1. Yes
2. No
3. Considering it

No - but if things were different in the fishery, I'd probably consider it... But it doesn't appear that it will change either.

No But I would if this was earlier in the century .

Sure, if I was comfortable with the plan to maintain a sustainable fishery.

1. A uniform plan up and down the coast that covers the whole population throughout its migration
2. A plan that limits bycatch mortality
3. A plan that protects habitat and water quality
4. A plan that protects the forage base
5. A plan that prevents a few people from harvesting the majority of fish
6. A plan that is enforced consistently and with sufficient teeth

Yah, if I believed that the majority of striped bass mortality came from legal commercial and recreational take and predation, I wouldn't mind putting some extra beans on the table.

But when I look at the threats that currently exist to the fish stocks, especially the bycatch and pollution and also the killing of spawning females and overfishing of the primary forage (bunker), I couldn't do it.

I'm not judging anyone who does... the quotas will be met whether its me or you with the license. But that is how I can make a difference, but choosing to practice catch and release, by handling the fish carefully, by not littering, etc.

I think striped bass is yummy, but I choose to do the same thing as a rec. Like I said, that's how I can help.

So, my answer is "NO"

I think the menhaden are a bigger concern than the stripers, we know stripers can rebound, but without the bait, this site will become DOG-FISH.COM.

Interesting....I have been thinking about this issue now for some time. Anyone who knows me knows in the last 25 or so years I have only taken a few table fish per year (something like 3 - 5) Which were consumed by me and my family/friends. I have taken a few big fish home as trophys as well. Like you I released most everything for the sake of "the fishery". But I think it is time to do something more.

I feel exactly the same way you about each point you mention. But as you say the quota's will be reached if you fish or not...so by you not taking fish commercially your actually NOT really helping (because the tonnage will be taken anyway)...Moreover you're actually making the situation worse....by putting MORE money in the pockets of the few guys who DO fish comercially, thus creating some reward for this act of reducing fish stocks.

How about all us rec's run down and get a commerical SB lic. and DILUTE the earnings of these guys to the point they give it up?

Since the "season" is based on tonnage...everyday that the quota is reached sooner...the LESS any one fishermen can earn.
As you say...the quota is going to be taken and these few guys are doing it only for the money, so...lets dilute them.

The commercial SB lic is a complete joke and everyone knows it. These guys are taking up to 40/fish per day for the measly cost of lic that cost less then a crappy fishing reel. And there is not much inforcement either.

I voted to be considering doing it . I really do not want to be a commercial fisherman but for 4-6 weeks in July....what the hell. You can pay for the license fees with a few fish ! 130 bucks for the boat 65 bucks for the indiv. lic. And for that you can get a free shellfish sea and bay scallop endorsement as well! With each fish I sell, I will be taking money out of the pockets out of the people doing the real damage...

Think about doing it...by commerical fishing for sb you could actually help wipe-out the sb commerical fishing industry buy realizing the quota in a very short period of time, flooding the market with bass therby dropping the price to squat. If no one is making any money these guys will be pissed and will give it up.

Like you said, they are going to take the quota anyway...lets take it in a few days!

I am a rec fisherman at heart and love to fish just like you and would rather see a COMPLETE CLOSURE of the SB fishing then allow ANY type of commerical fishing for sb. And I think most true recs feel that way too. Catch and relase was and is fine by me.

But since these guys are hell bent on squeezing what they can from the fishery...I want to do what I can to squeeze back a little.

Take a few buds out and load the boat with 40 bass! you will
A) enjoy yourself
B) Help flood the market (reduce the price)
C) meet quota sooner (shorten the season)
D) make a few bucks off the back of a stupid industry. (pay for gas)
E) All of the above will act to reduce the $ made by any one fishermen fishing for bass.

Go fish.

Now that sounds interesting.

Your idea is good in that it addresses the problem in the way nearly all problems need to be addressed.....economically. That said, I don't think it works, for the simple reason that it is not ecomically viable in the long term.

