Good morning,

Well what did you think? He's the magic man right? He's going to save us and there is nothing we can do.

Petty bringing up Bush's little trillion dollar deficit to a huge round of cheers.

A pathetic group of children we have in there right now. You must be proud

I thought it was pretty good overall. He certainly made the liberal argument quite well at the end.

I liked that he left the door on tort reform open (even if just a little) and stated in no uncertain terms the deficit spending wasn't an option. Even if this isn't very feasible, it will force the Dems to cut costs or face their own words come election time.

What I found much more interesting was the Republican response. Quite tame compared to the town hall chaos, and seemed to be more of a road map for how the GOP was ready to compromise.

If that's all indeed the case, this speech could go a long way towards a bill that actually makes some sense.

-spence

This guy scored some major dip %$%$%$%$ points...

Lawmaker?s ?You lie? outburst denounced - Health care reform- msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32767813/ns/politics-health_care_reform/)

-spence

Good speech, can't take that away from him. Starts with 2 sob stories
and ends with 1 playing on emotion. But you can't let emotions rule your thinking.

Not any details as to how this program is going to pay for itself without
adding to the deficit. His cost of 900 billion sounds oh so much better than a Trillion
which will end up being a lot more than a Trillion, guaranteed.
Sounds like pie in the sky.

If it's possible to find 900 billion in costs cuts why now and not before? As he said,
significant details need to be ironed out.

Two things i didn't like, a public option which will allow employers to
drop health care onto the public option, making for what will become a
large government program. Second the fact that you will be required
to have HC. Another Freedom taken away from the American people.

The funniest thing i saw was Pelosi's face and how fast she reached for
her copy of the speech when he said the plan would not include illegal aliens.

All in all pretty good speech with what appeared to leave a crack open
for negotiations.

I thought it was pretty good overall. He certainly made the liberal argument quite well at the end.

I liked that he left the door on tort reform open (even if just a little) and stated in no uncertain terms the deficit spending wasn't an option. Even if this isn't very feasible, it will force the Dems to cut costs or face their own words come election time.

What I found much more interesting was the Republican response. Quite tame compared to the town hall chaos, and seemed to be more of a road map for how the GOP was ready to compromise.

If that's all indeed the case, this speech could go a long way towards a bill that actually makes some sense.

-spence

Man, one of the best spence-isms I've read in awhile!
- stated in no uncertain terms the deficit spending wasn't an option.
- Even if this isn't very feasible

You applaud him for saying something, then in the next line say its not feasible!

Man, one of the best spence-isms I've read in awhile!
- stated in no uncertain terms the deficit spending wasn't an option.
- Even if this isn't very feasible

You applaud him for saying something, then in the next line say its not feasible!
It clearly was a calculated line, but ultimately it's a move towards the middle...and that's what counts.

-spence

If it's possible to find 900 billion in costs cuts why now and not before?
Bush was too busy increasing the size of the entitlement :hihi:

I think you need some reforms that can offset the impact of just cutting costs. This, if done right, might gain efficiencies that can offset the cuts without hurting the level of service.

-spence

This guy scored some major dip %$%$%$%$ points...

Lawmaker?s ?You lie? outburst denounced - Health care reform- msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32767813/ns/politics-health_care_reform/)

-spence

"This evening I let my emotions get the best of me when listening to the President's remarks regarding the coverage of illegal immigrants in the health care bill," Wilson said. "While I disagree with the President's statement, my comments were inappropriate and regrettable. I extend sincere apologies to the President for this lack of civility." WILSON

..this is an honest apology for a momentary lapse



"Because this has been ratcheting up and I helped contribute to ratcheting it up, I want to make clear that in my choice of words I unfortunately gave an impression that I was maligning the Cambridge Police Department or Sgt. Crowley specifically and I could have calibrated those words differently."

"My sense is you've got two good people in a circumstance in which neither of them were able to resolve it the way the wanted to resolve it," Obama added..

