Be there w/ 8o'clock coffee. Hey Lou, I have been putting in a ballbearing roller in all my paint bottles. Shake it, the ball rattles and continue till mixed. so far so good.

Yes that works great.

Numbskull i saw this on the other site and thought you would like this.:drool::drool::drool:

Yes, I've known about that one for awhile. 10 1/2" and 4oz. Very doable, but I went with the BM/Pichney version last winter and barely fished them (beetch to carry). Found a picture of a Musso Eely this afternoon, however, a plug I never knew existed and one Back Beach asked me about just a week ago......2 hours later I think I've got something close. Don't have an original, but I've spent so much time copying his stuff I feel pretty confident I know how he would have gone about it. We'll see.

Never,ever thought i would hear that. :shocked:
"The End" must be near. :hihi:

2012 is the new beginning ....not the END

i like hydro Karl .....much better than Booze. :uhuh:

Good Morning, anyone home?

good morning .. I winged this eely last year .. pikie 3 lip I think .. small tail weight .. I got a couple of fish on it .. I'm mainly throwing needles ,pp or spooks .. I like this plug though . Cast ok .. more interresting profile ..

forgot pic ... :smash:

Nice!
Haven't done anything this weekend but entertain. So I'll try to pay attention and learn something this AM.

Good morning! Got your coffee? I thought this morning, with the passing of lure building legend Bob Pond, we could honor his legacy in lure building a bit and maybe post some pics of any vintage Bob Pond/Atom creations if any of us own some or even some copies and talk about Bob and share some stories if we have any along with the usual chatter this am? :gu:

Good mornin'. I'm here, but should be drilling. Got church in an hour, not all that religious but whatever.

As for a topic for today....how about lips. These things drive me crazy. So many guys make "copies" that are not true to the original. Sure if you build your own thing using the lip as the base you can do OK, but if you want to copy something old you are out of luck.

There are good Lefty (actually Musso) lips available.
Salty's conrad lip is perfect.
The large Pikie lip is great.........but one with a mid slot hole would be greater yet for us guys who like surface swimmers.
Perfect surfster lips are available.

Nobody makes an accurate mid or small danny lip. The medium danny lips available are wider, longer, and with a slightly higher hole than the lips that are used on medium Pichney, Lupo, BM surface swimmer.....which are as perfect a bass lure as you can find.

There is no match for the large conrad, or the BM cowboy/ Bm version A40.

Yeah, yeah......I know if you are doing your own thing you can use what is out there and be happy. But a lot of us enjoy copying and fishing stuff that is no longer available. Yes, for any one or two, or six plugs you can cut your own lips....but if you want to make multiples you are out of luck.

So how do I go about making my own dies?

I remember meeting Bob Pond and his wife Avis at RISSA a few years ago when John Habs brought them to the show (which I thought was nice of John) and so many got to meet Bob and his wife and shake his hand and thank him for all he did! I know I did! They were both very pleasant people at the show. Unfortunately I do not own any of his fine work??:( Maybe Capesams or Vineyard Blues will post some of their great collections at some point? I hope so!

Numby I use NJ's lefty lips on my small Danny's.....they work pretty great!:uhuh:

Not sure Numby whats involved for cost .. Zappa clone probably knows ,, GRS makes his own lips .

Hi all
good idea Larry
but I have to run along myself so no time for me to do any pics, gotta get to the game. see ya later

I have not gone much further on my Nike's? I need to turn some more and start getting some done for PlugFest! :uhuh:

here ya go Larry ... This is all i have .. The flatter nose 40's were trailer made along the bank of the CC Canal ,, I believe close to where BSP is now .. The more refined round nose 40 was made in Attleboro shop . I don't have (looking for) a trolling model wich is visaully straighter shaped on the tail ,,wich is tail weighted ,,. I stole the Jr. for 50 of epay .. It always puzzled me these early 4 yrs. of Atom wood went so cheap on epay ..9.99 - 19.99 .. unless it was mint in the box .. see what happens now ,, Pleez correct me if any of the above untrue ... all word of mouth .. God Bless Bob Pond ..

Thanks for sharing those Ed! Very nice examples!:drool:

Here are some old A-40's from the late 50's w/ a couple of my repros and some early 70's A-jrs & the plastic version A54B(blk) with 2 copies of the jr & 54B. We can't forget the infamous Atom blue/white popper.I think everyone I know had one in their bag or boat growing up.

Thanks for sharing those Ed! Very nice examples!:drool:

Yea Larry .. never had them all together .. now that I see the pic and just checked plug ,,I believe the top one is the Troller ,, fatter and straighter line on the arse .. not sure ,,, weighs 2.9 ... others 2.7 ,2.4.. Could just be wood weight inconsistent ..

Yeah I noticed the difference in the taper of the tail? You may be correct!

Hi Larry,Wish I could figure out the prob with gettin pics up here. I've got so much of Bob's stuff that it's crazy.Was a very good freind and a great teacher. Kinda sucks him bein gone.He's the one that got me into plug fishing as a kid up here in Maine back in the 60's

Out of curiosity how'd you find out about his passing. Ron

Hi Larry,Wish I could figure out the prob with gettin pics up here. I've got so much of Bob's stuff that it's crazy.Was a very good freind and a great teacher. Kinda sucks him bein gone.He's the one that got me into plug fishing as a kid up here in Maine back in the 60's

bummer you can't post pics ,, You can probably help us out alot with info and history ,.. This stuff isn't in books . I believe this to be an Atom (Bob Pond ) jigg ,, weighs 3.2 ...good friend gave it to me ..

Out of curiosity how'd you find out about his passing. Ron

check main forum here and SOL .. Everyone loved your friend Bob ...

Its posted in the main forum and on SOL! Maybe you could share some stories with us? Sorry for your very personal loss Ron.

These are a couple 40'ish knockoffs I've been playing with. It's shorter at 6 1/4" but bigger in diameter and weighs 2.85 oz.

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac167/alphabaits/fortys003.jpg

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac167/alphabaits/fortys004.jpg

We've all made a jr. or a 40 .... what plug builder has not been influenced by Bob Pond ? nice pics Ted ..

Good mornin'. I'm here, but should be drilling. Got church in an hour, not all that religious but whatever.

As for a topic for today....how about lips. These things drive me crazy. So many guys make "copies" that are not true to the original. Sure if you build your own thing using the lip as the base you can do OK, but if you want to copy something old you are out of luck.

There are good Lefty (actually Musso) lips available.
Salty's conrad lip is perfect.
The large Pikie lip is great.........but one with a mid slot hole would be greater yet for us guys who like surface swimmers.
Perfect surfster lips are available.

Nobody makes an accurate mid or small danny lip. The medium danny lips available are wider, longer, and with a slightly higher hole than the lips that are used on medium Pichney, Lupo, BM surface swimmer.....which are as perfect a bass lure as you can find.

There is no match for the large conrad, or the BM cowboy/ Bm version A40.

Yeah, yeah......I know if you are doing your own thing you can use what is out there and be happy. But a lot of us enjoy copying and fishing stuff that is no longer available. Yes, for any one or two, or six plugs you can cut your own lips....but if you want to make multiples you are out of luck.

So how do I go about making my own dies?

Good afternoon all :smash:
George an easier way is to flatten a lip you want and get a sheet metal shop with a N/C laser or water jet to make as many as you want with the slot were you want it for about a $1.00 or so a piece and bend them yourself.I know a couple of places with some friends working or owning the shops.If you have something you want let me Know i can get you pricing.

Laser, eh? Do they sell those on Craig's list? :heybaby:

Hi Tagger, I just went out in the shop an looked through a box of lead heads Bob played with, Got a few of them in it all different sizes. He loved the peice of broom handle with a leadhead behind it and was always experimenting with it. Ihe one he put on the market with the change able hair started out with a couple blems that the sun got to and floated a bit higher in the water Ron

Nice plugs, Ted. Look like they "fit the lip" better than the actual originals did. How wide did you make them?

Hi all,I just talked with Avis' daughter. They're gonna try to do a memorial service next Sat. She's gonna have her son put the info up on the web sites to get it out.This will give people time to make travel plans an such. If I get anymore info I can post I'll put it out there. Ron

Hi Tagger, I just went out in the shop an looked through a box of lead heads Bob played with............

That is what I'll remember most about Bob Pond, he had such an inquisitive and enthusiastic mind. Fish, fishing, plugs, jigs.......always thinking and working at figuring things out, trying something new and different.

Well I'm headin out to the shop an do some turnin an look at some old pics an such. Quite a surprise. Ron

Headed down the basement to do some drilling...I will check in later!

Nice plugs, Ted. Look like they "fit the lip" better than the actual originals did. How wide did you make them?

I made the plug as wide as the lip at the widest point which is where the rear taper starts. I like the one I did from pine the best. That is the yellow one. I made the others from cypress and they weigh exactly the same as the pine one. Swim is different. I know I should have expected it but it surprised me how different. I can get the pine one to swim subsurface and is pretty stable but the cypress ones won't leave the top. They are also pretty unstable and will roll out if cranked hard but leave a big wake with alot of tail wag. These are my first attempts at a forty and at least I have somewhere to go from here. I wish I had access to some of the older plugs like you guys seem to have. Trying to find them let alone people to bounce ideas off here is difficult at best here.

No ProfMoriarty this am?? Hmmmmm?:confused:

Had to get my beauty sleep and just got home from church and the house looks like a bomb went off so wife is on my butt to help clean up the remnants of hurricane Caitlin that went thru here on Friday morning. Also just finished putting up the Barbie dream house so here I am late as usual.
Lips well Lu mentioned water jet. I have tried for a while to get some done down at WHOI as they have one but no luck so far. I also know someone who knows someone that owns a place that does that so I am still at work on it. The dies are too expensive for someone to buy if they are not going to go into business and now there are several doing it so not worth trying to make a business venture out of it. So I just make a few here and there for my self and a few friends and live with that. But I am not giving up on the water jet thing. The bending is very simple it is the outline that takes me the most time so water jet would be perfect, if I can get it down to a reasonable cost. Just this week I took regular Pikie 3 lips and just recut the lip slot where is should be for Pichney surface swimmers. Should work perfect.

These are my first attempts at a forty and at least I have somewhere to go from here. I wish I had access to some of the older plugs like you guys seem to have. Trying to find them let alone people to bounce ideas off here is difficult at best here.

Ted ... you can borrow mine for models ,,either pic up at fest or since your working on them now ,I could mail em .. should copy the jr. to for future referrence,, fatter,,stubbier than bm and others ..

Also just finished putting up the Barbie dream house so here I am late as usual.


How's Barbie doing now adays ? Is she feeling the recession ? What kind of house ?

friggin 3 story with elevator, hot tub, and a toilet that flushes with sound effects. Got a corvette in the drive too. I am curious how she gets the $$$ to afford the dig's, but I have an idea.

Had to get my beauty sleep and just got home from church and the house looks like a bomb went off so wife is on my butt to help clean up the remnants of hurricane Caitlin that went thru here on Friday morning. Also just finished putting up the Barbie dream house so here I am late as usual.
Lips well Lu mentioned water jet. I have tried for a while to get some done down at WHOI as they have one but no luck so far. I also know someone who knows someone that owns a place that does that so I am still at work on it. The dies are too expensive for someone to buy if they are not going to go into business and now there are several doing it so not worth trying to make a business venture out of it. So I just make a few here and there for my self and a few friends and live with that. But I am not giving up on the water jet thing. The bending is very simple it is the outline that takes me the most time so water jet would be perfect, if I can get it down to a reasonable cost. Just this week I took regular Pikie 3 lips and just recut the lip slot where is should be for Pichney surface swimmers. Should work perfect.

I have a bud that just got an EDM says he wants to make me some as a test and then make more for me at 50 cents a piece.Have to get over to see him.

I have 3 wire EDM's at work. Have been trying to get one of the guys in engineering to write some programs but the machines are always busy doing dies.

Ted ... you can borrow mine for models ,,either pic up at fest or since your working on them now ,I could mail em .. should copy the jr. to for future referrence,, fatter,,stubbier than bm and others ..

That would be great. I would love to at least take a look at some at plugfest.

Also I hope what I wrote did not come across wrong. When I said trying to bounce ideas off someone here is difficult, I meant here where I'm at in PA not here in this forum. Everyone here has always been helpful to me.

I can get the pine one to swim subsurface and is pretty stable but the cypress ones won't leave the top. They are also pretty unstable and will roll out if cranked hard but leave a big wake with alot of tail wag. .

Have you tried bending the line tie up to get them down? If no go, try tweaking the lip upwards a touch.

Have you tried bending the line tie up to get them down? If no go, try tweaking the lip upwards a touch.


I tried playing with the line tie a little. Not much help. Also tried swapping out the 3/0 that are on there with 4/0 and not much different either. May go a bit higher with my lipslot on another and see what happens. Also if I can find some AYC big enough I may try one with that and see what happens. I will try bending the lip up a bit as you suggested.

I have a bud that just got an EDM says he wants to make me some as a test and then make more for me at 50 cents a piece.Have to get over to see him.

you go girl. sounds like a very nice friend to have. I have no tool and die friends anymore. I'm stuck making them by hand right now, which is ok for me, but feel bad when i can't get enough to supply all my friends.

I have 3 wire EDM's at work. Have been trying to get one of the guys in engineering to write some programs but the machines are always busy doing dies.

that is the problem for me too. The darn CNC machines are alway busy making my boss money and not doing fun 3 axis stuff for me so I am stuck figuring out ways to do it the old fashion way that doesn't take an eternity, so as to make it worth while to bother.

...Nobody makes an accurate mid or small danny lip....

The Cape Cod tackle small danny lip has worked well for me. Use them on a 1 1/2 oz danny that I do. Dont know how it matches up with the dannys you were thinking about, but it might be worth a try.

Jigman

lu, wheres the paint shaker pics? :confused:

looking forward to seeing it :uhuh:

LOL i will take them later today and post them up.

I made the plug as wide as the lip at the widest point which is where the rear taper starts. I like the one I did from pine the best. That is the yellow one. I made the others from cypress and they weigh exactly the same as the pine one. Swim is different. I know I should have expected it but it surprised me how different. I can get the pine one to swim subsurface and is pretty stable but the cypress ones won't leave the top. They are also pretty unstable and will roll out if cranked hard but leave a big wake with alot of tail wag. These are my first attempts at a forty and at least I have somewhere to go from here. I wish I had access to some of the older plugs like you guys seem to have. Trying to find them let alone people to bounce ideas off here is difficult at best here.

I've ran into that with some musso's.

I wanted to try both pine and basswood just for kick's and although the weight came up the same the basswood version seem to be a little more sluggish (or so I thought), which might not be a bad thing.

Included a basswood proto on the next round and wasn't sure if it was me or not but I thought it swam a little sluggish again, compared to the pine. Might be the sealer absorption although the weight is the same OR its just how that wood reacts.

or it's just me.

From this weekend.

Figured I would try out a couple different kinds of spooks. offset vs. non-offset, narrower vs fatter head etc.

I fished some traditional ones I made last year when I would stay out until first light and the water was flat. walked nicely just couldn't cast em.

Also, two pencils and two polaris's I gave away for Christmas. I was going for squid but I think I end up with linoleum flooring. :uhuh:

... walked nicely just couldn't cast em....

Spooks can be decent casters, but will not cast as well as a pencil or a regular popper. You can increase their casting distance some by making them more aerodynamic. If you try increasing the lead you'll make them harder to walk. If you are after a topwater, daytime plug that will cast real well, stick with a pencil or polaris popper.

Jigman

I have to disagree with Jigman based on my personal experience. A spook I make casts equally as well as my pencil and absolutely slays fish equally, if not better, than my pencils. Aerodynamic is the key as Jigman said. Jigman, I have never fished the famous JigSmith but many of my friends have.....I know that sucker is a fish slayer but I would imagine it must cast very well??:confused:

walked nicely just couldn't cast em.

Spooks can be decent casters...

Hence messing with a few different shapes.

Not looking for the distance of a pencil. Just seeing what I can get out of them with a little compromising. I also haven't fished one of your spooks or your collaboration spooks but have been inspired by just the design.

Larry,

That spook casts well, just not as well as a pencil. If I am going for distance, I'm thinking pencil.

Jigman

I wish I had a spook that cast like a pencil .. When the fish are out past the middle of the canal its pencil time or a good casting popper . I think the action on a spook is more enticing though..

I find it difficult to work a spook far,far out so a long cast usually isn't needed myself. I like pencils for distance also, or even polaris.

I agree tagger, the action of a spook is probably more enticing to a bass.

From this weekend.

Figured I would try out a couple different kinds of spooks. offset vs. non-offset, narrower vs fatter head etc.

I fished some traditional ones I made last year when I would stay out until first light and the water was flat. walked nicely just couldn't cast em.

Also, two pencils and two polaris's I gave away for Christmas. I was going for squid but I think I end up with linoleum flooring. :uhuh:


All look great . Nicely done.

Speaking of spooks here is what I have settled on from a few years of fiddling around. For me first was the Youzui Hydro pencil,which to me is a spook , but I luv that plug and used it a lot so then I tried to make something similar thus the white thing. Worked good but kept tinkering. Then I was lucky enough to get one of Andrews plugs and really liked that, low line tie. So I tried to combine the jigman and the youzuri together. I sanded off the paint on the hydro pencil to find the weight basically in the middle of the plug. It also was pretty much where jigman put his belly weight so I settled on that location and drilled and weighted the plug perpendicular to the hooks and bottom of the plug. You can see weight hole in pic. I put lead flush from one side to other. A lot of work but I like the results. I did real well on the plug last year so that is what it will be. I much prefer it out of red cedar too. It cast's great but I am fishing it out of a boat, which to me is the optimum way to fish any spook. Standing with rod tip on the water to me gets the best action..
I also can't say enough good things about the howdy as it is my best catcher every spring, also made of red cedar. Fish can't resist that plug in spring:uhuh: Flap used to laugh at me out in our tin boats on the flats because I would verbally defy the fish to hit that plug. They just could not resit. I t was like crack for fish.

Those are awesome P.

noticed the weight hole when you first posted and it got me thinking :smash: Is the older version with out the lower line tie weighted side to side as well? I tried weighing a needle from side to side last year but up forward behind the eyes.

Lots of times while on the rocks I will still fish spooks with my rod tip down making angled sweeps. A lot less violent (which I like) then fishing them as a pencil but from a boat is ideal.

yes the white one is side to side too. I like to fish them side to side very slowly with a little pause as they slow to a stop before they head back the other way, when the fish seem a little fussy. They just can not lay off the plug at that speed, same technique with the howdy too. All in the wrist and forearm. More of a quick snap than a sweep for me. If you don't feel like you are getting tennis elbow then you aren't doing it right.:uhuh:

All look great . Nicely done.

Speaking of spooks here is what I have settled on from a few years of fiddling around. For me first was the Youzui Hydro pencil,which to me is a spook ,



Standing with rod tip on the water to me gets the best action..


Thanks Paul ,, I've never fished that Youzui,, another plug I'll have to buy .. :smash:

Thanks again .. Numby yells at me for fishing a spook like that :fury:,, I'll snap the rod up once in a while but prefer to keep the nose down in the water .. Either popping the rod down or to the side ..

Thanks a million, Paul. I'd never have thought of that, but once shown ,makes perfect sense. Yaw inducing weighting. Brilliant!

Not that brilliant Fred. I stole, copied idea.:) I just sanded the paint of the plastic Youzuri, saw where the weight was and gave it a try in that location. Sandpaper, now that is brilliant.

I also prefer to work a spook with the rod tip down and to the side. If the plug is far out, there is current, or there are decent waves, then you'll usually have to work the spook with the rod tip up. I like to mix it up some, work it slow, fast for a short bit, dead stop, move again. Its all good :uhuh: Also agree that its hard to work a spook as well when it is far out. On most days, they are more enticing to stripers than a pencil. Have had several cases where bluefish were blitzing and trashing pencils, put on a spook and work it slow at the edge of the school and start pulling a few stripers out too.

Jigman

Anyone find an optimal action on them things?

I made this great big one outta pine with a little tail weight and no belly lead, and I love it's big lazy zig zags, and even occasional dives and jumps, but dang if I haven't raised a single fish on it.:huh:

I'm hoping it's just cuz I haven't put it in front of something big enough to eat it...

Perhaps long coasting zig zags aren't what it takes...

Good morning. Gets later and later each week.

Woody, in my experience decent bass like big lazy slow spooks more than the splashy faster kind. Hard to make yourself work them slow, however, particularly when things are slow and you are searching (same issue arises with swimmers).

Got a big thrill out of F Pintauro's articles about Musso. 2 weeks ago Back Beach was telling me how the "Musso" eely was such a great lure for him at the Race years back. I told him the only eelys I knew of were the BM and Pichney (a style plug I fished years ago a bit but left me underwhelmed). Also they are forward weighted and don't look like fast water plugs to me, so I was surprised (and a little skeptical) they were a hot item at the Race. Accordingly my eyes popped out when lo and behold there is a picture of one in Frank's article. That and a Musso bottle darter, and some lipless swimmers.
Certainly got the juices flowing. Here are some prototypes (next to a copy of a musso pine sr).

Just sitting in the back of the classroom, George. My usual seat.
I've been working on some long and skinnys myself, shooting for a sandeel.
Figured how to hydro without water or other liquid yesterday. Now I don't have to redry my spun wood. The plug orients just about as forcefully as in water.
I'll be drilling and slotting this afternoon

No comments on the patched misdrills, by the way. The darter deflected when I through drilled the weight, the lipless swimmer I forgot was off center drilled.

Epoxy and 1/8" dowel cures many ills.


The other lesson for the week is that soft maple is a SPONGE. Had a darter go from 2.1 to 2.9 oz (2.8 after drying) after 6 hours soak, and a wad go from 2.0-2.8, though it dried down to 2.4. Sort of wrecks havoc with any attempt to weight it before you seal it.

Figured how to hydro without water or other liquid yesterday. Now I don't have to redry my spun wood. The plug orients just about as forcefully as in water.


Flat smooth table, Fred? I'm all ears.

I thought that was where the weight was.. maybe I should move up a few seats...

I thought that was where the weight was.. maybe I should move up a few seats...

Actually, I think most plugs are not exactly round, particularly after you sand them. The softer earlywood (I think that is what it is called) machines faster than the harder latewood (darker grain lines). That is probably a factor, too.

The base of my lathe is two parallel tubes. I laid a spun blank on in and it rolled, stopped rolled back a little and stopped.
I had to have done that a thousand times in the past but never took notice. The wood and the tubes only touch at a point, barely at all, and the wood rolls very easily. When it stops mark the top.
If the lathe base isn't built like that I'm sure that mocking one up and leveling it would be a snap.

Good morning. I see we're all having fun. Been busy sealing the remainder of the plug battallion. I started to dip primer; zinseer gold label , cut 2-1. so far so good. 2 coats. No smell , overspray and spray gun cleaning. Does anybody dip primer? Here's my low buck dripping system.

Morning fellow addicts and Happy New Year! George what type of sealer do you use? Why soak for so long?:confused:

I sanded off the paint on the hydro pencil to find the weight basically in the middle of the plug. It also was pretty much where jigman put his belly weight so I settled on that location and drilled and weighted the plug perpendicular to the hooks and bottom of the plug. You can see weight hole in pic. I put lead flush from one side to other.

Paul .. That horizontal hole you drilled side to side in your spook,, Is that below the center of the plug .. Thanks .. can't tell from pic .. looks like thru wire is towards top of hole ..

George ,, I really like the predator head/bottle plug .. I think your on to something .. I'm gonna copy .. brillant .

Does anybody dip primer? Here's my low buck dripping system.

I brush /hypodermic cpes thru oven heated plugs (20 min 200 degree's) .. sucs in like a basatagde .. Stuff is so expensive I don't want to mix dipping batches . I'm looking for something to dip .. I thought zinnser aerosol was to chalky .. yours look better .. Every year ya try something new it takes a whole fishing season to see how it holds up .. very slow process unless someone succesful is willing to share information ,., not

Well I finally got some stuff started, using soft maple.

I've been messing with the Donny shape that George posted dimensions of for me a few weeks ago. In addition to the surface swimmer it was intended as, I also wanted to experiment with it to see if I could get a deep swimmer with that same basic body shape.

I've also been adding a small tail weight to them and I like having only 1 belly hook so that throws the weighting off a bit so I've done a lot of test swimming this week.

For the lipless diver I extended the nose of the plug 1" and then copied the basic nike head shape. I ended up having to move the line tie higher, and making the head a little larger than the lipped swimmer to increase the size of the diving plane. I also ended up moving the weight forward of the belly hook to get it to dig in. It drops down 2-3 feet on a slow retrieve and will go deeper in current. It swims with a pretty wide wobble, turns left/right about twice as often as a darter.
Its pretty much what I wanted, we'll just have to see if the fish like it next spring.

I also had tried some 2 belly hook versions of the diver, but once I got the single belly hooked ones worked out I decided to turn the 2 belly hooked ones into jointeds. The first one I tried swam great but was just barely subsurface maybe 2-3". I turned a slightly thinner one yesterday that I'm hoping will go deeper.

I also turned some darters but haven't gotten to the point where I screw them up yet.

I spray Zinseer Gold Cover Stain from a rattle can......it needs a good amount of sanding but it works great! I would be afraid to dip it....to heavy!

I use Valoil/MS, Larry. Do you build with soft maple? AYC, pine barely absorb any sealer, and I only seal for an hour or two. Soft maple (and birch) are different, they suck the stuff up. They suck water up, too. And they split. The more sealer you get in them, the less room for water, the less water, the less expansion and contraction, the less movement, the less splitting (and less waterlogging).

I think sealing a plug is not about a thin coating on the outside (very little water gets absorbed perpendicular to the wood fibers). It is about building a barrier in the exposed end grain. Since maple transports water (or sealer) very quickly, my theory is that a quick dunk gets drawn in and doesn't seal much.

I spray Zinseer Gold Cover Stain from a rattle can......it needs a good amount of sanding but it works great! I would be afraid to dip it....to heavy!

I bought a gallon and dipped. Then sanded myself silly. Maybe I should have reduced it some.

Larry I take the primer amount and cut it w/ paint thinner. i.e. 1 pt primer, 1/2 pt thinner. Dry overnight dip again. Lightly sand or gray scotchpad.

Good morning. I see we're all having fun. Been busy sealing the remainder of the plug battallion. I started to dip primer; zinseer gold label , cut 2-1. so far so good. 2 coats. No smell , overspray and spray gun cleaning. Does anybody dip primer? Here's my low buck dripping system.

how do keep the runny paint from running out of eye an hook holes, leaving no rivers down the side of the plug...never had any luck dipping,but love the primer inside all the holes.

Thanks for the ratio.

I knew you were using maple George. Yeah I use AYC exclusively for the plugs I build......you are correct it does not absorb the BLO/Mins I use very much! I did some testing once (if anyone is interested?) I sealed a series of bodies (AYC) for different periods of time from 1 minute to 1 hour and found no more penetration from 1 minute to one hour? I only soak mine for a minute or so......wipe dry and I let them stand to dry for about 5 days minimum before I prime. I have never had any water problems, splitting or adhesion problems. George is the rate of drying weight similar from one plug to the next after sealing? That is to say if you soak 2 plugs for the same amount of time, after drying will they both weigh the same?