The only way that your plan works is for, year after year, commercial striped bass fisherman to lose money fishing for striped bass. This will not happen. Follow the logic below:

1) Lots of additional folks get licenses
2) Quota gets reached earlier, with less $$ per commerical license being earned
3) Some folks stop getting licenses
4) Price of stripers rises again
5) Go to step one

So, I think you end up back where you started, only you actively particpated in destroying the stiper stocks.

The more elegant solution, in my opinion, is tradeable quotas, similar to the solution that has been developed for some toxic emmisions. My guess is that if commericals could sell your quota allocations in a liquid market(financial exchange), it would be worth more to bait & tackle companies(or consortiums of those companies along with environmental groups) to purchase those quotas from commercials than it would be to keep them, catch the fish and sell them for market prices. I'd guess that the forces of economics would drive you towards a smaller, more sustainable commerical fishery, larger and healthier fish stocks, and a large and successful recreational fishery(and industry). This works because gamefish that are caught and released are more valuable than those that are caught once and killed.

Not likely, but it would work, I think.

Sandman,
I choose "NO." Why? Because striped basses are large mammals and they don't need to be sold on the market. Plus, they are beautiful prizes. I love catching them after hearing about their norierites. I would never commericalize it. Why? I have notice many commerical fishermen catch small stripers or hybrids and sell them in Chinatown. Plus, it would be a waste.

Hey, off the point, have you ever considered about eating a menhaden? :( -eech...

mammals?

poor choice of diction, christain? my bad, a FISH!:D

diction?

diction means a choice of words.

blitz...are you a comondity trader? again, interesting approach but it would never happen. You could never get mom and pop shops orginized to the point where they would "buy" commerical quotas...that is a dream...like a piramid scheme. they can't make a living now...you're not going to convince them that if they buy the commerial interests the rec will buy more bait!?!

The rec's biggest problem are there numbers....lets turn it into an asset. There are SO many more recs then commercials the commericals could easily be replaced by recs 10 fold+.
Dilute the SOBs until they quit. Once the price is a few pennies per pound and the season is down to < 2 weeks, they (the state) will have to either reduce the number of licences by raising fees and be selective who gets them (a VERY touchy subject to decides as to who gets them ie. legal issues). Raising fees for a 2 week fishery? (that is how they will think)

At that point (with enough public and political pressure) when you compare the rec vs commerical econoimics to society (ie the benifits to society that recs do vs the benifts to society that commericals do...as well as the relative harm each does to the fishery....they will pull the commerical interests altogether. There will be simply no way to justify commerical sb fishing...not a .25/lb for 2 or 3 weeks a year for the relative damage.

In the worst case, it would shine a bright spot light on this scam and perhaps a political type would take this on.

Lets put some pressure on the heart of the matter ....the $.

here is a link to get your SB commerical license:
in MA
http://www.state.ma.us/dfwele/dmf/CommercialFishing/lic_pdf.htm#application

in RI
http://www.state.ri.us/dem/programs/bnatres/fishwild/mffees.htm

with regard to SB being a fish or mammal... its a COMMERICAL FISH! make it a game fish and the fishery problem goes away. I am on YOUR SIDE my friend. Like I said I would be happy taking NOTHING...if the commercials take NOTHING. This way the fish wins (big time), the recs still fish and tackle industry related to sb stays alive.

Remember this...they are going to take the quota (tonnage) if you fish or not, the fish will be taken. The season will simply remain open until they are gone. SO...end the seaosn in a shorten period...this will upset them. big time.

/end of rant/

HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND!

So what can we do about it?

yes i would consider fishing for striped bass commercially.the biggest threat to the bass is the recreational fishing industry, if you look at the numbers. i hate to say it but the average person would lose money tring to fish commercially.

In Rhode Island, the rod and reel commercial season is less than two months, and then you can only sell 2-3 fish per day - depending on the year. The license will cost you $200 – so your first 100 pounds goes to that. Not much money is made by anyone unless they have a boat and are on the water a lot.

Many communities & people that once realized gain from the stripers commercial value now see far more money from the fish’s recreational value. The striper has gamefish status in all the New England states except RI and MA - no sale in ME,NH,CT. The commercial impact comes more from southern states.