..this is a lying weasel sort-of not really an apology for a calculated "calibrated" remark...

saying "acted stupidly" gave the impression that he was maligning the Cambridge police?? no way....how could anyone have gotten the wrong impression?


Obama was lying...Crowley was not acting stupidly

it is frightfully disingenuous for Obama or anyone in leadership to suggest that they would not like to provide healthcare or any other government services to illegals or anyone else...of course they do...if they can't grant amnesty they'll be trying to figure out every conceiveable way to lump them on the pile of government dependents...it's who they are

it may have been inappropriate but it's about time someone stood up and called this clown a bleepin' liar....

"This evening I let my emotions get the best of me when listening to the President's remarks regarding the coverage of illegal immigrants in the health care bill," Wilson said. "While I disagree with the President's statement, my comments were inappropriate and regrettable. I extend sincere apologies to the President for this lack of civility." WILSON

..this is an honest apology for a momentary lapse

A lot of Republicans are pissed about this. But, I guess even the cheerleaders kept cheering when the Dolphins went 1-15; you've obviously been practicing your spirit fingers. If the situation was reversed and someone had done this a year ago, you'd be all over them.

it may have been inappropriate but it's about time someone stood up and called this clown a bleepin' liar....

Actions like that make him and the rest of his party look like a bunch of assclowns. This isn't the British Parliament. Actions like that aren't acceptable here.

He's a great speaker who had most of the people in that room swooning over every word. I can't remember in my life another president who came across so well when reading prepared statements. He definitely has a knack for getting people excited and bringing them together, whether he can deliver on his promises or not.

One confusing part for me was saying that healthcare will not be funded by taxes, but then compares it to public colleges and universities. Public colleges and universites are funded by taxes. I guess it doesn't matter anyways. If he says it, it must be true.:rotf2:

Actions like that make him and the rest of his party look like a bunch of assclowns. This isn't the British Parliament. Actions like that aren't acceptable here.

I think he made himself look bad, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that he made his party look like a bunch of "assclowns". Especially since all of the Republicans I saw interviewed about it condemned what Wilson did.

A lot of Republicans are pissed about this. But, I guess even the cheerleaders kept cheering when the Dolphins went 1-15; you've obviously been practicing your spirit fingers. If the situation was reversed and someone had done this a year ago, you'd be all over them.



Actions like that make him and the rest of his party look like a bunch of assclowns. This isn't the British Parliament. Actions like that aren't acceptable here.



I thought he was out of line and it was totally innapropriate. His foolish outburst did however, bring about THE most notable moment of the night. Nancy Pelosi's face following the outburst was absolutely amazing. If she could have, she would have had Wilson killed on the spot. It's that type of raw emotion that tells so much about a person. You get a brief glimpse (unless you have DVR and watch it over and over again) at what any angry and treacherous louse she is. It was great theatre.

A lot of Republicans are pissed about this. But, I guess even the cheerleaders kept cheering when the Dolphins went 1-15; you've obviously been practicing your spirit fingers. If the situation was reversed and someone had done this a year ago, you'd be all over them.



Actions like that make him and the rest of his party look like a bunch of assclowns. This isn't the British Parliament. Actions like that aren't acceptable here.

JD...I absolutely love your way with words..hey, how do you think Obama would actually handle speaking in the British Parliament?...without his teleprompter?

Bush was too busy increasing the size of the entitlement :hihi:

I think you need some reforms that can offset the impact of just cutting costs. This, if done right, might gain efficiencies that can offset the cuts without hurting the level of service.

-spence


Obama's HC will be one of the biggest entitlement plans ever and at the same time will take away another of your Freedoms of Choice by requiring you to have it.
While i didn't agree with a lot of Bush's policies, especially the spending, your:deadhorse:
It's getting old. I thought we were turning a new page? Where is the CHANGE in spending?

Obama has had 8 months to cut spending, and the only thing he's done is spend, spend, spend.
Where are the cuts??? Spending cuts are more important now,
with the economy the way it is, then ever before.