Just sitting in the back of the classroom, George. My usual seat.
I've been working on some long and skinnys myself, shooting for a sandeel.
Figured how to hydro without water or other liquid yesterday. Now I don't have to redry my spun wood. The plug orients just about as forcefully as in water.
I'll be drilling and slotting this afternoon


yep! think railroad tracks....thin,very thin tracks an roll away.

Cool stuff, Dave. You might try relieving the edges on the jointed like Musso did on his jointed darters. Jointed plugs that bend to 90 degrees and stop cast better than those that stop short of 90 degrees.

Also, why the 4 lines on the darter? One for the hook, one for the slope starting, what are the other two? Are you weighting them?

I also turned some darters but haven't gotten to the point where I screw them up yet.

Don't scew them up ... take some time and make a sled ... Take one of those blanks and rip it in half . Lay it on a block of wood like a darter blank and trace ,(bandsaw),leave some stock in the back (arse of plug).. mark where you want your belly hole .. On sled drill out belly hole and glue in a 3/8 dowel there or whatever you, you use for a belly hole .. In back of sled drill hole where the arse hole of plug is .. Now pre drill belly/arse of blanks ,, slip belly hole of blank over the dowel and screw the arse with and 1.5 drywall screw .. Blank should be held firmly in the sled so you can make square cuts at 90 degrees ..(bandsaw),, Make a pattern ,, trace darter profile,, leave a little line .. touch up beltsander to line ..

Trouble with maple and darters, Larry, is that the wood from each plank can be quite a bit different. Unfinished bodies vary as much as 1/2 an oz, even with wood that is dried to the same degree. They tend to approach each other when left in sealer a long time, but I don't feel I have any great grasp of how to time how long I should seal them.

Thinking I might go back to hard maple (or beech) instead. Though repeatedly sharpening tools becomes a pain when making quantities.

Gotta go. Talk throughout the week

I was curious about the consistency of the density of the wood one from the other before sealer? I have not used maple much less try building a darter.....never really fished them much? I know they rock but just have not been on my favorites list? Thanks for the info George......you have great insight!:uhuh:

Time for you to make some Gibbs darters, Eddy. That black one you showed me swam better than anything I've built.

Gotta go. Talk throughout the week

I'll say you gotta go. You've got more A-jrs to finish than Paul has fleas.

Most woods are porous, a few are not. White oak is not and that is why it is used for casks. I have not seen a table quantifying the porosity.
I have had the most sucess using a oil based polyurethane sanding sealer to seal and rattle can primer. I dip and drip my sealer.
Where were the Musso articles?

Vintage lure forum has a link.

Time for you to make some Gibbs darters, Eddy. That black one you showed me swam better than anything I've built.

I've made some Gibbs .. The 3 hook one .. I made one of those single belly I like (have fished enough to get fish approval).. reading your other post about going back to hard maple .. I'm done there .. Why not consider birch darters (gibbs).. Hard maple is to damm hard .. I swear some plugs split on impact of the water.. Weight is all over the place.. sux to work with,, thru drilling sux ,, tools hate it ... Only thing it has going for it ,, it swims well /no weight.. Birch dowel darter size are expensive $$ .. thinking about buying a board and ripping it up .. I bet you've done this ..

Cool stuff, Dave. You might try relieving the edges on the jointed like Musso did on his jointed darters. Jointed plugs that bend to 90 degrees and stop cast better than those that stop short of 90 degrees.

Also, why the 4 lines on the darter? One for the hook, one for the slope starting, what are the other two? Are you weighting them?

Ya, I like that look better but these were already done so I had no square ends so while I could cut them in half I couldn't make that nice V shape with the band saw as they'd roll if I tried to cut them lengthwise with no square ends. I turned 2 more last night to cut that way.

One of the the pencil marks is the belly hook, the others are just drawn every 1/4" as a guide to help me when I get to the belt sander so I know when to stop. I did well with the ones I made last year but I'm still experimenting with the length of that slope. The black one in that picture is the shortest slope I did last year but I had some that went back an inch or so further.

The top 2 or 3 have wider tails as I was going to try adding a tail weight. I tried that last year on some with the thin tails but then I needed to add a chin weight to get it to dig. I was hoping with a thicker tail maybe I wouldn't need the chin weight. I'm greedy and always want to cast further than the other guy :)

Yeah, I ripped a lot of birch for the Hab needle copies I did a couple of years ago. If you want to get a 6/4 plank and bring it down here I'll slice it up for you......might cost you a darter though ;).

Don't scew them up ... take some time and make a sled ... Take one of those blanks and rip it in half . Lay it on a block of wood like a darter blank and trace ,(bandsaw),leave some stock in the back (arse of plug).. mark where you want your belly hole .. On sled drill out belly hole and glue in a 3/8 dowel there or whatever you, you use for a belly hole .. In back of sled drill hole where the arse hole of plug is .. Now pre drill belly/arse of blanks ,, slip belly hole of blank over the dowel and screw the arse with and 1.5 drywall screw .. Blank should be held firmly in the sled so you can make square cuts at 90 degrees ..(bandsaw),, Make a pattern ,, trace darter profile,, leave a little line .. touch up beltsander to line ..

Funny enough the band saw is not my issue.
The two problems I have is getting the table saw cut just the right height in relation to the thru hole and then sanding the bevel after the bandsaw cut. Sometimes I swear if I look with the left eye they tilt one way, try the right eye and its tilted the other. Back and forth we go...

The top 2 or 3 have wider tails as I was going to try adding a tail weight. I tried that last year on some with the thin tails but then I needed to add a chin weight to get it to dig. I was hoping with a thicker tail maybe I wouldn't need the chin weight. I'm greedy and always want to cast further than the other guy :)

I'll be curious as to what you learn with the tail weight. Supposedly tail weights are death to a darter, but I'm skeptical since bottles carry them and float about the same. I've not tried weighting any darters, I'm even afraid to mess with hook weight, but I'd love to lose the tail hook and will probably try a few of this run with a small tail weight instead.

I also turned some darters but haven't gotten to the point where I screw them up yet.

forgot ... also make a "bed" too .. Same thing as sled minus belly dowell and arse screw part .. Use this on your drill press table to drill belly holes in blanks .. So blanks aren't all rolly poly and belly holes drill square .. if that makes any sense

Trouble with maple and darters, Larry, is that the wood from each plank can be quite a bit different. Unfinished bodies vary as much as 1/2 an oz, even with wood that is dried to the same degree. They tend to approach each other when left in sealer a long time, but I don't feel I have any great grasp of how to time how long I should seal them.

Thinking I might go back to hard maple (or beech) instead. Though repeatedly sharpening tools becomes a pain when making quantities.

After my oversealing incident last year I cut the soak time on the soft maple to 1-2 hours.. I was using slightly thinned spar urethane and I did not have any splits.

Funny enough the band saw is not my issue.
The two problems I have is getting the table saw cut just the right height in relation to the thru hole and then sanding the bevel after the bandsaw cut. Sometimes I swear if I look with the left eye they tilt one way, try the right eye and its tilted the other. Back and forth we go...

all on the bandsaw Dave ,, no table saw ..try it .. hold your sled flat on the table ,,cut beak,slope,, everything .. key is your blank firmly in sled,,then its just along for the ride

Sometimes I swear if I look with the left eye they tilt one way, try the right eye and its tilted the other. Back and forth we go...

EXACTLY TRUE!!!!!!!!!. I resanded a whole batch of darters last year then figured out my glasses make them twist depending on which eye I sight them with. :wall:

Eddy's jig is the way to go, but you need a vertical beltsander since the jig will be on its side.

Good morning and Happy New Year to everyone!! Just got up, kinda lazy today. Was away for the past week and will probably work on the large Nike again ( trying to get some 8/4 cedar or pine) Small one is done and is ready for paint. Next project is to finish up large surfster and work on some pikies. Going to use original C.C. paint schemes on them.
Got some Tiger maple when I was out in Pa. last week and will be concentrating on finishing a Huntboard I started months ago, and finishing two Shaker sewing tables I also have sitting around, so the plugbuilding will be on hold a few weeks.

You could use a drum on the drill press with a block the same size as the drum screwed to the table. Similar to an overhead or pin router.

Eddy's jig is the way to go, but you need a vertical beltsander since the jig will be on its side.

I just have a hand held BS cleated on the side of the bench .. If your bandsaw blade is decent you barely have to touch them ..

Good morning and Happy New Year to everyone!! Just got up, kinda lazy today. Was away for the past week and will probably work on the large Nike again ( trying to get some 8/4 cedar or pine)

Happy New year Sgt. ... sorry ,,. unless your a truck driver and your near stoughton ma. (downes and reader) ,, Don't know resources in NJ ..

I just have a hand held BS cleated on the side of the bench .. If your bandsaw blade is decent you barely have to touch them ..

I've got BS all over the place, but it doesn't help. Does that mean I need a new bandsaw?

Happy New year Sgt. ... sorry ,,. unless your a truck driver and your near stoughton ma. (downes and reader) ,, Don't know resources in NJ ..

I know where I can get some but to lazy to take the ride, plus the prices on wood is starting to get out of control. The guy I get my AYC from has not ordered any in two months because of the price. The tiger maple I just got cost me $9.00 bf :af:, paid $7.00 bf about six months ago!

Like minds...
Reminds me I gotta go shovel..snow. And get to the JakeCave. Catch you later and thanks for today's lessons..

George looks like you have a nice start to the "lipless" .
where did you get ideas on proto ? what type of wood?