In reality, every charter boat owner, tackle shop owner, website owner, lure manufacturer, taxi cab driver, ferry boat owner, motel owner, gas station owner, cities and towns that take in retail tax money, and a host of other commercial ventures that cater to sport fishing’s needs - are all commercially profiting from the striper. I do outdoor writing and shore guiding – so I’m profiting too. Technically, a lot us are commercial fishermen: we earn money from a fishery.

Joe - in the loosest interpretation of "commercial fishing", you're right :) .

As far as fishing in Mass & Rhody goes, the vast majoirty of the fish are taken recreationally. Now that's OK becuase 98% of the people fishing in Mass & Rhody are also fishing recreationally. Like LI VT said, the biggest Rod & Reel threat to the fishery is the Rec & that's right. Of course the rec in MA & RI is 98% of the fishery.

The difference between Rhody & Mass is big too. Sure they're both Rod & Reel fisheries (though Rhody has a pound trap too) but Rhody has a small & tight set of rules 4 fish per day and is open usually in June and September only with a quota of about 100,000 pounds. Mass has a quota of 800,000+ pounds and a 40 limit per day which gets blown thru typically in 5 weeks - sometimes longer & sometimes shorter. Their license is a bit cheaper too. Mass gets a lot more fish commercially fished for.

But the biggest commercial states in the northeast combined, do not harvest anywhere near as much as the Maryland, Virgina, & Potomac fisheries. they get a LOT more fish, and they get both big & small.

So hile I'm not a big fan of commercial fishing for bass - I'm not against it. I would like to see more done by both Rec & Comm to reduce the pressure commercially and improve the release recreationally. Also get rid of the netters that decimate entire schools of fish.

The last thing that should happen is the increase of quotas that is being bandied about in Ammendment 6 - that's moving backward & not forward...

Exactly how do they figure out the rec take on bass? Since the limit is one or two per day, and most fisherman release even that and only fews a few days per year...how do they count the number of rec caught fish? It seems to me like there assumptions are too conservative.
The commerical take is clear...While a first look at the numbers do indicate rec's take more, how do they really know?

One thing now one seems to talk about is the GOOD to society (per lb) recs do for the number of fish taken VS. the commerical.

I don't think recs do nearly the harm (with current limits and catch and release thinking today) that the numbers appear to make out.
Take the MV derby, for the number of fishermen and intense fishing perssure, there are not that many fish taken per man.

I want to do some research into this rec numbers....

you rideing a dead horse here. FACT..rec fisher people take 3 times the amount of bass com.'s take, this comes from the horses mouth , fisheries dept it self.......been threw this a hundred times before. com. fishers hook an line only mass, no nets etc. There are alot of com people around here that cheat like hell, save an freeze till the next selling day comes along. charter boats are no angles either. but you can arrest everyone, theres no place large enough to hold them all. ....Its nice to have something to beleive in an try to change, but you may as well try an shoot a hippo with a bb gun , it just isn't going to happen..........I heard that mass is going up to 106,000 lbs. but drop to 30 fish per day.......me I'd like to see 10 fish per day,,,,100,000.....then watch the cheating increase by all your friends................stay well.

2003 Commercial Striped Bass
1) Quota is expected to be increased in 2003. Note: regulations are subject to change pending the outcome of hearings in the spring of 2003. Current rules are: Min size is 34"; trip limit is 40 fish per vessel per day; commercial striped bass season opens on July 3rd; landings are only allowed on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday of each week until the quota is harvested; no commercial landings or possession of more than one fish per angler is allowed on Thursday through Saturday.
2) Some states require striped bass to be tagged. Dealers shipping striped bass to these states are responsible for knowing the regulations of each state they are shipping to and acquiring tags on their own through Stoffel Seals Company. An order form will be sent to authorized striped bass dealers in the spring
3) Quota monitored weekly. 1-800-532-FISH every Monday, regardless of whether you have purchased fish. You must record these purchases on the Dealer Transaction Forms or by computer and submit this information to the Division after the end of the season.
4) Striped bass may be imported into Massachusetts for wholesale and retail sale during December through March. All fish must be tagged bearing information on state of origin. Contact DMF for more details
http://www.state.ma.us/dfwele/dmf/CommercialFishing/quota_reg.htm#b

PS- The 2002 quota was 800,200 lbs. Rumored to be going up to 1 million lbs. or so.

