How on is this :cens: going to go on?

Say a prayer for the Crew of Maersk Alabama, the latest victim of Somalia's pirates.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/04/08/report_mass_maritime_grads_on_hijacked_us_ship/

I just read an update that says that the crew has contacted their company and are back in control with one pirate captured. Hopefully the article is accurate and all crew on board is safe and unharmed.

Unfortunately, with such a big ocean and limited navy resources, the pirates are able to continue doing what they're doing.

How is the UN suppose to organize a locked down patrol and safety net of over 1 million square miles of ocean?

JohnnyD, I don't know.
I'm no fan of the UN, they claim to be peacekeepers I'd like to see some.
There needs to be a global effort to combat this common occurance.

JohnnyD, I don't know.
I'm no fan of the UN, they claim to be peacekeepers I'd like to see some.
There needs to be a global effort to combat this common occurance.

I'm think the UN is generally a useless assembly. However, there are global measures being put into place. The problem exists with the vast size of the area needed to be recovered. Ships are so small as it is very difficult to pick them p by radar unless the pirates are extremely close.

It is a problem of law. What law, who's law, and where. Solve that riddle Batman and then you can apply a response.

Now, the fact that the Sammies whacked an US FLAG ship, I hope to see them wind up in US court system (though that would probably be a lifestyle improvement).

Reports are though that they have the Captain hostage. Rumors are that some of the crew (officers?) are from Mass / Mass Maritime.

For the crew that took back the ship, where do you want your beer delivered? :cheers:

Hey Beamie - you out there? Look to hear your thunking on this. If you're not in town, least hope you were hangin' around the IDL instead of the Horn.

John R, there was at least one graduate of Mass Maritime on board. The kids father is a professor at MM who teaches a class that covers piracy.

John, you bring up a good point.

A major problem is that in their native lands, the pirates are seen as heros - robinhood types. They have support from the villagers and the government turns a blind eye.

what law? we have satellites that can see my house, we cant find the home ports and send some Apaches to sink their boats? monitor the waters and sink anything that moves near a ship? I know it sounds simple but come on. I have now have my entire cd collection on a thing the size of a calculator. We can do it.

60 years ago we were able to destroy the enitire german u-boat effort, with as much technology thats in my refridgerator.

RIJ - and when the pirates look and act like local fishernen or the local fishermen act like priates (gee the legitimate fishermen have AK's on board their vessels) who's village you going to blow away with an Apache?

Oh, now you have a MEU 40 miles off Somalia to support your Apache (well, Cobra actually). Now you've blown away a village by diverting upwards of 20 BILLION in equipment and 3000 sailors and marines to thwack some pirates in a couple boats.

Hammer, meet Nail.

Or, (sadly) get the Interneational Community to agree on a set of rules that everyone can act on :bsod::bshake::laugha:.

But, this being the first time US sailors on a US Flagged vessel were boarded, maybe this is time to reinstitute one of the primary historical missions of the US Navy. Anti-Piracy.

RUMINT on GCaptain (http://gcaptain.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1467) and EagleSpeak (http://www.eaglespeak.us/)

It is a problem of law. What law, who's law, and where. Solve that riddle Batman and then you can apply a response.

Here's the law:

IT DOESN'T EXIST

Here's the law:

IT DOESN'T EXIST


You're making my point

RIJ - and when the pirates look and act like local fishernen or the local fishermen act like priates (gee the legitimate fishermen have AK's on board their vessels) who's village you going to blow away with an Apache?
I think a lot of the problem is that the pirates often simply are fisherman looking for a more profitable line of work.

-spence

all those tankers have to do is lay a minefield of thumb tacks on the decks.

Maybe Halliburton can sell the gubmint tacks at $5 a piece..

Im serious by the way.. Those pirate dudes are always barefoot.

I think a lot of the problem is that the pirates often simply are fisherman looking for a more profitable line of work.

-spence
I would say it is the Warlords and psuedo tribal guvmints raising more money in Piracy than the "national" (chuckle) GDP. A failed nation and economy where the only law is the tribe and the warlord. Sometimes hard to fathom that something as broken as Somalia can have more broken internal parts. Damn shame.

(of course I just reread your post again, and yeh, probalby were once fishermen. In the same note, some of us would be Run Runners 90 years or so ago :tooth: . Still think send in the SEALS and "arrest" them.)

Still think send in the SEALS and "arrest" them.)

Yup, just let them do their job. :D

UN is useless.

Since January, pirates have staged 66 attacks, and they are still holding 14 ships and 260 crew members as hostages, according to the International Maritime Bureau, a watchdog group based in Kuala Lumpur.

But who cares, it only matters when there's Americans on board.

I think a lot of the problem is that the pirates often simply are fisherman looking for a more profitable line of work.

-spence

you truly are the most lefty wack job I have ever met.

John is right, the problem is the law, the international (read U.N.) law, that says you have to to be absolutely positive that they are pirates before you can take any action. Now the only way you ca do that is wait until they board and take over a ship, and then its too late. Now with this American ship its different, they have the guys AFTER they tried to take over the ship. Now if they can just get the captain back they can arrest these guys who just might resist that arrest (aw, too bad!)

I think it is time to take some pro-active action. If there is no law...it is a free for all and we are justified in protecting our assets.

