Man this is scary. please take the time to read the following commentary. So instead of bashing, do our resident Dems or Liberals support this? Tax, tax, tax, spend, spend, spend. Obama is beyond a democrat stereotype. He is going to bury this country! Does everyone realize how serious this is?


http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/03/gregg.budget/index.html

I realized how serious it was back in October, unfortunately the Sheeple followed the mainstream media..............

Can't wait till N Korea launches..........

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/03/gregg.budget/index.html[/url]

Sorry Jimmy, as soon as I see "Commentary:", I close the window. Not going to waste my time reading about another opinion with regards to the budget. I already read a dozen of them when the budget was first presented.

even a congressman that Obama wanted on his team?

Baaaaaahhhhhhh

See RIJimmy, you can't get through to them with reason,
instead of reason, we need to come up with a way to block the Obama channel they all seem to be watching.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX6ohMY0eNY

See RIJimmy, you can't get through to them with reason,
instead of reason, we need to come up with a way to block the Obama channel they all seem to be watching.....

The exact same could be said about you and Jimmy - making the statement that you're both unreasonable.

If you could get the details on his morning sh!t, you two would find some way of criticizing it.

You two have repeatedly displayed the position that has become representative of the Republican party, "I'm going to say no and balk at any action you make regardless of the action, topic or relevance."

The exact same could be said about you and Jimmy - making the statement that you're both unreasonable.

If you could get the details on his morning sh!t, you two would find some way of criticizing it.

You two have displayed the opinion that has become representative of the Republican party, "I'm going to say no and balk at any action you make regardless of the action, topic or relevance."

can you seriously direct that at me? I have gone to great lengths to express my own opinion based on FACTS that Obama is spending trillions, the AIG bonuses fiasco and the fallout, the tax implications, etc.. real issues, real impacts and you think I just randomly criticize Obama? HHow the F am I unreasonable???

I predicted the clusterf$%& . It's just happening faster and worse then I thought.
Misinformed people and wishful thinkers voted for him and disregarded what having full control to the Dems,and I mean the far left Dems. would create. It's scary to say the least.

you're unreasonable Buckman, you're just spouting republican rhetoric, pay no attention to the facts

can you seriously direct that at me? I have gone to great lengths to express my own opinion based on FACTS that Obama is spending trillions, the AIG bonuses fiasco and the fallout, the tax implications, etc.. real issues, real impacts and you think I just randomly criticize Obama? HHow the F am I unreasonable???

Issues with any of the points above are not unreasonable. I have my own reservations about many of them.

The utter barrage of nitpicking some things is unreasonable. As I have said before, I've always respected your opinions and they are always educated and valid, even if i disagree. But there was a good week that I stopped reading or participating in topics you started because they were the most minor variations of a half dozen other threads on the same topic.

so that just means I am a cornucopia of great information!

Almost sounds like he thinks you are smart as hell, except when you criticize Obama.

"I agree with you wholeheartedly except when I think you're full of crap"

so that just means I am a cornucopia of great information!

:rotf3:.... my girlfriend is looking at me with the expression of "what the hell is the matter with you? what could be so funny on a fishing website?":cheers:

Almost sounds like he thinks you are smart as hell, except when you criticize Obama.

"I agree with you wholeheartedly except when I think you're full of crap"

It's one thing to respect someone's opinion... it's a whole different thing to agree with him. There have been more than a few occurrences that I've agreed with him.... much of which having to do with welfare and the auto bailouts.

Man this is scary. please take the time to read the following commentary. So instead of bashing, do our resident Dems or Liberals support this? Tax, tax, tax, spend, spend, spend. Obama is beyond a democrat stereotype. He is going to bury this country! Does everyone realize how serious this is?
While I think everyone would agree that we have had a massive spending problem for some time, to say this is a "Liberal" or "Obama" problem isn't really on the mark.

1) Bush doubled the size of the National Debt under his two terms

2) The Bush budget projections were lower than actuals as they factored increased revenues from Bush's tax cuts expiring in 2010, and didn't include funding for the Iraq war which was done via emergency appropriations bills.

Obama has stated he won't do this to hide the costs of the war.

3) The CBO did estimate the 2009 deficit (not including number 4 below) to be about 313B higher than last year, but they also indicate that 250B of this is due to falling tax recieipts and additional spending on some government programs like insurance and food stamps which are due to the recession.

4) The real culprits of the inflating spending in 2009 are the TARP (180B), taking over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (238B) and the Stimulus Bill (185B).

The first two programs were initiated under President Bush.

5) The CBO projections also indicade deficit spending to be back to Bush 41 or Bush 43 levels in just a few years assuming the recession doesn't linger.