Hey guys, are all of you supporting the idea of striped bass commerical fishing? Well, recreational fishing may be high, but look at their numbers...

I've decided to go commercial this year and check it out for myself. I want to post photos of a loads of bass in a small boat and get people upset. My response is hey...for 65 bucks you can fill your boat too!

sad but true.

Is that all you wanted to do? Just to upset people? So this is an entire joke? For $65? For what? I don't even have a boat!:confused:

the only way your going to get change is to put this in their face..this commercial fishing has got to stop.

I still have not found out exactly how the fisheries people count the rec take...no one asked me how many fish I took.
How many striped bass did you take last year? I bet if you into the numbers there is all kinds of hidden crap the pads the numbers. It can't be accurate.
Frankly I don't see that many fish being taken...most are catch and release.. I bet the rec "take" includes that are released.

Yeah, I agree with you. I wanted commerical striped bass fishing to stop. Well, I have to be blunt with you. I know a quite few stupid and dumb deaf anglers do SELDOMLY keep an under legal sized striper. I took less than 15 stripers last year because I just started. And most of them were small and released by me in Back River, Rockport (October 2002), and Onset Beach. I recalled there is a report in NY. A Shad commerical boat accidently commericalized 6,000 keeper-sized stripers on the Hudson River for mistaking them for shad with NET! And they bought them to the beach and boosted their catches. All I see was the stripers' eyes opened wide and mouths opened like Caulunky MacCloud kid from Home Alone movies. That's what a commerical fishing will affect stripers. In Japan, they harvested their fish well.

For the record on my tradeable quota suggestion:

I was not suggesting that Mom & Pop tackle shops would buy these...of course they would not. Here's who would:

1) Major tackle manufacturers (Penn, Shimano, etc)
2) Major outdoor outfitters (Cabelas, etc)
3) Boat & motor companies
4) Conservation groups
5) Consortiums of those listed above

I see no reason why these groups would not recognize the clear economic benefit to purchasing these quotas, up until the point that the price required was too high. Theoretically, that is the price at which a commerically killed bass is equal to a recreational bass. That is the point at which we should be, but are not.

Again, it won't happen, but it should. If you throw a rational solution to a problem out there enough times, maybe someone with some juice will notice eventually.

And no, I am not a commodity trader......but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. ;)

no, I am not a commodity trader......but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. LMAO :laughs:

Sandman - wish I had more time to think & reply on this one

for that, i agree with john. that last part made me laugh. I wanted the commerical fishing for strieprs to be stopped and promote more for stripers' survival rates.

Originally posted by Blitzseeker
If you throw a rational solution to a problem out there enough times, maybe someone with some juice will notice eventually.


In a ideal society one would hope so....That is why I am taking the reverse approach this year.

try other states because sometimes their size and creel limits may hurt striper's survuval rates. and promote them that circle hooks are a must and no more jack-ass hooks.

Can I address this rec take vs. comm take?

The rec take "SHOULD" be higher since recs make up well over 90% of the fishermen.

Why shouldn't it be that way???????

If striped bass our a resource to be shared, why should one individual be entitled to more than another? Lets not act like the two groups should be considered equal.

Let's say you have 10 fishermen. 9 recs, 1 comm. In Mass, on a given day during the season, the recreation "group" gets 9 fish, while the commercial "individual" gets 40 fish. On a given day out of season, the rec "group" gets 9 fish, the commercial individual gets 1. Can we paint this picture as unfair for the comms?

I am not against commercial fishing via rod & reel for striped bass.

But can we not defend commercial fishing interests by saying that recreational fishing is a bigger threat. Recs are the biggest group so obviously their take will be larger. Should a recreational angler be allowed to keep fewer fish so the comms can continue to harvest. There's only one number below 1 and that's zip. Is that fair?

When somone says that the rec take is higher, they are implying that the two groups should be even, despite the fact that the recreational group is overwhelmingly larger. When conservation measures come down, and a commercial fisherman points fingers at the rec side, they are implying that they personally are entitled to more of that resource than the next person.