I am not a high seas lawyer but it is time that those on board have weapons and are trained on how to keep people off the ship when in the open ocean. It would help if the UN established some laws...like, something as simple as staying 1000' away from ships while in international waters. If you approach closer...expect a warning shot, alarms and lights to go off and on-land officials are notified...if you continue on course the ships has the right to take whatever action it deems necessary to protect it self from boarding.

If they take someone hostage...send in the seals. Flush these scumbags. BTW, where the hell is Obama on this matter?

Would you sail the open sea's without weapons?

[QUOTE=Mr. Sandman;680463] BTW, where the hell is Obama on this matter?

QUOTE]


the captain of the ship is employed and makes 150K so Obama is not intersted in helping him.

I was just reading an article on this and there certain problems that are hard to deal with in dealing with these pirates.

1st, they are in small boats that deploy from a larger ship that supplies refueling.....think Independence Day.

These Boats, being smaller and a lot faster than the cargo ships, are on them before they even know it. Then if they do get spotted on radar they look just like the 100's of other small fishing boats that are in the area.

2nd, the reason a lot of the Cargo Ships aren't armed is due to the cargo they carry....these guys hit the oil tankers a lot to capture...can't really get into a gun fight while standing on a Gazillion Gallons of explosives.

these guys don't want what you're carrying....they want the ship for ransom. they get a ton of money from other countries to release the ships......

Their biggest mistake here was taking a hostage...they should have just got back in there boat and screwed.

BTW, where the hell is Obama on this matter?

Maybe he's waiting for the Air Craft Carriers and the Press to arrive so He can land on the Flight Deck in his neatly pressed flight suit.

what the hell can he do??? We've sent a Friggin Destroyer and the FBI there.....pretty sure that is a good response to a few guys in a rowboat.

2nd, the reason a lot of the Cargo Ships aren't armed is due to the cargo they carry....these guys hit the oil tankers a lot to capture...can't really get into a gun fight while standing on a Gazillion Gallons of explosives.

Lets all repeat after me:

I-N-S-U-R-A-N-C-E

Thats why.

Maybe he's waiting for the Air Craft Carriers and the Press to arrive so He can land on the Flight Deck in his neatly pressed flight suit.

Bush isn't in office anymore.

He can make a statement. He's shown the world how courteous he can be. Now show them how much he values one American life.

Bush isn't in office anymore.

That's why they did it.

[QUOTE=Mr. Sandman;680463] BTW, where the hell is Obama on this matter?

QUOTE]


the captain of the ship is employed and makes 150K so Obama is not intersted in helping him.

:bl::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao: LMFAO:laughs:

I hope it's over fast and we get our guy back safe.

Mr. Sandman, nope, I wouldn't sail the seas unarmed, not a chance.

the captain of the ship is employed and makes 150K so Obama is not intersted in helping him.[/QUOTE]



:kewl: Brilliant.

Its called Law of the Admiralty. I had an uncle, who while on sabatical from the air force as a pilot, got his law degree in admiralty law. I would guess that has somethig to do with pirates. On the other hand, four well-placed 20 mm cannons would do the trick.

This situation has gotten ridiculous. 4 pirates in the life boat + 4 sharpshooters + one pull of the trigger each = situation resolved.

We need to do the same thing to these pirates that terrorists attempt to the civilized world. Make it so frightening to go about their daily activity, that they wouldn't think twice about taking over a US flagged ship.

Piracy becomes less lucrative if these pirates are hunted down and destroyed. It's not like they can hid the boats they've hijacked, you can see the satellite pictures on google.

This situation has gotten ridiculous. 4 pirates in the life boat + 4 sharpshooters + one pull of the trigger each = situation resolved.

I think that would most likely result in a dead capt.

-spence

I think that would most likely result in a dead capt.

-spence

No one at all wants that, especially considering how close to home this may hit for some people. On the other hand, these pirates have already demonstrated that they cannot be trusted in a negotiation sense. An exchange for the captain was suppose to take place before the military got involved.

The pirates are desperate. There is no way for me to imagine the tension of the situation, nor can I imagine the weight of responsibility felt by those negotiating the situation. However, the pirates are sitting ducks and an immediate threat.
An example should be made of them like this Bank Robber that threatened to kill his hostage.
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/6007331/detail.html

Hopefully someone more educated can help me with something...
This area has been seen for years as a highly dangerous area. Why aren't there armed guards on these ships? Is there an international restriction or something to that effect?

I still can't believe Obama is quite on this. Reminds me of the attack of the USS COLE and Clinton. (Who did NOTHING and IMO is what lead to further attacks in the US and eventually 911)

I can tell you the Navy is being told to do nothing....believe me they want to kill the pirates, but the new commander in chief is calling the shots and being told to stand down and observe.

This is his first military test and his lack of experience is shining thru. I give him a low grade so far. Even if this gets resolved today. Sitting in a life raft for days on end is not a solution. You need to take stern action to stop any other pirates on US ships.

Western flagged ships are paying ransoms...this is the problem...it's wrong..Just Kill the pirates and never pay ransom again. Try not to kill a US citizen but If someone dies on the process that is the cost we have to bear.

Hillary wants to capture them, treat them as criminals and give them lawyers...screw that, flush these SOB's once and for all goddammit.

(BTW, I believe the capt jumped overboard and began swimming towards the ship so he would be out of the way and the the Navy could shoot them...but they can't pull the trigger until the big man says fire and they probably could not get the go ahead in time . Should be standing orders, if you have a clear shot to kill them all, take it.)

This situation has gotten ridiculous. 4 pirates in the life boat + 4 sharpshooters + one pull of the trigger each = situation resolved.



Problem is it's a covered life boat.
However if the captain was able to try and escape by getting into the water,
you can bet the Seals could have gotten to that boat at night
and done their thing.

Gotta believe the Comander in Cheif hasn't given the OK.
Must be trying to prove you can negotiate with anybody.

Still hasn't said a word, come on this is rediculous.

Western flagged ships are paying ransoms...this is the problem...it's wrong..Just Kill the pirates and never pay ransom again. Try not to kill a US citizen but If someone dies on the process that is the cost we have to bear.


Are you going to go to Vermont and tell the wife and family of the Capt. that this is what had to be done and it's the cost to bear Jim?

I think it is a tricky situation; the Capt is not a soldier, but did volunteer to save his crew, so what liberty does the navy have with his life? The report was he tried to swim, but couldn't get far enough away and the pirates fired on him in the water so he swam back. Maybe thats the argument the navy should have been closer, I don't know.

My solution, tonight, send in a seal, drill a small hole in the bottom. Start sinking the lifeboat and see what happens. it's a long 300mile swim for the pirates...

I think it is a tricky situation; the Capt is not a soldier, but did volunteer to save his crew, so what liberty does the navy have with his life? The report was he tried to swim, but couldn't get far enough away and the pirates fired on him in the water so he swam back.
Bryan, we should blow that boat out of the water.

After all, it's not like they're going anywhere as they have no gas.

The longer we wait to take action the longer the Captain will still be alive. The US Navy has to be just itching to blow the Captain up, he did surrender after all, and his weakness has probably emboldened the terrorists. I read on newsmax.com that they're in communication with Bin Laden, and they have one of Saddam's fingers in a little box that they worship.

Obama should have known this was going to happen and should have had a destroyer escort for that ship before the pirate attack. At least he could have used his super powers and taken back the ship personally, but no, all he's done is send in the US Navy and FBI. Like what are they going to be able to do about the situation that Obama can't?

This entire situation wouldn't even be happening had we not elected Obama in the first place. That sent a signal to the entire world that taking from others is ok.

Obama is probally going to give the pirates first class tickets to new homes in Ohio where they can find real work. After all, it's not their fault they are pirates. It was the social situation that forced them into piracy. Had Clinton not left those Somalis would probably have WIFI and 401K's.

-spence

Bryan, we should blow that boat out of the water.

After all, it's not like they're going anywhere as they have no gas.

The longer we wait to take action the longer the Captain will still be alive. The US Navy has to be just itching to blow the Captain up, he did surrender after all, and his weakness has probably emboldened the terrorists. I read on newsmax.com that they're in communication with Bin Laden, and they have one of Saddam's fingers in a little box that they worship.

Obama should have known this was going to happen and should have had a destroyer escort for that ship before the pirate attack. At least he could have used his super powers and taken back the ship personally, but no, all he's done is send in the US Navy and FBI. Like what are they going to be able to do about the situation that Obama can't?

This entire situation wouldn't even be happening had we not elected Obama in the first place. That sent a signal to the entire world that taking from others is ok.

Obama is probally going to give the pirates first class tickets to new homes in Ohio where they can find real work. After all, it's not their fault they are pirates. It was the social situation that forced them into piracy. Had Clinton not left those Somalis would probably have WIFI and 401K's.

-spence

spence,

What'd you make that post for? Now the Right-Wingers don't have anything new to say.

Problem is it's a covered life boat.


Thanks, I didn't know that.

spence,

What'd you make that post for? Now the Right-Wingers don't have anything new to say.
Johnny, think about all the gas.

Had Obama not made the USA look like such a whimp, by challenging the EU to not just blame America (yea, right), we wouldn't need the US Navy and could save hundreds of Billions of dollars in defense spending every year.

We would be energy independent and the war against terrorism, the defining moment of our time, would be won. Islam wouldn't last long.

This would free up tremendous Federal resources to eliminate the real threats to my freedom. Gay love and an abundance of coal.

-spence

This is why I stay out of the Scuppers section....

This is why I stay out of the Scuppers section....

:rotflmao:

give the pirates the ransom, get the hostage off the boat and then destroy the boat, money and pirates on a primetime world wide broadcast. Could probably make the money back selling advertisements for the show.

give the pirates the ransom, get the hostage off the boat and then destroy the boat, money and pirates on a primetime world wide broadcast. Could probably make the money back selling advertisements for the show.

I think if this had a high chance of success they would have done it already. The handoff might be pretty tricky, it rarely works in the movies.

Sounds like more Navy ships are heading to the area and will block the boat from the wind pushing it ashore if necessary.

I can't believe Obama on this one. We're not running out of time and the Captain is still alive.

-spence

Johhny Depp should have been consulted.

Johhny Depp should have been consulted.

