Opinions needed.
As many of you may know I have put my memoirs of surf casting Block Island into writing with the hopes of someday getting them published. I’ve had a few volunteers read what I have so far to get their thoughts and comments. One of the suggestions was to include more of the strategy I use when fishing various areas on Block. I was hoping to keep this project free of “How To” content as much as possible but in the interest of making the project “sellable” I may need to re-think my strategy.
I’m thinking about breaking down the island into sections and then discussing the structure/geology of each area, the ideal sets of conditions to fish it (tides, currents, winds, seasons), what to use and why, when to use it and why. Interspersed would be “hints” such as this example for the Southeast Corner of the island: “Some deeper water close to rock perches in this stretch. Work your plugs right up to your feet as many 40 plus bass here hit less than a rod length away.” I don’t intend to give away specific spots but refer to them like this “between Barlows and Vail Beach there is a bubble weed boulder field”. Smart readers may be able to figure out what area I’m discussing.
That said would you consider this type of writing “spot burning”? It’s very hard to write about a place without mentioning said place if you know what I mean.
Any thoughts?

DZ

The sorts of descriptions you mention seem like fair game to me...anyone skilled enough to use the information would have likely found these areas on their own anyway. And probably best to omit spots that are not open to all with a fair bit of room to fish.

Probably just best to stick to the generalized comments, like those examples you give, rather than "3rd rock from the point has a 40 lber 2 out of 3 nights in September".

DZ,

It’s your work and although some frown upon the discussion or mention of specific spots, it adds to the credibility of the work and helps paint a picture. Keep in mind this is your work, not the surfcasting public at large. Make it say what YOU want it to say.

Authenticity makes for an interesting and timeless read that you want to pick up over and over. First hand accounts such as story telling help accomplish this.

I personally would keep it as a memoir book rather than try to walk that in between line of memoir and how to. Maybe its just me, but a memoir book seams like it would appeal to fisherman as a whole, while a how to book on fishing the island would really only appeal to those planning to fish it who have no or limited experience over there (i could certainly use some tips from you as to how to fish it though). That would give you a larger, although still relatively small, target audience. I may be looking at things all wrong though.

Frank D's Striper Surf and Eastern Tides are not really presented as how to's, but there is a ton of information in there that one can use. Some would argue that he was too spot specific though.

I think your idea of including spots but not being that specific is an excellent idea. As you state, the experienced folks might be able to determine the spots your discussing while the people looking for specific spots might be disappointed (but will have already bought the book). Good luck

I would not write it by committee, nor would I let someone else tell me what's a good idea and what's not. I'd call the book stores on the island and submit it to one of them, they do small runs of island-specific books.
Zeno's books have done well because they represent his vision of what a fisherman wants in a book, not what an outdoor publisher views as sellable.

People will gleen what they want from the pages....some will walk away from reading it w/ an appreciation of the history, others w/ what the island brings to mind today.....and others will come away saying "Hmm, Needles and a can of Lime Green Spray paint."

If you can appeal to all these types when you write it....you'll have a winner.

But worry about what makes You Happy....its your book

Dennis, having read parts of Snowstorm Blitz as it's ben developed, I think you'd be doing yourself a disservice if you didn't delve into the methodology and how it developed which could be woven into the story line - which I don't think is exactly a 'how-to'. And as I remember it, you do that to a degree anyway, so just develop that aspect a little more if it helps from a publishing standpoint

The line-up of talent you were a part of during that period on the Block is a Who's Who of surf-casting - some of them are well-known today and many others are not. But there was obviously a synergy of technique on the Island at that time - and some held it pretty close to their vest from what I hear, while others did not.

I don't see why you can't discuss structure and geology in general and how that influences your approach on the Island without spot-burning accusations - hey, it's not like you're going to include an annotated map - and a truly savvy guy using his head for more than a hat-rack will figure it out anyway

Ultimately, D. I always thought the best outdoor sportswriters/lecturers will teach you how to think, not what to think or where to go in an X-marks-the-spot-format and you've never done that anyway . You've always been pretty circumspect about
it

The Blitz is an epic surfcaster's story - you were there and a first hand account like that is priceless. I posted Church's account of his world record catch in 1913 a couple of weeks back and I never get tired of reading it -or imagine unearthing the first hand account from the Graves Point photo of 1881. How many surfmen have passed on and taken everything along with them...hey, not like you're getting close or anything...:laughs:

The Snowstorm Blitz really should be in print. Might as well face it, Dennis - as a participant and a witness, you're a piece of surf-casting history now

Me, I'm largely still just a piece of work....:rotflmao:

I would not write it by committee, nor would I let someone else tell me what's a good idea and what's not.
A good point.