Obama's HC will be one of the biggest entitlement plans ever and at the same time will take away another of your Freedoms of Choice by requiring you to have it.
I plan to have healthcare for my family, so how is this limiting my freedom?

While i didn't agree with a lot of Bush's policies, especially the spending, your:deadhorse:
It's getting old. I thought we were turning a new page? Where is the CHANGE in spending?
Did you really expect Obama to take office and start slashing the Federal budget?

He's talking cuts now as a measure to gain bi-partisan support.

-spence

What about him being late for a "scheduled" televised press conference?

A lot of Republicans are pissed about this. But, I guess even the cheerleaders kept cheering when the Dolphins went 1-15; you've obviously been practicing your spirit fingers. If the situation was reversed and someone had done this a year ago, you'd be all over them.



Actions like that make him and the rest of his party look like a bunch of assclowns. This isn't the British Parliament. Actions like that aren't acceptable here.

I can remember seeing Ted Kennedy asleep at Bush's speaches and the disrespect by Pelosi was there for anyone willing to look. You people have short memories.

While I hate to see the office direspected it's a little late for the left to be concerned with this. Joe was just calling it like it is.

900 billion $$ and no tax money or deficit spending.:rotf2::rotf2:

I plan to have healthcare for my family, so how is this limiting my freedom?

He's talking cuts now as a measure to gain bi-partisan support.

-spence

You may or may not have planned on HC for your family, but NOW you'll have no freedom of choice.

Yes Spence, I wasn't born yesterday, I'm well aware of his and other's political games. :)
Unfortunate, they weren't elected by the American people to play games.:(

You may or may not have planned on HC for your family, but NOW you'll have no freedom of choice.
I don't think the actual law is going to limit my choices all that much. Considering the health insurance we have today, which costs in excess of 13K really sucks...I'm note one who's happy with their present coverage.

Yes Spence, I wasn't born yesterday, I'm well aware of his and other's political games. :)
Unfortunate, they weren't elected by the American people to play games.:(
It's all part of the negotiation process :devil2:

-spence

Its just 40 million more people on a federal assistance (40 million more votes for the democrats) program by any other name is welfare. Do you actually believe for one minute once the program starts it would be stopped because taxes need to be raised to pay for it?

I remember some pretty nasty moments when Bush was speaking. I can't believe that anyone thinks he is being truthful.

I wonder how many special little money projects for the repub's who vote for this are attached to this bill.

I remember some pretty nasty moments when Bush was speaking. I can't believe that anyone thinks he is being truthful.



It's funny how this is such a big deal, but when Bush was giving his State of the Union Address in 2005, it was perfectly fine for the Democrats (Pelosi included) to boo and heckle him. I wouldn't say that there's a double standard, but to me is seems like there might be 2 different standards depending on which party you support.:uhuh:

Public colleges and universites are funded by taxes. I guess it doesn't matter anyways. If he says it, it must be true.:rotf2:
Most public universities do not get much in the way of taxpayer support. URI only gets about 15% of it's funding from taxes - the rest it earns in tuition, patents derived from research, its endowment and contributions.

It's funny how this is such a big deal, but when Bush was giving his State of the Union Address in 2005, it was perfectly fine for the Democrats (Pelosi included) to boo and heckle him. I wouldn't say that there's a double standard, but to me is seems like there might be 2 different standards depending on which party you support.:uhuh:

heck·ling: To try to embarrass and annoy (someone speaking or performing in public) by questions, gibes, or objections; badger.

It's ok to boo, but it's a breach of decorum to heckle. Big difference, not a double standard. John McCain said what he did was inexcusable.

Most public universities do not get much in the way of taxpayer support. URI only gets about 15% of it's funding from taxes - the rest it earns in tuition, patents derived from research, its endowment and contributions.