I love that character. Nothing says Disney better than a boozing zombie with an eye for women.

-spence

A few thugs in a life boat hold the smartest and brightest President speachless. After sending in the entire US navy maybe there is a lesson in preemptive measures. It's amature hour. Look out when he gets tested by a real power.

Pray for this guy please. If this captain dies, then we are set up for a National embaressment

A few thugs in a life boat hold the smartest and brightest President speachless. After sending in the entire US navy maybe there is a lesson in preemptive measures. It's amature hour. Look out when he gets tested by a real power.

I couldn't agree more. Bush would have just killed the Captain and the pirates, snickered at the explosion, and moved on to bigger issues.

The only way we can read Obama's position on this is simply fear, he's totally frozen. Thank goodness a real Republican (Gates) is there to order the Navy into action.

I mean, this is a very simple situation. Pirates = bad. Obama is proabably caught up in all that nuance about why the pirates are bad, what kind of therapy would help them etc...

-spence

If this captain dies, then we are set up for a National embaressment
Nice, now you're just projecting your own disdain for Obama onto the situation. When anti-war Liberals did this about Iraq they were accused by the Right of secretly hoping our troops would fail.

Sounds like you're doing exactly the same thing.

-spence

O At least he could have used his super powers and taken back the ship personally, but no, all he's done is send in the US Navy and FBI. Like what are they going to be able to do about the situation that Obama can't?

-spence

I forgot about his super powers... thats why I voted for him :lama:

Nice, now you're just projecting your own disdain for Obama onto the situation. When anti-war Liberals did this about Iraq they were accused by the Right of secretly hoping our troops would fail.

Sounds like you're doing exactly the same thing.

-spence

uh..you missed the "Pray for this guy" part.

In Obama's defence. he's had alot on his plate....

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2009/04/12/first_puppy_makes_splash_before_official_white_hou se_debut/

uh..you missed the "Pray for this guy" part.
I'm sure you want the Captain to live, but do you want Obama to fail? You seem quite eager to define failure.

-spence

I'm sure you want the Captain to live, but do you want Obama to fail? You seem quite eager to define failure.

-spence

I think if he does die, then yes, we failed him.
IMO, I think the failure was letting it happen to begin with. Sorry to rain on your Obama parade.

I think if he does die, then yes, we failed him.
IMO, I think the failure was letting it happen to begin with. Sorry to rain on your Obama parade.

How in the hell can over a million square miles of ocean be effectively protected?

It's like trying to say the Police are failure because a house in town was broken into and they didn't prevent it from happening.

I think if he does die, then yes, we failed him.
IMO, I think the failure was letting it happen to begin with. Sorry to rain on your Obama parade.
Oh...so now it's our fault.

You ok this morning?

-spence

In Obama's defence. he's had alot on his plate....

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2009/04/12/first_puppy_makes_splash_before_official_white_hou se_debut/

Wow, so now you're going after his kids and their puppy? And on Easter Sunday to boot...

-spence

It looks like the Captain has been freed and is on a US Navy ship. Not much news but it's sounding like the special forces had their opportunity to lay some smack down and pulled it off cleanly. That's got to feel good.

Obama should give the Capt. a Presidential Medal of Freedom for his actions to save his crew.

What a story.

-spence

they got him and he is ok. killed 3 out of 4 pirates

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/04/12/somalia.pirates/index.html

didn't see your last post there Spence

Awesome :kewl:

It looks like the Captain has been freed and is on a US Navy ship. Not much news but it's sounding like the special forces had their opportunity to lay some smack down and pulled it off cleanly. That's got to feel good.

Obama should give the Capt. a Presidential Medal of Freedom for his actions to save his crew.

What a story.

-spence


:agree: great ending on a great day

How in the hell can over a million square miles of ocean be effectively protected?

It's like trying to say the Police are failure because a house in town was broken into and they didn't prevent it from happening.

FYI JD, a US flagged ship is only in one spot at a time.

Captain free, prayers answered, Seals had their way. :)

Look forward to the details.

Its amazing what can be accomplished with Patience and a Plan.

1 Live Captain, 3 Dead Dumb-ass Pirates, 1 Captured Pirate who is supposedly the Brains (and i use the term loosely) of the group.

Job well done by all....

FYI JD, a US flagged ship is only in one spot at a time.

So are you saying you want our tax dollars to be used to provide escorts for ships owned by private sector shipping companies......yeah like you guys wouldn't get fired up over in the political forum over that. :rolleyes:

Fiscal yr 2008 US aid to Somalia was $319 million. Cancel those checks right now and put it towards the naval efforts. I do not want a single boot on Somali soil. Got to shut down the entire economy that supports the pirate industry. Much of it is businesses, like restaurants, set up by the pirates with their booty, to support the pirate operation.

Excellent work by all parties in the rescue. (now if the press would stop publishing the minute details.... for the pirates to review and prepare for next time...) But you gotta like the odds of a Marine sniper with a 35yd. shot.

From one of the retired generals on CNN;

Fixing Somalia is a 10-15 year project. Fixing the piracy problem is something that can be done in the near term....

Yup.:nailem::nailem::nailem: "appropriate force"

So are you saying you want our tax dollars to be used to provide escorts for ships owned by private sector shipping companies......yeah like you guys wouldn't get fired up over in the political forum over that. :rolleyes:

Thank you. He's the first person to bitch about tax dollars being wasted, but he wants Navy escorts for every US Flagged ship near Somalia?

I'm glad they killed 3 of the pirates. Make an example out of them. This is exactly what I wanted to happen.

According to all the whiners, Obama was going to chat with the pirates and see how he can redistribute the wealthy's money so the pirates could stop with their pirating. However, the order to send in the Seals would have to have been approved by Obama.

Also, I believe my suggestion that the Navy act in this way was shot down:
The three pirates, who were armed with AK-47 rifles, were killed by shooters who were aboard the Bainbridge, Gortney said.

Looks like my suggestions were right in line with what needed to happen.

Glad to hear the good news on the outcome of this.
:btu: thumbs up to the navy seals

Peace thru strength...not ransoms

You don't have to police the worlds oceans, you simply protect yourself...ie. kill those that appear to be coming aboard to do harm... ask questions afterwards.

Peace thru strength...not ransoms

You don't have to police the worlds oceans, you simply protect yourself...ie. kill those that appear to be coming aboard to do harm... ask questions afterwards.

CHECK!!!

Thank you. He's the first person to bitch about tax dollars being wasted, but he wants Navy escorts for every US Flagged ship near Somalia?

I'm glad they killed 3 of the pirates. Make an example out of them. This is exactly what I wanted to happen.

According to all the whiners, Obama was going to chat with the pirates and see how he can redistribute the wealthy's money so the pirates could stop with their pirating. However, the order to send in the Seals would have to have been approved by Obama.

I'm willing to bet the rescue was not done on the cheap. And yes. I want our defense $$$ spent on protecting AMERICAN interests abroad. I won't bitch a peep.

im on top of the world today. these are the things that separate Americans from the rest of the world, this captains courage should send a message to the world, minutes from being rescued he looked calm and collected as if it was only a matter of time until he was free. Very proud of my country today

im on top of the world today. these are the things that separate Americans from the rest of the world, this captains courage should send a message to the world, minutes from being rescued he looked calm and collected as if it was only a matter of time until he was free. Very proud of my country today

Yes, we should be psyched to know that pirates now know that its not worth taking Americans hostage, just shoot them.

Egypt and Yemen make insane amounts of money from ships transiting the region, where are they? Why aren't they patrolling? Why are we ONCE AGAIN expected to fix everyone else's problems?

yeah, waa, waa, waa
How come a bunch of guys in sailing vessels and 9 iron cannons were able to wipe out pirates 300 hundred years ago and now it ssuddenly the biggest issue for the most technologically advanced nation in the world?

We can do this, we can stop it.
from what I saw on the news, a bunch of journalists are walking around talking to the pirtates, they know what ports they launch from. I think we need a little deterrent like this......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqoF-Xu4gIw

I agree with you 100% on this......I was very psyched when they got him out safely.

im on top of the world today. these are the things that separate Americans from the rest of the world, this captains courage should send a message to the world, minutes from being rescued he looked calm and collected as if it was only a matter of time until he was free. Very proud of my country today

Egypt and Yemen make insane amounts of money from ships transiting the region, where are they? Why aren't they patrolling? Why are we ONCE AGAIN expected to fix everyone else's problems?

Ya, Italy is looking for our help with their piracy problems too.

Where are their ground troops helping us in Iraq and Afganistan??????

One way street.

Except for England, Ausrtralia, Poland and a few others we get nada, nothing
in support of our interests.

Let's not forget that the pirates still hold 100 hostages from previous raids.

It is annoying to me that the US is seen (by our politicians) as required to police the world. We should only be protecting our interests.

It would be significantly cheaper and more effective to place an armed security force on US flagged ships than to have battleships aimlessly patrolling over a million square miles of ocean.

I would like to see those pirates with their AK-47s and 15' tin attack boat try and board a vessel that has 2 sharpshooters and 2 other security personnel.

Let's not forget that the pirates still hold 100 hostages from previous raids.

That nobody seems to care about.

It is annoying to me that the US is seen (by our politicians) as required to police the world. We should only be protecting our interests.

Not only politicians but now the screaming right's desire to invade Somalia.

I would be significantly cheaper and more effective to place an armed security force on US flagged ships than to have battleships aimlessly patrolling over a million square miles of ocean.

Now this is inherently wrong, whether a warship is sitting in Norfolk or in the Indian Ocean, its costing money. Period. But mind you, would I want them stuck there when there's plenty of other capable nations in the region? No.

I would like to see those pirates with their AK-47s and 15' tin attack boat try and board a vessel that has 2 sharpshooters and 2 other security personnel.

Ok, so the pirates just stuff a couple RPG's into the side of an LPG tanker. Lotta good those sharpshooters are huh?

are "on the water" terrorists

and should be dealt with the same way
we deal with terrestrial terrorists

Ok, so the pirates just stuff a couple RPG's into the side of an LPG tanker. Lotta good those sharpshooters are huh?

to gain what? these guys are in this for $, theres no $ in blowing up a tanker. Johnny D is right on.

to gain what? these guys are in this for $, theres no $ in blowing up a tanker. Johnny D is right on.

