View Full Version : Throw out that outboard. 15% ethonol
buckman 12-02-2009, 03:47 PM 15 percent ethanol :smash: It just keeps getting worse
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EPA expected to push 15 percent ethanol. Not good.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/02/bu...02ethanol.html
JohnR 12-04-2009, 05:06 PM Linkage:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/02/business/energy-environment/02ethanol.html
E.P.A. Says It Expects to Raise Amount of Ethanol Allowed in Fuel Blends to 15%
By MATTHEW L. WALD
Published: December 1, 2009
WASHINGTON — The Environmental Protection Agency said Monday that it would probably increase the amount of ethanol that gasoline retailers could blend into ordinary fuel, to 15 percent, if tests established that the blend would not damage cars.
The maximum ethanol blend is now 10 percent, except for cars specially equipped to handle higher blends. The agency said it was likely to approve the increase to 15 percent next summer, perhaps for use only in cars of the 2001 model year and later.
More...
Kris Kiser, executive vice president of the Outdoor Power Equipment Institute, said that high ethanol blends could force the clutch on a chain saw to engage, and spin the chain, when the user thought it was in neutral, and that such blends could cause leaks and fires in equipment held in the hand or carried on the back. Mat Dunn, legislative director of the National Marine Manufacturers Association, said such blends could make boats break down far from shore. “We cannot just pull over and call AAA,” he said.
And Bill Holbrook, a spokesman for the National Petrochemical and Refiners Association, said some of his group’s members were already being sued on the basis that their 10 percent ethanol blends had damaged engines.
PRBuzz 12-04-2009, 05:14 PM "The agency said it was likely to approve the increase to 15 percent next summer, perhaps for use only in cars of the 2001 model year and later."
What are they going to have 2 sets of pumps: this line if older than 2001 and this line if newer than 2001?
What about all of us that trailer boats and fill up at land based gas stations?
I'm buying more stock in the company that makes Marine Stabil!
Definatly bad news for the Gas Engine crowd. And worse for the Diesel crowd, Biodiesel is extremely hard on the fuel systems, As it is quite caustic. We could use a few more tree huggers
Fishoholic 12-04-2009, 08:28 PM I'm buying more stock in the company that makes Marine Stabil!
add all of it you want.. It won't matter if it goes to 15%. Ethanol is just another big brother scam thats Eff anyone who does't buy a NEW "flex fuel" cars and trucks.. If Marine engine manufacturers don't get onboard with it soon we will be looking a serious hit for the marine industry.
JohnnyD 12-04-2009, 08:58 PM The corn industry is already overstretched due to the ethanol requirement. This will only make things worse and further add to increased groundwater pollution.
buckman 12-04-2009, 10:15 PM Economist: 'Blending wall' stands in way of ethanol growth
December 22, 2008 (PhysOrg.com) -- Ethanol production opened the door to the renewable fuels industry. The industry now must get past an imposing wall of federal regulations and market conditions if it hopes to grow, said a Purdue University agricultural economist.
"The ethanol industry is now faced with what is called a 'blending wall,'" said Wally Tyner, an energy policy specialist. "The ethanol industry will not and cannot grow with the blending wall in place. That means we won't have cellulosic ethanol and the demand for corn for ethanol will be limited unless the blending wall is somehow changed or we find a way around it."
Unless the barrier is removed, ethanol production could level off by 2010, Tyner said.
The blending wall refers to the amount of ethanol gasoline companies are permitted to blend with petroleum-based fuel. Federal standards set the amount at 10 percent of gasoline consumption.
"As a nation we consume about 140 billion gallons of gasoline a year," Tyner said. "So if we blended ethanol with every single drop of gasoline we consume, the maximum amount of ethanol blended would be 14 billion gallons a year. But for a number of reasons we can't blend ethanol with every drop of gasoline. Our effective blending wall is actually about 12 billion gallons, or 9 percent.
"We're not at 12 billion gallons yet, but we'll be there in 2009 or 2010. When we hit that blending wall, the Environmental Protection Agency cannot require gasoline companies to blend more ethanol than they are legally permitted to blend."
Several factors prevent the ethanol industry from breaking through the blending wall, Tyner said.
For starters, there are too few cars and trucks on the nation's roads capable of running on any gasoline with an ethanol blend higher than 10 percent, or what is commonly called E10, Tyner said. A huge gap exists between the E10 fleet and flex-fuel vehicles that run on E85 - an 85/15 ethanol to gasoline blend, he said.
"Only about 7 million of our nation's 300-plus million cars are E85 flex-fuel vehicles," Tyner said. "Also, we have just 1,700 fuel pumps in the entire country that can dispense E85, and most of those are in the Midwest. All of the E85 that's marketed nationwide could be produced by one ethanol plant."