Hell, even Obama has stated that the projected spending for 2009 and 2010 isn't sustainable. Combine that with the fact that he inherited a good portion of the spending abuses that you're blaming him alone for...and it's clear that the argument we're on a new socialistic course just isn't true.

That being said, I'm all for the Blue Dog Dems to speak a lot louder, but let's put the issue into perspective and not just make noisy partisan bickering.

-spence

While I think everyone would agree that we have had a massive spending problem for some time, to say this is a "Liberal" or "Obama" problem isn't really on the mark.

1) Bush doubled the size of the National Debt under his two terms

2) The Bush budget projections were lower than actuals as they factored increased revenues from Bush's tax cuts expiring in 2010, and didn't include funding for the Iraq war which was done via emergency appropriations bills.

Obama has stated he won't do this to hide the costs of the war.

3) The CBO did estimate the 2009 deficit (not including number 4 below) to be about 313B higher than last year, but they also indicate that 250B of this is due to falling tax recieipts and additional spending on some government programs like insurance and food stamps which are due to the recession.

4) The real culprits of the inflating spending in 2009 are the TARP (180B), taking over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (238B) and the Stimulus Bill (185B).

The first two programs were initiated under President Bush.

5) The CBO projections also indicade deficit spending to be back to Bush 41 or Bush 43 levels in just a few years assuming the recession doesn't linger.

Hell, even Obama has stated that the projected spending for 2009 and 2010 isn't sustainable. Combine that with the fact that he inherited a good portion of the spending abuses that you're blaming him alone for...and it's clear that the argument we're on a new socialistic course just isn't true.

That being said, I'm all for the Blue Dog Dems to speak a lot louder, but let's put the issue into perspective and not just make noisy partisan bickering.

-spence

Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush some words Bush Bush Bush.

Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush some words Bush Bush Bush.
Your brain doesn't work on weekends?

-spence

Your brain doesn't work on weekends?

-spence
:rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:

Thats one of the funnier ones I think I have ever read here.

dont encourage him

dont encourage him

Ouch, stinging retort :yawn:

-spence

Bush did inherit a nice surplus, even Greenspan worried we might pay the national debt off too soon. Bush then used that as an excuse to cut taxes, Greenspan co-signed. By the end of 2001 his then secretary of the treasury was asking congress to raise the debt ceiling. Its been runaway spending ever since.

Bush did inherit a nice surplus, even Greenspan worried we might pay the national debt off too soon. Bush then used that as an excuse to cut taxes, Greenspan co-signed. By the end of 2001 his then secretary of the treasury was asking congress to raise the debt ceiling. Its been runaway spending ever since.

Didn't you read, mentioning Bush is against the rules. He has nothing to do with the present situation. It's all due to a fundamental shift in our countries direction toward socialism.

Besides, Bush had 9/11 and that changed everything.

-spence

Didn't you read, mentioning Bush is against the rules. He has nothing to do with the present situation. It's all due to a fundamental shift in our countries direction toward socialism.

Besides, Bush had 9/11 and that changed everything.

-spence

I think some of Bush's former constituency suffer from the political equivalent of battered wife syndrome. It was a very abusive administration, so its understandable.

My woman has the same problem with her first love. He was a really horrible guy, but she went from defending him to memory suppression. He was such a loser and he nearly ruined it for stand-up guys like myself. She's a work in progress, she has come along way but only because we've talked about it.

Didn't you read, mentioning Bush is against the rules. He has nothing to do with the present situation. It's all due to a fundamental shift in our countries direction toward socialism.

Besides, Bush had 9/11 and that changed everything.

-spence

This thread is a commentary on what Obama IS doing. Not the current situation and not the past. The current budget has the potential to further burden this nation, not only in debt, but it increases the burden on the FEW who are carrying all the weight. Spence will tell you that all Obama is proposing is the same tax rates that were under the Clinton admin, but that is misleading. Tax rates are not the only factor in "tax burden". Obama is also proposing reductions in itemized deductions (this is BEFORE) the tax rate is applied. So, some people that may have a lower taxable income as a result of the deductions, will no longer qualify, as their taxable income has increased! He is also lowering the amounts of people who barely pay any taxes. Once again, benefits those who "need" vs. those who "supply". This widening gap will soon put the taxpayers of this country in the MINORITY. Those who dont pay, will have more votes that those who DO pay taxes! Call it what you will, but he is creating a foundation for a society that will no benefit hard work.
Now - take into consideration all his social programs - health and education. Tell me - will any of the "wealthy" bearing the tax burden receive any benefits from these programs? No, but the increase in population receiving health care and higher education, will increase the DEMAND for these. As a result, the PRICES WILL GO UP, and who will pay these higher prices? The so called wealthy, who are already bearing the higher tax burden.

excerpt from the commentary:
Along with massive hikes in spending, this budget also implements the largest tax increase in U.S. history -- $1.5 trillion in new taxes over the next 10 years. For small business people, taxes are going to go up dramatically as a result of this budget; high-income people who donate to charity will face higher taxes, a change which will likely reduce charitable contributions; and anyone who turns on their lights in the morning will face higher taxes.