I'd think about why you really want to include "how to" content and let that drive the format. If it's to sell books then by all means spot burn away and be very specific :hee:

From the little of the work in progress I have read (a few pages at most on BI a few years ago) it appears as though you were doing a great job of sharing the spirit and experience of your stories.

Perhaps sharing what you learned and why it was important...in context of those specific experiences...would make for more meaningful "how to" content without changing the objective of the book.

My favorite outdoor books are those that teach indirectly, just like an old hand will instruct the student by making them learn to think for themselves.

It's also quite possible that you're doing this already.

I can't wait to read more.

-spence

I'd also add bait / no bait / type of bait.
Tidal change.
Etc.

Don't do yet another how-to. Everyone who has caught a 40#er thinks they are an expert has written a how to book. As far as spots go...go ahead and talk about them. IMO spot burning is posting online that "I got 6 bass to 28# last night at Jim's Rock...you can park at pole number 47 after 9:00pm because they don't check...and oh yeah I got all the fish on chicken scratch bombers."
All spots have been discovered. Disclosing up to the minute fishing conditions are most of the problem IMO.

The problem with fishing books is to get them published you need mass appeal. Now how-to addresses that but IMO that song is played out. Enough with the how to. Unfortunately, the mass audience today likes dirt, scandal, sex, etc. I was disappointed with a recent book I read because I think the publisher had serious influence on the story line and the book concentrated way too much on the few negatives, only because it would be more appealing to masses. When in fact the positive aspects of the story would have been more accurate and appealing to me.

TO be honest, I like reading books like surf casters quest rather than how-to's. I like reading about what it was like back then in those old scribners articles and wishing I was there, but that is me. I think you could write a book on the history of needlefish but besides us fanatics, who would buy it?:confused:

I like your style. I think it stands on it's own. go with your heart, don't try to emulate others or reshape things to publishers whims who don't get it.

I agree with the idea that it's your book and you should write it how you want, if it comes from your heart, it is likely to be better than your trying to please everyone.

That said, I don't think there is anything wrong with your throwing in hints that a savvy reader can apply. Such as something like "we sharpened the hooks on our needlefish plugs as we got ready to hit the southwest corner, the tide was outgoing and the wind was in our faces, so our expectations were high."

Having only fished BI for 7 years now and only 2 or 3 times a year, I have learned alot on my own, I also learned alot from talking from you Dennis, and Joe Lyons.

Learning to fish that Island takes time and like any where we fish. It is what makes it a challenge like anywhere we fish, giving away the keys to the castle is imo not the way to go. Then again it isn't like Gooseberry Island or Nappatree point where anyone could just drive there.

I think it be alot more interesting if you interviewed some of the old salts that fished the Island in that time frame of the 80's Tim Coleman, Al Gags and some of your crew. the plugs that developed do to the massive fish and the fights they had in them.

How to books have been done to death

And I almost forgot, how tough it is to get to some of the better fishing spots, and it isn't for everyone. Like me a clutz who should stay on the sandy beaches

write YOUR book. if you don't want to do a "how to", don't do one. if you mess with your formula for mass appeal sake, then its just commercializing it and it may lose YOUR message. every book has an overall feel to it or not, that makes it good, or not. mess with the message you may mess up a good book. i personally am sick of how to books, but thats my .02. selling out spots is your call....any decent striperman should be able to scout, find and fish the right areas. whatever you do, good luck and i look forward to reading it. (by the way thanks for the eel bob demo at plugfest)

You can keep it generalized, but I wouldn't be too concerned about spot burning, since it appears to me that your goal is to entertain, enlighten and educate. Anyone wanting to find thier own "spot" would be able to do so using the information they will find, not so much what you supplied. As my godfather taught me, being shown a spot is one thing, but finding one on your own is something completely different. I've learned to appreciate the skills needed to become successful without having someone do all the legwork for me.
Good luck with you memoirs:claps::agree::claps:

this is a rough one dz. kind of damm if you do, damm if you don't. imo, i would tend to keep it in general as far as spots go. what to use is a whole different kettle of fish. pun intended. keep with the general thought of what to use and how. no matter how much i think i know, there is always room for improvement love to read about the times the fish were here. maybe i'm just a sucker for the good old days. a toughie. good luck

