Eddie, those are freakin awesome!!

Eddie, those are freakin awesome!!

yeah that :claps:

Thanks . i decided a Flaptail is a plug I'll never make a jig for, so no two will be alike .. It will be my fun plug ... just wing it .. That little single hook job was a double hook .. just kept getting shorter ..

Shoulda made 'em cross-eyed.

put a pair of glasses on them. Very nice job Ed.

Giving a plug building lesson to a kid and his father today .. I fish with them down the canal .. more the kid than the father ,, He's a natural . Won a Jr. State pin for Albie .. Good kid ,, there's still hope in the world ..

Top of the morning all. Finished with the painting of the battalion. E-tex'd a few last night. I wish I could find a proven 1 part waterbase finish. Dip it and forget it. I've done some searching but with mixed thoughts. Anyway I got out yesterday to swim the 5 new finished models. All performed great. Excited over the replica Atom 54B. It swam swaying under the surface 1-2'. With the eye bent up it constanly swam under to 2'. Adding some current from the stream it held it's own. I still am surprised a tailweighted only swimmer can swim that well. I used a 7 gram plus 1 cut in half. Approx 10-11 grams. Been reading the past and present posts on spray booths. Still undecided on "HOW". Mostly for createx but thats not the problem at home. It's the fumes from spray bombs and shooting Zinseer oil base primer. Personally to make a booth not to handle these "stinky" paints is pointless. I use a good respirator while spraying but when I use to spray cans , it seems odd to watch to others in the house "stagger as they walked."

Tagger great job on the flaptail. Nice site "fishmaster". Many fun ideas to make when get "bored" with the standards!!

Hello. Tested a bunch of stuff this week (the break in the weather was great).

Medium Pichney dannys with tail weights (and the available oversized lips) were fine.

Small version of my skinny donny was fine (but now I wonder why I want them anyways)

The Musso lipless swimmer and Musso bottledarter were unimpressive (probably just not right since I don't have originals)

Swam an original Pichney A40 that is much bigger than his more common version (looks like it was built on a conrad body). Very impressed.....off to the xray and cloning dept for that one.

Tried out Back Beach's rumor plug, the Musso Eely clone, that I'd never had heard of until he sent me searching. Jackpot there! Big time I suspect. Came home and started a mess more immediately. Way cool bringing something like this back to life. I'd thank Mike, but to think I learned something this good about plugs from an eel guy is more than I can bear.

The plug that was a disappointment was the large Pichney SS. Although as exact as I can make them, they don't swim like the BM versions (that have a slight concavity to the front 1/2). I think the flat/convex forward shape of the Pichney may be planing the head of the plug up and lifting the lip requiring a faster retrieve to keep it working. Whatever, it means more tweeking.

Numb has a good point about back hooks .. couldn't figure out why but have had occasions where bass where on back hook .
Had one eve where 4 bass up to 25# ended up rear hook??
conditions where shallow rocky Ripping water . I'll keep my back hooks. And tha plug only had a siwash :biglaugh:

no pics guys ??? .. George what is that Pichney plug you speak of ,,. I saw a real long thin danny type i wondered if it was pichney ??

Some pictures. The yellow is the BM original.

Looks pichney .. minus eye .. I like this long thin stuff .. I think fish are more keyed into it with present bait available ..

George is the blue tape one the pichney ? ... love that Pred/Head bottle ..

Is the lipless going to be tweaked ? I was hoping to get to some sort of lipless .
I'm going to try and conjure up an original musso

no pics guys ??? .. George what is that Pichney plug you speak of ,,. I saw a real long thin danny type i wondered if it was pichney ??

Pichney made an eely, and BM copied it (that is what you just posted).....those are common and the plugs you are thinking about. Turns out Musso made one, too. Mike asked me about it earlier this winter. I told him it didn't exist as far as I knew. Two days letter the link to the Musso articles appeared and lo and behold there it was!

Using the picture, and what I've learned about Musso from copying his plugs I was able to make a good guess how it was set up. When the weight came out right, and the plug floated as I thought it should I was pretty sure I had it. Yesterday when I swam it I became sure. There is a jointed version as well....got one in sealer to test soon.

Is the lipless going to be tweaked ? I was hoping to get to some sort of lipless .
I'm going to try and conjure up an original musso

The slope on the head of the lipless is too much. The weighting is a guess (essentially like his bottle but without the tail weight). I don't have an original. If you get a large one (the medium is different) let me know.

George is the blue tape one the pichney ? ... love that Pred/Head bottle ..

The taped one is a small version of my "skinny donny" swimmer.
The bottle darter is too aggressive and needs different face angles.

too bad about the SS. I am making them too and now i am not so thrilled to throw in the water. I will try this week as a few are still drying from sealer. I used red cedar and pine. I am falling behind as i only got a few plugs to primer. Going to seal a few darters today and pray for the correct end result weight. I weighed the one you gave and it came out 2.9 oz's with hooks. My fingers are crossed.

Given that G is a genius I am assuming this pic is PRE test swim, but I do see some inconsistent variables that could have the effect of skewing results.

Looks pichney .. minus eye .. I like this long thin stuff .. I think fish are more keyed into it with present bait available ..

I'm thinking that is a Salty kit plug because of the eye, paint, newness factor. BMs were all blind I believe.

DP Eelis for comparison. Non-sloped 5.75" and 7". Sloped 5.75" and 7".

from what i have heard Don's favorite lipless was a smaller one

Good morning everyone. George reading your posts makes me realize just how much of the science behind this I don't know.

I wanted to try some of the big donny surface plugs. I didn't have pine so I made a prototype of white cedar and 1 of basswood that I hadn;t been using for anything. After tweaking the weighting I got the basswood one weighted to do what I want. I'm sure its not set up 'correctly' but it looks like it will work where I will fish it. I guess until I get it into some moving water I won't really know for sure. Its amazing how much current changes how a plug works.

My current project is a polaris. I made some bigger ones last year for the canal and when you really leaned into a cast they'd get that slight wobble that costs you 20 yards.. I gotta get that figured out.

I had 2 smaller 5 1/2 inch ones that I used a bunch last fall that cast great. At the end of the year I brought them into the shop so I could copy them this winter. When I went to look at them yesterday the epoxy had lifted off the paint. Thats the only 2 plugs it happened to, so frustrating..

Given that G is a genius I am assuming this pic is PRE test swim, but I do see some inconsistent variables that could have the effect of skewing results.

If I was a genius I wouldn't have to learn all this stuff the hard way. I tweak the lips and wires of every swimmer to try and get it to do what I want (and often adjust more while fishing for various conditions). When I can't I know I've got a problem.

That big white one with the red hooks was the problem child. It has a tail weight to compensate for the absence of a tail hook and this set up worked great in the smaller white proto at the top. The BM is a heavier plug and floats very low in the nose without the tail hook (and fished very well that way). But even when I added weight and changed lips (I cut several different shapes) and bent wires up and down that white plug wasn't right at the speed I retrieve them. I think it is the planing action of the body that is wrong.....something I'd never thought about in swimmers previously (in needles and spooks it matters) and which is why I posted about it. I suspect if I loose the tail weight and upsize the front hook I can make it work. It will cast worse, however. On the next run I'll put some concavity into the front of the body and try again.

Help I'm not seeing variables ... p.s. thanks for DP eely pics ..

That big DP danny .. When I made that I had to bend the eye down like a bastadge to get it to swim decent. The orig I copied from (wich had been fished) the eye was bent the same way ..

G. I turned the tail on my SS to a smaller dia. to hopefully allow for the no tail hook. We'll see.:smash:
As far as my Musso daters go I intend to soak them today for half hour periods and weigh them, if too light back in they go till I get the weight I want, that is with the spar sealer. I intend to do a couple in epoxy heat seal too just to fine out what happens.

When I went to look at them yesterday the epoxy had lifted off the paint. Thats the only 2 plugs it happened to, so frustrating..

Probably you know this already, but for those that don't you can salvage them by warming them with a heat gun. The epoxy will soften and come right off. Works for rod guides and reel seats, too.

At the end of the year I brought them into the shop so I could copy them this winter. When I went to look at them yesterday the epoxy had lifted off the paint. Thats the only 2 plugs it happened to, so frustrating..

I have a Nike I made .. looks like its in a plastic bag ... mirror coat ?

Help I'm not seeing variables ... p.s. thanks for DP eely pics ..

I was comparing corresponding features of the BM and the Problem Child that could affect the PC's performance.

Line tie angle. Tail flag vs. no tail hook. Etc...

G- Did you check the amount of lip protrusion below the chin on the BM and PC?

G- Did you check the amount of lip protrusion below the chin on the BM and PC?

Yup, and I swam it with several different lips, tail flag, no tail flag, loop up, loop down, full tail weight, 1/2 tail weight, 6x and 4x hooks, and 8 grams of extra belly weight.

The BM is a heavier plug it turns out, by about 1/2 an oz (when compared to the original Pichney I based mine on and about 3/8-1/4 oz when compared to the other large BM ss I own). The forward 1/2 of the BM has a slight concavity to it, and the weight seems marginally further forward. I think this lets the head of the plug come down more easily and start working sooner.

My plug (and the original Pichney) sits level and a bit higher. This means the slope of the belly to nose planes the plug up, before the lip gets enough grab to pull it down. Hence the plug "plows" before it swims, particularly as the line angle gets steeper. A deeper lip or a bent up line tie (which is why it is up in the picture) helps some, but not enough. I plan to retry with a higher wire slot lip, a chin weight, and/or a much bigger than original belly weight. I also need to swim the original and see if it shared the problem (and xray the BM to see why it is so much heavier than the other BM's I've xrayed).

This is an issue most guys who fish spinning tackle would never notice. The plug swims fine at medium speeds. But I want stuff that swims fine at lower speeds since I have more confidence fishing that way in the dark. It is very hard to retrieve that slow with a big spinner.

The Musso lipless swimmer and Musso bottledarter were unimpressive (probably just not right since I don't have originals)



I have worked off and on with a Musso Lipless swimmer for years unable to get things just right. I have an original that you can borrow. If you are interested shoot me a PM. I also have a bottle darter from Musso but Digger has borrowed that and i have not seen it in a while.

Your work is very inspiring.

I have worked off and on with a Musso Lipless swimmer for years unable to get things just right. I have an original that you can borrow. If you are interested shoot me a PM. I also have a bottle darter from Musso but Digger has borrowed that and i have not seen it in a while.

Your work is very inspiring.

I was wondering when you were going to chime in.:uhuh:

I made one lipless last winter and fish liked it. I just made some more but have yet to test them, need to get a fishing license and find some open water and time. Mine do not have a concave front.

Some pictures. ...

Interesting lipless. What design is that based on? I have a Lex version, feels real light and no lead in it as far as I can tell. Messed with them on and off, but have yet to get something that I am satisfied with as far as swimming action. Tried some with a tail weight, but they don't seem to swim well. Some belly weight they do ok. The face of the Lex is cupped a little and the angle is different than the one you show. I still have some work to do to get one right.

Jigman

Interesting lipless. What design is that based on? I have a Lex version, feels real light and no lead in it as far as I can tell. Messed with them on and off, but have yet to get something that I am satisfied with as far as swimming action. Tried some with a tail weight, but they don't seem to swim well. Some belly weight they do ok. The face of the Lex is cupped a little and the angle is different than the one you show. I still have some work to do to get one right.

Jigman

Yes Lex made a version of the lipless swimmer my memory sucks but it was different than the Musso.Next time i talk to Scotty and his friend i will have to ask again i remember talking about it for a while
about it at Diggers house last year.

I was wondering when you were going to chime in.:uhuh:

I just sit around and look as i can't contribute much with my skills :smash:and everyone else pretty much has things down pat here. I learn as much as i can and if i can contribute i will, but the members here are very very good and know there stuff.

The lipless swimmer at Digger's house and the musso bottle darter were both mine that were floating around. Digger still has them don't know where he is with them.

If there is one thing i have tried like hell to make and that has escaped me is the lipless swimmer, at this point i am afraid to even get it right because i don't know what i would do.

I think you know where i want to throw that lipless swimmer Stay well.

Billy if when you get it back from Digger send it over so i can take a crack at it and yes i know where you want to throw it :devil2:.

Lou,

If you are going to the NY Coalition show stop by i will have a booth. If not i will give the plug to Larry or Rob and they can give it to you. I think i have 3 left, about 8 years ago i had 15 that i got from a lucky garage sale find. I miss living in Long Island

Kindest,
Billy

Aaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Got primed and unprimed bodies of all sorts all over the place.
Started painting but nothing comes out right.
With wood and steel I can get what I want. With air and paint everything is a struggle. And then there is still the epoxy to go, :exp:.

Got up at 5 am. Just finished sealing about 25 various bodies...this stuff is a lot of work, I tell ya...got a long beard and haven't seen my family in weeks...WTF.

I'm also looking at the $2000 needlefish(my first almost completed plug) hanging in my basement with paint peeling off and wondering wtf I got myself into here.

What do you guys have going?? What goodies can we look forward to seeing??:drool:

I hope to have some in sealer by tonight. I slotted and drilled yesterday. I've put myself way behind with recent events and all.:smash:

What do you guys have going?? What goodies can we look forward to seeing??:drool:

I was hoping to attend so as to provide comic relief for the masses, but I'll be up in NH with the family. Can I send you something to display if I get the paint to stick? I think the jointed eels are going to be good.

BB I hear you. I went on a spinning spree since a duplicator found it's way in my basement. Over 150 plugs , basically 5-6 designs since November. The turning was the easy part. With the bodies sealed and primed the ardulous tasks start. This wouldn't be as time consuming in respect if it was a day job. After work it's downstairs for a couple hours. Painting is done on the bulk and I started to assemble and epoxy. Thats seems to go forever. I hope to say good by to epoxy finishes some day. I would like to dip finish 1 part waterbase. The search continues. I must say the epoxy finish applied w/ 1" fpam brushes works quick and well. I do 4 seperate batches of 6 cc's and go thru a couple brushes. Mix in new condiment containers for each. Yesterday I wired 3 dozen and coated another dozen. The Atom 5B models are assembled and ready for finish. Needles need wiring but are epoxied and the spin Atoms and the jrs along with the BM jrs need hardware. Let me say when you take on a large batch of plugs it's surprising how fast your plug hardware decreases!

What do you guys have going?? What goodies can we look forward to seeing??:drool:

Just finished putting in the eyes and grommets on the best batch I have done to date.:) Pikies and a couple of peanuts.

Got up at 5 am. Just finished sealing about 25 various bodies...this stuff is a lot of work, I tell ya...got a long beard and haven't seen my family in weeks...WTF.

I'm also looking at the $2000 needlefish(my first almost completed plug) hanging in my basement with paint peeling off and wondering wtf I got myself into here.

Everybody gets warned that comes in the door Mike .. Many think we're kidding . Nothing like building the most beautiful plug you ever seen then your final epoxy coat crawls, gets snotty and sticky. This hobby will rip your heart out . You do get past the totally ignore the family stage though ..

There are over 200 plugs in primer hanging in my sunroom above the pellet stove. This is where they hang till they dry. How many I will actually finish this year I have no clue, a mere fraction probably. Intend to do some painting today, first time this year. I am about to get a delivery of vintage plugs so I can get them all documented for future reference. I will make templates, turn maybe 2 per plug to make sure they are exact, and move on to the next one so i can return the plugs to their owner in a timely manner. This is going to take some time so it will eat into my completion ratio but you don't get to touch these classics every day so I need to take advantage of the generosity of this collector. I won't be bringing much to plugfest this year but that was my intention as I want to mingle more this year and finish want I have promised others and myself at a more leisurely pace. This is something I have learned over the last few years, keep it fun with less emphasis on quantity. What gets done is what gets done, no problem mon.:uhuh: don't worry be happy.

I'm at the same stage as prof m, but on a much smaller scale. I'm not sure what will be done by plugfest. I'm trying to get all the wood working done before I start to paint so I'm not painting in a cloud of sawdust. And everytime I'm done I keep thinking of a few more I should turn.

I'm up in the air regarding what to do for the topcoat. I used up almost all my sys 3 clearcoat last year and I'm not sure whether to stick with that or try something else.

Sawdust would help my paint jobs.

I'm also looking at the $2000 needlefish(my first almost completed plug) hanging in my basement with paint peeling off and wondering wtf I got myself into here.

Hey Mike ... maybe your going to smooth at the sanding stage . You have to leave some "tooth" .. My first plugs I did my last stage of sanding with glass . (baby food jar,seals pores like making baseball bats) .. I could peel the plug like a banana.. Not sure if this is it .. But you don't need more than 100 grit so paint can bite .. I had trouble with soft primers too .. Can you see what layer its seperating at ? Then figure out why .. Thats a very frustrating place to be .. I wouldn't paint 50 of something while at the stage .. Maybe do that cross hatch test (never did it myself).. Do your paint layers on a board ,,how ever you do it .. sealer,primer,paint,rattlecan?,waterbase?,protecti ve coat , epoxy or final coat .. Let dry .. Take a exacto knife and cut thru your finish criss,cross 1/4" squares,, Take a piece of duct tape and stick it down over that .. Now rip it off like a bandaid ,.. Where did it seperate ? There's your problem .. If nothing comes up you win .. ofcourse epoxy can can fail later in the water and negate all of the above .. At least then you know its your epoxy and where you stand ..

I am betting his adhesion problem is between the primer and the paint. I use 220 grit paper for final sanding....never a problem.

There are over 200 plugs in primer hanging in my sunroom above the pellet stove. This is where they hang till they dry. How many I will actually finish this year I have no clue, a mere fraction probably. Intend to do some painting today, first time this year. I am about to get a delivery of vintage plugs so I can get them all documented for future reference. I will make templates, turn maybe 2 per plug to make sure they are exact, and move on to the next one so i can return the plugs to their owner in a timely manner. This is going to take some time so it will eat into my completion ratio but you don't get to touch these classics every day so I need to take advantage of the generosity of this collector. I won't be bringing much to plugfest this year but that was my intention as I want to mingle more this year and finish want I have promised others and myself at a more leisurely pace. This is something I have learned over the last few years, keep it fun with less emphasis on quantity. What gets done is what gets done, no problem mon.:uhuh: don't worry be happy.

I understand you are "farming out" some of your finish work??:rotf2:

220 paper, but also wipe them down with MS and let them dry for an hour to get the sanding dust off.

I know people like to spray Zissner, but I've had much better adhesion between the sealer and createx by using brush on Zspar marine undercoat 105. You need to sand and wipe before priming and before finish coat. I start my finish coat with a "second prime" of createx opaque white.

I am betting his adhesion problem is between the primer and the paint. I use 220 grit paper for final sanding....never a problem.

I use 220 myself but ran out of it and haven't made it out to buy more ,, probably won't ... may be overkill .. I've been using 100 final .. and 100 wears out pretty fast so its actually even smoother .

220 paper, but also wipe them down with MS and let them dry for an hour to get the sanding dust off.

I know people like to spray Zissner, but I've had much better adhesion between the sealer and createx by using brush on Zspar marine undercoat 105. You need to sand and wipe before priming and before finish coat. I start my finish coat with a "second prime" of createx opaque white.

I start off with a base coat of opaque white as well Numbscull!

What do you guys have going?? What goodies can we look forward to seeing??:drool:

Finally finished everything I started last winter so I've been turning a little bit of everything. I'm realizing I have no need to make more than 2-3 of any one plug for myself, so I'm keeping my batches pretty small only making an extra or two for trading. Also starting a bunch of one/two off prototype stuff to fish over the season.

oooop s ... I'm using 120 :1poke:... no diss Larry ,, your stuff is cleaner than mine .. Funny we all took different paths ... I'm using a coat of flat white or flat black rustoleum rattle can (depending) for a base coat right over CPES ... no primer ..

Hey Mike ... maybe your going to smooth at the sanding stage . You have to leave some "tooth" .. My first plugs I did my last stage of sanding with glass . (baby food jar,seals pores like making baseball bats) .. I could peel the plug like a banana.. Not sure if this is it .. But you don't need more than 100 grit so paint can bite .. I had trouble with soft primers too .. Can you see what layer its seperating at ? Then figure out why .. Thats a very frustrating place to be .. I wouldn't paint 50 of something while at the stage .. Maybe do that cross hatch test (never did it myself).. Do your paint layers on a board ,,how ever you do it .. sealer,primer,paint,rattlecan?,waterbase?,protecti ve coat , epoxy or final coat .. Let dry .. Take a exacto knife and cut thru your finish criss,cross 1/4" squares,, Take a piece of duct tape and stick it down over that .. Now rip it off like a bandaid ,.. Where did it seperate ? There's your problem .. If nothing comes up you win .. ofcourse epoxy can can fail later in the water and negate all of the above .. At least then you know its your epoxy and where you stand ..

You know, the paint peeled right off the bottom of the plug but not the top. I did read in a recent post you shouldn't combine gloss and semi gloss paint. I did the top of the plug in gloss yellow, did the bottom in semi gloss white...stuff on the bottom half of the plug peeled off, including the primer, and the yellow is fine. Maybe combining gloss and semi gloss was the problem?

I only did one plug just in case there were issues...damage control is very important to me...:smokin:

Sawdust would help my paint jobs.

LOL:biglaugh:

I hope to have some in sealer by tonight. I slotted and drilled yesterday. I've put myself way behind with recent events and all.:smash:

Weighted, bondoed and sealed, ready for primer in a coupla days. Mission accomplished, then the scary part, paint. Then the terrifying part, clearing, make or break all the work. Still have to spin up a little black danny for BF.

Get spinning youuuuuu!:)

After work tomorrow, my sealed plugs will still be drying. If all goes well I'll have yours sealed tomorrow night, too.:hee:

You are using MS, an oil, to wipe off dust before spraying with Createx, which is water based? Any adhesion issues?

I would suggest wiping with water or denatured alcohol to keep things chemically compatible.

You are using MS, an oil, to wipe off dust before spraying with Createx, which is water based? Any adhesion issues?

I would suggest wiping with water or denatured alcohol to keep things chemically compatible.

I wait an hour or two, it evaporates away very fast. No adhesion issues.

I start off with a base coat of opaque white as well Numbscull!

Let me get this process straight....

1. Dip plugs in whatever sealer you use (helmsman, BLO, epoxy, etc.)

2. Allow ample dry time for sealer... I'm giving it 2 weeks for helmsman spar.

3. Sand down the plug body...

4. Mineral spirit wipe down and let dry for one hour at least.

5. Primer.

6. Paint.

7. Topcoat.

8. Assemble.

9. Give all your stuff away....in this sense its just like making wine...bust your ass for months and weeks, then give it all away....

10. Repeat.

Don't forget step 8A. miss swivel w.through wire, give plug to buddy, who drops fish.

Don't forget step 8A. miss swivel w.through wire, give plug to buddy, who drops fish.

You been talking to Sauerkraut? Been there , done that.

It shouldn't take 2 weeks for the sealer to dry. Varnish ought to dry in a matter of hours. If you sand it and it comes off as powder you are fine. Valoil is good to go in 24-48 hours.

You should sand/wipe between the primer and the color coat.
If you are using rattlecans, some guys spray a clear coat and scuff that then wipe before applying epoxy.

If you are using rattlecans, some guys spray a clear coat and scuff that then wipe before applying epoxy.

Great, another %$%$%$%$ing step...thanks for the heads up though...that would be step seven, I believe...

Great, another %$%$%$%$ing step...thanks for the heads up though...that would be step seven, I believe...

Don't despair yet. Ask around. Try the epoxy directly over your spray coat without roughing, maybe wipe first with alcohol. One thing I ran into was that System Three clear coat would not adhere to Krylon clear, so I don't advise trying that. On the other hand, for years I used to fish plugs coated ONLY with Krylon clear. That worked plenty well enough for me. Epoxy is not all it would seem to be. I've had and seen plenty of plugs peel epoxy long before a simpler clear coat would have worn off.

Everybody gets warned that comes in the door Mike .. Many think we're kidding . Nothing like building the most beautiful plug you ever seen then your final epoxy coat crawls, gets snotty and sticky. This hobby will rip your heart out . You do get past the totally ignore the family stage though ..

I can think of something worse.... it comes out just as you plan.. simply beautiful.. you take it fishing... you wind up... it sails to the outter bar... and SNAP!!!!!!!! it's heads for the Flemmish cap before you even get to "fish"..UNATTACHED to your line... dont ask me how i know about this feeling.... besides, alot of here already know!

Let me get this process straight....

1. Dip plugs in whatever sealer you use (helmsman, BLO, epoxy, etc.)

2. Allow ample dry time for sealer... I'm giving it 2 weeks for helmsman spar.

3. Sand down the plug body...

4. Mineral spirit wipe down and let dry for one hour at least.

5. Primer.

6. Paint.

7. Topcoat.

8. Assemble.

9. Give all your stuff away....in this sense its just like making wine...bust your ass for months and weeks, then give it all away....

10. Repeat.

How's that eel bucket looking ? Now you know why we always want extra credit for catching fish ..

Don't despair yet. Ask around. Try the epoxy directly over your spray coat without roughing, maybe wipe first with alcohol. One thing I ran into was that System Three clear coat would not adhere to Krylon clear, so I don't advise trying that. On the other hand, for years I used to fish plugs coated ONLY with Krylon clear. That worked plenty well enough for me. Epoxy is not all it would seem to be. I've had and seen plenty of plugs peel epoxy long before a simpler clear coat would have worn off.

George,

Are you saying I could omit the system three and simply spray a rattle can clear coat directly over the paint?

Rustoleum makes a clear enamel (don't use lacquer or shellac) you can build layers up pretty fast. Wait 10-15 between coats and you can build it up in one day. No sanding between coats either. And it doesn't need to be spun. Light coats- just enought to make plug look wet.

I'm going to try it with Helmsman spray urethane, which is much tougher than enamel, but it does have an amber color. Won't matter on my black, yellow or plain white plugs.

Rustoleum makes a clear enamel (don't use lacquer or shellac) you can build layers up pretty fast. Wait 10-15 between coats and you can build it up in one day. No sanding between coats either. And it doesn't need to be spun. Light coats- just enought to make plug look wet.

I'm going to try it with Helmsman spray urethane, which is much tougher than enamel, but it does have an amber color. Won't matter on my black, yellow or plain white plugs.


Thanks, seeing most of my plugs will be black, white, or yellow, the helmsman may be a good fit for me too.

U-Pol is the best I have found for going over a water based paint for a out of can top coat. You could probably use it over spray bombs too. Pretty tough stuff. You can us it as a top coat but will not last as long as epoxy but pretty darn durable. Mike, fishing freak was the discoverer of that.I used to use it a s a scratch coat over Createx before epoxy but later found that sys. 3 clear coat worked just as good over straight Createx and is what I do nowadays. I never wipe my plugs with anything other than a dry paper towel before epoxy. I install my belly grommets and my nose grommet before epoxy. You need to be very careful not to touch the plug with your hands or you may get some smegma on them and the epoxy won't adhere. I never touch plugs after painting with naked skin. I use disposable gloves or do all my handling with paper towels between my fingers and plugs. Installing grommets can be tricky without touching plug but you get the hang of it after a while. That is why some like to use a scratch coat as they like to assemble before epoxy and all the touching of plug during assembly will leave oils from skin on the paint. If you use a scratch coat you can then scotch brite the scratch coat and then wipe with alcohol the clean off scotchbrite dust and oils from handling. I prefer to eliminate that whole process, but I did it for a while. The down side to u pol is if you spray that in the house you will be sleeping in your car for a while. Got a smell that can end a marriage.

I'm going to try it with Helmsman spray urethane, which is much tougher than enamel, but it does have an amber color. Won't matter on my black, yellow or plain white plugs.

works good .. 3 coats right over eachother like 15 minutes part... Get the Gloss... wear a respirator and vent or you'll be dizzy all day ..shake good ,,, no yellow .. not a commercial finish but good enough . look back at my flaps .. its on there

11. Hang it on a nail in basement
12. go to bait shop
13. buy eels
14. put eels in bucket
15. go fishing

Ok, things are rolling now:rolleyes:

Helmsman spar dip for 30 minutes...wipe off excess...48hr dry down...light sand...mineral spirit wipe...will start priming thursday...

Trying to make sand eel needles.. also stil on an old hardware kick ... I thought this was cool ... Jerry Sylvester Fishmaster trick on arse..

nice needle eddie. Very Stezkoish with the flap

Geez, don't put your name where the fish can read it.....they'll turn it down on principle alone.

nice needle eddie. Very Stezkoish with the flap

Did he use the barrel swivel screw method too ... I was copying a fishmaster plug I seen ...

The same type method is on the Heddon vamp except they used hangers instead of barrel swivels.

Very nice plugs Tagger. Here are some pics of my Sylvester Flaptail for comparison. Your rigging is slightly different. On the original the swivel is actually screwed to the bottom of the plug into a countersunk spot.

Dammm ... I saw this method on a plug I saw .. I thought it was Fishmaster .. I couldn't of thought of it myself ?

that if half a dozen guys
stood say five feet apart
and all cast a similar plug
towards the apex of the triangle
they could imitate a school
of bait fish... by cooperating
similar to how dolphins do it.


just a thought.... MORNING ! :o)

I was positive this was a Jerry Sylvester Fishmaster ... I like the hangers too ... The real question is ?? How the heck do they get that Flap on the barrel swivel ??

I don't know Angler 229 .. I couldn't find your attachment method on Jerry Sylvester Fishmaster ..
Fishmaster (http://www.shorelinebt.com/id13.html)
Yours does have indentical hook hangers .. Maybe you have an earlier proto model ..:drool:.. Paint looks masterlure ,,but I know it's not ..

that if half a dozen guys
stood say five feet apart
and all cast a similar plug
towards the apex of the triangle
they could imitate a school
of bait fish... by cooperating
similar to how dolphins do it.


just a thought.... MORNING ! :o)

Never happen... It's already been proven that dolphins are smarter and more cooperative than us ,.., morning .. :)

I don't know Angler 229 .. I couldn't find your attachment method on Jerry Sylvester Fishmaster ..
Fishmaster (http://www.shorelinebt.com/id13.html)
Yours does have indentical hook hangers .. Maybe you have an earlier proto model ..:drool:.. Paint looks masterlure ,,but I know it's not ..

I was looking at this and I think mine is from the days before Fishmaster, just a Jerry Sylvester Flaptail. Your method is right on for the Fishmaster era, sorry for the confusion.

I wnder if you could just wrap a swivel into your tailwrap, use a tiny loop.

I wnder if you could just wrap a swivel into your tailwrap, use a tiny loop.

yea ,, you can ,, I've done it ,, I thought the Fishmaster way was cool .

Oh man, this PlugFest is gonna be something else!

I FIGURE WIRE THE SWIVEL IN THE END LOOP THEN ADD A SPLIT RING.
SPEAKING OF SWIVELS DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THE FRONT SWIVEL ON THE GTS-3 GIBBS TROLLING SWIMMERS PERFORM A NEED FROM SHORE?

Hey where's everyone? At least we don't have mountains of snow on top of us! Hopefully on my last batch of plugs to e-tex. Plugfest entries are painted and ready for coating. The flaptail version is sweet. I mentioned earlier on attaching the tail , like tagger's picture, wire ina swivel then add the flap w/ split ring. If I had a tig welder , I'd cut open a swivel insert flap then reweld cut. Those older versions look like the wire on the swivel was wrapped around itself. Are those type swivels still available? I'll be back later . Gotta getta mixing!!

2 weeks to go. I've been up since 6 epoxying. Going to church next to pray for divine intervention. About a hundred to go, 12 at a time in the spinner, Most still need paint, then there is all the rigging. Not looking too hopeful. Need to rethink this better next year. Still have a load of other stuff I wanted to build this winter.

Finally, finally primed mine yesterday. Gonna wait a coupla days before I sand and basecoat. Gonna be close but doable.
Those swivels, I wonder if they were unwound, the flap put on, then rewound? I have some of those around here somewhere from years ago if I find them, I'll give that a try.

morning, hit the early mass today because the cat woke me up, then pancakes for the kido. Doing a road trip today down the cape to Biteme's house i think, stop at M&D's on the way down. Spent yesterday making templates and turning so I can return all the great plugs that were lent to me last week. Still lots to go. I have not even started to epoxy anything yet so I won't be bringing much if any to the fest, but that was my intention this year. looking forward to wandering around more this year so I have no sense of urgency. Now when I need to get my boats ready and tackle ready and am still building then i will feel the heat. My motto should be always put off today what you can do tomorrow.

Hi guys! I woke the other morning inspired and though I was not planning on building a Flaptail for the contest......something urged me to do so! It came out pretty great I think! I can't wait to get some paint on it this week.....not sure what colors yet? Also started painting my Nike and that looks great so far! Looking forward to PlugFest very much!

Oh! Flaptail is a Lido style copy!

f-tail food for thought:

flaps on needles straight out the butt...go for it...adds flash.

it's a known fact that flaps screwed to the bottom of a plug work much better then out the butt on surface plugs.

fishmaster/ did jerrys design straight out of the butt only because it was an easy production method for them.

It's funny how easy it is turn this into work. I like the woodworking but I've been painting, wiring and epoxying this week. I dread the finishing part but I guess you can only put if off for so long...

Anyone got any good tips on wiring the fornt half of a jointed plug?
When I did the tail loops of the front section I kept scraping the paint trying to form the loop.

Rockfish9 has a nice method. Clean and neat no wraps..I still botch it...:smash:
http://stripersonline.com/surftalk/showthread.php?t=640856&highlight=wiring+jointeds
found it , it wasn't here..

After rereading and reviewing the pix, I realized why I was messing up my plugs. I was doing it completely bassackwards.:wall:

yes joe showed me that and it is a very good method.

funny I like the turning the least and like the paint, assembly, but dread the epoxy

Good morning all. I am behind on everything as always i start off like gangbusters and then get distracted and then have to hustle again to get finished. As for those barrel swivel you guys were mentioning i have seen them somewhere just can't remember.One side has the loop and the other side has a extra long wire so you can wrap it yourself.

Stripes,scales and jigs.... - SurfTalk (http://stripersonline.com/surftalk/showthread.php?t=640856&highlight=wiring+jointeds)


missed that .. thanks Joe/Fred ...

We got 30" of snow yesterday so I spent last night digging out. Was hoping we didn't loose power as I had a bunch of plugs on the spinner. Got some stuff wired but still need paint and epoxy on a bunch of stuff. Looks like it's been a winter of procrastination for everyone. I have to tell myself to stop turning stuff and finish what I have. Finished up my plastic needles I did for a swap over the other place and some small flaptails. I had some tails cut from stainless that were making them sit a little deep in the rear so I swapped them out for some colorado blades.

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac167/alphabaits/festivus007.jpg

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac167/alphabaits/festivus008.jpg

Ted those Flaptails are smokin' nice! Man I just love those!!:drool::drool::drool:

Fantastic flaptails, Ted. Your creativity is inspiring.

After rereading and reviewing the pix, I realized why I was messing up my plugs. I was doing it completely bassackwards.:wall:

I'm not sure that is backwards, Fred, that is the way everyone else used to do it. I think Rock may have a better way, however, since it eliminates the need to use an oversized grommet and lets you squeeze the wire less tightly, hence it is easier to reopen. It does help to anneal your wire before doing it. Heat just the loop you want to reopen to cherry red and let it cool slowly (don't quench it).

Anyone got any good tips on wiring the fornt half of a jointed plug?
When I did the tail loops of the front section I kept scraping the paint trying to form the loop.

:laugha:....I'm having the same issues...been to CVS three times this week for black, white, and yellow nail polish to fix scratches...:hee: I keep telling the cashier its for my toe nails...

Rockfish9 has a nice method. Clean and neat no wraps..I still botch it...:smash:
Stripes,scales and jigs.... - SurfTalk (http://stripersonline.com/surftalk/showthread.php?t=640856&highlight=wiring+jointeds)
found it , it wasn't here..

Whew, thanks for the link Fred....will be trying this technique tonight. Also, thanks to Rockfish for sharing the technique.

Flaps look great Ted ... The needles ,, How are they in the water ,, Float ? Sink ? .. need micro balloons ?

Flaps look great Ted ... The needles ,, How are they in the water ,, Float ? Sink ? .. need micro balloons ?

They sink. Not like a rock but they sink. Straight alumilte will sink without the microballoons. I don't fish needles alot and when I do I don't fish them well. I'm very impatient and thats probably why. I only use needles at the end of the year and I need them to be heavy and small where I fish. I thought I would give them another try and would have the ability to move weighting around easy in the mold. What I thought would be an easy bait to build has been one of the hardest for me. I have had good luck with weakfish on a small needle I make that we fish with light tackle. It's only 4" and weighs about 5/8 oz. Other than that I am still trying to make a productive needle.

Awesome flaptails Ted.

Finish the epoxy on the original armada and the contest plugs. I did 42 in 3 hours. Mixed 12cc total 5 times. Ran the heat gun over them and hung them to dry on an old foldable clothes hanger and flipped 3 times. Moved them in front of furnace to finish curing. I wired them first. That was an neverending task. Ran out of swivels and 200 wires are down quite a bit. You never realize how much e-tex gets used. I started with an eight oz. kit and there is a third left. I won't have to worry about it going sour!

That never happens...
Yesterday I started to paint some plugs, and my OSJL Special airbrush for 6.99 , decided to be broken. The trigger would only work if i pushed it in just right and I couldn'r figure out what the h it wanted.
Soo I rattle canned them. Not too bad, just not the finer control that I'd have liked. I used Krylon. Wide selection of colors and candies. Experimented with layering colors. Just had some fun. A whole 'nuther look this year.
One of my goals in plugbuilding this year is to get organized. My shop looks like a bomb hit it and is generally inefficient. I also want to make a duplicator. So NEXT weekend I'll be asking lotsa questions .

f-tail food for thought:

flaps on needles straight out the butt...go for it...adds flash.

it's a known fact that flaps screwed to the bottom of a plug work much better then out the butt on surface plugs.

fishmaster/ did jerrys design straight out of the butt only because it was an easy production method for them.

Good info there ,,, wish I saw that first ... I got a couple of surface,, out the butt Jerry's way ,,,whoops ?? .. Did make some needles that way too .. That's funny because JS started, just screwing the barrel swivel to the bottom of the plug ..and later went to out the butt method ..

GOD I HATE EPOXY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :fury::fury::fury::fury::fury::exp:

After reading Rockfish's thread I have a few thing to do today!:) Perfect timing since I have a few jointed to wire when the sun gets up a little higher.

Thanks for the post Joe. Wish I would have seen it sooner.:uhuh:

Actually, now that Larry isn't talking to us anymore, whatayasay we go over there, beat him up, and steal his clear coat. Fred and Eddy, you guys can take him and I'll grab the clear coat.

:rotf2:I've been made similar offers, ask about the great strawberry heist...If there's running to do, I"M your man.

Good Morning to all you plug afficienodos. I'm done with with my original plan. I have a few dozen bodies to make for friends who want to finish them as kits. I too George had some epoxy problems?? You would think after a few years of doing this epoxy finish with success everything is cool. "NOT". I've been hanging and flipping . I noticed "dry" spots on 8 of the same plugs and in the same place. Mind you human hands never touched these bodies after painting. Blew them down and finished. The bellies had unusual dry areas. I recoated the entire plug. Tried to spot in the areas but you can't get the blend right. Not that the fish give a S**t. Oh well never "assume" you got it by the "balls". The demons are out there.

Finally finished! I am so slow. This is my largest batch to date (30). They are all epoxy sealed red cedar. None have been tested but I'm optimistic. I've learned almost everything from this forum (& clumsy trial and error), so thanks to all.

Good Morning to all you plug afficienodos. I'm done with with my original plan. I have a few dozen bodies to make for friends who want to finish them as kits. I too George had some epoxy problems?? You would think after a few years of doing this epoxy finish with success everything is cool. "NOT". I've been hanging and flipping . I noticed "dry" spots on 8 of the same plugs and in the same place. Mind you human hands never touched these bodies after painting. Blew them down and finished. The bellies had unusual dry areas. I recoated the entire plug. Tried to spot in the areas but you can't get the blend right. Not that the fish give a S**t. Oh well never "assume" you got it by the "balls". The demons are out there.

If the flaws are all in the same spot you may be able to trace back and find what may have touched every plug there. a spot in a jig, a tool, you never know doesn't have to be your hands. I traced a similar problem that I had to a slick coating that was on the coathangers that I cut for plug hangers.

Finally finished! I am so slow. This is my largest batch to date (30). They are all epoxy sealed red cedar. None have been tested but I'm optimistic. I've learned almost everything from this forum (& clumsy trial and error), so thanks to all.

Very nice work!!

Is M&D open today? I'm headed that way in a few..

Good morning guys. I didn't get too much done this week. I got some darters epoxied and I did get my flaptail plug sealed & primed... Maybe do some painting on some topwater stuff today or tomorrow.

Eddie, just for kicks I tried that scale with the circle thing. I'm almost 2 hours in and its still not done. :smash:

here's some of the darters... bottom ones are 2.5 oz, top 2 are experiments an inch or so longer and an ounce or so heavier.

Good info there ,,, wish I saw that first ... I got a couple of surface,, out the butt Jerry's way ,,,whoops ?? .. Did make some needles that way too .. That's funny because JS started, just screwing the barrel swivel to the bottom of the plug ..and later went to out the butt method ..
I do beleive JS only made so many an then handed everything over to fishmaster..were they made a few changes like making the body longer and out the butt swivel for their convience.

d-post..?

GOD I HATE EPOXY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :fury::fury::fury::fury::fury::exp:

I've been pretty lucky so far this year.

I ran out of sys 3 clearcoat so I ordered some more, when I opened it I was suprised to see how clear the hardener was. The last of my old hardener was very dark yellow, the new stuffs almost clear.

I've been heating my plugs before I epoxy them (The basements cold) and it seems like that lets the epoxy go on easier. I flipped the last set of darters and I was suprised how quickly the cool air made the clear coat stop running. I bet I only needed to flip 2 or 3 times in the first 30 minutes or so.

Mistakes I made this time:
-during epoxy sealing, dropped a plug, spilling thinned epoxy all over
-countersunk belly grommets a little too deep
-dropped (more than one) on cement floor after paint but before clear coat
-scratched tail end of a few while doing tailwraps
-dropped one while 'flipping', had 6" dust bunnies on it when I picked it up
-some tail wraps look good, others look like I've never seen one before
-painted over some scales by mistake (there is a one side scaled plug)
-and of course the mandatory abundance of dust and bubbles!

here a pic of my current dust collection unit.

GOD I HATE EPOXY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :fury::fury::fury::fury::fury::exp:

LOL. I am going to do my first batch today. Got to hit church first, Our Lady of Perpetual Motion, to pray to saint George the patron saint of top coats for a little help.


Diggin the hardener will eventually get yellow. Doesn't seem to effect the stuff though

Eddie, just for kicks I tried that scale with the circle thing. I'm almost 2 hours in and its still not done. :smash:



My first thought when i saw that technique is nice but way too long in application which equals way to many instances for me to screw up. I will just admire others attempts and not bother.

Good Morning to all you plug afficienodos. I'm done with with my original plan. I have a few dozen bodies to make for friends who want to finish them as kits. I too George had some epoxy problems?? You would think after a few years of doing this epoxy finish with success everything is cool. "NOT". I've been hanging and flipping . I noticed "dry" spots on 8 of the same plugs and in the same place. Mind you human hands never touched these bodies after painting. Blew them down and finished. The bellies had unusual dry areas. I recoated the entire plug. Tried to spot in the areas but you can't get the blend right. Not that the fish give a S**t. Oh well never "assume" you got it by the "balls". The demons are out there.

Every year it always takes me a few batches before I get the hang of it, and I'm doing my first today so I am sure i will be posting how much I hate epoxy tomorrow.:uhuh: I'll do some crap plugs that I intend to fish today.

GOD I HATE EPOXY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :fury::fury::fury::fury::fury::exp:

This might sound funny, but I've found the epoxy to be the easiest part of this entire process. This is due to the fact I'm setting them up on my rod spinner and proceeding like I'm finishing a rod. I'm only doing 5-6 plugs at a time, thus it will take me 8-10 sessions to get everything done as the system three takes a while to set up. I'll get some pics up later.

It all went wrong.

Drying box too hot, maybe, caused pull away from the darter edges. New batch of epoxy, it skims in the cup and produces clumps when you brush it. That and too much dust in the shop. Some kind of silicone problem in the paint. So now I have 40 odd no-slip darters with pock marks and easy wear edges. :smash:

I want to build stuff for other people, but giving away this crap is embarrassing. It was all looking so good right up to that last step.
So it goes.

OMG you should have never said that. Run fast to St. Mary's and pray to St. George or you will be jinxed

This might sound funny, but I've found the epoxy to be the easiest part of this entire process. .

Stay away from me. You are now TOTALLY jinxed, poor soul. The epoxy gods do not tolerate insolence.

G. I had the clumping problem last year, same exact problem, skims in cup, clumps as I applied it, and talked endlessly to Mike Fixture about the problem and to system 3 about the problem. Might want to call them direct , they were a big help. I will see if I saved the e mails from them about the particular problem. I seemed to remember I solved it but can't remember what the out come was as I forget everything nowadays.

I now remember what they told me. They asked me what the stock # was on the bottles, they have a sample of every product they sell./ They then looked it up and then mixed a few batches of the stuff I had.The had the same clumping situation but told me if you let it sit longer after mixing ,before you apply it, it will eventually un clump and the end result is good. I will still see if I can locate the e mails we traded back and forth. MIke Fixture recommend a brush change which i did as I was using acid brushes and that also helped a lot too. I found some cheap priced nice disposable brushes on line that work great and won't break the bank. I know you were using a new brush this year. I don't think the clumping has anything to do with the brush though.

G. I had the clumping problem last year and talked endlessly to Mike Fixture about the problem and to system 3 about the problem. Might want to call them direct , they were a big help. I will see if I saved the e mails from them about the particular problem. I seemed to remember I solved it but can't remember what the out come was as I forget everything nowadays.

System three begins to clump a little roughly 10 minutes after mixing. The clumps go away pretty quickly and are not an issue, although it seems kind of strange when they appear. Also, the clumps can be minimized a bit if you constantly stir the stuff and don't try to go back over the work you've done by adding more. I also applied all my finish with a popsicle stick, not a brush, and this minimizes bubbles and the like.

It all went wrong.

Drying box too hot, maybe, caused pull away from the darter edges. New batch of epoxy, it skims in the cup and produces clumps when you brush it. That and too much dust in the shop. Some kind of silicone problem in the paint. So now I have 40 odd no-slip darters with pock marks and easy wear edges. :smash:

I want to build stuff for other people, but giving away this crap is embarrassing. It was all looking so good right up to that last step.
So it goes.


That sucks but don't worry about giving them out, no one will complain. Last year darters were the only thing I had problems with on the spinner, I'm not sure why but i think its because they're not symetrical and it couldn't flow evenly around the body like a round plug does. Darters are the only plugs I still flip...

yeah no going back over. Better off waiting till next day. System 3 was a great help, worth a call. IMO it is hands down the best epoxy out there for plugs but requires a little more attention. Worth the effort.

G. I find 90 to maybe a 100 degrees plenty hot enough, you may have gone too hot as you said. Try a sample mix and see if you wait a while longer that the clumps will eventually dissolve. I only do 8 plugs at a time so I can wait a while longer.

It all went wrong.

Drying box too hot, maybe, caused pull away from the darter edges. New batch of epoxy, it skims in the cup and produces clumps when you brush it.

I want to build stuff for other people, but giving away this crap is embarrassing. It was all looking so good right up to that last step.
So it goes.

George, you might want to abandon the drying box and let them just spin for a day on your rod dryer as it seems to work best for me. My basement is about 70 degrees and the sys 3 sets up good in 12 hours and is real hard in 24. I can imagine the heated dryer will keep the stuff viscous longer than you want, thus the running problems may occur.

My stuff skimmed in the cup if I let it sit there too long and didn't stir it. If you treat the stuff like a cement mixer and keep stirring, the clumps are minimized.

Keep in mind here I'm doing small batches (30cc) and only coating 5-6 plugs at a time.

Finally, I hate to sound like a know it all on the sys 3 as I'm a rank beginner plug builder, but I've finished hundreds of fishing rods and the sys 3 properties are
much like aftcote properties with regard to mixing/applying, minus the clumping.

Don't forget epoxy hates sharp edges and daters have sharp edges. I break all my corners on all my edges so the epoxy won't draw back off the edges. Might require 2 coats. I have yet to epoxy my darters yet, but all my other stuff has no real sharp edges.

It all went wrong.

Drying box too hot, maybe, caused pull away from the darter edges. New batch of epoxy, it skims in the cup and produces clumps when you brush it. That and too much dust in the shop. Some kind of silicone problem in the paint. So now I have 40 odd no-slip darters with pock marks and easy wear edges. :smash:

I want to build stuff for other people, but giving away this crap is embarrassing. It was all looking so good right up to that last step.
So it goes.

Good morning all.I am in epoxy hell also one whole batch ruined:smash: I am sick of it their has to be a better way.

I find that keeping the box, spinner set up at around 90 gives a much better finish than just room temp, and also keeps the dust and pets, and wood stove and daughter away from the plugs. Mike you know about epoxy with the rods so yo are no novice. I also find something that works with one person sometimes won't with another. Everyone has to find their comfort level and what works for them, that is why epoxy sucks so much

Hey G I luv ugly, clumpy, epoxied plugs and I bet Alan and Art do too.

Mike I will say this I never had any luck epoxying plugs in temps that low. Always had some sort of problem with them. That is just my 2 cents. Like I said nothing ever seems to be the same for any 2 individuals.

Don't forget epoxy hates sharp edges and daters have sharp edges. I break all my corners on all my edges so the epoxy won't draw back off the edges. Might require 2 coats. I have yet to epoxy my darters yet, but all my other stuff has no real sharp edges.

Two light coats versus one heavy is a good stategy for a difficult surface, no doubt. This is also how I would do a rod.

Been doing the plugs with one heavy coat. Admittedly, I do have some dust devils showing due to the fact I'm finishing in an open room versus a sealed dryer.

Mike I will say this I never had any luck epoxying plugs in temps that low. Always had some sort of problem with them. That is just my 2 cents. Like I said nothing ever seems to be the same for any 2 individuals.

My basement is actually closer to 70 degrees, not 60.... my typo....sorry.

LOL. Dust devils really only show up on dark painted plugs so I never really care. I also do one heavy coat 90% of the time. If I have a screw up I do another coat a few days later.

Have a good day guys.

LOL. Dust devils really only show up on dark painted plugs so I never really care.

Did I mention cheerios, dog hair, and the occasional nose goblin also show up at times? :laugha:

The old addage with plugs is every one is unique, right?

Just finished wiring up and adding hooks to a batch for a swap on the other site. CCBC jointed striper pikie clones with a modified version of a Gary2 Smoky Joe paint scheme.

38229

One that that I learnt with Systems 3 is that it really likes 70 degree or higher temps and low huminity. As with any epoxy, it doesn't like sharp edges as PM noted. I round edges at least a little with sandpaper, even on darters. Have used done the flip thing and the spinner thing. Both seem to work fine. Never tried the heater deal. Mix it well and evenly and keep above 70 degrees and you are fine. Its a little fussy otherwise.

Oh, and PM, its "Fixter" ;)

Jigman

Only a machinist would get this one "Mike Fixture" hahahahahaha!!!

Mistakes I made this time:
-during epoxy sealing, dropped a plug, spilling thinned epoxy all over
-countersunk belly grommets a little too deep
-dropped (more than one) on cement floor after paint but before clear coat
-scratched tail end of a few while doing tailwraps
-dropped one while 'flipping', had 6" dust bunnies on it when I picked it up
-some tail wraps look good, others look like I've never seen one before
-painted over some scales by mistake (there is a one side scaled plug)
-and of course the mandatory abundance of dust and bubbles!

WOW

I think you are being too hard on yourself the these guys

sounds like correctable mistakes
a good craftsman knows how to fix his mistakes,remember that

When You guys (especialy Backbeach) say system 3 ,, Are you talking about mirror coat ,,clear coat ,,? assume not sb112 ?

I think they speak of clear coat

Systems 3 clear coat is the one I've used.

Jigman

More than you ever want to know about epoxy coatings
Everyone's Guide to Instant Epoxy Resin Paint Coating Expertise (http://www.epoxyproducts.com/25points4u.html)

"WOW you're being hard on yourself"

You're right, thats why I leave all the blemishes (no nail polish or sharpie repairs). I want to see the mistakes again and again so as not to forget and repeat the same mistakes. you would think I have two hooves instead of hands.

Oh, and PM, its "Fixter" ;)

Jigman

LOL, that is what happens when I try to type more than 5 words:uhuh: besides i'm a machinist and fixtures are always on my mind.

BTW nice job in those plugs Andrewl

yes eddo clear coat. Mirror coat is nice and easier to apply but chips real easy,but you know that.

When You guys (especialy Backbeach) say system 3 ,, Are you talking about mirror coat ,,clear coat ,,? assume not sb112 ?

Clear coat....just to sumrise I've had good success with it so far....it makes my crappy paint jobs, mismatched grommets, and warped tail loops look much better.:hee:
I'm going out to test swim a bunch of metal lips right now and hopefully they don't come in like buzz baits....they look good though:smash: Out of about 50 or so plugs I'll have maybe 15-20 worthy of gifting out if I'm lucky.....

Mistakes I made this time:
-during epoxy sealing, dropped a plug, spilling thinned epoxy all over
-countersunk belly grommets a little too deep
-dropped (more than one) on cement floor after paint but before clear coat
-scratched tail end of a few while doing tailwraps
-dropped one while 'flipping', had 6" dust bunnies on it when I picked it up
-some tail wraps look good, others look like I've never seen one before
-painted over some scales by mistake (there is a one side scaled plug)
-and of course the mandatory abundance of dust and bubbles!


Bah.........you have a ways to go yet.

You still need to glue the cards into the lip slot (plastic works best), forget to mix in the hardner when you coat a dozen plugs, get so much epoxy in the hook hole you can't get the turning rod out, have the spinner/shaft connection come loose so it all sags instead, and set the epoxy on fire while flaming bubbles.

Then there is the split your plug while wiring bit, split your plug while forcing in the belly weight bit, drill your hook hole through the darter slope trick, drill your hook holes on the wrong side of the plug, epoxy in the wrong lip, sand the diving slope on the wrong side, drill the wrong size eye holes, drill the wrong size grommet holes, and cut the lip slot too thick a kerf.

Then for paint there is the spray your plug with air brush cleaner thing, forget to clean between colors thing (love those pink bellies), bubble off the paint with the heat gun thing, and my very favorite the GIANT eye spot blot trick.

Ugh. :confused:

My first batch that I hydroed I drilled the marked side of the plug for hooks and weights. Put the heavy side up...they did the backstroke.

"Bah.........you have a ways to go yet. "

good stuff, hilarious. Forgot to mention that I did drill (2) on the wrong side.

ok ... I wouldn't recommend "mirror coat" to anyone .. east to use but way to many popped finishes on plugs ..Looks good at first ,, later it pops right off the plug .. SUCs

Mistakes I made this time:
-during epoxy sealing, dropped a plug, spilling thinned epoxy all over
-countersunk belly grommets a little too deep
-dropped (more than one) on cement floor after paint but before clear coat
-scratched tail end of a few while doing tailwraps
-dropped one while 'flipping', had 6" dust bunnies on it when I picked it up
-some tail wraps look good, others look like I've never seen one before
-painted over some scales by mistake (there is a one side scaled plug)
-and of course the mandatory abundance of dust and bubbles!

:laugha: I've done all the above twice and have only been building for two months.

Yesterday, after rendering some "professional" advice with system 3, I returned to my basement late afternoon and realized the link holding my last two plugs on a chain of five plugs had broken, thus the last two plugs stopped spinning before they hardened....looks like the surface of the moon....:wall:

Bah.........you have a ways to go yet.

You still need to glue the cards into the lip slot (plastic works best), forget to mix in the hardner when you coat a dozen plugs, get so much epoxy in the hook hole you can't get the turning rod out, have the spinner/shaft connection come loose so it all sags instead, and set the epoxy on fire while flaming bubbles.

Then there is the split your plug while wiring bit, split your plug while forcing in the belly weight bit, drill your hook hole through the darter slope trick, drill your hook holes on the wrong side of the plug, epoxy in the wrong lip, sand the diving slope on the wrong side, drill the wrong size eye holes, drill the wrong size grommet holes, and cut the lip slot too thick a kerf.

Then for paint there is the spray your plug with air brush cleaner thing, forget to clean between colors thing (love those pink bellies), bubble off the paint with the heat gun thing, and my very favorite the GIANT eye spot blot trick.

Ugh. :confused:

WOW - Thought it was only me. Another of my favorite is distilled water freexing whil painting plugs so you can't clean the airbrush and drop the airbrush reaking the needle and other parts of it, purchase new ones wait a week get them install and before you even spray it drop it again and have your wife just laugh (that was my weekend).:smash:

:laugha: I've done all the above twice and have only been building for two months.

Yesterday, after rendering some "professional" advice with system 3, I returned to my basement late afternoon and realized the link holding my last two plugs on a chain of five plugs had broken, thus the last two plugs stopped spinning before they hardened....looks like the surface of the moon....:wall:

I have had my wife's cat attack the spinner and knock all the plugs off and have them glued to the hardwood floor as well as epoxy harden all over the cat. My friend has one of the plugs that was salvaged and we call it the cat raoe plugs, its got enough cat hair on it to be a cross between a danny and a bucktail. Yes its taken fish.

I have had my wife's cat attack the spinner and knock all the plugs off and have them glued to the hardwood floor as well as epoxy harden all over the cat. My friend has one of the plugs that was salvaged and we call it the cat raoe plugs, its got enough cat hair on it to be a cross between a danny and a bucktail. Yes its taken fish.

Fish that plug when the bluefish are around i bet it has nine lives.:jump1:

I have had my wife's cat attack the spinner and knock all the plugs off and have them glued to the hardwood floor as well as epoxy harden all over the cat. My friend has one of the plugs that was salvaged and we call it the cat raoe plugs, its got enough cat hair on it to be a cross between a danny and a bucktail. Yes its taken fish.

Lightning has struck twice at the Back Beach residence....my linkage broke again last night creating a 3 for 5 outing once again.:wall:

In baseball this would be a great night at the plate, but this is plugbuilding and constitutes another strikeout....

In honor of my half dozen or so epoxy mishaps, I'm introducing a new line of fishing plugs which will be called the "Warthog" series.....pics to follow.

Lightning has struck twice at the Back Beach residence....my linkage broke again last night creating a 3 for 5 outing once again.:wall:

In baseball this would be a great night at the plate, but this is plugbuilding and constitutes another strikeout....

In honor of my half dozen or so epoxy mishaps, I'm introducing a new line of fishing plugs which will be called the "Warthog" series.....pics to follow.

Back beach, if you are having trouble spinning the plugs maybe try with the flipping method.

Lightning has struck twice at the Back Beach residence....my linkage broke again last night creating a 3 for 5 outing once again.:wall:

In baseball this would be a great night at the plate, but this is plugbuilding and constitutes another strikeout....

In honor of my half dozen or so epoxy mishaps, I'm introducing a new line of fishing plugs which will be called the "Warthog" series.....pics to follow.

Forget the epoxy unless you are selling your plugs and need to attract fishermen. 2 coats of clear coat work fine and the plugs hold up just as well. Ask Scottie. he just clear coats and he does 30K plugs a year.

Forget the epoxy unless you are selling your plugs and need to attract fishermen. 2 coats of clear coat work fine and the plugs hold up just as well. Ask Scottie. he just clear coats and he does 30K plugs a year.

Yep, the epoxy is just one more thing to piss off and confuse the masses, no doubt... and I'm one of them.

Great time yesterday and very inspiring! Amazing work there for sure! Can't think of a better way to spend the day! It went by so fast! George I was mesmerized by your plugs......nicest darters I have ever seen!:uhuh:

Great time yesterday and very inspiring! Amazing work there for sure! Can't think of a better way to spend the day! It went by so fast! George I was mesmerized by your plugs......nicest darters I have ever seen!:uhuh:


That's because you haven't seen Paul's yet. Once he finishes one they'll have to retire the bar. I think he is having too much fun making the jigs.

Ya you may be right George but we know yours catch fish, it will be a while before any of Paul's get attached to a fishing line and cast into fishy waters ;)

Now that the fest is over, I'll have to get together with you:soon: I want to see your mad scientist laboratory.:uhuh:

Hey guys .. Plugfest really does it for me .. All the other shows pale in comparison .. I always leave there dizzy ..

Still waiting for my invitation to play in Paul's sandbox! He did not bring any of his stuff yesterday!:smash:

Hey guys .. Plugfest really does it for me .. All the other shows pale in comparison .. I always leave there dizzy ..

Eddy, I think that just comes from standing next to Lu too long.

come down here today Larry and we'll tagteam him after church :smash::uhuh:

I think that I have a plug hangover. So much information in such a short time.....I have to thank and bless you all for that day, the plugs, and information. A load of sticking points in my technique were cleared up and corrected yesterday.Pesky litttle things. Thankyou ! And the work..artists in the true sense.

Eddy, I think that just comes from standing next to Lu too long.

Yea ... We split up during the calling of the raffle .. We both thought the other was bad luck at the same time ..

Great time. picked up an epoxy tip from Mike. Warm up in micro b/4 mixing and submercing brush to the bottom of epoxy to remove air bubbles form brush. I counld'nt believe what I saw the amount of bubbles coming out of the brush. Now I see where the majority of bubbles came from. All the while I thought the majority of small bumps were dust! Did some epoxy this morning . Microwaved 6 cc's 10 seconds. Do not mix until you microwave it. Mixed for 3 minutes. Flowed like water. I say 15 minutes of pot life time. I had some left. reheat lightly w/heat gun. finished no problem.

Great time. picked up an epoxy tip from Mike. Warm up in micro b/4 mixing and submercing brush to the bottom of epoxy to remove air bubbles form brush. I counld'nt believe what I saw the amount of bubbles coming out of the brush. Now I see where the majority of bubbles came from. All the while I thought the majority of small bumps were dust! Did some epoxy this morning . Microwaved 6 cc's 10 seconds. Do not mix until you microwave it. Mixed for 3 minutes. Flowed like water. I say 15 minutes of pot life time. I had some left. reheat lightly w/heat gun. finished no problem.


Watch out heating mixed epoxy. It gives off heat as the two parts react and adding heat makes this reaction much faster and hotter. I tried micro-waving some once and it almost started a fire in the kitchen.

Watch out heating mixed epoxy. It gives off heat as the two parts react and adding heat makes this reaction much faster and hotter. I tried micro-waving some once and it almost started a fire in the kitchen.

And divorce proceedings no doubt???!:rotf2:

maybe bubbles are a problem with e tex but i mix the sys. 3 clear coat epoxy like a crazy fool and get nutin but bubbles. They dissipate after you apply the stuff and hardly ever have a problem with any in the final product. Maybe a quick torch passing once in a while but I gave up worrying about them a few years ago as I mixed the stuff as it didn't seem to be a problem in the final product. Now don't get me wrong I have screwed up many other aspects of the epoxy but bubbles in the mix don't require a prayer to St. George for me.

With E-tex bubbles are no problem if you wave the torch. Poof gone.

The e-tex heated flows like water. I mix the 2 parts together after they are heated. I previously used heat guns and torches and still had minute bumps. Thought it was dust. Used the heated mix this morning with good results. I be surveying the finish tommorrow b/4 work.

Hello? (Echo....echo.....echo) Is anyone here? (Echo.....echo.....echo)

I think everyone must have been out too late last night...

yup late but no residual effects. I've gotten smarter. I am sure there are a few sleeping in this morning.

Actually painted a few plugs yesterday and may do another few today. This is time of the year I start getting serious about finishing stuff.

I finished painting the last of the stuff I turned for this year. I had lots of ideas from plugfest that I wanted to try.

Here's a darter ala angler229, and the other is similar to one of the Greek's. I put a little pearlex in the epoxy of the purplish one, trying to mimic something I think goo goo man did...

And some topwater, Made some new mack stencils after looking at mikecc's, took 3 or 4 tries but I finally got it right. the pink pogie one is a copy of something Vic's friend Scottie had painted in a swap a few years ago.

I had an interesting 'new' problem this week. I started using wire from a new box of tig wire, and when I was wiring plugs a was getting black smudges on em. I looked at my hands and they were dirty even though I washed them before I started. Ends up each & every wire is dirty. I ended up taking a rag with acetone on it and when I wrap it around the wire and pull the wire thru it and I get a nice black streak from every wire...

all look great. Mack is my favorite paint scheme.

all look great, i'm doin my first round of surface poppers now, like those paint jobs....gotta go pull plugs outa val-oil....

I just finished my faux-birthday breakfast and getting ready to shake a knot loose in my shop. Put up some new lights yesterday, nice to see some detail for a change, gonna add more. Gonna build some storage, friggin place is an obstacle course now, crap every where. And a couple of new benches.

Just e-tex a few plugs. Extras I made Atom Jrs with the A-54 atom lip from M&D's. That lip is half the weight of the Salty jr. 4 grams compared to 8 grams. The A-54 lip is the same thickness as the original. Lightens up the front and I can use a 3/0 front hook and assure the lure on calm water to stay up. They also swam great w/ Salty's lip. Slightly nose down and shallow subsurface w/ 3/0.
With 2/0, swam along the top like the old plastic version with the classic wobble and roll.

speakin' of shops and building, put together a new dust collection box that goes around my lathe, finished it with a "custom" collection port (mounted an old shredder paper collector), hole-sawed a place for my vacuum hose to come up thru table into box . works like a champ. can't afford a real dust collection system and this is better than nothing!

morning maestro....

my boss.....errr wife is calling! off to the races! enjoy the day all!

It has been a challenge (to say the least), but I think I'm almost there. Both sizes.

a plug is born....looks like a surface popper, but i guess its a bottle plug in the making (see a bottle plug in the last shot)...also got some nice ideas from the pictures! (sanding jig)

Diggin Jiggin very nice stuff. That is a funny pattern to paint as it looks like you're painting a cow till you put the scales on it. One of those don't be afraid to make it look stupid first to make it look good later deals.

It has been a challenge (to say the least), but I think I'm almost there. Both sizes.


How slow will they swim?
I can get lipless swimmers to swim but not at a crawl, roughly at darter speed.

How slow will they swim?
I can get lipless swimmers to swim but not at a crawl, roughly at darter speed.

Don't know yet, Pete. The ones I've tried on my own in the past have sucked. Now, however, Billy lent me an original medium Musso (which I have not swum). There are a lot of subtleties to it, and copying it has been a learning experience, but I think I've got it and will be able to test prototypes pretty soon.

George... you really need to change your handle to Xerox. no one can repro a plug like you. (I mean that in a VERY good way)

George... you really need to change your handle to Xerox. no one can repro a plug like you.

No, that would be Paul (and Capesams). I'm shooting for close enough and in fishable numbers.

George those lipless are shaping up nice .
I tried the small 1 oz. .. The line tie was just about dead center [good] the bottom angle and top angle were around 45 & 70 [ I don't have notes here ]. I was able to cut these with the squares on. the small lipless has concavities in bottom and top . Very small subtle hollows.
I just borrowed a med 2 oz. size different angles less concave ,the top was pretty much straight.
The line tie looked low[below center}?
I'm interested to know how you are able to replicate consistanly - jigs used

Cloned from BM Schoolie, but will use a Lefty 2-Midslot lip since the one BM uses is a proprietary hybrid pikie lip.

Swam one with the L2 lip that I bent up a bit and got a pleasant surprise. Instead of swimming on or just below the surface as the BM did, these went down 4+ feet in a moderate current and had a nice wide wiggle witht the line tie level. With the tie bent down parallel to the lip it swam down about 12" with the same action.

After these cure for another couple days I'll wire up.

Thanks to all who have inspired, assisted and tolerated,
Jon

I learned this when building rods-

mix your epoxy on a sheet of glass and then heat if from below to decrease the viscosity and let the air bubbles escape. Hardened epoxy easily scrapes off with a razor blade and the glass can be used over and over.

Bonus- because the epoxy is spread out the heat released by the exothermic reaction between the resin and the hardener will dissipate and give you a longer pot life than if it were in a cup.

Look nice Jon- like the slim profile. Like me.

[QUOTE=ProfessorM;751074]yup late but no residual effects. I've gotten smarter. I am sure there are a few sleeping in this morning.
Hey Paul, great finally meeting the legend in person.

Looking good, Woody.

Very nice Jon. Where did you get those eyes?? Not Betty Davis eyes!!

:hidin:

Those are the 3D doll type eyes that Mike sells at CCT. The same as BM uses in their eyed plugs.

I like the clear ones- you can paint the backs any color, or just color the inside of the eye hole and let it show through the clear. That's what I did on these - Gold Pentel paint pen and a bit of Zap a Gap to hold the eyes in.

Ted The Greek uses these alot in his great looking plugs.:uhuh:

[QUOTE=ProfessorM;751074]yup late but no residual effects. I've gotten smarter. I am sure there are a few sleeping in this morning.
Hey Paul, great finally meeting the legend in person.


LOL, Legend. :biglaugh:

Nice meeting you also.

Heading over to Slips today to pour some belly weights and to try out the new mold I finished on Friday. It only took me about a year to finish after taking another year to finally agree to do it and Bruce was very patient. It is a tail wgt. mold similar to the one Stan Kuzia made many years ago. It will allow a decent amount of weight to be exposed at the tail to enable the plug to fly longer and straighter. Your pencil will taper down to blend into the end part and you will tie your wire right up against the lead. Its a canal thing.:uhuh:

That's pretty cool, let's the lead drag the wood through the air. They don't call them sharpies for nothing.

yup Stan was as sharp as any of them.

soooo....when can I borrow it?...did u know lead spins very nicely on the lathe....let the shavings fall.no dust too.

when ever you want barring any set backs today. Several sizes so i am sure you will find one that will fit your needs.

when did u give the nickname of' "set back" to your wife??

Got Lead?

hot lead, ya

thanks Paul, outstanding job on the mold:uhuh:

Awesome mold, can I get in line for borrowies?

Where's the line here .. PNG the end ? ....

no line-no borrowies
the mold is trademarked PM
2 years in development and waiting and building makes it very very valuable, cost may have exceeded into the thousands. therefore after a period of 2 years time from today, the line starting with grapenuts, all borrowers must leave 1st born as a deposit in good faith, and return promptly with plenty of product or trade equivalent value pluggage.

sorry , thems the rules guys

no problem making spares.....got about 1500lbs o clean lead give or take a few hundred lbs....after making a few hundred 4oz. canal jigs.

no problem making spares.....got about 1500lbs o clean lead give or take a few hundred lbs....after making a few hundred 4oz. canal jigs.

Hey !!!! ,, The pencil sharpener worked great ,,.:uhuh:

LOL. pretty down and dirty mold, nutin fancy , but it works. Yes any of you nit wits can borrow it. That is why I made it. You'll just have to pour me a few. That way I won't have to pour any myself.

LOL. pretty down and dirty mold, nutin fancy , but it works. Yes any of you nit wits can borrow it. That is why I made it. You'll just have to pour me a few. That way I won't have to pour any myself.

when it makes it to Ct. (HA!) let me know, awesome work on that!

LOL. pretty down and dirty mold, nutin fancy , but it works. Yes any of you nit wits can borrow it. That is why I made it. You'll just have to pour me a few. That way I won't have to pour any myself.


so how many lbs do u require for ransom? b happy to load u up.

That way I won't have to pour any myself.

Very cunning, I like the way you think

So shall we do this thread again next winter??? Fish coming soon!:uhuh:

Is this still the place ? ... common spring .. spring ahead .. we're getting there .. Yes !!!! to next year ..

This has been like advanced plug school for me. I would like to go next winter, too.:uhuh:It's been awesome!

Turned, drilled, slotted and sealed some slopehead dannys and a cowboy proto yesterday.
They're gonna be painted in a mackerel pattern that I've come up with using a lace mask. I'll post when done.

Morning all :smash: Fighting a cold but a friend just stoped over and dropped two old the rarest mussos that i know of :drool::drool: George and Paul you are going to love these.

Absoluetely do it next year. Many responses from the start up to Plugfest. Doing my last "want list" 3oz wadd needles. Guys keep in touch and have a good fishing season.

Morning all :smash: Fighting a cold but a friend just stoped over and dropped two old the rarest mussos that i know of :drool::drool: George and Paul you are going to love these.


What a tease.......

I will try to take a pic later when i go into the shop.

Late as usual. Sent you my addy Luis. I forgot to set clock ahead last nite and walked into church this morning only to have mass end 1 minute later. No wonder people were looking at my family stranger than usual.:smash:
Found a gallon of helmsman spar yesterday that wasn't VOC compliant, dust covered on shelf. Had lots of other places I called say no. Will be looking this upcoming week. You can get the quarts that way but the gal.'s are all compliant. I guess I could just buy 4 quarts but it won't be cheap that way. Epoxy sealed a bunch of pine plugs last nite. Hard as a rock this morning. I will probably start using this method more and more. Luckly CS gave me a bunch of clear coat last year so I am using it for that as it is kind of old but perfect for sealing.
Cheerio.

Here is one of my schoolie-ish clones I call The Muskrat (the ones rigged with the Lefty 2 that dive deep I call The Weasel). With a Lefty1 bent down and the lip bent down it will swim no deeper than 3-4" in calm water. It pushes a wake much like a tuna does when swimming just under the surface, and at super slow speed it swims 'in' the surface, as opposed to on top of it or below it as a danny does. I have high hopes for it.

Nice Jon. Is that the same as the white one I have?

Only difference is yours has the Lefty 2 that will make it dive.

FISH IT!

Outstanding . I have high hopes at a certain dam and pipe.