Some in the ethanol industry have proposed that E10 be replaced by an E15 or E20 blend, thereby increasing ethanol use. However, automobile manufacturers do not believe today's E10 vehicles can run on a higher ethanol blend, Tyner said.
"Because the automobile fleet in the United States turns over about every 14 years, it would take some time before E15 or E20 cars would be as common as E10 are now," he said.
Ethanol production growth also is held back by environmental and infrastructure factors, Tyner said.
"In the South during the warm summer months, the vapor pressure of ethanol blends is higher than conventional gasoline," he said. "That causes more evaporative emissions and means the blended fuel does not meet Environmental Protection Agency evaporative emission standards.
"On the infrastructure side, ethanol cannot be shipped by pipeline because it is so corrosive and would absorb any water in the pipeline. It must move by truck, rail or barge instead. That presents logistical problems."
For ethanol production to push past 12 billion gallons per year the blending wall would have to be eliminated and oil prices would need to increase, Tyner said.
The blending wall affects corn prices, as well, by cutting the link between the corn price and the cost of crude oil, Tyner said. In the ethanol era, corn prices have followed oil prices up and down.
"In the economic models we've developed, corn prices never exceed $6 per bushel with the blending wall in place, even with oil prices at $160 per barrel, because you simply can't blend any more ethanol," he said.
"So the blending wall is perhaps the biggest issue the ethanol industry will face in 2009-10. Without a resolution of this issue, ethanol industry growth is about finished."
Provided by Purdue University
PRBuzz 12-07-2009, 06:41 AM From today's WSJ Online:
Small-Engine Makers Voice Worry As EPA Weighs New Ethanol Rule
NEW YORK—Boaters and small-engine-industry groups are worried their concerns about engine damage will be overlooked as the Environmental Protection Agency considers allowing as much as 15% ethanol in the nation's gasoline.
Since fuel with an ethanol content of up to 10% has been introduced across the U.S. in recent years, boaters have complained of problems. Now they are lobbying the EPA to test the effects of ethanol on small engines—in addition to the testing being done on car and truck engines—as the regulator weighs increasing the ethanol content.
"We don't have the science on it," said Margaret Podlich, vice president of government affairs of the Boat Owners Association of the United States. "We don't know what this will do to marine engines."
Backers of allowing additional ethanol in the fuel mix cite reduced greenhouse-gas emissions, the possibility of job creation, and the need to meet a federal mandate to increase use of biofuels.
The EPA has postponed a final decision on raising the ethanol limit until next year amid concerns among oil companies and vehicle makers. In an emailed statement, the agency said it would look at all data submitted to it for both onroad and nonroad sources, and that testing smaller engines, such as marine outboards, was being discussed.
As a solvent, ethanol frees up the gunk in fuel tanks and engines that can clog carburetors and fuel lines. The blended fuel can also cause problems if it separates when stored for lengthy periods—as boats commonly are—creating safety worries, especially when boats are used offshore.
Chris Thorne, a spokesman for ethanol industry group Growth Energy, said boaters "have a legitimate concern," but noted that the EPA wasn't considering mandating use of 15% ethanol, adding that consumers would have time to prepare and that the different fuel blends would be clearly labeled.
"This is not going to be a surprise to anybody," Mr. Thorne said. "We have been through the process of changing fuel systems before."
The Outdoor Power Equipment Institute, which represents makers of lawnmowers, chain saws and other power gear, said it is "deeply concerned" since educating millions of consumers to prevent potentially dangerous misfueling would be "a daunting task." Small-engine makers are particularly concerned about the potential liability associated with accidents or strandings due to engine failures caused by extra ethanol in the fuel mix.
Mat Dunn, legislative director of the National Marine Manufacturers Association, said he welcomed the EPA's additional testing, but was worried about potential boating-safety problems and complicating the fuel market for consumers. He said his industry group has no statistics to illustrate the scale of boaters' difficulties with ethanol-blended fuel, but that it anecdotally hears of complaints "all the time."
Having ethanol in the fuel "was a disaster for us," said Bill Bahen, executive director of Hudson River Community Sailing in Manhattan. He said the six gasoline outboard engines purchased new last year for the nonprofit sailing school and club's sailboats broke down repeatedly with carburetor and fuel-line problems, and were never all running at the same time this year, disrupting activities.
Other boating organizations echoed Mr. Bahen. "The ethanol created a litany of things that we had to do," said Nick Judson, executive director of the nonprofit Nantucket Community Sailing. "Our maintenance bills definitely went up."
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