You're right about URI, Joe. But, 15% is still a lot of taxpayer money. And most community colleges and many other 4 year schools don't have the research income that a school like URI has. Schools like URI also get a lot of out of state tuition, while many state schools don't get much at all.

And shouldn't you be trying to fix your computer right now instead of reading drivel from people like me in political forums? I just got an email from you saying you have technical difficulties. Get that computer problem fixed and sell some fishing stuff.:grins:

heck·ling: To try to embarrass and annoy (someone speaking or performing in public) by questions, gibes, or objections; badger.

It's ok to boo, but it's a breach of decorum to heckle. Big difference, not a double standard. John McCain said what he did was inexcusable.

Sure it was inexcusable, just as the Dems were in 2005. But back then Bush was president, so the Dems didn't have to apologize for their bad behavior. My point about a double standard is correct. Heckling, booing, mooning or being disruptive in any manner is inexcusable when the President is speaking.

My web host has to fix the problem - until then I can read the drivel. :)
I agree that you should not dis the pres but booing fits within the standards of behavior expected of a member of congress, heckling does not.
Shouting down somebody in a wheelchair at a town meeting is bad form also.

You're right about URI, Joe. But, 15% is still a lot of taxpayer money. And most community colleges and many other 4 year schools don't have the research income that a school like URI has. Schools like URI also get a lot of out of state tuition, while many state schools don't get much at all.

And shouldn't you be trying to fix your computer right now instead of reading drivel from people like me in political forums? I just got an email from you saying you have technical difficulties. Get that computer problem fixed and sell some fishing stuff.:grins:


Actually URI's 15% state funding is much lower than most other public 4year colleges of similar size and research status... it was 30-40% a couple of decades ago.... Everytime we write a grant 49% of the cost goes to overhead for the university, largely because of that... so to do 10K worth of science we have to write a grant for 19K.... seems silly, huh?

One of the smaller goals I was hoping to come out of Obama's term was changes to the funding of universities, colleges and comm. colleges (smaller goal than say Iraq, Afganastan and Health care; people aren't going to suddenly die on college campuses due to insurgent fire)

Unless they go to VA Tech....

This guy scored some major dip %$%$%$%$ points...

Lawmaker?s ?You lie? outburst denounced - Health care reform- msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32767813/ns/politics-health_care_reform/)

-spence

Hmmmm.......think the former Editor of the Harvard Law Review has figured out that there is nothing in this bill to prevent illegals from enrolling in the public option? Of course he has. He's a Liar.[/B] Wilson is a Patriot.

WASHINGTON, July 22 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- As estimates of the costs of President Obama's national health care overhaul soar into the trillions of dollars, the powerful House Ways & Means Committee rejected an amendment last Friday that would have limited the taxpayers' liability by ensuring that illegal aliens would not qualify for the bill's health care benefits. In a straight party line vote, the committee's 26 Democrats rejected an amendment
offered by Rep. Dean Heller (R-Nev.) to the America's Affordable Health Care Choices Act, H.R. 3200.

The Heller amendment would have required the federal government to use the database set up by the federal government for states to determine eligibility for welfare benefits to also ensure that illegal aliens do not enroll in the government-run public health insurance plan. It would also have barred illegal aliens from qualifying for tax credits to subsidize the purchase of private health insurance coverage.

The defeated Heller amendment would have required applicants for government provided or subsidized health care to demonstrate eligibility through the Income and Eligibility Verification System (IEVS) and the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) systems. Similarly, people seeking affordability credits from the government to subsidize the purchase of private insurance would also need to verify their eligibility through IEVS and SAVE.
These provisions would have effectively barred illegal aliens from receiving taxpayer funded health care benefits.

fact: Illegal aliens will covered, they have health care now and that won't change. Unless they become 20 million more dem. voters when they pass the McCain/Kennedy bill. In which case Obama didn't lie, there won't be any illegal aliens.

fact: Illegal aliens will covered, they have health care now and that won't change.
Did you guys read the label on the bottle your drinking from?