There's money in it when you threaten to start blowing them up.

are "on the water" terrorists

and should be dealt with the same way
we deal with terrestrial terrorists

INVADE THE OCEAN! Oh wait...

Ok, so the pirates just stuff a couple RPG's into the side of an LPG tanker. Lotta good those sharpshooters are huh?

They're doing that anyway. RPGs are being launched at many of the vessels that use their "defense systems" - systems that consist mainly of high-powered sounding devices and water guns.

Accuracy of an RPG above 200meters is pathetic. Yet well within the range of a sharpshooter.

To these Pirates, raiding these ships is a minimal-risk job considering the profits available. There is hardly any deterrent. Maybe some of them will start thinking twice when a couple dozen pirates die at sea for attacking the wrong vessels.

They're doing that anyway. RPGs are being launched at many of the vessels that use their "defense systems" - systems that consist mainly of high-powered sounding devices and water guns.

Accuracy of an RPG above 200meters is pathetic. Yet well within the range of a sharpshooter.

To these Pirates, raiding these ships is a minimal-risk job considering the profits available. There is hardly any deterrent. Maybe some of them will start thinking twice when a couple dozen pirates die at sea for attacking the wrong vessels.

Considering its a 3rd world nation with absolutely nothing to gain other than through piracy, I doubt much other than real patrols is going to deter them.

So they get lit up, I'm sure they'll happily start shooting back and ransoming the cargo instead of the crew. Less hassle that way anyhow. And up until now the crews were treated pretty well overall. Thats out the door now.

Shipping companies don't want to pay to arm the ships nor pay for the liability. Replacing dead crew is cheaper than arming them.

Replacing dead crew is cheaper than arming them.

I disagree. Considering the real risk to these companies is an increase of insurance premiums after being paid out, I'd speculate that insurance companies would provide decreased rates for shipping companies that have armed details.

In a pure, cold-hearted business sense, I would guess that preventing the death of one or two crewmen and not having to pay out the insurance costs is cheaper than arming them.

I disagree. Considering the real risk to these companies is an increase of insurance premiums after being paid out, I'd speculate that insurance companies would provide decreased rates for shipping companies that have armed details.

This isn't your car having an airbag, this is arming and training or paying for a 3rd party extra crew to be on board. Expensive. Not gonna happen.

In a pure, cold-hearted business sense, I would guess that preventing the death of one or two crewmen and not having to pay out the insurance costs is cheaper than arming them.

What insurance? I doubt it costs them a dime if someone dies. American crewed shipping is a rarity in that region, most are from other countries.

Now this is inherently wrong, whether a warship is sitting in Norfolk or in the Indian Ocean, its costing money. Period.

Its a hell of a lot cheaper for a ship to be sitting pier side in norfolk than to be steaming around the IO. Do you realize how much fuel is burned by a destroyer when its underway.......not to mention just the 6 figure toll for going through the Suez Canal.

with the Pirates has changed everything!

the pirates have vowed they will kill all Americans now

so.... now it will be a shoot on sight deal-- I hope!

Its a hell of a lot cheaper for a ship to be sitting pier side in norfolk than to be steaming around the IO. Do you realize how much fuel is burned by a destroyer when its underway.......not to mention just the 6 figure toll for going through the Suez Canal.

Well that fuel is gonna get burned one way or another. They don't sit for long unless undergoing maintenance. And hey, its just tax dollars.

But yet again, why exactly are we being expected to patrol?

We have always maintained a presence in the IO...we should continue to do that. What needs to happen is that the shipping companies need to pay for a seperate security force dedicated to security on their ships and not try and have the crew worrying about it.

If they board another US ship, Security force withstanding, the Navy needs to respond and take them out if need be.

Not for nothing but even France stepped up this weekend and said enough is enough.

We have always maintained a presence in the IO...we should continue to do that. What needs to happen is that the shipping companies need to pay for a seperate security force dedicated to security on their ships and not try and have the crew worrying about it.

And they won't.

If they board another US ship, Security force withstanding, the Navy needs to respond and take them out if need be.

Well the crew will be dead next time. Then what?

Not for nothing but even France stepped up this weekend and said enough is enough.

And got one of the hostages killed.

Why aren't Somalia's neighbors patrolling?
Why do you expect us to do everything? Do you ENJOY your tax dollars being wasted on a 3rd world desert hell hole?

Do you need to attend remedial reading....where did I say I expect us to do everything.

I put the safety and security of the crews on the shipping companies.

I said we respond to a US ship....didn't say anything about other countries

Somalia's Neighbors??? Ethiopia and Djibhouti......Can't say why...don't know much about their Navy...:rolleyes:

I suppose you just handed over your lunch money when they asked too....

Why aren't Somalia's neighbors patrolling?
Why do you expect us to do everything? Do you ENJOY your tax dollars being wasted on a 3rd world desert hell hole?

Like you even said, the fuel is getting burned anyway isn't it?

Like you even said, the fuel is getting burned anyway isn't it?

Why should we waste it on Somalia?
There's better things to be doing.

Suez Canal makes Egypt alot of money.
This threatens their livelyhood there.
They can deal with it.

Why should we waste it on Somalia?
There's better things to be doing.

Suez Canal makes Egypt alot of money.
This threatens their livelyhood there.
They can deal with it.

Actually that would be the ideal situation, if Egypt had a decent navy, they certainly wouldn't get all uptight about blowing away the pirates. Unfortunately, it doesn't affect them economically, the canal is a necessary evil for shipping costs, so they won't make the effort. So its up to us and the other seafaring nations to put a stop to it, just like we did with the pirates of Tripoli a few hundred years ago.

Well, looks like another attempted hijack of an American Ship (delivering aid) off Somalia. Reported to shoot up the bridge with AKs and tossed a couple RPGs in.

Crew and ship not hijacked. Bainbridge was on scene afterward

:cens:

Well, looks like another attempted hijack of an American Ship (delivering aid) off Somalia. Reported to shoot up the bridge with AKs and tossed a couple RPGs in.

Crew and ship not hijacked. Bainbridge was on scene afterward

:cens:

While I think killing the pirates was necessary, they are going to start targeting American vessels. The pirates know they aren't armed, and until they are armed, this will continue.

While I think killing the pirates was necessary, they are going to start targeting American vessels. The pirates know they aren't armed, and until they are armed, this will continue.

Most shipping isn't US flagged so it really doesn't matter all that much.

Most shipping isn't US flagged so it really doesn't matter all that much.

Doesn't matter all that much? And yet another US flagged shipped was just attacked.

I guess it matters some.

Did someone really ask why Somalia's neighbors arent patrolling???? Am I the only one that thinks this is funny???

Is it your contention that this crisis could be averted with the swift response of the naval forces from Kenya and Djibouti?:wave:

Did someone really ask why Somalia's neighbors arent patrolling???? Am I the only one that thinks this is funny???


How much can Kenya, Djibouti, and Eritrea do? The Somali coastline dwarfs theirs, the equivalent of going by coast from Point Judith to Tampa, Florida - the long way. The US would have trouble watching that with out entire Coast Guard.

The US would have trouble watching that with out entire Coast Guard.

This is the principle source that many people are ignorant on - people have an attitude of "how tough can it be". John, you are dead on that the amount of sea that needs to be secured is vast. Locally, people can't grasp what "a million square miles of open ocean" is. They think that just because we are the most powerful nation in the world, we should be able to stop these actions completely because we're the USofA.

What people don't get is that this isn't a time of war with Somalia so there is only a very small risk to US interests. The percentage of ships being attacked is statistically minuscule compared to the number of vessels that pass through the oceans.

"But Americans are being attacked." Behind the scenes, I'd be willing to bet the administration's response is "So what?" The only reason any country has involved their Navy patrolling the waters is because of the potential economic impact to their own interests.

Send Madonna in there, she can adopt the pirates. Oh wait, we have the UN. I forgot how much good they have done for Africa in the past.

This is the principle source that many people are ignorant on - people have an attitude of "how tough can it be". John, you are dead on that the amount of sea that needs to be secured is vast. Locally, people can't grasp what "a million square miles of open ocean" is. They think that just because we are the most powerful nation in the world, we should be able to stop these actions completely because we're the USofA.

What people don't get is that this isn't a time of war with Somalia so there is only a very small risk to US interests. The percentage of ships being attacked is statistically minuscule compared to the number of vessels that pass through the oceans.

"But Americans are being attacked." Behind the scenes, I'd be willing to bet the administration's response is "So what?" The only reason any country has involved their Navy patrolling the waters is because of the potential economic impact to their own interests.

And one of the core Navy beliefs I'm told is that Navy will protect American Citizens and Commerce on the world's seas. Those people were doing just that. This is also the first instance this has come up in years. The Somali just don't care or concern themselves of that yet.

For several months a bunch of ships from US, Europe, Russia, India, and China have been patrolling the waters - mostly in the Gulf of Aden (China has sent warships to patrol further then they have for hundreds of years). Attacks there are down somewhat from this time last year. Attacks of the East Coast of Somali have increased. Go figure. Move, Countermove. Move, countermove.

The administration may have been "so what" or do what you gotta do. The on scene people made the immediate decision, likely in the confines of engagement they were given, and made the call. Executed amazingly. How that call for that instance plays out long term will be interesting to see.

Send Madonna in there, she can adopt the pirates.

:rotflmao:

Send Bono in with her :hee:

Its too bad Somalia doesnt have oil. If it did we could use this piracy crisis as an excuse to take over the oil fields :hihi:

Its too bad Somalia doesnt have oil. If it did we could use this piracy crisis as an excuse to take over the oil fields :hihi:

Hey, with the green spin on things these days, what is the accepted biodegradable alternative to tin foil for making hats these days? :hee: :rotflmao: :lasso:

If they had oil, they would have been invaded by someone else a long time ago. Oh, didn't the Italians invade them long time ago?

Go smoke some kaat :smokin:

The Somali coastline dwarfs theirs, the equivalent of going by coast from Point Judith to Tampa, Florida - the long way. The US would have trouble watching that with out entire Coast Guard.

And cover out to 700 nm. Maybe time for a marine version of Blackwater......

"and we'll need two carriers.....and maybe some jets, yeah we'll need some jets."

And cover out to 700 nm. Maybe time for a marine version of Blackwater......

Blackwater has already offered their services... at a cost of course.

Estimated cost for a security unit on board is $60,000 per trip.

very cool technology

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1891348,00.html?cnn=yes

Blackwater has already offered their services... at a cost of course.

Estimated cost for a security unit on board is $60,000 per trip.

A Hell of a lot cheaper than 1-2 Million in Ransom.....not to mention it won't be long before people start suing the companies for not providing a safe working environment

A Hell of a lot cheaper than 1-2 Million in Ransom.....not to mention it won't be long before people start suing the companies for not providing a safe working environment

This is exactly my point.

$60,000 compared to the $150Million in cargo many of the ships are carrying. I'd be willing to bet insurance companies would decrease their rates as well if they were given a certificate showing that a security force will be on board.

I've read that there are some international laws that might cause a hurdle.

the cost of doing business via cargo ship
just went up because of somalia's thugs

the exacto sniper rifle can shoot them

from 1 mile away

so.....they won't see it coming.....

"Quiggly down Under"..... LOL

but still this additional cost will eventually be passed
on to the consumer.

spence,

What'd you make that post for? Now the Right-Wingers don't have anything new to say.



Thanks, I didn't know that.

Johnny D-Leave Spence alone, look at all the hooligans he is giving something legitimate to do today. They might all be partaking in a tax protest today for the benifit of CNN 's ratings.

Johnny D-Leave Spence alone, look at all the hooligans he is giving something legitimate to do today. They might all be partaking in a tax protest today for the benifit of CNN 's ratings.

For three days now, these "tea parties" are the only thing I've seen on FoxNews.

CNN, MSNBC, Fox... they're all pathetic.

And what's the deal with that one woman on the Headline news channel that has been reporting about "Missing tot" and "Tot's mom" for 6 months now?? I've never seen her report about anything else.

This morning on the news they were talking about them "Tea-Bagging" at the "Tea Parties".........I found that rather humorous. I don't think they realized what they were saying

ya that lady is Obsessed with the tot Mom

she is nauseating.... just to listen too....

Wasn't she also responsible for the suicide death of some other "mother" she was trying to get rich off ?

Not to make light of a serious and dangerous situation, but.....

A Hell of a lot cheaper than 1-2 Million in Ransom.....not to mention it won't be long before people start suing the companies for not providing a safe working environment

Its like he read my Post..:hee:

Sailor sues over safety of pirated Maersk Alabama

HOUSTON – A member of the crew on the U.S.-flagged ship hijacked by African pirates sued the owner and another company Monday, accusing them of knowingly putting sailors in danger. Richard E. Hicks alleges in the suit that owner Maersk Line Limited and Waterman Steamship Corp., which provided the crew, ignored requests to improve safety measures for vessels sailing along the Somali coast.

Hicks was chief cook on the Maersk Alabama. Pirates held the ship's captain hostage for five days until the U.S. Navy rescued him.

Hicks' lawsuit seeks at least $75,000 in damages and improved safety.

Officials for Norfolk, Va.-based Maersk Line and Mobile, Ala.-based Waterman said their companies don't comment on pending litigation.

Hicks asked that the two companies improve safety for ships by providing armed security or allowing crew members to carry weapons, sending ships through safer routes, and placing such safety measures on ships as barbed wire that would prevent pirates from being able to board vessels.

"We've had safety meetings every month for the last three years and made suggestions of what should be done and they have been ignored," Hicks said. "I'm just trying to make sure this is a lot better for other seamen."

Hicks also asked the two companies pay at least $75,000 in damages, saying he doesn't know if he will ever work on a ship again.

"My family is not looking forward to me going back out to sea. But I'm not sure if I'm going back. I'm still nervous, leery. I might find something else to do, said Hicks, who has worked 32 years as a merchant seaman.

"We think (the companies) should be more concerned about the personnel on their ships than the profits the companies make," said Terry Bryant, Hicks' attorney.

Both companies do business in Texas, which is why the suit was filed in Houston, he said.

Pirates took over the Alabama on April 8 before Capt. Richard Phillips surrendered himself in exchange for the safety of his 19-member crew. The captain was taken on a lifeboat and held hostage for five days before U.S. Navy SEAL snipers on the destroyer USS Bainbridge killed three of his captors and freed him.

Hicks said crew members have been trained on what to do if pirates or others threaten the ship.

"We need more than training," said the 53-year-old who lives in Royal Palm Beach, Fla., and has two grown sons. "I never thought nothing like this would ever happen."

Hicks said pirates had tried to board the ship two other times that week, but the Alabama had managed to outrun them. But on April 8, as Hicks was preparing food for the crew, the ship's alarm rang and the captain announced the ship was being boarded by pirates.

Hicks and the other crew members went to their designated safety room, which was the engine room, and they waited there for more than 12 hours in 125 degree heat.

"I didn't know if I was going to live or die," Hicks said.

The crew managed to take a pirate hostage, wounding him with an ice pick, and attempted to use him to get back Phillips. But the bandits fled the ship with Phillips as their captive, holding him in the lifeboat until the SEAL sharpshooters rescued him.

"He did a hell of a job saving us," Hicks said of Phillips.

But Bryant said the Maersk Line and Waterman share the blame for putting the crew at risk.

"We want to bring more attention to the shipping industry and the dangers in pirate-infested waters," he said