. The looks you get from some people when you walk out with one rod a small surf bag and a big fish are priceless. Especially when they have 3 rods, their canal cruiser and a whole box of gear with them.

There have been plenty of times I was in their shoes though with people hauling out huge fish and not a nibble for me.

you are leaving yourself wide open. . . be careful:devil:

you are leaving yourself wide open. . . be careful:devil:

Don't get me started.

There have been Suburbans on the beach since they started making them.

It's the fact that you really need to have 2 things:

1) Real 4WD with low range

2) Air down properly.

If you get down around 10 or 12 PSI you will not have a problem. I ran the Back from the 70s thru 2003 and never got stuck. I ran from Herring Cove to Coast Guard beach, depending what was open. Coast Guard can be a little hairy as you can (or could) only run it at night. A moon high tide could be difficult as the wash would be up to the base of the dunes in some places. Just use your head and there isn't a problem

My rule was, if i didn't thnik I could make it thru then I probably couldn't" and there is no fish worth sticking my truck for.