I agree with Clogston in that a "memoir" form is alot more enjoyable "at least to me" than a "how to". All of my favorite fishing reads from "Surfcasters Quest" to Frank Daignaults books to all the others there are too many to name have been the authors memoirs on his personal fishing experiences....places they fished, characters they fished with, great days/nights or trips they had (your Snowstorm Blitz story for example) I find these types of books a much better read than a how to fish book. Just my .02 cents for what its worth. Good luck DZ.....I am sure which ever direction you take it will be a winner!:uhuh:

I am looking forward to reading your book. Your seminars are always interesting.
As an aside, the abundance of present sand eels in the RI sound may result in another epic blitz under perfect conditions. If this occurs it would make an interesting closing chapter that is if it is of similar magnitude.
Posted from my iPhone/Mobile device

There are ever fewer special places, hallowed ground as it were, available for the surfcasting enthusiast to aspire to fish. These places, and there is no mistaking that Block is one of them, are deserving of awe, respect, and protection. Let the reader glean knowledge from your recounting of the glory days, but please don't play the role of Pied Piper with a ‘how to’ book.

Thanks,

Jon

Surfcasters Quest is by far my favorite fishing book and it is a memoir. There is no need for another how to book. We live in a got to have it now world where no one wants to put the time in to learn how to fish on their own. I learned how to fish BI on my own. I went there and started off in the easy access areas and eventually ventured further and further away from those spots. I remember how satifying it was to happen upon a cove during the day and find 20# fish feeding. I came back at night and did even better. For me this is where the excitment and reward is. Write from the heart.

Wow - great responses. I want to thank everyone for their opinions and PM's. This project began many years ago as a magazine article and evolved into hundreds of pages. Other than actually surfcasting the love of writing about it comes a close second in my life (after family of course). I'll print this thread as a reminder of the many different views that readers have. Thanks again for everyones help and encouraging words.

DZ

Ive been looking forward to this but please dont make it a stand here cast here type thing. I feel the individuals who write those sell their souls for $50 or however much they are paid for the article.

Dennis, do it the way you would like to see it, writing is an art and a writer is the artist, don't sell out and don't cave in to public opinion.
(of course why listen to me, which I wouldn't if you want to sell the project, I have done just what I mentioned above and now I don't write at all!)

I think I can speak for a lot of us when I say I can't freakin' wait to read this book DZ, no matter how you decide to do it.

Ive been looking forward to this but please dont make it a stand here cast here type thing. I feel the individuals who write those sell their souls for $50 or however much they are paid for the article.

Timber,
Just remember I still fish there, the only ones who get that type of thing are special friends/guests on the island. I won't shoot myself in the korker.

DZ

Write whatever you think is best & whats in your heart. Your many friends and fans will support you either way. In twenty years when you reflect on it, you'll know you did the right thing regardless of other peoples' opinion.

I personally think a good memoir will have a enough hidden secrets in it pages that it will serve as a how to. John Skinner's book "A Season On the Edge" is a perfect example of it, the more you read it the more little hidden gems you pick up on.

What ever you do, Dennis I hope the photo of you and Zeke holding up the 50's is the cover shot...:kewl:

It's a great picture - even if Uncle Zeke had the puffy hair thing going on...:hihi:

Hair - yeah, I remember that

Dennis- my favorite book is Robert Post's Reading the Water. It is not a how-to book and the famous Vineyard surfcasters were revealed as great personalities- the passion- the Derby-the lives. He makes you feel part of a brotherhood of casters. It was written during the moratorium and since they thought the stripers were going to be gone for a long time- they opened up a little on some techniques and spots.

So my advice is to portray the Island, the men and the passion for the sport in some way and you can't go wrong.

I cant tell you how many times I read the snowstorm blitz. Im looking forward to picking up your book and checking it out. Like you said, you still fish there so why burn yourself, write what you think would work. Im sure you have more nights that can be counted getting cows, a few of those stories, mixed in with general surf knowledge and itll work out fine

I think I can speak for a lot of us when I say I can't freakin' wait to read this book DZ, no matter how you decide to do it.