(Sec. 246) titled "NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS,"

The Heller amendment would be impossible to enforce without a National ID Card. Not having stronger measures doesn't mean the bill is covering something it explicitly excludes!

Today, and in the future an illegal can walk into a hospital and get care. But the plan as proposed won't provide "coverage" to illegals unless they break the law.

-spence

Steven Camarota, director of research for the Center for Immigration Studies, "The legislation states illegals won't get the affordability credits [to pay for their healthcare]. But Wilson's comment is correct in that the normal enforcement mechanism was excluded from the bill. I think that's the fundamental question."


Camarota's organization has estimated that due to the lack of enforcement provisions — which were specifically excluded from the legislation when it was being drafted — healthcare reform would benefit 6.6 million illegals at a cost of some $31 billion.


"In that sense it is disingenuous," says Camarota, "to argue that the bill is excluding illegal immigrants. I'm not going to say lie. It's disingenuous. It's not entirely correct. And that's a big deal."


Rep. Dean Heller, R-Nev., had offered an amendment that would have prevented illegal aliens from receiving government-subsidized healthcare under the proposed plan.


The House Ways and Means Committee nixed the Heller amendment by a 26-to-15 vote along straight party lines.

Many states give illegals drivers licenses, which will be sufficient to get free healthcare under the plan.


Critics also contend that millions of illegals already have counterfeit Social Security cards or other fraudulent documents. There also is no enforcement mechanism in the legislation to prevent illegals who use fake IDs from also obtaining taxpayer-subsidized health insurance.


GOP representatives introduced the amendment to provide a way to weed out non-citizens from the program.


A description of the amendment on Heller's Web site states, "The underlying bill is insufficient for the purpose of preventing illegal aliens from accessing the bill’s proposed benefits, as it does not provide mechanisms allowing those administering the program to ensure illegal aliens cannot access taxpayer-funded subsidies and benefits."


The Heller amendment would have required that individuals applying for the public healthcare option would be subject to two systems used to verify immigration status already in use by the government: The Income and Eligibility Verification System (IEVS) and the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) program.


The two systems cross-reference Social Security numbers and employment information to establish whether an individual is a U.S. citizen.


I believe the fact that they are "illegals", as you put it indicates that they are already breaking the law....

it is hilarious to hear this administration and leadership argue that they have no intention of insuring illegals....gimme a break:rotf2:

Many states give illegals drivers licenses, which will be sufficient to get free healthcare under the plan.
Health insurance under the plan would either be paid for, or subsidized through tax credits.

How many illegals do you know who file a tax return?

-spence

Health insurance under the plan would either be paid for, or subsidized through tax credits.

How many illegals do you know who file a tax return?

-spence

I thought the rich were paying for it ?...


how many illegals currently get countless government services that they are not supposed to get, thanks to the dems and advocates, sanctuary cities etc...?


"the plan"

which plan Spence?...Obama was running around yesterday talking about "his plan"..."my plan this...my plan that"...is Obama's plan in writing? can you show me this in writing or are we supposed to trust the word of a liar?

....and we know that dems love to sneak things in at 3am when noone has the chance to read them and then immediately run a vote through....

They will be covered... it will effect more then 5% of us.....it will add to the deficit....it will add to the tax burden, maybe not for you, but for others, I guess your ok with that....It will mean the Feds deciding on what you get and don't get.

I drink Crown Spence. Unless I want to put on a media circus to boost my ego and settle a race war. Then I drink Bud..

How many illegals do you know who file a tax return?

-spence

Exactly, they work under the table, never contribute or pay their fair share.

They will be covered... it will effect more then 5% of us.....it will add to the deficit....it will add to the tax burden, maybe not for you, but for others, I guess your ok with that....It will mean the Feds deciding on what you get and don't get.
Perhaps you should try reading the actual proposals rather than just the GOP talking points.

The Obama proposal doesn't apply to illegals.

The House bill doesn't provide taxpayer funded subsidies to illegals.

About the only way illegals could get more free health benefits with this reform is by expanding Medicaid through existing law (the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act) signed by Ronald Reagan in 1986.

-spence

When they sneak thru the McCain/Kennedy bill, there won't be any "undocumented aliens" AKA illegal immigrants.

What I really find insulting is the repeated attempts to rush through legislation that no one has the time to read (without an interpreter).
If these measures were truly "for the best" they'd give people a chance to read these documents.
I think these "bills" are finely orchestrated events, where the documents are loaded with so much crap that no one can understand them without a translator.
If I wanted to pass a bill/law quickly, I'd do the same thing: make it next to impossible for anyone to contradict the document because no one had time to dscipher it in time.

I keep waiting for Obama's nose to start growing like Pinocchio's:smash:

Perhaps you should try reading the actual proposals rather than just the GOP talking points.

The Obama proposal doesn't apply to illegals.

The House bill doesn't provide taxpayer funded subsidies to illegals.

About the only way illegals could get more free health benefits with this reform is by expanding Medicaid through existing law (the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act) signed by Ronald Reagan in 1986.

-spence

Then why shoot down GOP amendments that prohibit Illegals from free health care? It will be in the bill Spence. They will be covered. Obama's not going to miss this opportunity to add voters to his herd.
Believe it or not. Your choice, fairy land or reality.

Then why shoot down GOP amendments that prohibit Illegals from free health care? It will be in the bill Spence. They will be covered. Obama's not going to miss this opportunity to add voters to his herd.
Believe it or not. Your choice, fairy land or reality.

There is no way illegals with be *included* in the bill.

How about this... if there is explicit inclusion of illegals in the bill, food and beers for you and me at the Chieftain, my treat. If it's not, tuna trip on your boat?

There is no way illegals with be *included* in the bill.

How about this... if there is explicit inclusion of illegals in the bill, food and beers for you and me at the Chieftain, my treat. If it's not, tuna trip on your boat?

you are right....the bill will probably only cover undocumented immigrants...no illegal aliens...

hey, maybe Acorn should take the reigns of signing everyone up for Obamacare...they are doing a bang up job with home loans and tax advice for hookers....:uhuh:

There is no way illegals with be *included* in the bill.

How about this... if there is explicit inclusion of illegals in the bill, food and beers for you and me at the Chieftain, my treat. If it's not, tuna trip on your boat?

They just won't be illegals by then or they just won't be excluded. You know how the games played JD. We heard the same thing about Mass Health. "it will only cost 100million" now it's almost a billion. "We wont cover illegals" we do. No rationing health care" it's rationed

spence and Johnny you are 100% correct.
there is no explicit language in the bill saying illegal immigrants will be covered.
but there is no language in welfare bills that illegals will be covered. No language in city/town laws that they can attend public schools. no explicit language in WIC or other taxpayed funded programs that they will be covered, but you know what? In many, many cases....they are! So why would any sensible person assume that they wont be covered by this?

Then why shoot down GOP amendments that prohibit Illegals from free health care? It will be in the bill Spence. They will be covered. Obama's not going to miss this opportunity to add voters to his herd.
Believe it or not. Your choice, fairy land or reality.
Illegals can't vote.

If "they will be covered" why does both the House bill and draft Senate bills contain explicit legislation that they are not?

-spence

Illegals can't vote.

If "they will be covered" why does both the House bill and draft Senate bills contain explicit legislation that they are not?

-spence

Haven't you heard of Acorn:rotf2:

Draft bills don't mean anything. There like Obama speaches.

Illegals can't vote.

If "they will be covered" why does both the House bill and draft Senate bills contain explicit legislation that they are not?

-spence

Illegals most certainly can vote. I guess you haven't read about the ACORN investigations and arrests recently? Eleven ACORN staffers arrested for illegally registering voters.

Please also provide the explicit legislation that says that illegals not be covered. Thanks.

illegal aliens are the dems most reliable voting block next to African Americans :uhuh:... no documentos necessario

they vote in exactly the same way that the get services that they aren't supposed to get...fraudulently with the help of democrats

Illegals most certainly can vote. I guess you haven't read about the ACORN investigations and arrests recently? Eleven ACORN staffers arrested for illegally registering voters.

Please also provide the explicit legislation that says that illegals not be covered. Thanks.

Being allowed to vote, and fraudulently filling out paperwork are two things. Thus why Eleven ACORN staffers were arrested.

Can, may and do are three completely separate things.

Everyone in here adheres to the "guilty by association" mentality. As such, every Democrat doesn't pay their taxes and cheats on their wife, and every Republican molests young pages or looks for gay sex in bathrooms.

Being allowed to vote, and fraudulently filling out paperwork are two things. Thus why Eleven ACORN staffers were arrested.

Can, may and do are three completely separate things.

Everyone in here adheres to the "guilty by association" mentality. As such, every Democrat doesn't pay their taxes and cheats on their wife, and every Republican molests young pages or looks for gay sex in bathrooms.

with Obama it's becoming "guilty by association....after association....after association....after association....after association.....after association...." :uhuh:

Republican molests young pages or looks for gay sex in bathrooms.
This is true...

-spence

Please also provide the explicit legislation that says that illegals not be covered. Thanks.
I already did, but as you seem to be lazy...

H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.txt.pdf


I also believe that there is existing law prohibiting illegals from participating in Federally funded medical care unless it's an emergency.

-spence

I also believe that there is existing law prohibiting illegals from participating in Federally funded medical care unless it's an emergency.

-spence

Unfortunately, visiting the hospital for the sniffles can be considered an emergency.

Unfortunately, visiting the hospital for the sniffles can be considered an emergency.
Blame Reagan. He signed the bill into law that requires hospitals to provide service.

-spence

I already did, but as you seem to be lazy...



I also believe that there is existing law prohibiting illegals from participating in Federally funded medical care unless it's an emergency.

-spence

And Democrats respond, “No, we didn’t. We don’t need that, because Medicare and Medicaid and such already require documentation of legal status.”

Here's a neat summary of the findings of a Medicaid audit in the state of Washington, in which seven-figure sums were improperly diverted to illegal aliens, and in which program administrators apparently fought tooth and talon to undermine the audit, going so far as to alter records. Read for yourself. Washington:

• paid $22 million to individuals who did not provide valid Social Security Numbers (SSN) or offered no SSN at all;

• paid more than $1 million to individuals claiming a deceased relative's SSN;

• provided $1.3 million in unallowable medical services to illegal aliens;

• cannot account for more than 1.4 million in pills worth in excess of $529,000; and

• did not cooperate with SAO's audit, leading to the disclaiming of the $6.1 billion Medicaid program.

Regarding the lack of cooperation extended by DSHS, SAO made the following statements throughout its audit:

• [DSHS] personnel attempted to thwart particular audit procedures by questioning our authority to either expand the scope of our audit or to obtain certain information.

• [DSHS] altered information related to sample transactions while we were attempting to complete our review.

• In some instances, we were unable to independently interview line staff without the presence of management or without management's selection of the employees to be interviewed.

• Staff members informed us that they had to obtain permission from management prior to speaking with auditors. During our review of the allowability of certain medical procedures and of procedures provided to undocumented aliens, we were never granted permission to speak with the medical consultants who had approval authority.

• The audit liaison system, as actually used by the Department, hindered our access to data and obstructed our contact with line staff. Additionally, the audit liaison system attempted to force us to rely on the Department's representations as to the existence or accuracy of evidence. In effect, the Department was attempting to perform the work of the auditor, instead of allowing the auditors to perform an independent audit and reach a valid conclusion.

• It is inappropriate for the Department to withhold information because it believes it is not relevant or significant. The auditor should be given the information requested and have an opportunity to examine it and discuss it with the Department before the auditor decides its importance.


The law empowers states to use Medicaid funds to cover “emergency” services for illegals. One of the emergency services covered is the delivery of babies. It is hard to imagine denying care to a woman being wheeled into an emergency room in labor. But, of course, providing care to women being wheeled into emergency rooms in labor was not the end of it. Bureaucracies like to grow, government bureaucracies are home to lots of Democrats, and illegal aliens provide a nice source of supplementary voters for Democrats in states such as — and let’s just pick two — California and Illinois.

So, rather than emergency deliveries being covered, pregnancy itself becomes an “emergency” condition, and Medicaid funds ended up getting used to pay for routine prenatal care and other services related to same. And then they began to be used for post-partum care, as well. The government’s own reportage documents lots of episodes in which federal funds have been used to subsidize illegals in contravention of existing statutes. On what grounds might we suppose that Obamacare would be any different? Especially if we consider that Republican efforts to help ensure that Obamacare might prove different were rejected? And might we be justified in asking the Democrats why, exactly, they voted against those measures? After all, if they are superfluous, they will have no real effect: If existing controls are sufficient, the illegals will be weeded out of the system well before they came up against these putative restrictions, no?

A GAO report finds that illegal immigrants constitute more than one-third of all Medicaid-funded pregnancies in California.

spence and Johnny you are 100% correct.
there is no explicit language in the bill saying illegal immigrants will be covered.
but there is no language in welfare bills that illegals will be covered. No language in city/town laws that they can attend public schools. no explicit language in WIC or other taxpayed funded programs that they will be covered, but you know what? In many, many cases....they are! So why would any sensible person assume that they wont be covered by this?

Are you confusing Federal and State laws?

-spence

Blame Reagan. He signed the bill into law that requires hospitals to provide service.

-spence

The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (42 U.S.C. § 1395dd, EMTALA) is a United States Act of Congress passed in 1986 as part of the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act. It requires hospitals and ambulance services to provide care to anyone needing emergency treatment regardless of citizenship, legal status or ability to pay. There are no reimbursement provisions. As a result of the act, patients needing emergency treatment can be discharged only under their own informed consent or when their condition requires transfer to a hospital better equipped to administer the treatment

Then why shoot down GOP amendments that prohibit Illegals from free health care? It will be in the bill Spence. They will be covered. Obama's not going to miss this opportunity to add voters to his herd.
Believe it or not. Your choice, fairy land or reality.

I'd be curious what the actual GOP amendment's wording was. Let's not forget how ridiculous the law drafting process can be.

**This is not an attack**
For instance, it is not legal to carry a firearm on federal park lands. Why? Because the GOP had the amendment inserted into the... Fair Debt Collection Practices Act???? How is that even applicable? (Even though I'm glad they did and agree with the policy 100%)

But this happens every day. No party is innocent. Thus, I wonder what the actual wording was.

I'd be curious what the actual GOP amendment's wording was. Let's not forget how ridiculous the law drafting process can be.

**This is not an attack**
For instance, it is not legal to carry a firearm on federal park lands. Why? Because the GOP had the amendment inserted into the... Fair Debt Collection Practices Act???? How is that even applicable? (Even though I'm glad they did and agree with the policy 100%)

But this happens every day. No party is innocent. Thus, I wonder what the actual wording was.

I can't believe I once thought you were one of the good guys.:rotf2:

Read it Spence and JD. This is far from a closed issue.

Health care talks focus on illegal immigrants - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090911/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_overhaul)

Read it Spence and JD. This is far from a closed issue.

Health care talks focus on illegal immigrants - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090911/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_overhaul)

Not sure what the problem is. Obama has clearly stated he doesn't want to see this in the legislation...

But the House has a reason to put this in. If the law did require some illegals to get coverage why shouldn't they be able to buy into the gateway? They still wouldn't be receiving any Federal subsidies.

-spence

Thank God for Joe Wilson or we wouldn't even be talikng about it. He may have saved your kids billions.