I just turned some musso 6" swimmers and some spin's . Started to make a few BM Schoolie's. Not sure of their fish catching ability ?
That lipless has peaked my curiosity along with your predator knockoffs

all on the bandsaw Dave ,, no table saw ..try it .. hold your sled flat on the table ,,cut beak,slope,, everything .. key is your blank firmly in sled,,then its just along for the ride

Thats a good idea Eddie. I'll have to try that.

Morning all i have been off all week and forgot what day it was:smash:.

I've got BS all over the place, but it doesn't help. Does that mean I need a new bandsaw?

What bandsaw do you have as it might just need some tuning.

What bandsaw do you have as it might just need some tuning.

You're still asleep. That was tongue in cheek. I've got a Rockwell 14" (not to mention an ancient 20" Porter Cable in pieces), it could use some tuning (new tires), but everything else is set right. Even with high tension on a high count skip tooth blade (dressed with a stone and running in cool blocks) I don't get smooth enough cuts in maple to avoid sanding.

Eddy has a little bench top delta (I think) with a very thin kerf blade and very high speed. Does a better job for most plug building chores than my real saw. If I had someplace to put it I'd buy one just to do lip slots.

Paul .. That horizontal hole you drilled side to side in your spook,, Is that below the center of the plug .. Thanks .. can't tell from pic .. looks like thru wire is towards top of hole ..

G.

right thru on center and redrill lead after. The Youzuri had a round ball like a 00 buckshot and was on center. I have not put one below center but might be worth a shot. I also put a belly weight right directly below the horizontal weight too but to be honest i can tell which one it is as I made several last year and hid the darn weights so well i couldn't tell which was which so i disassembled the ones that i used that i liked and found out where the weight was but have not found the one with the belly and thu weight yet. I may not have swam it last year. I now don't try to be too fussy with belly weights so i can tell what I did.

I am just getting started in darter hell. Will be making fixture's this week hopefully. I am going to do the first part on the table saw as G. convinced me last week when he stopped by. To me this is the most fun part.

Making jigs sometimes (dare i say it) is more fun than making the plug itself.George i am now awake:smash:.One of these days i have to get over to your place would love to tinker with some of your older tools.I just got my overtime back so maybe i can get some toys done for some of you guys for plugfest.

Eddy has a little bench top delta (I think) with a very thin kerf blade and very high speed. Does a better job for most plug building chores than my real saw. If I had someplace to put it I'd buy one just to do lip slots.

Thats true ,, little Delta is pissa ($100.00)... I have a larger floor model Delta brandy new I rarely use ,, Its got the power but the speed on the little bench model does a better job .

I am just getting started in darter hell. Will be making fixture's this week hopefully. I am going to do the first part on the table saw as G. convinced me last week when he stopped by. To me this is the most fun part.

If i was making a jig to do it on a table saw I'd make it larger than it has to be . Cutting little pieces on a table saw is sketchy imho..

Good morning. Gets later and later each week.

Woody, in my experience decent bass like big lazy slow spooks more than the splashy faster kind. Hard to make yourself work them slow, however, particularly when things are slow and you are searching (same issue arises with swimmers).

Got a big thrill out of F Pintauro's articles about Musso. 2 weeks ago Back Beach was telling me how the "Musso" eely was such a great lure for him at the Race years back. I told him the only eelys I knew of were the BM and Pichney (a style plug I fished years ago a bit but left me underwhelmed). Also they are forward weighted and don't look like fast water plugs to me, so I was surprised (and a little skeptical) they were a hot item at the Race. Accordingly my eyes popped out when lo and behold there is a picture of one in Frank's article. That and a Musso bottle darter, and some lipless swimmers.
Certainly got the juices flowing. Here are some prototypes (next to a copy of a musso pine sr).

I figured folks would like the Musso articles- I sure got a woodie from them. Those, along with the work you and Paul do have me chomping at the bit to get into the shop.

Tried today, but could not what I intended for the Penn State duplicator I received for Xmas isn't going to work out for me. I'd have to make 1/16" thick (THIN!) templates, thus involving metal work, or cut originals in half lengthwise in order to use it. NOT and NOT! Going to return it and buck up for the Vega.

Thinking about a little 1.5oz. Surface Torpedo, like the ones pictured in one article. :drool:

Keep up the inspiring work,
W

Woody..
do a home made dupi...
ala fishbumwannabe, or Prof. M's version....
think you will be pleased with that one the most.

do a search for home made duplicator...:uhuh:

Yes Karl I am still using mine and I have a Vega and it has never been hooked up. For the type of runs I do, 30 would be a max per plug,mostly 5 or 10 it works great and it is kind of old school which I like too. Hell my lathe is probably older than Capesams:uhuh:

couple shots of the dup and one getting started

roughing/rounding it out with the gouge, using the dup as a the guide,
then getting started with the dup cutter...

done...
then move on to "orienting" :wave: Eddy... cut lip slots, then drilling..

but... 25 danny bodies, turned with the homemade rig.. about an hour and 40 minutes tops I'd guess...

Tain';t booger speed...but for cellar dwellin sawdust sniffers, that ain;'t bad!

if my memory serves me right...this may be the same 25 done..

been 4 or 5 years since i took them pics...so.. i think i grabbed them from the right file...

in regards to dip priming, I do this as well. 50/50 mix Zinsser shellac based (red label?) and denatured alcohol I believe. a little 220 grit to finish and its good to go.

I figured folks would like the Musso articles- I sure got a woodie from them. Those, along with the work you and Paul do have me chomping at the bit to get into the shop.

Tried today, but could not what I intended for the Penn State duplicator I received for Xmas isn't going to work out for me. I'd have to make 1/16" thick (THIN!) templates, thus involving metal work, or cut originals in half lengthwise in order to use it. NOT and NOT! Going to return it and buck up for the Vega.

Thinking about a little 1.5oz. Surface Torpedo, like the ones pictured in one article. :drool:

Keep up the inspiring work,
W


I have this duplicator and it works great. I make my templates out of wood. I'm all for keeping it simple.

Good morning. Gets later and later each week.

Woody, in my experience decent bass like big lazy slow spooks more than the splashy faster kind. Hard to make yourself work them slow, however, particularly when things are slow and you are searching (same issue arises with swimmers).

Got a big thrill out of F Pintauro's articles about Musso. 2 weeks ago Back Beach was telling me how the "Musso" eely was such a great lure for him at the Race years back. I told him the only eelys I knew of were the BM and Pichney (a style plug I fished years ago a bit but left me underwhelmed). Also they are forward weighted and don't look like fast water plugs to me, so I was surprised (and a little skeptical) they were a hot item at the Race. Accordingly my eyes popped out when lo and behold there is a picture of one in Frank's article. That and a Musso bottle darter, and some lipless swimmers.
Certainly got the juices flowing. Here are some prototypes (next to a copy of a musso pine sr).


That Musso bottle darter is a dead ringer for a plug I finally got nailed this fall. Just goes to show... aint nothing new.

That Musso bottle darter is a dead ringer for a plug I finally got nailed this fall. Just goes to show... aint nothing new.

Yep, just another Italian who was well ahead of his time...

Columbo(Columbus) found this place we live...

Corleone was the modern day father of capitalism..

Balboa beat the Russians...

in regards to dip priming, I do this as well. 50/50 mix Zinsser shellac based (red label?) and denatured alcohol I believe. a little 220 grit to finish and its good to go.

Thanks for the reply. I just finished priming around 50. I did 2 coats on one batch then 1 coat on another. I think 2 coats add a xtra layer to cover grain. Do you dip 1 or 2 coats?

And some Italian from Franklin invented the wetsuit potato

funny..

...Tried today, but could not what I intended for the Penn State duplicator I received for Xmas isn't going to work out for me. I'd have to make 1/16" thick (THIN!) templates, thus involving metal work, or cut originals in half lengthwise in order to use it. NOT and NOT! Going to return it and buck up for the Vega....

I started with that dup years ago. Worked out fine for me. Only upgraded when I started doing larger runs of plugs. Like Striperknight suggested, make the templates out of wood. I drew the profile of the plug on a piece of 1/2 inch pine shelving. Cut out the profile, sand it smooth, and then attach to the dup with two sided tape. You'll likely have to make a few adjustments to the dup to get it lined up right. Once you've done it a few times its pretty easy to set up and remove or switch templates.

Jigman

Thanks for the reply. I just finished priming around 50. I did 2 coats on one batch then 1 coat on another. I think 2 coats add a xtra layer to cover grain. Do you dip 1 or 2 coats?
depends on the grain of whatever wood I'm using, usually ayc, cherry, etc is just one coat. if I'm using mahogany for instance, I might dip, sand, and dip again.

I found that out with the grain in the wood. I did 2 looks good. I colored the primer w/ lamp black for a dark gray. 1 coat covers better. Thanks for the input.

speaking of dipping, I found this can of some black exterior oil based super paint and figured I'd try dipping a plug in it just to see how it worked. No sealing, no clear or primer, just the paint.

did a 40 made from ayc I think, took over a week to dry :smash: guess I should have thinned it. Finish has held up pretty good though.

I've found that having a thick layer of soft primer (like Cover Stain) under paint can result in the paint actually breaking away from the primer.

Ever see the paint and epoxy come off leaving the primer on the wood after dinging rocks?:wall:

agreed woody, this is why I make sure to now thin it out pretty good for dipping.

...Ever see the paint and epoxy come off leaving the primer on the wood after dinging rocks?:wall:

It means the paint is not sticking to the primer.

Jigman

I have never had that issue! Even after hook rash and dings my paint and clearcoat hold great with no lifting or peeling at all!:)

I have never had that issue! Even after hook rash and dings my paint and clearcoat hold great with no lifting or peeling at all!:)

I've noticed ... What's your clear coat ? ...:love:

Good morning, looks like I'm early...

Here's this weeks projects... I got a few of the darters from last week sealed. I turned a bunch of stuff yesterday. Some 'jointed' bodies to be done with the 'nike' stye head I've been messing with, a few more 6" darters and some that I supersized up to 7.5" to try on my conventional plugging rod which I'm hoping to use more next year.

I'd like a big swimmer in the 3.5-4 oz range and I ran some searches looking for dimensions on the big donny. I could find the overall length 7.5 and the lip pikie 3, but didn't find anything about widths or hook locations ?

I haven't been doing any finishing yet. I wanted to try and get everything turned and sealed first.

Good morning.
That's about where I am. My plugs are turned and marked, and some have started down the machineing belt. I did manage to clear some that have been in the works for a long while. Lurkers...and one offs.

After all the tutorials on darters I may gut it up and give them a try again.

Morning! Just back from breakfast with FishChick! I had a visitor in the shop yesterday for some plug building lessons! Pics in a moment! The "Kid" is a natural!:uhuh:

Here's one in particular that I've been working on. Cape Cod wood from a Cape Cod tree, made into a Cape Cod plug. I cut the branch last Summer and dried it on top of my furnace. Flaptail had mentioned that such a plug would be cool..

Good Morning guys.Fred that pretty cool:kewl:.Here are some i have been working on.

Fred that plug is awesome!:drool:

Lou you been busy!:uhuh:

Oops forgot these.

I had a lot of help over the years with that plug. There's a lot of PM and numbskull in it.
Lu you're making me want to build a duplicator. My plugs all look like they don't know each other.

Here is the pic of the fancy paint shaker i made.You have to love gorilla tape.This thing rocks turns paint that has been sitting their for over2 years into a milkshake in 30 seconds.

Frank came over yesterday for a day of plug turning! One of Frank's favorite plugs is the Guppy Canal Pencils made by the Hess Family, great plugs for sure and a favorite of many! Frank took a 32 pounder one day last season from the ditch......one of my season highlights was watching Frank play that fish! This season Frank will be fishing his Guppy knockoffs I am sure! Here are a few pics of Frank at the lathe!

Lou is that a jig saw [can't enlarge thumb?] ingenious !!

Jake I know the feeling sometimes my plugs are cousins sometimes strangers need more brother & sisters

I had a lot of help over the years with that plug. There's a lot of PM and numbskull in it.
Lu you're making me want to build a duplicator. My plugs all look like they don't know each other.

Save yourself the trouble just send me the ones you want and i will copy them for you.:devil2:

Here is Frank in a few more of the finished body! A little more hand sanding and Frank will have them in sealer! Nice work Frank and a great day! Thanks for coming by.....and for the coffee!:uhuh:

Lou is that a jig saw [can't enlarge thumb?] ingenious !!

Jake I know the feeling sometimes my plugs are cousins sometimes strangers need more brother & sisters

Yes its an old jigsaw i had sitting around.

Lu, awesome!
In the works..

All youzz guys stuff looks great. I am pretty much done with turning, except for some small runs of some vintage stuff that several members of both sites have been nice enough to lend me this winter, still got a few coming. Some real nice Musso's and Pichney's. I really enjoy that part, the old stuff. I am sealing every day now and belly weighting now and soon it will be prime time. Still got a special tail wgt mold in the process for Slip and I and a plug fixture or 2 for myself. trying to clean up that deal I got on the Delta drill press and I have a few lip styles I need to make for those vintage plugs I will be doing so I have gov. jobs going at work too. I luv being too busy as I get bored fast and jump around a lot, must be my ADD.

Good morning, Paul
You have ADD, I have SUBTRACT, I lose stuff just by putting it down. Sometimes it's still in my hand. I was clearing yeaterday and lost my acid brush. Guess where I found it..:smash:In my hand. E-tex makes you high..

nice Fred. I like them.
Lawrence it looks like you got the heat going in your cave, No?

Nice job on those pencils Frank. I am now making 4 sizes of those things right down to a cute little one. It is my favorite canal plug and has been since Brad made them. In mine I weight the crap out of them and really just for the canal as they are really too heavy for non current applications. You got a good mentor.

Good morning, Paul
You have ADD, I have SUBTRACT, I lose stuff just by putting it down. Sometimes it's still in my hand. I was clearing yeaterday and lost my acid brush. Guess where I found it..:smash:In my hand. E-tex makes you high..

What is it called it you have both?:wall:

BF and Frank, did you cut the front of the pencil on a bandsaw? The bottom looks like you maybe used a drum sander???

I would be really interested in seeing some jigs for cutting different plug blanks on a band saw.

No luck on selling the Shopsmith, so am going to use it for the lathe and boring. Maybe get a mini and duplicator next year....

Not getting the lathe turning yet, as we are in the process of packing up my mom's condo and moving her to a retirement community this week, and storing much stuff at my house...:smash: I hope to be turning within two weeks.

Fred you need some acid brushes? I will bring you some at plugfest as I got a lot of them and I am using something different now. You are welcome some of them. Then you can leave them everywhere. BTW I do that all the time, especially the pencil on my ear thing.

Mornin all. finish dip priming all the fleet this week. Started painting alittle. Might put together a booth. I have a ton to paint. I did swirl a atom jr and BM spin atom. Spary paint and a plastic glove plug rolled thru my hand. saran wrap also worked. Key was to have paint that doesn't set up instantly. I base spray gloss enamel ivory white, spray desired color then pull plug thru gloved hand. For the wrap method, spray paint , wrap and quickly remove plaaticwrap.

What is it called it you have both?:wall:

a losing battle

going to have to try some of those swirl finishes some day . I like the looks of those

nice plug Fred ,,, Cape Cod Ceadar ? Flap refferrance ..

Frank,, You'll enjoy catching on that plug .. nice job ..


Lu .. I think I got that same jig saw ..brillant .

I havn't really been hitting it as hard as you guys ,,. Been messing with old school hook hangers,,cotter pins ,, Flaptail quest got me interrested .. made some predators,, and 3 differant flaptails going now.. I expect it to be slow this winter ,, so thinking more time in the future .. Sux cutting that goofy beetlejuice face on plugs .. Just winging it ,, Made a 2 belly hook plug that ended up a single hook after back and forth on the beltsander trying to get face even ..

Dave Ross pm'd you ... cool darters

pbadad, those look great! Thanks for the tip, too! gonna try that.

pbadad, those look great! Thanks for the tip, too! gonna try that.

2nd that ... love that cloudy blue color ..

[QUOTE=Tagger;737977]nice plug Fred ,,, Cape Cod Ceadar ? Flap refferrance ..

Hi Eddie!
From an Eastern Cedar in my front yard. From the top of it you can see P-town and beyond to Wood End and Race Point. Look the other way and you can see Head of the Meadow and Coast Guard. Look South and you can see Pamet and beyond. Not that I was ever in the top of that tree...

nice plug Fred ,,, Cape Cod Ceadar ? Flap refferrance ..

Frank,, You'll enjoy catching on that plug .. nice job ..


Lu .. I think I got that same jig saw ..brillant .

I havn't really been hitting it as hard as you guys ,,. Been messing with old school hook hangers,,cotter pins ,, Flaptail quest got me interrested .. made some predators,, and 3 differant flaptails going now.. I expect it to be slow this winter ,, so thinking more time in the future .. Sux cutting that goofy beetlejuice face on plugs .. Just winging it ,, Made a 2 belly hook plug that ended up a single hook after back and forth on the beltsander trying to get face even ..

Dave Ross pm'd you ... cool darters

Eddy which face got a pic i may be able to help you as i am working on some flaptails myself.



2nd that ... love that cloudy blue color ..

3rd that and yes that cloudy blue color jumps out at you.

Here is Frank in a few more of the finished body! A little more hand sanding and Frank will have them in sealer! Nice work Frank and a great day! Thanks for coming by.....and for the coffee!:uhuh:


I, as well as many other people are lucky to call Bigfish a friend. Larry did most of the first one, then we split the second one, and he said he didn't look as I did the third one all myself, but I think Bigfish looked over my shoulder a little.

In that picture of me holding the two plugs I look strange. I think I was OD'ing on sawdust. Or the meds for the pulled back muscles were wearing off. Any way I had a wonderful day in the cave with Bigfish. Now I just have to keep from screwing up the paint job.
Peace everyone.

Hey Lu ... took a while to do that .. hope your still there .. any help appreciated .. I have no control just winging it on the belt sander .. Shorter plug was much longer ,,but I planned to make some single hook ,, still need a method ... This can't be the way Heddon di it .. Atom like plug I'm not sure on the face yet .. but I plan to do cotter pin hangers on there .. Made flaptail brackets myself .. Bought picture hanging kit and threw everything away ,, just wanted brass nails .. sure there's a better way there too .. Beetle Juice !!!!!

Glad you guys like. I feel the key is the slow drying paint. Testers spray enamel and the Krlon Short cuts set up to touch in 30 min. The 12 min spray colors tack quickly when you remove the wrap or slide thru your latex gloved hand. Gotta go. Will ck. in later. Have a sparkling week.

Hey Lu ... took a while to do that .. hope your still there .. any help appreciated .. I have no control just winging it on the belt sander .. Shorter plug was much longer ,,but I planned to make some single hook ,, still need a method ... This can't be the way Heddon di it .. Atom like plug I'm not sure on the face yet .. but I plan to do cotter pin hangers on there .. Made flaptail brackets myself .. Bought picture hanging kit and threw everything away ,, just wanted brass nails .. sure there's a better way there too .. Beetle Juice !!!!!

Eddy i am making the same type of lure (Heddon Vamp) i will be making a jig to make the faces today i will send all info and take pics for you as i figured an easy way to do it.

Eddy i am making the same type of lure (Heddon Vamp) i will be making a jig to make the faces today i will send all info and take pics for you as i figured an easy way to do it.

:jump1: :happy:

Eddy i wa going to make my own flaptail holders were did you get those?

BF and Frank, did you cut the front of the pencil on a bandsaw? The bottom looks like you maybe used a drum sander???

I would be really interested in seeing some jigs for cutting different plug blanks on a band saw.


Ross, here is what I use for pencil faces. Just rough out the angle with a saw and make the face with this angled v block (glued up 2 4x4's).

Eddy i wa going to make my own flaptail holders were did you get those?

I made them myself ... hook holders are large from Moores... I think netcraft sells them too .. I know swivels are better than brass nails and thru wired over hangers ,,. trying to make something old looking .. something Flap would like .. I also plan on fishing them ..

Eddie had pm'd me to ask if I hyrdro oriented the darters and it was an interesting question so I am posting the answer here.

I did not hydro orient them this year (at least not yet). The end grain of maple soaks up a lot of sealer, in fact I oversealed a batch last year and they were too heavy to float once they were wired.

last year I hydro oriented them before cutting the slope, and after they were sealed, some of them floated differently. I think the weight of the sealer absorbed thru the end grain on the darter slope made them float differently.

There was a discussion a few years back about hydro orienting I think on SOL, and someone had said that if a primed blank of theirs floated wrong, they'd found if they just sprayed another coat of primer on one side that the weight of the paint was enough to even it out. So I was going to try that this year.

probably why Musso went to plastic, too many variables. maybe only worth sealing for a short time line and take your chances with water intrusion.

Eddy here is the jig i made today for doing the faces on the Vamps.

That could be done with a drum sander in a drill press, too! Woohoo! Thanks Lu!

I wish you hadn't shown that. I've resisted making a router table for 20 years, now I feel like I need one :crying:

Can never have enough tools George.:uhuh:

nice Lu ... you screw the blanks on jig up thru the bottom ?

Lu thats a great jig. You guys have some ingenious ideas about how to do things...

nice Lu ... you screw the blanks on jig up thru the bottom ?

No Eddy i have two wooden dowels sticking out and mount the lure on them(belly holes).I will take more pics when i get home later.Takes about 20 seconds to do both sides.When i made the pattern i double sided taped two pieces of oak and then marked the wood for the cut then separated the pieces giving me exact copies flip one and you get a mirror image of the other.The hard part was the spacing before i would commit to screwing it together i used crazy glue to hold the pattern for the first side as i tested it to get the desired depth once i got it i predrilled and screwed it tight then did the same for the other side.

I wish you hadn't shown that. I've resisted making a router table for 20 years, now I feel like I need one :crying:

George looking at your drill press i am surprised you have not made a table top for it.

And looking at your extension cord set up I wonder why you're still alive. Stay away from toaster ovens is all I can say.

And looking at your extension cord set up I wonder why you're still alive. Stay away from toaster ovens is all I can say.

:biglaugh::biglaugh::rotf2::rotf2: Just surge protecting everything .

trying to make this ,,, Heddon (swimmer-flaptail) in upper right hand corner .. PIA .. very labor intensive .. I can see I already messed up line tie ,, mines horizontal .. I never saw a flaptail swimmer .. can't see it swimming very well ,, Thanks Lu .... nice inferno Numby ..

Saltwater Lures (http://www.shorelinebt.com/id34.html)

I'm going to have so much solder on top of this plug I gotta belly weight so it don't flip ..

:rotf2::rotf2::biglaugh::biglaugh::rotf2::rotf2: Just surge protecting everything .

I had the cord catch in my drill press and it ripped the 4' flourescent light off the ceiling on top of me .. I had to change my shorts ..

I never seen that lure Eddy and your solder work looks great nice job on all the hardware :uhuh:.I can't wait to see the finished product:drool::drool:.I know we are not the only two making flaptails i wonder what the other mad scientists are working on?

Morning guys. started painting the army of plugs. An endless task, especially when you have airbrush hell. finally search threads on brush remedies. Cutting paint w/50/50 windex and water worked much better than straight water. Plus I was using to thick of consisitency. The single stage gun was used for base coats and top/bottom colors. Dual stage for fogging and lateral lines. I use the Bernzy formula for cleaning. Lucky for myself I have a utility sink w/in reach of my airbrush to clean out w/air and hot water. Had the heat gun set up to set the paint. Don't know if necessary but I like the way the paint dries to faciitate a second coat or color overlay. Haven't spun anything inweeks. Prepping the plugs to get ready for paint took all spare time. I have a template made for a GTS-2 & GTS-3. Hope everyone had a good week.

Good mornin' all. I got so much in the works I'm getting dizzy. Only a month to finish it........gonna be ugly. Nothing is past the primer stage and most haven't even seen sealer yet.

Winter ain't long enough these days.

Good mornin' all. I got so much in the works I'm getting dizzy. Only a month to finish it........gonna be ugly. Nothing is past the primer stage and most haven't even seen sealer yet.

Winter ain't long enough these days.

i hear you george. I have not primed anything yet. I think this year I am not going to kill myself this last month and bring what I have finished and that's it. Will give me more time to visit others and enjoy myself more. Last year was very hectic the last few weeks and it got to be not fun.I am looking at a few hundred sealed plugs right now and I know there is no way in hell they are all getting finished and I don't really care.

Hi guys, I have a few plugs to epoxy from last year and many scattered bodies but I'd like to turn a few before the fest. I was thinking of trying that bluefish bomb plug.

BTW I spent the day in God's country at Steve's, Capesams, yesterday. Quite the shop. He has more stuff unfinished and stored than I have ever made. His showroom was a drool fest. His reproductions of plugs of days gone by were impressive. A true artist and very meticulous. Got several ideas for my own building and got to see several ways he goes about building which will is always good for stimulating new ideas on my end. It sure was fun and makes me feel like I'm not the only one with a problem.

Morning guys. started painting the army of plugs. An endless task, especially when you have airbrush hell. finally search threads on brush remedies. Cutting paint w/50/50 windex and water worked much better than straight water. Plus I was using to thick of consisitency. The single stage gun was used for base coats and top/bottom colors. Dual stage for fogging and lateral lines. I use the Bernzy formula for cleaning. Lucky for myself I have a utility sink w/in reach of my airbrush to clean out w/air and hot water. Had the heat gun set up to set the paint. Don't know if necessary but I like the way the paint dries to faciitate a second coat or color overlay. Haven't spun anything inweeks. Prepping the plugs to get ready for paint took all spare time. I have a template made for a GTS-2 & GTS-3. Hope everyone had a good week.

Morning guys! PB......the cleaning mix is a mix of simple green, windex and water......25/25/and 50. I do not heat set my paint......never felt the need so save yourself the step. I try to lay the body of my paint on in stages while still damp with the exception of detail like dots/spots and eye shading. Be careful when building layers because if you get too heavy the air pressure will "blow out" your paint and ruin it. Just offering a little help. When we gonna see some pics???:drool:

Hey Bruce I need to talk to you after I get home from church to find out what size dia. you want me to make that lead thing at the tail, exposed part.. I forgot what we decided on. I'll call you later.

Bruce you should have plenty of turning time now with the Pats out of the picture??!:uhuh:

I heat set all my paints, different strokes for different folks.

Lawrence I even remembered to give Steve that plug

Alot of people do Paul. I have just never felt the need. My bonding is great even after hook rash sets in and they get beat there is no paint failure/lifting. Just trying to let folks know it may be a wasted step. Different strokes for different folks.

Thanks for the delivery Paul! Hope CS is well? Hey...can you say a prayer for all of us sicko's??:jump1:

Paul, did you see the picture recently posted someplace with 2 of Stan's weights and a popper, that showed it pretty well. Looked like 45 degrees, and the shoulder was more than a 1/16". I figured you say that, guess I should have saved it. Doesn't Peter have some?
I should be home till noon, so call my cell

ya no Pats, I know:wall::smash::devil2:

I have some auto-air black paint I have to heatset that.

Bruce I have some of those auto air paints?? You like them?? Use them much?

I also got my darter machining done so i got a few done. Now to seal and throw in the ocean to see if they come in right side up. Shape wise they are exact and I am very happy with the results but still nervous they will not swim right but won't know till they get wet. so far so good. I also have a few Pichneys coming on loan so I can copy a few of those too.
I have no less than 6, new to me, vintage Pichney and Musso plugs i am copying this year. A few gentleman have been very generous in lending me the plugs. This is why i am behind this year as i have been spending more time on these, and to me that is the fun part. I will eventually get them all done but it will be a little later this year.

Bruce I have some of those auto air paints?? You like them?? Use them much?

no, I try to use the regular

Paul, I bumped up the prototype thread, there is a pic of the weight there
not sure if it needs to be quite that big of a shoulder but you get the idea

I have your counter here

Here is the Floyd Roman Nike Jr. I have been working on! As you know Paul gave me one of his blanks (pictured in primer) which he copied from an original so I hand turned mine and it came out perfect I think! The curves on these plugs are super sexy!:drool: Paul likes the "old school" look of his belly grommets tight to the body (which I love too) but I could not resist setting my grommets into the body for a sleek look! I will seal this plug, prime and I am debating color choice but am leaning towards my bunker pattern! I think this pattern lends itself well to the swooping shape of the body! Of course I am going to have to turn some more! Also will be turning some smaller versions of the Nike shortly!:uhuh: Thanks again Paul!

Last year I made a lot of pencils and gave a lot a way, it really does turn it into work. I've been scaling everything back a lot this year, justy doing 1/2 a dozen of a type at a time..

George sent me the dimensions for the big 7.5" donny swimmer last week so that was this weeks project for me. I took one for a swim this morning and I liked it a lot. I have some bass wood an dwhite cedar so I may try a floating one from those woods and see what they do.

Does anyone know what lip the 6" maple version uses?

I'm still messing with a larger darter. I tested these 2 yesterday and ended up extending the slopes a little further when I got home and resealing them, so I need to test these 2 again..

I was going to post a picture but forgot to attach it. Here's the big donny's I was working on. BF those look great! I havent started messing with those yet although they are still on the list for this year..

DJ...those look pissa! Darters scare the bejesus out of me!:err:

I like darters but didn't like trying to make them all the same.
I did some years ago with a single belly hook.
some were a flop, but others were great.
I think fishweewee had a great night on Block until he lost this to a fish.

Love the face Bruce! Different! Bet it dug great too!

Diggin I have one of each of the Mussos Jr.'s and I am copying them this winter. The lips are the same but the lip slots are the deciding factor, along with the wood. The maple is obviously maple and uses the high slot lefty lip and a smaller belly wgt.the pine uses the high slot lip too, but a heavier belly wgt. up past the thru wire. The surface swimmer uses the low slot lefty lip with similar wgt. length. Hope this helps. The Sr.'s use similar configurations. I handled a few Sr.'s yesterday and got a few naked ones to copy.

Larry I want you to paint one for me too. If you need another i will send it to you.

Send along as many as you want Paul....glad to do them! What colors are you thinking? I can have them done for PlugFest if you get them here quick!:uhuh:

Bruce i just don't want to make the exposed part too big in diameter for the plug you are going to put it in so you have to do too much filing to reduce it's size but that maybe better as you can then use it for other applications.

your choice, although I like that goldfish orangie paint scheme thing you do, so one of those would be nice. I will send you 2 or 3 more when the sealer has dried, early next week probably. thank you.

Thats a real special one......but for you Paul consider it done! That will look awesome!:uhuh: Is that the one with the scales?

yes I luv that pattern. I saw a few Capesams did on some of his plugs and the ones you have done and it is very pleasing to my eye.

I will do it then! As I said send a few and I can do them however you want!

As Ladka would say "tank ou very mutz"

Diggin I have one of each of the Mussos Jr.'s and I am copying them this winter. The lips are the same but the lip slots are the deciding factor, along with the wood. The maple is obviously maple and uses the high slot lefty lip and a smaller belly wgt.the pine uses the high slot lip too, but a heavier belly wgt. up past the thru wire. The surface swimmer uses the low slot lefty lip with similar wgt. length. Hope this helps. The Sr.'s use similar configurations. I handled a few Sr.'s yesterday and got a few naked ones to copy.


Paul are they using lefty 1 or 2 's? I tried a 2 and had a lot more roll than I liked. Maybe thats why all of the ones I see pictures of are blind so the eyes don't make the roll so obvious ?

The big maple one with the pikie 3 lip rolled much less.

Spent 6hrs painting yesturday, it's amazing how little I got done.:wall:

Everything came out OK but very time consuming this air brush.


Looking at some pics you guys have put up here, I am envious of the quality of wood your using. Can't get AYC down here. Are you guys using mainly AYC?

Lots do Bill....guys making darters and dep divers/swimmers use maple alot or birch. Use what you got Bill......try contacting #^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^&#^& as he might ship you some AYC.....check out his website! Pretty sure he ships wood?

Paul, I bumped up the prototype thread, there is a pic of the weight there
not sure if it needs to be quite that big of a shoulder but you get the idea

I have your counter here

Morning guys.
Bruce coincidence i am working on same type of tail weight mold.:smash:

Well....good mor....err.....afternoon Lou! Sleep in a bit??:)

Looking at some pics you guys have put up here, I am envious of the quality of wood your using. Can't get AYC down here. Are you guys using mainly AYC?

Bill, give Medford Cedar a call, he carries 2x2's! Not sure if he got a new load in yet, I'm going to try to get him to get some thicker stock also.

Morning guys.
Bruce coincidence i am working on same type of tail weight mold.:smash:

I bet it won't take you 2 years :hidin:

good luck with it

LOL Bruce trust me when i say that a certain builder has been waiting patiently for over a year for me to make him something so i can sympathize with Paul.Geez i still owe Pbadad a decent wire bender.:smash: Hey Paul i'll race you i bet i can have mine built before Armageddon in 2012. :rotf2::rotf2:

Bill, give Medford Cedar a call, he carries 2x2's! Not sure if he got a new load in yet, I'm going to try to get him to get some thicker stock also.

Thanks, I stopped there this fall on the way back from fishing but he was closed. I'll give him a call.

Also, thanks Larry will shoot Scott a pm.

Bill

I was going to post a picture but forgot to attach it. Here's the big donny's I was working on. BF those look great! I havent started messing with those yet although they are still on the list for this year..

Those Donnys look good. I just did a bunch of sr's myself in pine.(inspired by Numby, of course) Fortunately I did have one original donny sr in my stash to copy. After disecting the plug and pulling out the belly weight I found out the belly weights were hand poured into the plug body and weighed almost exactly 1/2 oz. I found the same thing on the donny pine jr too.(hand poured belly weights, not glued in)

My hook positions are the same as yours, no tail hook, but I might insert 6 grams of lead(what the trebles I'm using weigh) into the tail to help it fly.

What type of lip are you using?

Paul are they using lefty 1 or 2 's? I tried a 2 and had a lot more roll than I liked. Maybe thats why all of the ones I see pictures of are blind so the eyes don't make the roll so obvious ?

The big maple one with the pikie 3 lip rolled much less.

They use a lefty 2, but the lip is mounted above center (on most musso swimmers of various sizes). Slot is .32" down from the top of the head....on both the Jr and SR.

The large SS also uses a lefty 2 mid slot lip. The Maple and the Pine use the Pikie 3 lip.

Those Donnys look good. I just did a bunch of sr's myself in pine.(inspired by Numby, of course) Fortunately I did have one original donny sr in my stash to copy. After disecting the plug and pulling out the belly weight I found out the belly weights were hand poured into the plug body and weighed almost exactly 1/2 oz. I found the same thing on the donny pine jr too.(hand poured belly weights, not glued in)

My hook positions are the same as yours, no tail hook, but I might insert 6 grams of lead(what the trebles I'm using weigh) into the tail to help it fly.

What type of lip are you using?

:eek5::eek5::eek5: Mike, before you "dissect" any more plugs check with me, I can probably save you the sin.

My hook positions are the same as yours, no tail hook, but I might insert 6 grams of lead(what the trebles I'm using weigh) into the tail to help it fly.

What type of lip are you using?

The tail weight is a good option if you are leaving off the tail hook.

:eek5::eek5::eek5: Mike, before you "dissect" any more plugs check with me, I can probably save you the sin.

Will do, you'd disown me if you saw some of the plug building sins going on in my basement right now. I think its called learning by your own mistakes..:gorez:

Don't get me wrong, I haven't succumbed to any bodily injuries, but some of my classic plugs are, shall we say, two piece...:angel:

Hopefully some good will come from it....if not, there always my fall back bait....

The tail weight is a good option if you are leaving off the tail hook.

I'm not a tail hook fan either. I like what you did with the donny sr's and am implementing the same setup, meaning sans the tail hook.

I'm not a tail hook fan either. I like what you did with the donny sr's and am implementing the same setup, meaning sans the tail hook.

One word of caution, in places with a lot of current, bass seem to end up on the tail hook more than I would have guessed.

Paul..glad u could make it down and got something usefull out of the visit....your welcome to come again when time allows.

Larry.....thanks for the plug....your work is very clean and neet.Keep up the good work.:kewl:

Steve you are more than welcome! How did you like the box? LOL! That was fun as I have never made a box before......after that one I know what I will do differently for better results! I hope I will see you at PlugFest?? It won't be the same if you are not there??

Hey Flap ...

more

Hey Lu, No biggie on the bender. Just remiind me how to use the old one. It's seems to escape my memory. No matter what I do I can't get both sides right.

Tagger those are sweet, I'm sure Flap is smiling seeing them.