Ha Ha I already read it

The fishing world is crying out for a "how to fish BI" book. The memoir part is fun and adds interest.....but unless you have major literary skill stories alone quickly sound the same. I find it incredibly frustrating to hear story after story about ancient blitzes without some factual information that gives me a realistic hope of being able to fish the same water. Trying to redo Zane Grey would be a mistake. Write about what you know and love, write simply and try to make what you say helpful rather than embellished entertainment and I think you'll find an eager audience.

DZ, I remember a recent post of yours which described how you set out finding fish with plugs and only then switch to eels was worthy of the book. Believe it or not,people may value some anecdotes or how-to you can feel comfortable revealing.

Timber,
Just remember I still fish there, the only ones who get that type of thing are special friends/guests on the island. I won't shoot myself in the korker.

DZ

Sweet! Dennis 'ol buddy 'ol pal! :gh::love::)

Although it wasn't on Block, I'd love for you to include the story of the fish I saw you catch.:drool::wave:

Dennis, as you know, I have read most of your book. I agree with Mr. Sandman (I think he said it) All the spots are known. If you name them you will get vilified. If you don't you will also so do it.

So you state the SW Point or Black Rock or Dorries or Cow or Charlestown whatever. I wouldn't get as specific as to where the holes are between the rock or how far you can get on a certain reef without getting killed. Let the reader discover those facts for themselves but if you want to say the Snake Hole so what, everyone who has fished the Island more than a few times knows where the Snake Hole is and how to fish it. If they don't know how to fish it so what. It's marked on all the maps. let them figure it out.

Now The 4 Corners, that's a whole different story. You will not find that on a map and I can count on one hand the number of us that know where that beautiful honey hole is.

by writing a detailed memoir of past experiences, successes and failures, it also becomes a how-to in the process... the "how" comes from reading about what worked, what didnt, and when... the same information, presented in an engaging manner.

DZ.
In the words of my late Grandfather Red:
Asked where did you get him?
"In the mouth"

Keep it vague and us in the unwashed masses will glean what we can!

As others have said you have to write the book as you see it coming together. I agree that a "how to " approach has been done and you should write it the way you want. I wouldn't worry about "spot burning" you're selling this book after all, if you want to talk about certain spots you're welcome too since people are paying for this. On the other hand I doubt there will be many people wandering around the beaches of the block with book in hand looking for X marks the spot. For the most part people want to be entertained and maybe learn something if it's convenient. Write it however you want I'm sure it will be awesome!

Dennis
I went through a rejection process no man should go through. It was suggested to me to add clams, white buckets and beach buggy sections to make it more "selable"....oh year ,and don't make it too lure specific, you might leave a potential buyer out of the mix.
Screw them all...you got to write what it important to you...and nothing else. Regardless of what you write you will incur the wrath of few but you'll get a lot more "thanks for writing it honestly" emails.
You don't need to write about stuff you don't want to. If anything, if you are just writing it to "add" content and make it more attractive to broader audience, but your heart is not in it, people will see right through it. Stay the course and let your passion for an event or a place tell you what you want to share. Lord knows we could use a good read.
Screw the publishers too and do it yourself... much more rewarding to be in control of your own destiny. What is a publisher of fishing books actually do for you ? Book you on Oprah? I don't think so. My offer still stands to help you in any way I can, Heck, you can have my printer,designer and graphic artist. I don't need them any more
Whatever you do, I am certainly looking forward to what it should be a fantastic read

While I certainly enjoy some level of how to, I really like more of why someone choose to do something or why it worked. That said I think the memoir style book would be timeless while how to's loose their touch with "what's in"
If its a publisher / seller issue then I certainly understand as that is a major factor and maybe a sprinkle of how to would be worth it. Either way write want you want if for no other reason than you want to feel good about what you put out and if its 20 years in the making I certainly would never comprise for anyone or anything that I did not 100% have to. Last but not least its going to be a better book if you write what you want - think about the class and homework you liked vs the ones you hated. The difference in quality of ones work is night and day.
I wish you the best and will certainly buy a copy as soon as it comes out either way...

While I certainly enjoy some level of how to, I really like more of why someone choose to do something AND why it worked. That said I think the memoir style book would be timeless while how to's loose their touch with "what's in"

I wish you the best and will certainly buy a copy as soon as it comes out either way...

I like how JJ put it. I'm going to buy your book regardless, as are many, if not the majority of the folks that frequent this forum. I would appreciate info re why some something works and why you chose to fish there... why that particular spot and what made you chose a particular presentation. While I won't say that I wouldn't love to know what works and where, I'm ok with a more general observation. I hope I'll figure the rest out, catch some large and feel damn good that I caught them with a bit of my own smarts added in and didn't just follow the map to the x and dig, if you know what I mean. I may be naive here, but how many people that aren't serious surf fisherman that want to get better and are willing to put in time hunting fish are going to a) buy your book and b) visit BI to fish? Not many, right?

Finally, what will sell the book on a larger scale will be the stories, not X marks the spot. A heckuva story is key and while I don't know you from Adam, from the bit I've read you might have a few stories worth telling. I for one hope so. I'm planning on taking a few of Gary Soldati's plugs to BI next month and trying my luck. Hopefully I can find a few of the places I'll eventually read about in your bestseller!!!!!! Best of luck to you and the book.:soon:

Dennis,
I have only fished Block Island a handful of times in my life, but it seems like everytime I get off the ferry, you just get a sense that there is a strong fishing history on the island filled with plenty of great characters and strories. Stories that would definitely fill and make a great read.
I see plenty of cars and SUV's driving around the island with rods and reels sticking out; as well as large numbers of daytrippers who brought their setups over for the day. I doubt more than 10% of those people are fishing beyond the entrance to New Harbor, Old harbor jetty and possibly in and around the bluffs during the daytime.
That being said, most fisherman who are heading to the island to do some serious surfcasting; your target reading audience, are probably fairly aware of some of the general areas you may choose to describe in the book. Describing general fishing conditions and strategies for Area X and Y seems fine in my opinion. Providing details such as fishing the 8th rock on the left side of the entrance to Area X could be problematic. Just my humble opinion.

I hope you continue to make forward progress with this project, I would absolutely love to read something related to Block Island fishing regardless of the final format.

Dennis no matter what you write i am sure it will be a great read. I know you will never give a spot away to the rock in a public forum. In my opinion unless you fish the island already no book will make you do it to a point where you will be a bother to anyone. That island takes time to learn and more time to make it pay off. It just isnt somthing you are going to do in a weeks time of fishing no matter what information is available. One of the beauties of fishing Block is the island itself, how you can feel like your the only one on the whole island on the south side at night. It is a spectacular event every time you step foot off the ferry. As far as big fish water IMO there many other places that produce big fish more consistantly and with a lot less effort. I am missing it as I word process this post! Drop in, take a deep breath and a calm comes over you, at the same time the excitement as you anticipate what will happen on your very fist cast that night. I can't wait to read your book, Good luck!

Dennis no matter what you write i am sure it will be a great read. I know you will never give a spot away to the rock in a public forum. In my opinion unless you fish the island already no book will make you do it to a point where you will be a bother to anyone. That island takes time to learn and more time to make it pay off. It just isnt somthing you are going to do in a weeks time of fishing no matter what information is available. One of the beauties of fishing Block is the island itself, how you can feel like your the only one on the whole island on the south side at night. It is a spectacular event every time you step foot off the ferry. As far as big fish water IMO there many other places that produce big fish more consistantly and with a lot less effort. I am missing it as I word process this post! Drop in, take a deep breath and a calm comes over you, at the same time the excitement as you anticipate what will happen on your very fist cast that night. I can't wait to read your book, Good luck!

great post and well said. I have fished the Block every Fall for over 25 years and I know NOTHING!!! But, I get excited the minute I know I am going over.

I have fished the Block every Fall for over 25 years and I know NOTHING!!!

C'mon Pi! You know the "corners"! I bet you can tell/teach me a few things I don't know.


Thanks for all the comments from everyone - I hope to finish a project that will blow you all away.

DZ

:hidin:

Maybe, but not when it comes to "needles" you are the master!!

Yeah PI knows what every frigging rock on the backside of the island is...
Looking forward to the Book DZ

memoir style, anyone can write a how tooooooo.