If the president gets what he wants in his cap and trade proposal, everybody who pays an electric bill or other energy bills will pay an average of $3,000 more in taxes a year for their energy needs. Yet none of these taxes will go to reduce the deficit. Instead, they will go to ramp up the size of government.

This thread is a commentary on what Obama IS doing. Not the current situation and not the past.
You sounded the alarm that "Obama's" tax and spend policies are going to bury us. I simply pointed out that this isn't all "Obama" policy we're dealing with.

It's not even political, it's simple math.

The current budget has the potential to further burden this nation, not only in debt, but it increases the burden on the FEW who are carrying all the weight.
And again you speak as if the "Obama" budget is a new poison. And the national debt is a burden on everyone, not just the rich.

Spence will tell you that all Obama is proposing is the same tax rates that were under the Clinton admin, but that is misleading. Tax rates are not the only factor in "tax burden". Obama is also proposing reductions in itemized deductions (this is BEFORE) the tax rate is applied.
From the actual plan...

Reducing Itemized Deduction Rate for Families With Incomes Over $250,000. Lowering health care costs and expanding health insurance coverage will require additional revenue. In the health reform policy discussions that have taken place over the past few years, a wide range of revenue options have been discussed -- and these options are all worthy of serious discussion as the Administration works with the Congress to enact health care reform The Administration's Budget includes a proposal to limit the tax rate at which high-income taxpayers can take itemized deductions to 28 percent -- and the initial reserve fund would be funded in part through this provision. This provision would raise $318 billion over 10 years.
People throw around that the Obama plan is "eliminating" these deductions when it looks more like they're just limiting the rate at which higher income taxpayers can take deductions.

At many companies the amount of benefits like employee matches and tax free expense accounts (i.e. child care, medical expenses) are reduced for highly compensated individuals. The idea being that those with more stand more to gain. These type of rules were put into place long before Obama.

This isn't any different.

This widening gap will soon put the taxpayers of this country in the MINORITY. Those who dont pay, will have more votes that those who DO pay taxes! Call it what you will, but he is creating a foundation for a society that will no benefit hard work.
Nonesense. The higher wage earners by all measures are much more likely to vote.

Now - take into consideration all his social programs - health and education. Tell me - will any of the "wealthy" bearing the tax burden receive any benefits from these programs?
Considering what the future brings I don't think you could be much more out of touch. Regarding healthcare it's perhaps the biggest unfunded liability and threat to our nation's long-term survival.

When all this wealthy taxpaying baby-boomers retire, who do you think is going to be paying for their medical care? Unless we improve the system today we're screwed. Obama has proposed cost savings measures like electronic records that have been labeled socialist by the Right. I don't think Obama's plan is perfect, but we need to invest in this while we still have time.

Regarding education, you only have to look at the numbers of engineers graduating in China to know that we need an educated workforce here at home if we hope to keep America the innovation center of the World. Schools are failing and college is barely afforable.

I agree that throwing good money after bad isn't a wise plan, but this is an investment that can pay off in spades if done right.


excerpt from the commentary:
Along with massive hikes in spending, this budget also implements the largest tax increase in U.S. history -- $1.5 trillion in new taxes over the next 10 years.
What's funny is that Obama's Stimulus package a actually contained the largest TAX CUT in history, 282 Billion in just two years.

If the president gets what he wants in his cap and trade proposal, everybody who pays an electric bill or other energy bills will pay an average of $3,000 more in taxes a year for their energy needs. Yet none of these taxes will go to reduce the deficit. Instead, they will go to ramp up the size of government.
Well, I guess this number did come from a "commentary" and not from any real projections.

Do you really believe you're going to pay 3K more in taxes under this plan? I don't.

-spence

Spence, your reply is pretty comical.
rationalization is the process of constructing a logical justification for a belief, decision, action or lack thereof that was originally arrived at through a different mental process. It is a defense mechanism in which unacceptable behaviors or feelings are explained in a rational or logical manner; this avoids the true explanation of the behavior or feeling in question

You really can't handle the truth can you? :lasso:

-spence

It is a defense mechanism in which unacceptable behaviors or feelings are explained in a rational or logical manner; this avoids the true explanation of the behavior or feeling in question

It is a defense mechanism in which unacceptable behaviors or feelings are explained in a rational or logical manner; this avoids the true explanation of the behavior or feeling in question

Are you talking about me or you?

-spence

shall I post the definition of "denial" ?

shall I post the definition of "denial" ?

Ok, so we are talking about you. Thanks for clearing that up.

-spence