This is my biggest point in the whole conservation vs. commercial fishing issue across any and all species. Why should a small group have the biggest affect on a public resource? If the fish are a "public" resource, than we should all have equal access to them.

You want to make things "FAIR" to everyone. One fish per person, per day. You wanna go sell your fish, fine. You wanna eat your fish, fine. You wanna release your fish, fine. That is fair. That is equitable for all parties.

I don't mind the comm vs. rec debate. I personally think that they can coexist. Let's reduce bycatch, stop obliterating the menhaden population, and improve the water quality, especially the Hudson River and the Chesapeake, where these fish spawn. Nobody benefits from these things. A company saves money by dumping toxic sludge into the river? 90% of the bunker population gets ground up into chicken feed or fertilizer? And lets stop harvesting spawners, preventing billions of eggs from being spawned.

Sandman, I definitely see what you are saying, but I can't do it. I just don't want to kill the fish.

I would love to see the bass get gamefish status. If you look at what florida did with redfish and seatrout and the millions and millions the recreational fishing brings to their economy. Those fish are everywhere and they realize the benefit those fish have recreationally far exceeds their commercial value.

Personally, I could care less if it became a catch and release fishery for everyone. I just love to fish and that would serve my interests 'cause there would be that many more to catch.

I just see so many other fights that might be more important overall. If we took care of the other things on the front end, the fish population would be so much healthier, it could support both interests.

Originally posted by schoolie monster
Lets not act like the two groups should be considered equal.


AMEN! (When I saw them break it into two groups...I said LOOKOUT...divide and concor

There is a article by Al Ristori (you may like him you may not) in the 1/30 fisherman in the Conservtion watch column called "Striped Bass Game Fish Push Begins"
In summary, the deck is stacked the against the recs and they will be exploited for the commercial interests, there is little you can do about.

The commercial fishing quota is back up to 100% of the base period in the 1970's when stripers were even more abundant then they are now. Can you imagine if the recs were allowed to take fish to 16" ....as many as you want?

I think the bass is too important to keep as a commerical fish and should be made a game fish.

He says there is a new move afoot with significant support to make striped bass a game fish status. (contact bigbass@maine.rr.com)
better yet, read your fisherman.

Schoolie...
I hear ya..but they are gonna take the fish ANYWAY, the fish are going to die no matter WHAT. Morally your right, I feel the same way but we have to be pragmatic. So lets at least take some money from their pockets...I know fisherman...I know they will feel and moan about that!

Also, lets get one thing straight...most of these guys going out there with rod and reel are no commercial fisherman. This is a bunch of part timers looking to scam a few bucks and everyone know it. Real commercial fish and fish hard...not just for 6 weeks in the summer. This licence is nothing more then ploy to take more bass.

so are you guys going to let them commericalize the striped bass? man, i don't like the ideas of it...

I think that the recs and comms (in this post refers to commercial striper fishermen) should stop all of the finger pointing. In my opinion the striper fishery will support both recs and comms. The comm quota is regulated and shut down once the quota is met. Yes I know that obtaining a comm license in MA is a joke, but what difference does it make if 100 or a 1000 comms kill 600,000 lbs of stripers. It's still the same number in the end. As far as cheating with comms freezing fish for the next day etc., the same principle applies. It is still a hard number that once it is reached the fishery is shut down. The biggest concern as far as harvest should be the act of hi-grading whether by comms or recs.

The biggest challenges faced by the striper fishery IMHO are the menhaden situation:
http://www.discover.com/sept_01/gthere.html?article=featfish.html

the mysterious disease running rampant in the Chesapekeake:
http://www.vims.edu/myco/index.html

and the gill netters and draggers that kill who knows how many millions of pounds of stripers as bycatch. This bycatch has to stop. Why is it that when numbers for harvest are thrown around by fisheries managers no one ever factors in the bycatch by commercial draggers and gill netters?
Just my $.02.

Well...I guess it's just a case of if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

I have been thinking about ponying up the sixty five bucks, but I was wondering what the normal prices for bass are, and is there always a buyer, and how accessible are they?

Comm fishing sucks. have fun turning into a zombe:smash: